Nextdoor Holdings, Inc. (NXDR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Yes, I think we're right on time. All right, here we go. All right. Great. Look, we're going to get going with our next fireside chat for everyone who's not only in the room but listening. It's my pleasure to have the team from Nextdoor being part of the conference again this year. Nirav Tolia, CEO. Thank you so much for being part of the conference. You came here last year, and we couldn't get into all ranges of this, but you talked about founder mode, you talked about what you wanted to build. And I think this summer, we've started to see what you wanted to build starting to get executed on. So there's a lot of different areas I want to talk about, a lot of different areas to go.

But level set for us. You were a part of this company at the beginning of its chapter and you did come back to the company more recently in the CEO role over the last couple of years. Talk a little bit about the journey the company has been on as a little bit informing of what your strategic priorities are today.

Sure. And thank you for having me back. It's great to be back here, and it's now been 1.5 years since I've been back at Nextdoor, and it's been great to be back in Nextdoor. So Nextdoor's mission and Nextdoor's opportunity is no different today than it was in the summer of 2010 when we started the company. And that is our very deep belief that local will have a single winner, the same way almost every other space in the consumer Internet has a single winner or, I guess, at broadest, has an oligopoly in terms of where you go, where consumers go when they have a specific need. The specific need in our case is, I want to know what's happening around me. And when we started the company, we had this notion that social networks were on the rise, and that would be the way that people would find information. And I think that assumption has turned out to be largely true. The problem for us at Nextdoor is that as that social networking world evolved, we didn't evolve with it. And I'll get into some of the specifics and what we're trying to do to make sure that we can now get with it. But I ran the company for the first 9 years as a private company. Then we hired Goldman Alum, Sarah Friar, who at that time was the CFO at Square. She took the company public through a SPAC. And because of COVID and some of the increases in usage that we saw around COVID time, the company looked pretty healthy and had a successful IPO. But then as COVID started to come down and many companies realized that there was this bump that wasn't a real bump in usage but just a temporary one, Nextdoor was in that group. And you obviously see the stock down significantly. And so when I came back, the idea was very quickly to understand why are we not growing? Because ultimately, the stock is down, not because we're going to run out of cash or because we don't think that local is a large opportunity. It's because we haven't been able to prove that we can be the winner in local. And you can look at that proof by, how we're scaling, right? Because if we actually take on share, we should be growing revenue and ultimately should be profitable, et cetera. And so what I believed as a member of the Board, even when I wasn't CEO was that all the value for Nextdoor is generated by its product. That's a very deep belief we have. I mean typical Silicon Valley company where product development should be the hub of the company. And we should be great at building local community and local product in general. And I think we had gotten pretty far away from doing that. And so when I came in, there was this idea of, "Okay, what needs to be done." And when you come in and you know that it's a turnaround and you know that it's going to require transformation, you can go on like Elon Musk, you can say, "I'm going to cut everyone, and we're going to start from scratch." And sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have done that. Or you can go in and say, "Let me try to assess what's here," and then systematically try to make things better. And that's really the approach that we took. One of the reasons we took the approach is I wasn't new to the company. I've been on the Board. I was a co-creator of the product. And even though there is a very big difference between sitting on the Board and being an operator, I felt like I knew some of the things that needed to happen. Now as I sit here, 1.5 years later, most of the management team is new. Much of the company is new as well. And so in retrospect, I would say, I wish that we had made some changes more quickly because sometimes you realize it's easier to hire new people and sign them up for a new vision, than it is to take existing people and change their perception of what the vision should be. But I think we're in a pretty good place now. We've launched the new Nextdoor as of the middle of July, and the very, very simple idea behind the new Nextdoor is can we move our platform from an episodic use case-driven platform, where there are certain times I need Nextdoor, and it delivers for me to, I want to check Nextdoor every day because I feel like it's going to tell me things that I'm not even sure that I'm looking for. And if you think about the way that folks use X, if you think about the way that you open the New York Times every morning, the way that you think about Instagram, TikTok, those are things that are more discovery centric, where you want to know what's going on in your world. So you go there and you consume content and you see what's going on, right? And that should be the case for what's going on around you. But it hasn't with Nextdoor, I think, for a very simple reason, which is we have relied almost solely on neighbor-generated content, and that works really well, particularly around some of these episodic use cases such as, "I've lost my dog." Well, at that point, you need your neighbors to help you find your dog. I'm in the middle of a typhoon or a hurricane or the Palisades fires, you need your neighbors to come together and help you. Even when you're looking for a service provider, I need a plumber, a doctor, a dentist, your neighbors are a great source of information. But if you want to know all the things that you could do this weekend in your neighborhood, you can rely on your neighbors but your neighbors themselves probably don't know every single thing nor do they have the incentive to tell you what every single one of those things is. And so with the new Nextdoor, we've started to integrate third-party content. We started with local publishers, that's actually been received extremely well. And it's just really the tip of the iceberg. Nextdoor should be a place like TikTok or Instagram that you open up. And because we know where you live, and because there's no other place that aggregates all the local information that you could want to know, that should and can be Nextdoor.

