Metsä Board Oyj (METSB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
February 11, 2021
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Mika Joukio
executiveGood afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Metsä Board's results for the fourth quarter and full year of 2020. My name is Mika Joukio, and I'm the CEO of Metsä Board. Together here with me, I have our CFO, Jussi Noponen; and head of investor relations, Katri Sundstrom. As always, let's first take a look at the main events of the fourth quarter. Good demand in paperboard continued during the quarter, and delivery volumes decreased only slightly from Q3 levels. This development is normal due to seasonality. The pulp market was strong, especially in China, and demand was on a good level. Metsä Board's market pulp deliveries grew clearly from the levels of previous quarters. Prices of market pulp increased both in China and in Europe. Our material production efficiency was at the high level, which reduced production costs and improved profitability. The comparable operating result was EUR 65 million, roughly at the same level of Q3. The amendment of the environmental permit regarding the renewal of Husum pulp mill was finally approved, and we made the final investment decision on the renewal's first phase. One of the major events during the quarter was the sale of a 30% stake in the Husum pulp mill to Norra Skog. I will go through this in more detail in my next slide. The Board proposes a dividend of 60 -- excuse me, 26 euro cents per share, which corresponds to a 54 distribution of our net result. In December, we announced that we had agreed to sell a 30% of our Husum pulp mill to Norra Skog, a Swedish forest owners' cooperative. This deal ensures the long-term availability of certified Swedish pulp wood for Metsä Board. In the coming years, less wood will be imported from the Baltic countries, which decreases the mill's cost volatility and increases the certification level of purchased wood. With this transaction, our net debt decreased by approximately EUR 260 million, which makes us basically a net debt-free company. It will also decrease our financing share in the second phase of Husum pulp mill renewal by approximately EUR 100 million. The released capital will be used to further develop and grow our paperboard business, of which we have already made announcements. The transaction was closed on the 4th of January, meaning that its impacts will be included in our financial reporting as of the first quarter results 2021. Before going into the financials, let's have an update of the impact the coronavirus has had on Metsä Board's operations. The top priority in our operations has been to ensure the safety of our employees, prevent the virus from spreading, and secure the continuity of our business. And I think we have succeeded well in achieving these aims. We have avoided infection chance among employees, and our deliveries have continued without disruption during the pandemic. The annual maintenance shutdowns at our mills have been carried out successfully. Actually, the production efficiency at our mills has been during the year at the high level, and we have achieved several new production records. The impacts of the coronavirus on paperboard demand have been mixed. We have seen strong demand in food, beverage, and pharma packaging, whereas segments like luxury packaging and graphical end uses have suffered. Also, the decreased movement of people in public places reduced demand in fast food end uses, especially in the early stage of the pandemic. Despite a challenging year, our total deliveries grew from the previous year and exceeded 1.8 million tonnes. Also, the Q4 volumes were a bit higher compared to corresponding quarter last year. Seasonality had a small negative impact on the fourth quarter's volumes as always. And on the right-hand side, you can see the typical end uses of our paperboards. The majority of our boards go into food packaging or various retail packaging solutions. Then, the paperboard sales development by region in 2020, starting with our biggest market, EMEA. In folding boxboard, we saw good demand throughout the year, driven by the increased need for food and pharma packaging, in particular. In white kraftliners in Europe, there was some oversupply in the summer, and we adjusted our production accordingly. However, demand picked up towards the end of the year and has remained at good level in the beginning of the year. The average prices of paperboards decreased slightly year-on-year. Americas performed well last year, and our total delivery volumes in paperboards grew by 12% from 2019. The total delivery volumes were 484,000 tonnes, close to the targeted level of 0.5 million tonnes, which we set in 2016, along with the Husum folding boxboard expansion. Average selling prices of paperboards remains stable in local currencies. In Asia Pacific, the volumes mainly in folding boxboard decreased year-on-year. Sales declined slightly from last year, mainly due to lower market pulp prices. Higher delivery volumes offset the negative impact somewhat. The comparable operating result in the fourth quarter improved by 65% compared to the corresponding quarter last year and full year operating results by 20% compared to 2019. I think this is an excellent achievement, considering the exceptional circumstances last