Kimco Realty Corporation (KIM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

2026 Global Property CEO Conference. I'm Nick Joseph here with Craig Mailman with Citi Research. Pleased to have with us Kimco and CEO, Conor Flynn. This session is for Citi clients only, and disclosures have been made available at the corporate access desk. To ask a question, you can raise your hand or go to liveqa.com and enter code GPC-26 to submit any questions. Conor, we'll turn it over to you to introduce your company and team, provide any opening remarks, tell the audience the top reasons that investors should buy your stock today, and then we'll get into Q&A.

Thanks very much for having us. With me today is Glenn Cohen, our CFO; and David Bujnicki, our Head of IR and Strategy. Thank you for having us. We really appreciate your time. 2025 was a breakout year for Kimco and a clear validation of our strategy. We delivered record operating performance, strengthened by the durability of our earnings profile and further enhanced by our balance sheet and financial flexibility, all while navigating a period of elevated market volatility and uneven REIT sentiment. At a high level, our results reflect a combination of strong fundamentals, disciplined capital allocation and a portfolio positioned in the right locations for long-term growth. From an operating standpoint, performance across the portfolio was exceptional. Leasing demand stayed strong all year, with over 12 million square feet leased. The fourth quarter alone saw the highest new leasing volume in more than 10 years. We achieved all-time highs in portfolio occupancy, finishing the year at 96.4%, while small shop occupancy also reached a record of 92.7%. Anchor occupancy finished at 97.9%, up 90 basis points and marking our best quarterly increase ever. That leasing activity translated directly into embedded future growth. Our signed but not open pipeline expanded to a record level, representing approximately $73 million of future annual base rent. This gives us clear visibility into NOI and earnings growth through 2026 and beyond and even with portfolio occupancy already near peak levels. Financially, we delivered strong earnings growth. FFO per share increased nearly 7%, marking our second consecutive year of growth exceeding 5% and same-site NOI grew 3%, supported by accelerating rent commencements, limited new supply and sustained tenant demand. Importantly, tenant credit quality across the portfolio remains solid. Exposure to challenged retailers is limited and retention continues to hover at all-time highs, around 90%. All of this reinforces a key point. While public market sentiment around REITs fluctuated throughout the year, the underlying fundamentals of our business remained extraordinarily strong. Capital allocation was another important driver for value for us in 2025. We are active and opportunistic across multiple fronts. During periods of market dislocation, we repurchased shares near 52-week lows at an implied FFO yield of approximately 9%, reflecting our confidence in the durability of our cash flows and the disconnect we saw between public and private market valuations. At the same time, we advanced our capital recycling initiative, monetizing low-growth assets at attractive private market pricing and redeploying that capital into higher growth opportunities at a positive spread. A meaningful component of this strategy is our portfolio of long-term ground leases, which represent roughly 9% of pro rata base rent and are highly valued by private buyers given their credit quality and stability. Recycling that capital into grocery-anchored centers with stronger growth profiles enhances both our current yield and our long-term earnings power. Our structured investment program continues to differentiate Kimco. By providing mezzanine capital while securing rights of first refusal or offer, we generate attractive current returns and gain proprietary access to high-quality assets. Investments realized to date have generated an average unlevered IRR of nearly 12%, and the platform continues to serve as a recurring source of off-market acquisition opportunities. Overlaying all this is a balance sheet that we believe is a true competitive advantage. In 2025, we received an A-level credit rating upgrade from both S&P and Moody's, placing Kimco among a small group of REITs with an A- or A3-level credit ratings from all 3 major agencies. We ended the year with more than $2 billion of immediate liquidity, net debt to EBITDA of approximately 5.4% and strong and growing free cash flow, around $165 million in 2025 after dividends and leasing costs. This financial flexibility allows us to invest through multiple cycles while maintaining discipline and protecting our downside risk. We're also continuing to evolve how we operate the business. In 2025, we established the Office of Innovation & Transformation to enhance enterprise integration and improve execution. This group is focused on increasing data visibility, streamlining processes and leveraging technology, including artificial intelligence and advanced analytics to improve leasing insights, capital allocation decisions and overall operating efficiencies. These tools are already helping our teams move faster, allocate capital more effectively and reinforce margin durability over time. We continue to strive for ways to become more efficient and remove costs. In early 2026, we announced the transition to a more functionally aligned asset-centric operating model. This evolution is designed to flatten the organization, clarify accountability at the asset level and enable faster decision-making across leasing, asset management and capital deployment, while still maintaining strong local market expertise. As we look ahead, we believe Kimco is exceptionally well positioned. We're entering 2026 with strong operating momentum, clear visibility into embedded growth, limited new supply in our core markets and multiple internal and external growth levers to drive earnings and value creation. Our portfolio remains anchored by essential grocery-anchored retail and first-ring suburban locations, markets characterized by dense populations, strong household incomes and significant barriers to new supply. Supported by a strong balance sheet and disciplined capital allocation, we believe Kimco is designed to perform across multiple cycles while compounding value over time. With that, we're happy to take a deeper dive into the opportunity and further answer any questions you might have. I think the top 3 reasons for buying Kimco stock today: Number one would be valuation. We've been a top performer in terms of earnings growth the last 2 years, and we sit at the very bottom of our sector in terms of multiple. Number two would be multiple levers for growth. Our earnings growth is compounding year-over-year. We did, as I mentioned, 5% in 2024, over 6% in 2025. And we have multiple drivers of growth for this year and beyond, as I told you about our recycling of flat ground leases, the entitlement program that's starting to bear fruit as well as a huge SNO pipeline that we plan to bring online fast to drive earnings growth. And then third is the capital allocation differentiators that I outlined. We have showcased that we will buy back stock when we think it's the best risk-adjusted return of our capital. We have $160 million of free cash flow that we can use to focus on where we can accretively invest that in addition to the $300 million to $500 million of dispositions that we plan to take to market this year to showcase the disconnect between public and private valuation and use it the best way possible to make the best risk-adjusted returns. With that, I'll turn it back to you.

