NHOA S.A. (NHOA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen once again, and welcome to the investor call on the signing of a sale purchase agreement between ENGIE and TCC and the New HOrizons Ahead with our new Asian partner. [Operator Instructions] This conference call is recorded, and the transcript will be available on the corporate website, engie-eps.com, in the Investors section. The investor call will be hosted by our Chief Executive Officer, Carlalberto Guglielminotti; and Giuseppe Artizzu, our newly appointed General Manager. The press release on the sale of 60.5% of ENGIE Eps by ENGIE and TCC has been broadcasted earlier today and published on the company website. The presentation for today's call has been posted on our website, and you can find it in the dedicated pop-up appearing on the homepage of our corporate website. After the presentation, both Carlalberto and Giuseppe will be available to answer your questions. [Operator Instructions] Before we begin, I just want to point out that any forward-looking statements made during today's call are subject to the risks and uncertainties mentioned in the safe harbor statement, which is included on Page 2 of today's presentation. This also includes the risks that the agreed transaction discussed during today's call remains subject to standard conditions for this type of operations as well as any other risks and uncertainties associated with the execution of the proposed transaction. And as customary, the call will be governed by that language. So with that, I'm going to turn the call over to Mr. Carlalberto Guglielminotti.

Thank you very much, Kiara, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I really thank you for being with us today. And before presenting the New HOrizons Ahead with our new Asian partner, let me tell you what happened in the last 2 months with a very quick presentation. I'm going through the presentation that you will download on our website, and the [indiscernible] is quite telling. I mean we are committed to create transformational value together with TCC. We are ready for a new equity story. And [ if ] not more importantly, we are ready for a new brand. On the first point, you clearly see here what's -- how we reacted as a management team. I'm on Page 5. First of all, we strongly supported the equity story of joining TCC since the very beginning on the end -- of the end of strategic review. So in the context of the process, we are always being supportive of this equity story. And at the same time, today, more than ever, we see the responsibility as a management team to secure sustainable long-term value creation for this company, responsibility towards our shareholders, towards our stakeholders generally, but more importantly, towards our teams and our people. That's the reason why we have decided to not find ourselves unprepared to this moment. And even if we have not been obviously involved directly in the process and we have very limited visibility on the process and the partner, we had the opportunity to assess as a management team what can be done and what should be done in order to boost our potential together with the new partner. That's the reason why we reshaped our operating model and [ adapted ] our organization. Our new operating model is divided therefore in 2 clear different business lines. We have a clear leadership that you can see with the faces of our management team just below the label GBL. That stands for global business line. We clearly see the 2 business lines we have for storage and eMobility. You clearly see the leadership, and you clearly see the key management team and the key people in the respective area of the slide. I'm on Page 6. And then you see that in the storage global business line, we will therefore act as a geography-oriented organization. So the geographical areas will be core in order to develop a strategy with our Asian partner. An obvious focus on Asia-Pacific is the largest opportunity we have, but we do not have to forget the importance of American -- Americas in which we have over 700-megawatt towers in execution and under development, not to mention Europe. So you can easily understand why geographies are so important in our -- why our core team is so important in this respect. In the eMobility business line, there is a different strategy, which is not an operating model based -- operating by geographies but operating by brands. And you see clearly here the Stellantis brand, which is just the beginning of our equity story with Free2Move eSolutions with Stellantis, which, in any event, will give us access to around 25% of European eMobility brands. Then you see the new organization clusterized by essentially role within the organization, then the leadership, the execution key people and the corporate functions, key talent. There are few news. I mean this is not a revolution. This is just the new shape of our organization. The most important difference is deployment of the newly appointed General Manager, Giuseppe Artizzu, that you know very well since our IPO, so there is nothing really new behind. But that's an important reorganization focused on execution and delivery. And that's the reason why the new role for Giuseppe is pivotal within the organization in order to secure the projects under development, also from the operational perspective and industrial perspective and not only from the development perspective. The other big -- the appointment, certainly, is the appointment that's already mentioned last time, Ilaria Scarinci, Chief Financial Officer. And then all the rest of the management team is very well known with the exception, I think, of Luca Roccia and Lucie Kanius Dujardini, appointed respectively. Lucie will take essentially the role of Giuseppe as the Vice President, Global Markets and Development; and Luca will be appointed as Vice President, Americas, in charge of the execution in -- particularly in the United States and also in Latin America, which is, of essence, in our equity story. Then the new equity story that will change, we all know our equity story that you can see in this line in a nutshell, but moving to Page 12, we clearly see the evolution of our equity story also by enterprise value. Then we know very well the story of this company since 2013 when we were essentially a 