Hermès International Société en commandite par actions (RMS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] Good morning to you all. I'm very pleased to be here with you this morning. I'm sorry that we cannot all be together in this room this morning. First and foremost, I would like to thank all group employees who've demonstrated a great deal of courage, solidarity and agility as well as creativity throughout 2020. I'm especially thinking of everyone who was and continues sometimes to be impacted by the disease. Such a large-scale crisis reminds us of the importance to focus on who we are and what we're able to control such as our business areas. It's also an opportunity to make choices and talk about decisions made in the past. I can say that this global crisis shows the relevance of our business model, placing human beings at the very center of it all and creation at the center. We're focusing on everybody's intelligence and sensitivity. We're also focusing on commitment and responsibility. This all was very important in managing the crisis. With an eye on this health situation, we wanted to be sure that Hermès acted as a responsible player, showing solidarity. Showing responsibility, first of all, for protecting all of its employees by enacting all necessary measures, also through our local management. We maintain jobs and base wages worldwide without using government subsidy. Furthermore, a onetime bonus will be given to group employees in 2021 to thank them for their commitment. Next, we've shown our solidarity to local areas. Hermès donated EUR 20 million to the Paris hospitals, the AP-HP. We would thank our Le Vaudreuil teams who produced 45,000 liters of hand sanitizer. We also donated 145,000 PPEs to health providers. I would thank actions in all of our local subsidiaries in the various countries where we're active that have organized over 80 initiatives to date. I'd also talk about commitments to our partners and suppliers, assisting them to adapt by placing orders and extending terms of payment. Hermès has used the solidity and the agility of its artisans business model. We've shown several major trends, positive dynamics in Asian markets. We see increased digitization. We've also seen the importance of CSR during this period. Worldwide, our local customers have been highly loyal, offsetting reductions in tourist flows. Hermès has been able to contend with the challenges, thanks to the quality of its products, creativity and innovation, making it possible to constantly reinvent who we are. Creation is the best response to crisis with unique objects that are sustainable, long lasting and highly sought after. Integrated production, remember, over 60% of our group is within France. 80% of our items are produced in France. We have a mastery and excellence of our know-how, practicing a craft versus just carrying out a task. Our distribution network is exclusive omni-channel, which has demonstrated just how effective it has been during the crisis. We've been able to adapt our tools to quick changes in demand, thereby maintaining a special relationship with our customers. Economic independence and strict financial management have enabled us not only to maintain wages without government subsidy but also to continue slated operating investments. Now let's talk about business activity. In spite of the health crisis, group activity was resilient with very strong momentum in sales in Q4, up 16%; revenue reaching EUR 6.4 billion in 2020, which means a drop limited to 6% at constant exchange rates. Group stores showed strong resistance, sales only down 2% for the year after Q4, which saw growth of more than 21%. First of all, we thank our customers worldwide who've shown their appreciation of this company. We also thank our teams for their involvement in the stores. Now firstly, let's talk about France, minus 29%. And Europe, excluding France, minus 20%, were impacted by the closure of some of the stores, reduction in tourism flows, to some degree, offset by local customers. Japan, next, minus 4%, displays especially strong recovery since June, thanks to loyalty of local customers. Asia, excluding Japan, continues its strong growth, driven by an excellent Q4, up 47%, inter alia, thanks to good momentum from China, Korea as well as Thailand. The new digital platform was rolled out in Hong Kong, Macau and Korea in the first half. The Americas, minus 21%, recovering gradually in the second half, growing slightly in Q4. The Wynn store in Las Vegas was enlarged and refurbished in October, Short Hills in New Jersey in November. The geography changes versus last year, reflecting strong