Nextech3D.AI Corporation (NEXCF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Well, hello friends. I'm Steve Darling joining you from Proactive's worldwide studio in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada for another live stream event, this time with nextech3D.ai. We'll be talking about Toggle3D. A lot of things are happening with Toggle3D, including the removal of them from their beta form and also an IPO spinout as well lots to come with that. So joining us a little later on the program to talk a bit more about the platform itself and what it means to come out of beta will be the Chief Product Officer, Dasha Vdovina. But first, we begin with the CEO of nextech3D.ai, and that is Evan Gappelberg, who is joining us. Once again, Evan, great to see you again. How are you, my friend?

Great to be back, Steve.

Yes. It's an exciting time for Toggle3D and for nextech3D.ai. So let's talk beginning with the spin-out of the company because today is a significant day leading into what will be another significant day next week.

Yes. So as some of our investors know, we spun out ARway which was essentially done in October of 2022. That stock was spun out at $0.25 and it went as high as $2.50, so investors were able to see a 10x return. And because of that success, we're now spinning out Toggle3D.ai, which is our generative AI CAD to 3D design studio. We just announced today that it's come out of beta which means it's -- it was public beta, and now it's gone live, which is a very big deal and a major accomplishment for the team and obviously, Dasha is here to talk about that. But Toggle3D.ai really is, in my view, a very special IPO for investors in 2023. AI has really captured the imagination of investors. But for us, we use AI on a daily basis to create 3D models. And so that's really the business that we're in, Steve, and Toggle3D is essentially our design studio. It's a SaaS platform, which we think is going to scale quite quickly. So we're super excited with today's news that it's come out of beta and gone live, and we're super excited for the IPO, which is actually happening next week on June 13. So it's happening very, very quickly and today is actually the record date. So if any of our investors wanted to get any shares, and we are issuing a 4 million share stock dividend in Toggle3D. If you want to get any of those shares for free, you have to own NexTech's shares by close of trading today. So that's kind of the setup as we go into next week, Steve.

Evan, let me talk to you just a bit more about Toggle3D and not sort of how the platform works, we'll talk about it in a second. But where do you see the biggest uptick or a potential opportunity for Toggle3D. Because you talked about CAD files, not everyone uses CAD files, but there are a great amount of people who do. So where do you see the biggest opportunities for Toggle?

Yes. So first of all, Steve, the CAD file piece of the business is simply massive. You're right, not everybody uses CAD files, but the people who do are manufacturers. And so if you think of every product that's being manufactured today, in order to manufacture it, you need a CAD file. That's just the way things get made today. So there's literally millions of these CAD files that sit on AutoCAD design platforms, these supercomputers essentially, and they're essentially stranded there. And what a Toggle does is it really unleashes all these CAD files and allows manufacturers to publish their products that are in 2D on to the web in 3D, and that's what everybody really is trying to figure out is how do you get the millions and millions of products out there converted from flat 2D photography to immersive 3D experiences and Toggle3D solves the problem in a big way because it unleashes the power of these CAD files in a very frictionless, seamless way. And again, it's -- you don't need to be a coder. You don't need to be an engineer and the beauty of Toggle is that it works for everyone. You can use Toggle today, Steve, without any training, I can use Toggle, anybody can use Toggle today without any training. And that is something that nobody else in the industry can say -- now if you want to go beyond CAD files, there's plenty of opportunities for Toggle to shine in the world of gaming, for instance. We see that as the next major opportunity, also e-comm, which is something that NexTech uses Toggle for exclusively. But if you think about CAD file, Steve, that's really just the starting point. That is not the end of the road for Toggle3D. It works on any 3D file that you can load in. It's just that CAD files are the most prevalent.

Okay. Also, we have to remember that when we talk about those files, it's not like, okay, all these files are already made and they're all in 2D. They're making CAD files by the millions, I guess day after day after day. These are -- this is an industry standard that is not going anywhere.

That's right, Steve. This is a massive, massive market that is about to get disrupted because nobody has -- now how to harness the power of AI to create a point and click super simple platform that -- where you could take these complex CAD files shrink them down by up to 95% in terms of the size, so that you could publish them on the web. And this is all happening on a web-based solution, which is Toggle3D. And Dasha and I were just talking about this the other day that Adobe doesn't have a solution like Toggle3D and Adobe is really the 800-pound gorilla in this market. So we see this as a disruptive new technology platform for the 3D market. And again, we just look at the whole world, I mean you saw Apple come out with their Vision Pro glasses, which is essentially a spatial computing platform which is what ARway is purpose built for, which we could talk about on another -- I think next week, we're going to talk about that. But the point is that the Apple glasses that came out work really, really well in viewing in 3D. In fact, that's how the platform works. It basically turns the world into a 3D world. Now here's the thing, without 3D content, it doesn't really work, right? So the whole world is pivoting to 3D. And our whole portfolio of technology, Toggle3D, ARitize 3D all what we've been working on for the past 5 years really speaks to this pivot, and it is a massive, massive opportunity. We talk about e-commerce being a $5.5 trillion ecosystem that's pivoting from 2D to 3D. You start talking about the CAD market that's pivoting from 2D to 3D. You talk about gaming that's pivoting from 2D to 3D. They're mostly already in 3D. But previously, it was difficult to create these 3D environments for gaming and using our technology and other technologies out there, they're creating these immersive 3D games. And so it's game on, Steve, and we couldn't be more excited about the Toggle3D IPO, especially since it's an AI platform that I think is going to capture the attention of investors in a very big way.

