OHB SE (OHB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to the conference call of OHB. At our customers' request this conference will be recorded. May I now hand over to Marco Fuchs.

Yes. Thank you very much. Good morning. Good morning from Bremen here. Welcome to the 9 months conference call for OHB SE. Thank you for joining us so early. We moved the call a little bit earlier because today is a very heavy reporting season. And so the slot that we usually have at 9:00 was apparently overbooked. And so now we're the early birds. I hope you have been able to download our presentation and look at our 9 months report so far. And as usual, I'd just like to walk you quickly through the slides. We had together. I'm here together on this call from the first time with Kurt Melching and Lutz Bertling, and then we'll take questions and discuss the state of play at OHB and in the space in general. If you look at Slide 2, you see our business areas. This has been introduced some months ago, nothing has changed this time. There's the space systems, the division, mainly, of course, OHB Systems here in Bremen and in Munich. The whole area around 2,000 employees. So it's, of course, by far, the most important area. Aerospace, the new aerospace after creating the digital business area, Aerospace, is the -- MT aerospace participation at the Rocket Factory Augsburg and our minority share, which was not consolidated and not part of the numbers of Aerotech, which is this equity in our numbers. And then, of course, our new area, digital, under the leadership of Lutz Bertling with OHB Digital Connect as the main company, about 500 people there and here. But it's important that our numbers -- in our numbers, we are still reporting identically in this year, as we have previously done. So we have not changed the reporting yet, it will be changed early next year that we report in 3 divisions, but the current numbers are the old space system perimeter. And what used to be the Aerospace and industrial products perimeter is maintained for this reporting year. So there might be a little confusion. I'll jump into the news of the third quarter. Here, of course, we talk about it a lot. It's actually our cover story of the Q3 report in terms of photos. Contract was signed in September. Yes, I don't want to go through all the -- hear our story again. I think this is a very nice contract for us in many ways. It's a very cheap and efficient project with regard to the scope and the ambition we have there. So it's a little bit moving already in a [ immediate ] direction, and we are very hopeful that we will be able to complete this program on time because we need to launch on October 24 in order to be punctual at the rendezvous point where we want to hopefully then measure the impact of the American Dart Double Asteroid Redirection Test mission. And this together, Hera and Dart, constitute the international Asteroid Impact Deflection Assessment collaboration. So that was very nice. On Slide 4, of course, Copernicus is the big flagship program and the main order intake we are having this year. We signed in this quarter July 31, the big CO2 monitoring mission contract at a value of EUR 445 million plus an option for additional EUR 130 million, which, of course, we hope that eventually will come for a third spacecraft. That is the backbone of the European CO2 monitoring network. So I think it's, in my view, my personal view is the most important Copernicus mission in terms of day-to-day relevance for people in Europe. However, obviously, there are other Copernicus missions, in around 2 others, OHB System and OHB Italia won the payload responsibility. The contracts have been negotiated CHIME, so-called Copernicus Hyperspectral Imaging Mission for the Environment. I think the whole thing is for the environment, but it's nice that it says Copernicus Hyperspectral Imaging Mission for the Environment. Approximately EUR 255 million to be signed very soon, actually in the next days. Actually, I think tomorrow, if I'm not mistaken.

It's today.

