ikeGPS Group Limited (IKE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[indiscernible] and good afternoon. On behalf of the Board, management and staff of IKE, thank you for attending our 2024 Annual Meeting. My name is Alex Knowles, and I'm the Board Chair of ikeGPS. We welcome you as online participants through our virtual meeting platform provided by our share registrar MUFG corporate markets. A special welcome also to the many new shareholders who have joined Ike since our last AGM. We note that you can vote and ask questions online, encourage you to do so. I'll provide you with further instructions as we progress through the meeting. If you encounter any issues, please refer to the virtual meeting guide or you can phone the helpline on 0800-200-220 from New Zealand or 1-800-990-363 if you are calling from Australia. I would encourage you to send through your questions as soon as you can. This will allow us to answer these questions at the appropriate time. In the meeting today, we have Fred Lax, Independent Director. Mark Ratcliffe, Independent Director; and Glenn Milnes, Managing Director and CEO. Also present today is Brian, our CFO, and our representatives of our '24 auditors, Grant Thornton. Ladies and gentlemen, with the introductions out of the way, let us move on to the formal part of the meeting. I will make some opening remarks and then our Managing Director and CEO, Glenn Milnes, will present and outline some of the performance highlights of the year. After that, the resolutions that are before you today will be put forward. Covering the formalities of this meeting, the company's constitution prescribes a quorum requirement of three shareholders. I can confirm that this requirement has been met. Proxies have been appointed for the purposes of this meeting. in respect to 30 million shares, representing over 18.8% of the total number of shares. I'd like to thank shareholders for their level of participation in today's meeting. My fellow directors and I intend to vote all discretionary proxies as we've received in favor of resolutions 1 through 4, as set out in the notice of meeting. Voting on all resolutions in today's meeting will be conducted by way of poll. You will have the opportunities to ask questions -- actually, how to ask a question, you will need to click ask a question within the online meeting platform to select what item is regarding in the drop-down window, type your question in and then submit. I encourage shareholders who are intending to send their questions through as soon as they can. The financial statements for the 12-month period to the 31st of March 2024, together with the auditor's report, are set out in the company's annual report. The annual report was made available on ikeGPS website on the first of July 2024. I would like to share with you a few thoughts I have covering the last year. As you know, my name is Alex Knowles. I'm the Chair of IKE, and I'm based in Los Angeles U.S.A. Through the '24 period, I was pleased to continue in the chair role, having been appointed in 2022. At this time, I would like again to introduce my fellow Board of Directors who are here with us today, being Fred Lax, Mark Ratcliffe, Rick Christie, who I will get to in a minute, Glenn Mills. On to the company's performance. The 2024 financial year marked another significant period for IKE. A year in which we continue to grow our subscription footprint and made meaningful strides in developing, launching and selling new products to some of the largest utilities in the North American market. We won 59 new subscription customers in the U.S. market over the past year, continuing a win rate for approximately one new customer per week. That said, the '24 period was also a year-on-year reduction in revenue from our lower-margin transaction revenue that occurred. A 61% reduction versus PCP was due to the '23 period being -- having outsized activity from certain national communication customers. For context, this was up 191% from the 2022 levels. Our 3-year transaction revenue, CAGR or growth rate is 47% and based on guidance from these long-term customers, we expect transaction volumes and associated revenue to build further into financial year '25. In terms of financial performance, we reported revenue of $21.1 million, with approximately 89% of this revenue coming from recurring subscriptions and recurring transaction sources. Our gross margin was $12.7 million with a net loss of $15 million. Our balance sheet remains strong with cash and receivables position of $15.4 and no debt. Momentum across the business is robust. Quarter 4 of financial year '24 and quarter 1 of financial year '25 to date have been strong periods at IKE, with more significant subscription contracts closed with Tier 1 North American utility customers that will substantially grow our financial year '25 subscription revenue run rates. At the time of writing this, includes adding more than 3,900 additional subscribers to our new IKE platform. Since its release in quarter 3 of financial year '24. The total contract value in closing has exceeded $12 million for mostly Tier 1 electric utilities in the U.S. market. In total, 47 customers have subscribed to the platform, of which 28 were existing customers and 19 are new. We expect further new customers to close in the near term, and IKE platform will