Momentum Group Limited (MTM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. I'm Dan Moyane, your MC for this presentation of the annual results of Momentum Metropolitan Holdings. Welcome to the presentation of these set of results of Momentum Metropolitan Holdings for the period ended 30th of June 2022. We are coming to you live from the company's offices in Sandton in Johannesburg. Now welcome everyone as well, who's joining us, of course, virtually. We welcome the analysts, the investors, the shareholders, generalists and employees, of course, of the company who can watch us live right now either on Mpulse, that's the company's Intranet or on BDTV channel 412 on DSTV or also a live webcast that's via corpcam.com/MM14092022. And the full results are also available on the group's website and that's www.momentummetropolitan.co.za. Now thanks to the Momentum Metropolitan Group Investor Relations team for putting together today's presentation and also to the Momentum Metropolitan Group Marketing's PR and events team for their brilliant execution. Now this set of results today that you're going to hear about speaks for itself. In my view, the results amply demonstrate the significance of teamwork in the focused implementation of the group's reinvent and growth strategy, which is now in its second year. As the greatest of all foodballers of our time, that's Pelé of Brazil, once said, "no individual can win a game by himself". So it has taken a great team effort to produce this set of results to the end of June this year. Shortly, you will hear from the group CEO, Hillie Meyer; and the Group Finance Director, Risto Ketola, about how almost all the group's businesses have performed very well in this period. Now there's a man who is described as a founder of Modern Business Management, that's Peter Drucker once said, "effective leadership is not about making speeches or being liked. Leadership is defined by results, not just attributes. It is clear, therefore, that this set of results being presented here today. That Hillie as the group CEO, as the leader of the company, together with the seller group ExCo members, Jeanette Marais, Risto Ketola, Dumo Mbethe, Hannes Viljoen, Herman Schoeman, Jan Lee, Johann le Roux, Nontoosomatonzela, Peter Tshiguvho are effective leaders. Credit goes to them and their respective business teams. Let's give them all a round of applause. Now as Hillie is getting ready to present, let me remind you that special arrangements have been made for Hillie, Risto and Jeanette to respond to questions by the media. In fact, they started a bit earlier today, and we'll continue to do so after this presentation is done. Similarly, Hillie, Risto and some members of the Group SO will also be holding one-on-one sessions with the investor analyst today and over the next few days. And also, if there are questions on the platform, on our live webcast platform at the end of risto's presentation, we will entertain 1 or 2 questions at the end of this session. Thank you very much for listening to me. And now it's the moment we've all been waiting for. Let's warmly welcome to the podium. Hillie Meyer.

Thank you, Dan. Thank you for that generous introduction. As you can see with this set of results, I could afford to buy a tie again, so just for all the staff members watching me, I do have a tie again, but ties wet quickly. So a better wear it in the next month or so. I'm going to [indiscernible] deal with a few key takeouts and then I'll also cover the reinvent and growth strategy, just all the major elements and give a little bit of a very high-level review of where we are and how we're doing with some of the most important objectives that we set. Now to say that we're very pleased with this set of results with this sector results, with this -- the earnings numbers, I think, would be an understatement. We are delighted with the results. It is really very, very pleasing to step out of the very, very two difficult past years to post ZAR 4.4 billion in normalized headline earnings. On the graph here, you can see the sort of quarterly normalized headline earnings for the last 3 years. It's clear from the graph that we're getting sort of our mojo back. But it's also clear that in the very final quarter, in particular, the results were boosted by some one-offs, Risto will dig into it in a lot more detail. We're not blind to that fact. But having said that, I think it's also worth mentioning that there are at least 3 areas where we can also actually, in fact, improve. And we're -- the last year probably we had negative one-offs. I'll briefly mention them. First of all, the Africa business suffered as a result of COVID. COVID actually impacted Africa later than South Africa. Same with our health business in India. They also suffered as a result of COVID in India. And then finally, like most other short-term insurers, momentum insure had a very, very tough year from a claims point of view. So just those 3 businesses together could at least, I think, sort of make up for some of the one-offs that we gladly accept this year. Our new business volumes are also very, very pleasing. You would have seen the 10% growth in present value of new business premiums. And really, I think all the major businesses contributed very strongly. It's worth mentioning Momentum Corporate that really did brilliantly Metropolitan Life did very, very well as did Africa. And then also worth mentioning is that the investments business of a very, very high base also showed a modest increase, which I think is actually very, very good looking at some of the other competitor results that are being becoming public now. Obviously, the one thing that we need to mention because it is so important, which is not something that we're happy about, and that's our VNB, which is 14% lower than last year. At the value of new business margin of 0.9%, all I would say is we're not happy with that level of a VNB margin. But I would also just give you the comfort that a lot of our reinvent and grow objectives. There are very specific things around streamlining the business, efficiency improvements, et cetera, et cetera, will, to a large extent, I think, positively impact VNB. So we are -- it's easy in our upper mind is baked into our plans that over time of VNB will improve. I think I would also just like to single out one other business, and that is momentum Insure. You will recall earlier this year, we impaired momentum Insure. And at that time, obviously, I think, for obvious reasons, there was, I think, a bit of sort of a negative view of momentum Insure. Well, I can tell you, momentum insure is back, we're very pleased with the 12% growth in premiums on a year-on-year basis. But I think even more telling, if you compare quarter 1 of this last financial year with quarter 4, that's a 36% growth. And Momentum insure is now getting to the premium levels, new business premium levels, which we produced when Alexander Forbes and Momentum Insure operated independently. In other words, we're back to pre-COVID levels whereas many of our businesses bounced back to pre-COVID levels sooner. A few months ago, that was not the case for momentum Insure, but they're back now. As we speak, we're in the middle of a country-wide launch of a new version of our flagship life product, Myriad. The big launch today is in KwaZulu-Natal. I've seen some pictures about it. Very nice to see full boardrooms and a lot of interest in the product launch. I think by using leading-edge technology, we are actually introducing a few country first in this launch. The guys tell me they might even be a few world first. But luckily, we're not competing in the rest of the world. I'm worried about South Africa, and I know that there are a few South African first in there. In fact, I think with this launch, we are probably putting down a few differentiators that will really, I think, stead us in good state, from a competitive point of view for the short to the medium future. Not only are we introducing and almost like what's it, expanding and even improving in the interactive and dynamic pricing methodology. We're also introducing digital underwriting with the use of a mobile device. And that's really, I think, where the country first comes in. And on top of that, our onboarding process will be completely automated. The whole process from quoting, screening, digital underwriting, signatures, the onboarding process, everything is actually straight through processing. We really believe that with this launch, we will make it easier, faster, less hassle for advisers to actually support us with their business, which is why we did it in the first place. We're also introducing a few radical changes to our rewards program positioning. Over the years, multiply, which is really a comprehensive and it is one of the flagship wellness programs out there, but it's becoming very, very complex and expensive, expensive for us to maintain, I think, expensive and cumbersome for clients and even advisers tell us that, listen, it will be easier to sell your products, but to sell multiplies is actually quite a challenge sometimes. So what we're doing, we're sort of turning the thing's head upside down, and we're basically going to unbundle and multiply. And we're going to do away with cross-selling discounts. So what we will have going forward