Kilburn Engineering Limited (522101) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you all to the Q3 and 9 months FY '25 post earnings conference call of Kilburn Engineering. Today on the call from the management, we have with us Mr. Ranjit Lala, Managing Director; Mr. Amritanshu Khaitan, Director; and Mr. Sachin Vijayakar, Chief Financial Officer. As a disclaimer, I would like to inform all of you that this call may contain forward-looking statements, which may involve risks and uncertainties. Also, a reminder that this call is being recorded. I would now request the management to detail us about the business and performance highlights for the quarter, the growth plans and vision for the coming year, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. Over to the management team.

Thank you, Vinay. Good afternoon, and welcome to Kilburn Engineering Limited Q3 2025 earnings call. We are pleased to share our key updates and financial highlights with you today. Kilburn has successfully completed the acquisition of Pune-based Monga Strayfield on Jan 27, 2025, which is now a 100% subsidiary of Kilburn. The acquisition strengthens our presence in India and abroad and develops our capability in drying solutions based on RF, that is radio frequency technology. The unit at MIDC Ambernath has been handed over to us and is now registered asset of Kilburn. We are working on ramping up the operations, and we anticipate achieving full utilization by June 2025, which will significantly increase our capacity and efficiency. The ME Energy expansion is another significant achievement for the quarter. The first phase of ME Energy's expansion in Pune has been completed and the second phase is already underway. This will further enhance our thermal solutions and capabilities and position us for growth in the thermal energy space. We have also now shifted to our new corporate office at Kanjurmarg in the second week of Jan 2025. As also mentioned in our previous calls, Kilburn was awarded an export order by Jessa in Q3 for the supply of rotary dryers to be installed at OCP Morocco, the largest producer of rock phosphate. This marks the single largest order ever awarded to Kilburn, establishing a strong global footprint. The value of the order is $15 million. Quarterly results. Now let's briefly review our quarterly results, which has already been available in the public domain. Kilburn's standalone revenue for Q3 reached INR 91.1 crores with an EBITDA margin of 24.6%. This reflects a convincing operational performance despite certain delays. On a consolidated basis, including ME Energy, our revenue was INR 108.27 crores with a 21.68% EBITDA margin, further reinforcing the growth of the group. As on December 31, Kilburn's order book stands at INR 368 crores with ME Energy at INR 41 crores, bringing the group total to INR 409 crores. In addition, we have also bagged orders over INR 35 crores at group level in the current quarter so far. We continue to see strong interest in our offerings with a current inquiry pipeline of over INR 2,000 crores, which includes INR 1,400-odd crores for Kilburn and INR 600 for ME Energy across different verticals. Given the cleared orders, which were on hold by customers in the previous 2 quarters and some revenue spillover into the next financial year, we expect the current fiscal year to have a turnover of between INR 450 crores to INR 500 crores. One order still remains on hold and is expected to be cleared in the next quarter. We are largely on track on the revenue front despite the delays caused by these old orders. We remain confident of maintaining a margin of 20% for the current fiscal year at group level, thanks to a diversified order book and strong project pipeline. Looking ahead to the new financial year, we remain optimistic about opportunities in critical sectors like fertilizer, nuclear, metal recovery and soda ash. With our strong foundations and ongoing expansions, we expect to continue driving growth and delivering value to our stakeholders. With that, I would now hand it over back to Vinay.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take the first question from [ Aman Soni ].

Sir, my question is on the comp guidance for this financial year is INR 500 crores, but you have now achieved only INR 290 crores in the first 9 months. Given the company total order book is around INR 400 crores, how do you plan to achieve the remaining INR 200 crores in Q4? And also with the lower order inflow, what gives you confidence in achieving this INR 700 crores revenue target for FY '26?

So as I mentioned, we are expecting a revenue of INR 450 crores to INR 500 crores in the current financial year. We are confident of achieving that because we have a strong order book. When you look at the carry forward, we expect it to be in the range of INR 400 crores in the next financial year, let's say, around INR 390 crores to INR 400 crores. And we will also have a few orders coming in the next, let's say, 45 days and the first quarter of next year. Putting all this together, definitely, we are well poised to be in the range of INR 650 crores to INR 700 crores at the group level.

And this will also include the turnover of Monga next year, Monga Strayfield.

If I can add, Aman, the 2 subsidiaries together should contribute close to INR 200 crores plus revenue next fiscal. So the Monga Strayfield acquisition, which has happened only this month in end of January, early February, you'll have very minimal turnover coming in, in this financial year, maybe INR 10 crores, INR 15 crores. But next financial year, Monga Strayfield should contribute anywhere between INR 90 crores to INR 100 crores of revenue. So that is straightaway INR 100 crores added to this year's top line. On top of that, there will be growth in ME Energy and Kilburn. Mr. Lala mentioned there is one very large order which was kept on hold. That has resulted in us lowering our guidance for the current year, but that order will get into execution from the -- we are estimating somewhere in the second quarter of FY '26. So with that happening, you should see higher growth levels for Kilburn's top line on a standalone basis in the coming year. I hope that addresses your question.