Okay. There's a lot to mine in there, and I think we're going to try to talk through most of it as we get through the session. But let's anchor around the NEXT initiative and the rollout. What are the key learnings so far for the business? And how should we be thinking about those key learnings, building in momentum, building in scale beyond the next couple of months as we get deeper into the second half of this year and really is the jumping off point for the next couple of years for the company.

It's a great question, and I was in a one-on-one with an investor earlier today, and the investor said, okay, you've launched the new Nextdoor, do you feel like it's complete? And I thought to myself, my gosh, I really hope that I never feel like our job is complete because we're a piece of software, right? And we shouldget better and better and better over time. So let me tell you what I think we've established and you asked what we've learned and then where we're going from there. What I feel really good about in relation to the new Nextdoor is, if we take a step back and say, okay, what is our hypothesis or our strategy for how we're going to drive long-term engagement. That strategy is that there are 5 things that we think are essential to deliver to consumers if we're going to build the indispensable local application, the new Nextdoor focused on 3 of those. So we focused on news, but let's actually define that more broadly as information and really third-party information. The second thing that we focused on was alerts. The third thing that we focused on was favorites, and then there are 2 things that we didn't focus on that I think are very, very fertile for Nextdoor to focus on, but we can't focus on everything at once. And I'll just mention those, so you have the full picture. The fourth is classifieds and we do have a for-sale and free section, but we think there's a lot of opportunity in classifieds and the fifth is local groups. So let's not talk about classifieds or local groups today because we haven't actually spent any time on those. But the thing I feel really good about is when I think about that architecture, that foundation, that sense of, if you deliver these 5 things, can you become a daily habit? We've learned with the new Nextdoor that people do want local news. They do appreciate seeing things without having a specific intent to see that thing. And so if we can get the sources right, if we can get the algorithms right so that you get personalized information and if we can bring in much more content, we think that this News, Alerts and Faves, triad, which is only 3 of the 5, as I mentioned, that's an incredibly good start. So one of the things that you do when you're building consumer apps is, you have a hypothesis, you build against that hypothesis, and then you see what the feedback is. The hard thing is if you realize after building and learning that your hypothesis is wrong. The better thing is your hypothesis is right, but your features are not mature. That's where we are today. So to give you a very specific example, when we integrated local news publishers, we increased the total amount of content on the platform by 10%, okay, that was a good thing. What we really need to do is increase quality content by 10x. So it tells us, yes, information is something that people want. But the amount of information we have today, we need all the publishers, we need all of the local events. We need all the small businesses publishing things inside. We need all the schools, the churches, the temples. We need all of those people publishing content, and we need to look at AI to understand how can we prompt conversations without even having a third-party publisher insert it into the feed. So these are things that we've learned on the alert side, and this is the second pillar, right, if you think about News, Alerts and Faves, these are the 3 pillars. On the Alerts side, we found that because we know where our users live, we have a really unique opportunity to target information, in this case, Alerts, in a way that no one else can, whether it's the really, really urgent things like there is a crime that's happening next door, across the street, et cetera, or there's a tornado and your house is in the tornado's path or whether it's things that you don't necessarily think of today, like power outages and construction delays, all of those things are useful for you in a neighborhood context, but they are incredibly valuable when we take it from a neighborhood context to we know where you live. So with a power outage, for example, in the old days of Nextdoor, the power would go out and a neighbor would go and say, "Hey, neighbors, my power is out, is anyone else's power out? Okay, that was all right. Now we're getting information directly from utility companies. And when they give us the information, we can send a notification just to the homes who are affected by the outage. Because if your power is not out, you don't want to know that there's a power outage, right? If your power is out, you want to know who's this affecting, when do they think this is going to be resolved. And now we have that information, we're delivering it directly to them, right? We are -- I'm not sure that we have -- I've said this publicly. I think we -- I'm not sure if we've announced it, but we've got a partnership coming up with Waze, where we are the first company that Waze is giving their traffic data to the first consumer company. We're not paying for it. Once again, because we know where you live, if there's a road closure or there's a construction delay, we don't just blast it out to the entire neighborhood, which is what we did in the past. Now it's really just going to that small proximity of homes that are affected. And so alerts, we think, is an incredibly fertile place, but you don't have an alert every day, right? That's actually the challenge with alerts, right? And then finally, on Faves, we have something very unique on Nextdoor, we have recommendations where individual neighbors are vouching for their favorite businesses. It's a system that can't get gamed because we know that you are you, and you live in a particular place. So if a business says, I want 50 customers to go and up-vote me on Yelp or up-vote me on some other recommendation platform, they can do that. You can't do that on Nextdoor. On Nextdoor, there's a finite number of your neighbors. And when they give some local coffee shop, the Fave button, they can't do that with other coffee shops. And so what you will increasingly see as a directory of small businesses on Nextdoor that's not focused on comprehensiveness, but solely focused on quality. We have a very strong hypothesis that you don't need to know the 50 dry cleaners in your local area. You just need to know the 5 best ones. You don't need to know that there are 100 dentists that your kids can go to, you just need to know the 5 that neighbors care about and think are the very best. And so that's a value proposition with Faves. And we applied AI to Faves in a way that I think gave us a vision, not just for a section of Nextdoor, but how we could infuse AI summaries throughout the product. So again, just to answer your question more crisply, the main benefit of the launch of the new Nextdoor we're showing consumers that we were going to build better product, and that was something you do because it looks different and it has different features, and it operates differently. But the real benefit is the learning that it has created for us. So I would look much more closely at our fast follows and the releases that we're going to have between now and the end of the year to understand really what we think of as the new Nextdoor.

