JSW Steel Limited (500228) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the JSW Steel Limited Q1 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashwin Bajaj, Group Head, Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Thank you, operator, and a very good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to JSW Steel's earnings call for Q1 of financial year 2027. We have with us today the management team represented by Mr. Jayant Acharya, joint MD and CEO Mr. G. S. Rathore, Chief Operating Officer; Mr. Arun Maheshwari, Director of Commercial and Marketing; and Mr. Swayam Saurabh, the CFO. We will start with opening remarks by Mr. Acharya and then open the floor to Q&A. So with that, over to you, Mr. Acharya.

Good evening, everyone. The global growth outlook remains intact despite ongoing uncertainties with the IMF lowering its global focus for 2026, just by 10 bps to 3%, while upgrading the outlook for 2027 to 3.4%. Global economic activity remained resilient during the quarter with manufacturing support by inventory restocking and with the Middle East conflict and continued strength in the global tech cycle driven by AI-related investments. However, the disinflation trend that has been in place since 2024 appears to have stalled prompting major central banks to adopt to a more cautious stance. While the adverse impact of the conflict on supply-side disruptions and elevated energy costs started to moderate in end June, the recent escalation and development remain key monitorables. Looking ahead, reconstruction-related demand could provide an additional growth better. India remains one of the fastest-growing major economies globally with RBI growth projection at 6.6% for FY '27, reflecting resilience amidst external headwinds. Industrial production and exports have performed well. recently despite the impact of geopolitical disruptions. The automotive sector saw sustained double-digit expansion in domestic passenger vehicles and commercial vehicle sales over the past 3 quarters, following the GST rate cuts implemented in September 2025. The rural demand remains healthy, underpined by a strong Rabi harvest with supported growth in 4-wheelers, 2-wheelers and tractor sales. Although some below-normal monsoon remains a key risk to monitor. The investment cycle also continues to strengthen, aided by healthy public CapEx pipeline and sustained momentum across commercial real estate, energy, data centers, defense and maritime sectors. India steel consumption remained strong and grew by 8% in quarter 1, with the imposition of same card duty in December '26, India has become a net steel exposure after 2 years in FY '26. However, in quarter 1 India has become a net import of steel once again. And imports grew by 22% quarter-on-quarter and exports fell quarter-on-quarter by 16%. Looking ahead, domestic steel demand is expected to grow at a healthy rate of 7% to 9%, providing a strong base for future capacity growth. In China, steel production was down 3.9% during Jan to May and consumption declined by 4%. Steel exports including semis fell between January to March, though they continue to remain at elevated levels. On sustainability, I'm happy to report that project seed, our flagship decarbonization project has delivered a cumulative emissions reduction of approximately 5 million tonnes CO2 since 2022. We have also been systematically ramping up deployment of scrap steel resulting scrap utilization growth by 16% Y-o-Y in quarter 1. JSW Steel had launched the Green Edge brand, a low-emission steel brand. supported by a carbon bank of 1 million tonnes of CO2 credits certified by Bureau Veritas. In quarter 1, we successfully executed our first GreenEdge export order, marking a key milestone in the journey from product launch to active market adoption. Before we get into the quarter 1 performance, I would just like to remind you that BPSL Steel business was deconsolidated from JSW Steel's financials with effect from 27 March 2026. Hence, in our results materials this quarter, we have presented the previous volumes and financials on a pro forma basis, excluding BPSL to make them comparable to the current period. Coming to our operating performance. Utilization of capacities for our Indian ratio stood at approximately 94%, excluding the BS-3, which was under shutdown much higher than the 88% in quarter 1 last year. This was achieved through efficient operation of our assets across all plants. Our consolidated crude steel production at 6.59 million tonnes and sales -- and Indian operations production of about 6.35 million tonnes were up by 3% Y-o-Y. However, excluding the BF VI, which was under shutdown, our consolidated production growth grew by a significant 15% Y-o-Y, driven by the ramp-up of our JV ML operations. Consolidated steel sales for the quarter grew by 4% Y-o-Y to $6.25 million. We delivered our best Q1 flat sales, which grew by 9% Y-o-Y as we focused on flat due to better demand and pricing. Our total hot rolled sales were also the best ever for quarter 1, up 18% Y-o-Y. Carbon steel longs demand in the market was impacted by labor availability due to the state elections and diesel availability issues due to the Middle East conflict, resulting in lower loan sales. Our sharp focus on the downstream segment enabled VASP sales to grow 8% Y-o-Y, accounting for 61% of our total sales. Sales to the institutional sector was the highest ever for quarter 1, up by 5% Y-o-Y. Retail sales, however, experienced some pressure during the quarter due to higher imports and channel destocking. We achieved our best ever quarter 1 sales in the auto and renewable sectors with volumes increasing by 18% and 25% Y-o-Y. Sales to the MSME construction equipment, bearings and defense sectors registered a substantial growth. Moving to our financial results, JSW Steel delivered a strong financial performance, our consolidated revenues during the quarter 1 FY '27 were INR 47,364 crores. Adjusted EBITDA stood at INR 9,373 crores with an EBITDA margin of 20% while PAT stood at INR 4,696 crores. Steel prices recovered from early January this year and strengthened further through March during