We'll take the next question from the line of [ Sebastian Durai ].

Thank you very much for the excellent performance. I've been a shareholder for a very long time. And I get amazed after every quarter, you easily surpass at least my expectations. Sir, as far as I have seen this quarter, none of the critical industries on which you depend on have talked about any kind of slowdown. But still, sir, have you heard anything from any of your customers? Is there any -- so you actually mentioned that some of the projects where there was a pushback from the clients or delay from the clients, that has kind of started moving. So I was just wondering, other than those, sir, are you hearing any talk of any slowdown from any of your clients or any delay in tendering, anything, sir?

Well, not really. In fact, we are seeing a good inflow of the inquiries. And it has really kept us busy. Our marketing and sales team have been busy submitting offers to all our customers. Well, there are always some delays here and there, but that is something which is expected in the business.

Nothing out of the ordinary, sir?

No, not really. Not really. I think everything is fine as of now.

Great, sir. Good to know that, sir. Sir, you mentioned that finally, you have won that large order, $15 million. So generally, sir, I've seen that when an EPC player or a player like yourself, a company like yourself, when they start getting -- when they get the first large order, it opens a number of other doors for even bigger orders. So when do you see that inflection point coming for you? Do you need to complete the execution of this particular project and deliver and then showcase your delivery and capabilities before you start approaching bigger orders? Or will it happen in the meantime and much before the project is -- the delivery is made?

It should happen much before that. See what happens is that one thing is it gives -- I mean, it's a reference now that we have bagged this order. And we are already working closely with OCP, the end customer for some more opportunities. And these are very, very customized opportunities. It's something new for us as well. So that discussion is on. But anything that -- where we start a discussion, it takes some time to really culminate into an order. So that process is on. Meanwhile, we are working very closely with companies like L&T and others who have bid for various nuclear projects. So we are working closely with them as well. So those also should be coming in the next few weeks or maybe a quarter or so.

If I can just add, it's not -- the question is not about this being a single largest order. It is because OCP is setting up a new plant that this large order has come in terms of the number of dryers being supplied. Today, last year, we did get an order from Birla Carbon also for INR 80 crores which was for 6 lines being set up by them, 3 in Thailand and 3 in Andhra Pradesh. So question is not -- we are not an EPC player that we are going to have INR 200 crores, INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores single orders, which will be placed on Kilburn. We are largely an equipment solution provider. We are working on that. So you will find -- you might get 5 orders of INR 10 crores to INR 15 crores each or you may get someone who needs 5 lines or 6 lines being set up so their order becomes INR 100 crores or INR 70 crores. I think what Mr. Lala is also trying to highlight is that there are export focus, which the company is now doing, new areas and new industries are opening up, that will add overall an enhanced order book for the company.

Sir, one follow-up on this. As you mentioned, export opportunities that you are trying to pursue. So the guidance that you've given for the next few years and the broad vision, so have you accounted for all these new opportunities and new markets that you are entering or, let's say, the INR 700 crore number that is just the things you have 100% visibility on as of now?

See, we, first of all, don't give any long-term guidance as a policy. The guidance which has been given is factoring in what is the order book we are sitting on today. And we believe is fairly visible to us in the coming few quarters. And thereby, we are giving a guidance of a revenue between INR 650 crores to INR 700 crores, which we are confident of achieving in next financial year. Beyond that, what is the reason of the company that is a different thing, not a guidance.

Last question from my side. Sir, there's a lot of volatility in a number of commodities globally. So I was just wondering, again, sir, anything out of the ordinary that you are seeing, any impact on either the margins because of that positively or negatively that you are seeing? On the input cost side.

Ranjit?

No not on the input cost side, but well, if there is rupee depreciation and if some orders are in dollars, then you see a positive side of it. But most of our raw material comes from within India. I think as of now, hardly 6% to 8% we import as and when required. So I don't see that impact in any way.

We'll take the next question from [ Sagar Shah ].

First of all, congratulations to the entire team of Kilburn for such a performance in such uncertain times. And again, congratulations for the new corporate office also. I had some few questions regarding this quarter's performance actually. Now coming on to my first question was related to a little bit on the macro level. Just to add up on the last participant's question. On the macro level, in the last 2 quarters, this quarter as well as Q2, we saw almost -- we saw a slowdown. We saw a slowdown even in the average GDP of the country. So I know we are not totally affected to the -- as part of the basic economic performance. But are the end user industries like chemicals/pharma or soda ash, are they actually delaying their expansion plans due to this? What is -- can you share some outlook that what is the clients' behavior right now at this point of time to the slowdown that we are seeing right now?