is our whole business will retain multiply. Not exactly in its current form, they're going to streamline a few things, simplify a few things, add a few new features, but they're going to retain multipliers, their wellness program, but it's going to be much more tailored to the health business and what the health business wants to reward and so on and so forth. If you look at Myriad, they're calling their sort of rewards program life returns, and that's going to be baked into this interactive pricing process that I referred to earlier. So it's actually not such a loose-standing rewards program. It's built into the product. It's a much more integrated, simple product. And even the annual processes of verifying health status and so forth, we will use digital and technology and so forth to make it easy and no visit to doctors and nurses and gyms and so forth necessary. And also momentum Insure will have their own dedicated loyalty and rewards program, and it will be centered around safety. And they will basically be rewarding sort of safety features and safety habits and so on and so forth. So we're very excited about these changes. So far, we've had limited launches and so forth, but reception has been positive. It's been a long time in the making, but we're glad that we're here today, and I think we've come up with something that's potentially going to be a win-win. Okay. Another bit of good news. You would have seen in our results announcement that there's a proposed transaction through which Abu Dhabi Investment Authority will acquire 10% in the Aditya Birla health business that we started with Aditya Birla about 5 years ago. We're diluting 5%. Our partners diluting 5%, but it's through the issue of new shares. So new money comes into the business. I think this transaction is interesting and for us, very pleasing from 2 points of view. The one is that the implied transaction value at which Abu Dhabi Investment Authority is actually buying into the business is ZAR 6 billion. It's 3x the value that we currently place on our stake, and it's 6x for our stake, the 44% interest that we will have if the transaction goes ahead. And our value of the 49% is ZAR 2.1 billion. So I think it sort of confirms that some serious value has been created here. The second pleasing aspect is the fact that funding is actually coming into the company will relieve us of funding commitments that we otherwise would have had. And over the next 2 to 3 years, I think the funding that Aditya Birla offer received should probably see the growth plans, it can be funded for the next 2 or so years, and they should be at or very close to breakeven after that. And another, I think, sort of important announcement in our results is the fact that we initiated a share buyback of ZAR 750 million that was approved. We're halfway through that share buyback program already now as we speak. So far, we've acquired shares at a 43% discount to embedded value. Now for as long as the share price trades at a very attractive discount to embedded value, we would do our best to continue and make this sort of a rolling program of share buybacks. So while the conditions are favorable, we'll keep our dividend payout ratio at the bottom end of the range that we've communicated to shareholders, so it will be at the 1/3 level, which is where it is this year with a ZAR 1.5 billion dividend. And I think we believe that, that will put us in a position to do annual buybacks of between ZAR 500 million and ZAR 1 billion per annum for as long as conditions are favorable. I will now move on to the reinvent and grow strategy. Now I'll just sort of refresh your memory. This is the signature slide. There are basically 10 bubbles sort of on the left-hand side are really the things that we need to do, the things where we set some objectives right through the organization. Every business unit got their own objectives in terms of existing channels, new channels, accelerating digital, et cetera, et cetera. And on the right hand, is to some extent, almost like the outcomes that we hope to see if all these plans come together. So I'll talk about each one of these bubbles in a bit more detail. And I'll just highlight, I think, some of the key things that are happening in the business, and I'll start with the existing channels. Here on one slide, you see a lot of -- most of our existing channels, at least on the retail side is at a very, very good year in 2021. And in spite of that, towards the end of 2021, in fact, the first quarter of this financial year, we implemented a specialized innovation almost like reorganization process, which was very disruptive. It actually costed us in new business sales in the first quarter of this year. In spite of that, MDS still had a very good year this year. But it could -- I think we've been better if we didn't implement specialization. But I think this year, specialization will kick in for us because where we used to have 160 generalists, broker consultants calling on advisers and advising them on all 5 products, which is extremely difficult and complex. We now sit with 10 EV specialist consultants, 40 investment specialist consultants and a 100 retail specialist consultants. I think it puts us in a better position to really compete with the sort of specialist and niche players out there as well. In MFP, this year, we had our first significant intake of new-to-industry planners, and that's the way in which we foresee that we will grow MFP. It was an intake of 250. We'll probably continue with somewhere between 250 and 350 new planners every year. Obviously, it's a long game this. But I think looking at our new-to-industry planners and so forth, it is really -- it's going to be very transformative for MFP because looking at the diversity that we have in those 250 planners, we're really, I think, building the MFP for the future here. Consult by momentum, I think they would be the first to say that 315 active advisers was not where they would have liked to be end of June 2022. And there are a few reasons, but I'm pretty sure they're going to catch up and still work towards the longer-term target north of 400 advisers. Metropolitan Life, a small increase in the number of advisers. But I mean, we also want to make sure that we grow with quality. So the small increase in number of agents, coupled with a small increase in productivity actually contributed to quite a meaningful growth in their new business numbers. And then I mentioned momentum Insure earlier. This unit, which basically stayed flat at around about 105, 110 consultants business development consultants in momentum Insure. This is basically the unit that I think sort of is largely responsible for the improvement in their sales numbers. And they did that by more than doubling the productivity in this sales force. So we get back to growth again. I mean, the longer-term plan is to grow to back to 160 consultants. But I think for what we achieved this year, I think it was the right way to go, make sure we get the quality back, make sure we sort of refined remuneration incentives and those sort of things. I think we've got a good base from which to grow going forward. I've got a few slides on establishing new channels. Just the first one is Momentum Life. That's mostly Myriad. It's a little bit below the radar, but the guys are busy with a few little initiatives, approaching clients directly. And it's beginning to sort of make some headway. So whereas last year, 1% of the Myriad APE was from, call it, direct declines. It was 3% in the last year. And I think getting it up to 6%, 7%, 8% will probably be the most difficult. Hopefully, after that, the thing gives a little bit of impetus. The longer-term target is to get it to 15% of Myriad's APE. Metropolitan Life, they've got a tele channel. There was a big uptick in the tele channel sales about 3 years ago, and we're maintaining it at around about 12% of the APE. We talked about GetUp here before, GetUp doubled their sales volumes. The big challenge in the GetUp initiative, and those of you that might not remember, it's really focused at millennials, it's sort of social media, marketing and so forth, we're being challenged with persistency ratios. So GetUp still need to prove its viability because with the current persistency levels, it will be impossible to build a business on those sort of ratios. So I'm not saying we're not without our challenges, but there are lots of initiatives that we -- where we try and experiment itself. One we're really very pleased with what we achieved over the last 2 or 3 years is the Momentum Corporate digitalisation project. And yes, I think this is over the 3-year period, the share of preservations that actually stayed with the group improved from around about 20% to more than 40%. So that's more than doubled. And that is a lot of hard work or hard slog. I can tell you in this federal group of ours, Momentum Corporate really had to do all the collaboration that they could. But again, I mean, quite a number of the retail business units and corporate actually worked together very, very well here. I've got 2 slides on Guardrisk. This is not as brand new channel as in maybe reinvent and growth strategy. It started over the reset and growth strategy to be honest, about 3 -- 4, 5 years ago, Guardrisk actually entered on a proprietary basis, the