Okay. Well, let's bring in your chief disruptor in the form of, Dasha Vdovina is your Chief Product Officer, who knew Dasha, you were the Chief disruptor with Toggle3D. So there you go. Great to see you again. How are you?

I'm good. Thank you for having me back, Steve.

Yes. Excited to see you again, and congratulations on coming out of beta today. And maybe just give everyone just quickly what it was like over the last 2, 3 days to a week, would you know you're going to be coming out of beta? I imagine you and the team were excited and nervous and all those things all in one.

Yes. Let's say, we definitely tested the reliability of teams being on the platform 24/7. It's been -- it's a really -- great moment as a team to be able to get here. And just the last few months that we've earned beta and talking to our customers and getting the feedback, it's really a great accomplishment and a really sort of proud moment for the team. I couldn't be more proud of us.

Yes, Dasha, let's talk about that really quickly because I think that's a really key point of this is the feedback you get from people who use the platform. And that's where you get, the rubber really hits the road is when someone says, look, here's what I do, here's what I need, here's what you're not doing, how do we do that? And then you're able to adapt and create changes to make that happen, correct?

Yes. So I think something important to realize what Toggle, right, is it's a SaaS platform. So it's out there. And whatever we claim can be completely tested by users and they can be the ones coming back to us and say, this work, this doesn't work. This is hard, I don't understand this. And that's kind of what has propelled the beta for Toggle is having these conversations and just getting users to try it. Because the tech is all there, it's on the web, anybody can access it. And also a really great thing about it is that we were testing different experience levels of users, too. So we were testing and we're talking to 3 artists, who are already very well equipped in the industry. We were also talking to those people that have never 3D modeled. And that's when you get both sides of the coin and you're able to create a platform to serve both markets, and that has all these great professional tools that appeals to that community where maybe you have 3D modeled before.

Yes. Evan, I think it's -- I've talked to you a lot about Dasha and you talked about how important her role has been at the company and the development of this. And I think that's important because these things don't happen overnight, and it takes a lot of work and a lot of work on your team's part to be able to get something like this to a point where now you're live to everyone.

100%. I mean there's been a lot of pressure on Dasha and the team behind her, but they've stood up to the pressure and delivered. And that's the key thing when it comes to being in a startup, when it comes to being an entrepreneur, there's going to be an enormous amount of pressure put on you Dasha and the team and Dasha and the team has delivered. I mean the bottom line is that from NexTech standpoint, it's always been about the team, Steve. It's a team effort. And as long as the team is focused and locked in we're going to be able to raise the capital, the growth capital to be able to deliver on all this technology that we build here at NexTech. So it's a very exciting day, couldn't be happier with Dasha and the team. And there are some really big pieces, big, big customers out there, let's say, that represent significant growth opportunities for Toggle. And again, the team -- so the team is not just building the tech, let's just be clear. They're also building relationships with major companies that are going to propel Toggle with revenue, and that's really important as well. So it's one thing to build the tech. It's another thing to be able to actually land accounts. And so we're really excited about the next 12 months.

All right. Well, I just want to remind everyone who's watching us either on YouTube or LinkedIn or wherever you're watching us that we will be taking some of your questions a little later on in our live stream events. So if you do have questions, just use the chat feature, and we'll make sure we put those Dasha and Evan a little later on. And Dasha, I know you have some things that you want to go through and a presentation you're going to share with everybody because today, as you mentioned, is a pretty big day for the company and yourself. So why don't we turn things over to you and let you do your thing and tell everyone a little bit about what's been going on.

Sounds great. So I'll just start by sharing my screen here. Okay, hopefully everyone can see that all?

Yes, we're good to go. And we're going to shut off so you can have the room to yourself.

