IRB InvIT Fund (540526) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the IRB InvIT call hosted by company for discussing the financial results for the quarter ended September 2024. We have with us today on the call Mr. Vinod K. Menon, Mr. Anil Yadav, Mr. Rushabh Gandhi and Ms. Swapna Vengurlekar from IRB InvIT team. [Operator Instructions] Please note that the duration of the call would be 45 minutes and any queries left unanswered after the call can be subsequently mailed to the management for adequate response and resolution. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now request Mr. Menon to give you an overview of a significant development during the quarter. Over to you, sir.

Yes. Thank you. Good morning, and a happy Dhanteras to all. I would like to welcome all the investors and analysts on the call. Hope you have reviewed our detailed numbers as well as the presentation. Toll collection for this quarter was significantly impacted due to heavy rains across India with many states witnessing their highest rainfall this monsoon, leading to flooding. Despite the impact of heavy rains, toll collection has shown growth. As compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year, we have observed 4% growth in the toll revenue. Generally, the second half of fiscal is better than the first half. And considering the historical trends, we believe that there will be better traffic growth in the coming quarters. We are distributing INR 2 per unit for the quarter ended September 30, 2024. This quarter, we will be distributing INR 1.20 in form of interest, INR 0.23 per unit in the form of dividend and INR 0.57 in the form of the return of capital. Till date, since the Trust IPO way back in the year 2017, its cumulative distribution has reached INR 4,083 crores, that is INR 70.35 per unit, which means 69% of the aggregate fund raised. During the current quarter ended September 2024, dividend has been distributed by MVR SPV. The said SPV continues to follow the old tax regime. Accordingly, based on our knowledge, the said distribution in the form of dividend shall be tax exempt in the hands of the unitholders. The investment manager on behalf of the trust continues to evaluate potential investment opportunities. The net debt to value of assets of the trust is at 0.3:1, which provides sufficient debt capacity for acquiring new assets. On the acquisition front, HAM assets from the sponsor group that is Vadodara-Mumbai Package 7, Pathankot-Mandi are expected to be completed in FY '25. Chittoor-Thatchur is expected to be completed in FY '26. Once completed, the said assets shall have -- shall be available for offer to the Trust. As communicated earlier, we have completed the refinancing of the Trust debt, and we will complete the VK1 SPV debt post receipt of approval from NHAI. I will now request Mr. Rushabh Gandhi to take you through the financial performance for the quarter. Over to you, Rushabh.

Thank you, sir. I will now present the financial analysis for the quarter ended September '24 as compared to the quarter ended September '23. The total consolidated income for the quarter ended September '24 stood at INR 271 crores as compared to INR 258 crores for the corresponding quarter of previous year. The consolidated toll revenue for the quarter ended September '24 stood at INR 228 crores as against INR 218 crores for the quarter ended September '23. EBITDA for the quarter ended September '24 stood at INR 224 crores as against INR 214 crores for the corresponding quarter of previous year. Interest cost, which includes interest on premium deferment for the quarter ended September '24 stood at INR 72 crores as against INR 68 crores for the corresponding quarter of previous year. Depreciation, which includes amortization on toll collection right for the current quarter stood at INR 64 crores as against INR 56 crores for the corresponding quarter of previous year. The profit after tax for the current quarter stood at INR 85 crores as against INR 88 crores for the corresponding quarter of previous year. I will now request the moderator to open the session for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Dayalal Bhool ] an individual investor.

My questions pertain to market driven price of IRB InvIT, which is around INR 62 present, which includes INR 2 current distribution. You will understand that the investor community is highly disappointed due to the actually poor performance of IRB InvIT after listing. I would like to know if you have ever taken issue of buyback with the regulatory authority that is SEBI for, they are against and [indiscernible] forum who presents the InvIT issue to SEBI [indiscernible] InvIT is allowed to raise the fund via QIP, they should be allowed to buy back and [indiscernible] it is also to be noted that related parties that is sponsor are allowed to buy shares [indiscernible] by open market then does the InvIT itself left if you buy the [indiscernible] received, it will improve upon the unit by customers in the open market as well as the unit price related to the [indiscernible] as if you buy the units and stay invested, InvIT will be taking around 12% return where the interest cost InvIT is paying around 8.5%, kindly share your calculation.