short-term market. And this is just a reminder that, that is a relatively new business and it's growing. It's an important channel because I mean, Guardrisk basically made use of the broker and the short-term side broker relationships. And this really -- this business is contributing meaningfully to Guardrisk already. And also to put it in perspective, the ZAR 2.5 billion gross written premium that this business did in 2022. -- one can compare with the ZAR 2.8 billion in gross written premium that we did at Momentum insure. And remember, that's the combined AFI and momentum insure. Now I know we're sort of probably the 10th largest short-term insurer on the personal side. But still, this is already a meaningful short-term insurance business. And then the next slide is about partnerships. Now I'll just sort of your create a bit of anticipation here, if I put up the slide. I don't think that a lot of people recognize the beast that Guardrisk is when it comes to forming partnerships. It has become very fashionable all strategies and companies like announcements about the partnership with this telco in a partnership with a Finco, et cetera, et cetera. Well, I can tell you that Guardrisk specializes in partnership -- in partnerships. In fact, in Guardrisk's life, there are 70 partnerships. So here, we're talking about the third-party business that Guardrisk do through sales. So they've got 70 sale partnerships with third parties, affinitive groups, there are retailers in there. There's -- all the industries, more or less are represented here. And they basically do ZAR 10 billion in gross written premium per year. That's 2.5x metropolitans annual premium. -- that happens in Guardrisk, 70 partnerships. On the Guards insurance side, there's a 120 partnerships. And here again, ZAR 6.6 billion gross written premium, almost 2.5x what momentum Insure is doing. And this is not all, there's also first-party cell captive business. I think in total, At the moment,your gross written premium is just more than ZAR 30 billion. Right. Okay. So let's move on to digital. Look, I would say that I'm very, very happy that our -- what we're now sort of beginning to refer to is our digital movement is gaining momentum. In fact, it started gaining momentum for, I'd say, 2 years, maybe ago when we started putting our reinvent and grow plans together. By the time we launched reinvent and grow a year ago, I think in our mindsets and so forth, we all realized the shift that we had to make. This year, we've appointed this into our Group Exco. He's driving this digital movement. So we've got a guy full-time digging, preparing, propagating, et cetera, et cetera. And I think it's going to pay dividends for us. What I've got on this slide, I've got a few initiatives, and these are some of the big initiatives. But what I wanted to just point out today here is that in many of our digital projects, we're now entering the second and the third year. So we're getting very close, I think, to the point where we're actually going to see the benefit. Via is the first case of endpoint? Last year, we actually announced that we told you about Via, which is our single sort of platform or engagement interface with financial advisers, independent financial advisers, our own agents and so forth. Now this Via platform is now sort of beginning to bear down properly. For our Investo product range, for example, there's continued self-service functionality being rolled out. Myriad is launched also on Via. So a lot of things you can do in your mobile, you also sort of do it on Via, and you can track new business cases on Via and so forth. So the point I'm making is Via is now, we've decommissioned all our other quote systems and platforms and stuff, and there were a number of them and Via is really being bedded down. As far as our World replatforming exercise is concerned, we're 18 months down the track, and things are going according to plan. We know that the next 12 months is going to be the most important, the most telling 12 months because in around about 12 months' time, this is the first big conversion that we'd like to do. So it's really now the time when the tech is going to hit the turf, but we're well into that project. Momentum, the -- that should be metropolitan life migration. -- in fact. The metropolitan migration, again, it took us a long time. It's very disappointing that we'll only finalize it next year. But that is -- that's another important project Momentum Metropolitan Health, moving on to a single platform. There's already one corporate on the new platform. They're converting 3 more corporates onto the platform in the first quarter next year as well as helpful me will go into the new platform. And then there would be 2 very big migrations being Momentum Health and James after that. Metropolitan is about to embark on a new savings policy admin system. So it's early days for that one. And then in okay, those momentum life momentum Insure should be swapped around. Momentum Life is a project rewired, which is, to a large extent, linked to the Via project and momentum Insure, keep in mind, there we're doing the migration of AFI to momentum, a lot of work had to go into upgrading our system and preparing it for the much broader comprehensive product range that we will have when we cater for both our AFI and our momentum clients. That was done. We've now got one system on which all new businesses are being done and what needs to be done is the AFI migrations over the next 12 months. Right. Product and service leadership. I mean I think we talked about wellness, which I think there's a few nice and interesting angles there. Myriad innovation, we're very excited about. We launched the investment hybrid annuity this year, giving you the option not necessarily to select either a living annuity or a more traditional fixed income annuity. You can sort of have a combined product, best of both worlds. Momentum Metropolitan Life introduced a limited underwriting product about a year ago. It's now already contributing 7% to the new business premiums. Momentum Corporate launched a whole number of self-service solutions. And at the moment, 20% of the Momentum corporate transactions is actually done on a self-service basis. I mentioned that investor is on a sort of a continuous rolling out process of self-service capabilities using Via. And then just helpful me remains, I think, a leading product in the low-income segment, of which we're very, very proud. Transformation. I think if we consider that the last year was actually a tough year from an employment point of view. I mean, obviously, staff numbers are not increasing. So we're very proud of 3% improvement in diversity ACI representation in both senior management and middle management. Junior management already pretty transformed a small increase, no change in top management, but we lost one ExCo member at least we replaced our one loss also with a ACI candidate. Yes. So yes, also like the only way things happen in the federal system. You've got to cascade the targets down to the business units. That's what's happening. And we're seeing the results and employment equity performance against targets, even feature in our incentive program. I'm not going to go through too much detail here, but the main contributors to the cost efficiencies that we hope to unlock all basically comes from these big IT projects that I actually talked about. And where I am quite happy that we're on target with most of these very, very big projects. And between these, the 7 blocks I've put up there that makes up for more than the ZAR 500 million in cost efficiencies that we're looking for. But the important point is every 1 of those projects got a very specific target in terms of efficiency improvements. I'm not going to say -- yes, I've got this slide, market share. Look, it's very difficult for us to timeously give an update on market share. I mean, yes, we show what we think is the -- almost like our best estimate of the changes from 2020, which is our base year to 2022. And I think, I mean, we're quite confident that both in Momentum Wealth and Metropolitan Life, there's been an uptick in market share. For the rest, from the information that we gathered, it looks like we hold our own. Even Momentum Insure, last year, it dropped a little bit of the market share, but it actually gained it back this year on it sort of come back there. So this is -- I mean, I think as more companies published numbers, one can probably refine this a bit. but we didn't not want to show it just because we're not too sure. But also, I don't think we give ourselves a benefit of the doubt here. I think we definitely gained market share in those 2 areas. I'm not going to say anything more about the normalized headline earnings or return on equity. Obviously, those numbers are baked into all our plans and Risto is going to unpack that a bit more. I would just like to conclude by just making a point that in Momentum Metropolitan, we are very, very, very aware that we now -- in the beginning of the second year of our Reinvent and Grow strategy. And it's all going to depend on delivery execution. This is the theme for this year. This is what we focus on. And this is what we would like -- hope to do for our shareholders is deliver on our Reinvent and Grow strategy. Thank you very much.

