LeadDesk Oyj (LEADD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello and welcome to LeadDesk's earnings call for 2023. I'm very excited to have you all listening in and to be able to present our 2023 figures. On the call with me. I also have Kaisa Ronkko, our CFO, who will be presenting part of the presentation, more focusing then on the figures, and I'll be more focusing then on the operational side and our strategic process for 2023 as well as then looking forward to 2024. As with the previous earnings calls as well, we have a fireside chat after the earnings call where you can also then ask your questions and put them in the chat and we'll be coming back to them during the fireside session then. On the agenda for this call, we have firstly the key takeaways for last year, 2023, after which Kaisa will deep dive into the financials and how we proceeded with our financials in the later part of the year, especially, and of course during the whole year. After that, then I'll recap on where we are with developing our company, where we are heading to and what's our progress so far. Then moving on to the market outlook. And then, as said, we have fireside chat with Henri hosting it and myself and the CFO participating. So super excited to hear all your questions then at that part. Moving then to the key takeaways for last year. Last year we've now said that we are satisfied with the performance which we did during 2023. We were able to grow in all our markets even though the market was quite uneven. So even in an uneven market, we were able to grow in all the markets as well as then be able to present some key highlights and some very good process as well in certain markets and certain verticals. Also, we had significant Enterprise deals coming in, again after [Technical Difficulty] of our last year. The year before, we had 2 deals we published and then also other smaller deals at the end of the year in the Enterprise sector, which is, of course, very important for us going forward as well. We managed to also work on the M&A side, non-organic growth. And acquisition of Lansilinkki is a good turn for us, which we did in the summer. And then we were able to complete the full integration by the end -- well before by the end of the year. Also, our profitability developed positively. As we've said that we are focusing on profitability more now in this uneven markets and the macroeconomic situation. And we were able to do progress there, which I'm very happy about. Investments in AI. We've been able to follow-up our reports and the focus shift towards AI, which is increasing now in Q4 and going forward. And we've been able to do successful pilots as well as then take some features already into wider production. There's still some uncertainty in the market. As we all know, the macroenvironment is what it is. But even in this situation, we feel confident in both our growth and profitability. And all in all, I would say that for 2023, we can be satisfied with the progress made on our targets and on the financials. But of course, as a growth company, we did have some [Technical Difficulty] left after '23, now going forward to '24. These are the key takeaways for last year. I'll go more deeply into the topics, but I'll let our CFO, Kaisa Ronkko, then go through the financials and highlights from that side before I jump deeper into the operational and strategic developments. Kaisa, go ahead.

Thank you, Olli, and welcome to the earnings call on my behalf as well. I'm also very excited to be here today to share our financials from last year. Now, when you look at our reports, you will first notice that we have introduced 2 relevant changes to our reporting. First of all, we have introduced comparable currencies, which we believe that will give you a better view on our operative performance without the impact of currency fluctuations. Secondly, we have changed the calculation method for annual recurring revenue, but I will explain that in more detail on the next slide. Now, if we look at revenue, despite of the cautiousness in, especially our Enterprise customers, as Olli mentioned, we were happy to see growth in all our countries, which I believe speaks to our drive and resilience in this market situation. Overall, the growth in comparable currencies was 8.4% and the growth was strongest relatively in Spain and Germany, and in absolute figures in our home market in Finland and Norway. Then if we look at the ARR, we see that the growth was 9.4%, which is faster than our revenue growth and this is a positive indicator of our future revenue growth. Then, as mentioned, we have changed how we translate currencies into our ARR reporting. Currency fluctuations have increased during the recent years and this new method helps better reflect the real performance of our operations and it also allows easier forecasting of future recurring revenue. Now, with the previous method, we converted the agreements into euros when the agreements were made or when we made amendments to the agreements. And now with the new method, we convert the deals into euros on the reporting date. So on the currency of the reporting date or by using the comparable currency. And as you can see from the graph, this change of method does not have significant impact on the trend that we see on the annual recurring revenue. And then moving on to our profitability, which we were actually quite satisfied with. We increased our focus on improving profitability already in '22 and now we can clearly see the results in last year's profitability. What we have actually done is that we have focused on our operating efficiency and get really good control of our costs. We plan to continue this also in the future and make targeted -- very targeted new cost investments to places where believe that we get the fastest return on our investment. And naturally, this improvement in our profitability is also visible in the cash flow, which improved EUR 1.6 million from the previous year. The cash flow from operations was also impacted by a temporary increase in our short term payables. Then if we look at the outlook for this year, we estimate that the revenue growth will be 5% to 15% and EBITDA margin 10% to 15%. As in previous years, this does not take into account any significant acquisitions that we may see in the future. But I will now let Olli explain in more detail our strategy and market outlook for this year.

