Objective Corporation Limited (OCL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thanks, Ben. [indiscernible] assistance here now. [indiscernible] Unless you just used it. [Voting]

Okay. Thank you. I believe that the votes have been displayed on the screen and the motion has passed. So that brings us to the end of today's meeting and I declare the meeting closed. And I'm not sure if that's a record or that was a great end-user experience, but hey, something normal than new and perhaps normal -- non-COVID transmission will resume next year. So what I'm going to do now is, as in previous years, I'm really going to sort of take us through a bit of an update of the business, talk a little bit about where we are. I won't spend too much time talking about where we've been. I think you're sort of well appraised of that. It's just really an opportunity for you to get a bit of a feel of how the year is going and what the outlook is like. So first of all, I really wanted to share this slide with you. We've kind of sharpened up our purpose a little bit. The other one that we had still meant the same thing, but I think it's important that you get great clarity with your message as much for internal purposes as external. So everything that we do today really revolves around outstanding digital government software that drives stronger communities. And I think from all the presentations we do to staff, to the presentations we do for customers, to hopefully what comes through in our annual report really reflects this as the sort of the core driver of the business. I appreciate we hear the shareholders as well. But my real view is that if we do a great job for customers and staff are empowered and a happy here, the shareholders ultimately get the reward that they deserve. If we look at the results of the year, I think you're well appraised of these. It's a great set of results so it's worthwhile putting up again. But I think the real strength of these results really comes through in -- really comes through in these recurring revenue numbers. So ECM-as-a-service was up, markedly. Connect continue to be a great driver for us. I'll talk about it a little bit later. Trapeze, again, 51% in the Trapeze business, I think, is a great outcome for the team. And Keystone look up modestly but still a net increase contributor. So a great story there. If we look at the COVID-19 impact, I think most people on the line that our operators are from here in Australia. But it really has been sort of quite remarkable in terms of the impact. Objective itself was well equipped to sort of from working from home, some of our customers not so much. We've been very diligent in trying to help those customers get the outcomes that they're seeking. And for the most part, it's been a fairly seamless sort of transition to that way of working. Equally, project delivery has been strong. We've continued our biggest project, particularly in the city of Gold Coast. There's been strong momentum in new customers in terms of delivery. And we've delivered more than 150 go-lives in the last financial year, including during the COVID-19 period earlier in the year. If we look at Connect, I think various parts of the business have been affected in different ways, some -- I guess, some things have been more positive than others. Connect has been -- has had phenomenal successful year, sort of continued right to present day. I think we were close to actually having a new record yesterday here in APAC for new workspaces, 233 overnight when I checked this morning. So it really has been a strong -- there's also been some very strong customer advocacy messages. We had the [indiscernible] who is, in fact, a content manager, customer on the ECM side -- or yes, on the content side, did a great webinar for us last week and to a huge audience and was talking about how they were using Connect to do their digital transformation within New South Wales for planning -- from a planning perspective. Lots of these positive stories coming out is really helping the company cement its position in that marketplace. On the Content Solutions side, I guess, a bit of a tale of 2 things. These solutions have continued. We probably saw a couple of deals stalled as we got towards June 30. They since sort of have been contracted, which has been great. I think it's been -- still continue to be a very solid contributor. GOV365, as we've called out before, it's been interesting as we're -- and I've got a slide up on this a little bit later about what's happened with GOV365 and Teams and what this is all about. But again, it's been -- it's had a huge positive impact from COVID-19. Keystone continues to be used by [indiscernible] customers that have their regulatory governance [indiscernible] as well and in the planning solutions area with -- particularly with GoGet and Alpha. It's been a little bit of a rollercoaster ride there, I think, in the early months of COVID-19, we saw quite a big positive impact followed by really around sort of the May and June time frame, there was a lot less applications being put in. And then since really the beginning of this financial year, it's sort of been back to norm. And I think to a large extent there's -- I think one of the things that has been interesting in terms of what's come out of the domestic situation is just how much money used to go offshore in terms of people's travel budget not being quite astounded by the amount of the money that people will spend traveling for private purposes. And as a result, a lot of that money is going back into the economy. So I certainly know here in New South Wales, the economy appears to be quite strong and building and planning, people have hung around their houses thinking about ways to improve them. And so there's a lot of DAs being submitted and the same thing in