Intellect Design Arena Limited (INTELLECT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[indiscernible] The investor presentation and press release have been sent to all of you and is also available on our website. Our leadership team is present on the call to discuss the results. We have with us today Mr. Arun Jain, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Venkat Saranu, CFO; Mr. Manish Maakan, CEO of iGTB; Mr. Rajesh Saxena, CEO of iGCB; Mr. Banesh Prabhu, CEO of iSEEC; and beside them, there are many other senior members of our leadership team. We also have Mr. Prabal Basu Roy. He's adviser to Arun. Mr. Arun Jain would first brief you on the strategy of the company and their respective CEOs will update you on their line of business. The CFO also will brief you on the financial aspect. This will be followed by Q&A, which will be replied by the senior members of our management team. On safe harbor, I would like to remind you that anything which we say, which refers to our outlook for the future, is a forward-looking statement. This must be read in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. With this, I request Mr. Arun Jain to give his brief on the results. Over to you, Arun?

Yes. Good evening to everyone who is joining, and welcome all the members of Intellect team who are participating in it. We started this journey of Intellect 5 years back, especially 4 years back, when I sold off my stake at Polaris in 2016. So this is just almost 4 years, 1 quarter. So this is around 17th quarter since I fully spend time on Intellect and Intellect driving the agenda of making a product company coming out of India. The first phase was Intellect product engineering stage. Last 2 years, we started Intellect 2.0 journey. At 2.0 journey, we defined the first part of the journey was industrialization of our product and implementations and internal processes of our company. And second pass was customer centricity and monetization. So last 2 years, we spent substantial time until December on industrialization. Post December, January onwards as soon as we begin we are focused on monetization and customer centricity. Today, I am proud to say that we have this quarter, which we visualized multiple years back that April to June quarter, when we are starting that 2021 will be the year of monetization phase. I think the first quarter results shows and demonstrate our monetization phase. Now we haven't fully -- put the presentation there. Can you put the presentation? So with fully mature products that are comprehensive in their complete user journeys, architecturally superior and lean and agile implementation, Intellect begins monetization phase, which was envisioned in 2017. So I think we are fortunate to have the same momentum over the last 3 years of Intellect 2.0. Who is presenting the slides? Praveen? Praveen, who is presenting the slides, please? Just hold on for the slides just coming up. Praveen, who is presenting the slides?

[ Navin ] is putting it -- just 1 minute.

