LAMDA Development S.A. (LAMDA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I am Gelli, your Chorus Call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the LAMDA Development Conference Call and Live Webcast to present and discuss the 9-month 2021 financial results. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Ms. Konstantina Karatopouzi, Chief Operating Officer. Ms. Karatopouzi, you may now proceed.

Thank you very much. Good afternoon to everyone. Thank you very much for joining our 9-month 2021 results presentation. I have here with me, Mr. Harris Goritsas, our CFO; and Dimitris Haralabopoulos, Investor Relations and Financial Strategy Director. So I'll start my opening remarks with an update on the Ellinikon project, and then we'll talk a little bit about the month before starting the financial statement presentation. Since the acquisition of the shares at the end of June, we accelerated our efforts in relation to any preliminary works for the project. Specifically in relation to the demolition of certain buildings, Phase 1 has been completed since last year and accounted for 30% of the total value of the building -- the volume of the building. And in terms of the remaining to be demolished, this phase was initiated in October and is expected to be completed in April 2022. This later phase accounts for 50% of the total volume of the buildings to be demolished. With regards to the infrastructure works and compared to the update we provided you in the last results call in September, we've now completed all relevant studies. The infra tender launched in July 2021 is underway, and submission of the relevant offers is expected next week. I highlight this because this is a very, very important tender for us given that it's the first big construction-related work that will be done, value of EUR 250 million estimated. The scheduled tender award is in March 2022, at which point in time, we expect for the selected contractor to be mobilized and start works. Another important tender which is underway is that of the early contractor involvement for the Marina residential tower, also a very important contract for us, which is scheduled to be finalized by January 2022. Finally, with regard to the selection of the project management consultant for the building, we're at the final stage of the selection process. This is the third most important, let's say, contract for the management of the project, and this will complement the services of the PMC for the infrastructure work, which is already underway, providing services. Now with regard to the commercial progress on the reservation of the residential units for the Marina residential tower and the beach villas, we've been overwhelmed with a strong demand, particularly from Greeks, both residents and Greeks from diaspora. This high demand dynamics help us to achieve results above expectations in relation to the number of reservations that we booked to date compared to what we were expecting. Now specifically for the MRT, the Marina residential tower, deposits already submitted from customers correspond to 77% of the net sellable area. And this corresponds to a potential future revenue of EUR 348 million, of course, after the relevant sales contracts are completed. We've reserved all 41 floors of the -- the first 41 floors of the tower. And the remaining 23% of the NSA, the net sellable area, which relate to the top floors, including the penthouse, have been intentionally kept off the current booking process in order to maximize the potential revenue. We're in the process now of revising the design for these floors, mainly in order to maximize the benefit that we expect to receive from these floors. And we've updated designs, we're expecting then in the first quarter of the next year. Following this, we're very confident that we'll be able to capture this significant revenue upside potential that we have from this trophy asset. Now with regards to the beach villas, after the success of all the sales efforts done today, we have received deposits from 27 units. This is from all the units of the villas. And the most important update on the village is the change in our development strategy. Now we're pursuing the sale of the relevant land plots instead of selling the completed villa development as was the vision of the original plan. The estimated corresponding future proceeds from the landlord sale amount to EUR 188 million. Now the most important benefit for this revised development strategy relate to the mitigation of the construction and financing-related risks as well as bringing forward the estimated potential NAV creation from this project. This strategy also benefits our clients who will have more flexibility in the design of the villa. Now due to this strategy, of course, we're making the relevant amendments required in the relevant SPAs. And in terms of the timing, we anticipate for the first contracts to be signed in Q1 '22. At the time of the signing of the SPAs, we'll be receiving 50% of the relevant transaction consideration. Just to highlight, there's a strong demand also for