To the best of my knowledge, I don't think there's a slowdown. And even if you find maybe some inquiries may be coming less on the carbon black side, but then you have a rise of inquiries on the nuclear side, on the soda ash side. So some of the other projects are definitely happening.

Just add, Kilburn, if you see the size of the company we are and the kind of new industries we are now marketing our products to or where dryers are being used for other end users, we are not facing any per se slowdown or effect of the so-called slowdown, which is being discussed. Our pipeline -- inquiry pipeline remains robust at around INR 2,000 crores. And the company is looking now to even focus a lot more on the export market, which is in the billions of dollars. I mean the total dryer market itself is $2 billion, $3 billion globally. So we are not so perturbed by all this talk about industry slowdown and stuff because we have a large number of industries we can address and there is enough and more inquiries coming in. Specifically, I would like to mention that companies like Tata Chemicals and other soda ash manufacturers have all announced their CapEx plans. And I don't think any of the private players are looking at any major postponement because people believe in the overall long-term story of India and its demand. So no one postpones CapEx for 6 months or 3 months just because of a certain situation today in the economy.

Now my next question was related to the Kilburn on a standalone level execution actually. In the last 3 quarters on the standalone level, we have clocked around INR 231 crores of revenue actually. And last year, it was INR 291 crores for FY '24. This I'm talking on the standalone level. Now on the standalone level, are we seeing any some sort of delay in execution from our own Kalyan plant? Or what exactly is the color? Because the guidance that you gave, it's pretty high for Kilburn on a standalone level actually. So that is why I wanted to know that what exactly whether there is a delay on the standalone level?

See, what we had given guidance on a standalone basis was around INR 380 crores, yes. And then we did inform in the last 2 quarters that there was an hold on a couple of projects, except one, all those holds have been taken off. So the execution has started. We may not reach that figure of INR 380 crores, but somewhere we are looking at, let's say, between INR 300 crores and INR 350 crores, we should be able to achieve that.

The orders that you are executing are pure rotary dryers or these are paddle dryers? Can you highlight about the product portfolio, sir?

It's a combination of all. We have new orders for paddle dryers. We have existing orders for rotary dryers. We have for rotary kilns. So it's a combination. Most of them are rotary dryers and most of them are not standalone equipment. They are along with the balance of plant. So it's just a combination.

Now coming on to my third question was related to ME Energy. ME Energy normally Q4 is very strong actually. And this year, we saw -- we have clocked around INR 69 crores for ME Energy in the 3 quarters. So right now in the Q4 as various of their projects are sizable in nature and have a longer gestation period. So Q4, we can expect ME Energy to be much stronger as they have the bandwidth of the working capital in part of Kilburn also. So we can expect a Q4 growth for ME Energy as compared to Y-o-Y.

So if I can address that, Ranjit, you see ME Energy last year did approximate revenue of about INR 70 crores for the full year. In our balance sheet, only INR 20 crores came in because we acquired the company in the month of February. Against that, ME Energy should cross the INR 100 crore mark. So we are looking at between INR 100 crores to INR 110 crores in the current fiscal. So yes, quarter 4 will see a higher level of activity. There is no working capital constraint in ME Energy for the full last 1 year because it's been part of Kilburn even in the last 9 months. It is only the job flow the way it is and execution, we are seeing that quarter 4 should see a higher level of activity.

You can see even higher order inflows for ME Energy in the future in the next 1, 2, 3 years?

We do hope so. I mean the endeavor is for ME Energy to break into the larger cement space and also focus on larger accounts for waste heat recovery boiler systems. So obviously, there is a long road ahead for the company.

My last question, sir, was related to Monga Strayfield. Now with Monga on stream as on 27th Jan, so you have around 2 months as a part of this quarter and going ahead, since this is a very comprehensive portfolio for you because radio frequency dryers, it enables new streams in terms of FMCG and other sectors also. So can you highlight the strategy that how do you plan to integrate Monga's products into your own portfolio gate?

So Monga Strayfield will remain an independent organization. The company has a strong management. They have very strong relationships in the textile space, in the food processing space. They have a division which does a lot of sheet metal manufacturing, but very, very high-end sheet metal manufacturing largely for export to the U.S. It's still very early days, but we are going to look at leveraging the expertise on areas where Kilburn can get a benefit in terms of manufacturing, especially for sheet metal. And with the technology of radio frequency dryers and the traditional dryers, which Kilburn makes, we will get our R&D to develop combination dryers, which hopefully should get -- which will be work in progress. But in the next 1 year, you will see how the integration of the technologies can help our customer base, not all, but at least certain customers on some better product offerings. But it will take a bit of time for us to look at these areas. The business itself is seeing very strong demand. So Monga Strayfield revenue last year was around INR 60-odd crores. This year, they are looking at INR 80 crores, and we are looking at them crossing INR 100 crores next year. So it's a very profitable business. And I think their product range is highly suitable for them to get a higher market share in the radio frequency business.