Let me continue my journey on the talk until the -- the presentation deck is coming up. So what is -- we took a full strategy was how do we run 4 units in 4 different area focused on retail banking, corporate banking, capital market and insurance? And how do we create a multi-product scenario to mitigate the risk of few businesses, a few product companies move positive or differently? So sometimes their cycles are the product in a fintech market, which goes up and down. We wanted to take an approach of full multiproduct fintech platform. Move to the Slide #4. So this -- currently, we are a future-ready multiproduct fintech platform. That is the first approach. Second is it's a high operating leverage global play. That's what we -- and embarked on that now at this point of time, we are -- costs are fully bundled in. Our costs are, over the last 4 quarters, are coming down because of the maturity of the product and the implementation cycle time of the product. And then third thing is we led the movement from design thinking with an -- with an efficient innovation cycles, where we could able to move the product at a cost of close to INR 40 crore. We moved almost all the products on cloud where R&D cost, which was INR 33 crores per quarter or INR 32 crores per year, we brought it down to INR 92 crores currently. Move to next slide. These are the -- multiple Investor Day call that we should be doing 20% EBITDA. We should be effective operating cash flow positive 2020. And we will not be raising capital, which was -- people felt that we need to raise capital because our debt was increasing quarter-on-quarter. So all these 3 things are being kept. As of now, we have a positive cash balance in that company. And we are able to deliver 20% EBITDA of INR 71 crore [ or INR 349 crore ] revenue. Next. So these are the bullet points. I would like to say that we have a -- this quarter alone, we were able to generate INR 1.78 billion cash positive -- operating cash positive. And along with that, we were able to launch item a breakthrough technology for API-based digital transformation for banks, and this also we launched with IBM. And in this quarter, we happen to be #1 in retail banking and #1 in wholesale banking by IBS annual league table 2020. That is a validation of our exploration and our positioning in the marketplace. At this point in time, I want to celebrate all the employees, all the partners, all the advisers, the Board, the executive committee. The amount of dedication and commitment they put together has created the #1 position, #1 position in any segment of the product when we aspired. There were a lot of doubters that can we sustain and can we build up a franchise, which will be highly respected, not in Asia Pacific or Middle East markets, but for the advanced market, whether Australia, Americas, Europe, Singapore, all these places. That was the biggest challenge. I think I must celebrate every employee who has participated with that kind of a zeal and commitment for making India map flying high on the global map. I have structured my conversation with you on 4 blocks. First block is during COVID-19, I think we need -- we recognize this issue way back in 9th of March when our executive team sat down together to understand what are the major issues during COVID-19. We worked on it that the cash should be the king during this issue. And look at it, what projects are there in various point of time in the journey so that we can build our customer and collect as much as possible. And that's -- we are the -- we were able to collect $57.8 million in this single quarter, much higher than our average inflow during the last 4 quarters. On second dimension, we ensure our cost structures are aligned with the repeatable revenues. So that's our next thing, which is 2.1. 2.2, we look at effective operating cash flow positive, to bring the company back to the operating cash flow profit positive. Last 5 years, we had a negative operating cash flow. This is the first quarter to 5 years, we come to the operating cash flow positive. That was a major milestone for all of us to celebrate here. Then our acceptance in -- acceptance in advanced market in terms of analysts, when they talk about it. And fourth is what the monetization means for the investor going forward. Let's go to Chapter #1, stability in COVID times. These are the numbers. Our effective operating cash flow at INR 1.78 billion after deducting INR 270 million for product capitalization. Otherwise, it was INR 203 crore versus INR 178 crore. Collected 436 -- INR 4.365 million (sic) [ billion ], which is $58 million. DSO obviously came down from 150 days to 126 days. Our cash in the bank stands at INR 1.918 billion. During this period, our focus on customer, it's not that it was not there earlier, but I think this time, we decided that -- COVID-19 that new deals may take longer time. Banks may not decide a new vendor without meeting him personally face-to-face though we closed some deals. But if we have a complete portfolio of the product and that portfolio product can be used for customer mining. We continue to meet customers. I think our teams are more busy than they were in office, including Saturdays. They conducted many workshop sessions during this entire period. And then we moved on assured revenue streams, which can give us a proper growth. Move to next. The cost structure, if you look at it, our implementation cycle and efforts have reduced by 30% due to application of design thinking in processes as well as product design. So our products have been designed where our cycle time, instead of 12 months implementation cycle time by our competitor, we are efficient by 30%. We are able to implement them in 8 months' time -- 8 to 9 months' time, and that is helping us in winning more deals as well as our cost of implementation is coming down. Our license realization is higher than the implementation revenue when we started the company. Our license was 1/3, and our implementation was 2/3. Now our license and implementation are close to equal or implementation is lower than their license value. So with license revenue being higher, we are able to have a cumulative value of 20% AMC to be higher because of this implementation cycle to be improved. Our sales and marketing investment, which we started somewhere close to 40% plus, now it's coming down to 24% where SG&A costs have come down. The third lever is R&D cost. Our total research and engineering and product cost, we planned INR 120 crore for product capitalization. Last year, we did INR 110 crore of capitalization. So we have capped within the limit of the product development cost. This quarter is INR 27 crore of product development cost being capitalized and INR 23 crore of R&D cost, so it comes down to INR 50 crore versus INR 62 crore capitalization costs last year, same quarter. So almost we save INR 48 crore year-on-year basis on R&D cost, the INR 50 crore saving coming from R&D. So with this, our pre EBITDA cost came down to INR 278 crore or INR 2.79 billion against INR 331 -- so INR 3.3 billion last year. So it's close to a INR 200 crore effective reduction. In this INR 200 crore, some costs have been saved because of travel has been reduced in this quarter. So travel and business development costs, which should have been higher, that has been reduced in this quarter. So -- which has further savings, but close to INR 160 crore to INR 170 crore is the cost optimization company has achieved in last 1 year without compromising on any of the processes or go-to-market strategies of the company. So this is not a cost-cutting exercise. This is an efficiency building exercise of reducing the implementation cycle, efficient sales cycle and efficient R&D. All the 3 pillars we have reduced by bringing design thinking in practices. Next. This is a -- I've spoken in the beginning itself. IBS league table coming in 2 categories. I think we are the only company in the world, which may be in 2 categories, number one. This brings our sales and marketing costs slightly lower because we start receiving some of the full RFPs because of this ranking from Europe and America. And the magic quadrant positioning is also very, very important in [indiscernible] for IDC. Besides, GTB products are in magic quadrant for quite some time. IDC is now taking that kind of advantage in the ranking. So we generally get 50 reports from various analysts during the year. For product business, this analyst provide the market permission for me to enter into advanced market. So our products are so beautifully written. We have almost 50 reports per year. We are able to get our products listed down. Next, monetization. Monetization principle is our assured revenue. Cloud revenue grew by 67%, which is in the same line as what I talked last quarter. So we are able to run 2 engine, 1 license engine and cloud engine together. And this, we identified some time in -- we spoke to you in 2018 December that cloud is accelerating in banking space. Till that time, the cloud was not coming in. And that's why we accelerated our investment in cloud migration, around INR 40 crores, because of which last year numbers were not looking good from an EBITDA perspective. So now we can say that we have -- our investment was in line so -- because cloud revenues are growing at 67%. Our gross margin has moved from 47% to 54%. SG&A cost is down from 32% to 24%. R&D cost from INR 630 million to INR 499 million. And AMC also grew 24% -- healthy growth of AMC of 24%. Our estimate was around 18% to be AMC growth. This certain completion of the project resulted into better AMC growth of 24% this quarter. Next. At this point time, I would like to give it to Saranu, who will speak the number. But I think we are in that stage in our journey, which I would ask later on after Saranu, I'll ask Prabal to give you the perspective from connecting the dots that how it can be in terms of future relief company. Obviously, during this journey, we have issues. We are cautiously watching the market. A lot of banks in the world are not positive. We are booking huge losses in Europe, and we had to keep a watch on all the banking sector. Our only positive thing is we have 200 clients who are -- whom we are working with, and they need more solution and more digital solution with us. And we have a good pipeline of digital healthy pipeline of digital proposals, which was being mature over the last 3 years, which are coming to some closure. But we don't know what's going to happen in the next 6 months. This Corona is definitely a point of concern. So I want to not to be overbullish about it, but we are positive about it, about our business. Over to Saranu.

Thank you, Arun. Good evening to everybody. Yes. Next slide. Next. Yes. We have reported revenue -- total revenue in terms of INR is concerned, INR 3.4 billion. In terms of dollar is concerned, $46.04 million. We're happy to inform you that our license revenue is INR 605 million, a growth of 9% on a Y-on-Y basis. In term of -- AMC revenue is concerned there, it is INR 741 million, which registered a growth of 24% on a year-on-year comparable basis. Cloud revenue, we reported INR 389 million, registering a growth of 67% on a year-on-year growth basis. As Arun rightly said there, [ on ] various measures and steps taken by the company, our gross margins grew from 47% to 54% in the current quarter. Similar, we are happy to inform that our EBITDA for the quarter is INR 713 million as compared to INR 40 million in the previous -- same period of last year. Our net profit is INR 426 million as against INR 34 million in the same quarter of last year. As Arun rightly said that in the current quarter, we have collected good money from our customers. As a result, our effective operating cash flow is INR 1.7 billion. So this is good money, what we have shown in terms of operating cash flow is concerned that. Our cash and cash equivalents are INR 1.9 billion as of 30th June 2020. Our total debt has been reduced as compared to the previous -- as compared to 31st March 2020 by INR 1.2 billion. Our term loan is INR 624 million as of 30th June 2020. Next slide, please. As we talked in the quarter, in the current quarter, we collected INR 4.3 billion cash. Our net debtor days as of June 30 is 126 days as compared to 150 days as of 31st March 2020. Our investment product development for the quarter is INR 269 million. As well our order backlog as of [ 30th April ] INR 11.56 billion. These are the important financial highlights to consider.

Continue [ please ].

Yes. Next slide, please. This we already talked in terms of various important highlights in the previous slides. Next slide. This can be seen that how our AMC revenue trend has been increasing over a period of time. So starting from INR 1,445 million to INR 2,528 million over a period of time. So as we can see that, our AMC revenue has been increasing quarter-after-quarter, year-after-year. Next slide, please. Next slide. Yes. As I said that [ debtor ] days as of 30th June, 126 days, as compared to 150 days of the last -- as of 31st March. However, we have very detail collection across the geography as well across the various -- collection as with the debtor days. Next slide. We all talked about that in terms of our order book in terms of INR 11.56 billion. SaaS and subscription is INR 9.5 billion. Our repeated revenue from the existing customers stood at 93% for the Q1 -- after Q1. Next slide. Next slide.

