iFAST Corporation Ltd. (AIY) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to iFAST Corporation's Fourth Quarter 2025 and Full Year 2025 Results Presentation. My name is JP from the Corporate Communications team. And together with us, we have Chung Chun, our Group CEO; Terence, our Group CFO; as well as members from our iFAST Finance and Corporate Communications teams. I'll start with a key summary. So in FY 2025, the group saw some major milestones as total revenue crossed $500 million for the first time. So that's up 34.4% year-on-year to $514.72 million, and our net profit hit $100.01 million, which is a 50.1% year-on-year increase. In fourth quarter of 2025, total revenue for the group grew 45.7% year-on-year to $151.74 million, and net profit for the group grew 70.4% year-on-year to $32.86 million. The increase in 2025 profitability was driven by growth in the Hong Kong ePension business, continuing growth in our core wealth management platform business as well as the achievement of our first full year of profitability for the iFAST Global Bank. For the group's core wealth management platform business, our group assets under administration, or AUA, increased 27.9% year-on-year to a new record high of $31.98 billion. Growth was seen in all the various markets that we operate in with Singapore continuing to be the main contributor. Our group net inflows was at a record $4.72 billion in FY 2025. The group's return on equity in 2025 was a robust 28.3%. A healthy ROE allows the group to be able to pursue robust long-term growth strategies while being able to raise dividend payouts. The Board of Directors is proposing a dividend of $0.025 per ordinary share, which is 56.3% higher for the fourth quarter and final dividend of FY 2025. With that, total dividends for FY 2025 amounted to $0.084 per ordinary share, which is 42.4% higher compared to FY 2024. Looking forward and barring unforeseen circumstances, the group expects 2026 to see healthy growth rates in revenues and profitability. As a global digital banking and wealth management platform, the group is increasingly looking to make progress with a truly global business model, which means attracting customers from around the world while operating only from a few key markets. Of particular significance will be the group's ability to leverage on our presence in Singapore, London and Hong Kong, which are 3 of the top financial centers in the world. Our B2C division, which is called FSMOne in Singapore and Hong Kong will be repositioned as FSM Global as part of this truly global business model. The group is targeting to achieve an AUA of $100 billion by 2030. This implies a compound annual growth rate or CAGR of about 25.6% or higher over the next 5 years. For the overall Hong Kong business, which includes both the wealth management pie and the ePension business, the group is targeting double-digit growth in revenues and profitability in 2026. Also pension administration business is expected to start contributing in second half 2026, while the Macau ePension business is expected to show substantial growth. iFAST Global Bank will be building on its milestone of our first full year of profitability in 2025 and targets to continue to see robust growth rates in 2026 and beyond. For FY 2026, the Board of Directors expects to propose a total dividend of $0.105 per share or higher, which is at least 25% higher compared to FY 2025. Our group AUA slide, as you can see, has been growing well. So it increased 27.9% year-on-year to a record high level of $31.98 billion as at 31st December 2025. That's also 4.2% higher Q-on-Q and comprising about roughly 65% in the B2B division and the remaining 35% from the B2C division. On the next slide, the AUA breakdown by markets and products. So Singapore remaining the largest contributor in terms of contribution by market at 70.3%, followed by Hong Kong and Malaysia at roughly about 11% each, and others at 7.2%, which is made up of China and the U.K. AUA breakdown by products. So Unit Trusts still remains the largest contributor at 56.2%, followed by stocks and ETFs, which is at 24.1%, bonds at 11% and cash account and deposits at 8.6%. I will move on to the Section I, which covers the financial results. So firstly, starting with the fourth quarter numbers. So in 4Q 2025, total revenue was $151.74 million, which is 45.7% higher year-on-year. Net revenue was at $102.35 million, which is 57.7% higher year-on-year. Operating expenses was at $64.69 million in 4Q 2025, which is 58.2% higher year-on-year. Net profit at $32.86 million in 4Q 2025, which is up 70.4% year-on-year. For the full year results, FY 2025 versus FY 2024, so total revenue at $514.72 million, which is 34.4% higher year-on-year. Net revenue was at $339.65 million in FY 2025, which is 36.7% higher year-on-year. OpEx was at $220.7 million, which is 33.2% higher compared to FY 2024. Net profit for FY 2025 was at $100.01 million, which is 50.1% higher year-on-year. The results overview for the group on the next slide for the last 5 financial years. Looking at the PBT margin for the group, the profit before tax margin based on total net revenue. So for 2025, it was at 34.8%. Return on equity is at a record high based on the annualized return on equity rate since listing at 28.3% for 2025. Looking at the P&L based on the different markets. So firstly, for 4Q 2025, Singapore was up 40.5% year-on-year in the quarter at $14.22 million. Hong Kong, 53% up year-on-year to $20.11 million. And also the other trend, which has continued is the U.K. banking operation, which registered its fifth consecutive quarter of profits at $1.1 million for 4Q 2025. China's losses have been narrowing. And in 4Q 2025, that's actually narrowed by 19% to $0.88 million. I won't go through the FY 2025 comparison on the P&L basis. On the next slide, you can see the P&L breakdown for the last 5 financial years. The next couple of slides shows you the gross revenue, firstly, at the geographical breakdown level for the last 5 financial years and the net revenue level on the next slide, again, for the next -- for the various markets for the last 5 financial years. I'll wrap up with the dividend information. So as mentioned just now, the Board of Directors is proposing a dividend of $0.025 per ordinary share for the last quarter or the final dividend of FY 2025. That will be subject to approval by shareholders at the company's Annual General Meeting, which will be held on 24th of April 2026. So the proposed final dividend, if approved, brings the total dividend for FY 2025 to $0.084 per ordinary share, which is higher than the $0.059 in 2024. The next slide shows you graphically how the trend has been going on for the dividends. The key point here is ORSO for FY 2026, the Board of Directors expects to propose a total dividend of $0.105 per share or higher, which is at least 25% higher compared to FY 2025. I'll now invite Chung Chun to carry on for the business update.

