NTPC Limited (NTPC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning to all, and welcome to this session. This is the new world, that we are not able to really meet face-to-face, but we are able to really connect through this digital means, and we believe that we will be able to interact in the same kind of spirit what we had been doing earlier. So a warm welcome to each and every one. At present, you can observe that I'm speaking from my office, and everybody from the Board is connected. And I'm sure that there is only 97 that's present, but who are the participants, I'm not in a position to really check at present. But as we go along, I think there will be something -- I believe that most of the investors are connected, those who have invested and those who are having the interest. So first of all, let me start with appreciating the efforts of each and everyone in the NTPC plants to make sure that during this COVID time, we had been able to maintain the supply. And despite of all kind of problems during the lockdown period also, our team has strived hard so that each and every one of us are able to get power supply, which becomes much more important than the usual stuff. And the COVID time has really given the new meaning to the power and the power supply and the availability of the reliable supply. And apart from the first 3 months, means April, May, June, starting from July, let me share with all of you that we at NTPC are recording almost 12.3%, 12.4% increase in the dispatch as compared to last year. This includes the THDC and NEEPCO, what we acquired last year. But even if you take out those contribution, we are close to 10% increase as compared to the last year. So that gives that there is a demand. And proportionately, we are able to really contribute much higher than the others. As of today, I think in this quarter also, there is something like about 1%-or-so dip in the demand countrywide. But as far as NTPC and associates are concerned, we are almost double-digit increase. We believe that this demand as a what we are seeing from June onwards, it is a steady rise. And we keep comparing, and there is a healthy growth. So that is quite encouraging, and we believe that we will be able to go on increasing our market share. As we are commissioning the new capacity, we should be in a position to utilize those capacities also going forward. We are going for the -- this FGD, which will be meeting the environment requirement. And we are on track, except for the 2,000-odd megawatt. We have put up the orders, and the work is in progress in the different stages. Another thrust area is renewable. And our team, there is a -- already, you will be knowing that we have a different vertical. And in fact, I'm happy to share with you that we are very close to get the approval for our renewable subsidiary so that we can put up those assets -- the new assets, and we can even -- we will evaluate whether the existing, also if we can transfer to the -- this renewable vertical, which is going to be the subsidiary. And then we will see that how to really go forward. But I think as has been stated previous years, we are still maintaining that rather increasing. Earlier, our thrust was that we should be 30% by 2030. Out of 132 gigawatts, we should be having 30% of renewable. Today, I can say with confidence that renewable will be higher than 30%, not less. And we are quite mindful of all the aspects, whether it's reliability, availability, safety, environment. And there is a renewed thrust on the ESG. In fact, in the last Board meeting, we had discussed this, and we had now one of the Board committee which is going to be monitoring the ESG requirement and putting in place whatever is required to go on improving our ESG. That is one of the concern which has been flat, and we have to go in a whole -- holistic manner to go on improving on that. You all will be knowing that we had been recognized by CII on the sustainability and that there was a comprehensive kind of evaluation of not only the head office, but it was in all of the plants. And after that, that had come. So I will not touch base on the -- in the first opening session on the numbers because that will be a presentation which will be made by Director of Finance. So I'm just touching some of the important points. And as we all know that the renewable, along with some of the new developments like -- whether it is electric mobility or whether it is going to be the green hydrogen, I think green hydrogen is one of our focus area for the new area. There is a lot of work which is worldwide happening in the green hydrogen. And green hydrogen will serve as an even energy storage. In our assessment, green hydrogen will be catching up faster than even the battery as far as the grid storage level is concerned. And we are just exploring now whether we can have in some of the buses which can run on the hydrogen as a fuel. And that will be opening up the new avenues for the company. As of today, we are having around 20 gigawatts. And out of that, there is 15 gigawatt of the coal and rest is either hydro or the renewable. And we are in the process of going for the additional renewable energy on that. And I can, again, reassure that with the kind of performance what was demonstrated, all of you would have seen that our first unit of Singrauli, which in the first quarter -- rather the 4 months, it has clocked 100% PLF. So what we are saying is this is not the age of the plant, but how this has been operated and how well this is maintained and how efficiently we can operate that decides the kind of the reliability and the efficiency of the machine. And our team is putting all the efforts so that we keep supplying reliable, efficient power. And you would have seen the result, which, again, as I said, I'm not getting into the numbers. But as far as, I think, numbers of the Q1, you would have seen that except for the -- this rebate what we have offered to the DISCOMs, that impact has lowered the profit to some extent. Otherwise, it would have been a very, very healthy increase. And going forward, as I mentioned, let me repeat again, I'm quite convinced that the demand for the power is going to be increasing. And within that increase, we should be in a position to really take up the bigger share of that. And that will keep us as a preferred supplier. And I'm sure that with the liquidity infusion by the Government of India, we should be able to really realize our past dues. And as the power demand is going to go up, we should be in a position to maintain what we had been doing in the previous years that we should be able to realize the dues from the distribution companies. As of now, the cash flow is a little tight, but every effort is being put to see that we are able to really square off the earlier dues. And going forward, we are in a position to really get on time. And as the situation emerges, we will be constantly monitoring what has to be done. Let me, I think, share here before I just request Director of Finance to make the detailed presentation, in the last Board meeting, we had discussed whether we should go for a buyback. And we are in the process of that at present that how much, in what way we can really exercise that kind of options for the investors. So let me request here Director of Finance to make a presentation, and then we will go for some question-and-answer sessions. So as I said, I'm not interested to go into too much in the numbers at this stage, but once the presentation is over, we will be having the enough opportunity to discuss. Thank you. Mr. Gautam, can you start your presentation?