the condos, which will start to be officially promoted after the holiday, the Christmas holiday. And finally, with regard to the casino license issue. The status is that we're waiting for the final decision of the Court of Audit. It's expected in the next few weeks. Potentially, because of the Christmas holiday, it will either be just before the Christmas holiday or immediately after. This is what our expectation is, and we're not really waiting any surprises. Now turning to our shopping centers. Q3 '21 has registered a very significant growth compared to 2020. And we also see recovery trends compare to the 2019 levels. In Q3, we highlight the significant growth in both customer consumption and footfall, which also resulted in strong EBITDA growth of 23% versus 2020. Now this compensate for -- to a large extent, to the negative impact that we had during the first 6 months of the year in terms of EBITDA. And in this context, we registered for a third consecutive time the revaluation gains in our shopping centers. So since the end of 2020, the aggregate revaluation gains amount to almost EUR 15 million, while the aggregate value of our shopping center stood as of the end of September just 3%, below the record high valuation in 2019. And just to highlight that the valuation of Golden Hall exceeded at the end of September, the same -- the value at the end of 2019. So these are both very clear indications of recovery of the value. And most importantly is that the independent values improved expectations of the time expected for the return to normal operating conditions that clearly support our belief as well that the valuation upside potential that we are expecting is still there as the pandemic gradually retreats. Now with regards to the recent trends, you will also see in the presentation that all relevant KPIs are much improved, and would like to specifically highlight the following: In October, we saw the accelerating trends versus last year of all our shopping centers. We highlight the strong growth in both customer consumption and footfall, resulting in customer sales exceeding the record high levels of 2019. However, in November, specifically, due to the rapid deterioration of the health care condition during the pandemic, the government imposed a new round of restrictive measures targeting non-vaccinated part of the population. In this context, the customers' consumption patterns have adversely impacted us, which, of course, in turn, have taken a role on our shopping centers KPIs, specifically for that month. So we will closely monitor the situation, but we believe that any further deterioration in the health care conditions would obviously adversely impact our shopping centers' performance in December. We continue, however, to gain comfort from the unchanged occupancy rates that we have. We still maintain at 99%. We have a very solid letting strategy, and that's reflected in the agreement signed with existing or new tenants with pre-COVID financial terms as well as from the continually high, above the 95%, rent collection rate. Now most importantly, we also know the continuation of the loyalty of our tenant who continue to invest in our shopping centers. They continue to show trust by improving their offering and the experience. And just as an indication, we have mentioned the big renovations done by ZARA and Public in their stores in Golden Hall as well as the new IKEA store -- IKEA store, sorry, which is planned to open in December. Now I'll pass on to the 9 months financial statements. Clearly, these are materially positively affected by the consolidation of our new subsidiary, Ellinikon S.A. as from June onwards. The 9-month EBITDA after valuation was EUR 329 million. The key driver of which is a EUR 306 million revaluation gain generated from Ellinikon investment asset, which is already included from the June accounts. There is no change there. As Ellinikon Project develops, we will update our presentation accordingly in order to facilitate the understanding of our results and, of course, all performance drivers. So I would like now to pass the floor to Mr. Goritsas who will run through the results presentation. And at the end, we will go to the questions section. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Konstantina, and good afternoon to all on the call from my side as well. As in our previous calls, I will provide color on the financial results of LAMDA development for the 9 months 2021 period, referring to the slides of the presentation that is posted on the company's website as well as on the live webcast page. So let's start with Slide #4 and the key highlights for the group. NAV for the first 9 months of 2021 increased 25%, reaching almost EUR 1.4 billion or EUR 7.81 per share. This is a EUR 280 million increase compared to end of 2020, attributed to the revaluation gains of Ellinikon investment assets, as Konstantina mentioned, already captured in our half 1 results, as well as on the continuous malls performance that we will analyze later. Important to note, we have not performed a new valuation for Ellinikon assets