year and the strike in Finland at the beginning of the year. And here are the positives and negatives impacting profitability. First, the Q4 2020 versus Q4 2019. The Q4 result was improved by lower costs, especially in the paperboard business, higher volumes in market pulp, and positive impact from currencies. And for the full year 2020, the largest single positive effect came from lower production costs. Cheaper pulp improved the profitability of the paperboard business. However, we need to remember that taking into account Metsä Board's surplus in pulp, the overall impact of pulp on profit was neutral. In addition, wood, energy, and other raw material costs were lower year-on-year. On the negative side, we had lower market pulp prices, which obviously impacted negatively on the result share from Metsä Fibre. And the Finnish strike, which took place in January, February and lasted for over two weeks, had a negative impact of EUR 20 million on our operating result. Then to market pulp. As already mentioned, Metsä Board's market pulp deliveries grew year-on-year by a total of 13%. The main growth came from China, where increased economic activity supported paper and paperboard production, in particular. At the same time, global pulp supply decreased due to the maintenance work and extended shutdowns carried out by pulp producers. Also, the container shortage in traffic between Europe and Asia tightened the market, and the pulp prices started to rise. Prices have continued to rise in the beginning of this year. Good earnings performance boosted the return on capital employed to our long-term target level over 12%. In Q4, the return of capital employed exceeded 14%. And for the full year, the return was 12%. Our balance sheet remains strong. Net debt at EUR 235 million and leverage at 0.7 at the end of the year. The transaction with Norra Skog in January will further decrease our net debt by roughly EUR 260 million. Operating cash flow in the fourth quarter was EUR 84 million and free cash flow, EUR 33 million. Q4 cash flow was affected by an advanced tax payment of EUR 35 million. Throughout the year, we have witnessed a good cash flow development. This, combined with a strong balance sheet, provides us with a solid starting point for the development and growth of our paperboard business in the near future. In 2020, our total investments were EUR 166 million. In addition to the ongoing investments, the investment amounts for 2021 and 2022 depend on the decision on the planned investment that I will be talking about next. But to give you some guidance, a total of EUR 400 million to EUR 500 million could be invested by the end of 2022. And now, let's have a look at what we have in the pipeline. Starting from the Husum pulp mill renewal. In Q4, we made the final investment decision on the first phase of this investment, the new recovery boiler and turbine. The erection of the steel frame is ongoing, and the construction of the recovery boiler will start next. The expected start-up of this EUR 320 million investment is estimated in the first half of 2022. The second phase of this investment consists of a new fiber line, which will be decided on and implemented during this decade. We have started preparations for the environmental permit process, and the application will follow later on this year. In order to continue profitable growth, together with our customers, we need to increase our capacity. The high utilization rate of our current production capacity is a limiting factor for future growth. So, 3 weeks ago, we started a pre-engineering project for increasing the annual production capacity of the falling boxboard machine, board machine #1 in Husum. The annual capacity expansion would be approximately 200,000 tonnes, which is roughly 50% on top of the current capacity. We expect to make the final investment decision this summer, in which case the ramp-up of the new capacity would take place in 2023. This project would strengthen our position as Europe's leading producer of folding boxboard. Just earlier today, our company, Metsä Fibre, announced that the final investment decision on a new bioproduct mill in Kemi has been made. Construction will start in the second quarter this year, and plant startup would be in 2023. The new bioproduct mill, with 1.5 million annual capacity, will replace the old pulp mill in Kemi, which annual capacity is 620,000 tonnes. The total investment value is EUR 1.6 billion and financing consists of Metsä Fibre's own cash and debt. Metsä Board does not invest equity to finance the project. The total pulp capacity, 1.5 million tonnes per annum, includes the unbleached pulp used by Metsä Board. More about that on the next slide. Enabled by Metsä Fibre's investment decision of the new bioproduct mill, we are launching a development program for our Kemi paperboard mill, which already produces premium quality, white top kraftliners. The program will include a series of bottleneck investments and renewal works of the Board production line. It also includes purchase of the unbleached pulp production line for Metsä Fibre in 2023, once it has been modernized. After these actions, Metsä Board white kraftliner capacity will increase approximately by 40,000 tonnes and pulp capacity by 180,000 tonnes annually. All in all, investments in Kemi, by Metsä Board and Metsä Fibre will increase Metsä Board's