Mastercard Incorporated (MA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

We're going to get started here. Please join me in welcoming Michael Miebach, CEO of Mastercard. Michael has been with Mastercard for over 15 years. He took the helm of CEO in 2021. He's played a key role in transforming Mastercard into what it is today. Thank you, Michael, for spending some time with us. Really appreciate it.

Sanjay, thank you for having me. I was looking forward to this. We'll talk about settlements and things like that.

Yes. So let's just kick it off right there. Maybe you could give us a sense of the settlement, and how Mastercard sees it?

Right. So the headline, we're happy that we've reached a settlement in the rules class with the U.S. merchants after intense engagement after the first settlement was not approved by the judge. So I think the settlement represents a good balance between acknowledging what the judge was looking for and the points that were made and then balancing the interest between the different parties. So this is a thought-through balanced option. It brings some certainty on interchange levels to the merchants, some more choice on what cards to accept and whatnot. But most importantly, it preserves the honor all cards rule, which is at the core of the user experience that in the end, I would argue most merchants anyway are looking for. So right now, confident, but it's still true. It needs another -- it needs an approval from a judge, and that hasn't happened yet. So we'll have to wait and see where that lands. But so far, so good.

Great. And as we think about like your competitive positioning given the changes to the honor all cards, do you think it still holds?

I'm sorry, just...

Just the competitive positioning of the cards because they will have more -- merchants will have more options to...

It holds for a number of reasons. First of all, the way that the agreement was reached is to say, on or all cards on the level of issuer basis, that will not be a choice. But you can say you're going to take premium cards or not. But then you think about, if you're a merchant, what are you trying to do? You're trying to sell. And when you think about the proportional level of sales that are related to premium cards, we've seen this in Europe, this really did not play out because the merchant wants that customer in their shop and they have a predictable experience. So you don't go on and off or left and right. So I think the balance struck about standard cards, premium cards and commercial cards is just very sensible so that the overall user experience will hold. I think overall, that is -- that makes a lot of sense. The overall acceptance level is there that beats any other alternative payments. The protections are there, the cybersecurity, all these other things that are built into the cards ecosystem, in particular 0 liability. When you take the category of cards overall versus other alternatives, that anyway holds.

Got it. Perfect. Maybe we could shift gears, talk about the macro. Obviously, it's a very fluid situation in the macro environment. There are so many things coming at the economy, it seems. Curious sort of what you guys are seeing since earnings, if you want to comment on that and how you see things unfolding?

We are probably the most global card network there is, certainly since we have the license in China. So it's a pretty unique perspective and the perspective on consumer spending is particularly unique. As of late, there wasn't so much government data to come by. And our data, therefore, is telling interesting stories. It holds -- I take you back to our earnings call where we said for the whole month of October, we saw solid spending. We saw a solid spending on consumer and business spending. And then when you break it down and say, we just talked about different kinds of card categories. So we see solid spending across affluent and mass as well. So that's overall positive. And you kind of wonder because you have this backdrop and say, yes, it's fluidity, there's macroeconomic uncertainty. There's where are the trade policy shifts taking everybody. But you saw savvy retailers and importers that adjust to uneven tariffs, and they pick the right ones that work for them. There's been much more sustainability in how supply chains have been managed since COVID. Businesses learned that. So they're adjusting. The consumers are adjusting because they're using all the abilities that the digital economy gives them to find a better deal and get a better offer. So that helps. But what helps even more is you've got a pretty solid labor market that's in balance. So job creation has slowed a bit in the U.S. At the same time, unemployment remains low. So the market is imbalanced. And as long as people get paychecks, they will spend. The other thing that we're seeing pretty consistently is at least in the large economic blocks is that wage increases still outpace inflation levels. So put all of this together, pretty solid spending. And from that perspective, if I take it global, the same picture exists everywhere else. We are global. We diversified and resilient. So I don't worry that much about the economic picture right now. We keep monitoring. Maybe tonight, there's a vote on the shutdown. That would be a good thing. It's another uncertainty that is out there at the moment. So overall, I think pretty steady.

Okay. So even through October, we've sort of seen the similar trends that you've seen.

Well, I gave you the last data in the call, and there is nothing new.

Okay. Got it. Perfect. So AI has definitely been a hot topic of late. I've got 2 questions. First, you've been using AI for a long time, but can you talk about how you're using AI internally and externally?