ultimately be the standard for structural analysis of 8 of the 10 largest electric utilities in the United States. We have a number of examples of these subscriptions. A couple I will mention, this also can be seen in the availability of all of this report at the end of this meeting. An agreement with the second largest electric utility group in North America for a 5-year term, a large U.S. electrical utility, signed a 3-year subscription contract, representing a fivefold increase in annual recurring revenue with this customer versus our previous legacy product. Another 3-year subscription contract from a major East Coast U.S. utility, which is a Fortune 500 company has chosen to use IKE PoleForeman. A 3-year subscription contract with a Fortune 150 company, 1 of the 10 largest investor-owned utilities in the U.S.A., upgrading to -- from IKE's legacy platform to our new IKE Pole PoleForeman structure. We expect to retain and grow these recurring revenues, generating accounts for the long term. From a team perspective, we are pleased to add several new North American industry experts. People joining IKE in the financial year '24 include Roz Buick as Non-Executive Director; Brian as our Chief Financial Officer; Ani as our Chief Marketing Officer; and Brett as our SVP of Product. Each of their profiles are detailed further in this report. We would also like to extend a very special thanks to Rick Christi who resigned from our Board this year. Rick was IKE's Chairman from its earlier stage and has been very instrumental in all aspects of IKE's growth over the past decade or so. So thank you, Rick. Looking to the financial year '25 outlook. Subscription revenue is expected to grow strongly this year at 40% or greater versus PCP to $15 million per annum or greater. This outlook is based on the ongoing growth in the core IKE Office Pro subscription product, which has seen a 30% CAGR over the past 3 years and with 95% customer retention. It is also based on the success of the launch of the new IKE PoleForeman product is detailed above with more than $12 million of TCV closed since quarter 3 launch and an active subscriber base in excess of 3,900 users. Transaction revenue in financial year '25 is expected to grow, but with a wider range of potential growth profiles and as such, represents higher risk, both upside and downside. Transaction growth at IKE over the last 3 years has grown at a 45% CAGR through financial year '24 year levels. That were down against 2023 due to the outsized customer activity that occurred. Based on guidance, and from long-term customers, we expect transaction volumes and associated revenue to build in financial year '25. Overall, we closed $27 million of contracts in financial year '24 against approximately $21 million of recognized revenue. Our customer retention rate is excellent at approximately 95% and our sales pipeline for new business is strong and is growing. As a reminder of our business model, IKE generates additive transactional revenue on top of subscriber revenue from some customers as they engineer more network assets in our system. Our margin profile improved to 60% in financial year '24 from 53% in financial year '23 due to the continued shift in the product mix through higher-margin subscription revenue. We expect this trend to continue into financial '25 with the growth in our subscription revenue outpacing other segments, resulting in a material improvement in market margins again in financial year '25. During the second half of financial year '24, we also reduced our cost profile to maintain the time frame towards both EBITDA and cash positive operations. As consistently stated, management and the Board remain cognizant of the importance of maintaining a strong balance sheet position, executing against immediate revenue growth opportunities whilst retaining the ability to manage costs appropriately. Financial year '25 is also an exciting period for IKE in terms of introduction of our new AI-based automation capabilities into existing products and new products. IKE has significantly invested into building automation that is specific to distribution network workflows, and we look forward to putting this into our customers' hands in the near term. Macro market tailwinds across North America remain supportive of the productive -- products that IKE delivers. Driven by the forecasted $300 billion investment by electric utilities into building and maintaining distribution power network capacity and associated network hardening. To meet carbon Zero Net targets in the U.S. by 2050, analysts forecast that approximately 50% of the energy in the U.S.A. needs to be on the electric grid from a position of just 20% today. Overall analysts forecast the CapEx and OpEx spend across distribution networks in the U.S. market will increase by in greater than 4% annually for the next decade. Further, the multiyear investments made into building overhead fiber and 5G networks is increasing and is enormous. IKE's products drive productivity and support of these network engineering and capacity activities. We extend our thanks to our shareholders for your support and the belief in our vision as we continue to innovate and grow. We do so with the confidence that we're building something valuable together. Thank you. I'd like to now turn it over to Glenn to give CEO's presentation.

