Hindustan Zinc Limited ($500188)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Fourth Quarter and Full Year FY '26 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Hindustan Zinc. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Ms. Raksha Jain, Director of Investor Relations of Hindustan Zinc. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you, operator, and good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today to discuss the fourth quarter and full year FY '26 results. In this call, we will refer to our Investor Presentation available on our company's website. Please note that today's entire discussion will be covered by the safe harbor clause mentioned on Slide 2 of the presentation. Today, we have Mr. Arun Misra, our CEO; and Mr. Sandeep Modi, our CFO. The management will be discussing the operational and financial update for the quarter, followed by a Q&A session. Now I would like to invite Mr. Arun Misra to present the results. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Raksha. A very good evening to all of you. Thank you for joining us today. Before we begin, it is with deep sorrow that I share an unfortunate incident at our Zawar mines on 25th of January 2026, wherein we lost an employee of our business partner due to an unexpected man-machine interaction. I extend my deepest condolences to the bereaved family and stand with them in this moment of profound grief. We have provided them our unwavering support during this difficult time. Such incidents are deeply distressing and reinforce the critical importance of fostering a strong safety-first culture across our organization, something we continuously strive to strengthen. Following a thorough investigation, we are committed to disseminating learnings across the organization while implementing corrective measures and strengthening safety protocols to prevent such tragedies in future. As part of our efforts to prevent such interactions through digitalization, we have launched a collision avoidance system at our Sindesar Khurd mine, covering underground equipment and personnel. We believe this initiative, along with other safety interventions during this year will further strengthen our journey towards achieving our goal of zero harm. This year, we set a new milestone by crossing 1.1 million tonnes of mined metal while sustaining over 1 million tonne of refined metal production for the fourth consecutive year. This performance was further reinforced by a record-breaking fourth quarter with highest-ever mined and refined metal production. We also achieved record ore resources and reserves of 468.6 million tonnes with 25 years plus of mining life and recorded highest-ever metal reserves of around 14 million tonnes and highest-ever silver reserve of 10,900 tonnes since underground transition. On our journey to becoming a multi-metal enterprise, we have secured 3 critical mineral blocks, potash, tungsten and rare Earths. We have established clear time line with work now underway. Further details are available on Slide 11 of the presentation. On sustainability front, I would like to share that Hindustan Zinc has been featured in the top 1% of the S&P Global Sustainability Yearbook for the ninth consecutive year, reflecting our strong commitment to sustainability and ESG leadership. We remain focused on our 2030 goals with progress across key areas, 18% renewable energy consumption, deployment of 180 LNG and 52 electric vehicles, improved water management, reduced waste to landfill and enhanced gender diversity. Further, I'm proud to share a landmark achievement. Our Chanderiya lead zinc smelters has become India's first site to receive the Zinc Mark and Copper Mark certification, a testament to our commitment to responsible resource use, lower environmental impact and industry-leading standards. Our CSR initiatives reached over 2.6 million lives across our 4,000 villages with Nand Ghars in Rajasthan nearly doubling to 9,274. We remain committed to inclusive growth through focused -- moving to the market development. India continues to remain a standout among major economies with manufacturing PMI sustaining strong momentum above 55 levels during the year. The country's GDP growth for FY 2027 is expected to remain resilient at around 6.4% to 6.9%, supported by continued government CapEx, infrastructure push and robust domestic consumption. Against a volatile global macroeconomic backdrop, base metal markets have remained relatively resilient. During the quarter, zinc prices touched a high of $3,487 per tonne with an average of $3,241 per tonne, while lead peaked at $2,040 per tonne, averaging at $1,931 per tonne. This performance reflects tight market conditions and steady demand from infrastructure, galvanization and battery segments. Silver, however, continues to stand out, maintaining strong momentum, supported by robust industrial demand, particularly from solar and electronics alongside continued investor interest. While prices have normalized from peak levels, the medium-term outlook remains constructive, driven by structural demand from energy transition and limited supply growth. Turning to operational performance. We delivered a record-breaking quarter with mined metal production at 315 Kt and refined metal production of 282 Kt. This led to historic full year performance with mined metal at 1.1 million tonnes and second highest refined metal of 1,048 kilotonnes. The growth was driven by higher ore production and improved mined metal grades. On the refined metal side, output was supported by debottlenecking at Chanderiya & Dariba, improved plant utilization and enhanced operational efficiencies, resulting in higher throughput and better asset performance. On the cost front, despite a volatile geopolitical environment, we achieved the lowest quarterly zinc cost of production, excluding royalty, since underground transition at $903 per tonne, reflecting a decline of 9% year-on-year and 4% quarter-on-quarter. The reduction was driven by a combination of factors, lower power cost, improved byproduct realization and operating leverage benefits from increased volumes. On a full year basis, we delivered a 5-year low cost of production at $959 per tonne, well below our guidance of $1,000 per tonne. This underscores the structural strength of our cost base and reinforces our position on the global cost curve. Our quarterly silver production stood at 176 tonnes, up 11% sequentially. For the full year, silver production stood at 627 tonnes, impacted by change in mining sequence, supported by strong silver prices, our precious metal portfolio achieved a milestone performance contributing 45% to the overall profitability. Further, to capitalize on the favorable price environment and optimize inventory, we strategically sold 12,000 tonnes of lead concentrate during the quarter, including similar actions in the previous quarter. Total silver equivalent sales amounted to 37 tonnes, effectively enhancing overall silver contribution towards the financial performance. This combination of lowest cost of production, strong output and commodity tailwinds translated into all-time high financial performance for the quarter and full year. During the quarter, we delivered record revenue of INR 13,544 crores, highest ever EBITDA of INR 7,747 crores and record net profit of INR 5,033 crores, marking a new milestone for the company. On the growth projects front, we are making steady progress for the 250,000 tonnes per annum integrated zinc smelter at Debari. Site mobilization is complete and detailed engineering is largely finalized. At Rampura Agucha, site work for the tailings reprocessing plant has commenced with engineering completed. In parallel, we are accelerating exploration for our 2x growth plans with partners onboarded at Zawar and Rajpura Dariba. On technology-led initiatives, we are advancing the hot acid leaching process to unlock additional value for smelting waste through recovery of additional lead and silver. Given its complexity as a first of its kind project in India, commissioning is now expected in quarter 2 of FY '27. The fertilizer project is also on track for commissioning in early quarter 2 FY '27. Looking into the year ahead, with a well-structured CapEx road map in place, we are confident in sustaining this strong performance in the year ahead with an expected mined metal production of 1,150 Ktpa plus or minus 10 Kt (sic) [ Ktpa ] and a refined metal production of 1,100 Ktpa plus or minus 10 Kt (sic) [ Ktpa ] with an expected refined silver production of 680 tonnes tonnes plus or minus 10 tonnes. Hindustan Zinc is entering a defining phase of its growth anchored in scale, cost leadership and a relentless focus on excellence. With a strong balance sheet and a clear strategic road map, we are poised to invest decisively, expand our resource base and unlock new avenues of growth. As the world accelerates towards electrification, decarbonization and energy security, we see a generational opportunity for metals. Our ambition is not only to participate in this transformation, but to lead it by building future-ready capabilities, advancing sustainability and delivering consistent long-term value. With this, I now hand over to Sandeep for an update on the financial performance.