Sounds great. So as Evan started to say, the IPO spinout has been approved. The record date is today with the anticipation that's going to be trained, June 13. On the stock market under the symbol of TGGL, so after the first set of news here. Moving forward, we're going to talk about the product a little bit because I know we've kind of been here on here before and a defined Toggle and we've talked about it a lot, but I do want to sort of clarify the messaging as we do launch out of beta and for any new investors that are joining us today, but Toggle3D is our web-based application for converting, texturing, customizing and sharing high-quality 3D models, and it's done all in one place. And each part of the definition is super important. So I do just want to -- I want to have to pilot there on the screen for everybody to see because we're doing this conversion from CAD, which again are these had manufacturing files that anything that has ever been manufactured, anything that will ever be manufactured product wise has a CAD file. But if we talk about other applications of CAD, gaming, that comes from CAD too. So CAD is being used a lot. And as you mentioned before, Steve, it is an industry standard. It's not going anywhere. And in a lot of countries, it's actually regulated on a government basis that they do have to use CAD to manufacture or to design their manufacturing solutions before they go ahead and manufacture. So with this web application, we are disrupting the $160 billion CGI software market. There's a lot of opportunity here. And this stems anywhere from creating these files, these CAD files, but also using it for applications such as simulations, marketing, presentations, virtual photography, sort of anything that you can -- any digital art work that's created using your computer essentially fits into this market and Toggle3D is right there. The other thing that's really unique about Toggle3D is that we're not just building a 3D software like Adobe, for example, or a Blender as the other things out there that are very intense. They're very heavy. There's lots of experience that you need. We're structuring Toggle in a way that it's a point and click solution that anybody can use. No experience required as long as you have an input file, you're able to go through the process and texture it, prototype design, recreate what you have from the physical into the digital. And we are very focused on the efficiency and the speed of these tools as well. And this is where we're really using that AI powered in order to help simplify the process, but also speed them up. And then lastly, I did mention CAD files, but this is our bread and butter and sort of our secret sauce is scalability because there really is no limit in terms of how many CAD files we can take. And we've recently -- we've been doing announcements as we've progressed in our R&D lab about the size of these CAD files that we can take. And so now we're able to input CAD files of up to 1,000 megabytes and be able to convert those to our friendly 3D formats reducing the size up to 95%. That's a really big piece in terms of scaling CAD files and be able to repurpose them for other use cases. So I started talking about our competitive differentiation, but I really want to drill this point out because Toggle3D is there to bridge the gap between engineering, CAD files and design. All these CGI applications that you're seeing. Most products photography that you see out there is not -- it's starting to transition to these 3D models placed into a virtual seen and rendered because it's cheaper, it's faster. Imagine carrying this massive sofa into a studio, hiring a photographer, getting pictures, paying for all this editing. It's become a big hassle and companies are looking for a simpler, faster and cheaper solution for this. And 3D is that solution. So Toggle3D is right in the middle. We have our engineering use case here on the left. These are the very large file sizes. Just to be clear, there's no sort of creative as per the CAD files. It's usually just the engineering design event. And that's what makes these CAD files so heavy. And they're not easily compatible to other software. I can't just easily export my CAD and then I'll pull it up somewhere else and continue working on it at a different platform. These files are massive and they're not -- they come in a very specific file structure that is not supported in most other applications. And then on the other side, you have these 3D content creation tools. This is where we see Adobe Blender, KeyShot. They're all focused on -- they create 3D models, but they don't start from a CAD file. They just start with the mesh. They create this mesh. It's only used for design. There's no such engineering work involved there, is the structural components correct, it's just this mesh of the object. And then they put realistic textures on it, very complicated process. There's coding involved. There's technical knowledge involved, there's entire diplomas and bachelors you can get now on how to create this 3D content. And it's a very steep learning curve, but they're very powerful tools, and they take a lot of power to power that software even to begin with. They are very time consuming and they're just connected in the sense that there's usually no end-to-end process. You have to kind of jump between multiple apps. The users that we're talking to, even though, for example, using Adobe before. Adobe has about 4 to 5 different apps that you can -- you have to jump between in order to get from real 3D mesh to a finalized 3D model that can be used in AR and that can be -- that can look realistic and be in 4K rendering. So Then we have to Toggle sort of bridging that gap together. We're taking these CAD files, we're stripping them down of any sort of heavy engineering components, and we're turning it into a 3D mesh on the CGI side that -- we're then offering you these tech stream tools that are point and click, they're super easy. You don't even know how to code. You don't need to know what's involved and what makes the 3D texture, how do I arrange my maps, how do I do -- how do I UV and wrap my model? How do I do this? How do I do that, all this technical terminology, you don't need to do that. You can just rely on Toggle to handle that for you and then provide you a beautiful library of materials or the capability to create your materials and start point and click from there. You put your material on, you adjust a few of the knobs, do you want it more glossy? Do you want to have more metallicness to it? Do you want to add a little bit of transparency to it. You don't have to worry about kind of what's happening on the back end and kind of all the complicated terminology that comes with it. And we've mentioned AI, and this is kind of the really exciting piece of toggle. And the question becomes, where do we fit into this -- this whole generative AI is sort of burst and buzz that you hear in the industry. And actually, Steve, you and I started talking about this in our last sort of conversation, but there's lots of different applications coming out with what people are going to accomplish, where they are? Are they trying to save images? Are they trying to create text? Are you trying to use AI to help you code? Are you trying to create a video? There's applications for speech. So rather than using my own voice, I can just type in what I want -- or a voice to say, and then the AI will kind of do that for you, create a voice and it'll say what I needed to say. There's also this other category where you're seeing this generative AI come into play with music, with gaming. So -- and then you have 3D models. And in comparison to this category into other categories, you can see there's not a lot of big players in the field here yet because this is hard, and we've talked about this earlier with you, Steve, it's not just about recreating a 3D model. But depending on what the application is, you also create a very particular 3D model and it has to match very particular steps that you may be given by the, let's say, e-commerce giant that is asking for this 3D model. So regarding where we fit into this -- all this great stuff that's going on. We are working on creating 3D models, and this is what we've talked about before, Steve, in the last -- in our last conversation, also the last PR that came out last week was creating 3D models from 2D images. And this is still in our laboratory, but we're seeing incredible progress there. And then we also fit into this image category here on the top left where we're creating images from text for the material generation part of it. So what the 3D material really is, it's a lot of different image maps that are put together that create this 3D effect. So when we were talking before about creating 3D materials from text prompts, that's that application, where we use a text prompt. We create about 5 to 6 different separate 2D images, and we stack them on top of each other, essentially to create this 3D material. So that's sort of where we fit in into the generative AI landscape. And there's lots of -- you can see here, lots of platforms that are on this phase to implement all of the amazing work that has been put out and kind of developed in the AI community.