We'll take the next question from [ Vinay Nagole ].

First of all, congratulations for good numbers in this low market. So I wanted to understand the nuclear opportunity for us, like in the air cooling units you are providing, how many players are there? What can be the order sizes? And currently, how much we are doing and in future, how much we can do?

Well, I would say there would be 2 to 3 players who would qualify for these kind of businesses. And as of now, in the recent past, we haven't done. We have references from the past for wafer recovery units and coolers for the nuclear power plants. So order sizes can be anything from INR 30 crores to INR 50 crores.

And how big are the orders that we are expected to come because government is very upbeat about nuclear. So how -- so currently, we are not doing anything. But how big can this portion of -- be for us, like just a ballpark figure?

I think to begin with, if the first couple of orders come and they would be in the range of up to INR 50 crores. So that would be the starting point, and let's see how it goes forward.

And I wanted to understand about waste re-heaters for cement. So I think so that will start in FY '27. So what would be the size and what would be the market size for this size of orders for us?

Well, I think first, let us -- are you talking about the ME Energy portfolio or for the Kilburn side?

ME Energy. ME Energy.

ME Energy. Well, ME Energy is already bidding for a couple of large projects. They have got one with Shree Cement as well. And I think once they have that reference, I think some more should be coming. But meanwhile, they are bidding for some more projects. So I can expect 2 to 3 projects in the coming year.

But the size of the projects because last time...

Vinay, regarding cement, there are different equipment which ME is looking at. They are in the range of INR 7 crores to INR 10 crores, which currently they are working on. But the larger waste heat recovery boiler system, which is a INR 5,000 crore industry, I think that will take some time. Hopefully, by FY '27, we should be able to at least get 1 or 2 large orders. Typically, those are INR 70 crores to INR 80 crores each.

So those single orders can be almost equivalent to our current revenue, more or less.

That's right.

And now we've got a huge order from Morocco, this rotary tire for rock phosphate. So can we see multiple such orders or this is a one-off?

So in OCP, this is the plant #29, which is being set up. They, I think, have multiple number of dryers being used, historically. Once we are in working with OCP and Jessa, we are very hopeful to work with them on being their continued preferred partner for the drying systems and see where that business takes going forward. We've had similar relationships in the carbon black industry where Kilburn has been a preferred supplier to PCBL and Birla Carbon for many, many years. So we hope we can have similar type of relationship built with the OCP Group in Morocco.

And one last question. I just -- in the presentation, it was given that we are looking at pharmaceuticals and recycling as a new space. So can you give a brief about what are the products and what is the size we are looking at?

So we are currently doing a project for granules, which is informed to you earlier. And that is the first project that we have bagged recently. So once that gets completed, I think we'll have good reference and the project sizes could be anything from INR 40 crores to INR 50 crores. It all again depends on the size of the plant or equipment. And these are rotary kilns. That is for the pharma industry. Can you repeat your second question, what it was?

Recycling.

Recycling. So we are talking about metal recycling. We had executed an order for Rubamin, and that was for the metal recycling. And we are currently bidding for a couple of projects. I cannot give further details of what they are, but similar to what we have executed, and we are in advanced stage of discussions. So we expect that also to come in the next 2 quarters.

We'll take the next question from the line of [ Darshil Zaveri ].

Firstly, congratulations on a great set of results so really great to see that. Just so wanted to talk a bit about our FY '26 plan. So from what I understood, we are planning nearly INR 100 crores of revenue from ME and INR 100 crores from Monga and around INR 450 crores, INR 500 crores from Kilburn. Is that like a fair assumption, sir?

Yes, you can say so.

Yes. So currently, on a standalone in Kilburn, we are planning INR 300 crores, INR 350 crores. And so INR 500 crores, what is the pathway to reach that? Because even with the current order inflow, we'll not be able to reach that, right? So just wanted to reconcile those 2 figures because INR 300 crores to INR 450 crores jump would also be like a 40% plus, right?

Right. So when you look at the order -- I mean, we expect to close the order book for Kilburn in the range of, I would say, INR 375 crores to INR 400 crores. And there would be more orders coming in the next 45 days plus in the next 2 quarters. So these will have to be executed over a period of next 1 year or so or 1.5 years that we say or rather before the end of next financial year. So we expect that we should be in that range of INR 450 crores to INR 500 crores. That is on the order intake front. On the capacity front, we had informed you that our Ambernath factory itself is capable of giving us some revenue of INR 100 crores, and we expect that to be achieving 100% capacity by middle of the year. So we are well on track on that. And for the rest, we have the Saravali works. I think overall, we should be able to manage.