Thank you, Mr. Misra, and a good evening, everyone. The global macro environment continues to be marked by uneven growth and geopolitical volatility. In contrast, India remains relatively resilient with FY '26 GDP growth estimated at around 7.6%, moderating to 6.4% to 6.9% in FY '27, supported by strong domestic demand, infrastructure-led CapEx and political continuity. Commodity markets remain sensitive in the near term. However, underlying metal fundamentals are increasingly constructive with energy transition, accelerating zinc and silver demand structurally. While zinc demand remains stable, supported by galvanization, lead continues to witness steady battery-driven demand and silver stand out structurally with strong demand from solar and electronics driving a sustained deficit. These fundamentals provide support to current price levels. Against this backdrop, our focus on cost leadership, operational excellence and balance sheet strength position us well for sustained value creation. Turning to the performance. Both the quarter and the full year marked milestone achievements. For the first time, we have crossed INR 40,000 crores in the revenue and INR 20,000 crores in EBITDA for the full year. This year's record volume and lower-ever costs underpin our margin resilience, showcasing our structural-cost leadership, silver-led profitability upside and disciplined growth CapEx, which position us well for sustained value creation across cycles. In Q4 FY '26, we delivered our highest-ever quarterly revenue of INR 13,544 crores, up 49% Y-o-Y and 23% quarter-on-quarter, driven by higher production, a supportive commodity environment, improved byproduct realization and rupee depreciation. Quarterly EBITDA stood at record INR 7,747 crores, up 61% Y-o-Y and 27% quarter-on-quarter with industry-leading EBITDA margin of 57%. This performance was supported by higher revenue and the lowest-ever quarterly zinc cost of production since underground transition at $903 per tonne. Key drivers included higher domestic coal usage at 64%, softened coal prices of imported one, higher production and a strong by-product realization, along with the better mine grades. Reflecting the strong operating performance, we delivered our highest-ever quarterly net profit of INR 5,033 crores, up 68% Y-o-Y and 29% quarter-on-quarter. For the full year, we achieved record revenue of INR 40,844 crores, EBITDA of INR 22,162 crores and a net profit of INR 13,832 crores. Zinc cost of production for the FY '26 stood at $959 per tonne, the lowest in last 5 years and well below our guided range. Free cash flow before growth CapEx and renewable investment for the year was INR 13,337 crores. For FY '27, we have guided zinc cost of production, excluding royalty, at $975 to $1,000 per tonne, reflecting prevailing global uncertainties. Planned capital expenditure for FY '27 is in the range of $500 to $600 million towards announced growth projects. Our strong cash generation enabled us to close the year with a net cash position of INR 5,594 crores as of March '26 compared to a net debt position of INR 1,169 crores at the close of the last year. Our gross cash position is around INR 14,000 crores as at March '26. During FY '26, we also contributed around INR 19,000 crores to national exchequer, including more than INR 6,000 crores to the state of Rajasthan, underscoring our role as a significant contributor to the economy and the state. We also made meaningful progress in long-term value creation. During the year, Hindustan Zinc was included in the Nifty 100, Nifty Next 50 and multiple Nifty ESG indices. We now rank among the top 5 Nifty metal companies and are among the top companies in the Nifty 100. Our market capitalization stood at approximately INR 212,000 crores at the end of March '26, and we touched a peak market cap of INR 310,000 crores during the year. Overall, Q4 reflects the strength of our business model and execution, while FY '26 marks a milestone year setting new benchmarks across financial and operational metrics. Backed by technology, innovation and strong sustainability framework, we remain well aligned with India's growth and energy transition priorities and are confident of delivering resilient growth and long-term value for all stakeholders. With this, I will now hand over to the operator for the Q&A session. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take our first question from the line of Manav Gogia from Yes Securities India Limited.