Dasha, just one question on that. Is -- does the AI -- it may look like there's a lot of companies here, but I know that the AI community is quite small, and there's a lot of discussion between everybody. So are people aware of the progress that you're making? Is that something you hear about a lot?

Yes, we do have conversations with some of these companies, and we do kind of talk about and show our progress as we did in the last sort of PR that we released. So we are very active in this community. We do read about what are other people doing kind of having these conversations and it all starts to these intellectual conversations, right? Like you said, there's a lot of maybe companies here up on the screen, but in comparison to how many companies that actually are out there, this is like nothing. But this is the start of the week. This is showing you how lots of different companies are trying to take these algorithms that have been released that are super, super powerful, and they're fitting it into their industry and they're training it for their industry and then they're coming out with these amazing applications. And we're right there front and center on those front lines, also doing this for our respective industry.

Yes. I would just add, Dasha, that this graphic speaks to what you mentioned a little earlier, which is how difficult it is to crack the code on making 3D models, it's not like text it's not like chat GPT where anybody could just flag plant and say, oh, I'm in business now, I'm using ChatGPT and I'm coming up with my new AI company, and I'm going to offer text prompt solutions. I'm going to be a blog or whatever. And I'm going to be a content press release writer. So that's not the industry that we're in. And so if you think about that, that is a huge, huge competitive advantage. I would go so far as to say it creates a moat, the complexity of creating this technology that Toggle3D and NexTech has created is really creating a moat and really puts us in the position as a dominant, if not the dominant 3D model supplier. And what we're hearing from major global technology companies that we're talking to now is that they haven't seen anything better than what Toggle is, and they are looking to sign up for multiyear deals. And this is happening now real time in the first inning, like this is in public beta that we're having these conversations with major, major global companies. I'm not going to name today, but it is quite significant. So it's a competitive advantage. And I just want to point that out. When you see that graphic that Dasha was showing, there's a lot of companies there, in the text. A lot of companies in terms of coding, video, imagery images, but in the 3D model world, I mean, there's literally Mirage, CSM and Toggle. So that gives us an enormous, enormous amount of pricing flexibility and also as one of the first movers allows us to capture a significant amount of the market. So we're excited about this because, again, it's -- the whole world is pivoting to 3D.

Evan, just on that, how do you -- is that why it's so important to -- when you created this, when the team created this and Dasha as well that you right away got patents -- which are applied for patents to control that because like anything, things can get knocked off left and right. So but the protection of a patent is a big deal and that does give you that first mover protection.

Yes. I think how many patents do we have filed or pending. There's a whole portfolio that we have filed to get patented and there is more coming. But yes, this is something, Steve, that is of significant value. I mean we think this is a multibillion-dollar opportunity for Toggle. And I think Dasha has some slides to kind of explain how big this opportunity is for our investors.

Okay. Dasha, do you want to continue?