Actually today or tomorrow. And CIMR, which is the acronym for Copernicus Imaging Microwave Radiometer from OHB Italia the payload, approximately EUR 178 million, contract volume to be signed later this month. If we look at Slide 5, we are on a very good way to deliver on our order intake target of EUR 900 million. Because we have another mission in this context. It's technically not part of Copernicus, but it's within this context, the so-called Arctic Weather Satellite of our OHB Sweden subsidiary. Proposal contract has been -- a proposal has been delivered and negotiated and early next year, there will be another contract. And then if I just quickly add it up EUR 455 million [ EUR 255 million and EUR 178 million ], this adds up to EUR 700 million, EUR 800 million. Yes, it will be more than EUR 900 million because the small Arctic Weather Satellite mission is [ EUR 32 million ]. So we then end up with EUR 900 million and 20-ish or EUR 910 million, actually. Good. So on -- yes, it's EUR 910 million, exactly. Very good. So that's very important. Of course, it is the cornerstone of our order intake, and we believe also in terms of the topical or the activity in itself, it is very important for the future because the Copernicus. And hopefully, also the Arctic weather, that it will be not just both development sales, but especially for the Arctic Weather Satellites that we are working on, and we're hopeful that this might result in the consideration of more satellites. Good. Quick update on Slide 6 from Space Systems. We have a launch this quarter as well. Our e-sale Luxembourg satellite was successfully launched on September 3rd on Vega. There were a couple of delays with regard to COVID because Kourou was shut down, and then there were strong high winds. But eventually, the satellite was successfully launched. It is working very well. The first phase of the in orbit operation has been successfully completed, and it's now being transferred to the commercial operator exactEarth, we then will do ship monitoring services. So we're very happy with that. Then another mission we signed just recently, just last week, OHB Italia and ESA just signed the AB or A1 study for Comet Interceptor, which technically resembles the platform quite a lot with the Hera platform. So we are hopeful that we are selected them for the final implementation phase. That would be a nice contract for our Milano operation. And in terms of progress on ongoing projects, we had the completion of the instrument test phase, the instrument test campaign for our EnMAP satellite in -- undergone, as you see here are the [ gauges ] to the photo here. The photo that you can see here is the noise test. So it's, of course, the vibration and then the whole environmental test campaign, testing the instruments for us. So EnMAP is approaching completion. Very good. Moving on to the Aerospace division. Of course, business is not as good as in Space Systems there. It's well-known that the reduced production in the Ariane sector is putting the whole European launcher industry in a difficult time. MT Aerospace, of course, is also strongly affected in the launch -- the initial launch, the first launch of Ariane 6 has recently been postponed to the second quarter of '22, which, of course, means that also the following launches are delayed. And that, of course, means that the production of components from the supply chain of Ariane encountered delays and that also hits our NP Aerospace facility. The ESA council, however, good news on that, ESA council has decided recently late October, October 29 that member states from ESA will be requested to support Ariane 6 program with additional EUR 230 million in order to compensate the extra development costs that has been incurred. Here obviously, the Ariane 6 delays in the development. There are obviously impacts from the corona situation. But of course, also the market launches is complex and is more competitive than it was when Ariane 6 was initiated in 2014. So there is a strategic challenge for Europe to look again to the business model, [ cloud ] to secure autonomous European access to space. Can you hear me well? There was a noise in the line? Okay. Good. Then we'll just continue. Page 8, also from the Aerospace division, our start-up company, Rocket Factory, when I say, our, it's not our, it's together with the management team, we initiated it. And we're a significant shareholder there, but it's not consolidated, and we have no intention to consolidate it. It's going well. We are -- we made agreements with space port operators. And to be specific, we made an agreement with Andøya Space in Norway for flying there, that was signed in September. We're also negotiating with CNES for launch site implementation in French Guyana in Kourou. Nice to have 2 launch opportunities. And if you look at the photo, it looks a little bit humble there. That's the test side that our partners in Sweden from Swedish Space Corporation have done for us at the S range facility. And the blue thing is our -- what you can see there, the blue thing is our test stand -- engine test stand for the first hot fire test of the RFA ONE staged combustion main engine, that is under preparation. It will start, hopefully, late this year or maybe early -- very early in the upcoming year. So of course, a rocket is very much depending on our engine and the engine technology, especially this self-developed RFI stage combustion main engine. It's very dear to us and is very important for us. And so we are following closely that test campaign. Moving on to Page 9, digital. The new business area, I talked about it quickly, had also a contract recently. So just very -- a few days ago, OHB Digital Connect received a contract from the German Federal Office for Equipment, Information Technology and Utilization as it is translated, or as in German BAAINBw, the German Armed Forces for the regeneration and the refurbishment of mobile ground stations for their satellite communication systems that will be the one that is in operation since many years, there's SATCOMBw system in operation and the refurbishment of the ground -- the mobile ground stations will now be done by OHB, that was a competitive process. We were able to win it. So this is very good for us. It's a very important work for our team as team doing that at OHB digital. That used to be, previously used to be part of OHB Systems, but has been transferred over to OHB Digital some time ago. If we look Page 10, order intake. Now this chart, we're filling in the numbers here. So we talked about CO2M, and we talked about Hera. We talked about the upcoming Copernicus CHIME and CIMR emissions. Of course, what is going on and completely open is the Galileo Second Generation competition, business