annual surplus in pulp by roughly 325,000 tonnes. The total investment value is EUR 67 million, and it will be divided between years 2022 to 2023 with the highest wave of 2023. The development program is also a significant step towards the company's ambitious 2030 sustainability targets. The water consumption per produced paperboard tonnes at Kemi paperboard mill will be reduced by roughly 40% and energy consumption by roughly 5%. Then to the outlook. In the first quarter of 2021, our paperboard delivery volumes are expected to grow compared to the fourth quarter last year. In white kraftliners, the market situation is favorable both in Europe and the U.S., and we see a possibility of some price increases. In folding boxboard, we expect prices to remain stable. As always, the first quarter is practically a maintenance-free quarter, which supports profitability. Increased economic activity in China is posting the pulp demand, and the market situation is improving in Europe, too. This has been reflected in market pulp prices, which have risen in past months. Production costs are expected to remain fairly stable, except energy prices which will be higher. The weakened U.S. dollar against EURO will have a negative impact on the first and further the second quarter results. The negative impact on first quarter versus last quarter last year is roughly EUR 8 million. And based on this, we expect that our comparable operating result for the first quarter will improve from the last quarter of 2020. And to summarize, despite the exceptional circumstances, Metsä Board performed well in 2020. We managed to ensure the safety of our employees and our production as well as deliveries to customers have run smoothly during the pandemic. Our profitability improved, we generated a strong cash flow, and our volumes increased. The sale of a 30% minority stake of Husum pulp mill to Norra Skog made us practically a net debt-free company. This, in turn, provides an excellent platform to grow our core business, sustainable and high-quality fresh fiber paperboards. And there, we have already taken actions. We have started pre-engineering for increasing the annual folding boxboard capacity in board machine #1 at the Husum mill in Sweden by roughly 200,000 tonnes. Also, along with Metsä Fibre's investment decision of the new bioproduct mill in Kemi, we launched a development program in our Kemi paperboard mill to increase annual white kraftliner capacity by roughly 40,000 tonnes. The first phase of the renewal in Husum pulp mill is progressing, supported by the final investment decision made in December. And we have already started the preparations for the second phase. This project will have a significant contribution to our target of fossil-free mills by 2030. So, many positive things are ongoing. But at the same time, the coronavirus and vaccination progression still creates uncertainty. Our top priorities will remain on securing our employees' health and safety, ensuring the business continuity, and preventing the virus spread. And by this, we are now ready for your questions. Please go ahead.
Katri Sundström
executive[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Antti Koskivuori from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Antti Koskivuori
analystI would actually have 3 questions. I just shoot them out all in once, and we'll take it from there. The first one on kraftliner prices, we've seen some EUROP 50 per tonnes increased announcement in the market. How do you see the kind of pricing situation for kraftliner at the moment? And also, what kind of assumptions have you baked into your guidance? I think you said slight increase in kraftliner prices in Q1. Then secondly, on the kraftliner capacity increase in Kemi. So, just to confirm, maybe I missed it, but is the plan to increase the capacity by 2023? And also, if you could comment on the expected ROCE on the EUR 67 million investment? And then lastly, on input costs in 2021, there seems to be signs of inflation picking up. Now, you guide energy prices to increase in Q1 and the rest of the input cost to remain flat. Should we anticipate kind of inflationary pressures also for you in 2021 as a whole?
Mika Joukio
executiveAll right. So, starting from the white kraftliner prices. So, we have announced price increase of EUR 50 here in Europe and then $50 in America or in the U.S. market. And depending on the market, we see the increases then sometime during the first quarter, I would say, around February or latest March. And then, it doesn't necessarily go fully through that 50. So, it's a bit lower figure. But that's our, so to say, timetable with white kraftliner prices. Then, this Kemi new capacity, yes, it's coming on 2023. So, when this main investment or when the start-up of the new bioproduct mill will take place. So, this 40,000 tonnes will then be seen after that. And we don't announce the return of capital employed over projects. I mean, the company target is this 12%, and that's it. And then the costs, I would say that the -- as far as -- the first quarter is concerned, the whole year is pretty much similar, at least at this point that we don't estimate any kind of major increases preferably -- or I would say that the chemical prices. And so, they are pretty stable concerning the whole year, at least that is the situation at the moment, how we see it.