Thank you, Kaisa. Yes, as Kaisa said, I will now look at what we promised for 2023 and what we delivered and how this reflects to our strategic process towards our end goal. Strategic goals for 2023 were outlined at the beginning of the year. There were 4 things that we promised to deliver on. Firstly, focusing on organic growth, maintaining and improving profitability, tighter integration of AI and nonorganic growth. Looking at then the organic side. As said previously, I'm very happy that we were able to grow in all the markets. Nordics being our home market, of course, grew the most in euros, but then percentage wise, the leadership position was with Continental Europe. We've been also able to maintain and improve as well on our profitability, as Kaisa outlined. We've been able to integrate AI more tightly into our offering and execute on pilot projects, as well as then taking those further into production. Fourth promise was the non-organic growth, which we were able to execute on in 2023. And we can clearly see that the market is significantly different in late part of '23 compared to then '22, for example, when the private valuations were off the roof. Looking more deeply into our focus areas for growth. So we have markets going from the Mediterranean up to then the Nordics and beyond, so we've quite a wide market. But then looking more deeply into the single segments there, firstly the Nordic core, our whole market. Our growth is based on maintaining our strong position, especially in the SME segment, which is super important for us and where we want to really focus on and which we want to which we want to conquer more. So the SME market still in the Nordics is a very important market for us, and we hope to gain both market share and then also extend from our -- only the core offering to other verticals as well as that is where we have the opportunity. On the other hand, Nordics is also where our Enterprise customers are mostly, and Enterprise segment augmenting SME in the Nordics is both a very big opportunity for us as well as then it's a great expansion possibility also for the future. Nordics as the home, we really need to focus on providing good solutions here with great service augmented with AI and bringing all those great features into the market, which we can then utilize elsewhere. Apart from the Nordic core, the second footing is in Continental Europe, where we can leverage our very strong product that we've built in our home markets, and we can then leverage that in the Continental market to drive growth. So in the Continental Europe, we are looking at -- focusing on the very core SME segments where we are by far the strongest and execute on that. We want to be more product led here. We want to be more to the core. And we want to execute on a high-growth strategy here. Of course, that's also one of the reasons why the percentage-wise growth was on a good level in the Continental Europe. Efficiency wise, of course, all these investments, we have a very large range of countries that we operate in, and we are quite different from the other Finnish software companies in this regard. We have local offices in Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, France and Spain, which, of course, means that there's a lot of costs involved in this effort as well. And we really need to focus on driving performance and efficiency in operating across Europe. While Nordics are our home market, we have a very large operation across Europe, and we really need to strive for efficiency now and in the future. So the key takeaway here, Nordic core, good market position, driving growth there. And Continental Europe, then leveraging our strong product for future growth and really having a great addressable market. The other segments we have are SME and Enterprise. As said, we really have a good position in the SME market, very strong product, and this is where we can really, really show off from the competition and where we really want to be the strongest now and in the future as well. And here, we can really provide the SME customers great service with 15-minute onboardings, improved sales and customer service, and we can really make an impact to the efficiency as well. And we can take these advantages of a standardized product and large-scale cloud operations, and we can bring them to the Enterprise side, which then have higher requirements, more detailed requirements, localized and culture-sensitivity. And they need also the good integrability that we have learned to do in SME side. And we can all bring these SME benefits then to the Enterprise. And then as the Enterprise customers have other needs, for example, around AI and they have more investment capabilities, we have the opportunity to build great things also with the Enterprise segment and bring those benefits back to the SME side. So we see these 2 segments are supporting each other. SME, we get the fast-moving customers that are really adaptive. And then on the Enterprise side, we have customers, maybe more stable but who have more investment capabilities, for example, in AI. I've mentioned AI quite a few times already in the presentation, but the adoption of AI is critical for future competitiveness. The increase has been very visible, not only in our sector, but also in other sectors during last year. As the emergence of these generative AI, firstly, OpenAI and then the others who have followed, is really an opportunity to transform software provided for contact centers as well as other