0 enterprise value for the simple reason, at that time, we were under Chapter 11. Then 1.5 years after, we listed the company in the Euronext Stock Exchange for EUR 55 million, which was the market capital of this company, essentially equivalent to the enterprise value at that time, then in the same years merging with Elvi Energy and MCM Energy Lab, which has been the transformational step in our story to form EPS, which was the current and well-known EPS that became the #1 player in microgrid worldwide that work with Enel, Endesa, Terna, Toshiba and EDF-Edison very successfully. And that's eventually proven to be a solid industrial player in the decentralized energy space. Then we know the story, in 2018, ENGIE acquired the company for an enterprise value of EUR 108 million. In 2020, we achieved the -- in Q3 essentially the last announcement before the announcement of the ENGIE divestment, our enterprise value was over EUR 150 million. While after the announcement of the ENGIE disposal plan, our stock dropped and our implied enterprise value was slightly above EUR 110 million. But then in 2020, we've proven, and then in 2021, to react very fast and to be able and strong enough to develop iconic partnership with other partners, so on top of ENGIE, which was the big challenge. So the ability to develop projects outside the ENGIE [ group ] from the business perspective but also from the partnership perspective, and at the same time, securing the execution. So you see here in the 2020 Q4 box, the logo, Terna, which we secured as a customer of the fast reserve tender in which we have been awarded with 70 megawatts of capacity. 28% of the [ Italian ] fast reserve would be provided by the ENGIE Eps technology, which is by far the #1 in Italy despite the incumbent position of several players. And in 2021, signing the agreement with Stellantis, which was not -- certainly not obvious and Free2Move eSolutions creation. A few weeks ago, we are closing as expected in a few days. And then last, but certainly not least, 2021, yesterday, ENGIE announced the acquisition by TCC of their stake for an implied enterprise value of EUR 240 million. I think this equity story represents very well what we have done. This is the evolution by [ new losses ], essentially the main achievements that we have made, that we've -- [ more ] anticipation on our new brand that you can see also in our backdrop. But let me comment why we really think TCC can be a transformational step our equity story. I mean it's very simple, and there are 3 clusters. The first cluster is that TCC is an ambitious industrial partner, with a blue-chip standing and a global sustainability play. I mean if you look to figures, EUR 1 billion plus EBITDA, focused on ecology, green, sustainability, environment, planets, I mean that's a visionary step for a company that is not obliged like other companies in other sectors like oil and gas to change and to transform. They are not obliged because they are in a very solid and profitable business as a conglomerate in nature. So they do not have any urgency to find the new equity story or to find a transformational step. The reason why they are so focused on circular economy, on green, on -- focusing on our planet, on environmental issues, on energy efficiency is very simple. It's because they really believe [indiscernible], and they really believe in a story that they decided to embrace, which is a story of sustainability and the story that they want to share with us. And then the result is a EUR 10 billion market cap with headquarters in one of the fastest-growing economy in the world, but more importantly, was one of the less COVID impacted. Then this new equity story together with TCC will give us instant access to the world supply chains and major markets that were not within our reach till today, which are the Asian markets. You will remember that in any also market size or addressable market charts that we published since the very beginning since our IPO will always excluded China, Japan, Korea [ and Canada ] for obvious reasons. I mean if you don't have a credible partner there, it's unbelievable to change to develop projects in these areas. And then the access to the Asian market, and more importantly, the access to the world-leading supply chain in order to transform strategic procurement into something that can tap in the Asian market intensively is an unparalleled opportunity for us, with access, obviously, for our Industrial Solutions division to opportunities in high-potential, energy-intensive sectors that are the big industrial [ one of this ]. Then last point, a worldwide industrial expansion in sustainability. They already invested in Europe. They invested more than EUR 1 billion in Europe. They made a high-profile joint venture with Veolia in Taiwan. They are one of the largest lithium-ion and the largest lithium-ion cell manufacturing in Taiwan,with EUR 350 million investments already planned and the battery manufacturing and R&D center in Canada. Then this bring us to a new identity with a clear mission, vision and values that I will not comment here, but I'm ready to take any question you may have in order to give more room to questions after this brief introduction. And it bring us to a new equity story, I'm on Page 14, where we really believe electricity will be our power and new horizons our destination. And really, the ambition of giving people energy to live sustainably, thanks to pure electric technologies, [ not as long ] but it's something that we're really believing. Then that's the reason why we are taking our inspiration from Noah. In the story of the Genesis and the deluge, you will remember that Noah was essentially the patriarch who, because of his blameless piety, was chosen by God to perpetuate the human race. This was our inspiration. Certainly, a Catholic one, which is, in a sense, our heritage, but more importantly, this essentially renewed humanity concept from a bad world behind us, which is represented in our inspiration by polluting environment and the polluting world. And the new direction established by the patriarch is certainly our aspiration and our inspiration in the context of the new equity story. And that's the reason why I will share with you a brief video to present our new brand identity. [Presentation]