Yes. Thanks, Hillie. I didn't buy time. I'll make a promise on earnings over ZAR 5 billion. I'll get that time. I think it will be unfair to say when I think it is. Okay. So I'll talk through the financial results. I will also include some other topical matters, as I usually do, and I'll also conclude the presentation. I will keep the financial discussions reasonably high level. The SENS announcement obviously has a massive amount of detail, and we have one-on-one meetings later. So I'm going to keep the -- I'm going to try to be as and technical as humanly possible for a life insurance company results presentation. There's a -- there's maybe academia warning on 1 or 2 slides that's about it. But most of them will be reasonably straightforward. Okay. Just in terms of key financial numbers. Obviously, as Hillie said, the ZAR 4.4 billion of headline earnings is a fantastic achievement. If you look at the year-on-year growth of ZAR 3.4 billion, literally ZAR 3 billion nearly is just a change in mortality experience year-on-year. Again, without being too technical, the actual number of deaths wasn't that much lower this year. But into last year, we went sort of hopelessly underprovided for in retrospect, whereas this year, we sort of had almost the worst case outcome. Well, we thought it was a good best estimate. But in retrospect, we had a very strong provisioning at the start of this year. So it's the earnings impact that is ZAR 3 billion difference year-on-year rather than the actual underlying claims experience. Also in terms of -- Hillie did say that the earnings are maybe a bit above trend this year. I suppose I have to be holder, but if somebody asked me, what do I think there's underlying earnings here. I will probably say about ZAR 3.6 billion. That's probably -- that's if I adjust for the venture capital gains and 1 or 2 other technical items. So again, like I said, different people will have a different version, but I think ZAR 3,6 billion is probably the number you can look at earnings growth from -- into next year. Then looking at the sales volumes. 10% growth is looking good. As Hillie sort of hinted, as we've been seeing results coming out of the industry, I think the sales numbers are looking a bit better as we're looking at the industry dynamics, very pleasing across the board really except maybe Momentum Life. We're hoping next year is a good story there. Value of new business. Hillie already said that a little bit on the disappointing side. If you look at margin of 0.9%, I think 1.2% is probably a better number for us as the margin at this stage. So maybe the VNB should be 800, not 600. And you'll see later, I got that quarterly slide where most of our good quarters, VNB is about 200. And this year, we had 1 week quarter. So I suppose 4 good quarters will get you to 800 and a 1.2% margin. I'll make the point later that investments in wealth is such a big part of our business, and that is a very thin margin into the market. We're always going to have a margin that is maybe not fully comparable to other people who have more risk business in their book. Some of the other key financial numbers. We've got embedded value, growing nice and steadily, ROE V of 11.7% for the year. I think that's again a good achievement. Remember, the investment markets were actually quite difficult in the second 6 months. So first half, we had quite good tailwinds from the markets. But for the full year, investment variances were actually negative, okay? So it actually hurt EV growth a little bit. And we also reduced the valuation of the short-term insurance business and our embedded value. So it wasn't all good news, and we still managed to grow by nearly 12%. And the 2977 is an important metric to assess the buyback program. So obviously, we all know in theory, you should be doing buybacks if you can sort of buy below the intrinsic value of the organization. And we still believe that the EV is probably the best starting point to do that assessment. And at the moment, the share is trading at about a 40% discount to embedded value. The dividend is maybe 1 of the highlights of these results, even declaring a dividend towards the low end of our dividend policy. It is still a ZAR 1 dividend for the year, and that's about a 6%, 7% dividend yield on the current share price. Accountants have a cute saying that I'll sort of -- I'll misquote them. And I'll say that when you look at these numbers, you can probably think of EV as sort of vanity, IFRS results as sanity and dividend is reality. So maybe that's the order of assessing these things. Okay. This is 1 slide with a bit of a technical warning. These are our life insurance businesses, and it is impossible to talk through them without diving into 1 or 2 actuarial matters. So we started Momentum Life, earnings recovered by literally ZAR 1.9 billion year-on-year. Now you might want to jump to the conclusion that mortality must explain all of it. In fact, in this business, mortality explains quite a small part of it. So the 1 thing that is a fascinating historical aspect of the COVID pandemic, is that the different business have affected in different ways very differently. And Momentum Life was extremely hard hit in the third wave, which falls into first quarter of this financial year. So the level of mortality earnings improvement by business unit was the least in [indiscernible] Life. So mortality explains only a small part of the nearly ZAR 2 billion. The technical factors behind there is 1 of the things the yields, long-dated yields increased. I remember in this business, a lot of it is selling whole of life contracts. We sort of told people, "give us your premiums. And if you die we'll pay you out, and it's a 40-50-year time horizon." So obviously, the discount rate we apply for the long-dated liabilities or the reinvestment assumption we make, which is based on yields as well is massively important. So this business is essentially interest rates and then moved enough favor in the last year. That's probably ZAR 0.5 billion of the change. The other one is that as we're heading up to IFRS 17, we've been forced to look at a lot of our actuarial assumptions and provisioning in a bit more detail. Now accountants use a term, general provision, and they view some of our data reserves, TCF reserves, some of the reserves, they've sort of been querying to what degree can they be just if under IFRS 17. And it is true, as we work through those reserves. There's been some net releases coming through here. I suppose it does highlight the fact that we've been historically somewhat prudent in our reserving policy, and that's been addressed. Okay. So on one life, quite a few technicalities big recovery. Underlying earnings, probably ZAR 800 million, ZAR 900 million in most years. Momentum Investments had another good year. Our retail annuity book sits in here. So obviously, mortality remains elevated, which is positive for the earnings from the annuity book. We also had very good investment returns. In fact, we had no major defaults here or credit impairments. So a very good performance, both in terms of ALM management and credit management on the annuity book. Also, the investment management businesses, they're somewhat smaller than the annuity book, but their growth rate in earnings was very strong over the year. So we're seeing what we call IM business investor management to contribute quite a bit. And within that ZAR 150 million decline, there's nearly ZAR 100 million of expenses relating to the replatforming. We're expensing almost all of that. Well, in fact, almost all of it -- yes, it is almost all of it as we're developing the more modern platform for Wealth. Metropolitan Life, there's a ZAR 200 million increase here. Simple way of thinking of it is that here, the mortality improvement was quite large, about a ZAR 400 million improvement in mortality results year-on-year, offset by about a ZAR 200 million worsening in persistency. Now in Metropolitan, we have migrated some of the business on to different platforms and we're actually busy with some more of that. And we have picked up a few, let's call it, operational issues in that migration, things like policies that