verticals. To really provide great contact center AI, you need to have vertical-specific solutions. You need to focus on this vertical. You have to have great software for contact centers to be able to provide AI. You need to have the data and the understanding of the processes. What you also need to do, which we are highly focusing on, is, speech-to-text. So to be able to really use a lot of these AI tools, you have to have the speech in a textual form and we are investing highly into that. We see that this can be really a benefit for us in the future. As a European player, we are focusing on this market and the needs of these cultures and languages. And we can really be transformational as we both have the scale and the expertise then to service the market. We see that the players who fail to integrate these capabilities will be at this disadvantage in the midterm and it's going to be transformational to the market. The milestones we've achieved is that, we've been in the AI field for years already, but we decided for further investments and invest heavily into AI in the first half of the year. We had the first pilots, we verified the first solutions with the product market fit and we've decided to invest more into AI adoption. One example of this is that 20% of all the core data in our cloud software is being transcribed at the moment. And now as that is happening, we can bring great new features based on those transcripts then to our customers. Our target is that we'll integrate all these functionalities across our product suite, and we see that these features will benefit our customers and increase the value of our solution to our customers. And we can really make a big improvement in their efficiencies. Contact centers, there's a lot of labor involved in contact centers and increasing the efficiency is crucial for our customers. Jumping then more to other topics. On our M&A side, as you well know, we have been on a AI -- sorry, M&A strategy for quite some time. In 2020, we acquired 3 companies, Nordcom, Capricode, and Loxysoft. And then, year after, GetJenny, our conversational AI. And last year, we were able to then execute here as well by acquiring Lansilinkki. And on the benefits that we've received from there is, firstly, improved offering and quality. Now, we are interfacing with all the large telecom operators directly, trading traffic. We've been able to improve our competitiveness also and offering us we are we the core now and we don't have to rely on partners for any services. And lastly, but by no means least, there's a lot of technical expertise that we got through the acquisition of Lansilinkki that was not readily available on the market. This deep telephony technology is not is not readily available by recruitments and it's really great that we have a fantastic team now, in our CPaaS platform team, to really take our platform forward. On then the market outlook for this year. There are a few tailwinds and headwinds. So tailwinds, meaning things that support our growth, and headwinds, that we have to overcome. On the Enterprise side, we see Enterprise investment debt in contact centers benefiting us. So for example, this Enterprise deals that we've been able to now close, and all the deals that we have in pipeline on that end, we've known mostly about them for quite some time. But the dynamic in the Enterprise and the large end customers has been that investments have been put forward, but now with the with the problematic that customers really want and require better digital service together with the development of AI, it means that also the Enterprise sector has to move on these investments. Also, need for operational efficiency in contact centers across the markets is helping us. So, of course, in a tight macroeconomic environment our customers and our prospects are looking for operational efficiency which we can bring with our great cloud product augmented with AI. And then thirdly, AI adoption in contact centers. To really run efficient AI, you need to have the data, you need to have it readily available, and you need to have the software to support that. We are one of the few true cloud players on the market. Our software is not custom built, it's a cloud solution for our customers, which means that our innovation cycle is much faster than our competitors'. On the headwind part, there are, of course, economic uncertainties which are in the market. Customers do seek to curb the costs. So of course, there's, for example, over subscriptions have pretty much vanished. So customers are very tight on who has access to our software and who doesn't. So that is, of course, something that affects the market and our position there. And then, of course, the impacts of the regulation, they are a bit twofold. But, typically, when there's increase in regulation, they are both benefits and then risks to us in the sense that some regulation, of course, requires changes to software or more software being used, but some regulation then hamper the work in contact centers, thereby then reducing the work that our customers want to do there and which they try to push elsewhere. But in general, the outlook for this year is quite positive, but there are, of course, naturally risks in the environment which we work hard to minimize. Great opportunities lie ahead of us as well coming to this year. Thank you. This was the part of the -- the official part of the earnings call. We'll be moving then to the fireside chat together with Henri and Kaisa. Thank you so far.