Katri Sundström
executiveNext, we have a question from Robin Santavirta from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Robin Santavirta
analystJust maybe a follow-up on the cost side. If you look at 2020 and the paperboard business, the profitability improved quite significantly, especially after the strike in Q1. What are the main reasons it seems as the core sort of side is down quite significantly? So, what are the mains -- the reasons for that? And then in terms of the paperboard business [indiscernible] for '21, you say, I guess, roughly flat input cost outlook at this stage for the full year. What is the lag if you see prices of pulp would start to increase, for example, in the summer in Sweden and Finland? So, when is that seen in your P&L?
Mika Joukio
executiveOkay. So, starting -- I mean, the main contributors concerning our profit improvement, of course, is the higher volumes in paperboard as we have estimated. And then also this positive price development in pulp, of course, that will clearly have a remarkable positive impact on our results. And that's simply the kind of how we see it at the moment. Of course, then we need to remember that from currencies from FX, that there will be a clear negative impact as far as this year is concerned. But I'm very optimistic and positive concerning the whole year. And I do not see any major threats in cost side, whether they're chemicals or other raw materials or wood at this point. At least, we do not have any signs of that.
Robin Santavirta
analystAll right. And then the lack, if you see increasing output prices, for example, in Sweden in the summer or after the summer, when is that -- what kind of idea do you have it is one quarter, 2 quarters before it was to the P&L?
Mika Joukio
executiveSo what do you mean by lack?
Robin Santavirta
analystIf the list prices of pulp would increase. I guess, first of all, you have some kind of inventory. And secondly, you have some agreements on your wood purchase in these markets. So, what kind of sort of dynamics do you have in the wood purchases and the pricing?
Mika Joukio
executiveSo of course, now when we have this Norra deal, that, of course, helps our wood procurement, clearly. And I repeat by saying that we do not see any kind of major negative impact coming from wood side, whether it's Finland or Sweden.
Robin Santavirta
analystAll right. And then another question related to paperboard. You said during the Capital Markets Day that there is a possibility that this pandemic could have some structural positives in terms of demand dynamics for you guys in paperboard. What are you seeing now where 4 months data now? Is it sort of a cyclical recovery? Or do you see some structural positives as well with, for example, fiber-based packaging, replacing other materials at the moment or this year?
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. I would say that the situation is pretty much similar as kind of 3, 4 months ago. So, we haven't -- of course, there are differences between the segments. So, food and beverage and pharma sector is doing fine. And then, of course, geographical end uses and then luxury packaging, it's a bit kind of worse. But in general terms, our order inflows are good. And last year, we run full except the strike and no reason to believe that that wouldn't be the case this year either. Of course, you never know what happens to the global economy. If this kind of pandemic goes on and goes on, that's another story. But at the moment, the demand is good, and the order books are healthy.
Robin Santavirta
analystAll right. And finally to --
Mika Joukio
executiveAnd the situation in white kraftliners is now better than, for example, last summer.
Robin Santavirta
analystFor sure. That's probably more cyclical construction. But finally, two technical questions. What was the CO2 allowance why sales gain you got in Q4 last year? And what is the amount of CO2 allowance wise that you received for this year? The price is up quite significantly. So, that probably has an impact on earnings this year as well. And then secondly, related to maintenance, what was the earnings impact in Q4 from [indiscernible] and Metsä Fibre had?
Mika Joukio
executiveOkay. Jussi Noponen will take this.
Jussi Noponen
executiveYes. I can take the emission allowance question at least. So, in the fourth quarter, we sold worth about EUR 6 million. And the new surplus for this year is still unknown, but at the yearend, we had about 800,000 tonnes of surplus from earlier years without any new surplus from this year. But there will be a surplus also from 2021.
Robin Santavirta
analystAll right. Related to the maintenance, can you give some climate?
Mika Joukio
executiveSo the question was Q4 versus Q1.
Robin Santavirta
analystYes. Yes.
Mika Joukio
executiveOf course, in Q1, this is practically maintenance free. But comparing last year Q4.
Jussi Noponen
executiveWe don't have the figure exactly here, but it is a substantial positive compared to the fourth quarter as we don't have much maintenance in the first quarter.
Mika Joukio
executiveThat's true.
Katri Sundström
executiveThe next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] from SEB. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Unknown Analyst
analystJust want to have a couple of confirmative answers around the financing of the Kemi bioproduct mill. So, do I understand it correct that there will be no equity injections from Metsä Board side? If you could please confirm that.
Mika Joukio
executiveThat's correct.