New Zealand. So a particularly interesting mix with COVID-19. I think looking forward, without sort of jumping too many slides ahead to the outlook statement, we see the economy pretty much continuing as is its interest rate is 0, as we know. And yes, I think full employment is going to resume pretty swiftly at the end of JobKeeper, there's sort of reasonable demand out there. No presentation from me would be complete if we didn't have these slides. I'd like to include it in every presentation that we do as much internally as it is externally. It's our commitment to R&D that has continued to drive these outcomes. There's no doubt from my perspective that the products that we're developing and delivering today are the best we've ever done by a significant way. I'll talk about that in the context of our story shortly. So the product portfolio, I guess, as you saw it last financial year, this was the way we organized our reporting back to you. It is going to change a little bit for FY '21 now that we've got Itree in the mix, and we've kind of -- we've got a number of other new products coming through, which will sort of change the mix. We'll talk about that a little bit more at the half year. But nothing to be concerned about, just a little bit of the way that we sort of change the way that we grouped these products together. But as you can see, these have all become reasonably solid contributors. I'll talk a little bit about the NZCC investigation. We continue to cooperate with them. It's fair to say, my sense is that we're kind of a bit of a test case for them in terms of the software industry. They don't appear to understand the dynamics of the software industry terribly well, which is probably a little bit time-consuming on our side that we have to spend our time educating them. But it's been an interesting process and no doubt we'll get to the end. I would expect that this investigation and all the things that we're doing around the NZCC is going to continue for probably another year. We're not really seeing any major impact on the company and certainly no impact on what we're doing with Build. Objective Build has been really the major focus of what we're doing over there. And that is a completely new [ KBase ], a completely new product and ultimately falls outside of really the jurisdiction of what the NZCC has. But we'll keep you updated as that goes on. It's just consumed a fair bit of time. We've obviously spent a fair bit of money on legals just through informing them in the position. So again as I said, we'll update you as things progress. Moving on to our strategy. These are the 4 pillars that I've outlined most recently that really underpin sort of the go-forward strategy for us: engineering outstanding solutions, delivering more opportunities for customers, growing our family and attracting new fans. And these are really quite pervasive elements to the business strategy, as you've seen for some time. We've probably sharpened this up a little bit for this year, but the underlying themes are very consistent with what you've seen in the past. So there if we look at the first one, I know you've seen this graph before. Again, this is really important from a customer's perspective to see that ongoing investment of R&D. We're probably -- we'll certainly beat at least at last year's level in terms of percentage in FY '21. We can already see roughly the spend that we're going to have for the year, including the investment in the Itree product as well all the previous Itree products, and so you can expect that this message will continue into the future. It's -- I won't [ labor ] on about the products here and you will appraised of the products. If we look at the strategy in terms of delivering more opportunities for customers, I think this slide really tells a great story across the 5 customer segments that we have. There is this incredible portfolio of applications that we've now gotten solutions that we've now got. You can see there the rebranded RegWorks and Reach products. I'll talk about those a little bit more in the slides time. And you can see we've got Ministerials and Opengov, which will have their own brand identity in the not-too-distant future as well. So a really broad set of capabilities and I think that really underpins the story of the company today. Again, always worthwhile to see that sort of translate into some customer names. You can see there are a broad spectrum of customers across the regions that we're in, including quite a very solid set of customers in financial services hub here in Australia. A couple of highlights for the year, just some of the projects that we've had on across the portfolio. The Highland Council using Keystone for digital plans in the U.K.; SA Health using our new Ministerial Correspondence platform, the latest version of the Ministerial Correspondence platform; Blacktown City Council, who went from paper to digital in 10 weeks. I'm not sure if anyone lives out that way but it's quite -- it was quite amazing. They went from a fully paper system to a fully digital system. It's quite a big step and quite unusual for our customers today, which has been a great success. I think on our website, you can find a video of the project there and what we did with them. And finally, our Volunteer Scotland using Connect to help with the COVID-19 effort in that part of the world. So these are gains sort of really underpin that community outcome message that we talk about so frequently. In terms of growing our family, I think as you know, we've had a very long history of developing products organically, including GOV365, the newest member of the family. We'll have some other ones out in the first quarter of next year, which I'll talk about at the half year results in February. But our organic capability has never been in better