And this is our new brand, ladies and gentlemen, our new identity that we found together with TCC and that we really deem would be the most appropriate one to represent what we want to do. This is NHOA essentially outlining the enlightened and sustainable future. We really see in front of our very eyes. And recalling Noah, as I said, is the founder of the renewed humanity with a clear underline to represent the horizon and also the omega, which is symbolizing our heritage then in the Ohm's law electrical resistance, but which, at the same time, inspires also raising sun, so essentially, the dawn on a new era. And then you see here, we -- essentially, some communication material that we -- you will see shortly in the communication campaign we are planning, that will be obviously launched effective at closing of the transaction that we [ expect ] to be in the next 3 to 4 months of tender, outlining the clear messages and the vision we have behind this brand and together with our new partner, TCC. So essentially, that's all for the -- today's presentation. And I thank you all for your patience and for your attention. And I would like now to turn the line back to Kiara for the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] It seems that we have no questions for the moment. Okay. Everyone, this first question comes from Fabrice Theveneau, Lyxor.

Yes. Can you hear me?

We can hear you, Fabrice.

Yes. My -- so well done. Thank you for the -- organizing the change of ownership smoothly. I had a question on synergies. Do you have an estimate of -- do you think you are losing something because of the exit from the ENGIE perimeter? I guess you have signed quite a few contracts. So they're probably, of course, gone. And did you have any estimate of the impacts you could have with your new partner? Because -- since so far, you have not addressed the Asian market a lot. So I guess there is a lot of new opportunities. You have any idea there? And the second question relates to the JV with Stellantis. I guess you have had more time for more discussions. Could you tell us when you think you will see a clear impact on your revenue and then this new business will become visible? The last one is if you could give us any update on the hydrogen plant. Because as you explained in the previous presentations, you have a lot of skill in this area which you could not fully utilize with ENGIE. And since now, you're in a position to grow this business again. Could you give us a bit more info there?

