PayPal Holdings, Inc. ($PYPL)

All right. Everybody, thank you joining us this morning on day 1 of the Wolfe Fintech Forum. I'm Darrin Peller, covering Payments Processors and IT services at Wolfe Research. Really happy to have Jamie with us, who many of you probably know is the CFO of PayPal. I think this is the second time we've been together on stage, right, at least at this conference. And so thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate you being here today.

Happy to be here. Thank you.

A lot going on, obviously, actually CEO -- CFO and CEO, I should have said, sorry about that. But a lot going on. And so maybe just, Jamie, kick us off with what you saw as some of the main takeaways from 2025, some of the key changes the company made over the past year, and then we'll go into how you look at the remainder of '26 and what are your key priorities? I think would be a great place to start.

Sure. So first, thanks for having me. We appreciate that. So with respect to 2025, we had a good year in 2025. We had good results. We also had some good learnings. But when you look across, I would say 2025 was a year where we really leaned into engagement in a different way with our consumers and our merchants. And when you just look across our results, we have really good diversified sources of margin growth. We had Venmo better monetizing, growing at 20%. We also reaccelerated our processing business margin as well. And we've just seen really nice acceleration across a number of different parts of the portfolio. I think one real highlight we had was initiating a dividend in October, which, from our perspective, when we really focus on capital return reflects our strong balance sheet, but also our confidence in our free cash flow. And then when you look at putting it all together, 2025, we had mid-teens earnings per share growth. We had 6% transaction margin dollar growth and really on the backs of diversifying sources of margin growth. And so I know there's a lot of focus in the company on branded checkout, but I think it's really important to note that between Venmo, PSP and value-added services, small business, buy now, pay later; we had a really nice diversification in terms of how we grew profit in the company, which was great. You look at 2025, we also had a lot of learnings. Branded checkout, our growth decelerated in the second half of the year. And I think that a lot of what we really learned was we've been very focused on scaling across the whole portfolio, our new experiences and a lot of other different things and we need to take a much more targeted and approach to be able to scale that, and that's really part of our pivot. But when you look at 2026, I'd say the biggest thing is focus in execution. And as Enrique comes in, looking across that, I think breaking that down into the different components of what we need to execute, that is really what we're staring straight at.

Okay. Just so really execution and moving faster and more intensely on some of your areas. I mean, on that note, obviously, that change in the new CEO, and Enrique coming in, I mean, help us understand what you think the key focus will be for him? What he brings from his prior experiences that are really going to be applicable this year and going forward for PayPal?

Yes. So Enrique started last Monday. He's out doing his listening tour with investors right now. I think you met with him yesterday, yes. So Enrique has a track record of not only being an innovator but really importantly, being just a disciplined operating leader. And coming into PayPal, he's going to bring three key things to us that are going to be really important. The first is faster decision-making, the second is a greater focus on prioritization, and the third is really bringing that discipline around our execution. And he's been on our Board for 5 years. He was the Board Chairman for the last year. So when you look at that, he's got a really good base. And I can tell you just sitting side by side with him over the last 8 or 9 days, he's already -- he's hitting the ground running. He's seeing things very clearly. He's very clearly bringing it back to a structured and methodical approach. And I think that's exactly what we need right now. We have a lot of innovation in flight. What we've got to do is really capture that, bring it down, prioritize it and really execute it.

Okay. Jamie, we're going to go into growth in the underlying drivers of the business. But first, I want to talk about this sort of strategic overview of the company for a moment. If you think about PayPal Open and -- really One PayPal, right, the ability to cross-sell all the different offerings and have a single integration, that was a big theme at your Investor Day, right? And so first, just help us understand how that's going and really what you see as the opportunity of all the assets staying together and how it's benefiting your customers?