is under evaluation now. To our knowledge, there are 3 proposals being evaluated, and 1 of those 3 proposals is from OHB. And it's our expectation that 2 out of these 3 proposals will be selected to build the next-generation of Galileo. And of course, we are not aware, but we are -- as when you're in a competition, we are anxious to follow this. The other activities I'm listing here is a combination of a couple of smaller contracts around the Ariane, Electra, the Lunar Gateway is being implemented and a couple of other things which we -- namely together from institutional commercial customers. So we are quite optimistic. And on Page 11, you see that our backlog has already been up again from where we were before. So we're, again, above EUR 2 billion, which is good. And we still believe, as you saw on Page 10, we still believe there's something coming in. Good. So now let's move to the numbers, the overview on Page 12. Order intake, I just mentioned, it's basically at the same level as it was last year. Total revenues is down from EUR 659 million last year at this point to EUR 600 million. Obviously, the reason has to do with some slowdown, some delays in the supply chain around the corona impact that we are all living through in the last 8 months. That had a very modest effect on the EBITDA, which is at EUR 55.5 million compared to the EUR 57.9 million that we had last year. The EBIT is at EUR 30 million. EBT, you see here down by 26% to EUR 24 million. And this all ends up at a net profit or an earnings per share of EUR 0.96. And I will come into more detail, but it's not a secret that the Space Systems area performed well, whereas the Aerospace division performed poorly. This is, I guess, very much expected. We can talk about the details. Yes, and I think, yes, this is the reality of the situation we have. Compared to the headcount we had compared to last year, it's about 100 people more. We are now at 3,006. So it's or steady growth overall, 3% over the year. If we move on to Page 13, you see those numbers again as charts compared to the previous 3 years, the total revenue of EUR 600 million is basically falling back to where we were, in-between what we were in 2017 and 2018 at this time of the year. So you see an impact for -- on the top line. If we look at the profitability, EBIT and EBITDA, you see the same. Basically, we're falling back to the range where we were at our numbers of 2017. But now Slide 14. That's the best slide of today in terms of numbers. Clearly, Space Systems a slight decrease in total revenues back to EUR 493 million. But if you look at the profitability, it's quite impressive, the EBITDA of the pay system division with EUR 53.7 million shows a steady growth. It's more than double compared to where we were at 2017. Also EBIT with EUR 34 million, there's a significant growth and an impressive improvement. But also, just to be quite frank, I had to do also with corona because the content, the supply chain part, their percentage is lower. So the own value creation de facto is higher, but also the margin on own value added, which we compare also over the years, has in itself also performed well. So the EBIT margin of 6.9% is a good improvement. Again, it has some special extra effects in this. But of course, clearly, the performance of Space Systems so far this year is very good, and we're happy with that. Moving on to Slide 15, Aerospace performance and again, this Aerospace performance is the identical perimeter of what used to be Aerospace and industrial products in this year before we change the numbers according to the 3 divisions. I am repeating myself here, I know. But since it's also called Aerospace, I just want to be very clear. Yes, you see the top line goes down with EUR 110 million, a slight decrease, and it's even obviously much worse in terms of EBITDA and especially EBIT. So we lost EUR 3.7 million on EBIT level. That has to do with the weak performance of MT Aerospace, but it also had to do with the weak performance in this particular time frame of our [ mines operations ] that is still accounted here. That was also weak. But obviously, the mega trend here is that our launch activity of Ariane activity is going through difficult time of transition from Ariane 5 to Ariane 6, which is, obviously, if you have delays for a supplier like MT, a very difficult situation. Okay. Now moving on to Slide 16, the guidance. You recall that during our Capital Market Day on February 13 we issued the guidance as follows: the top line, total revenues we expected were to be at EUR 1.1 billion, and we expected EBITDA at EUR 80 million and EBIT at EUR 44 million. With regard to total revenues, we now no longer assume that the guidance can be achieved just for revenues because of Ariane 6 and delays in the supply chain caused by COVID-19, as I mentioned. Revenues, we expect now to be just slightly below EUR 1 billion. However, the above-mentioned influences, especially COVID, will only have a minor total effect on EBITDA and EBIT. So it's not clear for us now to the extent to which, and if at all, the actual result at the end of the year will deviate from our plans from February because you see that, for example, the profitability of Space Systems is growing well, even better than expected. And for this reason, today, we can still neither confirm or withdraw the guidance that we issued for EBITDA and EBIT that is still uncertain. It sounds strange that in mid-November, we don't know exactly where we come out there. But what we feel is that there will be no strong effect. And if at all, there will be a minor total effect on key earnings. This is our current expectation. I'm sure we'll have time to discuss that. I'm sure Kurt is eager to explain more details on this slide. Yes. Looking to the balance sheet. Well, no major changes are there compared to last year. We had the normal increase of inventories that we had during the year. Inventories tend to be lower at year-end, and we still expect that. We had on the asset side, Page 17. We had a significant increase actually in cash for this time of the year with more than EUR 100 million. But that has also to do with good cash flow during corona side. And also less cash outflow because of supply chain numbers being lower than expected. If you look at the equity side, actually on liability side of the balance sheet, a change in, you see that equity was up by EUR 16 million or EUR 17 million. That obviously has to do with the fact that we did not pay a dividend this year. And obviously, that we have been profitable. So this has increased. Pensions are slightly decreasing over time. This is normal because the pension system has been closed many years ago, and it's basically growing out of the, say, the reserves of the...