Am I audible?

Yes, Manav. Please go ahead.

Yes. So first of all, congratulations on the good set of numbers. My first question comes around would it be possible for you to give me what the hedge quantity across zinc and silver would be for both Q1 '27 and the whole year of FY '27?

For Q1, for the zinc, it is hedged at 20 kt spread between the April to June at an average price of $3,100 and silver is hedged 25 tonnes at an average price of $57. For the full year FY '27, 71 Kt is hedged at an average price of $3,225 per tonne and silver is hedged at 59 tonnes at an average price of $50 per troy ounce.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And just continuing on this, I mean, for silver, the presentation states that we plan to take the capacities up to 830 Kt -- sorry, 830 tonnes by 2029. And this year, the run rate has been roughly 620 to 630 tonnes. So how should we see the runway from here onwards? Could you give us some brief about that?

No, Manav, this will also come along with the expansion of immediately 250 Kt smelter that we are adding, right? So when that 250 Ktpa smelter gets added, so that will come to about [indiscernible] tonnes of metal. And for that, the MIC would be about 1.5 million, 1.55 million tonnes of MIC. Automatically, that gives additional lead, which we will focus. That is number one. Number two, we are commissioning the [indiscernible] circuit, which will produce additional silver. We'll be having the new smelter along with its own fumers. That will also add the silver plus by that time, some amount of tailing recycling will also come back. Altogether, if you look, it will be crossing 800 tonnes of silver by that time.

Okay. But I mean, during Q4, we did around about 176 tonnes for silver. So would it be safe to assume that we can maintain this run rate going ahead in Q1, Q2 and for the remaining part of FY '27 then?