Hi, everyone. Yes, I will give some update on some of the achievements for the year as well as some forward plans for the group. Yes, the first part really is just to highlight a few of the key achievements that we have made for the year. Firstly, of course, AUA hit a record high. We -- in 2025, we actually have a growth being seen in AUA in all the markets that we're actually in. Singapore continues to be a strong performer. It is the business division that we -- the country that we started with, but it continues to be in a position where we are able to continue to see a lot of growth. And in fact, we see that going forward, there are a lot more opportunity that we can actually capture. Some of the numbers, I won't run through in detail. I think you can see the numbers and charts are self-explanatory. Next slide is net inflow trend. You can see the overall trend has been growing over the years. Net inflow number on a quarterly basis may bounce a bit, but overall, you can see that has been positive. This one will be the gross unit trust subscription that we actually have. Unit trust continue to be our core product as an investment platform. So for the Hong Kong business, we previously gave some guidance about what's expected for Hong Kong. And the last time we updated our guidance was in April 2025. Back then, we guided that gross revenue will be HKD 1.2 billion or more and PBT will be HKD 380 million more. So the actual results, gross revenue is about there. The PBT is slightly higher than our targeted guidance. So we ended 2025 with HKD 402 million in terms of PBT for Hong Kong business as a whole. 2026, we continue to expect some growth, and we are targeting double-digit growth. So in the last couple of years, we have tended to give more detailed guidance for a different part. And the reason for that was because of the fact that the Hong Kong ePension division is new and is a substantial project. So we wanted to give investors a better feel of roughly what to expect. Now the project is -- the onboarding has substantially been completed towards the end. So going forward, I expect that there will be further growth, but we are not giving exact guidance here, but just at this point in time to, in a sense, indicate that we expect the growth to continue. Next page. iFAST Global Bank, that's a bank that we acquired in March 2022. So we had 3 years of losses initially as we built out the services as we work through the changes following the acquisition and so on. And in the meantime, it's been progressing well. 2025 is a year where we see the first full year of profitability in Sing dollar is about SGD 3.1 million in pretax profit for the bank. So we want to build on this achievement that we have made and we're aiming for something far more interesting in the years ahead. So at the beginning of each financial year, in the last few years, we have been giving our 3-year plan. And so right now, at the beginning of 2026, we are giving an updated 3-year plan for the group, right? So basically, we summarized in 5 main points here. The first point really is that, yes, we are a digital -- global digital banking and wealth management platform. And what we'd like to be able to do is to be able to make more substantial progress with what we call a truly global business model. I think this is a term that we have actually been using the last couple of years. Each time I try to explain a bit more what we are basically envisioning, just so that investors can understand our strategy better. I'll elaborate a bit more on this later on. Second point would be the group target AUA. We are targeting the $100 billion by 2030. So you're looking at it if the group achieved $100 billion by 2030, then there's a CAGR of 25.6%. Given the opportunity and the effort that we've been putting in, we believe that, that is something that, yes, is achievable with good execution. The AUA numbers for us include the wealth management platform numbers, the core business that we have. It will include the deposit numbers for Bank. And the new part that is coming on board, the Hong Kong ORSO business, which is the other part of the retirement scheme, the older part of retirement scheme that's actually there that we expect to start contributing second half 2026. That will add on to the AUA. The eMPF, of course, doesn't add on to A part of the business as well as our Macau ePension services, those will add on to the AUA as well. Macau has actually started contributing for a couple of months at the end of last year. These are some small initial number, but we expect that, that will grow significantly more. Third point regarding the ePension and here, I'm referring more to the eMPF. As I mentioned, the onboarding is substantially already completed. So we are at the tail end of the onboarding. And lots of work continue to be needed. But I would say that probably we have seen probably the toughest part of this project, which is really 2026 as we ramp up the resources required to do all the onboarding as all the onboarding happened from different trustees, each with its own unique kind of initial operational considerations and so on. That has been a busy year and heading year. Of course, lots of work remains. We still need to ensure that the overall quality of the services and operational efficiency can continue to improve. Yes, but probably the most uncertain part of what to expect on the day-to-day property has been seen. Now it's looking of further improvement in efficiency. Point #4, yes, so we started as a wealth management platform. And then along the way, we bought the bank, we add a global digital bank to the overall ecosystem. So we are a global digital banking and wealth management platform. And increasingly, we have been looking at what we call a truly global business model. And for that to work very well, we actually find that there are certain additional services that we need to steadily try to develop. One of the areas is, in fact, in the area of payment. I think you'll be aware that we