Yes, sir, I'm just starting. Thank you very much. Ashish, please share the presentation. Next? Yes, NTPC will be the core to transform area being a critical energy enabler. We would like to begin our discussion with sharing our vision for NTPC and how we expect to attain this vision. The nature of our business is not onetime kind of activity. Our investment today has to work for 30 years and beyond. So we are a long-term player. And for a long-term business, we can't afford to have a short-term vision. Thus, our vision propels us towards our mission to provide reliable and affordable power on a sustainable basis. Our vision is based on reality. Today, we are among the largest and most efficient power companies globally and intend to maintain this status. We are an important part of government's plans for building infrastructure for power generation in India. Our vision will be actualized by our core values that we call ICOMIT. These values differentiate us from our Indian and other peers, and we believe we have the capability to emerge as a world-leading power company providing reliable power and related solutions in an economical, efficient and environment-friendly manner, which would be driven by innovation and agility. Next. In my presentation, I will start with an overview of NTPC, followed by financial highlights, operational highlights, transforming power sector in India, our deep key growth pointers, being a responsible corporate citizen, various initiatives taken by the company to improve the lives of the people and environment. Next. We are and would continue to power prospective for our stakeholders sustainably. Being the largest power generator in India, we generate 22% of nation's electricity with an installed capacity of 17%. We have clearly laid growth path in the form of our corporate plan to become a 130-gigawatt company by 2032. We are progressing well to achieve the same. In FY '20, we have achieved highest ever commercial capacity addition of 8,260 megawatts. We have presently 20,533 megawatt capacity under construction. NTPC would be leading India's energy transition. In line with the same, we are committed to move towards 30% non-fossil fuel basket by the year 2032. We expect to have 30-gigawatt solar capacity by -- in the year 2032. With changing times, we are actively looking for new opportunities, both organic and inorganic. We have acquired 6,408 megawatt of power assets in FY '20, which has also led to threefold growth in our non-fossil fuel portfolio. We are also actively looking for business opportunities abroad. At the fuel security front, our requirements are covered through long-term fuel supply agreement. In addition, we also have a large coal mining portfolio. Our coal mines have an estimated geological reserve of 7.3 billion tonnes and have an ultimate mining capacity of 103 million metric tonnes per annum. On the bank of this -- on the back of this strength, we can say that we will generate -- we will be generating growth for generations. Key highlights for FY '20 are as follows. Our stand-alone regulated equity has grown by 15% to INR 61,811 crore as at FY '20 end. We have added 8,260-megawatt commercial capacity in FY '20 in comparison to 2,180 megawatts in FY '19. In line with our unwavering commitment towards environment, we have placed FGD orders for 25,810 megawatt capacity in FY '20, topping orders placed for 25,640 megawatt capacity in FY '19. We have placed main plant orders for 2,053 megawatt capacity in FY '20 in comparison to 245 megawatts in FY '19. Our captive coal mining have also picked up pace in last fiscal as we produced 11.2 million metric tonnes of coal from our mines in comparison to 7.3 million metric tonnes of coal in FY '19. Further, we plan to produce 15 million metric tonnes of coal in current fiscal. On acquisition front, we acquired 6,408 megawatt of power assets during FY '20, and we are continuously looking to acquire power assets which fit into our investment profile. NTPC Group currently has operational projects across the length and breadth of the country. Our unparalleled presence across India mitigates the risks associated with operating and from limited geographical territories. We have operating stations consisting of units of different sizes, including stations under operation with our JV and subsidiary partners. Most of our coal-based stations are ideally located close to the fuel sources, which is, again, a significant strength of our business. Now coming to our financial highlights. NTPC has been able to maintain robust margin along with sustained revenue growth. Our gross margins are strong at 40%, while our EBITDA margin are robust at over 30%. FY '20 can also be termed as the year of volume expansion as our top line crossed INR 1,00,000 crore mark. Although profit for FY '20 was affected due to one-off tax adjustment, we are confident that our financials are set for long-term sustainable growth. Our balance sheet is also consistently growing. In the current year, our gross fixed assets has increased by INR 39,922 crore, while our CWIP has decreased by INR 17,742 crore, thus unlocking capital for returns. This trend is expected to continue with around 5 gigawatt additional to our commercial capacity every year now on. On the back of these strong financials, NTPC has been consistently paying dividends for the last 27 years. We have a clear dividend policy of balancing dividend payouts with deployment of growth plans such as value-accretive acquisitions, assertive acquisitions, and we are committed to deliver sustainable value to all our stakeholders. Our consolidated financials are growing consistently. The growth is led by acquisitions of value-assertive JV and subsidiaries. Our consolidated regulatory equity has registered a growth of 28% in FY '20. At the same time, our consolidated EBITDA has increased by 19% to INR 34,445 crore in FY '20. As we move forward, we believe this growth will be consistent. Now coming to our operational highlights. Our operational capabilities have been proven with unmatched track record in maximizing efficiency. We have been consistently maintaining 2 decades spread over national PLF. Our stations clocked at PLF of 68.2% against all India PLF of 55.9% in FY '20. In FY '20, 4 coal stations of NTPC were among the top 10 performing stations in the country. Our operational efficiency is driven by a strong system guided by technical compliance document, best maintenance practices, real-time monitoring system, 100% analysis of boiler tube leakages, daily and monthly review systems, periodical structured technical audits and fleet-wide monitoring by experts. Safety is an integral to our working. We have always laid emphasis on safety, and we have robust operations and standard operating procedures in place. We have upscaled safety standards at our power plants and have inculcated complete safety of -- complete culture of safety first. We are consistently maintaining status of low-cost power producers. Our low variable charges ensures high merit order and, as a result, better PLF and efficiency in operations. We have an elaborate payment security mechanism in place. We continuously take up policy issues with CRC and other authorities. And we have witnessed substantial regulatory uptake in the form of new regulation for the tariff period 2019-'24. Therefore, ROE has remained unchanged at 15.5%; 85 kilocalorie allowed on account of loss of coal GCV; safety (sic) [ security ] expenses excluded from normative O&M expenses; recognition of cost impact for meeting environmental norms; time and cost overrun due to land acquisition classified as an uncontrollable factor; and launch of security-constrained economic dispatch has led to further improvement in our efficiency and/or more optimal use of our resources. And we will go a long way in sustaining our competitive tariff. We have proactively and successfully taken initiative to pursue fuel security for our current and future capacity. We have signed long-term fuel supply agreements with Coal India Limited and SCCL for supply of coal for a period of 20 years for total ACQ of 175 million tonnes per annum. NTPC, through a sustained policy advocacy, has signed a supplementary agreement with aggregation of ACQ on CIL subsidiaries -- on CIL subsidiary level basis resulting in optimum utilization of coal resulting in reduction in average ECR of all stations, avoidance of loss of fixed charges due to coal shortage, more efficient outage planning/stock management at power plants. We have entered into MOU with Railways for ensuring smooth coal transportation to our plants. 