for our 9-month results, something that we plan to do for our full year results. In terms of P&L, for the first 9 months of 2021, we reported 10% growth on EBITDA before valuations and Ellinikon direct expenses, mainly attributed to the improved quarter 3 performance of our existing malls; the full consolidation of Marina Flisvos, which was acquired February 2020; while the newly acquired Marina of Agios Kosmas, which is part of the Ellinikon transaction back in June 2021, is also contributing with a small positive EBITDA. Total EBITDA for the group after valuations and Ellinikon direct expenses stood at EUR 329 million, and net gains after tax and minorities at EUR 210 million, compared to a net loss of EUR 19 million same period last year. Finally, as a key highlight, we want to stress the third consecutive quarter of positive valuation gains for our existing malls and the fact that Golden Hall is now registering a historic high valuation, higher than the 2019 full year figure. Indeed, as Konstantina mentioned, a very encouraging development during the pandemic period. Turning to Slide 5 on the presentation and our existing shopping malls results highlights. The key message is the strong quarter 3 retail EBITDA, which grew by 23% on the back of a 30% growth in quarter 2, leading to a 9-month retail EBITDA of only minus 2% versus same period last year. As a note, the retail EBITDA at 6-month results was minus 17%. COVID-19 pandemic still affects our 9 months performance with our malls remaining closed 30 days more in Athens and 6 days more in Thessaloniki versus same period last year, while 40% effective government-imposed rent reduction applied for the first 6 months in 2021 versus 4 months in 2020 same period. Finally, on this slide, commercial indicators are holding strong, with occupancy rate at approximately 99%, new important openings in our malls and rent renewals at pre-COVID period rent levels. On Slide 6, we capture the Ellinikon key recent developments. Konstantina commented on those, therefore, I will not stay on this slide more as I will comment details on the Ellinikon financials on the next slide. Overall, we are progressing according to our internal plans, and we stay optimistic on the future benefits this emblematic project is expected to yield not only for LAMDA, but for the Greek economy and society as well. So let's resume now at Ellinikon. I will comment Slides 8 and 9, where we capture the OpEx and CapEx spending, respectively. In the 9-month results, we report EUR 20 million operating expenses, driven by marketing, consulting, advisory and legal fees as well as general overheads. While on capital expenses, we reported additional EUR 2 million of design, professional and technical advisory fees that increased the asset base of Ellinikon project. While we also spent EUR 4 million for infrastructure works already captured as liability in our balance sheet. Therefore, on Slide 10, the Ellinikon assets are increased to EUR 1.720 billion, EUR 2 million higher than in our half 1 results. As I commented earlier, next independent valuation for Ellinikon investment property assets is set for end of year. Therefore, what we report in our 9 months results has no significant variance versus the 6-month results we reported back in September. Moving on to the section where we comment the performance for our shopping malls. On Slide 12, we see the development of revenues and EBITDA in our existing shopping malls for quarter 3. All our malls increased their revenues and EBITDA with double-digit figures at the back of increased traffic and shopper spending during the third quarter, as we'll demonstrate later in the presentation. Next slide, #13, captures the 9 months revenue and EBITDA performance, where, as already said, the minus 17% EBITDA of year-to-date June significantly improved to minus 2% in year-to-date September due to the strong quarter 3 results. Mediterranean Cosmos mall in Thessaloniki is already registering growth versus prior year, both on revenues and EBITDA side. On Slide 14, comparing quarter 3 with same quarter of 2019 now, we are lagging 6% on revenues and only 3% on EBITDA, with The Mall Athens being the weakest performer for reasons already explained in the past that have to do with the fact that this mall is heavily dependent on cinemas and F&B, both significantly impacted by the pandemic, as well as the dependency of proximity via public transportation, which is again heavily impacted by the pandemic. On the positive side, the other 2 malls, Golden Hall and Med. Cosmos, registered growth on EBITDA versus 2019. The next 3 slides, 15, 16 and 17, capture the details of revenues and EBITDA for our 3 malls, respectively, during the first 9 months of 2021. I will not go through the details on those slides. If someone reviews the tenant sales and footfall changes in 9 months 2021 versus same period 2020, it is obvious that the COVID-19 pandemic remains the main driver of this negative performance for the 2 out of the 3 malls. Having said that, all 3 malls are significantly improving their EBITDA compared to 6 months