[ Is in pipeline you can speak in ].

Yes. Sorry. Would it be next slide? Our pipeline as of 30th June is INR 530 million. It has improved as compared to previous periods. There are various details in terms of how many deals we won, how many deals we lost as of 30th June. Next slide. This is a currency wise revenue mix as we can see here is that 23% of the revenue come from GBP, 8% from CAD and INR is 13% and USD is 43%, EU (sic) [ EUR ] is 4%, others have construed 8%. Once again we have given our business from the -- various geography in terms of advance market and growth market. As we can see that our business from advance market is 61% as of 30th June 2020. Yes. Arun, over to you. This is the financial highlights for the quarter.

Yes. Thank you, Saranu. So we have Manish and Rajesh and Banesh. All 3 are there. I welcome Banesh, who has joined and leading the monetization phase of data and insurance business. Banesh comes with a senior global responsibilities in multinational bank like Citibank for long period of time. And then Thailand, he was member of the executive committee. And now at this phase of life of data, which is becoming more pervasive, we wanted new leadership for monetization perspective. So as we look at it, 4 businesses, 2018/'19 was a -- where GTB become the key driver for our business; '19/'20, GCB has taken shape; and '20/'21 is where we are looking data and insurance to take a lead; and '21/'22 is a RTM. That's how we are calibrating and working on the model. So Banesh has taken that responsibility for this year for insurance and data business. And we're welcoming Banesh. Banesh, If you want to share a few words with the investor, how do you see the data role in the overall journey?

Yes. Thank you, Arun. I think -- hello to everyone. I think my sort of building with this company has been there for a long time. So I'm really happy to be a part of the management team. What is interesting about the insurance and the data monetization business is that it is actually targeted to what I think is the most important part of the evolution of technology that we are seeing today. Data is going to be widely important, and we all recognize that. And we've built a capability on our platform of a data fabric that is used right now for some insurance businesses and is in the right stage of scaling up, not just for insurance, but for all our product lines. And we are actually going to look at how we can take data and leverage it more efficiently across the various businesses and various geographies around the world for financial institutions. So happy to be a part of the opportunity here. The good thing about this business is that it's got cloud focus. It's completely architected in an open architecture sense going forward. And I think what's interesting is that we are seeing a lot of ability for us to be able to use the data to help risk analysis and to reach out to customers very efficiently, proactively rather than customers coming to banks. And I think this platform that we've built on the Intellect SEEC platform, I think, is really geared very, very effectively going forward for business opportunities. So it's been -- I've been working with the consumer businesses in advising Arun and the CEO of the consumer business, the GCB business as we call it. And we've seen a lot of movement taking place in all of these areas in our product lines. And I think the good thing is that we have now reached a stage where all our businesses are very -- are completely ready from a cloud perspective. We've seen some really good results in this quarter. But I think the best is still to come. Thank you, Arun.

Thank you, Banesh. Just to give you focus that we took some nontraditional approach to build the Intellect business. We took America market for AI and machine learning, one of the most difficult market. After crossing 10 customers in America for data business, now is the time to scale it up because it got tested in the most demanding market. Once it is tested in the most demanding market, the most demanding customer for the data accuracy, it's the time for taking to Australia market. We took a second market in Australia market where data market started. And then we will be taking one by one market-by-market for data. At this point of time, I'd like to give it to Prabal, the perspective since he is advising me from last 4 years. So I just wanted to pick up his -- how he's looking at the overall piece.

Yes. Thank you, Arun. Thanks very much. Are you able to hear me?

Yes.

Okay. Good. All right. So ladies and gentlemen, good evening. I have met actually most of you in our investor conferences, either jointly or in small groups. And the first thing I would like to do is to thank all of you personally for keeping the fit on the company during the steep fall in stock prices due to COVID. The very fact that you are here is testimony to that. So thank you very much. I don't have a regular presentation so I'll take this [ extend for ] and link up to all the things that we had discussed at various points in the last few years. So as you would recollect, even during the most difficult times last year, we had made 3 specific commitments to you. One, no further cash raise will be required post September 18; the movement of EBITDA from about 5% to an exit EBITDA of 20% by March 2020; and operating cash flow positive by June 2020, which is quarter 1 of FY '21 from minus INR 250 crores and minus INR 120 crores in the previous 2 years. Now these are the 3 specific commitments we made. And with hindsight, of course, as they say, the vision is 2020, and it's very easy to say. But as Warren Buffett has said, the rear-view mirror is always clearer than the windshield. And we had made these commitments during the time when things were not very clear. However, that tells us 1 more sort of saying, which is very favorite to me from Warren Buffett again, which says that the risk comes from not knowing what you're doing. In other words, if we know what we are doing, the risk is limited. Of course, there's a risk of the environment at all points in time. But if we know what we are doing, the risk is limited. And that is the point I would like to leave you with that despite all these difficult times, you have stood by us, you have listened to our story and you have believed in us. And I think now the results are there for us to see. So during the COVID times, which took the entire world by surprise, of course, including us, the key management priority at that time -- in these times was effectively to reorient the organization, basically with the objective of fortifying the balance sheet and positive cash flows. This is -- this has been the only mantra for success for most companies. And in our case, we did that. I'll explain in a minute how and then prepare the company for operating leverage play when the environment picks up. And all this when the environment picks up without a balance sheet risk. I think you'll understand this language much more than anybody else. So this was the management priority, which Arun spoke about in the month of March when COVID hit us. This is what we had to do. So what were the actions we took? The essential actions we took was to fundamentally -- let's say, fundamentally transition the company to a stable and profitable growth path, stable and profitable growth path through a process of cost reduction and cash conservation. These are the 2 basic priorities. And therefore, stabilize the balance sheet, as Venkat said. We have stabilized the balance sheet, and there's been a sustainable cost structure reduction. And this is important because the cost structure, which we have done, which we now have, is aligned to assure repeatable nonlicense revenue stream, which, in our case, means implementation revenue, as you very well know, of about $20 million, $25 million at a minimum; and subscription and AMC revenues, which is roughly about $15 million to $20 million, let's say. So roughly about $40 million is, you can say, assured repeatable nonlicense revenue streams. And the cost structure of the company has now been aligned to that. So therefore, you understand anything which comes beyond this in terms of license or any other form of revenue goes straight to the bottom line. And hence, the operating leverage play, which Arun spoke about earlier in this presentation. So that is what we have done and -- we have done in the last few months, which is fairly fundamental to the organization. So the net result of all these actions of word, that is there for you to see a positive effective cash flow of INR 178 crores; stability in the balance sheet with, I think, cash reserves of close to about INR 200 crores; a healthy pipeline; and, of course, recognition globally because that focus on technology and branding and products always remain. So this is where we are. And 1 last point, I think, which before -- I want to preempt that question, so I will sort of take a minute on that. This cost reduction, which has happened, it is not a one-off. It is a sustainable cost reduction process. And I think you must understand that it has happened because of not rampant headcount cutting or things of that nature. It has happened because of the significant industrialization of the products, which has been in progress for the last 2 years as part of Intellect 2.0. And this has resulted in implementation methodologies being more efficient, and reduced implementation times of cycle times and product defects. This is what we have done. So -- and there are various ways, which Arun and the others can talk to you if you are interested. But essentially, we shifted from put into configuration, deployment of low coating platforms and so on and so forth. So therefore, these are fundamental changes [ here ] and the impact of -- and you'll ask, how has all this happened? You have heard about -- we are speaking about design thinking in many of our conversations, right? So today, design thinking has percolated throughout the organization. And that is the sign of the maturity of design thinking across the organization. So therefore, it went into the execution teams, it is there in the R&D teams. And therefore, it's transformed actually Intellect from -- to an efficient innovation and delivery engine. So this is the way the cost has been reduced, and it will remain in that. I mean I just wanted to give you the comfort that these are not one-off things which have happened. These are very, very basic things, which were done for the organization. So therefore, in summary, I would sort of like you to think of Intellect from now on as a sort of innovation engine with 4 parts of the story. There are 4 parts of the story. One is the India technology play and India -- with the India cost advantage, of course, playing in the global fields. Second, it's got superior execution and a deep customer engagement with long-term [ commitments ] once a customer comes on board. Third, it's got a large product portfolio, which forms our future-ready multiproduct fintech platform, which we mentioned about. It is not a 1 product company, 1 product player company. And fourthly, the potential for newer monetization models like [ IT Americas ] is something we mentioned. There are many others, which will emerge over time. So it's a diversified, derisked, focused and untapped revenue for differential streams, which are possible in this organization. So that's the way I would like to look at at it at this stage, very much in line with many things we have discussed, but they're all coming sort of together at this stage. Thank you.