And sir, just wanted to know like ME Energy, it's a very exciting business. So in terms of our growth out there, so I think this year we'll do INR 100 crores. So what are the other potential areas like where do we see this business because it feels like a great area to be in, sir?

So if I can address that, you see ME Energy has 2 big areas of growth. One area is the waste heat recovery boiler system market for cement. That's INR 5,000 crores annual market. Whenever we break into that segment, I believe we should add about INR 100 crores revenue conservatively to ME Energy. Now which year that will happen, with which cement company we will be able to do that, it's a matter of guessing. But hopefully, by FY '27, we should at least get significant orders from the cement industry coming in. Now if you look at the traditional business of ME Energy, which is the boiler system for various other industries plus whatever work they do with Britannia on the oven baking systems for biscuits and also working now with Monga Strayfield because there could be synergies between the 2 companies. I personally think they should continue to grow at 30% to 40% CAGR as they expand their product reach into more industrial players. But the really big ticket growth would come in once they break into the cement space. So I think we need to wait another year for that.

And sir, overall right now, we are total 3 basic companies. So all of them will have like similar margins? Or how will the margin differential play out?

So margins, if you see last few quarters, Kilburn will have the highest margins. I expect Monga Strayfield to be close to that and ME Energy to be a bit lower. One of the reasons why ME Energy margins are also a bit lower is that sometimes certain jobs being given to Kilburn and then outsourced to ME. So I don't think it is best to look at ME separately, but to look at the consolidated margins because sometimes ME Energy's factory will be used also to do job works for Kilburn at a lower margin. So it's better to look at a consolidated group margin, which we are guiding for to be in the 20% plus range rather than focusing on separate entity margins because one synergy benefit we are getting is to leverage the plant facilities across the group now, to see what is best suited for manufacturing.

And just wanted to understand now Monga we are going to consolidate so in the next year, we might be streamlining a lot of things. So are there some plan or strategy like maybe the margins go more because a lot of new costs we might add or subtract over there.

As we mentioned, if we are able to grow at the pace we are growing and maintain 20% plus margins, I think that itself will reflect very heavily on the P&L account and balance sheet. There will be obviously cost increases because we'll be hiring people, but there will also be economies of scale because the turnover is also going up. So taking everything into consideration, we believe if we are able to maintain 20% plus margin, I think we should report some healthy numbers going forward.

We'll take the next question from the line of [ Varun Agarwal ].

Congratulations, Mr. Lala and team for the consistent performance. So it's good to see Mr. Joshipura joining our team as an Independent Director. I just wanted to know what kind of guidance we can expect from him and whether we are looking at diversifying into new areas under his guidance.

Mr. Khaitan can you take that.

So we are very honored that Mr. Joshipura has agreed to join the Kilburn Board. His experience and expertise will add immense value, especially to Kilburn Engineering's Board in terms of giving guidance to the management team on steering its part on making the company into a larger enterprise. He had obviously run a very large enterprise in Praj and a lot of the best practices followed by him, his network, his contacts in terms of even helping us hiring better talent, all will come through. But he's not joining in an executive role. He's joining as an Independent Director. So keeping that in mind, I think we are really looking forward to his guidance and support in really taking Kilburn on its growth journey going forward. One more thing I can add is he's based out of Pune. The 2 acquisitions we've done are in Pune. So obviously, his local presence where 2 large investments of Kilburn have happened is always an added benefit, where we can approach him for guidance even for the subsidiaries.

We'll take a question from the chat box from [ Ayush Rathi ]. He's asking, is there any update on the titanium business? And are we seeing any traction on that?

Well, we are still executing the current order, which was for Reliance. And after that, we haven't really got an order, but we are working in multiple inquiries. So as of now, the clean room is like completely occupied. And I expect that in the coming quarter, we should get some more orders.

We'll take the next question from the line of [ Anand Soni ].

As per your guidance of 20% EBITDA margin for financial year '25. But in Q3 financial year '25, the EBITDA margin is around 25%. Is that not possible since most of the revenue for the full year is coming in Q4? Will the margin remain sustainable? Is there any advantage of operating leverage like.

So what we have always mentioned that we would be maintaining a 20% plus margin at the group level. What you mentioned 25% is for Kilburn, but for ME, it is slightly lower. And when we integrate Monga also into the group, we expect their margins to match with ours. So we should be in that 20% plus. If there's any upward revision, we will definitely keep you posted. But for sure, we're not expecting a downfall.

And sir, you are talking about the orders which will come in next 45 days. Sir, can you provide the range of that orders in terms of amount?