Sure. So PayPal Open is our view that bringing a very level of services across the commerce space to our merchants, really makes us an invaluable partner. And so you look at where we play around processing, around value-added services, around branded checkout, around buy now, pay later. Bringing a very large consumer base to tens of millions of merchants, having that be a single integration point and a single access point for our merchants, really makes us a very, very important partner at the table with them. And when we do that, when we become indispensable like that, we grow ARPA, we grow monetization and it's just a really good win-win equation for us. And so PayPal Open is really us pulling that all together and having one way we talk about it, one way people access it, which I think has been really important. But when you talk about the businesses and how they work together, so I really believe that the most important way to drive value creation is to focus on organic growth. And that's exactly how we think about the integration across between processing with Venmo and branded checkout, and that's how we run the business. When you look at each of those, they've had really strong, like notable points of success. But you also look at each of them, and they also have a really strong ample opportunity for growth. And so when you drill down into those, whether it's the continued growth internationally for PSP or with value-added services, when you look at Venmo, we are just getting started with respect to Venmo ARPA and penetration and monetization. And when you look at comps out there, ways we can do that in a much bigger way. All the way across to branded checkout, which, in many ways, branded checkout, I think we really understand the equation right now around experience, presentment and selection in the integration back with Venmo or with buy now, pay later, but it's really about running the play. So we have thought about this, and we're investing at this as an integrated platform. And when you look at it, it does have some levels of shared infrastructure. But by and large, when we work with merchants, they want to work across all of it.

Well, I guess, so conversely, it seems like there is an opportunity to cross-sell appropriately. And obviously, a benefit of having synergies between the businesses. But obviously, we always get a lot of questions over the potential to divest certain assets, separate assets where the market probably is under appreciating the value of your assets. And so maybe you could just talk to that comp conceptually for a minute. Do Braintree and PSP more broadly need to be connected to the branded business? Or do you think they could operate separately?

Listen, I think that -- we think about it as an integrated platform. We go to market with merchants and have the full suite of conversations. You can look at competitors outside of us and see that they have done that very successfully in terms of being solely focused on PSP and VAS. So I think you could look at it either way. But from our perspective, the richness and the depth of the conversation with merchants right now is what we're focused on.

Okay. So it sounds like you still appreciate the assets being able to be applied both together for merchants. Is that what you're trying to say? Or...

Yes. And right now, we think that we've got ample opportunity in front of us to invest organically and grow these and create value over time. And our Board, of course, looks at different ways to maximize value, but our strategy is to run this as an integrated play.

Okay. Okay. All right. Let's touch on guidance. I mean '26, you're guiding to roughly flat transaction margin dollar growth rates, excluding interest on customer balances. Just frame the puts and takes for the top line for a moment in terms of growth this year? I know you discussed some of the growth investments you're making in the business offsetting what otherwise would be probably slightly faster transaction profit growth, but help us frame the outlook, please.

Yes. So transaction margin dollar growth in total, slightly negative ex interest on customer balances roughly flat. And the real puts and takes in that are first interest rates, they have declined in 2025. We expect them to go down a bit in 2026. And so we've got 1 to 2 points of deceleration just purely from interest rate reduction. The second piece is the investment bucket you mentioned, about 3 points of investments in 2026. And we talked about this in February on our earnings call. We plan to invest about $400 million this year, really across branded checkout, that's about 2/3 of it, and about 1/3 across agentic and Venmo Loyalty. And so that's about 3 points of reduction of transaction margin dollar growth. We expect credit to be a little bit lower in terms of its contribution this year versus last year. And then we've talked also about branded checkout just in terms of pure volume growth this year, we expect that to be lower than last year as well. So that also fits in there to bring you back to where I talked about that slightly negative or ex interest roughly flat. With respect to the investments, one thing that is important to note is that we expect -- we've looked at ROI on this over a 2- to 3-year time frame. And so when we've planned for this, we really have not baked in the benefit of any of that into the 2026 guide. And so when you look at that, that's another element there. But when you look at the investments, what they're for, how we're focused on them, it's really about investing in the foundation, investing with our merchants and really bringing more durability to branded checkout over time.

