Nimbus Group AB (Publ) (BOAT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Nimbus audio call for the teleconference Q4 2021. [Operator Instructions] Today, I'm pleased to present CEO, Jan-Erik Lindstrom; and CFO, Rasmus Alvemyr. Guys, please begin.

Okay. Thank you, and thank you for listening in. Some highlights then from the fourth quarter 2021. And can I have them, please, Page 3. We had a good fourth quarter. The fourth quarter and the first quarter in our world is quite weak quarters. But still then, we improved quite a lot from last year. And we had the sales increase then by 65%, reaching SEK 271 million. We had an EBITA amounted to SEK 5.6 million compared then to SEK 0.5 million. So it's a good step. The EBITA margin up to 2.1% compared then to 0.3%. So of course, we're happy with that. The order book is now actually exceeded SEK 1 billion, so it's SEK 1.1 billion. And if we compare them to the same period -- if we compare to the quarter 3 this year, that was EUR960 million. So it's a good increase. After a quarter, we had some interesting things. The acquisition then of Herholdt Andersen actually finalized last week, very interesting. It is, as we have said before, it's an interesting boating districts, a big boating district in Norway, where we actually was not present on that side of the Oslofjord, but I will come back to that. We also had a couple of end customers sold boats in new locations, which makes us happy. And the locations are then in Asia and Canada. And I think you remember that we had a press release during the autumn that we had got a couple of new dealers on board in that area of the world. If we then switch Page to 4, a little bit about full year 2021. As we say there, we had a strong demand, and we also had a couple of acquisitions. Full year then, the sales increased by 57%. So we're up to SEK 1.4 billion. This is then affected, I should say, and Rasmus will talk more about that, but we have then switched to IFRS. And you can see the next line there that it's affected the net sales SEK 99 million. So actually then, if you use the Swedish GAAP as we did before, we reached our target to SEK 1.5 billion, and we actually exceeded it a little bit. Full year then, EBITA amounted to SEK 166.4 million and that is compared onto SEK 63.3 million. So it's a big step. We're happy for that. The EBITA margin up to 11.4% compared them to 6.8%. And if we then compare to last year, the order book we then, as I said before, SEK 1.1 billion today, we had SEK 708 million last year. During the year, we have increased our production capacity quite significantly, and we have to put that. Of course, then partly affected by supply chain disruptions, as we say here, and actually and still ongoing. And that is probably something we need to work with continuously. And most probably the first half of this year, at least, we will have more or less the same situation. The new dealers, I talked about before, contracted in North America and Asia and also we bought the Marine Store in Stockholm at that time and still today, the biggest and successful deal in Sweden. If we then switch page, and then a little reminder for you, we definitely know our history, so to say. Nimbus Group founded in 1968. So it is a quite old company today. We have been out there for many years now. We have a very long history of international trade, more or less immediately. I think it was around 1970, we started to export our products then. We have our true house of brands and what we mean with true house of brands is that we like to keep -- we like to buy the really good companies. And if you buy a good company, you don't necessarily need to change that much in the company. And we like to keep the culture, the brand DNA as it is because that was the reason, so to say that we bought it. So it's a true house of brands, important to understand. All these brands are also Scandinavian, and they are well known. If you look at the brand awareness, we score very high on that one. In February '21, we were listed on Nasdaq. In May we bought Marine Store, as I said before. And at the beginning now of this year, in February, last week, actually, we bought also Herholdt Andersen. And again, we like to be present in important boating districts, and it's about the brand positioning. We want to own the brand positioning in this big boat industry. If we look a little bit more about -- on the acquisition of Herholdt Andersen, and you can actually more or less say, Norway because it is about Norway. It's not only Herholdt Andersen. Herholdt Andersen is a very good dealer, successful. They have quite a lot of after sales market, and we like that because we want to improve our revenue streams on that side. But it's also a history of -- we look up on Norway as our home market, more or less comparable, actually at Sweden. And what we have seen in the recent years is that we haven't had enough focus on Norway, and that is what we want to change