Great. Thank you. In your opening remarks, you touched on AI and Kimco's deployment of it and some of the opportunities that you've seen thus far. Where is the opportunity from here? How are you thinking about either on the top line or expense savings? And how do you actually go about finding those solutions? Is it building it internally? Is it buying? Is it partnering? How are you thinking about that?

Yes. So it is a good question. I think when we saw the opportunity set, that's why we transitioned and really put a leader in place that understands the Kimco workflows. And so when you have a leader of operations in that position, you can make capital allocation decisions and buy both off-the-shelf and self-developed tools that are really going to automate and create major efficiencies in the organization going forward. That's why we thought we really had to make that change early, to really start identifying where there's a real case study and a return on investment that we can justify. So thus far, what we found, the clear wins for us have been on the marketing side, when you use the AI tools to really self-generate -- we do a lot of entitlement work as we talked about. We now have 14,000 units entitled. When you go into municipalities, you can really deliver a wonderful marketing package by using AI to showcase what the shopping center can look like in the future. Also, we use AI agents to procure new leasing opportunities, specifically with small shops, using social media. It's generated a lot of leads for us. And that's what's really, I think, helping us drive all-time highs in small shops. We also use it in legal for documentation and really sort of using it to expedite the construction approval process. There are tools that you can use now to really sort of condense how long it takes to get construction approvals. As you know, we have a lot in our SNO pipeline that we have to build out. And as soon as we can get that done faster, the sooner we can have better earnings. And so those are really sort of the wins on the operating side. Glenn, do you want to talk a little bit about the accounting side?

Sure. So we've been using for the last several years, a tool where we actually enter our leases into this RPA process where it's actually reading 150 different fields from the lease without any human touching it. And it's automatically getting entered into our ERP system. So it's really super efficient. It's cut down on thousands of hours of lease abstraction. And then we just have checks and balances around it, but it's been very, very efficient, and it's just a fast way to get the leasing done in a much more efficient manner.

So I think it's both. I think it's operational efficiencies. I think it's output. I think it's condensing the leasing time line. Because all of those things are real KPIs for us and that we can use to really drive the business. I think everyone has probably experienced some level of chatbot already. They're going to get better. And they're going to get better in terms of interfacing with retailers that are already tenants in our shopping centers, that we have all of our data now organized, and we can utilize in a way where we can share whatever the data once it's protected on what we need from that data. So in essence, if you're a retailer in a shopping center, at some point in the near future, I could see a chatbot being able to interface with every single tenant we have and answer their questions without really any time on the Kimco side. The other piece of it is probably going to be you'll see the chatbots really sort of focus on leasing as well. As I mentioned, they're very good at finding lead generations and using sort of the tools and giving them directions of what we're looking for. But when you think about the CAD drawings we have for every single space in our 550-plus shopping centers and the thousands of leases we have, we have a lot of data. And once we get that data organized in a position where we can utilize it, I think scale is going to be a massive advantage, especially when you think about the leasing side of it because in essence, once we have it correctly identified and organized, that chatbot will be able to answer any leasing question you could possibly have on any space across the entire portfolio.