shape. The teams are producing the highest quality products that we've ever had. And I'll talk about the response we're getting in the marketplace with those. Just in terms of GOV365, I've spoken about this before. I think what we're seeing with GOV365, if you're not on, I guess, sort of off into present day, we're going to be encouraged to go back to the office, I believe, from the 30th of December certainly here in New South Wales. But Microsoft Teams, if you haven't been on a Teams meeting or a Zoom meeting in the past week, I'd be amazed. The growth of Teams has been incredible from 20 million to 75 million daily users during the pandemic. I think some us has probably a little bit Teams-ed out. And -- but it has been an amazing reliable platform. At the same time, governance doesn't go away just because we've got a pandemic, and the statutory requirement to keep records hasn't gone away. So we've had this really fantastic response to GOV365, which we're working on before the pandemic. It particularly addresses Teams serendipitously in the first instance. It's now being extended to other parts of the Microsoft platform as well. We're also working with Microsoft to promote the platform, and so from our perspective, we would expect to spend the next 12 months on an ongoing drive with this new platform, which is delivered by the cloud. Equally at the same time, we've -- I think we've made some really great, in some cases, products, in some cases, progress. I think Keystone, as we're all aware, has been a labor of love over the last 10 years. We've had some fantastic outcomes with those, particularly now in financial services. It performs one of the key parts of the organization. Trapeze and Redact, which I think have been sort of very significant transformation activities. We had our governance meeting for Trapeze at 7:00 this morning to take into account our U.K. team as well. I mean, that product has just continued to really outpace our expectations of it. Objective Build, probably not today is the time to sort of get into a lot of stuff around Build. The Build investments continuing. We've got our first cut product now available internally that we're using to educate customers with. And it is very clear that we are going to be able to transition Objective Build live sometime during 2021. We've got great support from the customers. There's some things there that I think as shareholders you'll find quite impressive when we demonstrate that system to you. And then finally, with Itree, I'll talk a little bit more about Itree in a moment, but we've begun the transition of the Itree product into the objective design language. Yesterday, we had the first sort of full-blown expose of those 2 products as they look as Objective-branded products, they've been fantastic step forward where it will be on programs to deliver those in the first half of next year. So again, that transition goes well. Just a reminder, these are some of the customers that we've had that have joined us now through Itree. We've won 2 new pieces of work since we took over, which is great. I'd love to [indiscernible] for those, but I think they are well in train before we turned up, but they've been 2 great new pieces of work. And if things go well in the next week, I would expect that we'll have another 2 new customers and 2 new projects for Itree before Christmas. So I think it will be the most successful 6 months in Itree's history by a long shot. Again, just a reminder, the -- we've got great synergy with Itree. The corporate culture, the mission, very, very completely outlined. The last 6 months, we've gone on a really interesting integration project between Objective and Itree, given that Objective was 300 people, Itree's roughly 100 people. You know that's a fairly sizable integration project. And I'm pleased to say that as of Monday, the Itree integration, I guess we're at the end of the beginning, and Itree will be completely integrated into Objective. The Itree office in Wollongong, the campus down there, will be completely rebranded this weekend, and all of the Itree capabilities will be on the Objective website for the first time. So it's been a huge effort. We've been in great pains to make sure that we -- all of the things that we've learned from all the integration projects that we've done with prior acquisitions have been taken into account, notwithstanding this one has been a little larger in terms of the number of people. And I think from everyone's perspective, both at what was Itree and Objective, the teams have worked really, really hard to deliver, I think, a world-class experience in terms of the integration of the businesses. So my hat goes off to those teams who's done a great job. You've seen this slide before. You'll see some rebrand. Next time you see this, which will be at the half year results, you'll see some sort of some other rebranding that will have occurred. I don't want to talk about sort of too much about what's to come in terms of products. You've got a bit of a flavor of it from the earlier things that I've sort of mentioned, but there's a lot of effort going into these new product releases at the moment. And then finally, attracting new fans, a huge part of what we're about. If we look at the footprint today, this gives you, I guess, today's -- a picture of today's footprint. We've been talking about this at both staff conferences and customer conferences the last couple of months. You can see there we've got an apparent live number of customers in North America. Those are all customers that we have got through OEM agreements or by probably a dozen customers are really through OEM agreements. And part of our mission is really how do we actually now start to drive out that North American presence. I think across Australia, New Zealand, the U.K., we've