So as of now, our guidance-wise, we have given 680 tonnes for the entire year, right? So we'll follow the similar pattern only, 680 tonnes. And if you consider last year, we did the MIC sale in which 37 tonnes of silver equivalent was there. That 37 tonnes, if you add to 627 tonnes, we have already at 664 tonnes level, right? Compared to that, we have only given a guidance of 680 tonnes. We have got MIC in our hand. And if the lead metal prices fall, while zinc prices are up, which happened last year, then we'll tilt our production towards more of zinc, less of lead, and we will sell the lead MIC, which is made surplus this way and then produce silver whatever is possible through the zinc maximization route at the same time, recover silver through the lead MIC.

Okay. Okay. No, that is helpful. Sir, my second question comes, there's a 35% sequential jump in other expenses. What were the key reasons behind the same?

See Manav, I will address this. HZL has -- so you will see the similar jump in other operating income as well. Okay. So I will address the both parts. So HZL had entered into the various agreements with -- we have set up the various ancillary business. So the ancillary business are basically with a third party where we provide them smelters residue, which they convert from waste to wealth. So as per this arrangement, HZL sells the smelter residue, which is like PF cake, which contains the zinc and cadmium. And then after that, it is also purchase back the finished goods or the WIP, which then used by Hindustan Zinc in the other smelting processes or mining processes. So that's why as per the accounting, the transaction is accounted when the sale happens as other operating income. And when the purchase happen, it is a part of the other expenditure. And the amount is around INR 600 crores, both sides.

Pardon, I could not get the numbers, sir, what was the amount?

INR 600 crores, will see on -- around INR 600 crores, both sides, other operating income as well as other expenditure for the full year.

Okay. Okay. And do we expect to continue this trend going forward then? I mean, the agreement?

Yes. This trend will continue to increase, and you will see this INR 600 crores going up to maybe INR 1,200 crores to INR 1,500 crores annually in both sides other operating income and other expenditures.

Next question is from the line of Pallav Agarwal from Antique Stockbroking.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So first question was on the COP. So the quarter 4 cost was pretty low at $900 per tonne. But for the full year, you're giving a guidance of about $975 to $1,000, so will there be such a steep increase? Or will we see $975 in Q1 or that will be more towards the second half of the year?

So Pallav, I will address here. So see, the cost of Q4, it has been a significant benefit coming on account of the mining grade. So we had a mining grade of 7.9% in the Q4 and compared to the full year average of around 7.5%. And as I explained once, 10 bps of the mining grade impacts the $7. So I think Q1, historically, we have been around 7.3%, 7.4%. That should be there. Of course, we don't give guidance quarter-wise. At the same time, secondly, the current geopolitical environment, where you see the input cost commodity coming impact of the diesel, propane gas, chemical, explosive. So I think we need to factor those also on a year basis. So maybe we don't know about what uncertainties, but we have factored certain portion of it. That put together, I think $975 to $1,000 is good enough. I'm sure we should be able to do much below that as the situation improves.

Sure, sir. And also, have you seen any impact? I mean, of this shortage of natural gas, has it impacted our production in any aspect or led to higher costs in Q4?

It is a marginally higher cost in the Q4, maybe around $11 per tonne. But on the production point of view, no impact.

Sure, sir. And lastly, if you could just give me the RE -- proportion of RE consumption in '26 and how much will that increase in '27?

So FY '26, we closed for the full year around 18% renewable energy. And for the full year in FY '27, we should be between 30% to 35%.

Next question is from the line of Ashish Kejriwal from Nuvama Wealth Management.

Again, many congratulations. Sir, 2 things from my side. One, obviously, the cost of production, which we have seen sharp fall, the byproduct credits could have helped a big way because we are seeing in our top line also revenue of others increased from INR 783 crores to INR 1,362 crores in this quarter for fourth quarter. So my only question is how much one can contribute or work to the higher sulphuric acid prices or the benefits of that in terms of our cost of production?

So Ashish, sulphuric acid prices are basically a division of [indiscernible] of many things. One is the government also have their own control for the fertilizer. Second are linked with the sulphur index. So by and large, you can consider depending upon the sulphur index, the prices would be. So the way input commodity prices are moving, similar way, these prices are also moving. So I think whatever we have seen in Q4, and we have seen a stable thing in the April as well. So I think whatever we have seen in the March should continue until this situation is there for the input commodities. So that is more like offsetting for us. So if the input commodity increases, these prices increases and then we get offsets.