And what are you hearing from your tenants and retailers broadly about either the potential disruption or the opportunity that they're seeing from it?

Yes. They're taking an approach very similar to ours. When we talk to Walmart, when we talk to Target and Costco and Home Depot and others, it's very in terms of like system automation, that's really sort of the low-hanging fruit that everyone is very focused on. The accounting side obviously has some opportunities and I think the operations side as well. You're seeing it sort of ripple through maybe the commercial -- the services side of the business, as more of that gets automated. So I think there's a lot to see how effective it is. I think you still need a fact checker. Still need someone to screen and make sure your data is proprietary. But there's a lot of use cases that we've been testing, and a lot of them have shown early wins.

Yes. I would just add, we use Copilot pretty well through the entire organization. Everyone has access to it, which has been really, really helpful. And we're also developing some things that are really internal. So it's a combination of looking at bolt-on tools that exist as well as developing certain tools internally, which really help through the workflow, especially as we have all the data that we have, is being spread across the organization. It's just being able to read all of that. I mean you're able to look at like co-tenancy clauses amongst leases, tenant by tenant. There's so much application for it.

To stay on the topic a little bit. I don't want to overstay our welcome on AI. But from the products that you've seen and the database that you're building internally and the structure that you've changed now, right, with more regional kind of pushing it higher, do you ever see a scenario where like all your CAD drawings are in there and a tenant could just go in and take their prototype and have AI decide, "Well, we could actually shoehorn into this" and, right, almost cutting out the relationship piece of this? Or is that really giving AI too much credit, which is kind of -- it feels like where the headlines are going, that's going to be there tomorrow? I'm just kind of curious from your standpoint, realistically, having kind of the back-end side of it, what tenants have, like how hard is it to replace going to ICSC and sitting down with Walmart or Costco or Home Depot and walking through different site plans?

So the way we're thinking about it, and again, self-serving, so full disclosure, like we think about that the relationship is the most valuable piece. So owning the hard assets is going to be critical because in essence, the margin expansion, if you're able to cut out fees, enhances your margin, right? So if you have the relationship direct with that retailer, and you've seen us do package deals that's really a focus of ours to go out, sit with that retailer, sit with that partner, which we know has new store opening plans for '27 and '28 and showcase that, we can -- at Kimco, we can deliver what they need faster, cost effective and with a partner that they trust. And so in essence, showcasing that do the lion's share, allow Kimco to take market share by doing the most of your new leasing with us and using our tools and our effective platform to allow you to hit those new store opening plans. Sprouts is one that we've done a lot of package deals with, and we think they're a great operator. And you've seen our redevelopment really focus on grocery because we think as we've gotten to 86% grocery-anchored, a lot of what we can do is use those relationships to create a grocery-anchored shopping center versus going out and now bidding someone for a grocery-anchored shopping center.

So you have to thread the needle between cost savings, but not disintermediating your most valuable asset, which is a relationship.

Retail has always been a relationship business. Your relationship with these retailers are super important. The trust factor is super important. I think their data is going to get better. Their capital allocation decisions are going to get better. They're going to decide where they need to fill in the white space and where their customer lives. But I do think that there's a relationship trust factor that goes into their decision-making on who -- in essence, who they're going to partner with to launch this new store. Many of them have been burned through different cycles with aligning themselves with undercapitalized partners that can't deliver on their promises.

Just circling back to sort of the fundamental piece. You mentioned you guys are doing more packaged deals with tenants, but at the same time, you're hitting record lease rates, right? And so as you try to upgrade tenancy with some of these national retailers, get to the mark-to-market, how much of an opportunity is there to do some of those deals that can really kind of hit at it quickly versus the reality of your long-term leases, can't get tenants out, right, and the usual obstacles?