Thank you, Prabal. Praveen, we can answer the questions. All the management team is here. So yes.

Can you open? Now we are starting the Q&A. [Operator Instructions] Has it been unmuted?

Yes. You are unmuted, Praveen. And there are a couple of -- people have raised their hands. So just tell me the sequence and I can just allow them to talk.

[ See any hands there ].

Praveen, you can unmute here.

Okay. Fine.

Mohit Jain is there.

Can you hear me, sir?

Yes, sir. We can hear you, Mohit.

Okay. Sir, first is on the digital banking thing, we were hoping for some increase in pipeline because of the whole talk of moving to digital banks. That is not getting reflected into your funnel. So what are the offsetting segments there? And second is related to iGTB. How much is the revenue this quarter? Because I don't -- I think we missed it in the opening remarks, iGTB used to be our flagship segment. So how has that segment done for this particular quarter?

So the 2 questions on the digital side, the pipeline, I think this pipeline of...

Sir, can you be a little louder? I'm not able to hear you actually.

Okay. So the $500 million or $530 million pipeline [indiscernible] pipeline, I think we are not really looking to increase this pipeline substantially because the pipeline is sufficient for us to handle the capacity. So -- and is stable from last 6 to 7 quarters. GTB business, Manish, if you can just brief Mohit about the GTB business, that will be useful.

We had -- we closed the year very large -- 3 large deals. And our focus has been on the COVID times to nurture existing customers and existing wins are with now existing customers only. It's nurturing this and growing that. I think we've taken the individual line of business numbers overly from a CFO direction.

Okay. How much are you targeting for FY '21, broadly, like are we supposed to be flattish or marginally up now that you know most of the COVID part is broadly behind us?

The COVID part is behind us, Mohit, as of now. But I think still, the multiple cycles are coming in. So -- but what we are looking at is that consolidated numbers are now companies become mature. So we don't have to look at LOB-wise activities. So -- but obviously, we are looking for positive numbers from GTB to grow from last year to this year. So that's what we are targeting with the customer mining itself.

Okay.

Percentage, we cannot say right now.

So next in the line is Mr. Baidik Sarkar. I think Baidik is not there, looks like. Next is Mr. [ Nandan Vartak ].

Yes. Am I audible?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Thanks for the opportunity. So my question is on the side of iTurmeric product, which we have launched with the IBM platform. So what would be revenue potential of that specific product?

This is a large revenue potential with IBM on large deals, which on core banking migration and modernization. So the revenue for immediate year may not be substantial for coming next, say, 3, 4 quarters, you may not see any major revenue. But launch of this product was important because it's a big breakthrough, which enables our modernization of the platform of core banking or GTB, convenience or modernization and client who are adopting cloud technologies. It makes them accelerating their journey from mainframe to the cloud journey. So immediate numbers, we are not putting anything. These numbers will come visible to us maybe 6 quarters from now in a substantial manner, but not right now [ Nandan ] from a iTurmeric platform. So all these technology companies, we take almost 3 years for the product to become mature. When we launch our product, by the time it comes to the monetization model, it is a 3-year journey from that point of time. So what product we launch of IDC 17 has delivered in '20. So that's a cycle time. Data we had launched last year, and now it will take another this year and next year to -- data to take some shape in revenue terms. So from an education perspective to the investor, the product cycles for launching to revenue generation is a 3-year cycle.

Next is Mr. Baidik has come back.

A very strong quarter, congrats to you, Manish, and the entire team. A bookkeeping question. Clarification on the INR 1,200 crore order book that you've released. How much of this would be executable over the rest of the year? Because I see license is a part of this INR 1,156 crore order book, which is confusing, because we're given to understand that licenses are booked in the quarter in which you win them. So how does that work? And if you could just clarify how much of this is executable over the next 9 months?

It's not license, which is a part of it [indiscernible] there. It's AMC, which is part of it.

So AMC and subscriptions, I guess.

Yes. License is a long word I think license-based was -- so license-based means license becomes a critical part for the improvement...