Right. So yes, of course, we need to talk about AI. I just came from a conference in California, and that was the only thing that we talked about, like there was nothing else to talk about. For us, as a company, we have been using artificial intelligence for about a decade, not Gen AI initially, machine learning. When you think about the 160 billion transaction that runs through our network, how do we ensure that the transaction that should go through, go through and the ones that should not go through, don't go through. It is AI-based. It is discriminary AI. It's model-based machine learning, and we do that very, very well. When you take a step back from that is what has changed now since over the last 3 years. What has changed in Mastercard when it comes to the use of AI. We started to use generative AI, and we apply it, of course, like everybody else, and I'm not going to spend too much time on that to just make our own company more efficient, make it stronger. So to give you an example that is somewhere nice between internal efficiency, but also driving a better customer experience is we run a very large consulting business. And here, we use AI to do a lot of the analytics work for our customers, which is payments consulting, that is a lot of database that's all model bot-driven that we have trained on our data and our customers' data to make that engagement a lot more effective. But where my personal excitement is, is really on product build and what else can be put out there, leveraging latest artificial intelligence and our own data. And I think this is where we really stand out because we have more data than literally anybody else out there. And leveraging that data to bring a better proposition to our customers, I think this is where the differentiator is going to be. And we do it in a number of ways. If you think about what we do as a company, we try to keep the payment ecosystem safer. So on the safety side, we're having a long-standing product called Decision Intelligence, which is about card authorization, and retuning it with external data points to make the card -- the fraud detection a lot better. The increase that we've seen from taking external data points, in microseconds, we're analyzing 1 trillion data points in real time to make our transaction approval a better one. And we're seeing a 200% increase. So that's -- if you -- on the other side of that as a bank, the impact on that on your P&L is quite significant. So this is a real tangible result of what AI can do. I'll give you a couple of other examples. Take making payments smarter. So they got to be safe, but the question is when do you run a payment? If there's no balance, then that's hard. If you try to make a payment and there's no balance. We're trying to get -- we're taking data points in from our customers and from external data to see at what point in time is there likely to be a balance on the account and here's what you do. It's a payment optimization platform product, driving massive efficiency for us, for our customers and turnover for us. So those are some examples where we're using the data that we have plus our AI scientists, plus the experience over the last 10 years to really drive better product. Today, it's about 1/3 of our services are AI-powered, and that number has increased over the last 3 years significantly.

Perfect. So...

Yes, differentiator...

No AI conversation is complete without talking about Agentic Commerce. All right. So maybe...

Right. There is more excitement than I think warranted when you look at where it is at this point. But okay.

But clearly, there's a lot of excitement, as you said. And so I'm just curious sort of how you see it developing, what your perspectives are and how Mastercard capitalizes on the...