All right. Thank you, Fabrice, for your question. I will introduce the 3 question you made and address them in the right order and then leaving the floor to Giuseppe to comment more on synergies we clearly see in the Asia market. Not in terms of figures because the short answer to your question is no. I mean we have not -- certainly, it has been done by TCC, but we have no visibility of figures in terms of synergies that can be created with TCC. And frankly speaking, from our perspective, would be we don't look at synergy. We simply look at boosting our potential together with our new partner. But the short answer to your question is unbelievable. I mean the level of synergies you can deploy with one company based in Asia, more precisely in Taiwan, which is the #1 company listed 50 years ago, the corporate capital of which is represented by a free float and institutional investors. They are really a public company. I mean the largest shareholder they have is about 5%. Giving us access to global supply chain into the Asian markets, the level of synergies you can imagine is really unbelievable. Then I'll leave to Giuseppe more color on that. Let me just take the last 2 questions you made. So the JV, we still have this [ up ] in terms of revenues. I don't have the answer. I mean we have not given a clear guidance in this respect, Fabrice. There is a reason why. I mean the level of volatility we should have to managing in terms of guidance to the market is not in line with the industrial focus we are putting. But I can tell you that a few days ago, Carlos Tavares during our official presentation declared officially that 98% of the whole Stellantis fleet will be by 2025 electrified. They expect, as a Stellantis Group, 37%, if I'm not wrong, of sales globally made by EVs. And for EVs, the typical [indiscernible]. And then by 2030, more than 70% or 80%. Okay. So I cannot tell you precisely when the JV would start collecting revenues, but it's certainly after closing that will occur potentially this week. But how much? We will see. What I can tell you is that we are not worried at all about sales and revenues in this business. We are entirely focused on execution right now. We are increasing our production. We have increased our production from 500 Volvos per week to essentially 2,000, and we are planning to increase more and more and more. So launching new products, launching the subscriptions we referred to several times, so launching the joint venture in the next 1 to 2 weeks, that's our focus. Then I can understand the frustration of our investors to not have a clear guidance in this sense. But as far as you all believe in the equity story of electric mobility and only believing to the declarations made by the CEOs of the major carmaker all over the world, certainly, volumes, revenues, in this business, with a partnership of that magnitude are something that is already secured. Then on the hydrogen part, again, that's an opportunity because for obvious group analysis decisions, we decided to shut down a portion of our hydrogen business, which was essentially the manufacturing one but not the system integration one. But being out of the ENGIE Group represents an unparalleled opportunity to address the strategy that we already [ had ] for the hydrogen development since the very beginning after the announcement of the ENGIE disposal plan. And we really believe that hydrogen can represent one of the technologies that we are leveraging on in order to design, plan, execute and eventually deliver systems and clean power solutions to our customers. Then Giuseppe, I hand over to you for more color on potential synergies you have in mind and how you see the integration and the strategy in the Asia market together with TCC.

Thank you, Carlalberto. Good morning, everybody. So the first point that I would like to address is the relationship with ENGIE. So in the question, you mentioned to the potential loss of contracts. Of course, that is not the case. So from the very beginning, when in September, ENGIE announced the strategic consideration around its ownership in EPS, a cornerstone was that the secured contracts portfolio would be made secured. I can add more. So I'm talking about, of course, the U.S. market. I'm talking about the fast reserve contracts. But over the last couple of months, we have been continuing to sign contracts with ENGIE, and everybody knows that the disposal was imminent. So in a