got a great footprint. And something that I did want to share with you, and I was told by Gartner, we couldn't do this so please keep it to yourself when it goes up on the ASX. But the Magic Quadrant came out. Well, the draft Magic Quadrant came out last week, and as I said, we've been asked not to put this out, but I think this sort of speaks volumes. Are we recording this? Perhaps not. We'll edit this bit out. But I thought this was a great call-out and something that I really wanted to share with you today, and that is that Objective had the highest Gartner Peer Insight scores for product capabilities and the ability to meet organizational needs. It was also in the top 5 for ease of experience and overall experience, indicating that users of the solution are genuinely happy with both the service and the product. Now this talks specifically to the ECM customers. And I think to call that out, I mean, this is obviously a global Magic Quadrant, takes everybody into account, all the products into account. And I think to get that quote out of Gartner in that report, if you get the -- if you're a subscriber to Gartner services or you can get a hold of the Magic Quadrant, you'll see it there. But I think that's something that everyone here in Objective is particularly proud of. The other thing that we're doing is we've had a big push on digital engagement. We are -- particularly, you will have seen just how much of the buyers' journey has now happened digitally, I mean, almost 100% of it in the last 6 months. And we think that was already happening anyway. And so it's only got faster, not slower. And there's been plenty of stuff in the media about sort of the digital transformation being pushed faster, not slower as a result of COVID-19. As I say, look, we're already on this journey anyway. But what's interesting from our perspective is so much more of what we're doing as a company is being driven by our digital presence, getting customers and prospects to engage via our website, via our digital onboarding processes. And you'll see this reflected more and more in the products as well. We've got things like Redact as you will have seen before, which you buy online. The Redact experience tells us that we can achieve this. We've brought Trapeze online as well in the last month or so. We'll be bringing more of our products into this realm where we've got customers that can onboard themselves online any time that suits them. And hopefully, we'll make sales whilst we all sleep. The -- so they're the sort of the 4 parts of the strategy. Again, I think this is very consistent with what you've seen from us before. So if we think about the single sort of outlook statement on a page, we're going to continue our investment in R&D. We're doing a lot in the AI space and machine learning. We will be able to chase some of that in -- when we sort of bring [indiscernible] online and show you what we're doing there. You'll get a much stronger feeling for what's going on from machine learning capability. We've moved RegWorks along with Objective IQ. You'll see those products released early in the new year. We're now working with customers to just validate those designs, but I think customers will find the products are a rather fresh experience. And every product that's in our portfolio is being invested in. So we don't have -- some companies sort of decide they want to take a sweet approach. From our perspective, I think as you'd know from sort of prior presentations, it's all about how do we have the best-of-breed product. Each product needs to be great in its own right. And if there's magic to be had by combining those products together, that's an additional benefit for customers. So -- and that is the continued focus from an engineering perspective. We don't have products that go into -- historically, we haven't had products that have gone into sunset mode. I guess it's probably fair to say that GoGet and Alpha will ultimately be superseded by Build in its entirety at some point in time. We'll take all customers on that journey but all products are being invested in. In terms of delivering more to customers where the cross-sell and upsell continues to work quite well. That only works if you're delivering a great outcome to customers. So if the customers are buying more products or more capabilities from us or increasing their use of products, that's a fair indication of their happiness with the solutions from Objective. So that continues as you've seen through the numbers. And we're really -- in terms of predictability of earnings, I have said in the recent presentation, if I go back 5 years and further 20 years before that, it was really difficult from both a management perspective as well as, I guess, a shareholder perspective to kind of understand where we're going to land every year. And it was just really a part of the perpetual right-to-use model and the model on which some of these companies have been built. But we're a long way into the subscription economy. We purposely are reducing the amount of perpetual right-to-use we sell. We reduced that by some 60% last year, on the prior year. We're trying to reduce it again this year. We're getting a few customers that still want to hold out perpetual right-to-use licenses. And I think come FY '22, so at the beginning of -- 6 months away or 8 months away, we will only be selling subscription sort of products, so including the ECM products. So sort of wait and see that sort of come through. But we're very pleased with the way that we've made the transition. You can see that come through, particularly in the statement of cash flows. And it's making the company extraordinarily resilient in terms of the predictability of earnings and cash flow. And again, you've seen that come through in the last 12 months' results. We're going