So Agentic Commerce, for everybody who might have just joined the conference, it's basically -- there is a theory that search behavior might change, and you might go from your favorite search engine to actually using an AI-powered bot to do some of your shopping, well, not really the shopping. You ask the bot a certain question about what you want to do in life, let's say, you want to do a camping trip. And you know you have a tent, but you don't know all the other things, so you're going to ask the bot. And the bot is going to lay out based on your preferences that you've had from previous chats, here's what you most likely would want. The quality of that suggestion is possibly better than what you get out of a straight search engine. So the idea is that consumers might go that way. There's also not an unreasonable expectation to think maybe there is more turnover as a result of that because it's better quality suggestions and my propensity to buy might actually be higher. So there could be an upside potential there. Now from a consumer perspective, it's not a dramatic change. You're still searching for something. You're just using a different tool that potentially serves you better. For the payment ecosystem, this is a pretty fundamental change because you're having a different party in the mix and the party is an agent. And the agent is going to authorize a payment on your behalf, well, that could be creepy from a consumer perspective. If you don't feel that this is safe and who's -- what happens if something goes wrong. So the industry looked at this, the industry at large, including us and saying, what do you do about this? While the notion is very good. So the questions that need to be solved are you got to legitimize and accredit the agent. You have to figure out how you can authenticate the consumer through an agent and have the agent tell the bank, people that don't know each other and then somebody walks out with whatever they bought and how do you create that trust. Blockchain was a perfect kind of technology. So it made sense in fundamental terms. We invested for many years, but there was really no momentum. We all remember the Libra days. This was the first time when stablecoins became a discussion and really the world wasn't quite ready. This year, with the passing of the GENIUS Act here in the United States, the world is now more ready than it was ever before. So we see private capital unleashed. We see a lot of parties that want to be in the space. And I feel very good about the fact that we have been from an expertise perspective, from a technology perspective, from a kind of crypto-related services perspective in the business for a long time. Before stablecoins, crypto was the thing. The problem with crypto is the store of value function was the issue. Now with the peg, that is actually solved. So we use our -- we have quite a business in the on-ramp and off-ramp space. That is into crypto assets on the on-ramp with Binance, Bybit, you name it. And on the off-ramp, we have just announced, I think, last earnings consensus, MetaMask, Finance again in Brazil and so forth. So thriving business, great growth rates, all that. The stablecoin piece early days. So what we've done in the stablecoin base now that we have regulatory clarity is we said, okay, there will be more people that want to be paid in stablecoins. So we've enabled the network to do that. So if somebody -- if there's an acquirer, if there's a merchant that wants to be -- wants to settle with us in stablecoins, they can do that. So it just has to mark -- I have the regulatory check mark, I look very good. The Mastercard moved to our disbursement product. If you have a B2C disbursement or a consumer disbursements to some other part of the world, maybe there's a high inflation country at the other end of it. Somebody wants to be paid in the U.S. dollar stablecoin, great. So that is also now a Mastercard move, on-ramp, off-ramp disbursements, settlement. It's all there, 10 years of fiddling around and now we have regulatory clarity, and it looks a lot more real. The simplest term to describe is another currency on our network, and it's another choice and it's a credible choice. So we see that. The value of cards still stands though. Stablecoins is not the answer for everything because you have issues of identity to solve, of safety security solve, most importantly, of interoperability. Think about a world where a lot of banks choose their own stablecoins. Countries will have a range of stablecoins that might be different from another company because they obviously denominate them in their own currency and so forth. How does the world interact interoperability standards, safety, security solutions? That's kind of what we do for a living today, and we will strive to do that in that world.

Great. At your Investor Day, almost 1 year ago today, you outlined 3 strategic priority areas for the company. Maybe we could take a few minutes and update on -- to get an update on each. Let's start with consumer payments. Over the past 12 months, what would you highlight there?

Right. Yes, I can't believe it's been a year. And a lot has happened in this year when we talk -- when we just think about what we said earlier on the macro front. So the good thing is these 3 strategic priorities focus on consumer payments, commercial and new payment flows, which include stable, as well as services. So they are anchored in fundamental broad market trends and not so much in macro volatility. So they are true today as much as they were true a year ago. Starting with consumer, on the consumer side, we laid out the balance between us driving, getting into the secular opportunity. There's been a lot of discussion how much of that is still around. And we keep talking about the transaction opportunity there. We talk about the secular opportunity in markets that exist today. We go after that with the same tools that we have done for the last 10 years. They just the experience gets a bit better, the technology gets a little bit better, even better and there's differentiated data for us to allow us to do that. I just came back from 2 days in Mexico. They have, in Mexico, a big focus on digitization. 23% of the personal consumption expenditure only in Mexico is penetrated by digital payments, only 23%. 77% in the 12th largest economy in the world is not penetrated by digital solutions. And President Sheinbaum and her government are pushing hard to drive that opportunity as an opportunity for growth for Mexico. Is Mexico going to be an economy that will benefit in this current economic -- macroeconomic picture? Absolutely, nearshoring. There's all sorts of things that are going on in Mexico. We saw a big data center investment just being announced yesterday. So one example, secular opportunity is alive and well, and we're very busy to go after it. Share gain, going after share is the other thing I laid out at the Investor Day that on the basis of 2023 data, all market share was up. We didn't have the new numbers yet. But then I also -- we also shared with you that we fed hundreds of transactions in the year 2024. So we keep winning share. I talked about a few of those in the earnings calls. The last couple of ones, American Airlines, if you think about that, I just mentioned new bank coming in the U.S. that is coming with us. Differentiated solutions, leaning in with our customers on the consumer side where services play a very big role. You recall the virtuous cycle. We differentiate through services and payments. That gives us more payment volume, which gives us more data that allows us to drive differentiated services. And so it keeps going. And that's been a big part of a very good story on the consumer side, not to forget China and not to forget the account-to-account growth opportunity in secular as well. So that's on the consumer side. Moving forward, very much as we laid it out at the investor community meeting.