growth in Asia as well as greater impact of store closures in Europe and America, is a good geographical balance, limiting any excess exposure to one given country. Let's talk about revenue by sector now. In 2020, business in stores resisted well, and wholesales dropped 32%, impacted inter alia by travel retail. Leather Goods and Saddlery, minus 5%, resumed growth in the second half with an acceleration of growth in Q4, up 18%, reflecting sustained demand, buoyant demand and gradual recovery deliveries. Development projects continue, as we've seen. Hermès is reasserting its strong territorial footprint in France. Ready-to-wear and Accessories, minus 9%, speeded up growth in Q4, up 12%. The Spring-Summer 2021 women's Ready-to-Wear show was very well received after the men's collection beginning of July. Silk and Textiles and Fragrances saw the impact of a drop in tourism. After a very successful launch of the first lipstick collection beginning February, the beauty sector continues to perform well. Watches, plus 22%, confirms its growth, excellent Q4, up 28%. Lastly, other Hermès sectors, plus 24%, including Jewelry, [ au de vivre ] and Tableware strongly growing. Sectorial distribution remains fairly stable versus 2019. We only see a slight drop in the more exposed sectors, most exposed to travel retail, such as Silk and Textiles and Perfumes. There's a good balance here. Leather Goods and Saddlery continues to represent half of business activity. 2020 results were very strong, operating income reaching EUR 2.1 billion, thanks to a very good second half; operating profitability reaching 32.4% of sales; consolidated net profit group share EUR 1.4 billion decline limited to 9%; restated net cash, almost EUR 5 billion. Eric du Halgouët will come back to the points. In spite of the difficulties, we've shown the uniqueness of our style with collections that are rich and innovative. I thank all of the teams of the artistic management and the various métiers. I'd mention the successful launch of Beauty, adding to the leather goods collection with the Chaîne d’ancre, Birkin Cargo and the Sac à Malice bags. The beautiful welcome of the women's ready-to-wear and women -- and men's ready-to-wear, the successful launch of the haute joaillerie collection, Lignes sensibles and the new table service, Passifolia, and then the launch of Apple Watch Series 6. We've mentioned this already. There's confident in the future and in our integrated local artisanal production model that we pursue operational investments in our production capacity in France. We have laid the first stone of the Louviers leather working platform, followed by Guyenne, Gironde, Montereau and Seine-et Marne with inaugurations slated this year. A new production site is planned in Ardennes in 2023, and a new leather workshop is planned for in the Auvergne by 2025. We've pursued extension of the Pierre-Bénite site in the textile hub in Lyon. And finally, we've acquired the J3L in metal trimmings, the supplier. So COVID-19 has strengthened the importance of e-commerce, which was already at the heart of our omni-channel strategy. We've made an effort for the last 5 years by choosing to strengthen and ramp up our e-commerce platform all over the world. In Asia, I remind you of the creation of the site in China in 2018, the rollout in Korea and Hong Kong in the first semester. What is more, 2020 also saw the opening of the first e-commerce website in the Middle East. With the acceleration of traffic, conversion rate and 75% of new customers, success of our platform is confirmed. Hermès has pursued the strengthening of its physical retail network. Operational investments have been pursued in the stores, making it possible for our impactful presence of our collections in the city centers closer to our local customers. Indeed, we have pursued the extension of our network in Osaka, Moscow and Madrid this year. Let us now move on to the communication of Hermès. Here, again, we had to adapt and invent new formats in order to maintain our presence, remain a safe haven and optimistic in a difficult context while sustaining our renewed link with our customers. The teams have shown agility, creativity in the development of new strategies of communication to respond to an environment which was permanently changing and evolving. I'm thinking of the totally new format of the men's Ready-to-Wear show designed by Cyril Teste. We've been able to accompany the rising importance of the influence of digital, but we've maintained the paid investment. Hermès wishes to leave a positive impact on the world. During this very particular year, we've reasserted the