should have been lapsed or went lapsed, some policies that maybe shouldn't have been sold under credit as we take the affordability criteria that were sold. There were some policies where maybe we lapsed it shouldn't have been -- so is there just been a bit of adventures in Metropolitan Life has between bedding down that migration. So that had a negative persistency impact. What I can say is that in the last numbers I've seen in the last month or 2, the underlying mortalities, not the technical factors, but the actual premium paying ability and willingness of clients is reasonably steady. So I do think that as these operational issues are out the system, persistency results will improve. Then we've got Momentum Corporate, which is actually the biggest contributed to earnings this year, beating out Momentum Life. I just noticed that this morning. So Dumo, maybe not 0 to hero, but that's a bit rude, but yes. I mean I think the biggest swing in executive now probably is in corporate. So they had a very difficult year last year. Now there's ZAR 1.7 billion improvement, about ZAR 1.5 billion is mortality. Now part of it is that corporate business was less affected in the later waves than in the earlier waves. But it is also the business where we can reprice the book the quickest. So part of this improvement in results is also the reflection of premium rate that have been increased to reflect the recent experience. Now if you take away that massive mortality item. There are also other good stories in here, probably the most important being the PHI book, the disability book. If you go back 5 years, this was a perennial loss maker for us. And in the last 2 years, we have brought the profitability of the disability book to be more aligned to what we think is a fair sort of exchange between shareholders and the policyholders. So -- and that wasn't the easy task to do. On the mortality side, it's a bit easier to reprice your book. But on the PHI side, there's also a lot of work in terms of how do you deal with the claims, how do you manage people back to work. There's been quite a systematic improvement on the PHI side. Okay. Moving out of the life operations. So a little bit easier texts coming up. So Momentum Metropolitan Health -- this business is a steady performer. And again, this year, over ZAR 200 million of earnings. That's our share of earnings. It's obviously a big minority interest in this business. Health admin is probably -- it's probably a business you wouldn't rush out to do right now if you're starting from scratch. It's highly competitive, a couple of big players like ourselves and some other people. And then obviously, it is a political environment, and in the world. I mean, health care is just always a tricky field to sort of maneuver through. But we have a good business here, and it's a good performer. What is probably worth also highlighting is it is not only a cost-cutting story the whole time. Obviously, you need to be efficient with expenses in the admin business. But I was pleasantly surprised to see that the revenue grew by more than 10% year-on-year. And we're seeing quite good growth both in fee income and in underwriting business. So I think the health business is a bit of a gainer in this market segment. Also, before minorities and is actually up year-on-year. Many of you will know that we introduced new minorities during the year. So their share of earnings went up a little bit. Non-life insurance, 2 very different stories here. So Momentum insure made a small profit for the year. Again, as results have been coming out I think I'm seeing the results in a slightly different light. The result actually wasn't that bad if you consider the claims experience across the whole industry. But it is a tough environment. I mean, there's no doubt. But that's been offset by very good results from Guardrisk. Now we often rave about Guardrisk as a business, and it's probably worth stopping there again for maybe 60 seconds in that. It's easy for people to say, you know what, Guardrisk is the self captive with admin business. But I mean, really just make the point that they're increasingly taking underwriting risk and the clients are taking underwriting risk that we need to manage with them. So they're exposed to all the same weather patterns, riots, everything else that's happening in the rest of the industry. But because of their good management, of their reinsurance programs, relationship with reinsurers, clients, quite low risk appetite. They have actually made a massive profit in a very difficult year. I think Guardrisk is a -- we always say they're good at what they do and the results prove it again. Okay. Then moving on to Africa, disappointing year in terms of earnings in Africa, about ZAR 150 million decline. Probably the biggest part of that decline is mortality experience. So unlike South Africa. In rest of Africa, mortality was worse this year than last year. And a lot of it comes from Namibia and Botswana, which are big markets for us. Namibia and Botswana, both had modest first and second waves. But the third wave was actually worse per capita than the South African third wave. So if you remember how bad that was, they were even higher. So there's about ZAR 100 million -- more than ZAR 100 million decline year-on-year because of mortality experience. The other item that comes through here is health insurance profits are also lower. During the lockdown, health insurance claims declined quite a bit because people couldn't go to hospitals, they don't want to go to hospitals, there were less accidents. This year, the claims -- there's been a bit of catch up on the claims side in the health insurance. So we've gone from a very good year for health insurance to, let's say, a modest year for health insurance in Africa. Then new initiatives. The -- by far, the biggest chunk of the 466 is India. There was about a ZAR 100 million, what we call excess claims coming out of COVID-19. So India also had 1 big wave during the financial year, and that reduced our share of earnings by about a ZAR 100 million. So maybe 360, 370 is a better base to look forward from in terms of reduction of this J curve. Obviously, there's been a lot of good news around that India business lately, and I'll cover it on in a later slide. And then shareholders, the last one, I often explain the segment really as the difference between returns on our venture capital investments, which have been extremely good in the last 2 years and then head office costs as modest as they are. So for the last 2 years, the mentioned capital gains have been really good. I think this number should be closer to 0, if you want to think of a more sustainable level going forward. Okay. Sales. I think the first thing to point out on this slide is just the size of Momentum Investments. It's more than half our business volumes. And I made the point earlier that, that market segment just doesn't allow the same level of margin as maybe a funeral book or something. So that is always something to keep in mind when you're looking at our margins. The absolute level is -- I mean, ZAR 40 billion is a lot of money. I mean I'll struggle to put it in notes in this room. The Metropolitan Life, also good growth. We had a couple of people say, yes, but the quality of business last year was so, right. So I think even if you adjust -- I mean, we have done the numbers internally, even if you adjust for some of the business that were sort of afterwards, we said maybe we should have accepted because of fraud or whatever, there's still good underlying growth here and the productivity per agent in areas that didn't have any of these issues are still higher than in the prior year. So I think there is real growth in Metropolitan Life. So I sort of refuse to view that this is all bad quality growth. The Momentum Corporate, 1 of my favorite stories for the year. They were making us a bit nervous through 9 months, but then they came through with a fantastic last quarter. So sales was a strong number for the year. Also, as you'll see later, it's also a good quality business, both in terms of nature of benefits sold, margins sold. Also what's important here is the quality