already have some payment services within the group, debit card, for instance, in FSM Singapore as well as the iFAST Global Bank, we have a debit card services. The Global Bank have a division called EzRemit, which is in the remittance business, mainly in the Middle East. That helps with the movement of money across borders and that's important in helping us to be able to provide a full range of payment services efficiently and smoothly. So as we move forward, we expect that there will be more work to be done in terms of some of these payment services. Several months ago, we announced that we have received in principle approval for E-Money license in Malaysia. We are in the process of also applying for license in a couple of the markets that we're in, including Singapore. So yes, we expect that as the quarters ahead progress in the years ahead, we'll continue to be introducing more and more services that will actually make it -- make us a lot more complete and a lot more attractive as a global digital banking and wealth management. Point 5 really is to continue to broaden the fintech ecosystem that we have. That's something that has been an ongoing thing. The next chart -- yes, the fintech ecosystem, I think in the subsequent pages is a chart. Maybe you go a few pages forward the fintech ecosystem. Yes. So this is a chart that we show how we have been broadening the fintech ecosystem that we have and that's an ongoing progress for us. I'll go back to -- yes, to this slide. Just to elaborate a bit more about this truly global business model that we have actually been talking about. Traditionally, when we think of businesses in terms of expanding to different places, different country, we think in terms of going there fiscally, set up the operations locally and then further grow from there. We were doing quite a bit of that in the past because going from Singapore to Hong Kong, Malaysia, India at the time in China. I would say that, yes, as we did that, it is something that is -- takes a lot of effort and new market in set of new business operation from scratch, it typically take quite a number of years before we're able to make money. But we are -- we have been living in the Internet world. The world has been living through Internet world. In the last 25, 30 years, business models have been changing globally. I always like to use an example of Netflix, Spotify, they operate from one or 2 countries, but you have customers from around the world. In your case, hundreds of millions of paying customers through subscription from around the world. We have believed more and more in the last few years that when it comes to the financial sector, there's no reason why a truly global business model cannot happen. Banking and wealth management are essentially services that doesn't require physical movement of goods. So no reason why things cannot be on the basis of a truly global business model. So this is something that we started talking about last few years. And as we did so, I think a lot of the planning revolved around iFAST Global Bank and to some extent, the Singapore business and so on. But we're in a phase where we feel that there are actually still quite a bit more things for us to do. in terms of being able to make this truly global business model a bigger part of the overall business. So with that, we are basically now articulating it a bit more clearly to say that yes, for this truly global business model, we feel that the 3 key centers that will make a bigger difference to this effort will be Singapore, London, Hong Kong. These are 3 key centers where we have substantial presence in, where we continue to improve on the services that we have developed. London, of course, is a iFAST Global Bank. And that today, we already have a situation where money can be transmitted from iFAST Singapore, Hong Kong, London to and fro instantly at no cost for our customer. And yes, we will continue to build on some of this work that we have done, introduce more services and that will make the whole ability for us to build our global business progress faster. As a group, we started 25, 26 years ago with our B2C business, FSM. At that time, we called it FSMOne. Now we call it FSM. And along the way, we sort of realized that as we try to grow our business as we roll out the services all obvious communication. While we have been thinking in terms of global customers as a potential, but in terms of the manner by which we position ourselves by which we put out all the different materials and article and communication, we probably were talking more to the Singapore, if I take FSM Singapore. So we're talking more to the 6 million people that are in Singapore. I think it's time that we try to more effectively communicate to not just 6 million people, but maybe 1 billion people that's actually out there somewhere in the world that potentially can use Singapore FSM. So we have Singapore, iFAST Global Bank in London, Hong Kong, I think we feel that we can accelerate this truly global business model better, and that is a very important part of our aim for the next few years. So in line with that, we're also repositioning FSM Singapore and FSMOne Hong Kong to basically FSM Global to communicate that message more clearly that for global customers, they are our target client. That's how we started iFAST Global Bank instead of calling it iFAST Bank. We started by calling iFAST Global Bank and with that have majority of our customers being nonresident for iFAST Global Bank. For us in Singapore and Hong Kong, we have been quite well entrenched in terms of the services for our customers here. And that part will continue to grow, but we also want to target the bigger addressable market. Next. So this is a chart that I showed earlier our fintech ecosystem. Yes. So that really is the part that I want to run through. The next sections are on some performance trends. I think the are self-explanatory. So we leave it to. At this point, we'll open the session up to questions and answers.