period due to the strong quarter 3. On Slide 18, we captured the COVID-19 impact for our shopping malls. Obviously, this disruption continues to deliver a negative impact to EBITDA and NAV of EUR 0.5 million and EUR 0.4 million, respectively, albeit at the much content levels compared to H1 results. As a reminder, in our half 1 results, those numbers were EUR 4.4 million and EUR 3.3 million, respectively. As we leave behind lockdowns and government-imposed rent reductions, we estimate this impact to be 100% mitigated. Finally, we continue to register revaluation gains on all shopping malls, capitalizing our high occupancy rates and our ability to renew existing or sign new contracts with tenants at pre-COVID rent levels. Slides 19 and 20 indicate the 2 key KPIs of tenant sales and footfall during the period from July to October where our shopping malls operated without restrictions. On Slide 19, the comparison with same period last year, where it is obvious that our tenants experienced double-digit growth on sales month by month. On Slide 20, the comparison is with the same period 2019, a record half year. With that comparison, the key message is that our tenants are closing the gap. October 2021 tenant sales were very strong, increased overall by 5% compared to 2019 with 35% of them surpassing their 2019 figures. Slide 21 presents the valuation of our shopping malls as derived from the independent various appraisals, 2 key messages here. First, during all 3 quarters in 2019, we have managed to register valuation upsides, delivering a very professional and diligent operational management of our malls. Second, we are only EUR 22 million below the historic high valuation of 2019. And now Golden Hall, as Konstantina said, has already surpassed by EUR 5 million, its record high number of 2019. The last section of our presentation today covers the overall group's 9-month 2021 results. Turning to Slide 23 and the total EBITDA performance for the group before valuations, we report an improvement from the negative 2% of retail business to a positive 10% at EUR 28.6 million. The key driver of this win is the Flisvos Marina EBITDA improvement, mainly due to the adjustment following the change in the consolidation method end of February 2020 and the positive impact of COVID-19 government rent release. Worth mentioning that the newly acquired Marina of Agios Kosmas contributed EUR 0.4 million to the overall EUR 11.5 million EBITDA delivery coming from our Marinas. Turning to Slide 24 now and the net results of the group. The EUR 28.6 million EBITDA before valuations of the previous slide is materially improved by the Ellinikon valuation gain, resulting to a net profit for the group of EUR 209.6 million in the 9 months of 2021, compared to a net loss of EUR 19.2 million same period 2020. Worth mentioning the increased expenses for the Ellinikon project as the preparatory works are progressing and payroll expenses increasing due to the step-up of our organization structure and the increased interest costs due to the corporate bond of EUR 320 million issued in July 2020. Following the inclusion of Ellinikon in our balance sheet, we have a technical noncash unwinding of its present value liabilities regarding, a, outstanding transaction consideration; and b, infrastructure publication. Both liabilities gradually and technically increase to meet their nominal values, and thus, based on IFRS, this unwinding hits financial expenses in the P&L and also explains portion -- a significant portion of the increased financing cost for the first 9 months of 2021 versus same period last year. On Slides 25 and 26, total investment portfolio value is increasing by EUR 1.7 billion from the addition of Ellinikon into our portfolio, and by EUR 17 million, excluding Ellinikon, driven mainly by the EUR 15 million valuation upside of our existing shopping malls. With the inclusion of Ellinikon, the shopping malls' contribution to group's overall portfolio of assets is balanced to almost 30% from almost 80% before the Ellinikon acquisition. On Slide 27, where we present the NAV bridge, the 25% increase, both on absolute and on NAV per share figures, is materially driven by the Ellinikon valuation gains as we have analyzed. The last 2 slides, 28 and 29, provide a summary view of our balance sheet and its key metrics for September 2021 compared to December 2020. As already depicted in our 6-month results, Ellinikon is significantly altering the balancing view in numerous lines based on IFRS treatment, while cost reduction is mainly due to the EUR 300 million payment for the first installment of acquisition price for Ellinikon and the reclassification of restricted cash, both short and long term, for securing relevant bank guarantees. Worth mentioning that 9 months cash balance of EUR 171 million is improved versus 6 months balance by EUR 17 million as the outcome of the strong quarter 3 for our existing business. With that, we have concluded the presentation, and we are now ready for the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Svyriadi, Natalia with Eurobank Equities.