quarter 1, flat prices saw some moderate decline while long prices saw a significant correction. As we mentioned in last quarter's call, some part of the price discovery of quarter 4 was realized in quarter 1, thus, overall realizations were higher quarter-on-quarter. On the cost side, we were slightly higher than our guidance given in the last results due to an increase in various input costs on account of the Middle East conflict. Coking coal prices increased by around $17 per tonne, slightly higher than our guidance of $12 to $15. Iron ore costs were also higher in the quarter, 1 in question. Moving to our overseas operations at the Ohio facility, we have commissioned the vacuum D gas in quarter 1. We -- which will enable us to produce higher steel rates, especially the API grades U.S. Production and sales were significantly higher quarter-on-quarter as we've taken shutdowns for the caster upgrades in quarter 4. Ohio generated a positive EBITDA for quarter 1. The plate and pipe mill in Texas also performed better quarter-on-quarter basis due to better operational efficiencies and higher sales driven by a strong plate and pipe demand. Both U.S. operations generated a combined EBITDA of $16 million. The Italian rail also -- will also perform well in quarter 1, reporting a higher EBITDA of EUR 7 million, though volumes were affected by an annual shutdown in May. We recently signed a program agreement with the Italian government for implementation of the rail mill modernization project. The agreement covers various aspects relating to projects, including a grant of EUR 33 million for the project. The second tranche of JFE's equity investment of INR 7,085 crores for JSW JV joint venture transaction has been received on 30th June as scheduled. With this, the JV transition has been completed. Last quarter, we had revised our seated maximum cap for gearing from 1.75 to 1.25 and leverage from 3.75% to 3%. However, we would like to reiterate that our comfort level will be to keep the leverage below 2.5. Leverage and gearing have further dropped versus last quarter to 1.46 and 0.42, respectively. Our net debt stands at INR 45,750 crores and is substantially down from FY '25, our revenue acceptances stood at USD 2 billion. During the quarter, we incurred a CapEx of INR 4,900 crores, and we expect to spend between INR 2,200 crores to INR 24,000 crores in this financial year. Let me update you on the growth projects as well. The progress is good. We -- at vijayanagar BF-3, the expansion from 3 million to 4.5 million has been completed, and the blast furnace was lit up in June '26 -- towards the end of June '26. The blast furnace is ramping up and is now at about 80% within a few weeks, where we'll add incremental volume from Q2. Our projects at Dolvi, Utkal and the slurry pipeline continue to be on track. On third July, we conducted the groundbreaking ceremony of our previously announced 1 million tonne EAF and structural project at Kadapa in the Rayalseema region of Andhra Pradesh. Key equipment orders have been placed and commissioning is targeted for FY '29. Our various downstream projects are progressing well. And in this quarter, we have announced the scope of a few of them. We are adding about 0.44 million tonnes of capacity in the earlier announced downstream projects at Vijayanagar, Khopoli and Rajpura. At Khopolo, we have also enhanced the product capability to include a wider range of high-strength steels, value-added coated steel products in the overall capability. Lastly, we are now adding a rail capability to the 1 million tonne structural mean at Raigarh. Let me now update you on the developments on the raw material front. We are strategically enhancing our raw material security, as we mentioned, both in iron ore and coking coal. We have 25 iron ore mines out of which 13 are currently operational, and we are working on operationalizing the remaining mines as well as expanding some of our operating lines. We continue to bid rationally for new mines. And in May 26, we had won the [indiscernible] mine in Goa. As we increase iron ore production from our captive mines. We are geographically optimizing our sourcing, thus reducing logistics costs at some times. On the coking coal front, we have taken over the [indiscernible] washery from BCCL in June. We are modernizing and expanding the capacity of the washlethandlooking coal from our linkages with BCCL and our captive mines. We continue to progress on our other coking ore initiatives, including the MDR project in Mozambique and the 3 captive mines in India. For our MDR deposit, we have finalized and placed one of the major EPC orders and are in the process of finalizing others as well. The GSW 1 platform in which we have 60.52% equity stake on a fully diluted basis, saw steel volumes grow by 36% Y-o-Y. GMV was INR 5,919 crores in Q1, up 51% Y-o-Y. INR 1,987 crores of this GMV was driven by JSW credit offerings which was also up by 49% Y-o-Y. JSW 1 continued to deliver positive EBITDA in quarter 1 of this financial year. Looking ahead, our volume should increase in quarter 2 driven by the ramp-up of BF-3 in Vijayanagar and Ohio operations, there will be an impact on cost as coking coal costs are expected to be higher by $12 to $15 in quarter 2. Coking coal costs have come down recently, and that reflected in the subsequent quarter, and that is Q3. Iron ore costs are also trending down, and that should be favorable towards the end of quarter 2 and quarter 3. India steel demand is expected to grow at a healthy rate of 7% to 9% in FY '27, and we expect to add an incremental demand of 12 million to 13 million tonnes in India. Demand growth will be supported by public tax as well as improving private CapEx, growth in manufacturing and the robust auto sector. We are also seeing a broadening consumption across the country across the rural side as well. With a strong balance sheet and improving operating performance, we are well poised to carry forward our growth journey and contribute to India's growth story. With that, we are happy to take questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Alok Deora with Motilal Oswal.

Congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, just had a couple of questions. First is on the steel prices. Now how do we see the prices moving and for us in the second quarter, considering that there has been a sharp correction in the -- especially in the long steel prices. So just some color on that. And also on the demand scenario because of it has been pretty subdued in the first quarter. So you briefly mentioned that it would be slightly better in Q2. But if you could just provide some sense on the demand side? That would be my first question.

Yes. So the demand, as we saw for India, I think, is quite good at 8% plus. We had drawn down our inventories quite substantially, if you recall, during the March quarter end. And some of the inventories we needed to rebuild for our operations of downstream and for our plate mill at Anjar. -- which we have done, which is our usual process in the first quarter. On the long side, we did have an impact of lower sales due to a price -- a lower price from the secondary market. some labor shortage and full availability in some of our project core areas. We see the volumes improving in quarter 2 with the ramp-up of I you will see higher volumes from JSW Steel for the quarter 2 as the BF-3 ramps up and JVML continues to operate fully. On the pricing, it will be difficult to give a indication at where it will be. But the long prices have corrected as you also said, and we have also committed the flat corrections have been moderate. And we feel that the flat pricing is quite reasonably priced. Longs is a seasonal impact, which we see every month soon. We feel that the prices would normalize as we go into the second half of this year with a good demand growth, normalization of projects and CapEx growth and in general, a seasonally stronger H2 as we go ahead.

Also, sir, on the iron ore side, how much was the captive iron ore and what's the annual cost impact we could see in the quarter 2? If you could just highlight on that.

Our captive iron ore was closer to 30% or so, including the Natrobunda mine, which applies to JJSL now, at about that range. Iron ore costs have gone up during the quarter. Direct iron ore costs have gone up by about plus INR 230 odd per tonne of iron ore.

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Amit Dixit with Goldman Sachs.

Good evening, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity. Congratulations for good performance. Couple of questions from my side. The first one is that -- sorry, you have added couple of small downstream projects on at Dolvi 3 of around INR 2,000 crores in this quarter compared to the last one. Possible to elaborate on that, what is the downstream project all about also the progress on the CRGO project that we have been discussing earlier would be helpful.