now. So for this year, we will focus more on Norway and try them to improve, I can actually say. And if we look at the picture here, Tonsberg located at the left, but in the middle, and you have the Oslofjord and you can more or less look upon it as a triangle. So we want to be present in Oslo, and we are present with a very good dealer. Now we are present in Tonsberg and since before, we're also present on the west side of the -- sorry, east side of the Oslofjord. So this is a very important boating district in Norway. If we then switch Page to 7. Short about our production and actually our product development then. We still have our 4 own factories then 2 in Sweden, 2 in Finland. We also have a couple of outsourced ones, both then in Sweden and Finland, but then also in Poland. And in Poland, we actually have our biggest unit located in Ostroda. Today, we are 400 employees or roughly 400 employees, but you can also add to that 200 -- roughly 200 external boat builders, blue collar that is working then in these outsourced units only with the Nimbus products. We have talked before a lot about the scalable and of course, outsourcing is a big part of that, and we are talking then about how much we can reduce costs. It's about scaling up and scaling down, reduce costs, but also then -- has had the ability then to also scale up. I will not talk that much about the modularity today and the things that we do in production to keep up the speed. But what's interesting from the product development point is that we have every year, we have a couple of new launches. But this year, we will have a couple of strategic ones that will be very nice to follow them, of course. If we then switch Page to #8, I was talking about the record high order book. At the top there, we say that since not all orders can be confirmed due to capacity restraints, there is a substantial amount of nonconfirmed orders on top of the order book and that is true, of course. And what we do mean with this is that if we -- let's say that we have 100% capacity to build boats, we don't dare to use this 100%. We cannot confirm boats in that. You can say we have roughly 80%, 85% is what we then confirm on today. And that is due to the capacity -- or the problems that we have then in the supply chain. I should not say problems that there's a lot of replanning we need all the time to be very present when we produce our boats. It was the same situation in 2020 as we had 2021. And as I said before, we will still have to look on that for the -- at least the first half of this year. Fourth quarter order book increased 19% and the prepayment amounted to 17% of the order book value. And we have communicated before that we would like to have the target is 20%. But since we now see that the order book will be longer and longer, it's actually a quite challenging target. But still, we keep it, where we want to have 20% of the order book as a prepayment. If we then switch to Page #9, a short reminder then from the idea of why invest in Nimbus. We have -- we see and we have a strong underlying market, and we have also done several fundamental drivers. The underlying market, we have own trend, way before the pandemic that is upwards, and we see that the world market is increasing and the forecast asset will still increase on a decent level, so to say. The overall wealth is increasing. We actually have 2.5x more money to spend pockets if you compare to year 2000. We have an outdoor -- ongoing outdoor trend that also started before the pandemic, but of course, the pandemic accelerated this trend. But we also then we work a lot, as I say, and we need our recreational time. And today, we also have money to spend on that one. And we do and there's several investigations around this that we actually use for the outdoor purpose already recreational purpose. We have a true house of brands with our distinctive brand portfolio. We like to say that we have an attractive position in the value chain where we then can improve our dealership or we can densify. We have our aftermarket services where we like to grow. We are the product owner and the product owner, as I say, should at least have double-digit revenue streams. We are not there with the journey, but we improve all the time. We have our asset light and flexible and flexible is the key word, so to say, the production platform with outsourced production, but also then, of course, our boat building process that starts already from the drawing board, so to say, when we develop our new boats. And we are an experienced management team, and we also then -- I should say, besides that, we also see a lot of growth opportunities, for example, then of course, North America, Asia, as we've talked about before today. But also the fact that this industry we work in is very fragmented. So it's a lot of opportunities also to consolidate and that is both vertical and horizontally. And with that I actually then leave the word to you, Rasmus.