62% of our coal-based capacity, representing 12 out of 24 of our coal plants, is linked with MGR/belt conveyor system to our coal mines. We had total coal supply of 175 megawatts (sic) [ million tonnes per annum ] in FY '20, and ACQ was 92.8%. Our captive mining is also ramping up at a fast pace with production of around 11.5 -- 11.15 million metric tonne of coal in FY '20 and target of 15 million metric tonnes of coal in FY '21. Our company has people-first approach towards employees. We believe in continuous developing our employees through objective and open performance management system. We provide comprehensive training to familiarize our employees with technological advances and up-to-date operational and management practices. Our key employee performance metrics like sales per employee, value added per employee, profit per employee and man-megawatt ratio have consistently improved. NTPC continues to win laurels in various fields. NTPC is the only PSU to consistently feature for the past 12 years in Top 50 Best Companies to Work For in India in annual survey carried out by Great Place to Work Institute and Economic Times. We are proud of building a high-trust, high-performance culture. Now let us look -- let us take a look at how power sector is transforming in India. Indian GDP is expected to grow at fast pace in coming years, and demand for energy is expected to be in tandem with the growth of the economy. Going forward, sustained growth of GDP will contribute tremendously to the growth of the power sector. Further, there is a huge latent demand, and our demographic strength is expected to contribute to annual incremental growth of the sector in a big way. This growth is getting reflected in energy requirement as well as peak load projections by CEE. With every Indian now having access to electricity, power setup in India is certainly poised for long-term growth. With government's focus on attaining affordable 24/7 power for long, we are witnessing significant changes in entire power sector. All key indication in the power sector are expected to grow at a CAGR of 7% to 8%. With a wave of new reforms in the form of revised tariff policy and concept of smart prepaid meter -- metering, et cetera, as well as capacity addition majorly through renewable sources, we expect that the sector will grow substantially in this decade. Now coming to our key growth pointers. Our ability to manage growth beyond our current scale differentiates us and is one of our biggest strengths. We have operational capacity of 62,910 megawatts, and we have been able to consistently reduce our project execution time. NTPC Group has presently 20,533-megawatt capacity under different stage of construction. We follow a disciplined approach in taking up new projects and established the availability of 5 critical items, that is land, water, environment clearances, fuel in case and offtake before investment approval is sought from our Board of Directors. Our projects under construction are at a diverse location, which mitigates the overall execution risk to a large extent. FY '20 marked the beginning of reversal in CWIP ratio with 3,970 megawatts of commercial capacity addition on a stand-alone basis. This reversal is expected to pick pace. In next 3 years, we expect our CWIP ratio to fall steeply. We expect growth to continue going forward, and we believe the turnaround from CWIP to property, plant and equipment would be quicker because of greater mix of renewable capacity having a shorter gestation period. Our stand-alone regulated equity was INR 61,811 crore as on March 2020. We expect that our regulated equity to increase at a CAGR of 15% over next 3 years based on our capacity already under construction, making NTPC a compelling investment thing. In synchronization with Government of India push towards renewable energy, our company has corporate plan to have 30% non-fossil fuel basket by the year 2032. Company already has 1,070 megawatts of installed renewable capacity while another 2,348 megawatt is under construction. Solar projects of 2,053 megawatts were awarded in FY '20 under EPC mode. We have signed MOU with Mahagenco for 2.5-gigawatt ultra mega renewable energy park and MOU with ONGC for setting up offshore wind and other renewable energy projects. We have recently invited bids for acquisition of up to 1 gigawatt RE capacity. NTPC, being the largest power producer in the country, is best placed to support intermittent nature of renewable energy sources. Our base load plants will play a key role in taking care of RE integration through flexibilization. NTPC coal mining portfolio consists of coal mines having estimated geological reserve of 7.3 billion tonnes of coal and ultimate mining capacity of 103 million metric tonnes of coal per annum. Our growth path has widened with commercialization of Pakri Barwadih coal mine with effect from 1st April 2019. Our Talaipalli and Dulanga mines have also started production and will soon be declared commercial. We have produced 11 million metric tonne of coal in FY '20 and expect to produce 15 million metric tonne of coal in FY '21. We also expect to commence production from our mines at Chatti Bariatu and Kerandari very soon. Acquisitions, diversification and adaptability would be hallmark of success in these challenging times. We are actively looking at our acquisitions of power generation as well as distribution assets which fit into our business profile. We have acquired entire GoI stake in THDC and NEEPCO. THDC and NEEPCO have installed capacity of 3,294 megawatt and under construction capacity of 3,114 megawatts. NTPC is also looking for acquisition of operational projects referred to NCLT with good intrinsic value. We are playing an important role of e-mobility enabler by creation of public charging infrastructure. NTPC is envisaging to provide hydrogen and pure electric powertrain-based green mobility solution for public transport, which includes providing hydrogen fuel cell-based electric vehicles as well as pure battery-operated electric vehicles and buses. We have also entered waste-to-energy vertical. We have incorporated a JV company with East Delhi Municipal Corporation for setting up integrated waste-to-energy project. NTPC is also expanding its global reach. Construction activities of a coal-based project in Bangladesh are under progress. We are actively looking at East Asia, Middle East and Africa for business opportunities. Now coming to sustainability initiatives by the company. Sustainability is a challenging -- big challenge being faced by global energy companies today in the face of rapidly rising consumer demand on one hand and environmental concerns on the other hand. In this scenario, at NTPC, we have introduced new technologies, including to increase in efficiency and reduction of greenhouse gases at our power plants. NTPC has adopted Ultra Super Critical technology for high efficiency. We have taken initiative for flexibilization of existing fleet of thermal power plants though advance -- through advanced process control, APC, solutions, keeping plant parameters within the acceptable band at part load. We have introduced technology to save water through air cooled condenser and higher cycle of concentration. We have completed zero liquid waste discharge at various stations. We are developing a mega eco park at Badarpur Ash Dyke area, which is bigger than the New York Central Park. We are taking digitization initiative to optimize processes after decision-making, increase reliability, productivity and optimize resources. We have implemented e-Office at our workplace for working in paperless mode, which has ensured a smooth working for routine functions during the lockdown period. Our constant endeavor is to reduce CO2 emissions. We are committed to progress on technology front with increased efficiency and greater environment production and will be bringing our sustainability strategy with clearly defined targets very soon. We at NTPC have unwavering commitment towards environment, in line with our environment management motto: going higher on generation, lowering greenhouse gas intensity. Our company is committed to comply with new environment norms. For control of SOx, first FGD has been commissioned at Vidhyanchal. And at some, FGD is already under implementation at 59-gigawatt capacity, while FGD for around 5 gigawatt is under tendering. Year-wise implementation schedule has also been chalked out to ensure smooth implementation well within the time lines set by CEA. Further, as part of our commitment to environment, we are taking a number of Blue Sky Initiatives such as utilization of agro residual-based biofuel for power generation, which will not only reduce in-field crop residual burning resulting in lower air pollution but also reduce carbon footprint of coal-based power plants up to 10% agro residual-based. Biofuel co-firing with coal has been successfully demonstrated and is operational at NTPC Dadri. We are developing a circular economy by establishing integrated waste management facility at Delhi. We are developing waste-to-energy plant in association with various municipal corporations. We are committed to invest up to 1% of our distributable profit for research and development activities in climates and technologies. We are amongst select utilities globally to have a dedicated technology development center, which we call NETRA. The focus area of NETRA are: efficiency improvement and cost reduction; new and renewable energy; climate change; environment protection, which includes water conservation, ash utilization and waste management. NETRA has -- also provide scientific support to NTPC stations. A Research Advisory Council, comprising of eminent scientists and experts from India and abroad, has been constituted to steer high-end research. NTPC has been spending 2% of our net profit towards CSR activities since the financial year 2014-'15 onwards. Company has spent INR 305 crores on CSR activities during FY '20. The special thrust is being given to girl empowerment with an objective to make the girls self-reliant and confident in all walks of life. Company has been awarded prestigious FICCI Jury Commendation Certificate under category Women Empowerment for its Girl Empowerment Mission. NTPC CSR initiative have touched the lives of around 18 lakh people in one or the other way at remote locations. Thank you.