Yes. Thank you, Chung Chun. And we'll move to the Q&A segment. And we have investors and analysts both present in the board room as well as on Zoom. So maybe we'll just open the floor to those who are here in the boardroom first before we take on some of the questions that we have in Zoom, yes, any questions? Yes.

I have a few segments of questions that I want to split it up, but maybe I'll just start firstly on Singapore. I just noticed that actually the quarter-on-quarter performance in Singapore has actually been quite well. I think profit before tax was up 27% quarter-on-quarter. So what is some of the drivers that you have observed in the last quarter? And when you talk about the opportunities to grow -- continuing to grow in Singapore, are you referring more to the B2B or the B2B -- B2C segment, yes. So that's for Singapore.

Singapore overall have had a strong year, strong growth momentum throughout the year. And in fact, Singapore has been -- if I take the wealth management part of the business, then Singapore has actually been the best performer. So the growth is actually coming from both businesses. Both segments have actually continued to be strong. And yes, which is why as well I have been saying that despite the fact that there's the biggest part of business is technically the most mature, but we continue to see a lot more opportunity to come. Yes, so the overall momentum is there, the growth is there. In terms of profitability, also sometimes it also depends on in that quarter to what extent is some additional costs or otherwise, that makes some difference. But overall, the growth momentum.

Maybe just the second part, I wanted to understand on the Hong Kong side of the business. I mean, yes, there's kind of like a rough guidance for double-digit growth across revenue to profit before tax. I'm just wondering if we can see some form of operating leverage throughout the year that will hopefully flow to a stronger profitability growth. And because we just looking back at the fourth quarter in terms of quarter-on-quarter trend as well, the contribution from Hong Kong kind of quite flat, although the revenue has grown quarter-on-quarter. So just wondering where do we see profitability today? And the second part of Hong Kong business on top of the pension scheme is on Macau. I'm just wondering what is the AUA we have seen so far and how far we think it can grow to for the Macau side of things?

Yes. On Hong Kong, if I take the -- yes, the ePension business, revenue been increasing because onboarding increases, then the revenue goes up accordingly as well. But this project is such a critical project because pension scheme of Hong Kong. And a big part of the effort along the way has been to ensure that there are sufficient resources that is put in to ensure that things -- the delivery of services are as smooth as possible. So along the way, the headcount has been ramped up quite substantially as well. And I would say that the headcount will probably be hitting the peak in the next couple of months. So all that additions in headcount lead to the increases in the operating expenses. yes, after ensuring that things are smooth, the delivery services are smooth and up to par and continue to improve on the processes, then I think as we get into the second half, there is some room for us to work on having better operational efficiency. Yes. So we mentioned double-digit growth, but I don't want to be guiding for or shooting for a very huge number simply because our priority is to ensure that things are as efficient as possible. But I think you see the healthy Macau. Macau is something that just started I think, yes, the initial number is something like SGD 70 million we should see numbers.

Thanks for the questions. We have quite a few in the Q&A on Zoom. So maybe we'll just go for those questions. I think maybe I'll continue a bit on some of the things that I think Chung Chun has covered already. So I think on the ePension, any guidance on timing of operational optimization and when can we see the fruits of that effort? I think Chung Chun has covered a bit of that. The other related question was how much of the contract has already been recognized with regard to the ePension?

I think the communications that we have made on the ePension project, yes, I think we have mentioned it's a 7-year contract, right? So we do know the full extent of revenue, and we have been phasing out the revenue aligned with, I guess, the work being done, right? And I think a lot of the work has actually -- we're sort of increasing the efforts of the business, as I think you've heard from Chung Chun earlier, where we have onboarded the largest trustees, and we're now at the tail end of the onboarding. And I think we've also mentioned that even after the trustees are onboarded, right, there's still a lot of operational work to be done because that's where I think we'll get to a point where 100% of the MPF scheme is actually administered on that platform and work done by us. So those are the things we've communicated. In terms of the exact percentage of how much of the contract has been -- we have recognized so far, I don't think we are able to then communicate because that would have some implications in terms of how you see the -- our -- I guess, the next couple of years of revenue. So we'd like to not have to say anything about that. But I think in terms of the revenue profile, then we can say that it's sort of aligned, right, with the level of work being done, which, as you know, is at a pretty high level at this point of time. Thank you.

We also have a few questions from [ Kelvin-san ]. So [ Kelvin ] wrote congrats on the great results. So thanks for that. And he has 3 questions. So I think first, why was there a big Q-on-Q jump in U.K. earnings despite flat revenue? Was it because the bank cut back on social media marketing?

Yes. I think for U.K., the increase in profit despite relatively flat revenue, partly also because of the cost. I think earlier part of the year, we over-recognized local [indiscernible] cost. And yes, when we get to the fourth quarter, then we release the numbers. So that sort of lead to some of the profitability numbers.

[ Kelvin's ] other question. Can you elaborate on the new services mentioned on Slide 48, which is for the U.K. commentary, which will help U.K. deposits accelerate in first Q 2026. I think we wrote, yes, from first Q 2026. So that's one question. The other one was why was net inflow lower Q-on-Q in 4Q? Was it mainly because of lower bank deposits?

Yes. So regarding the net inflow -- you're talking about net inflow for the group is it?

That's right, yes.