I will start from a question I have on the malls -- on the existing malls. Could you let us know where the current yields stand and give us a broader picture among the European peers? You used to give us something like that, but because of the COVID, I think we have a discrepancy there. But in general, where do we stand now, and where do European peers stand there? And then I have another -- the other question's regarding Ellinikon. I would like a bit more color on the changes that happened on the villas and the MRT pre-sale amount versus what we were seeing in July. Obviously, in the villas, you have a difference. You're not going to -- you're just going to sell the land, so there is a difference there. We had some presale cash inflows amount of EUR 283 million expecting in 2021. I was really looking for a color on how this has changed on 2021 figures, mainly. And if you see any projects -- any changes in the project cost in the MRT project that you're actually undertaking because of the raw material cost increases. That's what I can think as of now.

Okay. Thank you for the question. I'm feeling there are 2 elements on the question. Let me answer the first question about the yields on existing malls, and then Konstantina can comment a little bit about the -- what we said we are going to deliver in 2021, if we had this correct, the question about the sale and what -- how this impacts the finance versus what we are saying today, correct?

Yes, yes.

Okay. Now on the yields for the malls, just to say that there are no -- and as those are reports from our independent valuator, there are no changes versus what those have been in the last quarters. So they remain constant. We consider cost on the high side, just to give you a flavor, for The Mall Athens, it's around 7%, 6.8% to be exact; Golden Hall at 7.5%; and Mediterranean Cosmos at 8.6%. So it's a rate between 6.8% to 8.6% yield. This is significantly higher than what rest of European countries are experiencing, with the European average being at 5.3%, and the neighboring countries, Mediterranean countries like Spain, at average of Europe, 5.3%; Portugal, the same; Italy at 5.5%. So it's a significant yield differential that Greece is experiencing versus neighboring countries and European average, which we are not happy, but it is what it is.

Yes. There is room there for being there.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

And also just to add on that answer that because we've been expecting the drop in the yields for a number of years, and just before the pandemic started, we had started to see this trend. So I would say that the effect of the pandemic is not -- it's actually that we stopped the trend -- the lowering trend actually stopped because of the pandemic. But it hasn't materially deteriorated and it's been stable the last 3 quarters. So that's the actual effect. If it hadn't been for the pandemic, theoretically, the yield should have dropped further.

And Natalia, Dimitris here. Just to clarify that the yields mentioned by Mr. Goritsas before relate to -- for the neighboring countries in Southern Europe, relate to the so-called all risk yield assessed by investors in transactions and when assessing such opportunities.

Okay. Clear.