With regard to buyback, definitely not only we, but other InvITs has also reached to SEBI. And there the regulators' view is that InvIT is formed with the object to distributing 90% of the cash flow to the unitholder. And if regulator will allow to buy back, the basic premise of 90% distribution to the all unitholders, that will fail. And that's why they are of the view that InvIT should not be allowed to buy back its units. And that's why in spite of representation from the Federation, in spite of the representation from the other InvIT also, the regulator has not permitted a buyback of the units.

That's why you can repurchase [indiscernible] on the open market and stay invested out of the 10% and 90% you are distributing, 10% is the savings due to the InvIT. InvIT is not buying any assets. So from his [indiscernible] so let the InvITs being invested certain [indiscernible]

Sir, if you look at -- if you are talking about our InvIT, we are historically paying 95% to 98% of the funds generated by the InvIT. So we are distributing almost whatever is generated by the InvITs in terms of retention, we don't have any significant amount available. Secondly, one is with respect to the amount, other is with respect to the regulation. If regulation is not there, the provisions for buyback is not there in the regulation, it's difficult to buy back the units and which will not be in line with the current regulation.

But sir, sponsors are allowed to buy shares, everything.

Yes, yes.

You should have put up issue with SEBI or your forum should have put up the issue with the forum -- SEBI [indiscernible] written process -- taken up issue with the SEBI.

Sir, we have written to SEBI along with the other -- through our federations. And in terms of the sponsor, as you rightly mentioned, the sponsor is free to buy the units of the InvIT. So there is no restriction in terms of sponsor buying the units of the trust.

My second question is how much yearly fees are paid to investment manager managing the [indiscernible] of each year? Second in that investment manager contribution adding the asset for each year in that total number of assets evaluated including third party and the approximate value, number of third-party asset values and effort by InvIT with approximate value, number of sponsor asset value and InvIT from the sponsor with approximate value and number of sponsor assets valued but lost to the private InvIT of the sponsor.

So basically, over the year, the Trust -- the investment manager on behalf of the Trust has evaluated more than 30 projects. And during this tenure, 2 projects were evaluated from the sponsor side. One was in September 2017, which was Amritsar-Pathankot project and the other was which we acquired recently, the HAM asset Vadodara Kim project in October '22. Apart from that [indiscernible] and the public InvIT platform, are formed for a different purpose. So private InvIT platform was for under development projects. So the sponsor has transferred under construction assets to the private InvIT. And for public InvIT, only mature assets are acquired and evaluated.

So I think what -- just to add what Rishabh has said, the objective of the 2 InvITs are totally different. If you look at the private InvIT, it's a development platform and they acquire mostly under construction asset that is on BOT, where public InvIT has a restriction in terms of acquiring those assets. In fact, the project which is evaluated by the private InvIT, the public InvIT has not evaluated. And in fact, the project with 30 projects which Rishabh has talked about, there, in fact, the private InvIT has not evaluated those assets because those were mature assets. And those were only evaluated by the public InvIT only. So there is no conflict between 2 InvITs and there is not a single project where both the InvITs were contending to buy the asset.

The next question is from the line of Ram Dass Khanna from Swadeshi Raiment Private Limited.

My question is that what is the schedule of the return of the capital over the remaining life of the assets? How will the capital be returned? All your capital will be returned after -- at the end of the expiry period of the Trust?

So I think if you look at the valuation report that...

That is all right. Kindly excuse me. Valuation is all right. I'm asking the return of the schedule. So how will the capital be returned? How my capital invested in the InvIT -- I'm getting interest, it's all right. I'm getting dividend. How will I get my capital back or I will not get my capital.

Sir, along with the return, you will get your capital also back. And in fact, in the past, we have done a capital repayment. And on that basis, the capital repayment will happen as the project will enter in the fag end of the concession, there will be capital repayment will start. So sir, if I will just explain in the technical concept, if I'm infusing today, for example, INR 65 in the InvIT, so that INR 65 will be a negative kind of -- that is outflow for me. And whatever I will get over the period of time, that will be inflow for me. So both inflow and considering the outflow and inflow, the IRR which InvIT is offering is ranges from 14% to 16%. When I talk about IRR of 14% to 16%, it means after repayment of my capital, I will get a return of 14% to 16%.

I do not want the return -- [indiscernible] may be giving me more interest. I want my safety of capital also. At the end of the period, my capital is not to be returned. That is what my request is. You may distribute that interest, but my capital should be protected. Otherwise, the small shareholders will suffer heavily at the end of the term.