Net inflow for the group was I would say the bank deposit side is not the big part of the change because the group number is actually a much bigger number. But on a net basis, the net inflow was lower, I would say, mainly because there's probably a bit more redemption by customer. Gross inflow was actually very strong. But when the markets are high -- are rising, sometimes you also see a tendency for some investors to take some profit. So that lead to some increases in redemption. But on an overall net inflow basis, it continues to be very healthy, almost $1 billion. And of course, the overall AUA actually quite -- the first part of the question was on the new services for the U.K. market. New services for U.K. market. In January, we rolled out the services called BACS. BACS is basically a service that allow the customers in the bank customers in U.K. to basically be able to make the monthly bill payments, et cetera, for utility, et cetera, a lot more easily. I think in Singapore, I think the bank a bit of a gyro, but I think something that payment is a bit more in a batch way where once you sign up for that service a whole chunk of your monthly payment can actually come on to that. So that's a service that before this wasn't in place, but that's actually now in place. That includes, I think, some of your monthly salary that you're actually getting. So you can actually start to directly credit the salary onto the iGB more convenient. And so that is a gyro in Singapore happening or that service is being introduced and more U.K. customers who actually use us and use us as a primary bank account as well that happen that we expect that the inflow from the U.K. resident will actually start to improve. We are also in the midst of preparing to launch some additional service that will help us to with the global payment services. As you are aware, the majority of customers are actually nonresidents of U.K. So for them, they give money in iGB account. As of today, not all of them are able to enjoy the convenience of payment in the other countries that I think an important part of the vision that we have as a group that we have for iFAST Global Bank has been that one bank account in iGB, leave money there, but you can actually spend around the world. That's been an important part of the vision that we actually have. Today, that can happen only to some extent. The full service is not really rolled out yet, but we are in the process of rolling out this additional service that will allow customers to leave money iGB but make payments in various countries around the world. We -- yes, we will give further detail in the next 2 months as we roll out service but that's expected to be one of the additional service that will have as a driver for the overall business of iGB as well. The other comment I'd like to make as well regarding the last 6 months as well is that along the way, actually interest rate environment changes. As interest rate environment changes, we actually find that yes, there's some money that actually move in or out and some of those changes happen. And also in the past 1 year, there's been some gradual reduction in the global interest rate environment for U.S. or U.K. And our deposit rate over the last 1 year as well, there's been some gradual downward shift. So as some of these things happen and some of the older deposits that is some that was renewed and so on. So in the short term, that may lead to some additional outflow. But of course, we are watching the situation all the time and then we respond with some tweaks in interest rates accordingly. So tweak interest rate as well as additional services are some of the things that we do on an ongoing basis. So that will help ensure that we can continue to grow. But on an immediate basis, on a quarterly basis, then sometimes some of lots of momentum in the overall deposit growth. So that's basically some of the effect that we actually see.

We have a couple of analysts in the Zoom Q&A who have raised hands as well. So we'll start with Jayden from Macquarie.

Well done on a good fourth quarter result. I just wanted to ask a little bit about the guidance. I think you mentioned that you're looking at sort of a CAGR of 25% in the AUA to hit the $100 billion. And then we've said that we think that the dividends will grow by at least 25% in 2026. So is there any sort of view on the payout ratio because that would suggest that earnings, AUA sort of grow at the same rate -- how are you sort of thinking about that? And if there's any further operating leverage because you also highlighted that the ROE has been expanding because the top line has been growing strong. So I just want to sort of understand this view on the guidance a little bit better as a starting point.

Yes. Yes. So the AUA guidance, yes, we have mentioned about $100 billion. So we are basically working out mathematically to show what the percentage is in order for us to achieve $100 billion by 2030, and that number is actually 2 to hit that. So we feel that with good execution, we should be able to achieve that. So that's part of the reason. And then for 2026, yes, the dividend, there's a guidance on the expected dividend payout. So we said $0.105 or better. In the sense that also reflects our expectation on further increases in profitability for the group. The payout ratio for us, I think, in recent time, I've been talking about a number of 25% to 30% that we're comfortable with. I think over time, as our balance sheet gets bigger, we think that we can go higher than that number. But at this point in time, we have the ambition that we have for the bank in terms of the growth, we want to see we're still at a stage where we want a lot more growth. So as far as dividend payout is concerned, we are basically just balancing some of this thinking. One part is we do want to increase the dividend payout. The other part is we have big ambitions. So we want to have enough retained earnings within the group. And so on a shorter-term basis, payout ratio of 25% to 30% is something we are comfortable with, right? As we go forward in the years ahead, then we can look at increasing but on an EBITDA basis, we're not assuming a big increase in payout ratio.

Yes. I guess what it means is that if you're looking at 25% growth in dividends and the same payout ratio, you're sort of telling us that earnings are going to grow at 25%, right? Am I reading that correctly?

We are -- technically, we're not exactly seeing that. But I suppose, internally, we are shooting for those kind of quantum in terms of potential growth.

Yes. And if I could just ask maybe a couple more questions, just 2 more. The first is, so if we say that we're going to have this growth in the AUA, we go from $32 billion to $40 billion, let's say, it's 25%. How much would come from ORSO? How much would come from the organic business? And is Macau sort of recognized as AUA? Or is it like the MPF in Hong Kong?