Okay. Should we pass now to your question about the villas to explain a bit more what the change in the strategies? Our original plan was that we would be developing the villas from beginning to end as for the rest of the projects that we are doing. I mean, the ones where were not actually doing any kind of JV with third parties. So when we develop, we do the design from the beginning to the final design. We construct, we deliver. Sale or keep for our own, let's say, use, as we do with the shopping centers. In the case now of the villas, we realized because it's such a specific product, a very high-end product, and we changed the strategy for the reasons I mentioned earlier. So as far as we are concerned, we see benefits, but we also see benefits for our clients as well. So this was a result, one, of our efforts to reduce risk in general for the project and specifically in this one, and also to accommodate the needs that we saw from our clients through the whole -- the discussions we're taking place in order to sell the -- in the selling process. So on one hand, exactly because now we're just selling -- we're doing 2 things. We're selling the land plots. So it's a [ agro ] sale of land where we're getting the income, and we will be recording that in our books much earlier than we would be recording profit if we had kept it as a development project. Also, the far reduced financing requirements. And the other thing we'll be doing, it's an option for the clients. If they want for us to provide the service of the actual project management, the contraction management. It's not obligatory. It will be an extra fee for us. It's not something hugely material, but it's a service we will be providing. Now as far as the clients are concerned, of course, this is much more flexible for them. They do need to adhere to some minimum, let's say, design framework because they cannot be totally different one from the other, and they have to fit in the general design of the villa's scheme, but they definitely have more flexibility in terms of selecting their own architects, both mainly on the internal design. So we've seen already that this is much preferable for them as well. So all in all, it's a much better implementation plan for the villas. Now because we're following this route, clearly, the contracts that we had started to draft, let's say, the template contracts that we have and -- for negotiation with each of the clients, some of the closes need to be adjusted because the terms are fundamentally different to before. So going through this process, which is, I wouldn't say, a very lengthy process, but definitely the process needs to be carefully looked at both with internal lawyers and we're also taking feedback to see what is commercially also that it makes sense, we had to adjust. So that resulted in us changing our plan and saying that we expect the first sales to be booked in the first quarter of 2022. Okay. So that's the change also because you want the difference compared to what we had said we were expecting back in the Investor Day presentation.

Okay. So we're not speaking from the villas.

For this year in terms of actually generating the sales and the cash inflow. But there's no change in the actual amount which we have booked as presales because most of those -- even in July, most of them were already booked. I think we had 21 out of the 27. Now we've completed and we've got presale fees for all 27. So as far as the selling process, we are on target, but the actual booking of the income and the cash, we're expecting that to start in the first quarter of 2022. And it's the similar -- sorry, you didn't ask about the villas, but it's a similar thing for the MRT as well because of the changes that we're doing in the design.

But you're selling the MRT as the villas? Is that...

No, no, no. Sorry, sorry. Just -- you followed up. No, I didn't mean that. I meant because it's a similar case, because we're also changing the design there as part of addressing the needs of the client. So that is also affecting the contracts that we have to sign, right? Because some of this is part...

Okay. So we're expecting this in Q1? Sorry.

Yes, yes, for the MRT.

Okay. But this hasn't changed in how you're going to sell this. You're going to sell it...

No. This is the same. Yes, correct.

Okay. This is the same. And you have sold, you said, the 30,000 square meters, and expecting the EUR 348 million is the sale price. Is this correct?

The total amount, you mean?

Yes, the total amount of contracted proceeds for this 30,000 is around EUR 348 million.

Correct. Yes, yes. Correct.

You will have some development costs there.

Of course. Of course. Yes, yes. This is the selling price.

Yes, yes. Okay. Just wanted to make it clear.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Zouzoulas, Constantinos with Axia Ventures.

A few questions. Just to follow on Natalia's question on the villas, I understand that 50% is going to be booked in the first half of next year and the rest of the amount is going to be also booked in 2022 or sometime later?

No, the 50% relate to the amount that will be booked. We're saying that in Q1, we're going to start signing contracts with tenants. For every contract we sign, 50% of the respective consideration is going to be received. So we've just given you an estimate in terms of what part of that consideration that will be signed is going to be received on the spot. It's not 50% of the total of the 27 villas.

No, no. This is what I meant. This 50% that you're going to get from its signing, the remaining amount, is it going to be booked within 2022? Are you going to get the flows in 2022, or sometime later?