importance of our values through our actions and our commitments. First of all, by supporting employment. Hermès is, today, 16,600 employees in the world, amongst which 10,000 in France. That is to say a progression of 1,200 persons. We wish to continue to role -- play our role of a corporate good citizen where we operate, focused in the long term through actions which are economic, social, educational, but also cultural either directly or through our corporate foundation. In terms of education, our in-house leather school has 80 trainers and collaborates with 10 leather training schools all over France. We are particularly proud of start of the project called Center of Training for Hermès Apprentices in partnership with the National Education to convey leather know-how, learning a craft, tenant expertise and valorized by state diploma. Manufacto of the Hermès Corporate Foundation has grown 1,400 students, 55 schools. This was in 2020. 2020, also, we pursued gender equality with an index higher to 90%. Maintain a diversity of persons and talent is the foundation of the richness and creativity of Hermès. Hermès is ranked fifth in the ranking of diversity leader published by the British daily Financial Times. And it's first in its sector, Hermès as the head in its ranking by Capital Magazine amongst the 500 best employers in France, justified through the experience of the employees and the perception of the group. We want to keep this commitment and continue to recruit people with disabilities. We are considering a strong compensation policy without government subsidies. Profit sharing has been maintained at high level. With 51 production sites in 9 regions of France, we are a committed local player with the creation of jobs, we've said and the development of training centers. These dynamic activity hubs contribute to the vitality of territories and their activity -- regions of activities. We pursue also the securing of our suppliers with the aim of preserving unique know-how. We are committed with our suppliers and partners in long-term approach in order to make the approaches around climate and biodiversity to progress and our approach is we collaborate with WWF and University of Cambridge. The growth model of Hermès, above all, is inspired by the values of craftsmanship, naturally close to the challenges of preservation of natural ecosystems. Hermès has always offered repair services for its objects. More than 120,000 repairs and after sales have been carried out. Producing objects that you do not throw is producing with little in optimizing raw material. Vertical integration of our model allows us to have a better control over the production process, the design and the delivery of products. In this framework, within each of our métiers, we are looking at how to go further in the recycling of our materials, for example, in packaging and with petit h. We are also pursuing our strategy of donations to associations. We produce artisanally the objects of high quality thought to last with the supply, which is responsible, transparent and respectful of biodiversity. This goes through the reaffirmation of the requirements in terms of supplies that are responsible vis-à-vis all our suppliers to the sharing of good practices and accompanying of our partners as well as a strict audit policy. In terms of carbon strategy, 2020 was an important year. Hermès has fixed as an objective reduction of emissions by 50% by 2030 in absolute value and the reduction by 50% of the intensity in scope 3. In a structural way, the group emits -- a very low emitter of CO2 and, on top of that, Hermès offsets 100% of its emissions related to its own activities. In 2020, we have been committed with the Fund Carbon Livelihoods project with positive impact on climate change with reforestation as a major project. In 2020, we've strengthened our commitments with regard to biodiversity. Accompanied by WWF and CDC Climat, we are doing a mapping of the impact of the Global Biodiversity Score. Our commitments are materialized also through our participation in collective initiatives with enhanced transparency just a commitment to TCFD. These efforts are reflected in the progression of several of extra financial rating, Sustainalytics at the CDP agency. Henceforth, 10% of the variable compensation of managers is subjected to meeting CSR criteria. We are convinced of the importance of collective intelligence of the sharing good practices and a common effort to face up to the key challenges for our society and our planet. I'd now like to give the floor to Eric du Halgouët, CFO, who will present the annual results. Thank you, Eric.