Yes. we expect that -- yes, also assuming it does happen by second half that can potentially add 7% to the growth rate, right, for AA. So that will actually help the overall growth number for 2026. 2026 growth in AUA quite a robust number. Yes, of course, having said that, yes, I just want to also mention that this is our current target in terms of having that being rolled off in the second half. In terms of timing, sometimes there are some dependence on the need to ensure the overall efficiency of the whole ePension business. But at this point is the current target.

And just my final question, which is related to this. If we do get this ORSO contract and we add 6% to 7%, is that going to be sort of supported by the existing cost base? Or would we see an additional step-up in the OpEx sort of similar to what we had with ePension?

There will be some increase in cost, but it won't be too big an increase. I think we already have some existing costs that is actually supporting this. So on -- in terms of overall increase in cost, it should not be too much.

Thanks, Jayden. And now we'll move to Aakash who raised hand from UBS.

Congratulations on a strong year. So I think the first question is just if you go back to the early days when you started talking about ePension, I think you had said that after the ramp-up phase is complete, the revenue for the business should largely remain flat for the remaining years of the project or it should probably increase by inflation is what you had said, right, irrespective of any other factors like AUA or other things. Just wanted to check if that expectation is still in place. That's the first question.

Yes. So I think that statement is true when we go into 2027 and subsequent few years. But for 2026 because if you look at it on a quarterly basis, it has been that significant ramp-up in the revenue and so on. So on an overall year basis, then it should go beyond the single digit. It should go into double digits. But once you get to 2027, then that statement by single digit and will be true for ePension business excluding the part of the business, right? So if you take and Macau, then that will add on to the ePension business. So we hope that, that can then add on overall growth in revenue and profitability in 2027.

Great. That's very clear. That's helpful. Secondly, on -- so more specifically on 2026, I understand that the growth rate would be higher for this business. Is it simply because -- sorry, let me rework. So the Q4 revenue that we saw for ePension, is it fair to assume that would be the run rate for 2026? And then we can try and calculate what sort of increases double-digit growth we see. Is that a fair expectation for 2026?

I think -- yes, on the revenue side, I think probably that can be taken as a bit of probably a logical way of looking at it. I think so if you think in terms of the output and the work done and we have already onboarded the largest trustees going to the first quarter of 2026, right? So I think in terms of trying to justify a much higher level of work done from that point, I think it will be quite difficult from a revenue recognition perspective. But I think that being said, I think we also talked a bit about the optimization of expenses and so on. So I think we have already heard earlier Chung Chun mentioned that that's not a priority, at least for the first half of 2026, right, where we are focused on getting the job done well, right? And then probably in the second half, I think that's what we said earlier, right? That's where we can potentially look at some optimization and probably the benefits will then be seen further out over the next, I guess, 2027 and so on.

Okay. Understood. That's very clear. Sorry, just on this one, do you have any updated thoughts on what is the likelihood of this project getting extended after the 7 or the 10-year term expires?

Yes. I think it's too soon for us to be commenting on this at this stage.

Okay. Very clear. One more question, sorry. So just from the net inflows that seems to have obviously stepped up quite significantly in 2025. Now if you just look at the broader landscape, the banks have obviously been seeing billions and billions of dollars in wealth management inflows. I'm just wondering if that segment, which is the family offices, is that also benefiting you? Or if yes, then what is the portion of this inflow coming from that family office segment? Or is it still very much your traditional customer base, which is largely individuals, right, whether we look at B2B or B2C?

We're seeing some benefit from the family office segment, but I would say that, that isn't really the core segment for us. I think our client base tend to be a lot more spread.

Makes sense. And sorry, if I may ask just one last question, a quick one. So on payments, you talked about starting to offer more services. I'm just trying to think if -- is this mainly to facilitate your customers in your core geographies? Or is it going to be a bigger, fuller service like Revolut or Wise? And do you see any increase in expenses because of this investment?

Yes. So the thinking about payment is that -- 2 areas. One, we want to be able to help the customer move money cross-border easily. That's important for this global digital banking and wealth management model that we're actually talking about. So moving money cross-border, that's one part. The other part is we want them to retain their money with us, whether we have the bank or the wealth management platform. And as they do so, we want to be able to allow them to use that money to spend, right, in the various countries that they're in. So that is the other part of actually the thinking for us. As we roll out the payment business further, there will be some increases in revenue for us. At the same time, there will be some increases in cost. I would say that the payment business on its own on it on meaning, if we just try to look at it as a payment business on its own, then I would say it's not exactly an easy business because it is an area that many players have been competing in. So if we look at the on its own payment business on its own, then trying to really make it a highly profitable business, is not necessarily so easy. But in our case, because we see it as part of a complementary service for the digital banking and wealth management platform, then that improved the picture substantially, both in terms of the ability to scale up these services as well as in terms of the overall business economics of this part of the business. Yes. So I see it as something that will help us to increase the revenue overall. It also will help us as an overall group to increase our overall profitability. But if I look at it in terms of the pure payment part of the services, then yes, it may not be something that will lead to a huge increase on it.

Next question, we'll move to [ Benjamin ].