nutshell, we gave ENGIE everything we could over the last 2 years. But we also took everything we could. So the step change in the volumes of the contracts that we could achieve is there and is something -- it is an achieved result. So we [ underline ] you that we could do 10 megawatts. We are leaving ENGIE then we can do 200, 300 megawatts at a time. And this is substantiated by a secured contract portfolio. So we are not losing our contracts with ENGIE. But more, we are not even losing our intimacy with ENGIE. We are not losing our strategic relationship with ENGIE's business unit. Let me tell you even more. The person that is taking over my place in running the strategy and business development joined from ENGIE less than a year ago. She gained our trust, and we gave her trust. And she believed in the story to the point that she is remaining with us in this new adventure. And preserving the commercial value, the strategic value, the relationship with ENGIE, sits very high in the list of our priorities starting from today. We will build on what we have done with ENGIE. We will not lose anything of the value that is being created. And this is to address the first introductory part of your question. Then what is TCC taking to us? First, it's removing the 2 limitations that we were now facing as being part of ENGIE. The first one is the perceived conflict of interest that other energy companies, in particular, European utilities, would perceive in contracting with EPS. So we are being part until now of the ENGIE Group. As you may remember, in 2018, when we joined ENGIE, we lost Enel as a client. There is no reason why we can now restart working with Enel, with Electricite de France, with Iberdrola, with Energias de Portugal, with [ Orsted ], you name them. So now we are an independent energy storage supplier with a global mission. So the vision is to bring 1 of the 5 global energy storage system integrators in this market. The second limitation that being part of TCC removes is that ENGIE is not a contractor in its [ soul ] in this industrial mission. Therefore, for us, taking large EPC exposure with non-ENGIE entities [indiscernible] was something that from a risk management perspective was not [indiscernible]. TCC is an industrial company. And by the way, they have an EPC contracting business in other sectors. So they are familiar with EPC business model. And this is something which is extremely valuable for us, supported by the financial backing that TCC has already promised and committed to provide to us. Strictly from an industrial perspective, As Carlalberto mentioned, we were really weak in the Asia Pacific region. If you look at our portfolio of contracts both in projects in operation and contracts secured, there are a few relatively small microgrid systems, a couple of larger ones, but essentially, it clearly came second after the Americas and Europe. Now we are overcoming that. So we are entering the Asian market. Taiwan itself is a 250-terawatt hour market, mostly coal-fired as of today. So it is as big as Australia. And people that follow the energy storage market know how large Australia is. So it's a market very similar to Australia in terms of size and in terms of generation needs. And I'm talking Taiwan itself. Then, of course, we have Southeast Asia and possibly the large economies in Northern Asia. But even Taiwan itself, it's a step change in our Asian presence. Second is access to supply chain. I'm not talking about batteries. Our battery procurement strategy will not change even though TCC has a presence. It's a credible player in consumer electronics batteries. But our battery procurement strategy will not change. We will continue working with Samsung. We will continue working with the other strategic partners we have in battery procurement. But I'm talking, for example, about power electronics. You all know what kind of challenge and [indiscernible]in securing chips, one. Now Taiwan is the largest chip manufacturer globally. We are a power electronic company in terms of intellectual property, so access to the Taiwanese industrial [ life ] is something that is a momentous change in our -- in the robustness of our supply chain. This is in a nutshell. So we are not losing anything, and we are gaining access to the largest engine of growth in the global economy. We are getting the best of both world. This is in a nutshell the story from an industrial perspective. Thank you.