Provisions.

Provisions, yes, exactly. The pension provisions are slightly decreasing. This is only the pension system only concerns or mainly concerns but far mainly concerns in the Aerospace. Yes. If we look at the balance sheet compared to the event, the typical changes that we have over the year. It's maybe worthwhile to look at the following slides a little bit closer, the financial ratio. Free cash flow after 9 months '19 was minus EUR 124 million. And now after 9 months, 2020, it's minus EUR 47 million. So we had a better free cash flow compared to previous year at this time. Net debt is also lower with EUR 194 million instead of EUR 247 million. The net debt, excluding pensions as well, obviously. So in that respect, in terms of cash flow, we did quite well this year. CapEx overall is slightly lower than last year, but it's significantly lower, even just half of own work capitalized. So own work capitalized last year at this time was EUR 10 million for the group. And this year, it's only EUR 5 million. This -- I see this year is a good number because we have significant own work capitalized in the past, and we are having a phase where this is significantly and also significantly lower than the amortization on this. So we have a period where we are reducing this number. Looking at the chart on '20. You see the -- what I just mentioned, the net debt situation being at EUR 194 million compared to the EUR 247 million as of last year. And you see also that we had a slight decrease of debt compared to last quarter. We had net debt, excluding pensions of EUR 88 million also at a lower level. Going on to Page 21. Exactly what I said. The main message here is that CapEx overall is at the same level. It's very heavily IT-related, the CapEx these years. No concrete and buildings that used to be big a couple of years ago in Augsburg, and now it's a very strongly leaning towards IT and software. But the good message, as I mentioned, is that own work capitalized is just at the half of where it used to be in the previous year. Page 22, the free cash flow. Yes, I mentioned that before. Compared to last year quite good. Looking at the full year, the cash flow has been positive in the last 4 financial years. So of course, it's hard to predict, especially this year, but I think we're quite happy with that. Level of capital employed pretty much on the same level as it was before. Good. I'm closing my few slides with a look at the shareholder structure, which is unchanged. And this period, the management board is unchanged as well. Same 4 faces you see on the photo. And on the financial calendar on the last slide, that all these upcoming events, [ German Equity Forum ] and the conferences will all be virtual. We will participate a lot, but it will be virtual. We hope that our Capital Markets Day on February 11 will not be virtual actually. We have not actually decided, but the current plan still is to do it. We have not fully decided where to do it. My feeling is that it will probably be higher in Bremen, more likely than not because this is going to -- hopefully slowing down the corona time, probably the only location where we can do it in-person, hopefully, so we cannot travel abroad or anywhere. Frau Martina is nodding her head, because she wanted to keep it in Bremen. I think it will be nice maybe to do it in the new plaza facility, we can look at the [ MTG ] satellite there, which would be very nice. So I'm just -- maybe we should talk -- communicate this idea that it should be in Bremen and it should be probably in the plaza facility. I guess that's good. Everybody is nodding in here. This is along a [ truck ] proposal. And of course, we welcome you to come here to look at it because you can see now and then in February, very significant, maybe the third-generation satellites from there, quite impressive. Yes, the rest for next year has already been scheduled. No surprises there. Obviously, we hope that the next analyst conference, then we'll be in-person also. And I'll leave it at this point. And of course, invite you all now after exactly 30 minutes of monologue, I invite you all to ask questions. Thank you from my side, and please start the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions]

We still have people online. Can you see that?

Yes, we have now questions. One moment, please. We ask for the name. Okay, the first one, Mr. Richard Schramm from HSBC.

I have, of course, to turn to the [ capital ] statement for us, as you already mentioned, but it's quite curious that on one hand, you say you will see only a limited impact on the earnings side despite clearly lower total revenue. But on the other side, you cannot specify this or give at least a certain range. So why is that? That would be interesting to hear.