So basically, sir, we distribute in 3 forms. One is the interest -- charging interest to the SPV for the debt given to the underlying SPV -- for that, that is one form is interest. The other is dividend. Wherever the SPVs are generating book profits, in those cases, in our case, it's MVR. So dividend is getting distributed. And apart from that, wherever there is a principal repayment, those amounts is getting distributed in the form of return of capital. So basically, the Trust is distributing to the unitholders in 3 forms. One is interest, the other is dividend and the third is return of capital. So of which the interest currently is taxable in the hands of unitholders, dividend since the underlying SPV is following the old tax regime that is exempt. And the third is return of capital, which as per the recent tax amendment would go on reducing the investment value.

Right, sir. But I am not clear how will my capital will be protected. I will get maximum return. I'm getting very good return. There's no doubt about it -- whether at the cost of my capital -- actually the question is where is -- at the cost of my capital. Will my capital at the end of the year will be completely paid back -- [indiscernible] whichever capital loss?

Sir, over the period of time, definitely, you will get your capital back. That's why I was trying to explain if you have...

Thank you. If you are [indiscernible] if capital will be returned back, we are happy very much.

The next question is from the line of Dhiraj Dave from Samvad Financial Services LLP.

Yes. So one thing I want to figure out basically on this Pathankot-Amritsar highway, you see drop in particularly traffic. So any specific reason, at least if we compare first half and second half -- first half this year and first half data, which has been shared in presentation. So besides the agitation of farmers and you have given a disclosure, so that is there but this is becoming now a consistent problem for us that every time there is agitation, how exactly management to view that?

I think, sir, there are a couple of things. One, with respect to the agitation period. If you look at the past period also for agitation, we have got an equivalent number of days extension in concession period and 50% of interest in O&M. And based on the calculation as per NHAI.

Okay. Now just one more small question. So is it NAV accretive for us when we -- the tenure get extended?

Sir, I was coming to that. In fact, our IRR is fully protected and it will be NPV accretive because if you look at typically the cost of debt is around 8.5%, 9% and cost of equity is around 12%, 13%. The weighted average cost of capital comes around 10% and your growth -- yearly growth should be 8% to 10%. And plus you are getting a cost on compensation also. If you will do a simple math, it will be always NPV accretive and NPV attractive. And with regard to, sir, growth, I think because of monsoon, severe monsoon, overall projects were impacted. And typically, wherever the mining traffic is higher, typically, you will have a more severe impact of the monsoon on those projects as compared to wherever we have lower mining traffic.

So basically, Jaipur-Delhi as well as Pathankot-Amritsar, that too broadly having the more share of mining-related traffic, right?

Yes. But sir, Jaipur as falls in Rajasthan, there even in spite of the -- there the number of rain days are pretty low as compared to the rains in the Punjab.

And in Rajasthan, the Supreme Court has already allowed the mining part.

Yes. So -- and the second part is that in past, we faced some issue when there were tension on border area, particularly on Pathankot-Amritsar. So can we take some insurance or some kind of means avenue which we can explore for some kind of contingency or -- because I don't know whether that gets covered into [indiscernible] with NHAI. I think in past, management did give some indication that the traffic was restricted due to movement or Army taking some kind of control on that part. So -- is that a risk? And how management see that happening again and again?

I think, sir, with respect to loss of revenue, typically, insurance company does not provide those kind of cover. And anyway, if you are eligible for compensation, NHAI will pay only the difference where if you have INR 100 loss, if you get INR 10 from the insurance, then only INR 90 will be paid back by the NHAI.

Point well taken. My only limited question is basically, in case military decides that, okay, there is no civilian traffic movement on that road for whatever condition which may arise in border area. In such situation, what is the recourse InvIT has? They say that, okay, for 1 month for whatever reason, [indiscernible] And 1 month, they restrict just a military control kind of that road because that's very strategic for us as a country. So in that scenario, what happens to us?

Sir, there is force majeure clause in the concession agreement.

It covers this.

If you have those kind of situation for more than 7 days, you can ask for the compensation.