No. So there is no downstream facility being added in Dolvi. There are some design changes in our raw material handling system because the conveyors, which we had come from the port operations to the plant were to go through a certain area of land. And that did not materialize, so we had to create a higher structure on a double-conveyor basis, and that resulted in a much stronger cost from the RMSH side. The project cost was also there was some enhancement in the other areas, including the some of the costs due to the Middle East conflict as well. But we continue to remain very strong on the -- if you see the total cost of the project from a specific CapEx investment point of view, for a $5 million of facility is still below INR 5,000 crores per million tonnes and remains very competitive. .

That's helpful. The second question is essentially on the West Asia crisis only that we have been in certain companies reporting -- in other sectors, of course, the one-off cost. Did we also have some one-off costs due to maybe escalation in energy cost or propane or something that we don't expect to recur possibly if the war settles down or situation becomes better. Was there an element of such kind of cost also in this quarter, if you want to quantify that?

Of course, I mean, we did not see a very significant impact. Of course, some fluxes gas prices went up, plus there were indirect costs in the form of higher container cost, shipping cost went up. We believe that most of it for example, gases should reverse fully in this quarter. But as we go into more subclients and there is more stability, all of this should come back.

And how much it would have been, I mean, as a pertain of steel, I mean, cost or something?

It has been very dependent on the product to product. There has been an impact on the [indiscernible] mentioned. Also on the bulker side, the marine has gone up. So that has an impact overall, month-on-month, I would say $20, kind of, overall.

Sir, can you please be clearer? Sorry, I couldn't hear your last sentence.

Close to about $20 per tonne. .

Our next question comes from the line of Sumangal Nevatia with Kotak Securities.

So my first question is on the raw materials. So first, if you can share about our coking coal initiatives. So in the next 3, 4 years, what volumes, what percentage of our requirement could be made from captive mines? And what sort of cost advantage can we foresee that? And then on iron ore, I mean, overall, over the next 2, 3 years, what -- from 30%, where are we looking at? And the slurry pipeline, what sort of cost advantage or cost reduction do we expect from '28 onwards?

So on the raw material front, first of all, your question was on the coking coal front. [indiscernible] First thing is what we are doing minisubmarines production by 2028, mid of 2028. So that is one thing which will come. We continue to get our reason from our equity stake from Illawara mine in Australia. On the domestic side, we have started easing partially material in one of the locations. We are seeing the benefits coming in. However the actual quantification of the benefits will be deselected scale. Maybe in next 3 years, probably, we will be able to scale it to 2 million, 3 million tonnes kind of input from the which will be close to about more than 10% of our total fee. This is for domestic coaking coal.

And what about Mozambique Australia in terms of volumes and cost benefit? .

Australia, it's close to about 2 million tonnes a year. Mozambique will start by the mid of 2028, targets is to take it to 7 million tonnes, actually, when the project really start.

Understood. Understood. That's useful. And on the iron ore?.

Iron ore continue to, as Mr. Acharya mentioned in his opening remarks, we have 25 miles as of now, only 13 are operational, and we are working on the balance of my operation, which should come in pages as and when we get the approvals and all those time lines are done. So hopefully, we'll [indiscernible].

I wanted to understand about the slurry pipeline, what sort of volumes do we expect to move and the cost savings, which we will incur.

I think a couple of quarters back when we took this approval, definitely I had mentioned this entire volume of the slurry pipeline is -- the capacity of the slurry pipeline is both 30 million tonne, and we intend to do about 20 million tonnes out of that for now and the cost saving as compared to today is about INR 1,000 crores per tonne.

Per tonne of iron.

Yes, per ton of iron.

Just one more question. I just wanted to understand, given the BPSL deal, we've significantly deleveraged the balance sheet. So what sort of rating upgrade and subsequently interest cost savings? Are we expecting to flow through in the coming quarters or next 1, 2 years?

Yes. So of course, we are in that cycle where our credit standing, is getting evaluated and you would have already noted, is recently has upgraded us from BB to BB+ with a positive outlook. We have also gotten a rating upgrade from H. We expect this trajectory to continue. As far as cost is concerned, I mean the fact that absolute gross debt is going to be lower. Absolute interest costs should trend lower versus our historical numbers. We, over time, should start to see some advantage in terms of borrowing costs, but it also depends on the mix -- so it's difficult to give you a number, but we should see gradual reduction also on the rate front of finance cost.

All the best.

Thank you.

Our next question comes from the line of Pallav Agarwal with Antique Stockbroking.