of clients sold to. Now I can't disclose the clients, but I was looking at the last clients that we've worked with in the last quarter, I mean these are well-known growing successful corporates. And I was joking with Dumo earlier this week that smart corporate choose funds at work. So let's hope that continues that people make the best choices they can. Okay. Momentum Metropolitan Africa, good growth in sales volumes. Some of that is corporate business, which is tight margins. So in Africa, we haven't had the same conversion of volume growth into VNB, and it's because there's been a disproportionate corporate savings business, never mind corporate risk business that came through. And then the last 1 is Momentum Life, where sales of endowments and RAs wasn't too bad. They were sort of flattish year-on-year, but Myriad sales were down. As Hillie said, there is a launch going on at the moment. And I think, yes, Myriad sales recovery is probably 1 of the most critical deliverables that we have in the group in terms of VNB improvements over the next 12 months. It is heartening to see the feedback we're getting in terms of the intermediary responses to some of the changes we're making. But you know what, people can say nice things. Let's see if the applications actually come through. Okay. New business margins. I won't belabor this slide, I have already sort of hinted at some of these things, but Momentum Life, the decline in margin is almost fully explained by the low sales of Myriad, which is the highest margin product we sell. So another view of the importance of Myriad to get that right. This margin should be well over 1% actually if Myriad sales are at a decent level. Momentum Investments, that margin is down year-on-year. But here, I must give them a little bit of a free pass because a big part of their sales are annuities. And when you sell annuities, you take quite a big view in terms of the next 40 years. I've been able to reinvest in terms of corporate paper or credit spreads. And if there's 1 feature in South African markets at the moment, it is difficult to source sort of high-quality credit. So we have reduced the reinvestment assumption that we make on the annuity book. And that is immediate -- it's almost half the margin on the annuity products by making that reduced assumption. So obviously, if the supply of credit becomes better and the spreads grow out, the profit will ultimately make will be a lot better than maybe priced into the VNB. Then we have Metropolitan Life. This should be our highest margin business, and then it should be pointing in other direction rather than down. So that decline -- there's a few dynamics. I already mentioned the fact that we sold some business that, in retrospect, like we said, maybe we should not sold stuff that came through Forward or maybe the credit checks went as thorough as they should have been. But there was also a conscious decision to do a few things. One was that we cut the fees on our savings products. Now in this part of the market, there's always that debate about value for money for clients. And we made the decision to cut the fees further on this area to make sure the products offer real returns to clients. That is a negative impact on VNB in the year. Because of that change, we also sold more of the product as a percentage of mix. And then the last 1 is also that some of the products that have been selling better like the risk products with the cashback benefit. Those actually have lower margin than the products that don't have the cashback benefit. So clients have been quite smart in their choice so far, of particular products that they have been buying. But mix part and life, I mean, this margin will need to pick up over time. Momentum Corporate, as I mentioned, this is a positive story. So it was negative VNB most of the year, but very good quality sales in the last quarter means that the VNB is actually a decent contribution. The margin could be closer to 1 over time, but again, a bit like investments, this will never be our highest margin business purely because of the competitiveness and the professional buyer that you're dealing with. And then Africa, I mean this is a personal bugbear of mine. But maybe to give myself a free pass, I can't really. But within the African number, Lesotho is actually very profitable and Botswana is also profitable, maybe not very profitable, but profitable. It is really Namibia. Namibia has quite a steep negative VNB. And it is something that we have to address. I mean the current ratio of productivity versus distribution expenses is not tenable in that business, and it is receiving a lot of attention. Then the last slide on VNB is this quarterly view. We made quite a big sum and dance maybe a year ago about the fact that our sales volumes have almost rebased themselves in that if you look at 2019 and 2020, we're listening about ZAR 12 billion, ZAR 13 billion of volumes in a normal quarter. There was a couple of high bars, but like the first bar, for example, includes a ZAR 5 billion annuity in the corporate business. And then through the recovery in the IFA support for the platform and everything else. We saw the volume sort of shift to ZAR 16 billion, ZAR 17 billion regularly. That was basically a 30%, 40%, 50% rebasing of our regular volumes. And our VNB sort of jumped from 50 to 100 to 150 to 200. And we made not a promise, but we just pointed out that at the current level of volumes, we think we can do ZAR 150 million, ZAR 200 million a quarter and the third quarter came along this year. And obviously, that raised a lot of concern with investors. At the time we explained that we actually took a lot of one-offs through the number VNB number relating to the Metropolitan in particular. A lot of the cost of -- when you sell a policy that is, let's say fraudulent or doesn't get a premium, you're selling all the cost of issuing the policy going through underwriting. So there was a heavy cost of cleaning out some of the issues there. It is good to see that the fourth quarter has recovered to the normal, let's say, run rate of ZAR 200 million a quarter. On embedded value, not a huge amount to add at this stage. The word steady growth. I'm sure marketing people, I think that's the most exciting words ever, steady growth. But for an insurance company, it's not a bad thing, we're quite happy to see quite limited volatility in this EV number. A lot of you will know that we follow quite conservative ALM and investment management mandate practices in our shareholder capital, except for the VC funds. Yes. So we would probably expect to have 1 of the more steadier EVs over time. Maybe the other thing to note here is we have a stated strategic intent to grow our non-life business to diversify our earnings. And you can see that it tends to move at a bit of at glacial speed at times, but in the last 24 months, we've got 1% of our buzz of EV being non-life to now being 27% of our EV being non-life. So we are following through slowly and steadily on the diversification argument or promise. The other EV slide maybe worth making here is the buyback impact. Now obviously, the ZAR 750 million were allocated in the buyback, we could have paid a special dividend, we could have bought something. I mean it's an active decision, capital management decision to do a buyback. And I think this slide is a very simple way of illustrating the value of that decision. So since we had started on the 10th of August, I think it was, we have bought back ZAR 382 million of shares. That's 23 million shares. It effectively increases our EV per share by ZAR 0.20. ZAR 0.20 doesn't sound like a lot of money, but when you times with about 1.5 billion shares, it's ZAR 300 million of value we have created for the remaining shareholders. So the buyback program, is adding shareholder value almost at the same rate as while our distribution attempts. So being able to do a buyback with the share price at this level is extremely value uplifting for the shareholders. And as Hillie said, we will continue to buyback shares as much as our balance sheet and liquidity position allows us to do so. I mean, okay, obviously, when the share price is ZAR 50, we'll. But