Arun Misra here, I just wanted to add. Look at it positively in the guidance. When we move from 1,048 Kt metal to 1,100 Kt metal, that means much more acid, more residues will be available to us. So this effort is sustainable. And going forward, the volumes are only increasing. So this other income going up and up every year, unless the prices crash, we will see a good prospect of sustaining this kind of an earning.

Yes, I agree, sir. That's the reason I was asking in terms of -- in a per tonne basis or something, if you can guide how much it could be, which can be sustainable in nature?

Yes, I think we should leave it to the index. I don't think we can quantify...

Only you can make a guess that quantities of material will keep on increasing along with the increase in more mined metal and more refined metal.

Okay. Second question is on account of the next phase of expansion. We earlier said that in the first phase, we are increasing capacity by 250,000 tonnes. And obviously, you have been giving us updates each quarter. But what is missing is the second phase, which we discussed also when you announced that you are saying that in the next 6 months, we will come out with the next phase of expansion plan also. So where we are? Or do we think that first, we will complete this and then only we'll start or how to take it forward?

No, no, no. So we are absolutely on the job. See, the change, which has happened is earlier we were thinking we'll make 2 or 3 different smelters in different locations. Then we had an idea instead of doing that, why not bring everything together in one place. Then we reworked the whole plan. And now the designers have confirmed that in one location, about 600 Ktpa, 700 Ktpa smelter can be put. We plan to do that where we are putting the 250 Ktpa smelter. That means in one location, 1 million tonne smelter will come up. So that design has been finalized. Now the commercial process is going on. I see that another 1 month's time, we should be able to place the order. And now last 2 months, we are focusing on the mill portion because we have already placed order for mining. Now the mills have to be expanded. I think mills order will also close sometime between the first week of June or second week of June. So although we wanted to clear out all the orders by January of this year, but we are slightly late, but it is worth it because putting everything together in one place will reduce the cost of the project also.

And where we are putting sir, Rajasthan only or somewhere else?

Rajasthan, Rajasthan, all Rajasthan only. And we want to bring it in the similar distances because we don't want to carry concentrate on far distance.

Understood. And sir, lastly, obviously, when we are very much keen on putting up this kind of smelter or CapEx, I'm sure that we have been given a sense from the government about the mines, which is going to be renewed or expired in 2030. So we are very much comfortable on that. That's right?

No, we are comfortable because we have the first right of refusal. So in any case, we -- it's only a matter of how much premium we are ready to pay, but just by bidding, people cannot take it away.

Next question is from the line of [ Pinakin ] from HSBC.

Sir, my first question is on the silver production guidance. It looks a bit underwhelming. So just trying to understand that when can we see silver production spike up sharply, 700 tonnes, 725 tonnes [indiscernible] Should we expect production to remain in this range, 670 tonnes, 680 tonnes for the next 3 years only?

I will give you the clue. That can happen when the zinc prices fall to, say, $2,800 to $3,000 per tonne. If the zinc prices fall, then -- and silver remains at, say, $60 a troy ounce, it will make much sense to produce more lead and silver than production of zinc. And when we do that, then we'll surely see the numbers going up to 700 tonnes plus.

Okay. So just trying to understand that as a company, we cannot have higher silver prices and higher silver production. They are mutually exclusive.

No. See, ultimately, our mines we -- our grade, which we are proud of and which determines the cost is the grade of zinc. So it's a more zinc-rich ore. And when the zinc LME is so good, say, $3,100, $3,200 on an average or picking up to $3,400. If you put the volumes, it is better than producing 30 tonnes additional silver. If I put 30,000 tonnes of additional zinc, it brings me more money.

Got it. My second question is on the dividend payout. It's a bit surprising that the quarter has just started, and we have declared a [indiscernible] dividend. So what is the thought process behind this? And also the brand fee/royalty fee, has this been paid out to the parent for this year? And were there any changes over there?

So just one thing, I will correct you that we don't have anything called royalty fee. It is brand and strategic services fee. So I think let's keep it.

Yes, you should use the right word...

There is no royalty.