I had a question on the standalone, the change in the inventory part. So if I look at the volumes, the sales volumes were actually higher than the production volume. So you just change in inventory due to your work in progress or some of the raw material inventories.

I think the way you should look at it is look at the overall India operations and see the numbers. On an overall basis, our inventory has gone up, as we mentioned, to some extent, to build up some entry, which was drawn down in March quarter. for our downstream operations and finished good servicing. In addition to that, some of the slab transfer to our [indiscernible] plate. However, specifically for the stand-alone question which you asked. which Swayam will answer.

So our Vijayanagar facility also hosts JV, which is a subsidiary. And depending on capacity available, there are in the unit transport. So JSW Steel side of volume gets reported under stand-alone, but the transfer between JVML and vijayanagar and vice versa is the reason why the volumes look higher.

Sure. So could you actually just give us a breakup of when you mentioned console volumes. So in that is a stand-alone plus JVML, what else, Ohio and what else is included in those volumes?

So consol volume would include the standalone plus JVML plus Raigarh plus Salem?

That is a standalone.

No, no, consol volume plus U.S. Ohio. And adjusted for any intercompany volume elimination -- profit elimination. And coated is not part of volume.

So coated is basically netted of the transfer, the net debt of purchase and quoted from outside, it becomes again for overall adjust. So it includes all our units basically other than [indiscernible].

And I'm assuming Salem volumes being a 1 million tonne plant and the Raigarh would not be very significant on a quarterly basis.

Correct.

Okay. So just lastly, also, you mentioned there was some spillover of benefits from Q4 prices a auto contracts in Q1. So is it possible to quantify what exactly -- how much was the benefit on the Q?.

The auto prices for most of the customers have been finalized. And some part of the benefit, I think close to 90% of the benefit is already factored in the results of quarter 1. -- 1 or 2 closures, which are in the process will get concluded, and that will reflect in Q4. I don't have the exact numbers to give you with respect to how much because it depends on product, depends from customer to customer, it will be different. .

Our next question comes from the line of Ritesh Shah with Investec India.

I have a few questions. First is the hypothetical one, sir. If hypothetically safeguard duties are not reinstated or extended then how are we looking at the regulatory scenario. I understand antidumping duty investigations have been initiated. If you could provide some color on what has been proposed at the industry over here, and just paint scenario, but in safeguard come and antidumping duties are there or not there.

The imports into India in the last quarter have gone up as we explained, we become a net importer. We have seen imports being up from Japan Russian China, in particular. The government of India and the industry had applied also in the government of India, it's considered to investigate the case. -- and the antidumping against some of these countries have been initiated. . What the results will be difficult to say. I think it's an investigation, which is causing legal process takes its course, and the results will come out in due course. The antidumping is other than safeguard and can run in pale to the safeguard as is today also there in U.S. and Europe.

That helps. Sir, my second question is on the last company call, we had indicated a CapEx of INR 1,26,000 crores. So the total was I presume INR 2,26,000 crores. I see on Slide #41, we have given a split of INR 130,000 crores, I just wanted to have some clarity on the total number of INR 2,26,000 crores versus INR 1,30,000 crores. I presume a part of it towards JV, mining, et cetera, et cetera. So if you could provide some breakup with respect to those numbers, that would be great.

So the indications, I think you're talking about INR 2,20 or odd is the -- you're talking about the future for 62 million tonnes. Those are not approved in the board yet. What you are getting in the slides in the investor presentation of INR 130,000 crores is the currently approved, which are there for our operations across all the locations.

This includes JV, mining everything?

This includes everything, growth, mining, downstream operations, cost-saving projects, all of them put together. The projects which will further get added on to this, like Orissa Phase II. Orissa Phase I is included, Orissa Phase II, our Salav, our Orissa Phase III or any other equity investments in our operations of expansions in JJSL or in ASCO. Those all would get added. In addition to that, our investments once we rectify fully into our mining operations, if any of them gets added, would further add. And downstream operations as we add capacity, we'll add downstream operations. Those will all get added. And as and when it is approved, we'll come back to you and give you the numbers.

Sure. And sir, just last one. We haven't spoken about the Maharashtra Gadchiroli that you have 25 million tonnes that we have. Can you provide some light over here with respect to the underlying land and/or -- and the time lines? .