anyway, as long as the share price also allows for the buyback. Okay. Capital cover ratios are good, slightly over 2%, so we're slightly above our upper target range. So we've gone from a strong position to a very strong position. Capital is the least of my worries at this stage. And then dividend, we have mentioned this a few times, but it does give me some satisfaction that declares actual good final dividend. Also, I had a few questions on the dividend policy. We pay out between 33% and 50% of earnings every year. Now with the India capital injection is largely out of the picture for the next few years, it is true that our cash position is getting better, which I'll talk about later as well. But I don't think we can -- I think we need to wait to see the IFRS 17 numbers fully before I can tell you what the new payout ratio would be. From a cash perspective, I have quite a good idea of our solvency and so on. But until I know what the IFRS 17 earnings really look like for the next few years. I don't want to commit to a payout ratio, but we'll deal with it in a year or 2. But trust me, any surplus cash coming in, we will deal with it in buybacks or special dividends until such time. Okay. I'll now move on to somewhat topical matters, particularly the third bullet point is getting me excited already. But I'll deal with the first 2 before we get there. Okay, mortality. Okay, I sort of said this slide is interesting. It's a bit like that thing with the young girl and the old woman like depends how you look at it, what you read in there. Now the obvious thing here is if you look at the mortality claims in the last 2 quarters, ZAR 2 billion. They are significantly lower than the ZAR 4 billion in the second wave and the ZAR 5 billion in the third wave. So the obvious statement to make is mortality has recovered significantly from the worst times of COVID. The less obvious one, and I think the more important one for all of us is look at the third quarter of 2020, that was the last quarter before the lockdown. Mortality actually went down in the first quarter of lockdown, that was hard lockdown, nobody left the house, and then it sort of picked up and spiked a few times at COVID. In that third quarter of 2020, Momentum had quite a normal quarter, paid ZAR 945 million of claims. Last 2 quarters, we paid ZAR 1.1 billion and ZAR 1.2 billion. We are paying ZAR 200 million to ZAR 300 million of more claims in Myriad the quarter than we used to. Similarly, at Metropolitan, ZAR 267 million, now ZAR 374 million for ZAR 100 million. I've checked look with actuaries as well. What we call actual of expected is about ZAR 120 million. We're getting 20% more debt claims still the day that we thought pre-COVID. Now why is that? I'm not a public health expert, but there's lots of theories on this, and I think some of them are right, have to be, to explain this. I suppose 1 thing is that COVID is endemic now. Deaths are lower, but they're there. There's an ongoing death toll of COVID still happening on the ground. There is the whole issue of what is the long-term impact of having had COVID in terms of cardiovascular health, respiratory health and so on, those are still uncertain. My favorite theory is the lack of screening and preventative care during the lockdown where people were scared to go to hospitals, things like cancer and cardiovascular things picking them up 3 months later or 6 months later, exponentially worse than picking up early. The socioeconomic issues in terms of the economic impact of the lockdowns. And this is a global trend, okay? So globally and in South Africa, we're seeing mortality remain elevated. I think the key point there I want to make is that I think we need to look at our retail pricing as probably going up rather than down in the next few years. I think life insurance will probably become a little bit more expensive in the coming years. Okay. So interesting data, and this is obviously continuously developing. India, we have already covered this a little bit. Just 1 or 2 additional details. So we will be a 44% shareholder if the proposed transaction, it still needs competition and regulatory approvals in India, which hopefully we will get it soon. Now the incoming shareholder will be injecting about ZAR 1.3 billion in today's exchange rate into the company. And that ZAR 1.3 billion will be used to fund the new growth plans for that health insurance business. It means our share of capital infusion is reduced by half of that roughly. So there's about ZAR 600 million, ZAR 700 million saving to our capital injection plans through this transaction. Also, as Hillie mentioned, if we carried this stake at the implied transaction price, which we dont plan to do, we'll plan to continue carrying out historical cost. It will literally increase our EBIT by nearly 10%. And as well, we're trading at 150% of EV. So it will increase our market cap by nearly 20%. Okay. So the implied valuation is very attractive. Okay. Let's move on to my grand office here, cash generation. So many of you know that I've been trying to figure out for 24 years our lifetime fees generate cash. We've seen product development then as an analyst now here. Now there's lots of ways of looking at it, but the view I'm going to give you today is the cash flowing in and out of Momentum Metropolitan Holdings. Now I think that's a good approach because a lot of our subsidiaries, particularly the bigger ones, have formal dividend policies. We also don't allow them to hold capital summer in their own businesses. So there should be a steady flow of money coming into holding as it becomes available. And also, there's a lot of intangibles, solvency ratios, liquidity, how solid is this number. I think the debates happening at the subsidiary level. take into account the intangibles much better than I can ever do at the center. So ultimately, dividends coming up, in my opinion, is the best view of cash generated by the various businesses. So that's the view I will present today. The first learning is that out of the 100-odd subsidiaries we have, 4 pay regular dividends, okay? So that's a bit of a scary thing, but don't run away yet, okay. So Momentum Life is the big one. They're really the cash generation of the group, the primary one. Guardrisk has become a very good, steady dividend payer, and it's a growing dividend payer. Then we've got the health business, as I mentioned earlier, not the easiest environment to operate in, but also a good dividend payer. And then Africa, has also been a good dividend payer over the last few years, and we expect it to continue to be so. Our big business in Africa and Namibia, the sweet 2. They're very mature. So they're in a cash generating phase of their life cycle. Just putting some numbers to it. So starting on the top left, SA Life. Last year, in case you've forgotten, there was a global pandemic. So there was no profit in life insurance and there was no dividends in life insurance either. This year, a bit more normal. So the earnings of 3.7% is a bit generous. But the dividend, I actually think is a very normal dividend from the life business. I think it's a sort of a level of dividend you can expect in most years. Then we've got Guardrisk. They have a dividend policy of 60%, which I don't think the dividends were 60% in both years, no joking, but they're good dividends. Then we've got the health business over 2 years, about ZAR 250 million of dividends. We have the minority transaction. So there was a bit of a delay in some of the dividends and so on, but most years, we'll probably pay 80% of earnings in dividends. And then we got Africa where we had a capital optimization program in the last 2 years. So we took out significant special dividends out of Africa. So they've been contributing more than their share of earnings and dividends. Now as earnings recover in Africa, the dividend should remain at about 200, not our special dividend, but just a normal underlying earnings. Okay. But this gives you a bit of history. Now this is my normal view. Now based on the last few years of life experience, I should say normally inverted commas because it comes a lot of caveats. But in a normal year, I think