Welcome to the fireside chat of LeadDesk. My name is Henri Palomäki, and I'm from hxl.fi, which is an information service for private investors. I'm here to host that chat and asking some question from, Olli and Kaisa. In case you have any questions, write them, down in the chat, and I will go through with the management.

So thanks for the presentation, Olli and Kaisa. For me, it looks like, the performance of LeadDesk was quite solid and unsurprising. There's not a lot of changes. How do you think how satisfied you are as a CEO of the company for the general performance and, which were the main, objectives you achieved?

Thanks, Henri. Yes. So in general, I was satisfied with the year. There were a lot of things happening during the year, but we were able to maintain a solid performance throughout and overcome obstacles that came through. The happiest time, of course, with the AI developments we have, and that's something that we have our high focus in, of course, bringing efficiencies to our customers. And, in the first part of the year also, I was very happy with our SME process. And then at the late part of the year, Q4, especially, I was happy that our Enterprise segment has come out again well, and the Enterprise customers are moving. And that's something also I'm spending now quite a lot of time in, then helping our Enterprise customers to onboard and to get the best possible service that they can. And that's something that really is like a -- very like heartwarming, at least to me, that the Enterprise segment is okay and on the move. And that's -- and looking good also for this year, so that's great.

So let's talk first about the numbers and the revenue and the growth. So like last period you also suffered a bit for the exchange rates. So your growth was 3.9%, but with comparable currency basis, 7.7%. Are you happy with the development of the revenue?

Yes. So on the comparable currency side, which, of course, we operationally look at, only. So operationally, we run the company with the comparable also, before the change to public reporting. And for that end, I am satisfied with the with the results, and especially with the fact that we were able to grow in all the markets and, not just so that some were lacking. But -- so I see that, that is a great achievement. On the other hand, we did have quite a bit of hunger left for growth coming to this year still. But in an uneven market, of course, it's always a bit uncertain. There are a bit of uncertainties that come behind the corner. But, all in all, I was satisfied with the performance last year. And then going to this year, I see that, we had some hunger left from last year for more growth then.

Yes. What about profitability then? Kaisa, profitability remained quite stable in the second half. Your EBITDA margin was 13.7%, almost the same time last year. Was there any major changes, different that, like, affected to the profitability?

Nothing huge, as such. It's just continuous work towards operating efficiency and growing, while keeping good control of the costs, basically. What we have done actually now and we continue to do, like I mentioned previously in the presentation, that we are really making targeted cost investments. So trying to make those investments where we believe that we get the fastest return on this investment and where we have success.

Okay. And regarding gross margin there's a question in the chat. So your second half gross margin declined somewhat versus the first half. What is driving this? And how should Lansilinkki acquisition impact on the gross margin going forward?

Nothing major happening on that side during the latter part. For the full year, the gross margin was actually a little bit higher compared to previous years. But we estimate that Lansilinkki should improve the telco margin going forward.

Okay. And what about the guidance then? So for revenue, 5% to 15% growth with comparable currencies. Do you see any specific sectors or countries, markets, where the growth is driven?

So to reach our full potential we will have to perform well in all the sectors and in all the segments and markets. So it's, of course, clear that, we are targeting for absolute performance in all the markets and all the segments. Then again, of course, it's an uneven market still. There are fluctuations. Quarter-by-quarter we see customer sentiment changing. And, to that end, of course, it's harder to predict than in some more normal years how housing is developed. But I see that, growth in auto markets, also for this year, is very important, and then taking headway on the market and the market share is important. To my understanding, it's been quite hard years, the previous 2, for also competitors. And then to that end, I see that, we, with these numbers, actually might be gaining market share and, that's a positive. Of course, they're not, at least too. I see it as a -- like, I see our market share position developing positively, and that's, of course, great then for us considering following years.

Yes. And then there's a question from Jaakko. Where the both published slots Enterprise deals booked in the end of, 2023 ARR?

Yes.

Yes. Okay. And still about profitability, first, Mikael asks, Could you tell us more about your profitability development in your different main markets?

Profitability development, we haven't really shared that as such.

Yes. And looking at the profitability, to the different markets, so we -- basically, the main -- bulk of the cost is, of course, in Finland where we have most of the R&D and other items, and, of course, like…

Support functions.

Support functions and all that. So then these countries where we have -- basically, they are resellers, and they are, of course, our own organizations, but you can think of them as free servers to disregard. And if you want to dig deeper into this topic, you can look at the concept trees that are then attributed to each country. And in the concept trees you can see the, like, maybe the profitability that we are looking for here.

Okay. Thank you. Then there's another question. What are your current thoughts on expanding in the Enterprise segment in the Continental Europe?