So then if I can request you also, Manish, conventional license, as the environment is today, what is your visibility on the license stream? Because especially Q2 and 3 of last year were quite weakish on the license front. So how has Q2 progressed? Are you satisfied with the momentum in licenses? And what's the base case momentum that you expect over the next few quarters in license?

Manish?

I think, Baidik, focus is on nurturing with existing customers. We have a decent pipeline. So what we are trying to reduce the risk and reduce the unpredictableness, driving focus with existing customers, that's where we are as of now. I think one of the things, which we as a management team, all of us are driving is to keep EBITDA positive and cash positive and drive around those metrics, I think, to keep around that and deliver what we have with existing customers. That's the focus. As of now, the challenge is, is there are opportunities there, the things there, predictability of what we bring in, what we close in which quarter. We are in some advanced stages on a couple of deals. It's about getting that contract in case of the final challenge always. So I don't want to be pessimistic. I don't want to be optimistic. I'm going to remain open and see how we go through this journey. But growth is definitely -- as of now, as a management team, we do see us going from where we are.

Sure. No, but just given how Q2 has progressed, would you qualify yourself as being satisfied with how the momentum on license has played out this quarter and is expected to play out?

So Q1, we were not expecting any major licenses, given at least from a GTB, where Q4 was very large from a closure perspective. My Q2 is -- my alternate quarters end up being large. So I would see Q2 being better. So how much will we sign, how much will we close is that million dollar deal questions.

Then if I can probably then request Venkat to quantify how much the services business of your executable order book would be, because it's easy to prorate how much SaaS and AMC would be. Any comments on that, Venkat? I mean, so let me just rephrase that again. Out of the INR 1,156 crore in order book, how much of your services would you think would be executable over the next 3 quarters?

Yes. As of now, we don't give this published numbers on the 3 quarters of -- so Baidik. This is a total 18-month figure. So next 3 quarters immediately will not be available. So maybe...

But then -- so this INR 1,156 crore would be executable, I mean, what's the time line? I mean is this a 15-month order book, 18-month or...

Baidik, we take a Prabal view, which will be better Prabal says that $40 million is our cost and $40 million is our implementation plus AMC plus -- so if you take a simple number of INR 300 crore number, which is executable quarter-on-quarter, that is the good way for you to predict your future numbers.

Sure. That's interesting, Arun. And just one last question. Coming to your cost structure. Of course, Mr. Roy did mention that it's sustainable. But has Q1 seen the entire impact of restructuring? Or will that be visible only in Q2? And also on an absolute cost basis, are these numbers sustainable?

Yes. So this is where the INR 279 crore, which is there as a number, in which INR 7.5 crore is ESOP cost. So if you remove them, it comes to INR 272 crore. There is something called INR 10 crore to INR 15 crore quarterly cost was towards business development. That will not be sustainable post-COVID. But during the COVID period, when the travels are stopped, the international travels are stopped, that is an advantage we got around INR 10 crore to INR 12 crore. So that's a number fluctuation, which can happen from a number perspective, Baidik.

Yes. And Baidik, just to add to what Arun said, at some point, he mentioned that there's a INR 200 crore type of cost reduction, which we have seen. I think after they return to normal times, about INR 150 crores is something which you can more or less say will be a stable rate, so between INR 150 crore and INR 200 crore. INR 200 crore is what we have got now, but about, let's say, INR 150 crore or so, by and large, that is sustainable -- that will be sustainable.

That's helpful. And if you can just clarify the services part in closing before I get back to the queue, is there any portion in your IT services revenue segment, which is -- which would be a repeat business? Because I understand repeat comes under your SaaS and AMC. But within your services, would you classify anything as rupee?

We don't call services, customer-centric businesses there. So there's another good size of the business, which are where we have a committed services means committed support and hypercare support to the customer and partnership with the customers. And that business, we will quantify, but it should be close to $40 million, $45 million business will be on that repeat basis. Or $50 million business will be on that repeat basis, which is not a part of cloud revenue, which is not a part of the AMC revenue.

Okay. So could you just quantify the number again? Did you say INR 50 crore.

$40 million to $50 million number would be there, which is of that nature. For your calculation perspective, it's a simple calculation, to my mind, is a $40 million if it's a line number, then license and -- is a critical upswing, which could be there. Last quarter, we had a $9 million of prices -- $8.5 million prices. And that's what driven the number. If it is a -- if $46 million number generates EBITDA of INR 70 crore, that INR 71 crore EBITDA came from $46 million. Now future revenue what Prabal has mentioned, if it is a $50 million revenue, EBITDA can be much higher. Almost 90% of it will be the -- getting to the bottom line. So I think that is the other way of calculating what you want to. What your questions are arriving, I'm just simplifying your questions to see what the profits of the future quarter can be.

Rahul, you can unmute yourself and start taking.

Rahul Jain is our next...

Yes. So first of all, congratulation on a strong set of numbers and the IBS ranking, especially also congratulation on robust cash conversion. I would like to ask you, most of your confidence is coming from reaping the benefit of past wins and cost actions and AMC tailwind. Is this more about that right now? Or this is also led by some change in the environment that you also expect to see? Of course, timing, it would be tough in the current thought -- current mindset. But are we seeing anything meaningful changing in the post-pandemic world?

I think everybody is forecasting that 2 things are changing. One is digital is changing. Second, data is there. And for digital, banks are now more open to take a -- because this sitting at home for a few months together has forced the banker to think their businesses differently. And differently, banking business is nothing but digital. So whether our product suites, which are -- we invested in CBX and which we have taken a leadership in GTB, I think we are getting inquiries and proposals right now. So Manish is not able to commit whether those numbers will come forward, how much will come in next 2 quarters. But if you're looking at 3-quarter -- 3-year perspective, those products, which were written in IDC, the complete IDC, which is a digital IDC and #1 ranking on that particular product, those are going to significantly shift because of our ability to deliver on time and at a lower implementation cycle times. Both of them are favorable. So our -- Rajesh, I'll ask Rajesh to spend some time on saying how the GCB is performing and how they're seeing the traction. That will give you some direction on looking at it how the post-pandemic scenario we are looking at it, why we are changing. It's not just because of past action, these numbers are there. There is a fundamental shift in the company. And we also have spent some time in our working from home on reducing some of the unknown and bringing them on to the table to bring a better efficiency in the system. Rajesh, if you just share IDC and GCB perspective?