[ Pierre Shang ].

[ Pierre Shang ] speaking from [ Tavil Finance ]. Just 2 quick points. So while ENGIE took 60% of your capital a few years ago, so we had -- afterward, we had some movement in the perimeter of ENGIE EPS, just activities going to the ENGIE perimeter. And just my question is, could we expect this kind of movement with TCC over the next few quarters or years? This is my first point. And second point, could you comment maybe what could you say about the production price?

Thank you very much for your question. And activities, let me handle very shortly. I mean activities in the ENGIE perimeter. I mean no EPS activity has been ever transferred to ENGIE. Different story for hydrogen. I can comment later on. But you will easily imagine that ENGIE already had its own eMobility changes within the group, which was EVBox. And then notwithstanding this fact, we have been able to develop with FCA and then with Stellantis business. You will remember the easyWallbox, the vehicle-to-grid projects and then eventually the joint venture. So not only no activity has been ever transferred to ENGIE, but more importantly, ENGIE has always given to us the possibility to do businesses in which potentially they were not particularly happy. And I'm not saying that they were not because they gave us the opportunity to do it. I'm just saying that from a group strategy perspective, nobody would have been shocked to see preventing EPS to do business in a sector which is a potential in conflict with another group company. But this happened. And this happened because [ then ] ENGIE has always built -- given to this company the freedom to do what we thought was in the interest of the company as a management team and on our stakeholders and all shareholders, obviously, including minorities. Then another story is implementing synergies and optimizing processes, okay? So also, the decision on shutting down the hydrogen manufacturing was an event keeping alive the hydrogen system integration arm of this company was not based on a pure, let me say, a group decision but was solidly grounded. You can believe me. Look into figures. So this was in the interest of the company. Then obviously, being part of a group of that size, also the management has to take decision in the order of maximization of the value of our shareholders. And therefore, there is an influence of the group on the overall EPS strategy. So don't take me wrong. Obviously, there was a positive and constructive influence of the group that has resulted into decision that potentially would have been different in an independent different play. But this was -- let me say that the rest [indiscernible] I would like to make. But no activity has ever been transferred to ENGIE. All the activities, all the intellectual property remained within EPS. And then in the context of TCC, I will not be surprised that the level of independence that we may have as a management team will be higher. And therefore, certainly, the level of influence irrespective of the perception that our investors may have of the mother company would certainly be different with TCC. And we are really supportive of the interaction we will have with our new majority shareholder. On the transaction price, I will obviously not comment, first of all, because I'm a CEO and not an investor, so I leave it to you. But what I can tell you is that, certainly -- I already commented in terms of enterprise value. If you look at not the enterprise value but to the share price perspective, certainly, it's possible that they launched the tender offer, and therefore, they acquired EPS 3 years ago, 9.5. This transaction is realized about 17.10. So this represents -- and this is factual, over 30% on the last 12 months weighted average price of our shares, which is slightly above EUR 12. That's over 60% increased compared to the so-called unaffected share price. So the -- before the strategic review announcement made by ENGIE, and this is 80% plus -- over 80% higher than the acquisition of price announced by ENGIE in 2018. So certainly, we are not disappointed. From the enterprise value perspective, it's 2.5, 2.4x the enterprise value at which the transaction was realized. So as a management team, we recognized that also from the financial market perspective, we have created value. So question is -- and again, I would not comment, is that the right value? I don't know. What I can tell you is that there is a board. There is an ad hoc committee already appointed by the board. Just yesterday, we had a board in which I have been appointed in this committee together with 2 other -- 2 independent board members. So essentially, board representatives with -- falling within the [ independent ] criteria. The Chairman would be Romualdo Cirillo who is currently the Chief Financial Officer of Camfin, the holding company of Pirelli, and formerly a large investment banker, [indiscernible] so great experience in M&A, certainly more experienced than myself. And the other board member in this committee is Luigi Michi who was formerly Vice President in Enel and Head of Strategy and Development and Networking in Terna. So there is a committee. And then there is myself as a sort of historical heritage and memory of the company for obvious reasons. So this board committee, the committee appointed by the Board. We will be assisted by the [ Lazard ]. We will appoint an independent firm according to the [ IMF ] regulation to issue a fairness opinion. And we will provide the [ EPA ] committee an opinion to the Board. And then, eventually, the Board will communicate to the market our comments to the transaction in the context of the tender offer that will be launched, and that will be monitored. So it's not up to me to comment on the transaction price. What I can tell you is that, certainly, if you look to valuations around in the market, and I prefer to not even mention those companies, again, I will not be surprised that many of our investors saying that we are extremely undervalued as of today of the current stock price, so irrespective of the transaction price. Today, our stock is suspended for obvious reasons. We will start trading tomorrow. We will see how the market will react. But again, we have 2 options. The stock price might align to the offer price, slightly below. And we are starting in our MD&A courses and manuals, or as happened 3 years ago, the stock price will continue to trade at higher levels, like I said, 3 years ago with ENGIE, and representing the fact that our investors are willing to stay and to support the equity story of the company going forward. So I don't know. We will see. But again, if several of our investors think that we are currently undervalued, again, I would not be surprised.

I have 2 recent questions. I will read them out loud. The first one is from [ Paul Manigo ]. "Hello, what are the potential loss of contracts you may have win with ENGIE versus the potential gain of contracts with TCC? Overall, do you confirm your guidance? Or do you think your guidance could be upgraded with this partner? What are the biggest expected synergies battery procurement?"