Thank you, Jan-Erik. And then we flip to Page #10. When summarizing '21, we can see that there's been a strong sales improvement on all our markets, strongest development is seen in North America with a growth of 155% compared with last year. But also Europe and Nordics performed well with increases of about 35% to 40%. Sweden represents the strongest growth in terms of value with about SEK 300 million, of which SEK 195 million comes from the Marine Store acquisition. If we flip page, please. Overall, the year-to-date sales increased by 57% compared to last year and ended up in SEK 1,455 million. And please be aware of that those figures now are in accordance with IFRS. And as you can see on the right-hand chart, most of the sales in the fourth quarter is related to external sales. And this is because of the seasonality with fewer end customer sold boats at our own dealers this time of year. For full year '21, we see a 50-50 split in between those. Flip the page, please. The EBITA ends up in SEK 166 million for '21, which is an increase by 164% compared to last year. The EBITA margin has increased from 6.8% to 11.4% in accordance with IFRS. The increased margins come from both improved gross margins by 2.4 percentage points and from scale advantages in OpEx, representing 2.7 percentage points in relation to the net sales. Worth remind is that Marine Store only has sold external brands during '21, which means that it has not contributed with any double margin sales. Next page, please. This and the following slide is intended to illustrate how the major IFRS transition effect has affected the figures in '21 compared with previous accounting principles. Firstly, I'll comment a, the net sales has been reduced by SEK 99 million. And this is an effect coming from traded Axopar Boats and engines at both manufacturer level. This has been a selling through revenue stream before with low margins. Going forward, those revenues and costs will be netted. The change does not affect the net result itself, but only the margins. And the second comment, b, leases are no longer booked under the OpEx. Instead, all leases like rentals and cars are booked as assets with the depreciation and the finance cost in the P&L. So consequently, the EBITDA margin is improved from this effect from 11.9% to 14%. The EBITDA figure ends up on the same level as before and after IFRS, which is then SEK 166 million, as we mentioned before. But the EBITDA margin has improved from 10.7% to 11.4% because of the lower net sales. Flip page, please. In the balance sheet, we see that it has expanded in total by SEK 106 million, and the major effect comes from lease assets and liabilities and from floor plan financing towards our dealers. So consequently, the solidity has dropped a bit from -- by 3.5 percentage points because of this IFRS transition and now amounts to 49%. Flip page, please. And we come to net working capital. And we see that it has increased in the quarter to SEK 113 million without taking into account the lease debt from IFRS now. Net working capital in relation to LTM sales is 7.8%, which is a good figure for the season and as the stock levels are increasing this time of year. When comparing Q4 '21 with the same period last year's levels, we see that it has been a steady decrease, which is very positive since the business also has expanded over those periods. Next page, please. This is to remind about our financial targets and compare with our actual figures. First, we say that we should have an organic growth of plus 10% over a business cycle, including acquisitions of dealers, but not brands. For '21, the organic growth was 59%. The EBITA margin should reach 10% in the medium term. For '21, the actual figure was 11.4%. And about the capital structure, we say that we should have no senior debt except for real estate-related debt. And today, we only have real estate-related debt together with [indiscernible], so that's what we have. And we also have a dividend policy saying that we should pay out up to 30% of the net earnings, taking into account the financial position, cash flow and growth opportunities. And the Board has proposed a dividend of SEK 1.50 per share, which is 22% of the net result. So that's all for me. And now I hand over to Jan-Erik again.