Right. Usually, you would have more operating leverage in this year, right? You'd have more faster transactions...

Absolutely, this one in 2025, yes.

Right. So in this case, you're really spending time to invest in the underlying business, which is going into your gross profit or transaction profit growth and your operating expenses, right?

That's right, yes.

How do we think about your normal run rate of investments though? I think that's a question we're all trying to figure out is does PayPal have to invest at this level to keep its growth up at all? Or can it -- is this more of a onetime reboost for the year, and then we're going to be off to more operating leverage again in '27?

I think the reality is we will have some level of investment likely around this level going into the next few years/multiyear. The competitive intensity has grown over the last couple of years. We know that to win with our merchants, we really need to co-invest with them, and we see that in a lot of different ways, whether it's really integrating buy now, pay later for them upstream, whether it is codeveloping with them in different ways around onboarding. There's lots of different ways, especially with the mega and large merchants that to really win. It's a different game with them, and each of them want different things. And so the investment really goes across a number of different areas. But I think the reality is this is something that will continue over time to really reinforce the durability in the partnership...

Okay. But can we get back to operating leverage again?

Absolutely. Because once we absorb this, we will start to grow off of these investments over the next couple of years. And you saw that -- you take 2025 as an example. We had nice contribution to transaction margin dollar growth from branded checkout. And when we are holding OpEx constant and just sort of harvesting and remixing what we're using it for, we get really nice leverage across the stack.

All right. Jamie, you probably have underappreciated assets in Braintree and other PSP and Venmo. But well, Venmo is in branded. But I want to touch on branded, even though it's one aspect of the business, it still drives, we estimate over 50% of gross profit, right? And so -- if we just start there. I mean, the business or the branded volume growth rate was about 1% in Q4. And you noted impacts from U.S. retail weakness or international headwinds. Maybe just touch on how you see them progressing and these factors progressing throughout '26? And if you could just highlight any geographic variances you're seeing in branded performance now as well?

Sure. So as you mentioned, fourth quarter, we had branded checkout growth of 1%, which was a deceleration from the third quarter. And there were three main factors that contributed to that. The first is U.S. retail. And there's a couple of elements there. One is just pure macro. We've talked a lot about macro deceleration and really a K-shaped economy sort of effect. PayPal consumers tend to be middle income, mainstream America, some skew lower income. And when you start to look at the disparity in terms of where people are spending less and where people are spending more, we are feeling that come through. And globally, we're still 50% retail, and that percentage is about the same in the U.S. So that was certainly a factor. The second was slowing international and in Germany, slowing growth across different geographic elements of our portfolio. Some of that is also macro. Some of it is also just deeper competitive intensity. And a lot of the things we're investing in, in the U.S. and have been are things we've been bringing to Europe over the past 6 months and are leaning in even more so as we get into 2026. And the third factor was tougher comps. So fourth quarter last year, we had a real strength in travel and ticketing, in crypto, in gaming, and those just didn't repeat at the same levels this year. But the other thing I would say underpinned it was just our execution. We had some notable highlights. But we also, in many places where we didn't execute the way we needed to across branded in the fourth quarter. And so when you get into 2026, all of these are focus areas. But maybe I'd start with quarter-to-date, I mentioned on the earnings call that we were seeing branded checkout be slightly better in January. And I would say it's been pretty consistent since then a little bit better, not hugely better, but...

Just slightly better than the 1%...

Slightly better than the 1%. And then when you get into 2026, we're really focused around bringing the latest merchant experience, really making sure our consumers have frictionless experience as they go, getting to buy now, pay later having that be upstream with presentment and then investing in things like loyalty and other areas like co-marketing to make sure that we're bringing the whole equation back to branded checkout.

Okay. So those are the areas you're hoping to see that's going to hopefully play out with some element of acceleration maybe later in the year to next year. But for this year, you're still calling for that lower single-digit type profile, right?