Okay. Thank you very much, [ Paul ], for this question and, Kiara, for your reading. Long list of questions. Let me address them in the right order and then handing over to Giuseppe specifically for more color. Then on potential loss of contractor, I think this point has already been addressed by Giuseppe. We expect no loss of contract. It's also public in the ENGIE press release and not only in the EPS press release that we will continue to treat ENGIE and ENGIE will continue to consider EPS as a partner. And therefore, our commercial [ tonnage ] also for future development is confirmed, and that's public. Then we do not expect any loss of contracts. And more importantly, we expect -- we reciprocally expect to continue to develop business together in the context of a partnership that has already been confirmed not only by EPS but also by ENGIE. But overall, do you confirm your guidance? Yes, we do. The other question was, do you think your guidance could be upgraded with this partner? Certainly, we see the potential. Let's see what will happen. And please a bit of patience, giving us time to work with TCC with which we have very limited interactions for obvious M&A and regulation reasons. So we will start right after this call, working around the clock with them to define the integration plan, synergies, the boosting of our business, the new plan. And then the last point we will address is the potential and range of our guidance. So we will keep you posted. But we see the potential. We clearly see the potential. You will remember that we also see the potential in -- with -- already with the joint venture with Stellantis, right? So we see the potential for at least a couple of big reasons. Then what are the biggest expected synergies? I think this point has already been addressed by Giuseppe. Then I give to him maybe more details on that and on battery procurement. Then Giuseppe, the floor is yours.

I'll only repeat what I said a few minutes ago. So from a procurement perspective, we expect synergy more on our core technology. So meaning components that we purchased to incorporate in our power electronics because Taiwan is a global leader for power electronics components. From a battery perspective, we are not envisaging any change in our procurement strategy. Given the existing relationships with blue-chip suppliers, we don't -- we have gone a long way, and we do not see any reason to adopt the battery procurement strategy. And on this, we are absolutely firm. From a revenue perspective, again, very conservatively. I just mentioned Taiwan. Taiwan is as large as Australia as an electricity market, same generation needs, same needs for flexibility. Think just of this. It is in itself can be a pillar to support the full economics of EPS for the foreseeable future. But of course, then it's only [ coming ] on top of what we already have across the other geographies. Carlalberto, over to you.

Thank you, Giuseppe. Kiara, is there any further question?

Yes, sir. We have a question from [ Renu Seller ]. I will read it out loud. "Is there going to be a buyback of [indiscernible] minorities? Will production be transferred to Taiwan? Why was not a solution [ GTT ] EPS developed inside ENGIE?"

Three very interesting questions. So is there going to be a buyback of minorities? I mean there will be a mandatory tender offer. Therefore, all minorities that are willing to sell their shares, and this is by law. So that's an automatic consequence of buying more than 30%, so they bought 60%. Therefore, any minority investor that will be willing to sell its shares at EUR 17.10 per share will have the opportunity during the offer period to do it. Okay? Then if question is, is it going to be squeezed out and, therefore, my next minority investors might be forced to sell their shares at that price, I don't know. What I can tell you is that with the interaction we had with TCC, they never expressed an intention in this sense. I really think they are agnostic from this perspective. So again, this will all depend on the reaction on the markets. The full buyback, take it private, the fact of the squeeze-out will really depend on you, dear investors, generally speaking. So certainly, there is no clear predefined intention to do it. This is at least what I personally understood from our new majority shareholder. Then production will be transferred to Taiwan, straight short answer. As far, I will remain in the company -- in this company, this is not going to happen and this will never happen. We have to be extremely clear in respect to this point. When we talk about synergies, when we talk about leveraging on world-class supply chain, we are talking about optimizing our procurement strategy. We are talking about maximizing synergies with a supply chain we never had really access to or at least with that level of credibility and with that magnitude, which is a tremendous opportunity for us. But please do not confuse these concepts with a full block transfer of our production in Taiwan. This is not going to happen under my leadership, period. Then was that a solution [ GTT ] and EPS develop inside the ENGIE, yes, certainly, this was an option. But eventually, ENGIE decided not to do it. And I do not have the ambition to run the strategy and the leadership of a company of that size. This is not my business. This is not something which I would succeed. So I leave the strategy of ENGIE to [ Katrina Kangaring ], which I have a strong support -- where I am a strong supporter. And certainly, there is a reason why they decided to not opt for this solution, which, by the way, sounds quite clear to me and also I think to the market because there is a sort of relation that they have declared to the markets publicly, group simplification. And certainly, in the context of a group of that size and in the context of a clear and important simplification strategy, a project of managing or developing 2 different entities that are different in terms of industrial footprint, that are different in terms of culture, that are different in terms of historical heritage was certainly not an obvious choice. Therefore, I see a lot of consistency in the ENGIE strategy considering what we have declared to the market and the new strategy that they have announced.