Konstantina, let me try to put more clarity on that. As Konstantina said, on each contract, there is the same, let's say, payment pattern, which is 50% with the signing of the contract, and then another 2 installments. At least this is the current thinking. It may change. 2 installments; 25% and 25%, with a progression of cleaning the land and passing the land for development. And the estimate is that this will not take much time. So the assumption currently is that all 100% of the consideration should be captured within, let's say, 6 months of time in the contract. So if the contract signs in Q1, all the contracts -- we don't know if this will happen in Q1 -- all the contracts, 27, most probably, your assumption of getting the money in 2022 is correct. So it depends on the start of the contract, correct?

Okay. No, this is clear. Another question is kind of related to this. You talked about the demolition works and all the tenders that are taking place. Is there any indicative road map of what will happen next year? When following the -- when the tender is going to be completed, and then what's going to be the next steps? Infrastructure works, some works on development maybe? What are the plans there?

The main construction work that will start will be those of the infrastructure, right? Because in terms of order, that's the first one. And that is expected to start at the mid to end of March. So as soon as the tender finishes, and we have an assigned leader, let's say, contractor, the mobilization will start. So that will be the key construction work taking place in 2022. The other tenders we mentioned earlier, they're both consulting type of tenders. And of course, as soon as they are completed, they will start as well in terms of providing service, but that's not construction. They're both the services of the PMC and the ECI, respectively. The PMC is for the whole project or the buildings and the ECI for the MRT. So those will continue as well.

Okay. Another question is related to The Mall Athens, could you remind me if this has been contributed to LAMDA malls, or when is this going to take place?

No, it hasn't been contributed yet. The plan is still for it to be contributed. Also, the plan is for the IPO to take place. But in terms of the timing, as we had said, and it still stands, we need to wait for -- to ensure that we have a good visibility in terms of the pandemic in order to ensure that the pricing is done correctly into the benefits of the company. So as soon as we'll have that, we'll be able to issue a revised time frame on when is the best time to implement it. Our target at the moment remains at the end of 2022, but it's subject to the pandemic evolution.

All right. This is clear. And last question is regard the international assets. Is there a development there? Or is it a change of strategy? Or something you can tell us about the assets in Serbia mainly, I guess?

The strategy has not changed. Our emphasis is in Greece, in our shopping center sector and in the Ellinikon project. We have been selling smaller plots in the last few years. And we're still interested in the big plots that we have. We're also targeting around making very, let's say, significant effort in selling that plot as well, either in total or partially. So there's no change there. It's under implementation, the strategy.

And Konstantina, if I may add, we're not fore sellers. So we try to maximize the potential value.

Yes, yes, yes. Of course.

Yes, I agree with this. I'm just saying, I mean, this is an asset partly variable and the economy there is progressing. And if there is any timetable. But fine.

The next question is a follow-up question from Svyriadi, Natalia with Eurobank Equities.

I was just thinking of what we said before, and I have a question regarding the condos promotion. You said that will start after Christmas. Do you have a view if they're going to be -- you're going to go around like the villas, just selling it? Or have you thought about it or developing and selling? Is there a change we should be expecting there also?

Yes, a good question. But no, there's no change in the strategy there. And there, the condos are not individual units either. It's not like the villas that they're all individual units. So no, we don't foresee any change in the strategy there.

Okay. But could you -- I don't remember if you have actually said that, how much you're aiming to get from a sale per square meter there. Obviously lower than the villas and the Marina residential tower. But have you given an indication on that?

No. And actually, we would prefer not to make such estimate at the moment, specifically since we're very closely to starting the promotion period. So it would be preferable we'll tell you a little bit later in the project.

Okay. Understood, understood. Just wondering.

[Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference over to Ms. Karatopouzi for any closing comments. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Thank you for participating in the call. It's always a pleasure to have your questions to give us an opportunity to explain our strategy and what is happening, especially with the Ellinikon project. Of course, Dimitris Haralabopoulos is always available, myself and Harris as well for any follow-up questions. And we'd like to wish you all a Merry Christmas. Thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for calling, and have a pleasant evening.