Cool. Let's move on to the second pillar, commercial and new payment flows. Maybe you could give us an update on the strategy and progress there. And then just feels like the commercial opportunity has lagged. I mean do you feel like that's the case? And what...

Sorry, it has what?

It's been slower than expected just because if you look at some of the -- maybe it's just the public company market, but there's been some variability in the AP automation area. Could you just talk about what it really takes to unlock the commercial payments opportunity?

So a huge opportunity. I think we laid out about $63 trillion across commercial POS and invoiced payments. The way we -- I think it's important to break it down into pockets because it's not the same true answer across the board. So on commercial and new POS, I think there is significant momentum there. So we laid out that just in the last call, we have already have 10% more cards in the market on the SME side. SME is an opportunity for every government out there. We don't really need to build anything new. So it's not a question of technological readiness. It's actually a question of go-to-market. And here, we've made a lot of progress. So traditional distribution channel was through banks that are focusing on small business. You see a lot more central banks and governments helping those banks with lending criteria. Everybody sees the opportunity, but that takes government and broader ecosystem to come to terms. So that is growing at its pace, but it's growing much more broadly now because you see a lot more banks that are showing up on the scene and say we can't ignore small business. And it's also -- every conversation I have on this topic is you find a consumer bank that says, well, it turns out my most affluent consumer customers actually are the ones that are running these midsized businesses, so I better go after it. So it kind of makes a lot of sense. I feel it's going to go at its pace. Where is the change in pace is really when we bring alternative distributors in? And there is -- we've made a lot of progress. I gave a bunch of names on the last call, Zaggle from India, Biz2Credit. So there's good partners. Biz2Credit is actually here. We made a lot of progress there, and that is really what is driving growth at this point. So small business, I have no concerns. I think everybody is aligned that this needs to happen. This is the backbone of most economies out there. On the invoice payment side, it's a little more complex because the situation you're in, you're looking at processes of large companies, and they're deeply ingrained. And these companies are oftentimes organized along the lines of what a particular ERP system requires them to do as a company. So from an organizational structure perspective, how the software all works, the various steps. So if we come in and say, all right, we would like you to do invoice payment in a different way, so it goes faster, that is not just going to be very productive. So we have to find a way that is a horizontal go-to-market is what are the common points that unite these public companies and large businesses that drive these payment files, and it is the ERP systems. It's also core banking systems and so forth. So we've made good progress. When we had this conversation about a year ago, it was 4 of these ERP systems, and now we're up to 10, 12, somewhere thereabouts. And the next step is to go and say, once you're in that system, you got to drive volume. And that is a very known to market. You put incentives, you can drive the right kind of structure to get that. So we're at that point now. And what we see is we see people at the other side who basically like the fact that it's going to help them automate and make processes redundant with the rise of AI, the focus on efficiency and what bad process you can take out is significant. And if you come and say, well, in your payment process, why you do all these reconciliations, all of this can be automated if you put this right into your system. So the arguments today are much more well received than they have been even a year ago. So I feel it is the right time. I said that I think in every earnings call and every earnings call, it feels a bit better because we see the momentum coming through. It's happening as we speak. But yes, am I impatient about it? Yes, probably a bit faster is good. But we have full belief that this is the way to go because everybody shares the same point and sees the same opportunity.

Perfect. Let's talk about the third strategic pillar, which is value-added services and solutions. Very strong growth there. Maybe you could talk about what's fueling growth, how sustainable it is, and what the opportunities are on a go-forward basis?