So let me try to answer Rahul's question also. I think, Rahul, the important part of this is that as our products have matured, and let me say, products and processes have matured, and we have got analysts to validated those rankings, we have got market permission, right? If I just look -- if I just put this in context for IDC, a couple of years back, IDC was playing maybe in Asia, maybe in India and maybe in Africa and Middle East, right? Europe markets and U.S. markets were kind of not -- the word I want to use is market permission was not there. So as we have gone in our product journey, as we've matured our processes, as we have built references, we talked about our reference, Santander, U.K. reference, as we have done that, we are certainly seeing market permission happening for us. We are seeing a lot of opportunities from a GCB perspective, right, and especially in Europe. We are chasing a couple of -- we are chasing some large digital bank, digital transformation deals in Europe. This was not there a couple of years back or a couple of quarters back. So the market permission is a very positive phenomena as far as IDC is concerned. The second piece I want to talk about is I think we've talked about IDC in the last couple of analyst calls. I think what's very promising from a GCB perspective is our central banking proposition, what we call as the quantum IDC, right, that is seeing a lot of momentum in the market. In fact, in quarter 1, we closed a very large central bank deal in Africa, a multimillion-dollar deal in Africa on central bank. So we are -- today, we have 10 central banks as our clients and we are in the last 2 stages of 2 more very large deals. So not only we are seeing IDC, we are seeing a huge momentum in QCBS. And the other piece that I want to talk about is lending. Lending also now we are seeing a huge momentum build-up in markets like Europe, et cetera. So we are -- from a GCB perspective, we are seeing aggressive growth opportunities as we go forward.

So just a small addition, incremental thought, which I wanted, of course -- I mean, we all know that you guys have done well in these markets and there is some of the large deals that you guys have signed. That definitely is going to be there. What my question, also want some clarity, is that is there a way people are thinking it differently? For example, if I have to draw very different analogy, like, for example, in retail, we are seeing so many stores getting closed, and incrementally, these retailers may invest only on digital channel, so do we see that kind of a thought process in some manner where banks would say there's no point having 1,000 branches because people would deal less and less physically and let's invest billions of dollars because you want more cross-selling to be done on the app? So something like that, a very tangent view, which somebody would take now, given the less travel, less physical world that we are in?

Sure. Let me answer that. So I think the first piece that we are definitely seeing, and this is across geography, across bank tiers is there is a lot of opportunity on the channel side, on the digital banking side. We are seeing that in -- whether it's Tier 1 bank, Tier 2, Tier 3 and across markets. So that's definitely happening. The second thing that we are also seeing, and we didn't get time to talk about it, but we will in the next meeting that we have is we are seeing the role of branch being changed, right? And we will be shortly -- Intellect will be shortly launching a new proposition, which we are going to call it as a digital branch sometime in the future -- near future, which we will talk about how the branch model for these banks are shifting and how we are seeing that pain point and how we are coming up with a proposition to address that changing scenario. So I think changes are happening on both ends.

Now in the next -- on the queue is Mr. Amit Chandra. Amit, you can ask your question.

So my question is related to the deal pipeline, so because if you can highlight how the deal pipeline has been in the last 2 months. Because the deal -- because the large deals that we have closed, so the presales activity for those deals would have started maybe 6 months back. So on -- and after that, in April, May, there was 0 activity on the ground. And also we have been traveling less and now it strictly has been the phenomenon across the world. So how do we see the order book? And like this is closing of large deals to plan in the next 6 months? And have we seen some increase in deal activity or engagement with the customers in the last 2 months? How it has shared? So if you can provide some color on that.

Amit, the response is that activities have not come down. I think the activities for the deal on the presale -- the for-sale -- not-for-sale, resale proposals, post-proposals, deal clarification, I think this activity has gone up rather than going down. Yes, traveling, now people have started accepting not a physical [indiscernible], and they are comfortable learning it through our workshop on the -- our 3-day workshop on defending the proposals. So for the closing cycle time, we are not sure of. But otherwise, the activity on the sales side has not come down. [indiscernible] salespeople building comes in the beginning. But today, they are finding more freer day, they are spending [indiscernible] earlier time when they were spending 1 visit with 3 days going in travel, 2 days going in travel. So that's the other message I want to say that in this space, [indiscernible] have not come down.

I know this change in behavior of the sales activity, so is it going to change when things become normal? Or is it going to become the new normal? And also my second question would be in terms of the cost savings that we have achieved, so we have done a very massive, massive cost cutting and it has been a very stringent exercise that we have done in the last, say, 6 months. So as far as I understand is that most of the sales and marketing cost and the R&D cost is the salary cost, because it's all about people there. So R&D is all about people, and sales and marketing is about salespeople and somewhat is a travel in that. So what specifically we have done in the last 6 months to cut the cost? Whether we have -- let's remove people, but as like Rahul said, that we have not done any headcount reduction. So what exactly we have done if you can highlight that we have done? Because without reducing the headcount, how we are able to achieve 18% Y-o-Y savings in cost. So that is, like, one thing which is alternating, which is not sustainable? Or either we have like cut down on the variable cost and once the deal activity has been picked up and we can increase it? So what is the mix of the fixed and the variable? And what was the head count a year back, and what is the headcount now? So if you can throw some light on that?

Yes. Amit, the purpose of Prabal mentioning headcount reduction, headcount has definitely reduced by 500 people. So there's a reduction of headcount. But this headcount reduction is not like a cutting the cost. This started from last June when the efficiency was coming in, and those teams that were getting redundant, those teams have gone out. And the actual attrition of our refill has not happened. So we have not gone in one big blow thing I want to cut 500 people. We did full end of the year. That has resulted into the cost savings. So that's one clarification that headcount reduction has happened, but it has happened based on the efficiency gain, not based on reducing cost.

Okay. So these 500 people would be around -- the people at the bottom of the pyramid or at the like...

All over from top to bottom, wherever we find those, we can give a more responsibility to people, once system got streamlined. One SVP can manage more portfolio, because the processes are much more streamlined. So we cut down from this cost from the top to bottom, all layers included.

And how has the variable cost change in the last 6 months? Or how is this variable? How you're paying out the variable policies to people and how it has changed now? Or how you're rewarding salespeople now?

We will pay similar to that. There's no change in this variable structure because the sales will be sales. So there are not many changes in the new modern system of sales. Only the plans, which we made earlier in the month of March, we said if we can achieve 90% of it, they will get 100% of the incentives.

Okay. So in terms of the variable pay structure, how we were actually doing earlier in terms of were we paying on a quarterly basis? Or we have shifted to half-yearly or yearly basis. Has there been any...

On the annual basis, there's no change. No change in fundamental things.