Fair enough. That answers, that's fine. Now one more submission from my side, sir. Basically, we always get 6 monthly -- particularly September and March quarter, we get 6 monthly numbers, audited account. If you look at other InvIT, they do provide quarterly like listed companies provide quarterly, half yearly or 9 monthly or whatever kind of format, but they do provide us a quarterly number because otherwise, we have to take June quarter and then we did a September cumulative minus June and get September quarter number. And this would be simple and all other InvITs do disclose that. At least India Grid I'm sure know for sure where I've invested and even Power Grid and other InvIT also. So my submission, we have accepted many suggestions which investors had made. This would be simpler, at least provide us the quarterly data because last quarter, otherwise, we get a half yearly data. So just NCDF, your results, everything comes September 6 months. So why not to make September 3 months? And September 6 months if regulatory required, please put that also. No issue on that. But as September 2024 and September 2023, 3-month data also. We request henceforth -- at least give us quarterly data because otherwise, we have to do a calculation.

Sir, definitely, we will provide. Only issue was that the statutory auditor typically agrees to sign whatever statutory required. But since this is the suggestion coming from the investor, we will minutize...

And you can tell your statutory auditors at all companies, you look at InvIT, India Grid InvIT, you look at other Bharat InvIT, most of them provide quarterly data, REIT. So it should not be an issue with auditor. At least you can give multiple kind of examples. So if those auditors are signing, why should our auditors have any objection to that. And we are looking at quarterly. So if it is coming at half yearly data, definitely has done 3 months plus 3 months, right? We haven't done 6-month audit now. So I can't understand if auditor can have an issue on that. And if there is issue, then you have to request auditor rather than to tell investors that you need to do that because all across, you can go -- you can download, your finance person can download all results of all InvITs. And if you want, I will send across. So there should not be issue. And in fact, I remember 2 years back, I requested that, give a quarterly number. So that is why I appreciate your all efforts basically you now giving us sufficient time to ask questions. So all that part we appreciate, and we do look forward to this positive step as well. Wish you all the best for the future.

The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial.

Sir, firstly, in the stand-alone number, what is the impairment related to in one of the subsidiaries and which is a subsidiary?

The impairment relates to the investment in Pathankot-Amritsar project.

And why have they impairments? What was the main reason behind that?

Sure, sir. So basically, there is no impairment at asset level. This impairment is of investment in Pathankot-Amritsar at a Trust level. So basically, the SPV -- the Trust is charging 13% interest to the SPV. And in case of farmers' protest, so there we received the extension concession period, so which is at the end of the concession. So IRR level, it is neutral. But during those periods, the interest was served out of the debt from Trust itself. So that -- because of that part, there is a provision for impairment. And over the period, that will get reversed.

So incrementally, maybe in the fag end of the project, it would be reversed back?

Yes, yes.

Okay. And sir, secondly, if you could spend some time on the incremental, how do we see the growth in toll collection across the assets because H1 has been quite weak.

So I think the -- for weak, there are 2 or 3 reasons. One was the severe monsoon. Secondly, this year, the tariff revision was delayed because of the code of conduct. And third reason because of the geopolitical risk going on. If you refer our presentation, we have provided a category-wise vehicle also. If you look at MAV vehicle per se, which consists of mainly the container traffic, there a decline in the vehicular count. And that has because of the geopolitical tension going on in East areas. And that has led a lower MAV count across all projects. But we feel that these are the temporary. Probably we will have -- as the festive season is starting, we will have a robust number in Q3 and Q4.

Sir, particularly for Talegaon-Amravati, the collection was around INR 21 crores in the second quarter. So how do you see the ramp-up for this project in Q3 and Q4?

This is because of the monsoon, second quarter is generally on a softer side. So typically, the first half -- second half is comparatively better as compared to the first half. So from Q3 onwards, we should see some traction in Talegaon-Amravati project as well.

So can we go back to the Q1 levels of around INR 23 crores, INR 24-odd crores in Q3?

We expect it should go up to that level.

Okay. And similarly, for Pathankot-Amritsar, can we expect something similar around INR 39 crores INR 40-odd crores, which was there in Q1?

For Pathankot-Amritsar project, currently because of the farmers' protest, the toll collection has been on temporary suspended. So once the collection resumes, we believe it should gradually move towards that level.

So similar level can be expected what we saw in Q2 around INR 36-odd crores.

We can expect that level.

In Q3, Q4?

Yes.

Okay. And lastly, what was the toll collection -- the hike that we got for MVR?

In case of Omal-Salem project, the WPI is effective from 1st of September, which is linked directly to the March WPI. So the WPI for the month of March was 0.26%. So because of that, we have received less than 5% of tariff revision.

The next question is from the line of Saurabh Chhabra, an individual investor.