Vaishnavi, I think we can start the Q&A. You may please announce to all the participants, who would want to ask the question, please essentially raise the hand. Please explain them the modalities, and we will take the question one after the other.

Harsh, before we take up the question, let me just add a few things maybe that will help then for the -- some of the questions itself. I think after going through the detailed presentation by Director of Finance, many of the issues would have been cleared. But let me try to just give some substantiation of what he has said. So if you now looked at -- our power generation remains the key. As we go along, I think at least 2 to 3 decades, coal-based power generation will remain backbone. But around that, we have to really build up and build up the other business opportunities, business propositions. And we should be translating into a wholesome energy company. And that is the reason these renewables, whether it is hydrogen or whether it is mobility, which today looks to be very, very small steps, but going forward, it has a huge potential. And as was mentioned in NETRA, which is our R&D wing, we are taking a few of the path-breaking arrangements and that will be going towards carbon capture and green hydrogen. If we can do the carbon capture from our coal-based power plants, this will not be considered as a polluting plant. And if we can utilize the green hydrogen and if we can utilize this CO2 and green hydrogen to make some of the chemicals, that will really unfold to tap the unthinkable potential going forward. This is one of the great -- big opportunity which we will be able to really explore going forward. And our NETRA team, along with the different institutes, whether it's CSIR, whether it is IITs, whether it is other international institutes from Germany, et cetera, et cetera, some of the institutes from Australia, which they are working on. The biomass, MSW, et cetera, this is not only the -- going to be the need of the hour but, I think, it should also start adding to the bottom line of the company. We have structured something the -- with the EDMC which is unique in its nature. And we believe that next year, at this point of time, when we will be interacting with the investors, this will be just off the ground. And its structuring is that 26% will be from the East Delhi Municipal Corporation at the responsibility of bringing the MSW to the location of the plant. And we will be converting into -- we will be processing into and converting some of this into energy which will be utilized by the EDMC. So with that presentation, we thought this will be 26%. Through this, we should be in a position to supply the power even at the regulated tariff, which will be less than what today the -- most of the MSW plants are supplying. It should not be facing further problem. As of now, I think we have got the bids. The other things what I just said is the utilization of the fly ash. I think that's what's touched upon, reduction of the water and utilization of the fly ash. Fly ash, again, there is a lot of work which is going on. And we believe that we should be in a position to reach to utilizing around 80% to 85% of the fly ash in construction of the low-cost housing. And in addition to that, it will be used for the pavements, et cetera, et cetera. So we are looking at how to make it not only the disposal of the fly ash but making it a viable proposition, commercially viable propositions for the utilization of fly ash. As of today, we are trying to bring the fly ash even from Singrauli. I think that experiment is being done by the Director of Operation. He will be explaining if it is of any interest from the Singrauli area to Bareilly and Jhajjar, where there is a lot of demand. This will put us in a position to really work on the environment side, which should improve the ESG, and at the same time, trying to bring in the commercial aspects into it going forward. We should be reducing our carbon footprints from almost per unit generation of 0.9 to, let us say, less than 0.75. So it would be around 20% decrease over a period of next 10 years at least. We are quite focused on the -- regarding the developments which are happening, including the distribution companies. As of today, there is one team which is already constituted, and they have done some of the due diligence of some of the areas. But as of now, it is in too early stages. As you will be knowing, we have run the process to hire a Head of Distribution Business. And we will try to see that going forward, as I said earlier, not only that we maintain our leadership position in the power generation but, going forward, how we can become energy leaders mainly based on the power generation and then maybe the distribution section. Let us see how this policy goes. As of now, already it is announced that we are studying that. As of today, we have just -- we had some of the studies. And going forward, we believe a right framework would be able to utilize those opportunity for the benefit of society and the benefit of the all stakeholders. So thank you. I think by this time, there should have been questions, so let's start taking them now. I would request that the concerned directors may respond to that. Nevertheless, I would like to assure that if we are not able to give the complete detail right now, we should be in a position to give it in a short span of time. So let's go back to the question.

Thank you very much, sir. Garima, please open the floor for Q&A. I request you to please explain the mechanism to ask the questions so that all the participants are aware of that. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions]

I think you are totally clearly. Let's open the floor. Thank you.

So I see Bharani has a question. [Operator Instructions]

There are some questions already in the Q&A. This -- should we respond to that in that, otherwise?

Okay. Sure, we can do it that way as well.

Yes, it is started -- what is the average duration of PPA tenor for NTPC plants put together? I think there is no tenor put together. But there are power plants where the PPA was without having any time limit. Most of the old plants, they don't have the defined time limit. But later on -- I think Director of Commercial can correct, but later on, this is 25 years. And there are some power plants where it is completely defined. Many of the earlier power -- earlier PPAs were not having the time limit. Then, can you please click on the phone icon and join the audio? What is this? Anyway, no sound confirmation chat. What is the percentage NTPC plants capacity, our own reserves are down in first Q1? I think that was quite a lot. So let's give that figure because the Q1, what we had optimized, we had optimized our -- through SCD [Audio Gap] better than the others. But there was quite a bit substantial...

It is around INR 12,000 crores.

INR 12,000 crores, okay. That was in Q1, which has now come down.

Which has come down.

I think this was a specific question. Q1 means April, May, June. And as I said, from July onwards, there is a substantial increase. So we have -- we are running, as I just mentioned, almost double-digit growth from 1st of July till date in this quarter in comparison to last year. Got 4 questions. Where are we...

Sir, sorry to interrupt. Can we take the questions from the audience? I think the lines of quite a few have been working now. So I think, Garima, can you take the queue? I think first one is from Sumit Kishore?

Okay. That's fine.

Okay. Because there were some questions in Q&A, so sir said that he wanted to answer to those first. So that's why we were...

No, no, no. I think we can go question-wise, not a problem. This was just to see that if there is -- if they are not able to really ask.

Sure, sure, sure. So Harsh, who do you want me to unmute? Is it Sumit?

That's right. Go as per the queue.

Okay. So Sumit, you have been unmuted. Please see if you could answer to the -- you can ask your question. I see you're not connected to an audio. Is it? Are you able to listen to us, Sumit?

I think we'll take the next one.

Okay. Okay. By the time, can you check with Sumit if he can hear us because I see he is not connected to the audio. I'll take the next question. Next question from the list is Subhadip. Subhadip, I am unmuting you. Please see if you can ask your question. Sumit (sic) [ Subhadip ], can you hear us?

Hello? Am I audible?

Yes, you are audible.

Yes.

Yes. This is Subhadip here. I have, I mean, one request to the moderator is if you can explain to the participants that, I think, the audio button needs to be pressed on the same [ arrows ] to get connected to the audio. Many of us may be unaware of that, which is the reason I think there is a problem.

Okay. Okay.

So sir, two queries from my end. Firstly, you had a detailed slide on your strategy of how you see your renewable capacity addition coming up in the future with, I think -- if I remember, I think, you were talking about, what, 32 gigawatts of renewables by 2032. Now if it is possible to throw a little bit more color as to how do you see the annual capacity addition in solar or other renewables being targeted? What are the avenues of this capacity addition? Is it largely through state base? Or are you setting up your own solar parks? That will be very helpful, sir.

Is Mohit online?

I think he will not be, sir.

He will not be, no problem. So let me just -- I think then just to address about the renewable thing. I think this has been explained in the presentation, about 6,000 megawatt or something like that. There is something -- this 1,000-plus megawatt already in operation, 300-odd megawatt under construction at present. And then there are something in the tendering stage. So as of today, just to be brief, what we are doing is we are participating in the tenders of states as well as SECI. And in addition to that, there is something called CPSU scheme, wherein we are also participating into that for the different PSUs. So what we had started almost about 1.5 to 2 years back, I think this was the first time NTPC participated into the bid, and we won against the competition. So as of today, what we can put it that we will be looking at different models of the expansion in the renewable sector, whether it is the solar park, we have already signed agreement with Maharashtra, some MOU on that. We have already been allocated land for Rajasthan. Then we have also been now informed, though [ Formula 3 is here ] to come in Gujarat, Kutch, so where we will be having our own solar park. So the difference between the earlier solar park and the new solar parks of the CPSU scheme will be that we can also invest in the same solar park. In the earlier policy, the solar park developer was not supposed to be investing as a developer. So at every stage, we keep on exploring what is the possibility and do some kind of [ policy advocacy ] with the government. Then we are aggressively looking at on the floating solar. As of today, 100 megawatt under construction, it is delayed because of the COVID situation. Otherwise, we would have been commissioning in this October. The work on that is going on. And in parallel to that, there are other locations where we are just looking at. All the locations, wherever there was a space in our power stations, we have already done the DPR, and we are going ahead to add the solar in that. Primarily, we will be -- we'll have to develop the big solar parks. And that is how this 5 gigawatt in Kutch and similar capacity in Rajasthan is few of the kind of steps what I can share with you. And we had already put up the plants in Bhadla and MP, where -- there, we have the 250 megawatts which is already commissioned. But we are in discussion with almost all states. Wherever we can get the land, we will be more than happy to invest. Let me add up here quickly. And you will be able to make it clear -- make out of that, that in the recent past, there is a -- with all the countries which are sharing the boundary with India, I think, if there has to be something, that has to be government permission. And the import from the Chinese panels is likely to be severely impacted -- rather than after the 23rd of July circular, I think it will be all going to be not from China. So that itself should be in a position to see that we are giving more thrust to Make in India in Aatma Nirbhar Bharat. And more so in those things, being the cost of our funding lower than our competitors, we should be in a position to aggressively win the bids without compromising on the returns. In addition to that, as was mentioned in the presentation, there is already one tender which is going on to acquire, to start with 1 gigawatt, and that does not stop there. If there are going to be good opportunities, we should be in a position to acquire more. So organic and inorganic growth, we will go on looking at all avenues available to us. So I think this is about the solar and similarly about the wind. And then comes some of the hydro, which is already we have discussed that with the acquisition of THDC and NEEPCO, these assets have come to us. And going forward, we are already accepting the 2 of the hydro projects for -- in NTPC. And we have now MOU with the Himachal government to develop another 2 projects. And we are in talks with Karnataka and AP, which probably one of the director will be able to join and give much more detail, to explore even the pumped hydro there. So all in all, we are not saying that this is the only way to go about. We will have to go looking at that what are the avenues available, and we must go towards the expansion of renewables into that. One of the policy, what we have just -- the Government of India has already announced and which we are very thankful to them, that we should be in a position to blend the solar power once it is becoming cheaper. And during the daytime, we can supply the renewable. And when the renewable is not available, either from the evening to morning or when the wind is not blowing, we should be in a position to ramp up our coal-based generation or the gas-based generation. So this kind of modality, probably no one else is having that flexibility what we are having. And rest assured that we will go on doing everything possible. Any specific, let me just respond if there is specific thing if you maybe are looking at.