Unknown Analyst
analystAnd also --
Mika Joukio
executiveYes, confirmed.
Unknown Analyst
analystConfirmed. Excellent. And also, in that context, over the past couple of years that the Board has received dividends from Metsä Fibre, what's the proposal for 2020.
Jussi Noponen
executiveJussi here. I can take this one. So, as Metsä Fibre's net result from last year was slightly negative, so they are not proposing a dividend from last year.
Unknown Analyst
analystThat makes sense. And then on your own CapEx, maybe I missed that, but what's your CapEx guidance for 2021 full year? And if you could please break that down, how much is maintenance, how much is expansion? And also, Mika, you did give some rough guidance on CapEx for the next couple of years, specifically on the planned paperboard project. What CapEx are you expecting for the 200,000 tonnes of additional folding boxboard capacity?
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. So, concerning then the CapEx this year, it's too early to say anything because that really -- I mean, the impact then coming from the possible board machine #1 rebuild or new capacity is still open. So, it's very difficult at this point to estimate. So, we will come back to that when we have the figure. We don't have that figure yet. And I think maybe this is a disappointment as far as the answer is concerned, but we can't say much more at this point.
Unknown Analyst
analystNo, that's fair enough. I'm just a bit curious on the Husum investment. Is it so that you are looking at quite a broad range of potential projects? Or is it so that you know already now that if you go ahead, this is the amount of money fairly precisely that you're expecting to be spending?
Mika Joukio
executiveThat's precisely what we are doing at the moment. So, of course, we have a rough figure in our mind, but we want to get a kind of a more exact figure, and that's what our development people, technical people are doing at the moment. So, do you want to add?
Unknown Analyst
analystThat's fine. And then also on the -- on your net balance in terms of pulp exposure, could you please give an update on what you expect for the full year 2021 in terms of net pulp balance? And also, you said today that assuming a successful start-up in 2023, you will get an additional 325,000 tonnes of indirect pulp exposure. Could you share some of your thoughts around that? I mean, what's your targeted net pulp position? Should we expect some changes in terms of that one, the Kemi partner is up and running?
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. So, now, the situation of the Norra deal is that our pulp position is 400,000 tonnes long. And then after this, Kemi -- I mean, Metsä Fibre investment, as well as our ownership of the unbleached pulp line, then the additional capacity will be 325,000 roughly. ,So then after this Kemi implementation, whether it's Metsä Fibre, Metsä Board, then we are ballpark around 700,000.
Jussi Noponen
executiveAnd a positive investment decision on the BM 1 expansion would then take it back down a little bit.
Unknown Analyst
analystRight. Fair point. But, is it your thinking that this is something that you want to keep to keep options open? Or should we expect you to make, I don't know, reduce your ownership in Metsä Fibre beyond the start up? Or what's your general thinking around that?
Mika Joukio
executiveThe general thinking is still the same as last time we discussed about this. So, I mean, all the options are, of course, open and possible. So, nothing is carved in stone as far as the ownership of Metsä Fibre is concerned. But at the moment, we don't have any plans to change. But of course, it can be an option in the future.
Katri Sundström
executiveThe next question comes from Harri Taittonen from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Harri Taittonen
analystYes. And congratulations on getting the investment on going on the Board front. Just sort of a lot of questions have been asked already, but on the sort of [indiscernible] or on the pricing, I understood the pricing picture might be a bit sort of stronger in the U.S. I'm just wondering if you have any kind of insight to that -- the potential to sort of see your prices linked to the potential strength over there.
Mika Joukio
executiveOkay. So, I already mentioned the white kraftliner prices in the U.S. So, we have announced price increase, and then remains to be seen how much goes through. But the expectation is that sometime in February, latest March, we will see increase there. And then, as far as folding boxboard in the U.S. is concerned, we have announced price increase already in the beginning of this year, and it should be valid sometime in -- also in February, latest March. So, both folding boxboard and white kraftliner prices in the U.S. market are -- so we have announced price increases.
Harri Taittonen
analystYes. No, I guess, the folding boxboard will be sort of linked to the success of the solid sulfate price.
Mika Joukio
executiveYes, that's true.
Harri Taittonen
analystPerformance in the U.S. So, that would be the driver.
Mika Joukio
executiveThat's true.