Okay. We'll do. You touched in your answer there about AI and there's elements of AI and machine learning that you will put in place as building blocks for where the company is going to go, obviously, a very prevalent theme here at the conference this week. But talk a little bit about what you're building and scaling with AI? And what do you think that might mean for the platform, both externally and possibly internally for the company as well.

Yes. My personal belief is that the AI transformation revolution whatever you want to call it, is certainly as big as people think and maybe even bigger. And I think the ramification is not just for consumer ramification, meaning how are we going to use these services. I think how we use these services will change whether these services survive or not. So to give you a specific example, if I am a service that depends on Google for a lot of my traffic today, I think this AI evolution is going to put these companies under a lot of pressure. And so I feel good that Nextdoor controls its own distribution today and that our content is actually proprietary. I've said that plenty of times. What we've tried to do culturally at Nextdoor is make AI a necessity. I have another strong belief having been an investor in between the time that I left Nextdoor and came back and having looked at a lot of AI companies that the best usage of AI is either by companies that are native AI companies, meaning they're born to do AI or they're forced to do AI. If you're a company that's actually doing pretty well and then you hear about AI and you start looking at how to actually involve in the process, I don't think you ever really get to truly being dependent on AI. You almost need to be born that way or it needs to be part of your survival. And so what we've done at Nextdoor is we said, "Look, this is going to be part of our survival." In fact, we're building the culture around this idea that, we have to build great product, we have to actually completely embrace AI and we have to do so as responsible stewards of capital. You haven't asked me, but we've made a lot of changes in terms of how we spend money and how we make investments because we want to create scarcity versus surplus. And if you have scarcity again, it goes back to that necessity of AI. And so if I tell people, you can't hire anyone else. But I will help you come up with 5 ways that AI can give you more leverage. That's the internal usage you're talking about. The way the consumer should see the product, I mean, gosh, I'll give you a couple of examples. We have 14 years of conversations and AI works best in a conversational format. And so we were never going to be a really good search engine if you look at the way Google does search, which is keyword-based search. In fact, if you go to Nextdoor today and you type in dentist, it's not nearly as effective to do a search as it is to go to the feed and type in, "hey, neighbors, does anyone know of a good dentist?" So the agentic evolution plays right into that natural language kind of conversation, right? So we should be able to summarize everything that's happened over the last 14 years. We should be able to analyze content and create prompts that create more comments on that content. And then the really exciting thing we should be able to do is, we should take these LLMs, see what neighbors are discussing most and create new content based on what we've learned because we're the only place where we can capture local word of mouth, right? I can't go to ChatGPT and ask it, what should I do this weekend? ChatGPT doesn't know where I live, and it doesn't actually know what all the events are, right? On Nextdoor, I can ask that query and I can get a summary, but the problem with Nextdoor today is, I have to be reading it 100% of the time because those 5 things are not posted all together today. They're posted haphazardly. So I would expect that you'll see AI used you may not see the way that it's used internally. But in terms of the product itself, right now, it's in a section of the product called Faves. That's not even live nationwide, what you will see before the end of the year is you'll see it integrated throughout the product. So it will go from being a vertical thing to being much more horizontal.