So I've got a couple of questions. One is regarding the refinancing exercise that we did, right? So I understand that this year, we did the refinancing exercise. And a couple of quarters back in the call, we mentioned that this will have an impact on DPU. So my first question is whether -- like by when we can see increase in DPU? I mean, that should be the ideal case. But like what you -- I mean, I have not seen -- we are stagnant, right? Right now, it's like INR 2 per quarter. So by when you are thinking that this refinancing exercise can actually flow to DPU? That's the first question.

I think from Q3, if the numbers improve, then definitely, there will be increase in payout.

Okay. So from Q3 this year, right?

Yes.

Okay. Got it. Secondly, for Amritsar-Pathankot, like this farmers' protest, I think one of the previous callers also alluded to this. It's becoming -- it's a politically sensitive risk kind of thing, right? So -- and I understood that one of the HAM projects is also in same geography. So when we are going to sort of acquire an asset in future, I hope this political uncertainty or risk will also be part of the calculation, right? I am hoping because if you look at it, since the day that we have acquired that status, whenever this elections or whatever comes, I mean, there is one thing that happens is that the farmers' protest is going on. So I understand that it is accretive and everything, but it is sort of having an impact on our monthly collection, right? So there must be something in the equation for acquiring that asset. So is there something that we can do or like we just have to right now bear it?

I think with respect to the HAM assets, it's an annuity based and there are nothing -- we have nothing to do with the toll collection. If we are acquiring the HAM, we'll get the annuity from the NHI -- from the authority. And we don't have any other project neither with the sponsor nor with the private advisory, which is in the State of Punjab. So this is the only project. But as you rightly mentioned, this creates some kind of noise. But so far, we are getting the compensation in terms of extension and 50% reimbursement to the expenditure.

There is some positive discussions with the government also, between the farmers and the government. So we expect this to also close and the collection to resume shortly.

Okay. Sorry, can I squeeze in one last question?

Sure.

I mean, in 3 to 5 years' road map, right, how many assets are we planning to acquire? Is there like -- because I don't see -- if you see we are stagnant, like I keep on repeating, like for the last 2 years, we are stagnant. So for next 3 to 5 years, is there a road map to increase DPU -- and the ideal way would be to acquire an asset and to move forward. So how -- what is the road map at the Trust level that we are working towards for 3 to 5 years? Like is there a road map? What exactly are we working towards?

So I think in terms of the road map, our road map is that we will try to acquire more and more projects. And in terms of the payout on basis of the current projects only, the payout should -- in next 5 years should reach INR 9, INR 9.5 after 4 or 5 years.

Okay. Based on current asset and one asset is actually going in '26 Jan with that into consideration, it will still reach the stage of 9 DPU, right? That's what you're saying?

Yes.

The next question is from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

Sir, just wanted to understand this like if you look at the WPI data, it was much higher than the 2% that we have seen in this last quarter. But somehow the increase in WPI in general that we see is not getting reflected in our toll collections. So I wanted to understand how are the toll revisions working out for us? Exactly how are they correlated with WPI? And if you can give me asset by asset of what has happened in the last -- like, for example, you are saying that March one asset is at only 1%, 2%. But then June quarter, it was -- I think WPI was 3%, 4%. So how is that working out?

Out of the total 5 UT projects, 4 of our projects are linked to 3% of fixed plus 40% is linked to the WPI for the month of December of previous year. So basically, in the previous financial year, the WPI for the month of December growth was 3.35%. So considering 3% of fixed portion plus 40% of WPI. So -- and that tariff revision is rounded up to near is INR 5. So considering those, the effective tariff revision, which we got for 4 of our projects was close to 2.5%. And for MVR, which is earlier.

Sorry, I didn't get it. 3% you said is fixed. That will anyway happen every year, right?

The 3% is linked to the 2007, the original part. Its growth...

So 3% plus 40% of WPI is what you're saying, right?

Yes, yes.

So that will be more than 4% no, sir?

Yes, yes. But the amount gets rounded off to near is INR 5.

Nearest?

INR 5. The car tariff was INR 50. And if we are getting a 3% increase, then that will become close to INR 51.5. So that will get rounded down to INR 50 only. So there will not be any revision in the car -- car fare.

Sir, but my concern here is now you are saying this calculation of 3% and 40% of WPI. Even in your valuation, you use 4%, 5% WPI increase. But if you look at this quarter, for example, you should have got 4%, 5% increase in the -- through WPI is 3% only. And your total revenue increase itself is 4%. That is mostly volume linked on anyway. So basically, you are not able to get anything from the WPI because of this sort of structure?