Yes. So just one point of clarification here. You mentioned that Rajasthan and Gujarat could potentially be 5 gigawatts each. Now am I to understand that these 5 gigawatts would be solar parks all owned by NTPC or partly to be bidded out to external parties and partly that you'll set up your own capacity?

This will be our own.

Understood. And the 32-gigawatt target by 2032 will also be your own?

Yes. Again, Subhadip, just as I said, as of now, this is going to be our own. But if the situation arises and we can bring the investors, we can bring the investors either 100% owned by them or it can be something where we can join hands with some people in the joint venture. You would have seen that we are in the advanced stage of discussion with NIIF to develop the renewables. And this NIIF joint venture will be -- it has not really materialized. We have already signed the MOU, and now the JV is under discussion, and we will be requiring the government permission. This joint venture will be where NTPC will be in the minority. And we will be having NIIF, and we may be having the third partner. So the point where, I think, I must make here is that we should not be just getting stuck with only one way of doing business. Thank you.

Understood. Lastly, on this thing -- just an additional point of clarification, sorry. You also mentioned with regard to blending of thermal power with solar or renewables. Are you expecting a large basket of these kind of PPAs to be coming up for bidding in the near future?

No, I didn't address to that PPA. What we said is that we have the flexibility as the coal-based power plant, that during the daytime, we can reduce the load on our units. And instead of burning coal and generating power and supplying that power, that part of this, let us say, around 40% of the capacity which we can supply through the solar generation or the wind generation. The PPA what you are talking about is totally different. We are exploring that also how we can be able to really leverage on that also.

[Operator Instructions] Thank you. I'll be passing the presenter privileges to -- Gurdeep sir, do you want me to make you the presenter once again?

No. I think let's ask the questions.

Yes. Start the Q&A again, Garima. Thank you.

Yes. So I'm just waiting if everybody is connected to audio. And if everyone is, then I'll be able to unmute.

Yes, please start the Q&A. Let's take the questions.

So only one participant. [Operator Instructions] Atul, you can ask your question.

Okay. I think some -- again audio issue. Please take the next one.

Okay. So perhaps, nobody is connected to audio. So I see that Shraddha Kumar has also raised her question. [Operator Instructions] Okay. We have a question from Rohit Natarajan. And the question is that, what is the situation with 40 gigawatts under consideration? We understand 50 gigawatts of thermal is under construction. What is the plan of growth ahead? So sir, maybe we can take this question.

No, just repeat that?

Okay. Sure, sir. The question is that, what is the situation with 40 giga -- one second. Okay, what is the situation with 40 gigawatts under consideration? We understand that 50 gigawatts of thermal is under construction. What is the plan of growth ahead?

No. I think this was addressed in the partly that this renewable thing what we were discussing. As far as the present 50 gigawatt under construction, I think there is some gap. As of today, the coal-based is 1-5, not 5-0. And we are very careful while taking up any new coal-based project. While I must emphasize here that we can't say that we will not take up any of the coal-based projects, but we will be very, very judicious, and we will be analyzing in detail and do the analysis, thread there before taking up the project. What I can share here is that we are not going to take any of the new greenfield project in the near future. And I believe, after near future, it may be not required. So going forward, there does not seem any of the possibility for the greenfield coal-based project. And the brownfield projects, we are having -- we are in a readiness for the 3 projects as of today. If the situation demands, we can start within few months. So I think we are the only company which are having enough capacity. We can go up to almost 30 to 40 gigawatts, either replacement or brownfield expansion. But if it is required, then only we should be taking up. Is there any follow-up on that?

I don't see any follow-up. Rohit, if there is any follow-up, please put in the chat window. Meanwhile, sir, we can probably move to the next question, if you allow me to.

Renewable, I think I had addressed quite a bit on that, the first question. If there is still something there that need to be addressed, please let me know.

Sure, sir. I will let you know the follow-up questions from the attendees. So the next question is, what is the receivable situation today and overdue receivables? Has the LC-backed payment security mechanism being restarted after 1st of July?

Okay. Is the -- Director of Commercial, just take up that question. And I will try to...

Yes. I think right now, we have a -- well, our outstanding dues beyond our due date to the extent of around INR 14,500 crore. And total outstanding is around INR 29,000 crore. As far as the LC is concerned, yes, that is operational right now after that post -- or from July onward. So that is there.

Okay. So I have the next question from Shikha Gupta. She's saying -- she's asking what is...

No. I think -- just hold on here for a second.

I'm so sorry.

These are the numbers what has been given by Mr. Mondol, Director of Commercial. But having said that, I think we are in an advanced stage, already 3 or 4, like Andhra Pradesh has cleared. UP has, I think, more or less cleared. These came in from the REC, PFC, what they are availing, loan. And there are other states which are in the advanced stage. As of now, one of the states where we have the maximum is J&K, and there also, there is a very good development. They also have already applied for loans. Let us see that in this week itself we are able to get that approved. So we should be in a position to [indiscernible] to mute yourself. Yes. So this is the situation, which is not very, very good, but it's a very -- there is an optimism, and there is a work towards that. And we hope that by end of this month. Otherwise, we will have to start exercising some of our -- this kind of arrangements what we are having, whether it is tripartite agreement or, at the end, if it is requirement, we have to regulate it. But I hope that, that will not be required because -- which was not required earlier also and still we should be in a position to manage.

Sir, as you have rightly told, we have already received full amount from Andhra. And Telangana, till now, the first tranche we have received. And others are all in process. In respect to Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, J&K; and UP also, second tranche. And Telangana, we will be receiving shortly.

See, nobody would like to go on paying the late payment surcharge for a long time. Okay. So can we go to the next question if this one is over?

Yes. Sure, sir. So I see Abhishek is having a question. [Operator Instructions] Meanwhile, we can take the question from the next participant, who is [ Ankur Vekul ]. So his question is what is the total trade receivable as on date and a part of it that is overdue, outstanding for more than 45 days?