Well, take the last 2 quarters, pretty sustainable. So it's kind of growing at -- actually at a higher level than what we laid out at the investment community meeting. So we're happy with the growth. And when you break it down, why is it consistently producing that kind of growth is if you think about the portfolio of services that we have, so it hasn't happened by chance. It's curated. We initially started off out of the safety and security space, add a payment transaction that's already happening. And then it was a logical evolution for us to say, all right, how do we help before the transaction? How do we help after the transaction? How do we help the business overall that is our customers to run their business better, then you go even further away from the transaction. That was the thinking. So today, you have a set of solutions that cut across payments-related services. So we have the network link part, which is 60%. And then you go into the payment adjacent services before and after the transaction, you have market insights. Do market insights in a murky world matter more than ever before? So we're -- through the Mastercard's Economic Institute, we take our data and we break it down into insights for our customers so they can drive their business better, very -- it's a very high demand kind of service for us. You go into consulting. What we do today, we talk -- 2 of our topics that we talked about, we do Agentic Commerce consulting and we do crypto consulting. So we hire people that know this and who have been doing this for us on the product side and they engage our customers because everybody has this question, what do I do in that kind of space and so on. So it's a carefully curated set of services that reinforce each other plus the payment proposition. From that perspective, I do think that is differentiated. First of all, it's not a narrow set of services on a particular part of the payments ecosystem. It's really built around the key questions that our customers have. This was initially focused on largely one buying center, which was the people that we face off on the payment side. But in the companies that we speak to, we today talk to the Chief Marketing Officer, to the Chief Security -- the CISO, Information Security Officer, to the Chief Risk Officer. So it's a whole set of different wallets and buying centers that we're approaching with this broad portfolio. And from that perspective, you then think that is -- as we drive that around the world, there's a lot of potential for deepening into existing customers, into these buying centers, new customer types altogether. And hence, with that in mind, we laid out the growth rates that we laid out over the 3 years that we gave at the investor community meeting. So I think it's a really differentiated business when we shared a 22% growth for the last quarter, it was like you just see it, that the demand is there. And with all the tech change and everything that's going on around us, it feels like every day, we can't deliver fast enough on our services.

Yes. Clearly, it seems to be performing above plan at this point.

Yes.

Yes. All right. So you've announced several new and innovative solutions in recent months. Maybe we could talk about a few of them. Let's start with Mastercard Commerce Media. Maybe you could talk about the offering and how you plan to go to market.

Right. So Mastercard Commerce Media. Earlier, we talked about artificial intelligence, what sets us apart is our data. And when you take the data, we have -- it's a lot of transaction data. But we also have different categories of data. We have data permissioned proprietary data that sits in our offers platform and the loyalty programs that we manage for our customers. So we said this data, it should allow to make for a better commerce experience. So we all experienced this in our life today. We get endless e-mails that are just irrelevant and they clog our inbox and they offer us something and then most likely you will delete. Imagine this would be at the right time and at the right channel, something is actually relevant to you, and it's linked to your preferences that you have permission somewhere and say, I'm going to be able to -- I'm happy to share this data. Then you see advertisers that are needing to prove that every dollar that they spend into advertising actually drives ROI. I have the same question to our CMO all the time, Raja, like what are you spending the money on? And that is a question that probably in most companies is being asked. And we try to square all of this off and said, how about we use our spend data and the proprietary data sets that we have to make -- allow an advertiser to make a more targeted offer and then link it back to the -- through the transaction, the payment transaction to prove that it was actually turned into a purchase. Good proposition. It took a bit of time to build it, and we went live. We're now live. We are live with WPP. It's a big advertiser out there with Citi, with American Airlines, with Microsoft, a good set of partners to bring this live, and I feel that it's just a natural position for us to make sense of our data for our customers in a very different way. It doesn't -- it is linked to payments as all of our service propositions, but it brings a different angle. In this case, it's actually before and after the transaction at the same time. So very excited. When I saw the whole coverage at Times Square about Commerce Media on the day of launch, that was a good day for us.

That sounds exciting. Another solution you've announced is the Mastercard Threat Intelligence, which leverages your capability for -- from your acquired -- your acquisition of Recorded Future. Can you just tell us about that solution and maybe just a broader update there?