So we're focusing our Enterprise efforts into the Nordics, where we have the clearest right to win, and where our SME market position allows us then to do those investments more profitably. So being in Continental Europe, the market is huge, even in the SME sector. So, like, think of the Greater Berlin area that has more people than most of the Nordic countries. And that's the reason why we have laser focus. So -- and this also allows us for more efficiency in our operations. So we can target the marketing and the sales efforts, laser sharp, instead of going for a white beam. And we see this as a key thing for our growth in Continental Europe that we really focus. In the Nordics, which are -- of course, the markets are, smaller, as the countries are smaller, we have more opportunity then to also extend to the Enterprise segment as our SME segment is already strong. And our market share there allows us also to target the Enterprise.

Okay. And now in the second half, the Enterprise segment, was doing better than SME, and I remember it turned around from the first half of the year. Was there any specific reason for SME side to be weaker, or was it just seasonal changes?

I think the sentiment has changed a little. On the SME side, where you have entrepreneurs, when -- like, as a Finn, when you have snow blowing in your face, do you go to cover or do you just move forward with your head up? And I think this is a bit different. So, when SMEs are hit with, troubles they have to overcome, they pick a different, like, tactic. And they really, like, they push forward with the investments and efficiency gains. And this, whereas then Enterprise becomes more hesitant. And, and now, I think that it's a little bit turned around as the Enterprise side has now clearly come to the market, and there's much more activity there. SME is, by no means, in the same state that Enterprise was at the beginning of the year, but they have been more cautious now. They are, they are looking at the investments more and, maybe making -- not making those operational changes now. But there are positive signs again, like in the beginning of the year here as well. No big shift yet. But there's, like, this to make bit of uneven market I've been talking about now a few times. So it's an uneven market. I think that's the best way to put it.

Okay. And now there's a lot of questions about AI, and also that's one of your focus areas. Could you tell us about the monetization of your current AI tools? So is it, like, can you create a new service from that? Or is it more like staying alive competition against the competitors?

Yes. So AI, there will be different monetization methods concerning. But -- so if I just run through the 2 basic ones. So firstly, we believe that certain level of AI must be part of the basic package. And that's the, like, the entry level that you have to have in your software. And that we are now really wanting to also push to market that, hey, these things you must require from your vendor. And that is something that will distinguish us from the -- especially, from the small competition who don't have the investment capabilities. And then secondly, there are other tools that are then augmenting those basic tools that bring additional value, which are then, based on the, customer process. So which kind of problematics the customer is working on, contact centers. Some work with email, some work with phone, some with web chat, some with social messaging, so on. And it differs then, like, what different contact centers want to use. And, of course, these functionalities are more specialized. They bring more targeted value to the customer. And, naturally, then the monetization is different in these cases. They are not part of the basic package. So twofold. Firstly, stronger market position, allowing us then to, of course, take up larger market share and increase the, per seat based pricing. And then on the other hand, more targeted software solutions for specific needs.

Okay. And continuing from there. If you compare your AI feature development to the large competitors, how do you position against them? How large is your AI development team, and would you like to recruit more AI talent? Are you using external service providers in AI development? So there was 3 questions.

So I'll try to answer those. So looking at -- we actually did -- in the summer, we did a external short market study on this. And it seems that even -- at least in Europe, even the largest providers, the U.S. providers, haven't been really able to deliver anything except promises. It might, of course, differ in the U.S., but that's the case in Europe, according to this small study. And here, we believe that we can be in a prime position to actually transform, especially the European market, where we have different languages, we have different cultures, we have different needs. Just as an example, we have a multinational customer, using us in many, many European countries, the same AI. And the same knowledge basis and the same training of the AI doesn't work in 2 countries, because their business, while being the same, has different partners, has different registration. There's so many things. But then they have to have an AI trained for each market. And that's the kind of thing that we are specialized in. So with our software, you don't have to train as much. And even though you have to have many of these, training modules, that's, like, all handled. And then the language part, bringing transcriptions to the languages is a large a large deal. And having that done, then also cost efficiently, it's a big, big deal. Most likely I skipped some questions.

Yes. Yes. That was the first class, Chris. Thank you. And then, about the development team.

Yes. So we have -- in the development team directly attributed, I think we have, like, in the core AI team, we have 3 people. But together with, like, the development of these new tools, what has changed is that it's not the core AI team who are doing transliteration engines, training the models, and so on. But it's all about, like, having all the data there, having good ways to actually use the AI, so it's intuitive and it's user friendly, and you can actually get stuff done. That's the big part of it. And there, of course, we can utilize our full R&D capabilities. So you have to -- and this, I think applies to all AI development. That the core team working on the models is, like, just the tip of the iceberg. And really the value lies in the other parts as well. And that's as important, and it is as difficult.