I think that was already addressed.

Okay. Sorry. We'll take the next question. It's from [ Ankur ] only. Also, if these numbers can be shared for March and June end?

Well, June end, it is just -- as on date, of course, it is INR 14,500 crore. But June, it was INR 16,400 crore, which was beyond due date. And as far as March is concerned, it was, again, INR 16,700-odd crores.

So today, we are in a better situation than March end or June end. I think that's the way to look at it.

Correct.

[ Ankur ] has another follow-up stating for the surcharge income in 1Q. He's asking for the surcharge income in Q1.

I would like to answer this question. The surcharge income in this April to June '19 was INR 171 crores. And correspondingly, April to June '20 was INR 473 crores.

Okay. We'll take the next question, which is from Rohit Natarajan. And his question is, what is the brownfield capacity plan? Can we have some ballpark capacity and name of the projects?

No, no. I think just -- as I just mentioned, we at present, like Singrauli and Lara, we have even then had gone for some kind of technical specification. We are ready in that. This is going to be 800 x 2, 1,600 megawatt each. Most of the plants -- because the earlier days, the land acquisition as per megawatt was much higher than what is required today. So as I just said, ballpark figure, you can safely take around 30,000 megawatt. If required, we can add in different plants of the NTPC.

Okay. Thank you, sir. We'll take the next question from [ Ashish Shah ]. How should we look at the capital allocation? Should we continue to expect cash return in the form of dividend? Or is there a plan for buyback also? If yes, can you please highlight the quantum of buyback?

I think I did mention that in the last Board meeting, we deliberated on the buyback option also. But rest assured that as the situation emerges, we will go on taking the right decision at that point of time.

Okay. Thank you, sir. I think there were only these questions. [ Ashish ] is saying thanks. Okay, we have one more question from [ Kirti Jain ]. Sir, congratulations for the good results, given the reduced CWIP to gross FA and strong earnings visibility over the next 3 years, till next set of regulations. Why we should participate in renewable with partners? Why not we go on our own -- on full RE portfolio? What will be the equity development renewable by F '23 -- F '22E? Any thoughts that you can share when you do expect draft tariff policy implementation by the customers and they becoming self-sustained to pay the purchases?

Okay. This is not one question.

Yes. She's put in one paragraph. So maybe I can just take it one by one.

No. Is it possible that, that question can be asked by the concerned person one by one? I think this really takes care of many of the questions.

Yes. So do you -- are you saying that [ Kirti ] should ask this question from you?

One by one, I think in the parts, whosoever it is.

[Operator Instructions] I see there are 3, 4 questions all together in 1 paragraph. [Operator Instructions] Okay. Sir, we'll take the next question as she's putting them in different parts. So the next question is from Atul. What was the PLF incentive and surcharge income in Q1 FY '21 and full year FY '20?

Yes. For this quarter, I have already mentioned, current quarter, it is INR 473 crores. INR 172 crores in the corresponding quarter, okay? And incentive is...

She's asking -- he's asking different question. Just take that. Repeat the question, please?

Sir, the question from Atul was, what was PLF intensive (sic) [ incentive ] and surcharge income in Q1 FY '21 and full year FY '20?

Okay. I think then he's right. Okay. So you can take up.

Okay. And the surcharge income for the current quarter, 473 -- sorry, yes, INR 473 crores. Corresponding previous quarter is INR 171 crores. For the year, I will just give you. Now incentive is, current quarter, INR 141 crores as against INR 113 crores in the previous quarter. This incentive in current quarter, it is INR 225 crores; corresponding previous quarter, INR 116 crores. And surcharge income in the previous year was INR 1,633 crores. I think I have answered the questions.

Okay. I will read the next question from, yes, Abhishek Puri. Abhishek is asking a good -- he's saying good to see multiyear high PAF. Singrauli and Kahalgaon continue to face PAF shortfall. What is the amount? Why is there a shortfall in coal surplus scenario? And how do we plan to cover it?

I am Ramesh Babu, Director of Operations. I'll take this question. In Singrauli, we are actually doing the [ ESPR number ]. And one of our unit is also under planned shutdown. So this has actually reduced our availability in the shorter term. But once -- by the end of the year, we'll be hoping to make up the availability. In Kahalgaon also, we have -- we had -- we are -- one of our units is under shutdown for turbine overhauling. So these are only first quarter results, and we'll be able to make up this availability by the end of the financial year.

Thank you, sir. He has a follow-up saying, additionally, the rules of peak and nonpeak PAFs have kicked in. How is the experience?

During peak and nonpeak, we do not have any problem as such in maintaining the availability factors. Yes, there is a problem in the COVID situation for the high-demand and low-demand season. We did postpone the overhauling of some of our units. We have approached the honorable commission for respiting this. And this -- right now, still we are able to manage the high-demand, low-demand availability also. So going forward, as the COVID situation unfolds, we will see how the overhauls are to be planned.

Thank you, sir. We have another question from Abhishek Puri. You have ordered FGD for majority of projects, which will increase costs by [ 50 to 60 P ] versus other IPPs and state majority of which not even ordered the FGD installation projects. How do we plan to address this dilemma of being compliant early?

Okay. Abhishek, I think you should be giving credit that we are concerned about the environment, whereas some of the other developers or the power plant owners have not taken that proactive action. And in fact, this is being -- now being monitored by honorable Supreme Court. So we believe that once whichever the unit is going to commission the FGD, they will not be in disadvantage, rather they should be in the advantage. Is it enough or do you need some more kind of explanation on that?

Abhishek, if you are fine with the answer, can you please put a yes or if you need more explanation in the chat itself so that sir can address to it? Sir, he has another question stating that states have been asking for fixed cost reduction or surrender of expensive power. How can we assure investors the same rebate system will not be repeated?

See, I think we had taken a very balanced decision. And if you see that rebate, what comes out, that was around 20%. And if you -- on the yearly basis, if you are taking, that is hardly about 1.5% to 2% of the total revenue. Going forward, I think the -- as the COVID -- this impact is being controlled, and as the demand is going to go up, I think this should be a self-correcting mode. And let's see that situation will be not required, where people will not start asking, whether we should be able to increase our generation rather than only generally looking forward for the other kind of rebate situation. I don't foresee any kind of major risk as far as the demand is concerned. As I just mentioned, we are just registering around double-digit growth.

Thank you, sir. To the previous question, Abhishek has another question. How would you...

You put up the limit of 2 questions. Abhishek is trying to represent everyone, then it's a different issue.

Yes. I think they're having 4 or 5 questions now per person.

No, I think he's not the only one person. No problem, Abhishek, keep interacting with our team.

Okay.

So this is not the -- Abhishek, this is not the only opportunity you have to interact. I think you keep discussing with our concerned people.

Okay, sir.

Is Abhishek from Axis?

Abhishek, are you from Axis? Can you put in the chat? I think he's typing.

So meanwhile, Garima, can you read out the next one?

Yes. I will read out the next question, which is -- yes, Abhishek is saying thanks to you, sir, and he's saying yes.

No, no, no. We don't have problem to go on replying. But I think then as you put up then, we will have to have some principle.

Correct.

We'd like to give the opportunity to everyone. And I think there was another person who was supposed to break up the question. Has it come?

Yes. [ Kirti ], can you please break up your questions and put maybe 2 or 3 major questions in the chat? Sir is waiting to have the questions from you. So meanwhile, we can move to the next person, who is [ Abhijeet Gaurav ]. And his question is, sir, can you please provide capitalization and CapEx guiding for FY '21?