Well, I would say at the group level, we expect that we will close the order intake at INR 500 crores plus.

We take the next question from the line of [ Mehba Mishra ].

Congratulations for the good set of numbers. Sir, my question is regarding the exports. What is the current export contribution for 9 months of FY '25? And what can be the export contribution going forward after the acquisition of Monga Strayfield given its international presence.

Sachin, can you give your numbers as on date for the export, where do we stand? Sachin you will have to unmute yourself.

Presently it is around 15%, 20%. But with all this new orders from Morocco and other orders from Birla Carbon and Thailand and all coming and the revenue coming going ahead, this percentage is definitely going to increase. And Monga's exports are also on the higher side. As Mr. Khaitan said there are sheet metal 80% to 90% of the material is exported to U.S. So definitely, there is going to be a jump in the export percentage going ahead.

And sir, regarding Monga export, what about the margin? Are the margins same as domestic orders or margins on the higher side on the exports?

Well, definitely, they have reasonable margins. But on a company level, they would match somewhere what Kilburn is doing. Let me put it that way. It's very difficult to dissect individually the orders.

And sir, my next question will be regarding the expansion plans for Monga Strayfield and the CapEx for that. And sir, any other acquisition that we may be in the near future apart from these that we have done?

Well, for Monga Strayfield, we are not looking at expansion as of now, yes. If some investment is required in terms of machinery or something, we'll look into it as the year progresses. We've just acquired it. When it comes to acquisitions, I think we have maintained that we always look out for companies whose business kind of complements our business. And as and when we find the right buy, we will definitely go for it. Any new technologies or any new acquisition which we feel are adding value to our business, we'll definitely go for it. But as of now, we don't have anything to disclose.

And sir, regarding the revenue guidance for FY '26 actually, in the last con call, I think we had a guidance of around INR 700 crores to INR 750 crores. And this time around, we are having INR 650 crores to INR 700 crores, I think. So is there any change, I think, is there a downward revision in the guidance?

Well, it's a guidance. So it can keep fluctuating from time to time, yes. But we will do definitely between INR 650 crores to INR 700 crores for sure. And as and when we move forward, we'll keep you updated.

One last question, sir. This is regarding the ongoing tariff news and war that we are listening to. Is there any risk to our business regarding this 25% import tariff levied by the U.S. or this tariff war is it affecting us in any way?

It's too early to say. We'll wait for things to stabilize. I think the tariffs that have been spoken about for different countries, they have declared on day 1 then they're taking back on the other day. So we'll wait and watch. As of now, we are just focusing on our business and not really bothered about what's happening in that part of the world.

We'll take the question from chat from [ Abijith Mitra ]. What is the expected order inflow in Q4 FY '25 across Kilburn and ME Energy?

I said we will close the orders at INR 500 crores plus.

So they are asking about expected order inflow for Q4.

Well, I mean I think we've already booked close to INR 400 crores plus between ME Energy and Kilburn. So I mean, we are targeting to be above INR 500 crores. So I suppose anywhere between INR 100 crores, INR 150 crores, but we generally don't give a guidance on order booking. It depends on when which order gets concluded. We have a strong pipeline of inquiries. So I think let us restrict to an overall target of around INR 500 crores plus order booking because these things sometimes slip from one quarter to the other. So it's better we look at a little more longer-term visibility.

We'll take the next question from [ Yashvi Kamble ]. We will send her questions on chat. We will move to the next participant in the meanwhile, [ Dinesh Kulkarni ] you can unmute and ask your question.

Really good set of numbers. Congratulations on that. So as you mentioned that we are -- we have, let's say, opportunity in the exports somewhere around $2 billion to $3 billion. So I would like to know like what's our plan or how aggressive we are in terms of exports given the current geopolitical scenario?

Well, what we have said is the market size is around $2 billion to $3 billion or $4 billion. So it is not necessarily an opportunity for us. But definitely, there is a good opportunity. And well, our intent is that we expand our share of exports for sure. We have done well this year, and we expect it to continue in the coming years. So as Sachin mentioned, we might just touch 25%, 30% exports in the coming year based on the current order booking. We would like to increase that further.

That sounds great, sir. Sir, as you mentioned, like not much CapEx on the new acquisition. So can you just lay out what would be our average CapEx for the next 2, 3 years for group companies?

Well, acquisition would not be a part of CapEx. CapEx would be something which we are investing in each of the organizations. Our current CapEx, which is expected would be for ME Energy expansion of the -- this is the second phase of expansion, okay? That could be maybe around INR 5 crores to INR 10 crores, let's see. Then as of now, we don't see any CapEx for Monga, okay. Maybe in the next quarter, we can answer that better. For Kilburn, we are working on plans, how we can further enhance our current facility. And probably by the next quarter, we should be able to give you a real number.