Thank you, Alex, and thanks, everyone, for taking the time to meet today and to get an update. So Brendan, if you are able to just confirm that we're sharing the PowerPoint docs. And what I'd like to do is to run you through a current view of how we are tracking. In particular, looking at market and market trends, some customer adoption trends, some products specific to IKE in terms of productivity tools and how we're feeling about the year that we're in and the periods that are ahead. So assuming everyone can see these slides, please first take note of this important notice in terms of the documents we're about to look at. What I wanted to do is just touch on Q1 financial performance. We're close to the end of Q2. business continues to track and grow really strongly. So we're pleased with where we are. There's probably a few key takeaways, I think, from today's discussion. The major 1 is we're building a subscription software business in the U.S. electric utility market. So I'm based here in Colorado in the United States. Our core team this year. We've got a team of just under 100 people, we're addressing the biggest power companies and the biggest telecommunication companies in North America and also their engineering companies. It takes a bit of patience and a sense of humor to sell into this market. These are brilliant people and brilliant companies doing a very important thing in terms of power distribution and we're trying to help the mission. We're seeing really strong growth in terms of our subscription revenue backbone. So this just keeps growing. It's over 40% CAGR over the last 3 years, 4 years, 5 years. We expect that will continue to grow at these kind of rates. And you can see the -- here, we have started talking about our exit run rate of platform subscription revenue. Again, think of these customers, if we do a good job, we keep these customers for decades. They are sticky, sticky customers. They take some time to make platform software decisions. But once we have them, if we do a good job, we keep them forever. And you can kind of see our exit run rate continuing to really accelerate. We don't see any reason that will stop. Again, as we've continued to move the business towards pure SaaS, as you think about in many other industries, we're tracking seat count. So the number of engineers that subscribe to the software, that's growing super fast. It's not a complete apples-to-apples comparison because we launched the next-generation IKE PoleForeman product, which I can show you with some pictures shortly, But again, we just see this really profound acceleration in terms of engineers that are using IKE software every day for network design. Alex touched on this next item, which is around the transaction revenue in our business. So when we go and sell to a customer, they subscribe to our products and our software. Some of them want more help in terms of the work that they're doing inside our software platform. And we call this transaction revenue. It's the number of poles that we help customers to process. So it's a really important business model for parts of the industry. And we had this massive spike in 2023, but the medium-term and long-term trends are extremely solid. And we're seeing -- we haven't lost any of these big customers. They kind of ebb and flow in terms of their volume. But we see this as an important add-on in terms of what we do in terms of customer success. So this is now trending very much back up and to the right. And then more generally, looking at the key thing here, the blue bar in this chart is subscription revenue. The green part is transaction revenue that we talked about. And then the orange piece is hardware and services and other revenues. So again, a really healthy compound growth rate of 30-plus percent and gross margins increased through this year. It's 70% or greater from 60% the prior year, et cetera. So higher-quality products, better pricing, based on brand and customer experience. So we've got good overall trends and feeling optimistic about the future. I'll just buzz through this. This is the table we publish every quarter. These are kind of the key economic engine drivers for IKE. So you can sort of see how we think about the business. internally, more than 400 subscription customers today, including 8 of the 10 biggest utilities and many of the biggest communications companies. So I promised to go extremely quickly through some of these following slides. But I did, again, just want to reiterate a, how we think about IKE in differentiation because differentiation is what makes us a long-term partner for the customers that we serve. And then I think even more importantly for shareholders and investors is trying to reemphasize just what a massive market opportunity that we address here in North America. We're a small company. We're serving the biggest infrastructure groups in the world. But the demand for what we do in terms of productivity is growing. So we have three software products that help an electric utility, plan, assess, digitize and then maintain their power network. And we're talking about residential distribution assets that sort of deliver power to businesses and homes. There's a big hurricane coming into Florida at the moment. We help networks to be strong and keep the power on, keep people safe and then we help communications companies just get their fiber networks delivered much faster at a much higher standard. That's the mission that we support. The picture here is of a failed distribution power asset. And -- you can kind of see the -- here the power infrastructure sits at the top of this poll. And everything down below is cable TV and fiber and telecom services, et cetera, Again, we help these electric utilities just design a much more resilient and much higher capacity network. And Alex touched on this. The North American market has to more than double the amount of capacity going into the electrical grid over the next 20 to 30 years. This is a huge problem. And we help an element of this process in terms of letting utilities design things and build and engineer their assets in a much more effective way. And I know that just having me down in Australia recently, like this is a topic that's on a lot of people's minds in Australia, rewiring the nation, again, grid resilience, grid capacity. It's a really big issue, and we're sort of lucky to be part of this process. And you can see these are billions of dollars in terms of what's being invested into grid resiliency and grid expansion in North America. It's really important as technology company to be in the right market at the right time, and we feel fortunate to certainly be in that space at the moment. And again, just trying to paint the picture of how large the North American landscape is. This is a map of the 106 investor-owned utilities that operate across North America and keep the lights on for a lot of the bigger urban centers. And then if you drill down further, there's another 3,000 municipalities and co-ops, power companies that are supporting smaller towns and smaller