Okay. DF, sir, just mention the numbers.

Capitalization, as we have mentioned, in the current quarter, it is 3,830 megawatt. And around 5 to 6-gigawatt capitalization will be done for every year for the next 3 years. So we -- in the presentation also, we mentioned that around 20 gigawatt is our capacity which is under construction. That will be declared commercial in next 3 to 4 years.

Okay. Thank you, sir. We will move on to the next question by Anuj Upadhyay. Of the total 46,557 megawatts capacity under feasibility and balance status are all renewables? As you mentioned, only 50 gigawatts (sic) [ 15 gigawatts ] of the coal is under construction?

No. I think this has been addressed in many ways. As of today, we are having something around 15,000 megawatt under construction for coal. We have another around 6,000, 7,000 megawatt in the subsequent -- this renewable. And this is going forward. So as we mentioned, there are something -- there are 3 plants, Singrauli, Lara and Talcher. We are almost in the rightness. So those are also coming in the planning stage, but we will be only taking them once it is -- we are convinced that, yes, this is the right time to take it off.

Okay. Sir, thank you. I -- Vaishnavi is back. So I will just make Vaishnavi the host, one second. Just give me a moment. Vaishnavi, I have made you the host.

Thank you, Garima.

Thank you, Vaishnavi. So Vaishnavi, there a lot of questions that the attendees have put in the chat. So maybe I can -- so maybe -- can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you loud and clear. Please go ahead.

Okay. So the thing is that the attendees weren't able to connect to their audio option. I showed them the 3 dots and how they can connect, but for some of them, the audio option is disabled. So what we did was the attendees have given their questions to me on to the chat panel. And I was taking up their questions and speaking those questions to sir, and sir and their team were addressing to those questions.

Thank you, Garima, for filling in my absence. I'm so sorry, sir, for the gap that has happened here. [Operator Instructions] Meanwhile, I'll just continue where Garima left. I'll put the -- I'll read out the question that's put up in the chat panel. [Operator Instructions] So we have a question from [ Abhijeet Gaurav ].

So just hold on. What we are going to do with that question, the bigger question, whether we should leave that or whether we are ready to take up that?

I think, sir, I will break it up and read it out for you. Meanwhile, we'll take the other ones.

Sure.

Okay. Harsh, is there any question? Or shall I read out?

Yes, please.

Okay. Sir, we have a question from [ Mr. Abhijeet Gaurav ]. He requests you to also get the regulated equity figure and fixed costs under recoveries as of June 2020. He writes, can I also get the regulated equity figure and fixed costs under recoveries as on June 2020?

Regulated equity in April to June -- 30th June '20 was INR 62,864 crores. And there is no under-recovery of fixed charges during the time period.

Sir, there's one more question, which basically is quite an interesting one. It says that, globally, the interest rates are falling down. And in that context, would you expect the suo moto action from regulator to tweak some of the ROE norms for all the regulated entities hereon?

Regulator listens to every stakeholder. What would be the viewpoint from the investors?

We have no view at this point because since you're the regulator -- since you are the one who kind of interact and interface with them, it will be good to hear your views on that.

No. I think if the interest rate tenor becomes too low, there can be some possibility from some quarters to ask for this kind of correction. But as of today, I have not heard anything from the regulator side that they are in a hurry to look at that. And they have just come out to about a year back. And all said and done, the interest rate about -- for the -- most of the developers are close to 8% to 9% anyway.

Sir, can I supplement also?

Yes.

Actually, that -- when we set up the power plants, most of the loans, which we have taken at that point of time for funding of the power plants, they were either from the bonds or from the loans where there is no resetting clause there of loans.

Okay. Okay. So Vaishnavi, do we have any more questions?

We have a couple of more. But meanwhile, I do have a few of them who have also joined us on the audio. So I would like to mute Mr. Mohit Kumar. You will be -- you are on the unmuted line and you can speak up your question, please.

Am I audible?

Yes, Mohit. You are audible.

Sir, congratulations for the good set of results. Sir, my first question is, sir, was there any impact of ramp-up or ramp-down regulations, positive or negative, during the quarter? And did you face any issue with meeting the off-peak, peak regulations?

Our machines are capable of taking this ramp-up and ramp-down demands, and we have not faced any problem. We are taking a bit [ precaution ] regarding the methodology of evaluating it, that is the only issue. Otherwise, we are able to manage the ramp-up. And this is required in the flexibilization of the grid, and we are geared up for it.

So you don't expect any impact of this on our profitability, am I correct?

The ramp-up, ramp-down will not affect the profitability.

Okay. Understood, sir. Sir, my second question, I wanted...

Can I just add here something before you asking the second question.

Sure, please.

What we are taking up with the Ministry of Power and regulator that this should be the similar conditions for all the operators. So like in case of FGD, we had been -- our team has been working on this. There are still some of the state-owned plants, which are not really coming down on the backing down to the level of 55%. And they are not participating to that extent on the ramp-up, ramp-down extent. So this has been our constant request to Ministry of Power and the regulator that they should also be brought in because that will be giving more flexibility in the grid and that will also give us some respite because some of our units are too frequently required to ramp down and ramp up. And in a long run, this may require to be a little higher maintenance cost. That will be the impact, which may be quite evident, though it is not documented as of now. What is the second question?

Yes. Sir, my second question is on the distribution business. Are you looking only for PPP? Or are we also open to distribution franchisee model? And how geared we are in order to participate in distribution franchisee where the competition will be significantly higher?

Competition is a competition. There is a competition in generation also. But as of today, we just said that we are in the search of head of our distribution business, which will be -- I think that we will be able to hire for about 3 years or 5-year term. And we will be evaluating all the options. As of today, I'm not ruling out anything. But on a very kind of principal issue, it's better that if we are going to take up one of the DISCOM even if it is carved out DISCOM and can demonstrate there that how the technology, how the best practices of the management can make a difference rather than only the some kind of contracting agency or the outsourced agency for someone.

Okay. Understood, sir. Sir, one last question, sir. Why have we provided only INR 8 billion and not INR 13.6 billion in the quarter? What is the -- what are the things required by the DISCOMs to avail the rebate?

Okay. DF, sir?

Yes. You're right that we have agreed to give a rebate of INR 1,300 crores. But while -- our Board while approving this rebate scheme, they said that this rebate will be given only when some of the state DISCOMs, they have invoked the arbitrage or this force majeure clause, which was available to them under the power purchase agreement. So Board approved that rebate would be given once they take back that force majeure clause. So we have -- in the current quarter, we have given a rebate of INR 800 crores only to those DISCOMs who have withdrawn the force majeure clause. And balance rebate, we will be giving as and then, they invoke or they withdraw their force majeure clause.

Just a little correction here. They had given some notice that may not be exactly as per the PPA. But what we had when we had approved, as a Board, the decision, the #1 part, this is every time when they are making the payment. And in addition to that, if they have really given some kind of letter, they should take back.

I will just go now unmute next Mr. Abhishek Puri.

I think he already had his quota over.

Abhishek Puri? So sorry, sir. I will just go ahead and unmute Mr. Rahul Modi.

Sir, thank you very much for the opportunity and giving your time for this detailed presentation. It clearly helps us getting a vision of the company in the next 10 years. Sir, I think most of my questions have been answered, which were asked before. Sir, just 2 more understandings I would like to get. One is obviously on the sector overall, sir, there is -- sir, as we understand that, yes, DISCOMs always end up paying. So just your comfort level as to the progress of the reforms that are happening that can actually help us understand the receivable position, not from a current year's point of view but more on a sustainable point of view, that how far have we reached in terms of progress because there were some announcements made in terms of DISCOMs getting more financial stability. So your views on that, sir.