Let's do it. So right before we get there, we mentioned beta. We talked a lot about it, but I just want to summarize really what we were able to get from this period because we launched beta in January 19, 2023. We didn't really start promoting it and kind of inviting users in until the first week of February. So from February to May, which is when the beta ended, we gathered over 2,600 users and this stems from individual contributors to enterprise pilots to kind of SMEs and from the individual contributor standpoint, we've gathered feedback from both those that never 3D modeled, and those that have been 3D modeling for years and kind of hearing what they have to say about beta and hearing about why they want to Toggle, right? If they were so happy with their current solution, why would they go out of their way or want to find Toggle, but then two, to actually give it a try. And when we are talking to them and having these conversations, they were very vocal about what they don't like about the current solutions out there. Where are their pain points? And we work together with them in conversation, going back and forth talking about how will Toggle solve your pain points? How can we do this? What is our -- how we're going to do this differently than it has been done for years and years and years? And so those are the most valuable conversations that we could have got through that beta program. So on that note then on the platform from February to May, users created over 3,800 designs, over 750 files are uploaded. And this is -- this all helps us understand what are users finding in for, what types of files are they uploading? What's the most popular file format? What are they creating for these designs? What is their end use case? What is their goal coming on to the platform? We've also been in tight conversations about all these breakthrough AI developments that we've talked about on your show, Steve, and we've been releasing for these press releases. We've been able to test this and have these very in-depth conversations with users about this AI. People have their own opinions about kind of what's going on in this AI world, how can we be both beneficial and we want to ensure that the solutions that we're creating are solving those pain points. They're not just there because they're cool. But when they have this added value and they actually provide efficiency, speed, they actually helped the community reach their goals faster, more affordable in a quicker way. And with that, I'll just follow up with the slides. So user testimonials. We've got a lot of feedback about what we need to improve and continue working on. But then there's also a lot of feedback that we got that was just like, wow, like this is what we really like about Toggle, like this is -- and you'll see through these quotes here that are directly taken from real people that we've talked to is a lot of it comes down to how easy Toggle is to use and the materials, right? So materials are very, very important in 3D modeling. As I described before, any 3D material, any PBR material is actually a series of maps that are composed and put together. In any of those legacy software systems you would have to create, apply, upload, compose all of these different amounts separately. In Toggle, we prebuilt all of this for you. And if you don't like a material on our library, which is over 1,000 types, but there's always more to be had. We allow you to make your own. And so we're not asking you to make all these different maps individually. We're just asking you to provide the input patch. We'll take care of the rest. So those are kind of the really great things that we've already heard about Toggle, and we're continuing to improve and continuing developing even after this launch today. Every week thereafter, we are planning to release new updates, new features to the platform. We're lining up releases to keep everybody excited, and we have lots to come on our way now. And of course, the talking to users never stops. So even out of beta, we're still gathering feedback and our user community is very important to us. Let's talk where we are now today, June 8, 2023, we have officially launched out of beta. And what does this include? So the first point here you'll see is a new design. And some people think it's just kind of the colors and the formatting of shapes, but it's really not. It talks -- it's not just about the colors and how does this button look and how does that bar look. But the new design takes into account the feedback that we've heard from our users about where the tools need to be placed. How do we clear up the screen, so it's not overpopulated and doesn't -- it doesn't -- we don't as to worry about everything at once. How do we arrange the tools out there? They appear when and where you need them to appear. There's a lot of thought behind this new design that we introduced for Toggle. There's also been functionality improvements. So for example, on the right-hand screen here under the elements bar, we used to have a button that says group. And users said, that this button is not needed, like we don't like grouping to that button, we just want to be able to right click. So we've added this functionality. We've added functionality to better searching and find our library. How we go about applying these textures and moving these advanced texturing nobs and adding colors and stuff, we've improved the way that we're doing all of that, again, based on what we've heard. There's also features that we did not have like the undo, redo that people really wanted because design is all that iteration. So just because you apply this material, and you apply this color to it, does not necessarily mean that, that's maybe the right choice or maybe you want to go back to other selections. So again, it's all about hearing what do people like right now in the current platforms, what's missing, what can be done differently and applying that as we move forward from today and beyond. We've also improved the platform speed. So projects loading faster, materials loading faster, all that good stuff. Toggle is all about efficiencies, so this is a very important point to us. All we did definitely take some time to restructure our entire team in order to ensure that our users can reach that efficiency and the speed. We also have Google sign in. So this is just ease of getting into the platform. A lot of people don't like to have to put in their name, their e-mail. Even though we limit the amount of information we ask for upfront because we know it's a little bit of a pain point. Now we have the Google sign in. So you don't have to even worry about it because who doesn't have that -- who doesn't have a Google account these days?

Yes. Even I use, Dasha.