centers. And they've all got the same problems that we can support. So while we're close to 500 enterprise customers now here in the USA, we haven't even scratched the surface in terms of just the size of this market. And yes, as I say, takes some patience, but we're now the standard 8 of the 10 largest investor-owned utilities in the U.S. in terms of distribution design. It really matters because it means that we are central to standards, engineering, but groups like all of Exelon, all of Southern Company, Duke Energy, Florida Power & Light. It's a list now that we're -- of customers that we're very proud to support. And it gives us an amazing growth opportunity as we land and then expand inside customers from a sales standpoint, which means you get a footprint in one part of the utility. And then you've got the opportunity to sell more products into other groups. And that's the strategy that we follow. The other industry problem we solve is deploying fiber. Comms companies are in a rush to get fiber on to overhead assets and get their networks built, probably another 5 years of market tailwinds sitting behind the North American fiber market, it's a bit different to other parts of the world, but more than 200 communications companies now competing with one another to just go as fast as they can in terms of network deployment, and we helped speed up that process dramatically. And just such a lot of investment to come over the next 5-plus years in terms of the fiber market. So again, lucky to be in the right place at the right time in terms of the North American fiber landscape. And some examples here of some of our customers that we serve, AT&T, it's the world's largest communications company. Crown Castle, they are the biggest shared infrastructure group in North America and a whole bunch of other communications groups. Some more data here. I won't spend too much time on this in terms of the market, the addressable market. It's very significant, and it's growing, and it's not going to stop for the next decade or 2. Again, another industry trend, which is a tailwind for us is just the amount of energy capacity that needs to go on to the distribution grid by 2050 to hit these carbon Net-Zero targets also to power the electric vehicle market, everything that's happening with solar and people putting energy back into the grid. It's a really vibrant space, and it requires innovation, it requires technology. There's an aging workforce there. There aren't enough people. There's a requirement for products and technology to help, which is where we fit. And a map view here, again, just graphically to sort of show how our software gets used in practice. This is the -- this is Florida. Just a snapshot of how Crown Castle is using IKE's software for each of these dots presents a network design. And then with AT&T, again, across seven states in North America, standardizing on IKE in terms of how they build their poles. So I promise to go fast, and I will try to do from here. We've invested significantly into technology and into new products. And the key takeaway for -- I think, for our shareholders is we start -- we're really seeing the payback from those investments. So the product you're looking at here is called IKE PoleForeman. It's the design software that's being used by many of the biggest utilities in the country now. It's a beautiful product. We launched it at the start of this year. We've sold through -- we're close to $15 million of contracts now through this calendar year. And these customers are sticky, and we just see an opportunity to just keep growing and growing this particular product. So yes, we're really excited about where the differentiation of this product takes us. There's two other competitors in the market that we compete against, and we think we've got something to truly disrupt those other two players. The other thing that we've invested in is artificial intelligence. So being able to automate and analyze lots and lots and lots of network data. So whole of power network data information for a whole state, for example. So we've brought these products to market through this quarter. Again, all about driving productivity and quality and safety for the various groups. There's a bit of detail here around the specifics of what we do. We automate joint use ticketing. This is how comms companies and engineering companies and utilities all coordinate with each other. About who's using what on an asset. So it's a really manual labor-intensive process today, which we have automated. And other things, again, it's really specific sort of technical electric utility applications, but this is around -- they call it double wood records or twin pole or sister pole records. There's like 10 million assets in North America that are joint poles. I'll show you a photo here down the bottom. We've got pole transfers, et cetera, again, providing utilities with a whole of network lens into where they have double wood or sister pole situations. Because they can be the very weakest and most vulnerable point in a power network that utilities are trying to manage. Last thing that we invested in, just thinking about what's developed. Since we last met through the AGM format, we acquired a training and education business called Marne & Associates. And the really exciting thing about this as we bring to life education around complying with the National Electric Safety Code for example here. And doing that, we're able to put IKE into the market as a thought leader, as an educator. We've already trained thousands and thousands of engineers on some of these topics, but it's obviously also a great way for us to be in front of them and talk about technology and products and earn their trust. So a bit more detail there around the products. As a business headquartered in Colorado, United States, targeting the North American market landscape, we sell and we deliver directly. We employ experts that understand how to design, maintain and build distribution networks. So we've got a pretty fabulous group, people. We're lucky to have such a talented team. And we focus really hard on customer experience outcomes and building the best brand in our industry. Also really pleased to add some very talented people into the leadership group through this year. Rick -- sorry, Alex commented on these folks, Ross Buick, who is up for election through the resolution process today. Based here in North America, she ran the Oracle Utilities business until very recently. So we're very pleased to have her on board. Alex talked to Ani, Brett and Brian. And multiple avenues for growth as we look ahead in terms of just expanding our sales engine. We were winning a new customer every week. We're tracking ahead of that this year so far. We can upsell and cross-sell our products. We're looking at international markets. And we feel that potentially are some M&A opportunities as well to bolt-on great technology, but where there's perhaps an opportunity to improve sales, marketing, brand pricing, et cetera. And so with that, I will pause there, Alex, back to you.