Yes. I think you have more or less covered in your question itself that, in the case of the government, I think there is -- at times, there can be some delay, but the dues will come. And I think we must realize that Ministry of Power and the Honorable Minister himself is taking then quite proactive steps, and including the tariff policy, et cetera, or the change -- [Foreign Language] proposed change it will be at so that it -- that really becomes sustainable -- viable and sustainable. So I think there is a realization at the highest level. And soon, I think most of the discounts will be realizing that it cannot be that you will go on taking power, but you will go on delay the payment. I think those kind of the LC mechanism itself was very, very far reaching. And I think one question, which came that when it is going to be in effect again because of the COVID, I think, for the right reason, there was some kind of relaxation, but I think those kinds of steps are very, very important. Let me here add that it was -- even before COVID and when all the households were connected and from the Honorable Minister side -- ministry side, that was -- there was a thrust that there should not be any power cuts. So I think the power -- even there is a proposal that the DISCOMs will get penalized if they are just doing the credit in a loan setting. But what is going to come out after COVID, I think the importance of the electricity is much more important. And it cannot be just owned and utilizing the service today and then forgive for the payment. I think there is a lot of appreciation about this aspect. And we believe that, going forward, once this pandemic effect is subsided, there should be a regular kind of mechanism, which should be working rather than it should be a kind of struggle every time.

I will now unmute Mr. Sumit Kishore.

Yes. My first question is, could you speak about the progress on the disbursement of the Aatma Nirbhar package by PFC and REC to DISCOMs? And how do you see the trajectory of all the receivables moving from the present INR 140-billion-plus level through the end of the fiscal? So would it be a gradual reduction? Or do you see a fast reduction when you report September quarter numbers?

No. I think you have again widened the scope of this question. We just explained to the earlier question that, today, I think there's some INR 14,500 crores is pending as far as NTPC is concerned. And there are 2 or 3 states who have already made application for this under Aatma Nirbhar Bharat, the scheme where PFC and REC is going to lend INR 90,000 crores, which I believe is going to be -- there is proposal to expand. It was earlier up to March and now it is being made up to -- I mean, a little more further. And I think in that case, there should be at least payment of the dues at one go. Let us hope that by this quarter end, we are able to really square off the past dues. That's what our endeavor is. That's what we keep striving, and we keep taking up with the states and all concerned, whosoever is.

Sure. Sir, my second question is what are your thoughts around participating in the new hybrid tenders for round-the-clock power from thermal and renewables? Recently, SECI had floated a 5-gigawatt hybrid tender for RTC, thermal and RE.

Our -- we have now one vertical. And soon, it will become a company because it's already on the way, that renewable -- NTPC renewable company. Those -- [Foreign Language] those kind of issues are going to be dealt up by that vertical. And they are -- as of now, they are assessing that. As you all know, that we don't have any surplus capacity with us, so we will have to have tie-up with someone to supply the coal-based power. Having said that, there is a possibility that the -- this NEEPCO, which is one of the plant which does not have the PPA hydro, we have the opportunity to utilize that untied capacity in a kind of renewable way. So this THDC and NEEPCO should be in a position to help us to structure a few of the things and take the advantage going forward. And as far as the thermal is concerned, if the Jhabua comes by that time, that is also one of the possibilities, there is some untied capacity into that. And if this becomes a very successful model, the -- I think that will open up the further avenues, both for the conventional and the renewable.

Yes. I also had a small question. There was a news a few weeks back that Andhra Pradesh government was wanting to pull out of PPA signed with NTPC from plants located at Kudigi and Vallur, so I think low PLF, which was resulting in high overall per unit cost of power. What are your thoughts regarding this in terms of states raising demands like this?

I think this question also came. But let me -- I think this is very, very important point from investor side. We cannot be pick and choose. But before that, we don't have any information on that, number one. Number two is we keep getting some letters saying that this is the problem, how you can really stand up? There are some people who have written to the ministry that they want to surrender that power. Incidentally, the power allocation was by Ministry of Power, not by NTPC. So this is a regulated sector. This is a very complex situation, and it cannot be pick and choose. Tomorrow, rather than anybody will be saying as an investor, one can say that why we are supplying the power below INR 2 from Singrauli. So nobody want to lose that. And someone asked -- had asked the question that, what is the tenor of the PPA? The Singrauli unit is more than 38 years old, still running at 100% PLF, supplying power at about INR 2 or less than that. So we are here as a national company, and we keep explaining these things. And that is the reason we had come out with this kind of earlier, that there should be pooled price of the fixed charges. When this did not work, I think this security constrained economic dispatch had come. And the security constrained economic dispatch is really helping. So one cannot see only one unit or one plant. It has to be considered in totality. And I must share here that my Director of Commercial -- the new Director of Commercial, Mr. Mondol, who is present here, he had made some calculation and he was just explaining that if we come out from all the PPAs, we will be far better off.

Thank you, sir. Unfortunately, due to the paucity of time, that was the last question that we could take.

No problem. I think there was one question, which we have -- we are not -- if the -- Harsh was going to break up that question. Otherwise, I'm more than happy if that question is already answered.

I'm just handing over to Harsh, sir. So Harsh will take it. Yes, Harsh, over to you.

So sir, I went through that question. And during the course of the time, that question was asked by the other participants, and therefore, I did not bother you on that part. But I thank you, NTPC management, for giving us an opportunity to host the 16th Annual Investor Analyst week. There were glitches on account of technology, and we sincerely kind of apologize for that. But you were very good and you were able to answer all the questions, which were relevant and asked by the investors. I thank you very much.

Let me say one more thing before you are thanking.

Please, sir.

This I'm telling as a kind of what we are observing in the last 2 years, not 12 months. The way the situation is happening and with the focus by the government of India on Make in India and other activities, we may get some kind of supply constraints for powers. So again, in relation with that question, that low PLF, PLF will remain low. Let's accept that. And low PLF is a indication of sufficient capacity. If somebody is saying that our plants are running always at 100% means we are capacity constraint. But even now when we are just studying this -- some of the things that in case there is a increase of demand by 10% to 15%, there is a likelihood that for the few hours, there may be supply constraint for a couple of hours. And I think by that time, the medicine will start completely reversing. So we don't carry risk for a longer duration for the lower PLF for the note -- for the results are down, not the PLF, but plants will be running maybe at a reduced PLF countrywide and which is the worldwide kind of thing. The storage, which is going to come at the hydros and what we are talking about, that should start making -- we ourselves -- this should be to see that the coal-based plants or the other plants are there. During the daytime also, we should be utilizing the renewable energy for green hydrogen and don't back down the coal-based plant. And that should be really taking care of the grid flexibilization rather than ramping up, ramping down the coal-based in the long run. So please, today, we are not in a position to say which date, but in the next couple of years, you will start seeing that kind of situation, and then we will again discuss this subject in detail. So have confidence. The power sector is going to really, I think, go on giving opportunity to everyone. And with the -- we are quite enthused by this Q2 increase in demand, and this is a clear-cut indication that going forward, these things should be much better. Thank you. Harsh, over to you.

Thank you very much, sir. I greatly appreciate the Board sparing the time and you, in particular, sharing your insights to all the investors. Greatly appreciate it, sir. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

So participants, you may want to kind of log off from the respective lines. Thank you very much. Thank you.