Yes.

Okay. Maybe we shift gears a little bit to agentic commerce. PayPal has been vocal around opportunity seeing both in agentic commerce and then utilizing AI, but well, let's start with agentic commerce. If you could just discuss the role that PayPal has been playing here first.

Yes. So agentic is a real fundamental shift and -- or will be over time in terms of how merchants and consumers can interact with each other with respect to commerce. And it's really important to us that we're a first mover that we really are in the middle of the action as we do it. We've been focused on two main areas. The first is being the trusted orchestration layer for merchants as they link into LLMs. The second is bringing commerce infrastructure to bear. PayPal brings some really important strengths to the table here and really notable differentiators. One is identity, authentication, fraud and then also a really seamless ability to transact cross-border with all of the regulatory, all of the foreign exchange, all the different compliance elements of what you have to do there. So when you're in LLM, all of these things, you don't have to build those capabilities, the single orchestration layer means you can seamlessly connect to tens of millions of merchants almost overnight, and they take away the real scaling problem and the build problem. And you can go from a cold start to something that you can really work with very, very quickly. And I think that is very appealing, and we're working across a number of different players right now, whether that's Microsoft, Perplexity, Google, OAI. And then we bring 400 million consumers as well. So the whole equation is what we're really focused on making sure that we can not only get in and invest and demonstrate the examples of what we're doing, but the building that out at a more scaled level and as we move through the next year or 2, having that be something we can build upon.

Okay. What kind of time line do you see on any of the implications on both you guys and the industry more broadly?

I think it's really hard to say, if I'm honest. It's changing a lot even month-to-month in terms of how LLMs and merchants think about how they want to play, what's important to them as they play, how they want to do it. What are their monetization strategies for their company today versus commerce, and you see some of that playing out. But I will tell you, all the big players are squarely focused on commerce. They know it is an integral part of not only sort of ads and offers on how you reach consumers and then convert consumers with them. And they're all super focused on subscriptions and making sure they get the stickiness with consumers too. And so when you bring it back to kind of what we bring, not only the scaled capability, but the tens of millions of merchants and the hundreds of millions of consumers, we're a really attractive partner for them, and that's what we're really building on.

Okay. Let me shift to buy now, pay later, which is obviously an area that's been a source of growth for you guys. I think it was up 20% in 2025 to over $40 billion in volume. So help us understand the changes that you're making over the last few years to drive these kinds of results? And what you intend to do in that business to maybe keep it going at those rates?

Yes. Buy now, pay later has been really exciting. We entered buy now, pay later several years ago, but it was really just a business that wasn't highly integrated yet into branded checkout. And one of the really important things that Michelle Gill, who leads financial services for us, when she came in a couple of years ago was, number one, she really rebuilt and evaluated the team talked about them. The second thing she did is she really, really pushed into the integration of that with branded checkout and the importance of that linkage. And that's what we've been focused on. When you see buy now, pay later, when we bring customers in, they not only transact more with us through buy now, pay later, but also through branded checkout, and they also buy with larger AOV and really have just a much richer habituation around all of our products. So it's a really important cornerstone of it. What is different now is we're very focused on upstream presentment and capture. And we're also very focused on really underwriting a longer-term ROI around customer acquisition and using it as a customer acquisition tool. And I will tell you that is not something we were doing a couple of years ago. And so while this is something where we've got really good starts with merchants around doing this, it's also something where we have a lot of work to do. And so part of this investment that we're making in 2026 and as we move deeper into it is to -- in addition to a lot of other things, a part of this is to really focus with merchants. And I talked before about building integrated buy now, pay later product. In some places it will be co-branded product. But really taking it upstream and helping merchants not only capture new consumers and help them be sticky, but also bring that into the PayPal ecosystem and using it as a way to say, with merchants who have different demographics than the PayPal demographics, capture customers that we wouldn't have been able to capture before.