Yes, it's a combination, I think. For the benefit and the negative, we have a weighted average lease term of around 7 years. And so we don't have as much volatility in sort of our rental streams as maybe other sectors do. So when you think about the mark-to-market on the Kimco portfolio, the anchors are somewhere between 30% to 50% below market. That's a lot different than other sectors or maybe they're at or even above market rents when leases roll. And so the beauty of having no new supply is there's virtually nowhere for them to go. And so if there's nothing being built that they can relocate to and there's no better economic deal than the store that's profitable and proven, when you get that mark-to-market opportunity on a lease that's at the end of its life, the likelihood is the retailer wants to stay because it's the best bet they can make. And so that's where you're seeing those incremental lease spreads of 30% to 40%, where we're really starting to be able to push pricing power. And if you remember, most of my career has been when the retailer has had the negotiating leverage. And so the vintage of most of these leases are when the retailer has dominated the conversation. And so it's changed. And so we're showcasing that in our numbers, and we're taking advantage of that where we can because in essence, these stores are extremely profitable. When you layer on the e-commerce sales that are coming in and out of the store, the stores continue to generate the best risk-adjusted return for these retailers. And that's why you're seeing everyone, including Amazon, reinvest in their store fleet with Whole Foods and others being like launched as new store formats.

And on that, with the success you guys have had and where the lease rate has gone, I'm curious, I know, Glenn, you've talked about it a bit, but, right, when do we peak out and the SNO pipeline peaks and then you start to actually get the tailwind from commencements? And what is an ideal spread between lease and occupancy once you hit that sort of frictional level of vacancy?

Yes. I mean we obviously have been doing an enormous amount of leasing coming off of the vacates of whether it be Party City, JOANN, Big Lots from last year. So a lot -- almost all of that space has been re-leased. It's brought our SNO pipeline to $73 million. It's the largest it's ever been. At the same time, our occupancy level is at an all-time high. So it represents 390 basis points. We actually see it growing a little further through the year. And I think it will peak towards the end of '26. And then you'll start to see it compress as we go into 2027. We're 180 basis points from our all-time high economic occupancy. So there's real room to continue to push. And as that comes online, we feel pretty good. 60% of the SNO pipeline is anchors. So as those anchors come online, we feel really good and confident about being able to continue to push the small shop occupancy as those anchor boxes get filled up. So we think there's really room to grow. Anchor occupancy today is at 97.9%. Our peak was 99%. So we know there's room there. And although the small shop occupancy is at 92.7%, we don't see why that can't continue to grow. And again, there's been a lot of activity on that side. So I think that you'll see it again, the SNO pipeline will expand a little bit further. And then in '27, it will start to compress. Historically, we've been under 200 basis points. So having it at 390, you can see that there's a lot of compression still to come.

And when you think about sort of the FFO growth that people want, but really the underlying cash flow growth is the most powerful piece. And so as that SNO pipeline peaks and compresses and you have 69% of that pipeline is anchors, how do you guys think about the CapEx spend and how that trends and how that -- should we expect AFFO to really start to accelerate in '27, '28, assuming we don't have another wave of bankruptcies and then that gives you that flywheel with cheaper retained capital, either you have to raise the dividend or you can do other things with it? So like as we -- assuming the cycle stays as it is, more new supply, good demand, the way that you guys have the trending with commencements, like how powerful is that CapEx savings and cash flow growth and then the reinvestment?

Yes. I mean it is very powerful, to your point. I mean, today, it's around 20%, 21%. As we go through this year and get everything online from the SNO pipeline, I think as you go into '27, '28, you're going to see that number come down into the upper teens, towards the mid-teens over time. So it will definitely come down. We're pretty focused on that. But again, if there's no major issue, you're going to see record level highs of occupancy and compressing CapEx costs as we go through time.

And I'm curious, I've asked some of your peers about this, and I know that -- and we've been part of this, too. The whole industry has pushed lower leverage safety post GFC. But one of the pushbacks for retail has always been -- well, it's very stable, but you don't get the excess growth because it's stable, right? And so you guys are running at low leverage, you have the investment-grade balance sheet, but you do have this tail of improving cash flow, lower CapEx. So from your standpoint, to the extent -- I know you guys are recycling capital as well. So you're not capital constrained by any means. But just the thought of running towards the higher end of your leverage level to juice FFO growth to kind of get out of the, right -- get out of the basement of the multiple towards the top again, knowing that you're going to have that cash flow to start paying it down over time as EBITDA hits. I'm just kind of curious internally, just the thought process on leverage and the benefits of being so strict to be within the rating agencies' highest level and the pricing there versus you guys have the size and scale. And so if you're a serial issuer, maybe going down a notch doesn't matter as much from a pricing perspective versus the earnings growth you can get from the deployment of that.