Okay. Then I think the last one about AI. With AI feature partially reducing the needed seats by your customers, are you expecting to go through a larger pricing model transformation in the near future?

I don't foresee that in the near future. The thing is that, typically, what the -- where you get the biggest benefit of AI is in menial tasks, but that's typically where you have the lowest value. And if these contact center agents can be transferred to more value making jobs and, like, more value making business processes, it doesn't decrease the amount of agents, but it actually increases the whole share that we have of the wallet.

Okay. Okay. Then, what about them -- Jaakko asks, how is your current sales pipeline looking versus the situation a year ago?

The -- on the -- especially on the Enterprise side, it's looking much better now. So Enterprise, as I said, it's come alive. So, on that side, it looks better. SME, the sales cycles are much faster and so on. So, pipeline at one point doesn't predict as long a period, but it's on a okay level. But...

Okay. Then, guys, I have one question for you about the numbers. Frans-Mikael asks, What is the explanation behind the clear drop in your depreciation level in Q4 versus Q3?

Q4 versus -- there was in one of our subsidiaries, which we actually merged at the end of last year. We had done too many depreciations that we actually had to reverse in the last quarter.

Okay. And then another one. How did your net revenue retention develop this year?

Well, on that end, I don't have the figures here. But, I don't think there's anything to, like, there wouldn't be anything to report on either. So it's on the same kind of level that one would expect from previous years.

Okay. Let's talk about M&A then. So last year, you published the acquisition of Lansilinkki, and now in this report you said that you completed the integration. What's next? What's -- how does the market look like at the moment in the M&A side?

So on the M&A side, we are looking at 2 vectors there. So firstly, of course, like, market access and, we are looking at competition and near, like, verticals to that end. And there, it's about, like, faster growth. We are in a software market where our software is mission critical to our customers, which means that customers are typically quite reluctant to change the software, which, of course, then, M&A helps here that we can get a better access to the market. And then, on the other hand, we are looking at certain, like, augmenting software. So providing our customers with more of the software suite that they are using, and also then possible benefits from, for example, new features or new sub products in our suite.

Okay. Then about partnerships, that was also one of your main strategies before. And last year you also published the Salesforce app, for example. Is there any news or any major changes in the second half, or -- looking at this year?

Yes. So, we do have now, integrations to all the major CRMs. So, Salesforce, Dynamics, HubSpot, Pipedrive, and then, also, Zendesk on the ticketing side, for example. And, this is, something that we do provide for customers and -- which we are partly focusing on. We see, though, that the -- like, the pipeline for the full could solution is typically, like, best together. So that we have, the CTI and the partner model for some users, and then the other users use our full stack solution with another integration. So it's like -- it it's always, like, a -- we typically link this with -- together with the other parts of the solution as well, which of course then helps. And now that we are natively in these ecosystems, we are in a much position -- better position to offer inside the ecosystems.

Okay. And then the general outlook for 2024. So what are your main strategic themes and objectives for this year?

Yes. So we want to maintain our growth, and, and, also, we have hunger there. And that's, of course, the main topic for a growth company. Looking at, of course, the markets and the general economic situation, we have more focus on profitability, and we are focusing on that also this year. AI, rolling out features to more and more customers, and then, of course, upsells related to that. And, that dynamic is very important to us. And fourthly, then, as also last year, executing on M&A, we see that the market is consolidating fast. There's happenings now, again, on the market, which were not there may be one year ago, 2 years ago, when we also had a brief pause in acquisitions. But we see that the market, in general, is consolidating, and we need to act there. And the private valuations are now at the level where we can then execute on that as well.

Okay. Good. Thank you. I think my basket of questions is done now and over and empty, and there's no more questions in the chat either. So, thanks for the great discussion. The recording of this event will be, published in the LeadDesk's investor page. Do you have anything to add in the end?

Well, just a big thanks for, of course, our employees and customers, but also our investors and owners. Big thanks for having your trust in us, last year and going forward. It's a great pleasure to get to see 2024 results then in one year, hopefully with Henka then as well here. And thanks, Henka, also, for coming, and hope your pack is better.

Yes. Yes. Thanks for the invitation, and I'm happy to be here always. And, yes, have a wonderful day.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.