these 4 subsidiaries should generate about ZAR 2.5 billion of cash to holdings. Life company, similar dividends to this year. Guardrisk, ZAR 300 million and growing, hopefully, and then health in Africa, about ZAR 200 million. So I would say, across these 4 businesses, we can start with about ZAR 2.4 billion coming in. Now I mentioned underlying earnings early of 3.6%, 2.5%, [indiscernible] life 3.6%, it's about 70%. It's kind of a bad proxy to think about how much cash is generated by the mature businesses compared to group earnings. A few things to keep in mind going forward. I haven't spoke on the Momentum Insure. They had 2 very difficult years. As the underwriting cycle normalizes, that business would contribute ZAR 100 million to ZAR 200 million in dividends a year. The VC funds also, we haven't realized anything. So there's been no cash inflows. There's been unrealized gains. But going forward, eventually, when we sell something for ZAR 100 million there, ZAR 300 million there, maybe there's a few unicorns, who knows. So I think the VC funds are clearly upside in terms of cash generation from here. The investment phase is over, and now we're hoping that we can realize some of them. Investment management is also not paying much dividends. I mean, let's visit with the FNZ project as an example. So the point of the first 3 bullets is I think the 2.5% is like almost like a bit of a floor as we wait for some of the other guys to start contributing. Then we also have setting and buying of businesses. And a lot of people probably don't know, but we have actually sold more than we bought the last 2 years. We've got decent prices for both IO and Alawani. Okay. Where do we spend the money? There's really just 2 things. First 1 is India. A lot of the other projects are funded in the business units, not from holdings. India is so big, we need to fund it from holdings. So we have invested about ZAR 800 million in India over the last 2 years, more than the share of losses because we have to cover the loss and the capital to fund the growth, the regulatory capital. Now with the new shareholder coming in, if the transaction goes through, this goes to 0. 2.5 minus 400 is very different to 2.5 minus 0, okay? So the India business has a nice impact on cash generation. And the other thing we like to do with our money is we actually like to pay dividends. Last year, we paid just over half of our earnings, this year about 1/3. In red bars, I'll just show you the cash coming into MMH in both years compared to earnings. And I think this is quite a nice way of bringing it all together. We do want to give this view going forward more regularly as well. Just showing in the last year, money coming in of the operations, net M&A -- so that's ZAR 2.4 billion of cash coming to holdings. The dividend will take care of ZAR 1.5 billion of it, leaving ZAR 900 million and the approved buyback ZAR 750 million. So it's nice to see how it all fits in together. And as I mentioned, that ZAR 2.4 billion is not unusually high. So with the current dividend policy, there should be a bit of money left over for buybacks if the environment remains supportive of that. Okay. So this is what I spend most of my free time on making. While the guys were busy with the audit. Okay. Again, in conclusion -- okay. So moving on to financials, just closing off and I'm a few minutes over here already. Now same with Hillie, it is really great to see strong financial results. And the last few years, I've been standing here, concluding saying, "You know what, let's keep focusing on the stuff we can control." We can't control COVID, we can't control investment markets, we can't control the weak economy, but we can control delivering on the reinvestment growth initiatives. And we are continuing to do that. And it's nice to see the numbers are also starting to come in to reflect that. I don't know how long it takes, but over the long term, there has to be a correlation between delivery and financial performance, okay? It's not always in the same year, unfortunately, but there's definitely a correlation. It's also great for our strategy because I think the 1 thing that would make Reset and Grow so successful is we've got good early runs on the board, which energizes everybody. So I think getting good runs on the board on Reinvent and Grow will also help to energize and motivate people to keep going. Also, we take our balance sheet very seriously, as most of you know. So it is really privilege or a great thing to be in a position to do a buyback and a good dividend simultaneously. And I think the market has given us a good opportunity at the buyback shares at this price. Again, franking what Hillie was saying earlier, there's a lot of projects on the go. And a lot of these projects are very important in terms of where the group is going. I think 18 months from now, depending on delivering on those projects, we will have a much better view of where the company is going in the next 5 to 10 years. I mean these are very -- I wouldn't call it destiny changing but close to that important in terms of delivery. So no time to take eyes off the ball here. And the fourth bullet point I put in here, particularly myself because I'm a believer in being with people. I go to office as often as often as I can. I just love the energy, the ideas that pop up, being able to pop into Hillie's office and ask him something. And it's like -- I mean I know there's a lot of views out there, but I think the more we come back and the more time we spend together, the better we'll do as an organization. So I'm glad to see the hustle and bustle, particularly the Centurian office on most days, Fridays maybe not so much. Okay. And then last one, last few years, I've been congratulating -- sorry, I've been thanking staff for their hard work and effort. This year, we can fully congratulate staff for the results that came out. Very well done. I mean, I'm just a messenger here to talk about everything that you guys have done, and it is really a fantastic set of results. And also thank you to our clients for all their ongoing support. I -- yes, I think I'll stop at that, and I'll hand back over to Dan.

Thank you very much. You can take that. It's okay. Thank you very much. Well done to Risto and well done to Hillie. You must look at them now a days in Insure and when they walk. Their steps are a little bit different now. They have really got these high steps with results like this, well done. Thank you, everybody for also tuning in with us and staying with us online as well as on BDTV 412. We've got 1 question that has come up on our platform, the webcast. And then between you, Risto and Hillie, you decide who's going to answer this one. It's from Michael Christelis, UBS. How has the shape of your targeted earnings for financial year '24 changed relative to your Capital Markets Day, the CMD last year? And do these targets assume any investment variances or basis changes?

We assume that in '4 investment changes -- investment variance that is 0. So we sort of assume that there's a normal year. In '24, basis changes will be small. So if there are some expenses, for example, below inflation growth, there might be small basis changes from expenses, but it's not the key driver of that number. I think maybe what's most important for you, Mike, is as we speak now, we're tracking towards the lower end of the guided range. I think it's important to note that it hasn't been the easiest environment in the world. I think we're doing well. But if you look at that ZAR 4.6 billion to ZAR 5 billion, latest forecasts are more at the ZAR 4.6 billion than the ZAR 5 billion. Otherwise, the shape is still sort of quite steeply growing.

Thank you very much. And that will be a wrap. That will bring us to the end. So the only question that we picked up on the corpcam and you guys are going to be answering more questions this afternoon. Hillie, Jeanette and Risto with the media. We wish you well, and thank you for everybody to have joined us here live as we were presenting this wonderful strong set of results from Momentum Metropolitan Holdings for the year ended 30 June 2022. Take care and look after yourself. Thank you.