So do I and on every single platform that they offer it for sure. And then the last point here is the new advanced tools for more and control. So by talking to some of the advanced users they've pointed out these features that they really want to have and maybe if you don't 3D model, they're not as important to you. But if you are creating professional 3D models, you need certain features like export, you need the file structured in a certain way. Or when you are picking a material, you need to be able to control more properties than we were previously giving. So we've added these advanced tools to kind of -- to help like professional artists be able to transition to Toggle and use Toggle for their names. But we've also structured these advanced tools in a way that I would also appeal to the beginning users who maybe are not familiar at this whole pure maps thing, adding materials and all these different -- all these different functionalities. We've placed these advanced tools in a way that are descriptive. They're easy to understand. You don't need to actually know the terminology behind it. You just need to know kind of the description and planning, which -- what does it mean to add transparency to material. So -- or combine all the maps into one, just kind of very simple things, simple terminology. But the same very impressive technologies going on in the back end. It's just on the front end. We've simplified what it means to use that tool. And so we've talked about Toggle3D as a SaaS platform. That means subscriptions. We have 2 different plans currently in Toggle. We have the free plan and the pro plan. And when you sign up for this plan, it's reoccurring. So if you -- we have one user signing up for $29 a month, it's reoccurring for $340 per user per year. And when you look at the design community as teams, a lot of times, you want to be able to have more than one person on the platform. You have an entire design team that would benefit from it. So it's really important to understands that it's not necessarily priced on a business level, priced on a consumer level -- a user level. right. So as we take this example here, and we're just talking about subscriptions being a SaaS platform. We have, let's say, total subscriptions, 100,000 users, which we think is very, very achievable. And we look at a conversion rate of just 30%. So let's just take something pretty reasonable in the market 30% conversion rate to pay for subscription. That will mean 30,000 paying users, 30,000 paying users that are paying $348 a year alone on just subscriptions would be $10.4 million annual reoccurring revenue. And I think this is the most important thing to continue to drill down, right? It's not a onetime fee. In this particular case, it's reoccurring, it's subscription based.

Yes, Dasha, I think it's important to just highlight this for our investors that this is just an example of how quickly our revenue can grow off of -- if you think about it, we're in beta, and we already have thousands of users that have signed up, some of them actually came just because they loved it so much. But as we roll now out of beta and we start to put some dollars behind marketing, we're going to see a couple of thousand users scale very quickly to 50,000 to 100,000. It's going to go there. And then the conversion rate is still a little bit of an unknown, but Dasha has done some market research at 30%, we believe is achievable, and we're going to achieve that. And so if you look at the 10.4 million, that is really just the beginning of this massive, massive growth opportunity. And it really doesn't account for any enterprise customers, the enterprise accounts that we are talking to, we're in discussions with now. These are 6-figure enterprise deals. We're not addressing that at all in this kind of projection or really example. And it doesn't speak to any upsells. And so this is really just for the base user. And if -- you think about how many millions of CAD designs like we talked about in 3D models and graphic designers. I mean, Dasha, how many graphic designers are there out there? Do we know?

In the U.S. alone, the last labor statistics was 42...

Million? Something crazy.

Something crazy like that, yes.

Wow, that's amazing. Evan, we actually have -- I know we're going to take some questions here, but what you talked about there, just a moment ago, I think it's important to show -- we had a question here from Ernie, why is that you could not name companies that are interested or signed up? And maybe you can talk about that part of it because I know that -- I know there are certain parts that you're not allowed to...

So we actually have, if you're paying attention go back to the slide that shows the company names right there. We put it on the screen for you. You want me to read it out loud, so.

I get it. But you mentioned there are others. And some companies are okay with you saying, hey, we're using it and other companies are not so much. So you have to sort of -- it's a bit of a fine line, right?

Look, it's very tricky because when you're a public company -- look, the bigger corporations, I mean, I'm just going to sum it up real simply for our investors. We are putting it out there. It is on the screen, okay? But I'm talking about putting out press releases, things like that. When you do that, what ends up happening is the legal department flags the PR and they're calling the guy that we're dealing with. He's like, why am I getting a call from my legal department. You guys are putting on the press. And it just creates a bit of turbulence, let's say, within our relationship. And so we're not ready to do that, and that's really all I'm saying, right, is that we try to be as informative as we possibly can without disrupting our relationships. So hopefully, our investors understand that.

And just so you're aware, that is not unique to you because I see, obviously a lot of companies, and I see them saying very much what you're saying, and that's where it's describing a large company that sells this or that. So they do what they can...

See, we've gone further, look at the screen. Yes, so we've actually gone further. We're not saying...

Fair enough. Fair enough.

Yes. Yes.

It's a good question, now you understand.

Yes. Dasha, let's go back to the next -- the slide after, yes, the next one. There's one more.

No, that actually summarize our presentation for today.

That was it. Okay.