Okay. Building on that because there's a lot of content that continues to scale, both as a result of AI and a result of social media broadly, how do you position the company to be a trusted source for users? When you think about that landscape against the authentication of being connected with people in close proximity and businesses in close proximity on your platform.

There were a number of foundational decisions that we made when we started the company not knowing how they would play out. One of them was we had this idea that people would have to verify their address, use their real name, verify their address. And for many millions of users, the way they verified their addresses is we actually sent them a printed post card in the mail, right? So you want to talk about old school and some of them sound very cost effective, right? But we did it because we believed that trust was the hallmark of a neighborhood social network. What that does for us today, and it's not that we planned it this way. But what it does for us today is, whether it's how businesses are rated or the quality of the information, there's no anonymity. There's no bot that goes into Nextdoor. It is your real neighbors or publishers that we have hand chosen to come on to the platform, and you can trace the content to its source at every point of the process. And so this authenticity and fake information, false information, misinformation, disinformation, that's actually never been an issue for us. Now there are times when neighbor conversations get heated, right? And so you could say, look, there's a lot of sniping going on. There's some fighting going on between neighbors, et cetera. And that's something that I think we can also moderate better with AI. But the misinformation, disinformation, because Nextdoor is not publicly accessible, and because when you do access it, it has to be through verified identity, that's something that we've built from the ground up that protects us. Again, something that I think, particularly when AI start creating content themselves, you probably started to see this on X, right? Now many of the comments on X after someone posts are created by bots. And how do you know that? You can't do that on Nextdoor. You can't create an account on Nextdoor unless you verify your address. I don't think a bot can do that, not yet at least.

Understood. I want to pivot towards monetization. There's a couple of different angles we could take here, just a framing of how you see the current advertising environment today, what you're trying to build to in terms of widening out the advertiser array and series of partnerships over the long term. And how that all sort of sums up to what monetization looks like in the medium to long term.

Sure. Let me say 3 things about monetization. The first is, even though it looks like we are growing at a very, very small rate or not at all. What's actually happening behind the scenes is there are a number of things we did over the last 5 or 6 years that were all about maximizing short-term revenue. We don't want to do those things anymore, whether it's increased ad load or duplicate ads or backfill that's served by ads that we think are lower quality. If we had our druthers, we wouldn't generate revenue through any of those sources. Yes, it's revenue. So it's important, right? But we know that it's not great for users, and we know that long term, we'd like to have more durable revenue sources. So we have systematically removed some of that revenue because we've actually been able to grow the durable revenue. You don't see that because if we go -- like if duplicate ads is $3 million to $5 million of our revenue, and we say we're not going to show duplicate ads anymore, we have to fill that gap even to be flat, right? So the first thing I'd say is, I mean, it looks like nothing is happening, but there's a lot of stuff that's actually happening behind the scenes. And over the last 4 years, the investment that we've made in building our own ad stack out that's actually been a very good investment for us. You can see self-serve increasing, you can see CPMs going up, you can see ARPU going up. All the measures, the quantitative measures that we look at, they're all actually trending positive. All that said, the way to really make revenue, ad revenue sing on Nextdoor is to increase engagement. It's not to do all those micro optimizations, right? Because today, it's not like 5% of our inventory is monetized, if 5% of our inventory were monetized, well, then we just focus on advertising filling up 10%, 15%, 20%. That's not the case. You go to Nextdoor today, you see a lot of ads, right? That's what we need to do to generate revenue. It would be much better if we doubled engagement and showed the same number of ads or the same ratio of ads to content as we do today, right? So that's kind of the first thing I'll say. The second thing I'll say is we should be doing more than advertising to monetize, right? We know that there are companies like Yelp and Thumbtack and Angie's List that are all monetizing through relationships with service providers and 30% or so of our conversations on Nextdoor about service providers. So whether we partner with them or whether we build those kinds of services ourselves, we have to get beyond if I'm a dentist, and I mentioned on Nextdoor, the only way I can get a referral right now is by buying a CPM-based ad. That doesn't make any sense, right? We need to build a marketplace. There's no doubt about it. right? And the third thing is, I think that there are additional revenue models in addition to advertising and connections to service providers that we're just starting to lean on. But again, the leverage to me for the company is not in additional business models, the leverage to me is an additional engagement. Because if you have that engagement, it will open up all kinds of opportunities. But if you don't, you're squeezing blood out of the stone. And pretty soon, the stone is dry, right? And that's really been the story of Nextdoor as a public company.