to continue to deleverage our financial capacity to execute the right acquisition opportunities. I think there's not sort of too much I want to talk about today. There are things that we are continuing to look at. We tend not to telegraph these things in advance. We tend to talk about them after the fact, I think, as you know. But we clearly have free cash flow and reserve firepower with which to execute. I think it's fair to say that in the last 6 months, there's -- the valuations have ticked up a little bit. We've got to be careful that we make the right acquisitions for the right reasons, that they fit in with our strategy and that we're paying an appropriate multiple for those businesses, not just growing for growth's sake on well record with the same. It's about creating a better company, not a bigger company, and we need to keep that in mind. I think equally, as we've gone through this size with Itree, it's really sharpened up our playbook. There's been a number of areas of improvement where we're seeing an ability to just really shape the playbook for future acquisitions, to bring them in, potentially a little bit easier, but more so to get those acquired businesses on the Objective way. And I think Itree, normally about this time, we're in the trough of disillusionment of any kind of acquisition relationship. And I think that at this point in time, where we are with Itree is extremely solid, and I think as I mentioned before, a great reflection of the effort that the teams have put in to making that a reality. And then finally, look, attracting new fans is always something that every organization wants to do. There is no doubt that we're seeing the lower-cost products, Trapeze and Connect, well probably, Redact to some extent but Trapeze and Connect, we're seeing really, really strong growth there. But the bigger ways of getting a bigger customer set obviously through the acquisitions as well in other regions, which is other things that we look at. But I think it's fair to say that across the spectrum of those 3 pillars of the strategy, FY '21 is shaping up as another really, really good year for us. So with that, I'd like to -- look, thank you for your attendance today. The AGM is always an important part of the calendar from a shareholder perspective. We are -- yes, I will pass over to questions now and they'll come up on the screen, and I'll be able to -- we'll be able to read them out and hopefully answer them for you. So thanks again.

Okay. Julia, do we have any questions coming up?

Nothing's showing yet.

[indiscernible]

No, it's not coming up on mine.

How long is the Objective growth runway?

How long is the Objective growth runway? Look, it's fairly a vague question. I'm really -- I don't know. It's like the total addressable market question. To give you some context to it, I'm not sure if you're an analyst that's posed that question. There's been a lot of -- the last 18 months, total addressable market has become concept de jure. And look, my view is on total addressable market is [ most sense ] because you can have massive total addressable market, whereby you can perhaps only get 1% market share. I think that for me, the bigger the TAM, as it's called, the bigger the TAM, the less likely you are to be able to get market leadership position, the less likely you are to be able to execute against a TAM of that size. My view is really, where are the opportunities? Where are the opportunities to be a market leader? Isn't the TAM big enough to go and address? But a TAM could be a $50 million market for a particular product. It really is all about, can you find new opportunities to go and be #1 in that particular marketplace? And can that make a difference to the company's size and its P&L. As far as the runway's concerned, every product has got its own runway. I can't run through every product and what its potential runway is. But I think for me, the key questions are, can you get to #1 in the marketplace and how well can you execute? Are you able to actually execute in that space? Hopefully, that answers the question for you or at least give you some insight. Thanks for the question, Tony. Long time no speak. Good to have a question. But we don't set the market cap, mate, so I really can't offer you any great insight. I think you've just got to look at the marketplace for global tech companies. I think we're well on record as our numbers are probably done a little bit differently to other people's. When you expense your R&D, that has an impact on the EBITDA. But -- sorry, but I can't give you any further insight on the market cap and it is a surprise. We don't set the price for the market cap. Yes. Sorry, sorry. The question is, "What is the degree of common clients between [ SEO ] and Itree? Does the Itree customer base provides significant opportunity for other [ SEO ] products?" There's 1 or 2 customers that are overlapped. Itree doesn't have necessarily a huge customer base. It has more of a customer set of huge customers. And so I think the biggest customer for Itree is RMS here in New South Wales, Rhodes and Maritime Services, which were already an existing Objective customer. The other customers, yes, there is an opportunity to cross-sell. Equally, there's an opportunity to cross-sell the Itree products into the Objective customers. I think just over time, you'll see steady progress. I think for me, there's a large number of -- if I come back to an earlier question about runway and total addressable market, for me, there's a large number of regulators. There's a little over 100 regulators here in just in Australia, and we are going to make RegWorks the standout regulator software solution. I think in many respects, it's probably already there but there's more work to be done to, I guess, significantly reduce the sort of the competitive