[Interpreted] Good morning, everyone. Hermès achieved strong results in 2020, a year that saw a health and economic crisis. This strength is reflected both in our results as well as in our cash flow generation in spite of strong disturbances in production entities in France as well as distribution subsidiaries worldwide. Recurring operating profitability, which was 21% in the first half, improved significantly in the second half, thanks to recovery in sales, reaching 31% for the full year. Gross margin loses 0.6 points. This slight decline is due to an under-absorption of production cost in the first half in spite of a positive impact of foreign exchange hedges. Remember, price increases in 2020 remained very limited, 1% group-wide. Communication spending reaching EUR 279 million. This is 4.4% of sales versus 5.2% in 2019. Yes, many events were canceled such as the Saut Hermès event in Paris or postponed like the launch of a new men's fragrance. Overheads, excluding fixed rental payments and guaranteed minimums, remained almost stable between 2019 and 2010, reaching EUR 1.4 billion. The group maintained jobs and base wages for employees worldwide. Other income and expenses reaching EUR 696 million, including, to the tune of EUR 470 million, amortizations, half of which have to do with fixed and intangible assets, the other half being use rights that are amortized over the duration of leases. The increase versus 2019 is a reflection of ongoing investment projects in the distribution network in digital and information systems. Recurring operating income, almost EUR 2 billion, representing 31% of sales versus 34% in 2019. After taking into account the nonrecurring profit of EUR 91 million due to the deconsolidation of Shang Xia, recurring result is EUR 2.073 billion, which is 32% -- 32.4% of sales. Financial income and expenses, an expense of EUR 86 million, mainly 3 components here: interest on lease debt, EUR 30 million; expenses having to do with ForEx hedges such as option premiums and swaps, currency swaps; lastly, income from cash investments. Corporate tax, 30.9%, down 2.2 points versus 2019, mainly due to the nontaxation of the proceeds from deconsolidation of Shang Xia, minus 1.5 points, as well as a favorable geography mix. After taking into account results of affiliates and minority interest, net income, EUR 1.385 billion versus EUR 1.528 billion in 2019, which is a drop limited to 9%. Net profitability in 2020, which is 21.7% of sales, slightly below the level of last year. Annual average growth rate of net income over 10 years, 12.6%. The group continued its operating investments reaching EUR 448 million in 2020 versus EUR 478 million in 2019. Investments are up, if we exclude the acquisition of the premises of the Sydney store in 2019. EUR 195 million were spent on the distribution network. Specifically, I had mentioned the refurbishment and extension projects for the following stores: Sèvres in Paris, Harbour City in Hong Kong, Beijing China World in China, Tokyo Marunouchi in Japan and the Wynn Plaza in Las Vegas in the United States. EUR 124 million were spent on production investments, mainly in leather production and also in silk and textiles. Lastly, EUR 129 million was spent in real estate as well as IT and digital projects. inter alia, I'd mentioned the continued rollout of the digital platform in Asia. Operating investments should continue apace in 2021. In spite of the health and economic crisis, cash flow reaches almost EUR 2 billion, which is a level similar to the level reached in 2019. Change in working capital requirements, the result is mainly due to a replenishment of inventory in the distribution network, which is especially low at the end of 2019. After taking into account operating investments we alluded to previously, available cash flow adjusted reaching almost EUR 1 billion for the full year. Financial investments were mainly spent on continuing our vertical integration projects. Among others, I'd mentioned the acquisition of our long-standing supplier, J3L, we used to be a minority stakeholder of theirs. After paying EUR 490 million in dividend, which is EUR 4.55 per share, the exact same amount as that paid in 2019. And taking into account EUR 122 million in share buybacks, restated group cash flow up EUR 342 million, reaching over EUR 4.9 billion. The group, all the while, maintained its strategic investments, protected its employees and created more than 700 jobs, strengthened further its financial standing, enabling us to calmly move on to 2021. The dividend, which will be up for approval by the next AGM, EUR 4.45 per share, which is the same amount as the dividend paid in 2020.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Eric. I now come to the outlook of the group unchanged. For 2021, the impact of the epidemic of COVID-19 remain difficult to assess as a result of the changes and evolutions that are pursued in the different geographical zones. In the medium-term, despite the economic, geopolitical and monetary uncertainties in the world, the group confirms an ambitious progression of its revenue at constant rates. Thanks to its unique corporate model, Hermès pursued a strategy of development in the long-term with a model which is artisanal, sustainable growth and responsible founded on creativity and the control of transmission of know-how and [ recommit ] of quality. Each of the team defined by Pierre-Alexis Dumas, the Artistic Director of Hermès, is the guiding thread in our creation and communication. 2021 will be placed under the sign of the Odyssey. It is, therefore, a question for us to continue our travel with trust, confronting the uncertainties of the world but without losing our identity. We are confident in the solidity of our model, agile and dynamic in the face of a reality which is changing. We are pursuing our strategic investments in new production capacities in France with the creation of new jobs and a special emphasis on training and transmission. We continue in pursuing omni-channel strategy in order to remain in sync with the new uses and constant evolution with opening extension of several stores such as the rue de Sèvres in Paris, Omotesando in Japan, Beijing, China and Detroit in the U.S.A. and the pursual of the rolling out of the e-commerce platform. The strategic investments are planned also in R&D for new, exceptional raw materials to enrich our offer with the responsibility -- the approach of responsibility. This year, faithful to the métier of creator, we will be unveiling new collections with the launch of H24, our new men's fragrance signed by Christine Nagel. We will be presenting H08, men's watch. Finally, it is a pleasure for us to receive Steve Guerdat #1 worldwide for the show jumping partner, horse rider. The profound changes in this uncertain world, we remain confident. I would like to thank each of the employees of Hermès who work every day to make this house grow. We are now available to answer to your questions.