I do want to just talk a little bit about what you said here regarding that. This is just a subscription model. This is an example we're just launching out of beta. But if you look at the other platforms out there, a SaaS platform, it doesn't take a lot to reach 100,000 users. So the image that we're painting here is not sort of a -- this is what's available in the market. This is a very achievable goal that we believe. And this is just subscription just to show you the power of SaaS. But what's excluded here, and I just want to point it out here at the bottom is that there's a lot of upsell opportunities for Toggle. We don't necessarily need to have a subscription in the near future to be able to use some of these advanced settings that we have. We're one-off kind of rendering that you may want, so there's a lot of upsell opportunity there. We also did not include any enterprise as you mentioned, although you've seen those enterprise pilots that we just talked about. So even in beta, we've had enterprise knock at our door saying, this is something we've been trying to solve. This is something that we need. We don't care that you're in beta, we'll work with you, but we need this. I mean you guys are selling the pain point that we need.

Yes. And that's really -- solve a big problem, and there's going to be an enormous amount of money that you can make, right? Look at all the companies that are out there that are solving the biggest problems, the biggest pain points in society today. These are the companies that are the multibillion-dollar public companies today. And so we think Toggle is solving the problem with the whole 3D community, which is -- and it's not just 3D community, it's back to the manufacturer who has these CAD files is that the old legacy software is clunky and it requires an extreme level keys that the average person just does not have. Toggle appeals to the masses in addition to the people that have the expertise, the people that actually have the expertise are coming to us and saying, wow, this is so much easier. It saves us so much time. Yes, we've been using Adobe. Yes, we've been using AutoCAD, but we don't really like it. We just had no choice. Now there's a choice and they're saying, okay, we want to start using yours. And this is going as -- I mean, just to give a little more color, these companies -- these enterprise companies that we're talking to, it's -- these are multibillion-dollar global conglomerates, and it's going to the CTO, the Chief Technical Officer. You have the CEO, COO, CTO, this is the top dog at the company in terms of technology. And they're giving this the nod saying, yes, let's bring this in-house. So that is, for us, a huge confirmation that we are about to disrupt this industry in a very big way. Obviously, today's news where we've now gone live, we are out of beta is literally the first step for Toggle3D as it works towards disrupting this $100 billion-plus industry. So it's a very, very exciting day for us, Steve.

I can imagine, okay, well, let's get to a -- Dasha, are you done with your presentation?

Yes. That was it.

Okay. You can stop sharing that and what we'll do is we'll go to a few questions now. Some of these, they may not relate to specifically Toggle. So if they aren't, we can just move on. But one of them is coming from Asad and wants to know about Amazon? Is that something that Toggle would be useful with?

It's an interesting question. So in the future, there might come a day when you will be able to use Toggle to bring your 3D models on to Amazon. But today, it's really NexTech that's working to bring the 3D models on to Amazon. And we use Toggle and other technology to achieve that on a daily basis. So it is something that's a potential reality.

Okay. Let's go to Ali. Can you build a virtual -- he's talking about NFTs here. So with NFTs be -- first of all, I don't get NFTs. So I'll just go on record and saying I don't get them. I understand why people want NFTs, but they do. And Tom Brady was interested in them. So I guess I am too because I'm a Brady fan. So anyway, NFT, is that part of it?

No.

Okay, good. I want to get through that question to begin with. Here's one on revenue, which is an interesting one. Meaningful revenue come faster than you saw with ARway. Can you compare companies like that or no?

Yes. So here's the difference between ARway and Toggle3D. ARway is purely enterprise. It's 100% enterprise. We're not selling ARway to the masses. So the sales cycle is longer on ARway. But the sales are much, much bigger, meaning all the deals we're chasing on ARway are 6-figure deals. And so if you think about that and you think about, okay, it takes a little longer, but the rewards are huge. How many Toggle sign-ups do you need to achieve 6 figures? Well, let's just do the math. If we're saying 348 annually. So if we divide, so you basically need almost 300 sign-ups from Toggle to equal one sign up and the $100,000 is really the kind of lowest number on the ARway that we're quoting for, but let's just use that as an example. So it's like 300 for 1, right? So it comes of meaningful revenue, I think they're both going to show meaningful revenue. The difference is it's a lot easier to -- you're going to land a lot more $300, $400 deals than you are $100,000, $200,000, $30,000 deals. I hope that answers the question.

Okay. Someone ask a question, this obviously is one of your U.S. investors wondering about how does the spin out work for U.S. investors?

All U.S. investors, all Canadian investors, all in Europe that own the stock, Germany and throughout the rest of Europe. They will all get free stock dividends in Toggle as long as they own the shares by the close of business today. So today, you have to own the shares in order to get the spin up. But yes, it doesn't matter where you're domiciled, you will get the shares.

Yes. Someone is disputing Dasha's numbers and saying that, he feels that there's 3 million to 5 million subscribers in the next 3 years. It feels this is a really great opportunity for the company. And I think, Dasha, just I know you highlighted in the slides, but I think we should highlight it again. There are a lot of people that use these around the world, right?