position of other more generic products. We will certainly achieve that in the 2021 calendar year and that will make a difference. Now all the questions coming up. Next question, "Last AGM you mentioned machine learning. Are you able to talk about that any further?" Look, I'd rather leave that for another day, and we can have a lot of our experts come in and actually talk about what we're doing and show you a presentation, particularly around Build, but there are others. I'd rather do that than sort of fumble through half a presentation demonstration of our future capability. I won't do it justice. So look, more than happy to do that. It will be in the new calendar year that there's -- for competitive reasons, we need to be careful about who we are showing that, too, but happy to set it up independently. Next question. "Do you think you will finalize another acquisition in FY '21?" Thanks for the question, Chris. I'm not sure I'm going to answer that for you, mate. It's a possibility. You'll have to watch the space. Next question. "Could you elaborate on the opportunity and vision in the local council market?" Yes, I think to really -- I think to put it in probably a slightly different context, the market that we're really looking at is the building and construction market as it relates to local government. We're not really looking at it necessarily from a straight local government perspective. So if you look at what we're doing with Build, the first part of Build that will go live will be the [indiscernible] portal. It will be somewhat more spectacular than what's been done here in New South Wales. And look, maybe there's an opportunity to retrofit at some point in time. But that product is a result of what has really been done by Alpha and MBS's GoGet over the last 15 years, combined with the things that Objective's doing. But if you think about the ecosystem that's available there and think about that first step product, it's really -- it really starts with the applicant and the applicant is not the council. The applicant is typically an architect or a group homebuilder. They represent some 97% of applications that go into local government. From there, there are a whole bunch of other stakeholders. Clearly, the local government organizations themselves, which show who are using a mismatch of applications that they're using within their own organizations. In New Zealand, we've obviously got Alpha, which is a power-based application, and the future of Build will be sort of cloud-based where the -- hopefully, the entire country of New Zealand all logs on to our application to process their applications internally to the council. Equally out from there, if you kind of follow the ecosystem approach, there's a lot of other players in the construction industry. We know the construction industry is ripe for improvement. We know that there are a lot of applications that don't go into councils because the application time is so great that it makes the development project uneconomic. And as a result, that's a pretty big impact on GDP, if you get enough of those sort of attaching together. You can see every region where we operate, every state in Australia across New Zealand, across the U.K., every political leader is today talking about. There was 1 out -- phased out in Victoria in today's media. Every political leader is talking about driving their economies and getting the economies back on track through the construction industry and why? Because it is the most cyclical sector of all of the Western economies where we're operating. And if you can build that out, then you put yourself into a position whereby you can create employment. And if you look at Objective in terms of what we're trying to do with Build, it is really all about how to actually create a great ecosystem, whether it be suppliers of products that have to go in with building applications so that they conform with things like fire standards, as we've seen. We've seen great issue with the aluminum composite panels amongst many other things. So when you are serving these applications, being able to drag in supplier information to create sort of part of this network effect is very important as well. So I really don't actually see it as a council opportunity so much as -- or a local government opportunity. I see it as a community opportunity and I'm very certain that we're going to be successful with it. Next question. "How much churn have you seen in Content Solutions products over the last 18 months?" We see mostly 0. The only time we generally see it is if there's a machinery government change. But for every machinery government change that we have where we lose the customer, we'll probably win 1 or more back. So we often state it's less than 2%. It's probably less than 1% in all reality [indiscernible] variable churn in the past 18 months with some variable churn in the last 18 years. Next question. "Is the product excellence you've achieved now accelerating the sales opportunity set and shortening of the sales cycle?" Yes. Look, without any doubt. Without any doubt, we've probably had, these last 12 months, we've had probably more inbound opportunities than I've ever seen. It's taking a long time to move customers from the old version of Objective or the non-IT version or non-browser version Objective ECM to the current version. I think that's -- I always regard that as a threat. Customers tend to loathe. They go, "Why would we change? Yes, okay, it looks a bit old and funky now, but hey, everyone knows how to use it." Whereas my perspective is, at some point in time, people will decide that old and funky doesn't cover them anymore and they need to review the market. And so my paranoia is around making sure that, that day never occurs. And so we've had a great push on. We've got some really