Okay. So I think the -- so the reduction in the cost is really encouraging. And if we see increasing the top line, then obviously, it will flow to the EBITDA and the bottom line. So that was the whole story more interesting. And my last question is on the Intellect piece. So now we have seen that -- we have seen a change in the management also. So we have a new CEO there. So how do you want to add the monetization portfolio, because we have been hearing the last 2, 3 years that we are going to get monetized, we can -- we have been doing pretty massive things there in terms of monetization of data on the insurance side. So what has changed there? And how do you want to see it in the next 1 year?

So I would say that monetization piece, which we planned 2021 only. So if you look at it, for data accuracy to become standard in any place where insurer will start trusting your data for the accuracy and start making underwriting decision, that was a point Pranav was currently highlighting that, that accuracy -- there's a difference between 90% equity data and 94% equity data. The 4% makes a huge difference in acceptance. Now this is a time when we have established all the data sources alignment, triangulation of the data. We have one large client in U.S. who has now pumped in. That client itself -- single client can give us a revenue of $3 million on buying the data. Data is sold on per transaction per corporate, let's say, $2 per corporate data or $3 per corporate data. The volume will multiply based on how many customers can consume that data and data package. So data packages are priced between $0.10, but data field to -- some full record up to $3, $4 per record. So if a bank is looking for assured monitoring of lending portfolio, they can buy the data, validate structured and uninstructed together. And that's why the role of Manish comes in because underwriting data is equally important for a bank and insurance companies for providing them a quality decision-making. So the revenue stream of data will start building it up. For the Indian investors, I would say, since this cost line has been settled at a $46 million with INR 70 crores EBITDA, I think that as a baseline. Anything more than that, if you are looking 90% can come to the bottom line is a safe assumption for you to look at the investors. And now you can bring other investors, also mutual fund, because it's a profitable company. It's not [indiscernible] cash management.

Amit, I would like to just make 2 quick points to what you asked. So in terms of the cost reduction part, Arun, of course, mentioned all the details. See, the one thing which we must understand is the significant investments we made in soft skills in the organization over the last 5 years. Now these things go unnoticed, but the result of that is for you to see. And this specific subscale I'm talking about is design thinking. So design thinking started -- was started a few years ago, and now it has percolated down to the lowest levels in the organization. So therefore, the effectiveness and the efficiency, which you see, the backfills which are not getting filled, which you see, is all a result of that, of people becoming more efficient because they're thinking outside the box. Now this is what has been a significant investment, which the company made from 2014, '15 onwards, which is now bearing results across the organization. So I think this is one impact of the maturity of design thinking is very important. And of course, the leadership programs, which go with that, within Oxford and Cambridge, et cetera, and all of that. The second point is what you mentioned about the monetization. We have consistently been saying to all investors [indiscernible] that the monetization cycle will begin from FY '21, which is end of Intellect 2.0. So Intellect 1.0 ended in FY '18, Intellect 2.0 ends in FY '21. And we said we'll start the monetization cycle with the mature products in FY '21. But the monetization levers, we have multiple monetization levers, as I explained to you, because of the multiproduct platform and so on and so forth. That phase will come in if I -- in Intellect 3.0, which, of course, when the plans are made, we'll share with you. But that will come in Intellect 3.0, which is FY '21 to FY '25, right? So that is the way to look at the monetization part of it.

The next in line is Mr. Dhruv Shah. Rohan, please unmute Mr. Dhruv Shah.

Yes. This is Nishid Shah. Congratulation, the entire Intellect team and Arun for fantastic numbers and especially in a tough time. You guys have really delivered. And my basic question was, probably 2 or 3, one is, when do we see the growth in GTB coming back, GTB, which has been our growth engine? And when do we see that becoming $200 million? And when do we see GCB crossing the $100 million milestone? And the insurance vertical, which is more SaaS revenue, cloud-based revenue, when do we see that becoming $100 million? This is especially in the context of what we saw in the industry recently that Majesco got acquired by more than 4x sales. Arun ji, you may want to address that portion also as to -- I mean they are all contemporary of yours. So some have left the field. Where do we see -- when do we see us becoming $500 million or $1 billion in revenue as a company?

Yes. I think, Nishid, I think these escalations are there for all us to look at it, and we are also working towards that agenda. The question is, at this point of time, in corona time, that we do more calibrated journey where we completely slow the cash burn. If you look at it, the growth journey, where do the cash come into and make the investments, I think there's a huge opportunity in front of us. But actual numbers, whether GCB become $100 million, obviously, GCB is looking for $100 million whether it's 3 years, whether it's 4 years, so it's 2 years or 4 years. So that journey will be there. GTB going up to $200 million, obviously, there are many product lines. But time cycles, we cannot be able to predict on those. The liquidity product is one of the leading product in the world with 23% of liquidity. The world is slow to our liquidity product, which is followed by digital and payments and followed by great trade and supply chain finance. There are 3 cycles of growth which happened in each of the product line. So GTB will drive first level revenue from liquidity, then digital and payments and then trade, supply and finance. So they are the 3 engines, which are running with each business. GCB is running the business from Quantum, then IDC and then lending. That's how the business is built. Insurance is for underwriting workstation and then data. That's how the business is built. RTM is on treasury and then moving towards custody and mutual funds and the LIBOR intervention in treasury business and then [indiscernible] business. All this business will start driving it. Now I think it's a question of being patient and being -- running in a very consistent and sustained way. So that will be a simple answer for you. And definitely, your wishes are with us to what you are looking for.

Also, if you can touch base on this Majesco deal, what's your thought on that?

We also believe that Intellect should be valued at least 10x the revenue. Whenever the Indian investor is ready to do that, 5 -- 4x, yes. Intellect as a product company, MNOs valued 10x revenue. 4x revenue is not something very good from that perspective. Any product company of our size, where there's 3 operating lever for profit generation, AMC lever of profit generation, cloud lever of operating lever, all the jobs are open. How many businesses in the world where the 3 jobs are available to open on the profit side. So it's a question of when Indian investor will recognize that there is a product company has now taken shape out of India and trust product company better than a service company where the jobs get shrinked; over here, the jobs get opened up. So that's the message. But 4x is not a big number here for a product company to valuate.

No, I agree on that. And I also believe that you have a lot of that, especially GTB, GCB, and it is endorsed by the outside rating agencies as far as our product capabilities are concerned. And as you rightly mentioned, as we see cash coming in and market sees the demonstration of that, that we are cash positive and we keep investing in our products, I think we have a lot more opportunity on our way.