Thank you. So then we are on Page 17, so to say, summing up then and what will we do then in the future. We continue to deliver on our targets. I think it's fair to say that the year 2021 is more or less a proof of that. But what we're doing then is that we continue then to develop our current offering and our organization, of course. I've talked about it before, expand and densify the dealership, both then in densify itself, but also then the strategic locations by ourselves then. And this Herholdt Andersen as we have talked about, is a good example. We also like them to improve the aftermarket offering and presence, and this is really then important. And then we're talking about both the boatbuilder and the dealership level. So it's 2 revenue streams that ends up in one and, of course, important. And that is a journey that we are on it. Increase the presence then in North America, and we have done well so far, but the same story there, we need to densify a little bit more, and we need more locations to cover North America. And that is also a journey, of course, that we are on it. And then merger and acquisitions, as I said before, buy the really good ones that is located in -- if it's a dealership in interest in boat industries, but also then, of course, it could be in the future a brand that we need to be interesting for the dealer in that certain district. So this is what we're working with continuously, and we will continue to do that. And with that, I'm finished for today, and I'll leave then the word to Gunilla.

And we open up for questions. I think we have both Gustav and Victor with us. And I also have a few questions that are coming to my e-mail. So I'll put my questions last. So please, Gustav.

Gustav, please go ahead.

Mr. Gustav from Carnegie. I have a few questions on the quarter, please. And starting off with the order book for sort of going out from 2021, it's reached a level of SEK 1.1 billion. And it feels like underlying demand trends continue to be very strong. I mean, could you elaborate sort of on the capacity expansion that you've done during '21? You mentioned sort of production line in Finland, small expansion projects in Sweden and some outsourcing as well. Would you be able to sort of quantify how much you've done so far in 2021 relative to 2020?

I should start to say that during now the pandemic and actually, especially the fourth wave, we had a presence of roughly 75% of the workers. The rest of them was either then sick, but that was a small part and the other part was then in this quarantine because it's a similar rules that we have in Sweden, Poland and Finland, that differs slightly, but it's the same rules. So meaning then that we haven't used all of the capacity during the year that is important to remember for next year. So there you have something. Then if you look some kind of index 100 when we start the year '21, we have doubled the capacity on our major brands in Poland. And we are -- I should not say maybe double, but we have increased it quite a lot also on the other models in the same brand. I don't know we actually, Gustav, if I'm allowed to -- because that is a kind of forecasting. But we started a brand-new factory in Poland during the early 2021. And of course, we had these problems as we explained with sick leaves, quite high levels of sick leaves. But that has also been a ramp-up during at least, you can say, 6 months. And today, it's up and running, it is running well. And of course, that will add a lot of capacity then for us coming in now to 2022, everything the same, so to say. Then in Finland, it's more about adding people, and we have added at least more than 20%. And you can say then that we have kept the same level as we had before, before the pandemic in Finland. But now we will then see this increase instead during 2022. So it's a lot of math and I think I should not give you the numbers, so to say. I'm not sure about that, and I'm sorry for that, but...

No worries. That's clear enough. Let's give some more sort of color on that. Fair take. And just sort of you see sales up 156% in North America. Could you elaborate sort of what sort of market growth are you seeing in North America? And sort of what does the development in terms of sold boats per dealer been relative to your expectations? So 2 questions there on North America.

And if you look at the big picture, the world market, so to say, U.S. or we should say to begin with North America then, the North American market is not growing that much as, for example, European and the Nordic countries. But it is by far the biggest market. It's more or less half of the world market. So even a smaller increase is a lot of boats. But what is happening there is that when we're increasing the capacity, we are able then to provide our dealers because they want to have more boats. But as we say in the report, that the capacity restraints has been delinquent for us for the expansion. It's tough, of course, for us to say, okay, how many boats can we then sell there because the capacity, again, will be delinquent. But since we have increased a bigger amount of our boats is actually then going to North America. And that was one of the purposes that we did is quite big then increasing capacity. And the dealers then it doesn't -- the dealership I said that before, but the dealership in North America doesn't work the same way as it do in Europe, for example, then because to begin with, they have a lot of locations. So if you get one dealer onboard, so to say, they can have anything between maybe 5 up to 15 locations. So one dealer then could be a lot of locations. And typically, they want to have stock, and that is a big difference. In Europe, we have stocks, but that is more demonstration boats and maybe one or something like that. But in U.S., they want to have stock because that's their business model, so to say. And we are far from that point where we actually can say that we have stock. It's actually the opposite. We don't have any stock so far. So we're still chasing the targets, so to say. I don't know if that's covering your 2 questions. Maybe you can add.

Yes, that's good.

Maybe to remind, you can also remind that today, we only sell Nimbus brand. Going forward, more brands will be offered. So this is important also to keep in mind that it's only the Nimbus brand today that we offer in U.S.

Yes. That was actually my follow-up question. So you're looking at sort of with the Nimbus brand probably a higher price point in terms of the European price range, but sort of more mid-market in the U.S., I mean sort of where -- if you're introducing new brands, what -- sort of on what point on the price scale are you seeing the best opportunities to add?