Brand license and strategic services fee. I will first come to the dividend. I think last year also Q1, in the June month, we declared the -- company declared, the Board approved the dividend for the FY '26 as the first interim dividend. And I think dividend is not dependent upon the -- this year's profit. Dividend is out of the earnings which company has. So we have almost INR 22,000 crores worth of the retained earnings. And out of that, the Board has approved the first interim dividend of INR 11, which is around INR 4,300 crores. I think that should be -- and as far as the brand fee -- license and strategic services fees is concerned, that has been paid as per the contract entered into with Vedanta Limited for this year.

So what would be that amount be for this year versus last year?

This year is around INR 1,300 crores.

In FY '27. What was this in FY '26?

It was INR 1,100 crores.

Next question is from Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities.

Sir, just continuing on the previous question. I just want to know the contract for the brand fee, when it is due for revision in terms of the percentage share?

So brands and royalty and strategic services fee contract is valid till 2030. So in between, there is -- no renewal is there. It's valid till 2030.

And the payout happens for the full year based on some estimate in the first quarter, is that right?

Yes.

But it's settled at the end of the year.

It is settled at the end of the year. This is the annual account. So like for FY '26, after the annual accounts audit, we have to pay INR 100 crores pertaining to FY '26.

Okay. Okay. Understand. Sir, my second question is on dividend. So FY '26, if we see we paid some INR 21, which is a decline versus last year, whereas profitability has gone up much more. So generally, going forward, given the massive tailwind on earnings, given the commodity prices, what should we expect? Should -- I mean, is there now a plan to pile on cash given the upcoming CapEx? Or should we expect a high payout to continue?

We will continue to -- I think the Board will continue to balance between paying dividend and investing for the expansion. So that balance will continue. And I don't think it is one or the other. Both will continue. Because when we declared expansion, the question put to me was, will we be in a position to pay dividend. Now our operations are proving that we are able to maintain both that we are able to pay dividend as well as we are continuing to expand by investing in our assets.

Okay. But conceptually, so cash flows will be used for dividend and growth, we would not be using debt for our growth expansion, right?

Ideally, no, but cash time line mismatch or if I get better earning by my own investment rather than -- and loan is much cheaper because of our balance sheet strength, then we would take those calls. But primarily, we are earning enough to fund our growth. That is for sure.

Understood. Understood. Sir, second question is on the hedging strategy. Given the volatility in the prices, both for silver and to some extent, zinc as well. Broadly, what should we expect? I think currently, we are around 10% hedged. So are we continuously monitoring the prices and then -- I mean, evaluating to increase for broadly 10%, 15% is what we expect and then rest leave it to the market?

I think as we said in the earlier calls also, we will be -- our philosophy and policy has been to hedge between 10% to 20%. And at this point of time, we are comfortable with the 10%. We'll see if the prices spike, which we believe is not a sustainable kind of thing because of [indiscernible] then we can look at. But if you see in the last quarter, we have not hedged anything. We'll continue to be comfortable at 10%.

Okay. And generally, how far can we do it based on liquidity? Are we also evaluating FY '28 or only currently 1 or 2 quarters ahead?

We will not be going beyond 12 months. That is the very sure.

Understood. Understood. And just one last question. Can I ask one more question?

Yes, yes, please go ahead.

Okay. With respect to 0.5 million tonne fertilizer plant, can you share what is the volume expectation, ramp-up schedule, economics? And are we facing any RM challenges there due to the ongoing conflict in Middle East?

No, we have not started operations at all. And another 3 months down the line, we should be able to start our phosphoric acid plant, which is the first part. Then maybe 2026 end or '27 early, which is January, we will be able to start our DAP manufacturing plant. So right now, there is no impact of rock phosphate and all that on our operations.

Next question is from the line of Raashi from Citi.

What was the revenue and the EBITDA from the lead concentrate sales during the quarter, please?

Quarter 4, you must be asking?

Yes.

So quarter 4, the revenue was around INR 500 crores and EBITDA was around INR 330 crores. Hello?

Raashi, does that answer your question?

Yes, yes. I still have a follow-up question. Sir, your EBITDA has actually declined sequentially on the sale of the lead concentrate?

Depends upon how much lead concentrate you are selling. We are not into the business of selling the concentrate. Since we were having the MIC production higher compared to the metal production, that's why we use it. And I don't think EBITDA has gone down. EBITDA in Q3 was around INR 250 crores and this time, INR 330 crores. But of course, it is not on account of the -- it is a function of the prices, USD, INR rate. At the same time, TC/RC and the quantity which you sell.