We'll take a question from chat that Yashvi has posted. What would be the possible size of the Indian dryer market? And what would be our market share there? Also, how the industry has grown around you? In your assessment with these 2 acquisitions, what would be our TAM in the domestic market and in the global market?

What would be the size of the dryer market in the country? Again, it's very difficult to give numbers, what is the size. But I can say that we are among the leading players. When it comes to rotary dryers, rotary kilns and all we are among the top 2 or 3. For paddle dryers, we have dime a dozen players, and we don't operate in that market. We again give highly customized solutions and where I would say the order values are very high. Again, there, we are among the top 2 or 3. I can only give a subjective answer. It's very difficult to say what kind of share we have.

I think the market size, again, very, very broad-based, but Kilburn gets an inquiry of about INR 1,200 crores to INR 1,400 crores every year, and we would largely get the large inquiries. So a lot of the small scale dryer market is where we don't compete. So I suppose you can say the market could be anywhere between INR 1,500 crores to INR 2,000 crores in the Indian subcontinent. But again, we don't have any concrete data on that. I think if that addresses the question.

Sure, sir. And another part of the question was that in your assessment with these 2 acquisitions, what would be your total addressable market in the domestic market as well as in the global market, if you can answer that?

So the Monga Strayfield business itself has 2 segments. One is your sheet metal fabrication. Now that's a huge market. Again, no point putting a number, but they work on a very niche segment in that, largely focused on exports. The radio frequency dryer market is about INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores as a market size. So that is an addressable market for them. For ME Energy, again, the inquiry pipeline is INR 700 crores, INR 800 crores. You can -- and then you have the INR 5,000 crores cement waste heat recovery systems, which we are not yet in. So again, very, very large market for ME Energy to work on to capture in terms of at least get entry into those segments. So a lot of opportunity. So combined addressable market would be very, very high for Kilburn as a whole.

And another question was, what is the total goodwill we will book through the acquisition of Monga Strayfield?

We are working on it because we have just closed the deal. So it depends on the closing of the balance sheet. So we will -- during the next quarter, we will address this question.

Okay, sir. Also, there is one more question from her side. The current warrants are due for conversion in FY '26, then we will have another INR 120 crores to INR 140 crores of cash next year. Where will the excess cash be used?

So whenever any inflow will come in due to the equity raise which has happened, it will be used as for what has been approved by the Board that has already been pre-decided as long-term working capital, some part as CapEx, some part will go for general corporate purpose, which could be any further acquisition and some part as repayment of long-term debt. So it's already pre-decided as per the SEBI norms, you have to decide on the usage of these funds.

We'll take the next question from Dinesh Kulkarni.

No, I think my questions have been answered.

Then we'll take the next question from [ Natik Mohta ].

Congratulations to you and the team for posting a good set of numbers. Just one question from my side. Across the 3 companies, Kilburn, ME Energy and Monga, if we have orders on hand for the entire year, what could be a peak revenue that we could do at almost 100% utilization?

It should be INR 700 crores to INR 750 crores.

Okay. So basically, that is what we are planning that next year, we will be running at almost 100% utilization.

And meanwhile, we have other plans also how we can enhance our capacities. We are working on that. I think by next quarter, we should be able to tell you something.

So basically, then we are -- after 2 lucrative acquisition, we are still in the market for some kind of acquisition to grow Kilburn inorganically?

Yes, we will keep looking out for opportunities. There's one question directly, which has been sent to me from [ Samrat Shah ]. It says he would like to know what is the current capacity utilization of the plants at Kilburn, ME and Monga. So I would say that current utilization at ME is 100%, I would say, and that's the reason of going for phase 2 expansion, yes. So that gives us opportunity for further capacities in the coming year. For Kilburn, we have 2 plants, one is Saravali and one is at Ambernath. Ambernath currently as on date is 50% utilized, and I expect it to be 100% utilized by June, which I mentioned in my opening statements. The Saravali factory also is around 70% to 80% occupied in terms of the existing orders. And we are seeing how to enhance it. So that is also very well on track. For Monga, I can comment on the 2 plants which they have, that is, I would say, 85% to 90% utilized, and they have one more plant for assembly, which I don't have the numbers right now. So that's how it stands. Samrat Shah, if you are on the call.

We'll take one question from chat from [ Ravindranath Nair ]. He says, what scope do you see in nuclear in percentage of project cost? Will we expand our manufacturing base at Bhiwandi after shifting to Kanjurmarg? And what is the cost involved in this office shifting?