Harri Taittonen
analystRight. No, that's good. Yes. Excellent. And then Mika, the FX impact for Q1. Understood it would be something like sort of a high single-digit number, maybe negative compared to the Q4, I mean, given the hedges postponing the impact from half a year ago. So, is that more or less the kind of quantity?
Mika Joukio
executiveOkay. Jussi will take this.
Jussi Noponen
executiveYes. So, the first quarter '21 versus fourth quarter '20 will be about EUR 8 million negative.
Harri Taittonen
analystExactly. And then there will probably be a bit more in the second quarter versus Q1.
Jussi Noponen
executiveThat's correct, yes.
Harri Taittonen
analystCorrect. Yes. Yes. And maybe -- I mean, you started with a lot of projects going on. And just wondering, I was checking if there's any development on the -- any of these sort of -- the Husum kind of investment involving that sort of increasing use of how sort of change in the barrier materials kind of -- if there is sort movement to the sort of bio-based and sort of replacing PE? And is there sort of developments in that side now running on par with all these other projects?
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. So, we have launched this new eco-barrier roughly a bit more than a year ago. And that sales has developed even though the circumstances are difficult concerning the trials, et cetera. But there has been good progress, and we see -- I'm positive concerning that particular product. But of course, then in addition to that, we are -- our target is to develop additional barrier products also in the future and that work is ongoing at the moment. But this eco-barrier that we produce at our Kyro mill in Kyroskoski, that business has developed quite okay.
Harri Taittonen
analystOkay. Excellent. No, that's good.
Katri Sundström
executiveThe next question comes from Mikael Doepel from UBS. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Mikael Doepel
analystA couple of questions. Firstly, on the folding boxboard pricing in Europe. I think you say in your release that it looks stable overall compared to the Q4. I'm not sure if you're referring to Europe only or globally. Looking at the charts at the end of the presentation, the pricing seems to be down a bit. So, maybe if you could clarify how you see the folding boxboard pricing in Europe right now. Let's start there. And I have a couple of follow-ups.
Mika Joukio
executiveOkay. So, folding boxboard demand for Metsä Board in Europe is good at the moment. As I said, all the mills are running full and order inflows are healthy. Order books are healthy. So, of course, we think about all options. I mean, also option to do something here in Europe, but no decisions have been made so far. But at the moment, situation looks good.
Mikael Doepel
analystOkay. But for the moment, you would say pricing is stable in Europe.
Mika Joukio
executivePricing is stable at the moment, yes.
Mikael Doepel
analystOkay. Okay. That's clear. And then a question on the containerboard shipping situation in Europe right now. How do you see that evolving? I mean, it's been a bit of a nightmare, I guess, from a logistical point of view globally in the second half of last year. Has there been any improvement? I mean, based on what you're seeing, I guess, you do ship some tonnage to, for example, Asia, from Europe.
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. Container situation is tight at the moment. And of course, the biggest impact is on the pulp side. But of course, we see some kind of challenges also in the paperboard side. But as you know, our volumes in Asia Pacific market, they are not that big. But you're right by saying that the container situation is tight at the moment, and it's not balanced between especially China and Europe.
Mikael Doepel
analystAnd I guess you ship a lot also to the U.S. on the folding box port side. Has that been impacted in any way?
Mika Joukio
executiveThat has been better. The problem is pretty much -- or concerns pretty much these deliveries to Asia and especially to China. But here, as far as pulp is concerned, of course, we are able to use also break-bulk deliveries and not only container deliveries. So, that option will be utilized also.
Mikael Doepel
analystOkay. That's clear. And then a final question on the financial impact of the Norra transaction. Just wondering if you could clarify that a bit. I mean, it's basically selling a minority stake in the pulp mill. And I assume that you consolidate everything 100% in your P&L and then the balance sheet, but I guess somewhere you need to subtract the minority stake, I would assume, or maybe it just flows through cash flow and dividends. But maybe if you could just clarify the financial impact on your P&L and balance sheet and cash flow from this transaction, that would be great.
Mika Joukio
executiveOkay. Jussi will take this.
Jussi Noponen
executiveYes. So, on the P&L statement, the pulp mill is consolidated 100% on all lines, but then below the P&L statement, there is a separate table of how the result is distributed between the shareholders of the parent company and the minority. But then when you calculate earnings per share, minority share is separated from the net result in there. And then, in terms of cash flow, Norra is, of course, receiving their share of the dividend that Husum pulp AB, the company, pays out.