good customers now using IQ. Scotia government is one that comes to mind, coming up to 10,000 users on that platform. And there's no doubt that when you see all the products together. Yesterday, we saw a presentation internally of all the new mobile products altogether, including RegWorks for mobile. And as a software developer, brings a tear to your eye to see all those things looking so great and so consistent with each other. So there's no doubt there's a lot of future opportunity being driven by the fact that customers want to have more meaningful relationships with vendors that can provide more for them. And I think that's sort of playing out. So I think that the question is shortening the sales cycle. I think -- I don't know, I think the sales cycle is still very dependent on the size of a sale. Obviously, the smaller products, up to about $50,000 per annum, the sales cycle has sort of been consistently from 2 to 6 months. The ECM sales, obviously, some of them are much larger. They kind of have the same variability as what we've always seen. So -- but we are getting, as I said at the beginning of this answer, we are getting more referral business than we probably we ever had before. But I think that's why equally that quote put from Gartner before is important. People will look at that sort of stuff and go, here's a company in this space that's delivering for customers. We should probably go and have a look at that, which is great. Next question. "How long -- how long the pricing model projective -- how long the pricing model work for [indiscernible] Build? Will it be per DDA or per seat? Can you please expand on the network effect of Build?" I think I've already touched on the network effect of Build. It makes sense for everybody in a region to be on the site -- I said, a region, a country, a state to be on the same platform. I think that the network effect is obvious. The network effect is obvious for the stack planning agencies, for the central government agencies such as MB in New Zealand, it's quite sort of straightforward. The pricing model for Build is still being worked on, but it won't be that different to the pricing model that we've historically had, which is a set fee per application. That's also a variable around the applications for we can't charge the same for a 30-storey building or we shouldn't charge the same for a 30-storey building as we do for [ back deck ]. And so that will come into it as well. But that's been fairly consistent with the pricing of at least Alpha in the past 12 months. And it would be good for all of you that are bringing in development applications. Please don't lie on the value of your application because that helps us with the revenue. Next question. "Can you elaborate on how you go to market, partnering with Microsoft on the Office 365 platform?" Microsoft is an incredible beast, both good and bad. I think the best that we can achieve with Microsoft is helping them get the message out there to their real sellers about the strength of GOV365. That's still an ongoing work in progress. We don't expect Microsoft themselves to sell it for us. We expect them to be an educator. And if we can help them be great educators, ultimately, that will drive the opportunity for us. Next question. It's not a question. Statement. Thanks, [ Chris Jorigan ]. "Is the U.K. central government and overall, U.K. market becoming easier to penetrate? Is it a significant opportunity?" No. It's not. I think it's the same difficult market that it's been for the last 20 years. And I think we're doing a better job at being a brand that they can know and trust. I think the government sort of cloud panel makes it easier for customers to buy. I think my broader concern probably about the U.K. is what the economic impact is going to be post COVID-19. So -- I think like all things, there's going to be winners and losers. I think we've got an outstanding set of products, which absolutely help the marketplace over there. I think post the GFC, it was a particularly tough market. I think it all sort of really depends on whether the U.K. takes the same approach to quantitative easing and funding sort of public projects as what seems to be happening elsewhere. I think, again, there's been worse to that effect. We just sort of need to see that sort of come through. But I think most Western countries are using quantitative easing of some description to help sort of pump primary economies. And if that happens, I think that will be helpful. But I think equally, our brand is really strong in the U.K. market in many elements of what we do. And so I think that is also a moat around that business. We continue to make good profits out of the U.K. We perhaps just don't see the number of new deals that we'd ultimately love to see. We're now starting to get some good traction with Trapeze Professional over there. We've got a great team in the U.K. We're clearly supported by Nick locally, and that's one of the many reasons why we have Nick on the Board. So look, I think it's the normal sort of work in progress with the U.K. And we've run out of questions, I believe, much to my disappointment. But look, really good questions. The -- I think this is really the opportunity to get some of these answered. And from my perspective, the company is in very solid -- in a very solid period. The outlook is still great. I mean, we have not seen any great change in the outlook as we go into FY '21 and even into the -- I guess, what our early views of where -- what FY '22 will hold for us. So again, I appreciate your time in joining us this morning. I know some of you will come for a backchannel to ask some more questions and you're most welcome them to do that. But yes, I really appreciate your time and of course, your ongoing support so thanks very much.

All right. Thank you.