As now there is no update. We had indicated that Maharashtra Gadchiroli is one of the sites under consideration because of the availability of iron ore in that region. And we have on mining lease, which we have had won in the auction. That's still in the early stage of evaluation and the mine evaluation is going on. we will come back with further updates as and when we have. As of now, there is no change. .

Our next question comes from the line of Amit Murarka with Axis Capital.

On JSW coated, I have last few quarters, you see that the per ton EBITDA has consistently been around INR 6,000 earlier there used to be a range of 3% to 5%. So I just wanted to understand like what is driving this steady improvement in margins in coated and like what is the outlook over there? .

So our win of the core rate is basically the value-added space of JSW Steel, all the coated products are under JSW coated mostly in addition to some, we have facilities in vijayanagar as well. Our effort has been to see that we build up capability of high grades and more of specialty products, which is able to meet both the industrial, the automotive as well as the consumption retail demand. This has started bearing fruit. The temperate capabilities also the packaging sector is doing well. Our branded products, which we have been launching, including the JSW Silver on for Galvalume has gained a lot of traction. In color, apart from our JSW color on, which is the highest selling color brand, JSW [indiscernible] is also doing very well in the color space and getting a premium with is competition. All these initiatives put together, I think, is improving the overall value. In addition to that, we have taken various measures to improve cost efficiencies in the overall business. .

Sure. So fair to say the run rate of margin and EBITDA look sustainable then .

I would say, sir, there is -- there could always be some lags with respect to the hot rolled coil price increase versus the impact of prices going into the end new segment because the coated is more towards the end segment. But I would say a range of between INR 5,000 to INR 6,000 per tonne is good. The zinc and aluminum prices is another factor which we need to consider as a variable. And in the recent case also the aluminum has been on the higher side because of the Middle East conflict. So that can also impact your overall cost. .

Sure. And just another question on the same quarter. You said that the realization is a bit volatile. But given that coking coal is up and spot prices are down for rebar, like 2Q spreads, like in the previous quarter, I think you had given a guidance on cost and spreads like could you ballpark at least indicate what kind of spreads movement, could it be down 2,000 to 3,000 per tonne in second quarter?

Seasonally, July, September is a quarter where you do see some movement of prices. But I think in July, the long product prices, I feel has more or less played out. the flat product prices have seen some moderation in the past quarter. Difficult to say whether it will moderate more in this quarter. But I would look at it from the perspective that the next quarter, we will have better leverage from better operating capacity. The BF03 will ramp up. Ohio operations will be better. So the absolute volume and the leverage thereof because of that on the cost would help us. Iron ore prices have gone down in the recent past, benefit of that towards the latter part of quarter 2 should be -- should come in, and that would basically offset some of the coking coal cost increase, which we are likely to see. On the price side, I think I would not hazard a guess at this point in time. if there's anything which we are able to guide you on, our Investor Relations will circle back to you.

Our next question comes from the line of Raashi with Citi.

Just continuing with the last question. On the pricing, would you be able to give a sense of where spot is versus the last quarter now for you.

I would say from a flat steel point of view, the spot may be on an average from the starting of -- if I give hot rolled as a reference, the starting to closing of June would be about INR 1,000 lower. In the month of July, I think we will still see the prices playing out. There could be a little bit more impact in this month. However, on long impact has been far more. We have seen a drop from the beginning of quarter 1 and especially in T&D to the end of and now, to some extent, in July. So the spot prices in D&T specifically is much lower than what we started within the quarter 1 beginning. It would be in the range of about INR 7,000 to INR 8,000 in TMT. On the hot roll side, I would say it's more -- the price is on an exit price between quarter 4 and quarter 1. The hot roll prices went up by INR 1,000. And I think it may marginally moderate from here, but I don't see too much of a moderation on the flat prices. wire rod -- sorry, just to finish on the long side. I think wire rod, the exit price of June we have seen an impact of about INR 750, INR 1,000 per ton.

So the INR 7,000 to INR 8,000 crore that you mentioned, the decline in the TMT prices, that is from the beginning of the first quarter to now?

March exit to June exit. Spot to spot.

Okay. Secondly, on the volume side, our domestic volume growth, I mean, while your overall year-on-year increased 4%. Domestic volume growth has been only 1% and has been increasing in spots, just entirely attributed to weakness in loans or even flat volumes?