Yes. I mean, I guess, Kurt will answer that. I mean 1 of the major things that is depending is what announced or requested at the [ ESA ] Council with regard to Ariane support. That comes in, in December. It's very different and it doesn't come in. So this is one major effect that is not in our control. We hope and we expect that there might be in December a confirmation of this EUR 230 million that was requested, and that would have a significant impact also on MT Aerospace. That's the one single thing that we cannot really predict. And we debated that, and I leave the details to Kurt. But obviously, the message should not be that we don't know. But the message is that we don't confirm and don't change.

Yes. And look [indiscernible] Ariane issue, and there are also some other uncertainties, one uncertainty is, obviously, the COVID-19 crisis. Since there are some productivity impacts we have some [ in Aerospace ] and partly in OHB and have some productivity impact, and nobody knows actually how if it -- what will happen in the next 6 weeks until year-end and what impact this may have. But as already mentioned, we do not believe there are major changes because I believe that we have major deviations from the predicted EBIT figure, but we know pretty well now in the meantime that the total revenue scheme, we cannot achieve this EUR 1.1 billion, and people have at least and a figure below EUR 1 billion at the end of our forecast.

That's the effect of less subcontract, yes. It doesn't mean that we do less, but it clearly means we receive less invoices from subcontractors.

On one hand, it's a major point. The major point is if you see -- look in the details, you see the decrease of material costs in this 9 months compared to previous year, roughly EUR 45 million. And the other point is that the total revenue figure in MT Aerospace is lower than expected.

Okay. So I can follow that this lower sub supplies are good for your margins. So the lower volume estimate is then compensated by the higher on value-added and resulting better margin. But what has the Ariane part of EUR 230 million to do with your results? So I do not get this because if this does not come, you might have to think about some restructuring here, which could bite into your earnings, for example?

We do restructuring anyway. I think what it really just makes the difference is if it comes, then it is confirmed that cash will have to -- will be paid. And if it doesn't come or if it is delayed, then of course, there would be a gap. So currently, we have a conservative management judgment on that. And if it is confirmed this is positive, and if it is very negative, if it's below our management expectation, it's even having a negative impact. So we are making an assumption that there will be some moneys that are coming. And again, if compared to that, it is more, it's good. If it's less, it's bad. It could be both, actually.

So if it's more, you mean more than the EUR 230 million requested? Or this...

How this breaks down. This breaks down. This does not come to us. This is EUR 230 million for the whole industry. And out of this number, we have an expectation, and we need a certain share out of the EUR 230 million, we need. And again, below our needs, it would have a negative impact. And if it would meet our needs, it would be very good. But we made a careful evaluation of this question, but we did make a management judgment that we expect some of those moneys to come. So if it doesn't come, it would be negative. If the full amount comes, it would be okay. But there is an uncertainty around this outcome. We are optimistic, but there is an uncertainty.

Okay. Understood. And just can you give an indication of what special costs, obviously, are in the result for MT Aerospace and the restructuring going on there? Because you mentioned that there is some other measures implemented over the last couple of months, obviously.

Yes. I'm not completely sure about the number, but a couple of millions.

A couple of millions.

It's a lower million number, yes, but that is in there, yes.

So somewhere in the single digit, mid-single-digit area, EUR 5 million, plus-minus?

Yes.

Nikolas Mauder from Cheuvreux.

A question regarding your reporting structure going into 2021, please. Have you already decided whether you will report 2019 fully in the old structure? Or will you do a hybrid new/old? And what kind of indication you can give us for the quarters to come? So do you have full comparability going into the 4 quarters of '21 that you can provide us with at least on some KPIs?

Yes. Our intention we have is that we report 2020 still in this way as we do it, have done it for the 9 months now. We will not change it at year's end, but it will start in the first quarter with a new segment, Digital. And then we will give obviously comparable figures that you can evaluate this in the proper way.

Zafer Ruzgar from Pareto Securities.

I have 2 question, please. First on Ariane. And if we look into 2021, it seems that also next year will be very, very difficult. And even after the first slide, I think it is expected to be in 2022. It's very antsy how Ariane 6 will able to compete in the new space long-term market. Do you think or would you start to consider strategic review of this business?