Yes. I mean, look, we spent a lot of time deleveraging the balance sheet. We used the bulk of our Albertsons gains that we had. We had a $150 million investment that we turned into $1.2 billion and used a large portion of that to delever the balance sheet to where it is. We don't need to delever any further. We're operating in the mid-5s net debt-to-EBITDA level. We think that's the appropriate level for us to operate. We did get upgraded this year by both S&P and Moody's to A-, A3. We're one of the only retail REITs that has an A- rating from all 3 rating agencies. We do think that gives us some advantage. We just put in a commercial paper program, which allows us to borrow at a pretty attractive level. We just renewed our $2 billion revolver, which you're a part of. Thank you. And again, at a lower rate. So there are a lot of advantages, we think, to having that A- level rating, and we're operating the business that way.

Yes. I think when you look at the earnings growth that we've driven over the past 2 years, we haven't levered up, right? And so we've been at the top of the sector for the past 2 years in terms of FFO growth, and we've gotten the balance sheet upgrade, which was sort of amazing to think about, like every KPI was hitting a historic high and yet our stock was hitting a 52-week low, all while cash cap rate compression was going on in the private market for our asset base. And so there was this major disconnect between public and private pricing, and that's where you saw us really lean into the share buyback at buying below $20 a share. So when you look at like the opportunity to lever up and really juice earnings, that probably would have happened when rates were $0. And so at Kimco, when rates were $0, we did 30-year bonds. We didn't do short-term floating rate. And so because this is a cyclical business, because we think longer term, because we know that this balance sheet is going to be tested in different parts of the cycle, we often try and think what's the best long-term play that's going to make us the most durable. And Kimco was one of the highest levered REITs for a moment of time. And so we had to make it a strategic priority, in my opinion, to get to the A-, A3, because that's a differentiator. That's one that you can point to and say, if you think we're overlevered, the rating agencies don't. And so in my opinion, this business is capital intensive, it's cyclical, and you need to have a really strong balance sheet in order to weather all the storms. And we've been -- we've seen many black swans, and we potentially might be in another one. So like we're in a situation where the business is really firing on all cylinders, and I think the balance sheet is a strength that we plan to keep.

Any questions from the audience, by the way? Okay. Going back to the disposition program, Ross isn't here to get the credit for it, but you guys have done a nice job of identifying sort of non-income-producing assets, selling them off. What's been the buyer appetite for that? Where are you seeing kind of bidding pools? How deep are they? And then just where have cap rates trended on some of the assets you're selling? Or maybe a better way to ask it, where do you think IRRs have trended if you back into kind of underwriting?

Yes. So for the 2026 year, we've outlined a disposition program of $300 million to $500 million. The low end of that guidance range, the $300 million, is really earmarked for flat ground leases. Those are the ones that, in essence, have a compound annual growth rate of 1% or below. And we see that as opportunity to accretively recycle because these are the Targets, the Walmarts, the Costcos, the Lowe's, the Home Depots that trade at very low cap rates. And we've sold a number of them in the mid- to low 5s. And we think there's a real nice accretive trade there where we can take that capital, go and buy a shopping center at 6%, 6.5%, but the compound annual growth rate spread is significant. The sub 1 versus 3 plus is a pretty meaningful compounding effect if you're able to do it year in and year out. And so we've identified that 9% is really something we can go after year in and year out. There's some operational things we need to do to get it ready for the market. Sometimes you have to separately tax parcel it. Sometimes you have to get the right length of the lease term to get over 10 years to really have it compress in terms of pricing. So in essence, it prices like a bond of that credit. And we feel like that's a real nice flywheel for us to jump on because we can do it again year in and year out and really start to showcase the embedded growth that we can generate from that trade. The other piece of the dispositions is we've taken some assets to market from the mixed-use portfolio. Some of the pricing appears that might be very aggressive for some of the multifamily we've built. We have yet to crystallize it. But we've never, in our opinion, gotten credit for the 14,000 units we've entitled, and we've built 3,000. So there is -- some units that are cash flowing. But what we plan to do is really start to crystallize that value creation, that IRR and take that -- those proceeds and invest it back in the business in the most risk-adjusted, best accretive way possible. So it could be buying back stock. It could be our structured investment program. It could be our redevelopments that are earning about 10% to 12% on invested capital. And these are multifamily units that we continue to think we can generate about $100 million of proceeds each year going forward and take those 14,000 units and really drive them through a program that activates about 2 per year, so that it will generate about $100 million of proceeds to Kimco over the next 3 years per year, and we can rent and recycle that again and again and again. And that would be on top of our $165 million of free cash flow because we're contributing the land with the entitlements as our marked-up basis, so as our capital. So in essence, it's not earning anything today. And then the multifamily partner will come in, develop it, lease it, stabilize it, sell it, and then we'll get that cash flow to go back and do whatever is the most accretive thing to do with that capital. So it's a nice opportunity for us to start crystallizing it, showcasing it to investors and saying, this is going to be something that's recurring, and so you should start to give us value for it.