Of course, we should not ship smaller boats. In the future, you can look up on some kind of cooperation maybe to produce actually then in U.S., for example, the smaller boats, but then it makes sense, so to say. But since the freight is quite expensive at least, we get paid for it, but it's quite expensive, it needs to be the bigger boats. So the next one to follow Nimbus, Alukin is actually then starting. That is to say, big enough money in the boat. And then, of course, we have Aquador where we're working now actually then, as I say, most of the things starts at the drawing table. And we're working with Aquador to add that one then in the, you can say, near future, but certainly not during 2022 because we don't have the capacity, but that will follow.

Perfect. And as the final question here on capital allocation. You proposed a dividend here at SEK 1.50 per share. You've done 2 acquisitions already during 2021 with Marine Store Holding and Herholdt Andersen. I mean if you look ahead, do you feel that sort of your cash generation, et cetera, could support more M&A going forward? Or sort of should we expect slightly lower M&A pace in the near term? Sort of what are you thinking in terms of capital allocation because you're seeing sort of strong growth and have added M&A as well?

We definitely see acquisitions as an alternative also for future. So we have said that acquisition is part of our strategy. So this dividend is not in that way, limitizing the acquisitions.

The next question is from Victor Hansen, Nordea.

A couple of questions from my side. So firstly, the consumer has lately been getting hit by various macroeconomic factors, which should negatively affect the discretionary consumer spending. And I'm wondering if you've seen any change in behavior from your potential clients yet and also as we are 2/3 into Q1 already. To give an example, you have the high energy prices this winter in Sweden.

No, we haven't seen any signs like that. Of course, we're following it closely. But so far, actually nothing. I think that is more or less my personal view, but I think that the small boats, the budget segments may be hit by that because it's -- even if it's smaller money, it's the money relatively is bigger part of the budget, so to say, for the people. So -- but we haven't seen that so far. So let's see, but we're following it closely, of course, definitely.

All right. Great. That's interesting. I guess some sort of follow-up here. Do you see a risk for cancellations given the risks to the consumer here in the future? What are you -- what do you think?

Not in the order book we have in front of us at least. And again, that is also the reason that we have the rules because you need to pay this prepayment to -- first to get the productions lost and then secondly, a couple of weeks before we start to produce the boat or 8 to 10 weeks before, you need to pay the second installment. And that is one of the reasons to, so to say, slow this possible then process down a bit. Cancellations, that keeps -- it needs to be something really big, so to say. Of course, we are not vaccinated against that. But if you compare to what most of the people refers to is the Lehman Brothers during '08 to '09 there, that is not likely, so to say. So I think we should be very careful to talk about massive cancellations and things like that, it's not very likely. And we don't see any signs of that yet.

Today, we see that the more is very, very strong. And it's actually stronger than what we can support the market with in terms of products. So today, as Jan-Erik said, this is not an issue for us.

But -- and I may add there because it is interesting. And in a way, we also -- from our point of view, we are not, so to say, afraid of that the market balance out because since you can say in 2012, we have beaten the market and we're beating the market quite much. And of course, we have the momentum. We are doing something right. And we would, so to say, we are aiming to continue to do that. And by adding new locations, new markets, I think that for Nimbus' sake, it's not a problem if the market then will level out, so to say. On the contrary, I think you can say that we like it because it's cheaper to take market shares when, so to say, that the market slows down. And there is what we like that environment, so to say. We're waiting for that environment. So it's also important to understand that is what Nimbus is.

Sounds promising. And then my next question, I saw that Herholdt Andersen do not currently sell any of your brands. Could you talk about the potential you see here for sales and profitability?

And that's interesting because, of course, we didn't buy them because they are general dealers with the brands related to that, it was the location. We will certainly add our own brands, not all of them, of course, but suitable brands. But we will then also continue to work in this location together with Yamaha and a couple of their brands, of course. And you have a similar situation when we bought Marine Store. And actually, Marine Store, we haven't delivered any of our own brands still to Marine Store. And the strategy is the very same. We want to add our own brands to the business that seems everything we produce this on, so to say, we don't have the capacity to fill up with boats for them. So it's the same situation. And for 2022, we don't see that we can actually then maybe a few boats starting the journey, so to say, that it will not be that many deliveries to Herholdt Andersen during 2022 of our own brands.