I can confirm that it is unclear. Yes, of course, it's unclear. And -- but I have to explain that this is normal if you have a transition from an old product to a new product. So if I call recall, when it was from Ariane 4 to Ariane 5, it was very similar, that's 25 years ago. So it's not surprising that an industry that has one monolithic big product, if that changes every 25 years, there is an uncertainty in-between. So that is best that is expected, and it's part of the normal business that everybody has, where the launcher that is retired and the new launcher is coming up. However, you mentioned that, of course, the market has also changed. It's true that Ariane 5 was very successful in the market where there was no competition from the United States at that point in time. And there was some competition or there was competition, we tend to forget, from Russian operators at that point in time. So the market has changed from a competitive market Europe, Russia to a competitive market, America, rest of the world. And of course, now American launch providers are very, very strong, and they are currently dominating the market, especially SpaceX is the current market leader. So this will be answered. This will have -- it will create uncertainty for the Ariane 6 future. There's no question about it. However, having said that, the European commitment to an independent access to space, strategic access space is very strong. This is supported, of course, by France, by Germany, by Italy or by other countries. So it's clear that Ariane 6 will be completed. It's clear that Ariane 6 will be the workhorse for the institutional missions of Europe in the next years to come, whatever. For the next decade, it's clear that Ariane 6 will be doing that. However, this is obviously the smaller institutional market than, for example, the American institutional market. And so the real uncertainty around Ariane 6 is if and to what extent Ariane 6 will be capable of also winning commercial launches. This is uncertain at current time, of course, because the market is uncertain. In terms of what you're asking, what it means for us, of course, we think what we do with MT Aerospace. Of course, the current situation is not good. We hope that the business recovers. We've worked very hard on the cost structure there. We reduced headcount. We reduced size and capacity. We invested in a start-up like RFA to be in the larger segment at a different angle. But of course, it is obvious over the last year that for OHB the relevance of larger has been decreasing because the satellite business-based systems was growing over the years and the proportion have basically changed significantly. If we would go back in 10 years, the proportion between satellites and rockets was very, very different. So we are now, of course, dominated by the satellite business. And this is very nice. This is very good. And also the creation of digital and the own business area is an answer, it's a strategic answer also to the changes that we want to be downstream. We want to be in operation, we want to be in services and solution because we feel that is a growing good market potential. Launcher as a component supplier in the traditional way, as we did it in Ariane 5 will be a very minor activity, unfortunately, because the chip set of the Ariane 6 for us comes to something around, let's call it, EUR 7 million, maybe EUR 8 million in that range. And if you just manufacture 5. As you can say, it's 5 a year. You're basically in the range of EUR 40 million production revenue. And this is for a company, around EUR 1 billion is much, much, much smaller than, again, 10 years ago, the contribution of Ariane 5 was to the overall OHB group. So yes, we are drawing strategic conclusions there.

Okay. Very clear things. And finally, just a short question. Maybe I missed it, but what was your order intake year-to-date after 9 months?

The order intake after 9 months.

Order intake after 9 months, it's not obviously it's not in my office, written our documentation. But one second, if you can...

I mean, you can basically net it out from first year to last year and then subtract the revenue.

Yes. It's close to EUR 800 million.

Close to EUR 800 million. Okay. Okay.

So if you add then what we said, what will be signed very soon, which is CHIME, EUR 255 million, CIMR EUR 178 million, Arctic Weather, one more large governmental contract with the German government, which is the final negotiation and so on, then you can practically set up. Now we are already certain that we will be significantly above EUR 1.5 billion.

Okay. That's very clear. So is still your target and you will achieve that in 2020?

Yes.

Are there further questions, please? What was to explain these numbers more. Lutz wants to explain the order book in more detail. I love to talk about launcher.

Okay. So we do not have any further questions. I am sorry for the delay.

No problem. No, no. Of course, if there are no further questions. I think just assess something about the quality of the already asked questions. So they were comprehensive. And again, I think obviously, we are around, and should there be more detailed questions, please feel free to ask Martina or Lutz or Kurt or myself. From our side, we would like to thank you, and obviously, for your interest and support of OHB. And as I said earlier, we will not -- we hope that we all meet again in person on February 11 here in Bremen. And in the meantime, I can just wish you of course, good health is the most important one. And I can wish us all that we complete this year in a successful way. It will be a couple of difficult weeks between now and Christmas break, and it will be a very different Christmas break, I believe for many of us, no Christmas parties. But still, I guess, we have to cope with this. And I can only say for OHB, we are coping quite well with the situation. I'm very proud of the whole team of our people here, our partners, our customers are supporting us very well. So for me, it's a good chance to say thank you to you and to everybody around OHB, all the stakeholders. And I wish you a good day, and let's follow the reporting season and see what comes out of Q3 from the rest of the market. So thank you very much here from Bremen, and let's stay in touch. Bye-bye. Thank you.

We want to thank all the participants of this conference. Thank you very much, and goodbye.