Financial Alliance, how does all fit into this truly global business model? And is the strategy going forward to the small financial advisory firms to boost this model alone?

I would say that is not so linked to this global business model, especially on financial alignment. Perhaps I talk about our thinking on this acquisition -- proposed acquisition of a 30% stake in Financial Alliance. This part is very much about the B2B business that we have in Singapore. Yes, actually, traditionally, we do -- we have invested in some other FA firms in Singapore as well. We basically take a minority stake. But actually, there are quite a number of different companies are actually there. But increasingly, the thinking now really is we want to mainly focus on having a stake in a company that will be one of the bigger company, especially one that has a potential to become a listed company. So it is a vision that ourselves as well as financial alliance themselves to potentially become the first listed FFO in Singapore. From our point of view as a platform, we -- what we want to see is a thriving industry, industry where the financial advisory firms are able to grow well, they're able to try. So we have gotten to the stage where I think you do see some consolidation in the market because I think you have KKR actually came in to buy [indiscernible] and so on. So there's some consolidation. But at the same time, of course, there are also quite a number of new companies that get created. So as we look ahead in the next few years, we feel that one of the scenario that will actually emerge is that there could be, say, 2 big FA firms, right, that actually may emerge, one of whom could be could become a listed company, perhaps supported by. At the same time, there still be a lot of other FA firm, but we think that there could be -- there are 2, 3 big FA company that actually merged. So we basically want to be playing our part to help company like financial alliance achieve their dream of a much bigger business of becoming a listed FA firm that has much bigger long-term potential. So that is the broad thinking that we should have. I think at this point in time, the business is still mainly local, I would say, financial lines. So we talk about truly global business model, I tend to refer to the various other parts of the business, not specifically on the financial lines.

Thank you, Benjamin. And we still have a few questions in the Q&A on Zoom. So I think [ Ryan ], he had 3 questions. One of it is related to the one that Benjamin just asked on FA Corp. So we'll just move to his other questions. What gives you confidence in tripling AUA in just a few years? I think you alluded to a bit of that.

Yes. So tripling look scary, but if you just think in terms of the CAGR is 25.6%. So I think that with what we have been planning for the expansion of the ecosystem and so on, we feel that with good execution, I think it can be reached.

The third question from [ Ryan Mitch ] was on the tax rate. So tax rate was lower than expected in 4Q and the full year 2025. What caused this? And should we expect the effective tax rate or what should we expect from that effective tax rate going forward?

Yes. So I'll answer this one. So in the fourth quarter, yes, we actually have a deferred tax asset recognized at the bank, right? So I think this comment as well inside Section 8 of the financials. So I mean, for background, the bank when we acquired it had, I think, in excess of, I believe, the number is more than GBP 40 million of losses. right? So these are past losses and the tax rules allow us to then offset this against future profit. So I think the bank has just turned profitable. So the bank has recognized a small deferred tax asset of -- from that amount. So I think just to be clear, the GBP 40 million of losses then translates to something like a 25% tax rate, about GBP 11-plus million of deferred tax assets that can be recognized.

On the topic of U.K., just add on to that. So in terms of what was recognized in 4Q, it is GBP 1 million.

Yes. So we recognized GBP 1.08 million.

In 2026, we expect that there will be some of that benefit that will actually be seen as well. The exact amount we from now on an EBITDA basis, maybe you can think of that similar amount spread over the year '26. At this point in time, maybe there's some guidance in how to look at that.

Okay. From [ Regi ]. So we have a question on U.K. So the iGB, the iFAST Global Bank deposits hardly grew in 4Q. So why? And also has the bank been more successful in attracting new customers since the launch of the multicurrency account and the debit card that the bank launched in March of last year.

Yes. So in terms of the deposit number, I explained earlier that in 3Q and 4Q last year, the deposit number slowed -- the deposit growth actually slowed for a couple of reasons. One is, I think some movement back on to investment into the wealth management platform. That's one. Two will be actually changes in interest rate environment. So changes in interest rate environment because along the way, there are some sudden changes in interest rate environment, including in Hong Kong dollar [indiscernible]. So some of this led to some short-term movement in deposit number in as well as out. There's also the fact that yes, for whole year, actually, the deposit rates have actually been declining because interest rates generally have been declining. So as that happened, then sometimes in the short term and some of the original fixed deposits, et cetera, mature, there are some that doesn't get renewed and so on. So that lead to actually some changes in yes, in the deposit growth. But of course, as all these things are happening, then we're always reviewing and clicking what needs to be done in terms of interest rates, et cetera. And that will -- that together with the additional services that we are rolling out as well as that we will be rolling up that will help us to ensure that the growth momentum will come back. But on an immediate basis, in some of the quarterly number that you see some of this loss of momentum. I think that should be the way to look at this routine.

I take a pause and see if there are further questions from our analysts and investors here. [indiscernible].

So moving back to the spoke about supporting one of the bigger will there be any plans to increase that stake from 30% to a bit more moving forward in the next couple of years?