Understood. Okay. Keep moving us along here just in the interest of time. You talked about this a little bit earlier, but when you look at the array of who you compete with to be a source for local, broadly defined, how do you assess that competitive landscape today? What do you think some of the competitive advantages you have are? And where is the pockets of opportunity where you feel very strongly of right to win in the local landscape.

It's a really good question. I do not believe that with the exception of Zillow, which is, I think, now either approaching a $20 billion market cap or maybe above $20 billion in market cap. With the exception of Zillow, I don't think anyone has 1 big in local. So that tells you something right off the bat. The companies that have done well in local are all still focused on episodic use cases, okay? They could be ones that are connecting you to a service provider or you need to make a reservation somewhere or you need to get connected to a doctor, right? It's not that daily engagement that I think ultimately makes you indispensable because even when I talk about some of these companies with consumers, many of them don't even know the brands and names of these companies, but they discover them because they go to Google and they do a Google search because they need something, and then ultimately, they end somewhere, which is really a marketplace play that has bought the traffic or somehow gotten the traffic from Google and then fulfills the transaction, but they don't even remember where they did that. In an agentic world, I think those companies are in tough spot because I just want to go to an agent, and I want to ask the agent to fulfill my request, and I think that's going to happen. So we will do some of that on Nextdoor, but the advantages that we have and the real advantage we have is we control our own distribution and our content is proprietary. So if you think about controlling your own distribution, whatever happens with Google, it's not going to affect us. Whatever happens with advertising rates on the Meta properties, that's not going to affect us. right? I mean we are all about sending our own notifications and having our own organic visitors. And we are in control of the quality of those notifications and the quality of our user experience. If we don't deliver in that quality, our traffic will go down. But if we do the traffic will go up, the proprietary content really gives me a sense that we will be protected as all these agents take over because you won't be able to go to an agent, whether it's ChatGPT or Gemini or Claude or pick your favorite agent and say, "Tell me about my neighborhood," because that information tends to be word of mouth, it isn't digitized today, okay? So what gives us a right to play? Well, we know where you live, so we have a leg up on giving you the right information versus you needing to pull that information, we can push it to you. And because we control our own distribution, we are not waiting for a middle person to send us that traffic, right? And because the content is unique, you can't get it anywhere else. So as long as we provide a quality experience, I don't think there is any competitor. In fact, I would say the competitor for us is ourselves, the competitor for us is not being relevant enough today. People don't rely on us as much as we need them to. And that's because we don't delight them day in and day out. Now if you've lost your pet, we're probably going to make you a user for life because there's no place else you can go, right? If you're in the middle of the Palisades fires, you'll never forget Nextdoor, because of what it did in that time of crisis. But we can't rely on those things. We need to be able to say, look, this weekend, you're going to Nextdoor on Thursday because you know you're going to find out something cool that's going on. And then you're going to do it. And when someone asks you, "Oh, this is cool. How did you find out about this?" You say, "I found out on Nextdoor." And then the whole virality thing starts, right? So -- but I don't -- and we don't think internally about competitors. We think about the quality of our own work. And it hasn't been good enough. So it needs to be better.

And that brings you back to your core theme around engagement more than necessarily monetization, it seems like monetization of the output engagement, sort of the input that you have to get more...

Yes. I think the interesting thing about monetization outside of advertising is that it can actually drive engagement, right? So if we had a magical way when you need a plumber, let's say that we're now talking about 2028, and you go to Nextdoor and you type in plumber. And the next thing that happens is your doorbell rings and there's a plumber at your door, right? That's really what we should facilitate. Now that is monetization that will also increase engagement because what do we want at the end of the day? We want Uber for every service. That will be the -- that would be the expectation for my kids. My kids already say it. They're like, well, Daddy, can't you push a button and get that," right? And so we really need to force ourselves with AI and with the information we have to think deeply about what are all the things that if you push a button, we could send it to your doorstep. And we know where you live. We know who's been recommended. We just need a way to tell the plumber, "Hey, by the way, someone is looking for a plumber." And that plumber knows that he's already 15 houses away, send him over to that house. right? So there are monetization mechanisms in the future. Classifieds is another one where most of the time, if it's a marketplace, it's actually creating engagement as well because you have a demand side that's coming in and looking, right? But the advertising itself today, I mean, the best way to make that better is to have more inventory. So it doesn't feel over commercial. Then ultimately, you can go to where Meta has, which is you know so much about your users and you have so much great content that the ads feel like content, but we're far from there today. And so are most people. I mean there are many, many, many entities that make money through advertising and very few where you would say the ad feels like content though, right? Meta has got that right, TikTok has got it right. Google AdWords. The ad feels like content. So you can get it that way, but it's not where we are today.