All right. And then could you tell us anything about your M&A pipeline?

Sorry?

M&A pipeline.

Yes. Well, as we have said, we're continuously looking at good companies, both dealerships and brands, and that will continue. It's long processes. We will for sure buy something more, no doubt, but it's tough to say when because, for example, Herholdt Andersen, we have talked to, you can say, roughly a year, roughly a year. And there is a quick one, so to say, from a dealership perspective. You maybe do it quicker, but we haven't done that. Brands is possibly even longer. So it's a long process and where we are today in the industry. The possible acquisitions is getting expensive. So that's also a part we need to find, so to say, the good company, but also on a decent level, so to say. So it's impossible to say when, but we will, that's for sure and continue looking at -- it's a part of our strategy of course as I understand.

Yes. And then just a final question on my side. And I noticed that your total sales in the Nordics, including Sweden, is up roughly 15% year-on-year, while other Europe is down 20%. And I'm wondering if you could talk a bit how you prioritize your shipments given the limited production capacity and how this affects your profitability?

It's totally rough, it's totally to me, but let's see. To begin with, Europe, the pandemic, I should prefer a world without the pandemic, of course, but not only for itself, so to say, but it's also for a business. So Europe was closed during the pandemic. We don't, so to say, appreciate that in the Nordic countries because we saw another picture. Europe is going up again, so to say, and we have densified in Europe. Not that many locations, but still, we're adding locations. So that is looking very promising. And again, on the drawing table, for example, the Mediterranean area, we have been quite weak at the earlier stage. Now we're working to find the right dealers there and also then the right product for that purpose. So Europe is important for us, no doubt. If we look at the Nordic countries, well, the pandemic, of course, as I said, it accelerated this outdoor trend up here in the north. We also have both a couple of companies that have added to the big picture, so to say, in the Nordic countries and then maybe especially Sweden then. So it -- well, it's affected a more natural causes, so to say. But the pandemic from the sales point of view, you see that, of course, in especially Sweden, I should say that.

Yes, it's correct. And as we said before, I mean, we have the Marine Store, which we have not sell any of our own brands in that in that business yet. And this is, of course, also the cause of that we have not sufficient boats to deliver. So we have a higher potential, absolutely. So both in Sweden and also in the Nordics, absolutely.

Hopefully, you got your answer there. Otherwise, please.

Yes, could you talk a bit about -- that's a good answer, but maybe just a follow-up, how it affects the profitability when you sell in the Nordics contra Europe or the Mediterranean freight, et cetera?

Yes. In that sense, it doesn't affect very much because it's the buyer that pays the freight. But since we are quite strong in Sweden with our own dealers, this affects the group margin since we have this double margin effect on -- when selling through our own dealers. So this is what we mean because we say that if we sell a boat in Sweden, of course, it can be sold either in -- by our own dealers or it could be sold by external dealers. But still, the chance is higher that we got this double margin in Sweden, of course, than compared to the other markets because we are not represented there that much.

But it's also important to know that both the location that one is done from a strategic point of view. So we could sell more boats in Sweden, for example, than have an even higher margin, earning more money. But we cannot do that, of course. So it's important to allocate the boats from a strategic perspective for the future, so to say.

I have a few -- a couple of questions from the e-mail. And the first one is from Johan Dahl from Danske Bank Research. And he's wondering about order book risks. And his question is with this long extended order book, how do you manage pricing risks for raw material engines, et cetera? Is there a risk or an upside here on margins going forward?

Yes. Firstly, we have this prepayment system to secure the order stock, that's very important for us. So this gives us comfort in the order itself. But then we also have -- we have the target in that respect to pay up to 20% of the value of the book in a prepayment. So that's one thing. But then also, we have a possibility to adjust the price if the order book is longer than a certain period. So we can compensate for price changes in that way as part of the agreement with the dealers.

And then he is wondering to what extent this capacity restraints related to engine suppliers, i.e., out of your control? Can engine suppliers live up to your significant ramp-up of capacity on production on boats?