Thank you, Glenn. We've now reached the point where we can open the floor and any questions after the CEO's presentation can be answered. Our CFO, Brian will aggregate the questions that he's receiving online, and we'll read them out to the meeting. We will also seek to address questions submitted prior to the meeting. If we do run short of time and we are unable to answer your question today, we will endeavor to respond to you after the meeting their e-mail. Brian, are there any questions received from shareholders.

No, there are no questions from shareholders at this time, Alex.

Well, I'm not sure whether that's good or bad, but I'll take it as positive. In the absence of no questions, we will proceed forward to the formal part of the meeting where we address the resolutions that we have outlined in the Notice of Meeting. You may ask questions on each matter being put to the shareholders through the virtual meeting website. Please note, we will only be able to ask a question after you have been registered as a shareholder. Now moving to the resolutions. I propose to call a poll on each of these resolutions. As mentioned, Shareholders will be able to cast their vote using the electronic voting card received when online registration is validated. To vote, you will need to click Get Voting Card within the online meeting platform. You will be asked to enter your shareholder or proxy number to validate. Please then mark your voting card in the way you wish to vote by clicking for, against or abstain on the voting card. Once you've made your selection, please click submit vote on the bottom of the card to lodge your vote. Please refer to the virtual meeting guide or use the help line specified if you require assistance. Voting will remain open until 5 minutes after the conclusion of this meeting. The results of the vote on each resolution will be announced on NZX and ASX after the meeting. Each resolution set out in the notice of meeting is to be considered as an ordinary resolution, and as such, must be approved by a simple majority of the votes cast by shareholders entitled to vote and voting on the resolution. Let's move to the first resolution. This motion concerns the fixing of the auditor's remuneration and the Board's shareholder approval that the directors be authorized to fix remuneration. Brian, are there any questions on this resolution?

Yes. there are no questions on this matter from the shareholders.

Okay. Thank you for that. Can you now make your selection by selecting either for, against or abstain on the voting card. We will give a pause to allow the voting to proceed. [Voting]

Moving to the resolution of the election of Roz Buick, in accordance with the NZX Listing Rule 2.7.1, a director appointed by the Board must not hold office without reelection past the next annual meeting following the director's appointment. Accordingly, Roz Buick is required to retire, having been appointed by the Board in November 2023, being eligible, Roz Buick has offered a soft for election. The Board considers that Rossbach will be an independent director for the purposes of the NZX listing rules if elected to the Board. The Board unanimously supports the election of Ross. We will now play a video presentation from Roz Buick, who is unfortunately unable to join us today.

Hello, everyone, and thank you for this opportunity to be considered for the IKE Board. I'm both honored and excited to work with the management team and Board to support IKE's pivotal strategies towards delivering more software for information management, analytics and automation in the power and communication network sector. I've had 30 years of leading technology businesses, both building innovative product with synchronized go-to-market strategies across hardware, software, SaaS data analytics, IoT systems and services in a variety of vertical markets, particularly engineering and construction segments over the past 17 years. I love working on technology and process innovation to disrupt markets, ensuring there is product market segment fit and designing the synergistic go-to-market models with key strategic partners that all help scale up the business faster. I've been very fortunate to experience a number of scaling challenges that I believe will be helpful to IKE's journey. First, as a senior leader at NASDAQ listed Trimble Inc., formerly Trimble Navigation, and more recently at NASDAQ-listed Oracle, Inc. In their construction and engineering business unit also interfacing to the utilities business. As a General Manager, I grew a Trimble Global business unit over 8 years from $100 million to $400 million in Senior Vice President roles across Trimble and Oracle, I've successfully tackled the transition from on-premise to SaaS subscription software and analytics in their software business. In the past 8 years, I've been designing strategy and leading business teams to execute around cloud-based network effect software platforms, where oftentimes multiple key acquisitions have to come together to shift the industry to transformative customer workflows while driving significant business efficiencies. So thank you again for this opportunity to be considered for the Board and working with the IKE team.