Okay. Understood. Let me squeeze one in quickly before we try to wrap it up. We talked a lot about growth and where the platform is going, bring it back a little bit lower down the P&L, how as a company and as a Board, do you manage growth investments with continuing to deliver on margins and maybe even wrapping in priorities for capital in the business as well?

Yes, it's a great question. I would say that in general, and this is probably the fact that I've started 3 companies as an entrepreneur, I believe much more in scarcity than surplus, as a way to build a culture and as a way to build a mindset. And I believe necessity is the mother of invention. And so I will probably be a little bit more hard-nosed about protecting our capital than deploying it without having a pretty good sense of what the ROI is going to be. Now that said, if I see daylight, I have no problem pouring capital into that initiative, right? But I think historically, we've done a little bit of the -- if we just hire more people, we'll have better output. And if I felt like another 100 engineers could really push the product forward, I would be explaining to you why we're actually losing more money than we are today and what that's going to yield. But today, I think it's really about the quality of ideas and execution, not the quantity of people. And so as we look -- and by the way, my Board, we have $400 million in cash. My Board did not pressure me or the rest of the management team to go to the street and say, "we're going to be breakeven in Q4, we're going to be breakeven in 2026." That was a decision that we made as a management team because we wanted to tell the company and the rest of the world, we are going to hold ourselves accountable for growing in a way that feels responsible to us. And we are going to change the categorization of the company from one that's losing money to one that's either breakeven or is on the path to profitability, right? That said, if I felt like hiring 10 ML engineers could create that magical experience I just talked about where you push a button and the plumber shows up at your door, I would be articulating why we could do that. But today, the platform is so early in its reinvention that we need to continue learning and building and growing. And that's something that, unfortunately, I don't think you could throw people at.

Yes. Understood. So sticking with that theme of early, you have used the phrase, first chapter, to describe where you are. We only have a few minutes left. Let me turn the floor over to you, characterize where we are in first chapter today and sum up the conversation we've had, and some of the messages you want to leave with investors about where the company is going in the years ahead.

Well, look, I love Jeff Bezos talking about its day 1, right? And so I think you are blessed if you have an opportunity where you wake up every morning and you think, "Oh, my gosh, there's so much to do here." And I felt that way from the beginning of starting Nextdoor. That said, to get more specific to your question, where are we in the transformation journey, I think, is the really important question, right? So I think there are kind of 3 phases, and they're not exactly sequential. There's some overlap, but it may help thinking about this as reset, rebuild, and then reaccelerate. And what investors, particularly public market investors want to know and what I get asked all the time is, when is the reacceleration going to happen, right? Because, yes, I can talk about reset and I can articulate rebuild and I can show people things, but ultimately, they want to see on a P&L. When have we now shifted to growing double-digit percentage revenue year-over-year, right, and that is not going to come until 2026, right? I mean we're not going to guide to it potentially even in 2026, we don't know yet. We took a while to reset. I mentioned that there are many different ways you can reset a company and reset its culture, we took a little bit more of an intentional but slower way of doing that, right? We've been rebuilding and that is heavy where we are today, right? The result of that rebuild should be a reacceleration. But -- and I know that this is a very frustrating thing for investors today to hear and it's frustrating for me to say. But I'd say we're still early. We're still early. The reason we're early is not because, we don't know what we're doing or because we haven't found signal, it's because we want to be extremely careful this time around that we don't take shortcuts. And because much of the ownership of the company is concentrated in existing Board members and management team members, right? We are actually playing for our own net worths, right, in addition to the investors out there. And we don't want to take the stock from $2 to $3. We want to take it from $2 to $20, but we don't see a shortcut in doing that. And so if that means that we have to wait a little bit longer, and we need to move a little bit more deliberately, but slower, we feel like that's the right trade-off.

Okay. Understood. And we're looking forward to the continuous updates and continuing the dialogue. Please join me in thanking Nextdoor for being part of the conference.

Thank you. Appreciate it.