Yes, that was the whole idea of shifting the corporate office to Kanjurmarg so that we can expand the facility at Saravali. And as said, we will try to give some more inputs in the next quarter. We have just started that process. On the nuclear front, as I said, we have opportunities for coolers, vapor recovery units and order sizes can be INR 30 crores to INR 50 crores to begin with. And we will be utilizing our existing facility for these orders which come in. I mean we are well placed for that in terms of having qualified as a supplier for these projects as well as our capacity. I don't find any challenge over there.

There is one more question in chat from [ Santosh Verma ]. Which industries are still untapped for us, which has high revenue potential, both domestic and global? In dryers, is there any technology or product which we are not present, but are in good demand from clients?

Yes, definitely, there are some technologies which we are looking at. And this would be for recycling of EV batteries and all those things. We are seeing how to work on that. So we are looking at tying up with some companies over a period of time. Then for the cement market also, we are looking at RDF dryers. We are seeing how we can build that technology in-house or have some tie-up. So we are working on various things. And I think as and when we crystallize things, we'll keep you posted.

There is a follow-up question from Ayush Rathi. Sir, a broader question on the cement industry recently. We have observed price hikes indicating a potential shift in the industry cycle. Additionally, cement companies have been highlighting an increase in the capital expenditure. Given this backdrop, do you foresee a higher revenue contribution from ME Energy exceeding INR 100 crores? And also is this INR 100 crores the peak utilization level? Or is there potential for further upside?

Well, I think that was partially answered by Mr. Khaitan. Definitely, we are looking at increasing ME Energy's share in the cement industry. And that's why all these expansion plans are in place. So we expect a higher revenue over a period of a year or so. The idea is to take it to INR 150 crores and then INR 200 crores and gradually, we will go forward. But don't expect an orbital jump every quarter or every year. We will gradually get there.

We'll take one last question from Ravindranath Nair. It's follow-up question.

Sir, one question regarding this industry that as far as you said that the industry size is around possibly around INR 2,000 crores. And we are present largely in the rotary dryer and there are other dryer market the spray and also the drum dryer, the fluidized based dryer is also one of the applications. We are not having any presence there?

Yes, we have presence in FBDs and VFBDs. If you go to our website, you will get to know more about our products. We have also supplied spray dryers, but we are looking how we can further enhance the technology. And we are working on that. Wherever we are not present, we are trying to see how we can get those technologies, provided they contribute in a big way.

But as of now, the fluidized based dryer is not contributing significantly to the order book?

That depends on what kind of inquiries we get. But VFBDs is one of the big contributors from the tea industries. Anything between INR 25 crores to INR 50 crores we get orders every year. And I'm giving you a broad range.

And you mentioned about this just total market size after these 2 acquisitions because ME would be having heat exchanger along with the waste heat recovery system. And this is RF dryer and also sheet metal system. So combiningly, our total market size with -- currently, we are addressing with the dryer market INR 2,000 crores, what would be our size? Will it be more than INR 10,000 crores or INR 11,000 crores? Any ballpark figure in the Indian market, can you give us?

Well, size depends on the opportunities that exist in the market. So as Mr. Khaitan said, normally the big inquiries do come to us. So at any point of time, we are having inquiries of INR 2,000 crores to INR 2,500 crores. I mean that keeps fluctuating. And that is constant.

No, I'm not talking about dryer market. I'm just talking about the 2 other companies' market.

The 2 other companies.

So Monga Strayfield, as I mentioned, RF dryer market is about INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores. And then you have the sheet metal fabrication. That is huge. It doesn't mean anything because they are working on a very niche part of it. And when you talk about ME Energy, the overall waste heat recovery boiler market could be a couple of thousand crores. But again, there is no concrete data available. And then you have the cement waste heat recovery boiler market, which is INR 5,000 crores.

So that means combining, we can address our market share would be addressable market is 5x from the current level.

That's correct. Provided we get the breakthrough into those segments.

So this was the last question for the day. I would request the management to give any closing comment for the call, if any.

Yes, I would say that our performance has been consistent. There could be some blocks here and there, but we stay focused on what we have to achieve. Our target is still to be in the range of INR 700 crores to INR 750 crores in the coming financial year. And we'll definitely ensure that we create value for the shareholders. I mean that's our focus. That's our target. There could be ups and downs over a period of time, but that's something which we should overcome time and again. Anything from Mr. Khaitan? Sir, would you like to say anything?

No, I would say you summed it up. I think we are in a very exciting phase of growth for the company. Obviously, next 12 months, we will see integration with Monga Strayfield and how we can leverage that company going forward. And a more exciting activity will be for ME Energy as well on how we pursue entry into larger spaces like cement. I think with that, we still look for a very strong year going forward, and we are thankful for all the support of all our stakeholders, our employees, our bankers and all the shareholders. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Thank you to all the participants for joining in for the call. And thank you to the management team for giving us detailed answers to all the questions. This brings us to the end of today's conference call. You may all disconnect now. Thank you.