So a couple of words of -- around Recorded Future. So in our cybersecurity-related services portfolio, we grew up in the fraud transaction space, just saying, is this transaction good, yes or no? And we built a whole set of services around that. At the other end of the spectrum of cybersecurity is the overall threat to a company or a government that comes from a state actor, that comes from a consortium, packers and so forth. We had nothing to do with that. But as we were building out, slice by slice, adding on capabilities to an end-to-end security proposition that we wanted to provide the customer back to the point about the buying center of the CISO. The CISO needs to know how the company is potentially in the aims of a state actor. It could be a large bank, for example, most likely they are facing those threats, so do governments and so forth. So Recorded Future is the #1 threat intelligence company in the world. We bought them in December last year, and we've been busy integrating. And one of the synergies we had in mind, we were dreaming big at the time was we got all this payment data. They got all this threat information. How about you bring both of this together? What is the biggest problem for a company to defend against these threats? You cannot defend against all threats. It gets to -- you cannot fund this. But if somebody tells you, here's the threat, you can actually react. So threat intelligence helps you to defend in a very targeted fashion that makes this operationally effective. And we said, well, if we do that and we combine it with our payments data, you can drive -- deal with fraud in a very different and much more targeted fashion because you can pick up data out of the dark web where somebody do card testing. Somebody is going on somewhere in the dark web and saying, I just stole these card numbers and we're going to test them. Recorded Future sees that. And we take that data, put it together with our payment data, and we advise the banks upfront, this is the card that is most likely the next that will be frauded, shut it down, protect the consumer, protect the ecosystem with this combination. So when we launched this in the market, we had some initial reactions from the best banks here in the United States that are very, very good in cybersecurity. So we went to the best to test it. And we saw on the -- in the space of fake merchants, a lot of fake merchants appear on the net, like one day and people do fake transactions and then they move on and set up another site. Hundreds of fake merchants were taken down like on the first day of that. So very, very encouraging. So this combination of payments and cybersecurity is a very logical extension of our value proposition to our customers, who are all large enterprises and who are in the aim of some of these threat actors. So a bit scary at the same time, I think we've got to use the latest technology to stay ahead in the game, in this arms race of emerging threats and emerging technology.

So I mean, Recorded Future is an example of M&A that you've done pretty successfully and tucked it in and sort of created more value propositions. Can you just talk about the decisions you make to buy, partner or build?

Right. So decision is not driven by, is it cheap? So valuation is not the first question. Obviously, that matters. But we look at it from a strategy perspective, consumer, commercial services, how does it fit into that? And are we better off to buy from a speed perspective. Do we have the street credit? Do we have the talent? Can we build this in a time line where we feel this is critical from a go-to-market perspective or will it take us too long, et cetera. It's always the same logic. And as you know, as our -- who follow our stock and our investors in our company, the hurdles that we put up for ourselves from a return perspective are pretty high as well. So then you compare, am I better off to build or buy, that's where valuations do come in, and we look at that. So overall, that has not changed. That's been consistent. We continue to be acquisitive, and we look -- we will always look in these strategic pillars. and see what's out there. And we ensure that we engage with the private equity community, with the VC community just to see what's happening, what's coming up so that we have an eye on deal flow and see what's going on. So Sachin will always be very active out there. He's our CFO.

Got it. Perfect. So you've announced several wins and expansions over the last few years. What's driving your ability to win?

I think we just spent 20 -- 37 minutes about talking about that. I think it's a differentiated services portfolio that -- and a set of leading digital-first payment solutions coming together that drive a differentiated proposition. And it sounds like big words and like what is he saying? Take American Airlines. This is like one of the most successful co-brand portfolios of the world. We renewed it. And there was a big question, how do you turn this into a state-of-the-art, how you take a very well-performing co-brand portfolio and make it the state-of-the-art future co-brand portfolio. And we laid out together with American Airlines and vision on where that could go. UniCredit, it's a massive win from -- I think we signed in '24. A lot of the cards have now converted. And here was a leading pan-European bank that said, I want a simplified winning solution that cuts across 13 markets, and we believe you guys can do it better because we are very deeply and very locally invested in Europe, and we behave like a European company there, and that matters in Europe. So big differentiation. It's always a little bit of a different nuance on that. But I think it really comes down to the strategies on point for the times that we're living in, and we're executing well against it. And in the end, it comes down to one other aspect that is always a question behind that question and that is it has to be an attractive financial offer as well. So it's got to be a competitive offer. And that's where we strike the balance. We don't want to win every deal, but we want to deal -- win the deals that are -- that matter to us and kind of strike that balance and then we co-create and invest with our customers to drive the business forward.

Well, you guys have done a really good job there. So last question. So as we look forward, what are some of the areas that make you most excited about Mastercard?

Right. I'm excited...

Agentic Commerce.

Yes. Actually, secular opportunity. I think there is so much out there on the secular opportunity side. I just gave you this Mexico example. There is so much potential for us. I am excited about that. So we don't wake up and say, we need a fourth strategic priority. We love the focus on payments. We see that commercial payment flows is happening right in front of our eyes and that differentiated services portfolio. We keep nurturing it and keep differentiating it, but it's helping us on the other 2. When I look at what we laid out last year with some great fanfare at our Investor Day, you saw -- you saw the excitement of the team on stage, and that hasn't changed this year. If anything more with all the things that are going around us, feels like payments is so central, and it's a good time to be in payments.

Well, we run out of time. Michael, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thank you.