Got it. On the hedging, what was the hedging loss in the fourth quarter?

So hedging, I will not say it's a loss. It is a delta compared to the prevalent market prices, INR 1,100 crores was...

Sorry, how much?

INR 1,100 crores was the delta between the hedged price and what was the market price.

This is for the fourth quarter. And for the full year, what is this number?

The delta was INR 1,500 crores.

Okay. On the CapEx, could you just break down the '26 CapEx into growth and maintenance? What was the actual number -- and maintenance?

Maintenance CapEx was INR 3,600 crores for the full year and growth CapEx was INR 2,000 crores.

INR 3,600 crores was maintenance. Got it. Okay.

Yes.

We'll take our next question from the line of Jainam Shah from Indsec Securities & Finance.

I am audible sir?

Yes.

Congratulations on a good set of results. So my question is related to what was asked before. So you said that you would be planning to take the renewable energy share to 32% to 35%. So could you just give us the time line of how are we going to reach to 70%?

70% is by FY '28 as we committed earlier as well as part of our sustainability goals. By FY '28, we'll be 70%...

No. Sir, my question is because at 18%, we are at the zinc cost of production at $903 per tonne. So while we reached to 32% to 35% and eventually to 70%, would this change our zinc cost of production estimate?

So it will depend upon the own generation cost. So it is a function of what is the imported coal prices at that point of time, what will be the domestic coal prices in availability at that point of time. So currently, in this year, we had a benefit of the lower coal prices and the domestic coal utilization. So we earlier said that every 2% renewable energy increase will have a $1 cost reduction. We still stand by it given the long-term coal prices. So if we move from 20% to 70%, we can see the further potential of $25 per tonne cost reduction.

Okay. Understood. And in terms of the VAP share for FY '26, if you could just share the number? And also an adjoining question would be that we are planning to take it to 50%. With that in mind, how much realization would improve for us in the coming years?

So I think earlier -- as I said earlier, VAP is not like other businesses like in aluminum where the VAP commands a $500 or $1,000 extra incremental [indiscernible] So it's not like that. Of course, we are also into VAP. We have around 24% VAP in FY '26. But in our -- in zinc case, VAP hardly commands $50 to $60 per tonne over and above the normal, what you say, the SHG zinc. So it is not more on -- it is not on account of the profit. It is more on account of the supply to the customers who require in India. So this helps us to increase the domestic market share in India.

Okay. And sir, when do we plan to come up with the final plan of 600 Kt that we have mentioned in our Slide #26, and detailed plan on how much the CapEx and revenue potential would be? That would be helpful.

I think [indiscernible] 3 questions back, Mr. Misra explained about the whole thing that we are working on a 1 million tonne smelter, out of which 250 Kt already started in Rajasthan. And by the quarter 1 end, we should be ready with a complete conceptual plan and the layout of the plant and the engineering. And then we can see in the July or some -- that time, we can have a board announcement after the full feasibility.

Next question is from the line of Vikash Singh from ICICI Securities.

Sir, my first question pertains to our silver hedging strategy. I'm a little bit perplexed because silver prices in the last quarter has touched even $100-plus. So if we are hedging certain quantity as -- every month, certain quantity, our average should have been higher than what you have said at the opening remarks. So just wanted to understand, have we stopped hedging after a certain point of time, realizing our mistake and then the silver prices turned upside down. What happened actually?

Vikash, just a humble request. I don't think anybody could say it's a mistake. Every company has their own policy of hedging the volume. So we had earlier said, 10% to 20% annual volume we will hedge. And accordingly, we hedged the 10% for this year and last year, 20%. And we stopped hedging after the 10% hedging. So you are right, after the Q3, we have not hedged anything, but that is not on account of anything else. It's more account of what company follows the strategy. Given that 58%, 59% kind of EBITDA margin of the company, we believe that -- and silver being a byproduct, we believe that it's not worthwhile to experiment and do the hedging beyond 10%. And every company has a philosophy. You have the Indian counterparts in the other metal business who has a 40% to 60% hedged for many of the quarters. So I don't think it is a mistake, it's more about the strategy. You always have an open position over 80% on which you can earn much better for -- by the hedging, I would not say pray to the God that prices should fall. Prices should always be increasing on the remaining portion.