This is opportunity now for any questions to the Board concerning Roz's election to the Board. Brian, do we have any questions?

We do not have any questions on this matter.

Thank you, Brian. Accordingly, it's now time to vote. Can you please select either or against or abstain for resolution 2 on the voting card. I will make a pause for the voting to occur. [Voting]

We come to resolution 3, the reelection of Fred Lax in accordance with NZX Listing Rule 2.7.1, a director must not hold office without reelection past the third annual meeting following the director's appointment or 3 years, whichever is longer. Accordingly, Fred Lax being eligible as of himself or very election. The Board considers that Fred will be an independent director for the purpose of the NZX listing rules, if reelected to the Board. The Board unanimously supports the election of Fred. Fred will now speak to his reelection.

Well, good afternoon, good morning to everybody. I'd like to add my welcome to everybody at today's meeting, and I'm pleased to run for reelection to the IKE board. I have a lot of experience, 30 years in the telecom industry, both in the U.S. as well as beyond. And I was CEO of a $1 billion company listed on the NASDAQ. I'm very comfortable working with the IKE leadership team. I have a lot of confidence from them and I believe in our strategic plan. As Chair of the Audit and Risk Committee, I believe we have an excellent and strong relationship with the auditors at Grant Thornton. And I also serve on the Nominating and Remuneration Committee. So I'm going to leave it at that, and thank you. And again, I will welcome you to our meeting today.

Are there any questions for Fred or the Board concerning the motion concerning the reelection of Fred lax?

There are no questions on this matter from the shareholders.

Thank you, Brian. Please now select either for, against or abstain for resolution 3 on the voting card. I will pause to allow for voting to occur. [Voting]

We've now reached the point of resolution 4, the reelection of Mark Ratcliffe, in accordance with the NZX listing Rule 2.7.1, a director must not hold office without reelection past the third annual meeting following that director's appointment or 3 years, whichever is longer. Accordingly, Mark Ratcliffe being eligible, has offered himself for reelection. The Board considers that Mark will be an independent director for the purposes of the NZX listing wars if elected to the Board. The Board unanimously supports the reelection of Mark. Mark will now speak to his reelection.

Well, good afternoon, good morning to who are you, dependng on which part of the world you are in. I've been on the IKE Board for about 4 years now, and I welcome the opportunity to continue as a Director. I am the Chair of the Remuneration Committee, and I'm also on the Audit and Risk Committee. I had a long career in telecommunications in New Zealand. with Telecom New Zealand now Spark and the Founding Managing Director and CEO of Chorus. And I would welcome the opportunity to continue in the role of Independent Director of ikeGPS.

Are there any questions for Mark, while the Board concerning the motion for his reelection.

There are no questions on this matter from shareholders.

Thank you, Brian. Accordingly, please now select either for, against or abstain for resolution 4 on your voting card. I will pause for the voting to occur. [Voting]

Before we close this meeting, I'd like to provide the opportunity for shareholders to raise any further questions. whether related to the presentations, the financial statements or the management of the company. Brian, are there any questions received?

Yes. The first question would be for Glenn, from Kaushik Patel, are we confident like that you are likely to be cash positive with no further need for equity raises?

Yes. Yes is the answer. We have an opportunity to just grow a really large business in the space. And we're fortunate to have a very strong value to we feel we're in a super strong place in terms of managing and balancing growth and the objective to be cash and EBITDA positive.

And one more question, also for Glenn. This question comes from Matthew Chen. Do you have any major competitors in the U.S. market?

Yes, we do. We've got three different software products, and we compete with different players depending on whether we're addressing network planning. If we're addressing network design and digitization or if we're doing resilience and engineering build-outs. And they vary between products from some smaller players right through to the very biggest technology companies that operate in this space. So I think GE Energy, Schneider Electric, Oracle, Siemens, et cetera. So yes, it's -- there are competitors for everything that we do. The biggest item for us is replacing status quo engineering practices. We address these amazing people and amazing companies that are very, very good at what they do, but they're using old-fashioned work practices in some cases. And that's very hard to replace at times.

There are no further questions from shareholders.

Thank you very much, Brian. If there's no further questions, we will be bringing this meeting to a close. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attendance and engagement today. We'll be announcing the results of the voting on NZX and ASX later this afternoon, and thank you for all involved to put this meeting together and make it happen. With that, now I will end the meeting.