Mikael Doepel
analystYes. Yes. And in terms of the balance sheet, I mean what kind of -- I mean, what's the size of the minority stake's going to be booked in equity there? Do you have any numbers already on that?
Jussi Noponen
executiveWe have not disclosed the structure of the equity yet, but you will then see it starting from the first quarter of this year.
Mikael Doepel
analystOkay. All right. But it's -- but we're going to have a minority basically charge in a way in the P&L coming from this, if I understood you correctly.
Jussi Noponen
executiveNot in the P&L, but when calculating earnings per share, there will be.
Mikael Doepel
analystOkay, only for EPS, not for net income?
Jussi Noponen
executiveYes, that's correct.
Katri Sundström
executiveOur next question comes from Johannes Grunselius from Kepler Chevreaux. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Johannes Grunselius
analystYes, Johannes here. Can you give some color on the lead times before the higher pulp prices comes through in your P&L? How should we be thinking about the realized price in Q1? And I mean, could you also maybe talk a little bit about how quickly the price hikes are being accepted in the market at the moment? And maybe you can sort of indicate what we should expect for the second quarter then.
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. Of course, it depends a little bit whether you are selling to China or Europe. But I would say, on the average, it takes 2 months in the rough figure. That's the [indiscernible].
Johannes Grunselius
analystCan you help us a little bit -- yes. I can do the math here, but I suppose the realized pulp prices for you will sort of not be significantly higher in the Q1 because of this 2-month delay, right?
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. The pulp price is for Metsä Board or pulp price is for our market pulp customers.
Johannes Grunselius
analystYes. I mean, I'm interested in both sides, actually.
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. I think it's pretty much the same delay.
Jussi Noponen
executiveWhat we can perhaps say more is that prices started to rise in China first before Europe. And Metsä Fibre has a higher share of their sales allocated to China. So, we will clearly start seeing the positive through Metsä Fibre's result first -- already starting from the first quarter.
Johannes Grunselius
analystOkay. I mean, what's your view on that? I suppose pulp travels quite easily, relatively easily throughout the world. So, I mean, over time, I suppose that the European pricing should be on par with China, what is -- I mean, what's your view there?
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. That has typically been the case that -- now, the difference between net prices in China and net prices in Europe is still quite high. So, euro prices are lower, if you think about the net prices. And of course, that will obviously and probably push prices up also here in Europe, if and when the development in China will continue as -- during last months.
Johannes Grunselius
analystI'm not sure if you can share this, but what's your strategy from here? Is that to go for more price hikes? Do you think the market can absorb that? Or, what's your thinking there?
Mika Joukio
executiveWould you repeat? The line was not very good.
Johannes Grunselius
analystYes, okay. Yes. I mean, you've been directive with price hikes of the -- yes, basically over the last few months. And basically, all pulp producers interacting with pulp pricing. Do you foresee more of that over the coming, let's say, weeks or months? Or do you think we -- how do you see the market? Is it still sort of -- is the market -- is the demand good enough basically for accepting more price hikes? What's your view there?
Mika Joukio
executiveIn China or in Europe?
Johannes Grunselius
analystBoth.
Mika Joukio
executiveSo, in China, the demand is good. And as we all know, the prices are really rocketing up at the moment. And of course, then the price gap -- if you think about the net prices in China, net prices in Europe, that has -- or the gap has become bigger. And for that reason, we have seen also price increases in Europe. And I personally think that that will continue.
Johannes Grunselius
analystYes. Okay. Okay. And then I have a question on the maintenance breaks or cost for that. Obviously, Q1 will be a maintenance-free quarter. But maybe I missed this, but can you remind us about how the maintenance that is planned for this year and the magnitude for these?
Mika Joukio
executiveYes. So, in rough figures, if we compare the impacts versus Q1. So, the Q2 impact is somewhere between EUR 5 million and EUR 10 million. Then Q3, somewhere between EUR 10 million and EUR 15 million. And then Q4, the highest comparing Q1, somewhere between EUR 15 million and EUR 20 million.
Katri Sundström
executiveWe now have no further questions. So, I will pass back for any closing comments.
Mika Joukio
executiveOkay. Mika Joukio here. So, thank you very much for good questions, and I wish you a good continuation of the day. Thank you. And most importantly, stay safe. Thanks.
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