And of those kind of 14,000 entitled units, where does it make sense to build given some of the supply issues in resi right now?

Yes, it's a good point. I mean we definitely lean on multifamily experts to identify where there's a market and understand that there's a lot of supply that's been built over the last few years, and they are still being absorbed in certain markets that are still pretty challenged. For us, we've done a number of deals in South Florida. We've done a number in Virginia. And so -- and we've done -- we now have active ones in San Francisco as well as one in Suburban Square in Ardmore, Pennsylvania. Because it's the complementary use, in essence, our thesis was always the multifamily will be priced at a premium because of the amenity base that our shopping center provides. So if you live in an apartment tower, the best amenity package you can possibly dream of is nowhere close to what a shopping center can offer because we have, in essence, 50-plus tenants that they would never be able to offer the same level of amenities. And we've seen that in all 3,000-plus units that we've built, we're charging premiums to market. And so we are generating this flywheel of a mixed-use community that we see resonating. And so identifying where there is oversupply and making sure we don't greenlight a project into a very tough market is super important to us. But we also know that we are not the experts there. We rely on really the local partner to determine really what the supply side looks like over the next 2, 3 years. Because remember, if you're greenlighting something today, you're looking at supply in '28.

And then on the acquisition side, you guys have had success recently either coming out of the structured finance program or, right, a marketed deal. What does the pipeline look like today in terms of competition and quality that fits the buy box?

Yes, it's very competitive. As you know, shopping centers have become sort of the private equity capital strategy of choice for a number of folks. If you think about Blackstone, their #2 priority is opening a shopping center. If you think about Bain, if you think about GIC. If you think about even some of the other big sovereigns that are looking at the space as well as Cohen & Steers doing direct JVs, GIC doing direct JVs, like there's a lot of capital on the private side chasing shopping centers. And it has been like that for the past 2 years. Most of the publics have been sidelined because of the cost of capital was impacted. So it is competitive. The last 2 years, you've seen us really focus on where we have a little bit of an advantage. And usually, that comes from a right of first refusal or an opportunity of a right of first offer. And so in essence, we've been very selective on not winning any bidding wars. And what we like to do is really use those ROFRs and ROFOs to identify where we can match fund and make an accretive acquisition. And the disposition program is going to be match funded because our dividend is on top of taxable income. And so we have to 1031 exchange those or we'll have to issue a special dividend. So we're right at taxable income. And so there is going to be a lot of opportunities for us to match fund into acquisitions and use that -- those proceeds to go and find acquisitions. You've seen us do like the grocery anchored. You've seen us do sites where we can add a grocery anchor. You've seen us do sites where we can entitle for multifamily. So I think our strike zone is much bigger than others, that need sort of the perfect trophy in the perfect market. We've seen where we can acquire things and use our platform to create value. Whether it's vacancy, whether it's redevelopment, we like the opportunity to use our platform to create value when we have the chance.

We have our rapid-fire questions to end the session. What will same-store NOI growth be for the shopping centers' sector overall next year in 2027?

3.5%.

And then will there be more or fewer of the same number of shopping center REITs a year from now?

Fewer privatizations.

One or more than one?

More than one.

More than one. All right. Thank you very much.

Thanks, guys.