I think one has to look at the WPI on a long-term basis. If you look at in FY '23, we got 10.46% as WPI growth. In some year, you may get a higher number. And in some year, you may get a lower number. In FY '24 also -- for FY '24, we got almost 5% plus. So then this year, the revision was close to 2% only. So it's linked with the WPI. And depending upon what kind of WPI prevailing as of December, that gets implemented. What is the WPI in the last quarter, that may not be relevant because your tariff revision happens once every year.

So let's say, in FY '24 also when the WPI revision was 10% as per you, I don't think we got any revenues in line with 10% plus, maybe 4%, 5% volume growth. So our revenues did not grow in FY '24 also by 14%, 15%, sir?

Sir, I'm referring FY '23 for financial year '23, we got 10.46%. And for financial year '24, we got close to 5%.

Okay. And this year, basically, you got nothing because of this rule?

We got close to 2%.

2.5%.

2.5%. So your volume growth has normally been 1.5%.

Ideally, yes. For volume growth, you can refer our corporate presentation, we have provided a category-wise volume growth.

Yes, yes. But the rates differ a lot, right? So unless I know the category-wise toll collection, it is difficult to understand what is the mix change and all that. How much do you get from MAV typically?

Different project has a different this thing. But if the car is 50, MAV may be close to 500.

No, no. Of a typical project, how much contribution comes from MAV and truck bus, for example?

I think all the projects, 70%, 80% will be commercial vehicle and around 20%, 30% will be the passenger vehicle.

Okay. Understood. Understood. And secondly, on the cost of debt, so now that has also gone up for us, and that is also reflecting in our interest cost. So most of that is because of the repo rate increase. So as the repo rate decrease comes maybe sometime in the future, you should get the immediate benefit? Or how is that?

Yes, you are absolutely correct that once the repo rate starts declining, we should benefit on a lower interest rate.

So your cost of funds will come down?

Yes.

And is that -- most of your debt is MCLR or repo rate linked?

MCLR linked.

So that will take some time for the transmission for you guys also.

Yes.

Okay. Okay. And finally, just to confirm, so you are saying that, let's say, this Pathankot-Amritsar project, now this keeps getting installed because of the farmer agitation from time to time. So now what you are saying is that it is ultimately an NPV accretive event whenever this gets installed. So can you throw some -- what are the calculations behind saying that? Because ideally, if the concession period is only increased, then like your volumes are anyways at risk because you don't know, I mean, 1 year, 2 years down the line, how will the traffic movement be on this. You get equivalent number of days which are moved forward, but then that those cash flows will happen in the future. So that has to be discounted. So how exactly is it NPV positive?

Yes. So as I was explaining that typically, the traffic will grow in line with the [ GTP ] and your tariff will be linked with the inflation. And if you look at historically, these were in the range of 9% to 10%. If you extrapolate your revenue by 9% to 10%, and your discount rate is also 9% to 10% because your cost of -- the discount rate typically cost of debt is around 8.5% to 9% and cost of equity is around 13%, 13.5%. So the WACC comes close to 9%, 9.5%, so your increase in the revenue and the discount rate is almost similar. Hence, it will be IRR neutral. And there is a compensation which comes from the NHAI, which is 50% of the interest and O&M. So that there is a cash compensation and there is extension. Accordingly, the calculation should be NPV accretive.

And all these cash flow, when do they occur when -- so for example, now the road is shut, you are not able to collect. So when is NHAI going to give you this after the agitation, before the agitation goes on for 2 years. 2 years, you don't collect toll. So for 2 years, will you get any cash flows or only after everything has been done with an indefinite period attached to it that you will get the compensation?

No, we regularly file the claim. And based on our past practice, typically, it takes 3 to 6 months' time to realize the -- in your example, if the agitation goes for 2 years, then definitely for a quarterly basis with a quarter lag, we will be ideally getting the quarterly reimbursement.

Okay. And when you say NPV positive, this also takes into account this almost 6 to 9 months or maybe even more that government authorities typically take to pay out the actual cash flows.

That we get with interest.

Yes. But if there is a delay, then definitely, there is an interest to that extent.

Okay. So if they delay from point -- their part to release the funds, then they pay another interest on that?

Yes.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Menon. Over to you, sir.

Yes. Thanks to all the investors and participants on this call, and wishing you a happy Diwali. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. We thank you for your participation and for using Researchbytes' Conferencing Services. You may please disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a great day ahead.