[Interpreted] Morgan Stanley. 2 questions for me. I'll be disciplined. The first one is on the clienteling much evolved in the luxury sector. Can you tell us what you have for 2020 and how you've been able to make the most of the wish list that you have with the customers? First question. Second question for Eric. In the second half of 2020, the operational margin was 37%, which is the highest level in the history of the group, to my knowledge, 400 basis points. Why, in 2021, the operational margin for the whole year would not be at least equal to the one that you had obtained in 2019, which was 34%?

[Interpreted] I'll start with the most difficult question, probably clienteling. Well, we are not a house of marketing, as I often say. And in fact, I'm not even sure I -- I don't even understand the concept of clienteling. What have we done in the course of the year? Well, first of all, we opened, when we could, with pleasure our stores to the customers who came in large numbers to come in and enjoy their experience in the stores, and we had a very good activity in France around Christmas and holiday period. And then in a more complex situation with health-related restrictions, we received our customers upon their request, either by telephone, with events. The success of this year were achieved, I would say, through the normal framework of our operations. We adapted. We were agile. We tried to find new ways of doing. But there was no changes in our relations with our clientele, whatever be the situation. And I think this loyalty on both sides is part of the success and the attachment that we mutually have with our customers.

[Interpreted] To talk to you about margin level in the second half. The strong recovery is the combination of several points. Firstly, as we mentioned, recovery in retail sales, generating consolidated margin, very positive mix in the group's P&L. The second one is due to inventory sales, particularly good sell-through. Next, cost containment, cost control. Temporarily, we froze hiring, except for production capacity hiring and store openings hiring. Lastly, positive ForEx impact. I mentioned this previously. Regarding the margin rate 2021, as you know, we're strongly dependent on activity levels. It's early days now to make any announcement as to a target.

[Interpreted] I think -- on that particular point, we can't craft our financial model here, but let me just say that Hermès, as we demonstrated this year, is a company with lots of fixed costs. We produce a lot in-house, particularly when you're thinking of various production locations. So when there's a difficulty, fixed costs are there. They're a large proportion of our revenue. If we go beyond objectives, there's a leverage effect. At this juncture, it's too early to say where -- will be above, below or what have you. That's why there can be variations at Hermès from one year to the next. The direction is the right one, though. We're heading in the right direction. Thank you.

We have a question from Luca, Bernstein Research.

[Interpreted] I have a question with regard to Shang Xia. You've deconsolidated this brand, this activity this year. What are the lessons that you actually draw from this experience outside of the Hermès brand? The criteria, the know-how that you have in the house, can it be applied efficiently to other brands or not? The second question is related to your focus on organic growth. You have a very high amount of net cash in your accounts. And I was wondering whether you could confirm your focus on organic growth or whether you have any ambitions beyond that?