More or less, I can say that -- we should say that they are in the same situation as everyone else, of course. They have their challenges. So far, it has been good. We don't see any major disturbances from them. There can be late deliveries and things like that. But we have chose the 2 biggest. On the inboard side, we have Volvo Penta, and they are absolutely on track today. And on the outboard side, we have Brunswick and that's the world's biggest supplier of engines. And we are an exclusive OEM with Brunswick, so meaning that we only put Brunswick engines on our boats presently, meaning then also then, of course, that there is their interest to provide us with engines, of course, according to the agreement. So I should say that, so far, so good. But of course, they are late as everyone else, I was about to say not all of them, of course, but we have late deliveries. We had to replan as we have talked about before some of these problems and you can say, is related to engines, but not more than other things and so. It's a part of the work, so to say.

So we put very much effort in this question also that's important to mention that we follow this very, very closely from day to day.

Okay. And then Johan Dahl has the third question. You provided an organic sales growth figure for the full year. Can you provide a unit shipment figure to get a feel for how pricing mix developed in 2021?

We have not communicated the unit numbers before. So this is something that we maybe should evaluate and see if we should come back with. But so far, we have not communicated that figure. We are not measuring in that respect because it's a big difference then, of course, on a small budget, both and a big premium plus boat. We are talking about fleet delivered. We are talking about man-hours than for producing these things. But I can say, in general, and that is actually a trend also in the industry is that we are selling more relatively seen we're selling more bigger boats. That's for sure. So for example, the capacity increase in Poland is used for mainly boats above -- or you can say about 29 feet. And that is Nordic way to see it, it's quite big boat, not very big, but quite big boat. So that is a trend we can see in our deliveries.

And then there is another question from the e-mail from Daniel Anderson. He says hope all is well, and thanks for a good quarter. He has 2 questions. Could you give an estimation how the gross margin will develop during the next quarters as we've seen rising material costs since last year?

As Rasmus said before, then in our agreements with the dealers, we have the possibility to increase the prices. We try not to use that, of course, we want these leases, so to say, to have their predictable deals also. So we are working with it. And of course, we are talking a lot with the suppliers, we are quite a big player in our industry. So the cost avoidance is also then a part of this work that we do more frequently, so to say, today. So we don't have any fears that the gross margin will go down. Of course, for shorter periods of time, it could because of things happening and things like that. But it's nothing that we predict. The gross margin we see today is affected by the fact that we spent a lot of time in our processes, much more time than we usually do in a normal process, so to say. Because of the replanning because that boats have to stop and put aside waiting maybe for a part and then even again, that takes a lot of time. But on the parts side, so to say, that is quite stable actually. So it's more the delays that is costing us on the margin, not the part itself.

And you don't expect that to worse than during '22?

No, because what we actually see is that some of this -- we are putting these different things into categories. And some of the categories has actually gone down again now. So it's moving towards the own price levels. But then again, other ones is stable on a high level, but they are stable. So that's important. So that is the change, you can say, from the time.

That's good. And then there is the last question here from Daniel Anderson. How do you see competition from electric manufacturers such as X Shore?

Well, we like them. To begin, we will like competition, and we like them, so to say, a challenge the present model. We ourselves was actually before X Shore and we still are because 2015, we launched our very first 100% electric Nimbus Coupe. And you can still buy our coupes with electric engines. So we are quite used to that. But then what X Shore do is then that they put their whole picture into it, so to say. And well, they're doing good, and we like them to that. But we don't really see the competition from that perspective because we can deliver the very same product as they can, the same solution. And we also then have -- what they don't have is then our Bella Zero and that's the Zero concept we choose to use it in the brand Bella from the beginning. And that is the price point, and that is really important because there is a certain level where people actually can spend on going less. And that is important. That is something that we need to work with more with. And that is, of course, both for example, Candela is doing very well, excellent technical solutions, but the price point is important. And that's from that perspective, we are -- from the Nimbus Group is looking up on this question.

So thank you so much. I don't have more questions from the e-mail. Do you have any more from the telephone conference?

No, we haven't received any further questions by the telephone line.

Okay, then. Thank you so much for listening in. And just to remind you that our Q1 report will be on May 3. And we also -- we have an AGM in Gothenburg on May 18. So very welcome back. Thank you.