We don't rule out the possibility of some increases in the stake or changes in the stake. And the reason is because I think AI Corp themselves so they also have an ambitious plan. They want to grow further. It is possible that along the way, they may want to make some acquisition of other firms on their own and so on. And as they do so, they may participation from us, for instance. And as we do so, then yes, it's possible that our investment in the entity can increase. Yes, so that should be the way to look at it. But the intention is that, that will remain a minority stake.

Okay. And going back to the Zoom Q&A. So Ling, I had this question, but I think Chung Chun and Terence have kind of answered. So we'll move to the next question from Andrea. So asking a bit more about Hong Kong also. So she would like to ask if there are any updates to share on contract wins and how many have been clinched and how many more in the pipeline? And how can we think about sizing and pricing of each contract?

Yes. I think there are a number of ongoing discussions and potential wins in the pipeline and so on. But nothing very chunky that we are ready to announce. But in the meantime, of course, if you look at Macau, it is something that's additional that has started and that actually is growing in the current year. Macau itself is also looking to introduce -- to make the pension scheme [indiscernible] I think in probably a couple of years' time. And as that happens, we expect that the opportunity for Macau will be increasing. And yes, since we have started rolling out services there, I think we're well positioned to be able to write on more of the group. The Hong Kong side as well, of course, is a big existing market. And we expect that there will be more additional contract wins along the way. At the appropriate time, yes, then we will update accordingly.

We have a question from [ Susan ]. So thanks for her comments as well on the results. So could we get some color on which region is the driver of the high net inflows?

I think Singapore is the biggest contributor.

Last couple of questions, at least from the Q&A in Zoom. So I think we'll go to [ Kim Chuan ]. So truly global business model, any consideration of secondary listing in Hong Kong or London?

On an immediate basis, we don't have any consideration for secondary listing for Hong Kong or London all then we'll be making inquiries about the global listing that SGX has announced in terms of whether existing company can consider and things like that. That's pretty much where things are, but nothing firm or concrete. But I think if we do want a secondary listing, we feel that we should go for the biggest and most liquid. Otherwise, may not really make sense.

Yes. And one question from [ Benjamin ]. What does putting FSM Singapore and FSM Hong Kong under one umbrella, which is the FSM Global that Chung Chun talked about. What does that mean in practice?

In one umbrella. You're talking about Hong Kong and Singapore?

Yes, Hong Kong and Singapore.

Okay. It's not exactly one umbrella. It's still 2 separate jurisdiction. It's just that for both Singapore and Hong Kong, it's just calling FSM. We want to use the term FSM Global. It's really to better send the message that targeting global clients. In terms of the legal structure, it doesn't actually change. we are renaming that repositioning that for Hong Kong and Singapore because these are 2 top financial centers and it's very suitable for us to use these 2 centers to target global customers. We are, at this point, not doing so for FSM Malaysia because for Malaysia, I think the focus will still be more on Malaysia -- so that's the thinking.

Sorry, a related question. I mean, aside from just changing the name, you could talk a bit more -- does that mean that new features will be added? What's the investment cost?

I think the call really is the additional message, additional services, additional marketing to this new group of potential clients. So I was actually mentioning that when we launched a iFAST Global Bank, we get a lot of majority actually non U.K. resident in terms of client because we are talking to the nonresident. But I suppose the way we have been conducting our business for this year in Singapore and Hong Kong. We are talking to them essentially at the back of the team of the mind of our people, we are assuming they're talking to Singapore or Hong Kong. I think when you're not talking to the global clients more directly than the growth from this group of client isn't as good. Yes. So in practice, what that means is there will be more messages, that directly communicate to the nonresident clients in terms of what they need to do with opening account with us, they invest with us different languages, for instance. I think we do have our Chinese website, but I think it's time for us to upgrade some of those things as well. In fact, it's not just Chinese, it's actually multi-languages. U.K., we actually are able to support many different languages. But in Singapore, as of today, we only have Chinese and Singapore and English. And even then, I think we haven't done as well as we should be. So languages, the message to the nonresident who are not as familiar with the payment to pay in Singapore, but we have IQ are more directed to them, et cetera, and the different marketing activities that reach out to the global customers better. So these are in practice the bigger difference.

Also ask a follow-up question. I mean in terms of customer acquisition, is there room to improve or sort of lower the friction in terms of customer sign-ups to global bank? At the moment, it seems like it's quite a tedious process global bank [indiscernible].

For sure, there's room to improve and it's an ongoing effort. I think we do know that when it comes to signing up customers who are not local customer, right? The process typically doesn't look as efficient as local customer.

U.K., is it?

Yes, for U.K., let's say. So it's like in Singapore, right? Singapore has an opening account here, now can use pass and then it will be done in 5, 10 minutes. So in U.K., there are some of this improvement kind of consideration. But if you are flying from other country, then the collection of information and so on tend to be something that takes sort of a longer time. But it's an ongoing process for us to try to keep improving the processes for the account opening for different parts of it. I think we are making some steady progress and so on, but certainly quite a number of areas still to improve.

Thanks for your questions, [ Lee ]. So any more questions from anybody? If not, we'll wrap up this quarter's results. So thank you for your attendance, and happy Lunar New Year in advance to everybody, and happy Valentine's Day, I suppose.

Thank you.