Thank you, Luca. The 2 questions are almost related. I would answer -- give you simple answer. Hermès, by tradition, has always -- and this was the vision of Jean-Louis Dumas, wanted to be the tribe of know-how, that is to take under its wings companies, the know-how of which were important. And in our group, I'm thinking of Puiforcat on flatware, Saint-Louis crystal wear. And so we created with Shang Xia based on know-how this company. And today, for its development, I think it needed an impetus with other shareholders, its founder, and we deconsolidated Shang Xia because we are now -- we have a minority share. The role -- and our strategic will is to use organic growth. We have a lot ahead of us. And as you've seen, the strong progression of métiers that everybody is not talking about, jewelry this year, tableware, the house, the home department. And we really believe in the potential of organic growth in Hermès, the reasoned manner. And nothing is excluded, but it is not our global strategy. Thank you, Luca.

We have a question from Thomas Chauvet from Citi.

[Interpreted] This is Thomas Chauvet from Citi. I have a first question. Hermès business model isn't based on radical transformation, you've often said this, it's based on continuity. But the shock due to the pandemic was quite violent in the sector. We saw changes in consumption patterns and so forth. Axel, what are the main lessons you would draw from this crisis, which is still underway in terms of products, distribution, communication? Would there be a need to adjust your business model, possibly, in some respects? Secondly, your segment category. Our luxury jewelry saw strong growth in the second half. What is secrets of the success? Why is it happening now? Could you also comment on profitability of those 2 categories versus group-wide? Next, a follow-up on the first question asked by Edouard on profitability in the second half, which was very high. Maybe this is for Eric. In 2021 and beyond, might there be a change in cost structure at Hermès, fixed costs versus variable costs, wage base, rent payments or other items that might, in the longer run, lead to slightly greater structural growth?

[Interpreted] Yes. I'll answer the first question. I believe it's too early to really see any possible structural changes. We're in the midst of that storm now. I'd also like to say everybody is acting during a crisis as best they see fit. The real difference, I think, is how well prepared you were to enter the period of crisis, which you've done previously. Major structural changes that we're perceiving are changes that were already underway previously or at least we realized this. We're seeing Asia economically predominant. This was further strengthened during the crisis. And we're seeing how important digital things have become. This is the 2 main items. We were already prepared here. We were able to contend with the growth, absorb it using our systems. Plus something else that we've repeated for quite some time now, I talk about the importance of local customers. You've often heard me talk about this during my presentations. And what did we see during the crisis with less traveling and so forth? We saw further uptick in local customers. We were already working on that basis with that rationale. Therefore, I believe our position was pretty strong in this respect. Therefore, the changes we're seeing now were speeded up during this time, but they'd already been underway. We'd already known this in the previous time. Next, of course, there are other events. There are external events that may well be temporary. We had a good strategy in travel retail. Travel retail has been very much impacted by the drop in traveling. This will take some time, probably. But since we've got a good balance, we can absorb this. This isn't a concern. This has always been our intention at Hermès, to be highly optimistic but all the while getting ready for possible crisis. You can't predict and prevent crisis necessarily. Since the beginning of the 21st century, there was September 11 in the U.S. There was Fukushima in Japan. There was SARS in Hong Kong, terrorist attacks in several countries. Currently, there's the COVID crisis. So crises do happen. You have to be prepared for them. You can't know what they're going to be in advance. You don't know where they're going to be. You can't predict one like this. It's so global and so strong. But you have to be ready for a crisis. That, I believe, is our strength at Hermès. We think ahead to the future, and we also try to ensure our resilience during tough times. Broadly, that's the point. As to jewelry, let me say that we are very proud. It's an ongoing endeavor for many years now. This is a métier I'm very attached to personally. I started my career at Hermès in jewelry. I think that we've managed to put together a very original offering. We stand out. We're very different from the rest of the industry. This is highly desirable in the eyes of our customers. I'd remind you, initially, we relaunched jewelry. Jean-Louis Dumas appointed as Executive Director for jewelry Pierre Hardy, who was designing our shoes, he'd never designed jewelry previously. Why did he do it this way? Because we didn't want to do it like everybody else did things. Sometimes people forget. We are about doing it differently. We have our own style. We have our own creation. That's what's at the core of who we are at Hermès. First and foremost, over the years, it's been after all, at least 15 years now that we've been working on this. Jewelry at Hermès is much longer standing than that, of course. It was back in the 1930s. And still a top seller of ours, the Chaîne d’ancre silver bracelet. But this incredible dynamic for process we've been seeing. Also, thanks to the beauty, originality of our products that you won't find anywhere else, there was a strategic change shift to gold and high jewelry. We were very famous for silver in past. Over about 20 years, we've managed to also become very famous in gold jewelry and high jewelry, which has been extremely successful this year. Now in a time of crisis, we think the strength of metal, I'm sure it's had an impact. These are products that people find reassuring. Yes, I'll let Eric answer on the profitability point.