Understood. No. But I mean that you are talking about 10% hedging. But at the end of 2Q, your overall hedging for the remaining of second half FY '26 was almost 45%, 50% of the total silver, which you are supposed to produce. So that's why I'm saying, is there any standardization that I would keep on hedging 10% or 15% on a rolling basis? How should we look at it?

So we are not following the policy of the rolling 12 months. However, at the same time, our philosophy that we will not go beyond 12 months, and we'll be relooking whenever required 10% to 20%. If I'm at 10%, there is no compulsion that I have to go up to the 20%. It is also not a compulsion that if I unwound the position, then I have to again increase to 10%.

Noted, sir. Sir, my second question pertains to our long-term target of 2 million tonnes. Assuming there would be a minimum of 25% kind of the additional premium, which you might have to pay and the CapEx cost would also be higher. So any IRR estimates which we have done for the new projects, if you could share with us?

For 250 Ktpa, we have already done the IRR estimate, and we don't declare the IRR. But as I said earlier, it's a double-digit IRR and much, much better than compared to industry benchmark. And because it also reflects on account of our lowest cost of production in terms of OpEx and in terms of CapEx also when we announced, we said it's around $2,600 per tonne CapEx cost. So IRR is in the double digit. And for the 1 million tonne, we need to yet work because once we have the conceptualization, layout and everything, engineering, technology finalization, then only we can do. But of course, I can confirm that it will be a double-digit IRR.

We'll take a last question from the line of Prateek Singh from IIFL Capital.

The first question is just a clarification on the dividend. So I think in the past, we had a stated dividend policy of a minimum of 30% of PAT. Given that the PAT or EPS last year was around INR 30. So just to clarify, for FY '26, the dividend given was INR 10, right? Not INR 21. This INR 11 will count in FY '27. Is that correct?

Yes, yes, INR 10 was the dividend in FY '26.

Understood. And INR 11 will count for '27. Understood. So -- and minimum 30% is the policy that stays as of now regardless of CapEx?

Yes, absolutely.

Understood. And the second question is largely on the other operating income increase. I'm not sure if it was covered in opening remarks, but we saw a decent increase in other operating income. What was that driven by? Was sulphuric acid sales part of it? And how are we seeing the prices of acid sales vis-a-vis, let's say, 3Q? Or have they just started increasing in 1Q only?

So other operating income consists of 2 main items. One is the, as you said, sulphuric acid and second is the byproducts and various scrap and residue which we sell. Second, as I say, we have entered into the agreement with a third party for setting up the ancillary businesses in which it's a waste to wealth where we provide them the residue, they process it and they provide the finished goods like [ cadmium ] or other metals, which are further used in other processes. So that -- as per the accounting, that goes -- that around INR 600 crores for the whole year is part of other operating income as well as also part of the other expenditure. You see the other expenditure has also increased. So it's an offsetting item, but accounting doesn't allow to do the offsetting. It has to capture into both other operating income and other expenditures. From the costing point of view, 2 items come to the cost credit. One is the scrap and residual sales, which is around -- for the whole year was around INR 1,000 crores and the remaining is the sulphuric acid, which is around INR 1,400 crores.

Understood. And how are sulphuric acid prices right now, sir, versus, let's say, 4Q?

So it is linked to the sulphur index. So the sulphur -- and as the sulphur index moves, the prices also get quarterly reset.

Okay. And just one last question on the coal side. Again, I'm not sure if you covered it earlier. What was the coal sourcing mix? And how are we seeing the auction prices by Coal India given that there is gas shortage, so people might move to coal?

So during the whole year, we were around 53% domestic coal materialization and 18% was the renewable energy. So overall, around 70% from the -- this way or 30% was the imported coal. If you go for the Q4, around 64% was the domestic coal and 18% this and the remaining was the imported coal. So we believe we have the linkage coal auction where the prices are determined by the government of this Coal India. We have not seen any steep increase in the domestic coal. Given that at this point of time, there is a huge delta between the import and domestic coal, almost around 40%, domestic coal will always be cheaper for us.

So domestically, we source only via linkage, not by e-auctions?

Very marginally through e-auction.

Thank you. I now hand over the conference to Ms. Raksha Jain for closing comments. Over to you.

Thank you, operator. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today on this call. If there are any follow-up questions or any clarifications required, please feel free to reach out to the Investor Relations team. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Hindustan Zinc, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.