Exactly. Yes, we have 2 questions, Praveen. Praveen has gone -- Rohan, can you open the next question?

Am I audible?

[ Anantha ], you can speak. You are unmuted.

And then one is [ Ravi ]. Okay. [ Anantha ]?

So I have 3 questions. And just I will go one by one. First is, did I hear Manish correctly that Q2 and Q3 license wins are likely to be higher than Q1, the trajectory will be better, is that understanding correct?

I think I said, alternate quarters, I strike the boundries. So hopefully, we can continue that trend. So [ Anantha ], I will tell you -- I'll answer this slightly differently. I think Arun called out also on liquidity. In current market conditions, what's the biggest demand from any of our customers? It comes around 2 facets. One is like digital on the branch side, which we talked about. A second very strong trend on the digital is digitizing the mid-office because accessibility to mid-office is difficult taking the paper out. So in the last 3 months, the amount of pull I have seen for digitizing mid-office is very high. And second, liquidity. All of us know the need for liquidity and lending, that's what's driving the banks so hard right now. So either if you're providing technology on liquidity or you're providing technology on lending, those are very, very high demand items right now. And my last few wins have been very, very big wins on liquidity. My current funnel on liquidity is very good. It's the question of when you ink the paper with the ink, and that's what I'm driving towards. So the market demand is there. The brand is very well known. Arun shared, 23% of global cross-border cash concentration for top 6 currencies happens on our platform. So then we are a natural choice, and I see other challengers come in so that procurement can negotiate with us. So that's to be a good leading position to be. We don't need to get arrogant or comfortable with it. Every deal has to be one. So we're working hard towards it. And my biggest focus is keep ensuring all existing customers are big promoters, because quite a bit of my business comes from people having bought me before, either in the same bank or in the previous job, and that's how the business comes through. Customers as net promoters and analysts consistently rating us as #1. In the last 18 months, 12 analysts rated GTB as #1. To continue building on that positive endorsement and now bringing in these tough COVID times a growth, I think that's what the mandate is and that's what all of us as a team are working on.

That's very helpful and good luck. So if I were to conclude from your comments, while the time line might be unsure whether it will be Q2, Q3, but is it safe to say that on an annual basis, FY '21, the license wins will be much more than FY '20, and we shall therefore be able to kind of reflect at our profitability at that level?

[ Anantha ], I will answer that slightly differently. My license funnel today compared to same time last year is better.

Okay. But even if you were to extend the time lines, you aren't committing on that front end translating to revenues.

I don't know right now, given the COVID scenario. There are -- actually, there are pressures to move fast on some of the deals. When will they fructify, what are decision cycles, I think we have just come -- if you look at the results from Europe and U.S. banks, they have not been very encouraging. Most of them have shown massive loss results and massive losses. That's putting also -- and the other pressure on the banks is to help corporates manage the liquidity better. So how do you convert this and how fast the decisioning will happen remotely, I think that's the uncertainty we are dealing with. So I'm focused on existing customers and continue to grow with existing customers, while we nurture the new funnel. There will be a bit of unpredictableness. The demand in the pull factor is growing from an inquiry and RFPs. How quickly can it translate into, I don't want to commit that right now, you would understand given the COVID scenarios. But I'm positive about the need. There's a natural need in the business. How quickly will they ink it, I think that's what we have to see.

Great. And lastly, if I were to -- just an accounting query. What will be the split of our banking versus nonbanking revenue for the quarter?

Sorry, what is it?

Split of our revenues within banking and nonbanking?

There's nothing nonbanking, only insurance is there. Nothing nonbanking. They are all BFSI sector.

In the license...

Yes. [ Anantha ], you've gone. Rohan, just give it to next person, [ Ravi ].

Next in the line is [ Ravi ]. [ Ravi ], can you answer your question. Rohan, just unmute him?

Yes, [ Ravi ]. Please unmute and start speaking.

Yes, the last question, so that we can...

It's the last question.

So Arun, quickly, [indiscernible] back. You had a visibility of probably license revenue of some $19 million over the 6, 7 quarters. It was kind of [indiscernible]. So just given the fact that, as you said that, yes, sales teams are all the more busy in these virtual calls and meetings, so where do you see that visibilty in to date's time in terms of that kind of $19 million kind of a pipe you have 6 to 7 quarters? Is that still there inside? Or how are you looking at it?

[ Ravi ], the pipeline is there, the $530 million pipeline is there. The number of deals we are saying, the $330 million pipeline is there. So all are there. And I think now the predictable pattern is there. We are seeing that something like -- we are able to do licenses between INR 50 crore to INR 100 crore. That's the fluctuation, which happens quarter-to-quarter. So the quarter where we have INR 100 crore license, then it becomes a heavy positive quarter. But now since the lower cost, lower barrier of our 50% license-linked revenue, that has helped us out in our only profit number shifting rather than the -- it's coming to negative side of the EBITDA, which happened last year. So last Q2 and Q3 become negative on EBITDA has beaten our stock and investor expectation. But going forward, its clarity is there, and with these numbers, we can generate. So from your perspective, you should look at it, whether we do -- last quarter, we closed 5 deals, whether we can close 7 deals or 8 deals or 9 deals. Those are the numbers, which will fluctuate. And that is not predictable as of now, whether it's a 7 or 8 or 9 deals, which Manish is saying. Pipeline is there. Some big pipeline Rajesh is mentioning. Some European pipeline is there in Europe where IDC is looking for closing. But on quarter-on-quarter, we are not sure of, but on year-on-year, we should be quite okay. We'll have some surplus more the current quarter. Current year, we are not saying that it will be how much, but it'll be more than the current year, '18, '19, '20.

And also on the deal sizes, so in last year, there was some shift in strategy of looking at [indiscernible]. So how are you looking at that? [indiscernible]

Those deals are unpredictable, [ Ravi ]. Some deals get closed like what Rajesh was mentioning central -- one of the bank in Africa, Central Bank, that deal closed in less than 6 months. Some deals take 3 years. So the cycle time can vary from 6 months to 3 years. And I think from your predictability point from an investor perspective, you should look at it whether this company can deliver how much profit or cash year-on-year. I think that, that is a better way for looking at it rather than micromanaging the things, leave it to us for micromanagement.

So just wanted that sense of visibility on license [indiscernible]?

Those are the micromanagement...

Now we are closing the call. Thank you, everybody, for joining the call -- today's call. In case any further queries or questions are there, please call us and do write to us. Thank you very much. Rohan, can you please the call -- close the call, please?

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you. Bye.