[Interpreted] We don't have a target to maximize profitability at all cost. Our objective is to do things right, invest where we need to invest, i.e., in our production network, in our stores and in digital projects and then reap the benefits. It's important to do those together with all of our employees worldwide in all of our different structures. So -- but that's not our main item we focus on in managing the group. Yes, to comment on what Axel was saying, there's no big changes in our cost structure. First of all, you have everything pertaining to production capacity, i.e., cost of craftsmen and women, production expenses that go up as we open other production sites. Then you have commercial and sales expenses, which vary as stores open and/or are enlarged. The only variable portion is our variable rent payments, making up around EUR 250 million, mainly in Asia. And then lastly, amortizations, which are fixed and go up as we invest in digital projects and IT projects.

We have a question from David Da Maia from CIC.

[Interpreted] A question on the volumes of production in the leather. In 2020, your sales went down with very limited price effect. And so I guess that the volumes were quite close to the drop of 5% in sales. Your inventory increased quite a lot in 2019. Can you tell us whether the production volumes continue to progress in 2020 despite the closure of your workshops for some weeks and the productivity, which, I guess, was impacted due to the health measures? You've come back to a double-digit figure in 2021 if demand is there as it was in the fourth quarter of '20. First question. Second question on the beginning of the year. Beginning of the year, it's difficult to read because of the Chinese New Year and the impact of the pandemic in China last year in February. But can you tell us some indications on possible changes in trends that may be there in some markets as compared to last -- end of the year, last year?

[Interpreted] Well, concerning production of leather, it was highly impacted by the decision that we took to close for 1 month during the first lockdown, our production workshops for the security of everybody. During the first lockdown, we saw some nervousness, and we wished for everybody to stay home to break the chain of the transmission of the virus. Resuming production is more complicated than stopping it. So quite obviously, this year, we did not have productivity rates -- normative productivity rates. They've progressed well, but I can't say that we are in a normal state of things currently. And you've seen with the evolution of the pandemic and differently, in fact, in the different regions of France because we create manufacturing units of 250 to 300 artisans per manufacturing unit. And so we are quite well disseminated on the territory. So we can have situations that are quite different depending on the region in which we are present. Now you have seen the significant growth of leather in the fourth quarter. So the desirability of our products is there. Production should be there with the ups and downs of the French situation because 100% of our leather goods are made in France. It's a strength, but it can also be a drawback in a complex situation. So we have all the reasons to continue in this direction in 2021. It's quite difficult with the 2020, which was so not normal to position oneself on growth rates as of now. There are so many factors involved. And in fact, what do we see in the beginning of the year? You summed up well what I think every time, that it's very difficult to actually give you the figures of the first quarter. There's a trend in the first quarter before we -- end of the month of March with the changes in the date of the Chinese New Year, which is much earlier in 2019 and less early in 2021. And if I were to sum up the situation to give you an answer, I don't see any downward trend in Asia and for the rest of the world, knowing, of course, that some stores that are closed in the world and still are, either it's travel retail or some in Europe, some European countries have closed their stores, which is not the case for France. So it does have an impact but in a macro manner. There is no sort of breaking the trend, no significant break in the trend. Of course, that doesn't mean one has to extrapolate on the fourth quarter.

[Interpreted] As Axel said, for leather, we keep our medium-term objective to increase our capacity by approximately 7% per year.