Yes. Yes. So I just want to clarify something. I told Dasha not to come out with a big number. I literally was like, look, when you come out of a big number, everybody thinks you're just blowing smoke and so we're just going to put like a normal number out there. But we agree, we're just saying like, look, this is like a big opportunity to get to $10 million in recurring revenue, isn't that big a stretch to get to $100 million is going to be obviously a bigger challenge. But it's not something out of the realm of possibility because, hey, you're talking about if it's 100,000 people that you need to sign up on the platform to get to $10 million, so you need 1 million people to get to $100 million. I mean, those are big -- I mean the revenue number is huge, and that doesn't include like we talked about enterprise, it doesn't include upsells. So yes, we think this can go pretty fast. I mean...

I'm just looking at a couple of quick numbers when you talk about Adobe and what they can do and can't do. There -- I think there are about 30 million paid subscribers as of 2023. So there's lots of great opportunity, obviously, but -- of the platform. I'm not saying you're going to get there. I'm saying people have to talk about the platform.

Right, but you're making a good point. If there's 30 million -- okay, so let's say -- I mean that kind of goes back to where we were a little earlier, right, Dasha? Where we talked about how many graphic designers are out there. So we were saying 30 million, 40 million, that's a massive number. And you just backed it up with that Adobe number. And so if you think about us siphoning off 1 million of the 30 million, that gets us to $100 million in revenue.

sorry, I just have some numbers in front of me, which I think with speak well to this question. So 2020, there were 7.3 million CAD users, there's 3 million to 5 million Blender users, and there's 30 million, as you mentioned, Adobe Creative Cloud users. So just kind of taking into account that number, our 100,000 user subscription example is very, very low, but we just wanted to kind of provide an example for how quickly this number can scale and that you don't really need a lot in order to start reaching $10 million, for example, recurring revenue. But there's a lot to be had.

Yes. And let's also be clear, with $10 million in revenue, our market cap would be a couple of hundred million. And to put that into perspective, we're going to be going public at $0.25 on next week. And so if you start talking about a couple of hundred million in market cap, even 100 million, you're talking about a stock that's going to be trading between $3 and $5 a share. Of course, we're not saying that's where it's going, but we're saying if you start to connect the dots it's not something that's out of the realm of possibilities.

Yes. But again, you're not saying, we're not saying that that's where it's going to go.

No.

It's important for everyone.

No.

If not I would have jump on the platform. I'm always the cautionary one. So there it goes to make sure. That's why I'm hosting and not with the company. I'm the level ahead. Okay. Let's -- we're going to wrap up here pretty quick. Quite a few great questions coming in. Dasha final words from you just on where you're at and how excited you are for the months to come?

Yes. I can say on behalf of the team that we're extremely excited. This is sort of just the first step in a race kind of continue developing, continue bringing these really cool features out into market, continue talking to our users, as a product, but then also as a company, come Tuesday, we're very, very excited. So want to thank the entire team for their dedication, their hard work and upwards and onwards from here.

Good stuff. Dasha, thank you so much. Good to see you again. I know we'll talk soon. So I appreciate your time. Thanks.

Thank you, Steve.

Okay. Evan, final word for you, my friend.

Yes. I mean, look, we've been hard at work trying to create shareholder value over the last 5 years. We see Toggle3D as delivering on our promise. We've landed Amazon. We continue to supply Amazon with 3D models, and that relationship is getting stronger and stronger every day. When we look at ARway, which was our other spinout, ARway is essentially tucked into the Apple ecosystem, into the Magic Leap ecosystem, into the Microsoft HoloLens ecosystem with its spatial computing platform. We've come on your show, Steve and talk about spatial computing and everybody goes, huh, what's that? Now Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple has come out and said, hey, spatial computing is the next big thing. So we're a little bit ahead of the curve with our technology and with our vision, and that positions us perfectly in front of these mega trends in front of these title waves. And I think Toggle3D is now going to be the next perfectly positioned publicly traded company that our investors can get very, very excited about. So it will be NexTech with Amazon, ARway with Apple and Toggle will be, I guess, chasing after Adobe.

Yes. What we're talking more about ARway next week. We have another live stream event scheduled for next Tuesday 8:00 am Pacific 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time. So same channels there. So Evan, thank you so much. Good to see you. We'll see you next Tuesday, okay?

Thanks, Steve.

All right. There's Evan Gappelberg, the CEO of nextech3D.ai. And I want to thank you as well for tuning in to catch our live stream event here with NexTech, and we look forward to talking again in the near future. So until that time, again, thanks Dasha Vdovina, Evan Gappelberg, and I'm Steve Darling and a big thank you to Greg Anderson, our wizard of technology, who is behind the scenes working all of this. So have a great day, everyone. We'll see you soon.