So again, just timing-wise, when do you expect us to see the benefits of these investments? I mean it's already been growing 20%. But -- is this going to accelerate it? Or is this going to keep it growing at a healthy rate?

It will do both. You mentioned we had $40 billion of TPV and buy now, pay later in 2025. We have consistently been growing buy now, pay later at 20%, more than 20%. As you go forward, we fully expect to see at least that growth. But what I'm more excited about is how that sort of builds and accretes over time with the customer acquisition element.

Okay. Let's shift to Venmo monetization. Another very strong asset for you guys that's been growing well. Also, revenues growing 20% in 2025, I think it was $1.7 billion. And so -- and you also have active accounts that are approaching -- I mean, I thought they were over 60 million, but they're approaching...

Monthly actives are 67 million, yes.

Yes. And I think annual actives over 100 million.

Over 100 million, yes.

So maybe just touch on the key drivers for improved monetization of Venmo. It's an area that I know you've talked about for some time. But what's going to help accelerate that forward from here?

Yes. So I love talking about the Venmo product. So it's an amazing demographic, young affluent. You mentioned 67 million monthly actives, a little over 100 million active accounts, which is really awesome. But when you look at monetization, again here, I would say 2 years ago, it was something where it was -- the product is largely peer-to-peer transfer, right? And what we've done over the last couple of years is really expanded deeply into a couple of areas outside of the core changes to the app, making it more usable and bringing more features and functions that sort of bring people in and keep them in the app. We've also invested deeply in Venmo Debit. So that now you can use your Venmo balance at point of sale and online in different ways. We've also invested in Pay with Venmo, and you've seen us talk about that in connection with branded checkout growth. And with respect to debit, it's been really fun because this is a fun demographic to lean into. You've seen our programs across the Big Ten, the Big 12, where we're not only leaning in to bring in new customers in our cohort and keep them with us for a long time, but we're also then giving them co-branded debit cards. So if you go to Ohio State University, you'll have an Ohio State branded debit card. You can use it at the bookstore, and we really start to habituate people around this idea that your parents can send you the money or you can get it peer-to-peer, you can go pay for your pizza, you can go pay for your books, whatever it is you want to do, but then that habituates and keeps them with us for a longer period of time. And we've had nice success there. But those programs have really just launched last summer. And you're going to see another splash with the Final 4 and some of the basketball stuff here in March as we continue to work that. And the Pay with Venmo has been a fun one, too, because that's something that's been growing at about 30%, a little over 30% quarter-over-quarter, year-over-year. But Pay with Venmo brings to our merchants this demographic they want, which is something they haven't been able to have access before. But when you bring it to a mobile-first merchant, when you bring it to a quick-serve restaurant, it also mirrors really nicely with what our consumers want to do with the product. And so the growth there has been really strong, and we expect -- we're excited about where that can go to. When you look at opportunity outside of us, though, I think it's pretty clear when you look at comps that there's a lot you can do with Venmo. We are just getting started. While we've made really good strides in monetization and ARPA, lots of opportunity to continue to penetrate there.

You mentioned execution at the outset in terms of what we really want to see this year. So are those the areas? Is it Venmo? Is it buy now, pay later? What else? Is it modernization of checkout? Help us understand the key areas, and if it is modernization of checkout, we can go there next. But are those the key pillars?

It is. It's really the same strategic pillars we talked about, which is growing branded checkout, really investing in Venmo growth, really focusing on processing and VAS and is in growing omni. And when you look across all of that, Venmo, certainly a key part of that, and it's the play that I was just talking about and continuing that. But honestly, our focus -- our really significant focus is branded checkout. And it really goes across experience, presentment and selection and making sure that across all of that, it really works. And I mentioned a minute ago that when we think about experience, it's our latest experience with merchants, but it's also consumers use of biometrics and having frictionless authentication and having that work with the merchants. It's about upstream messaging, it's about upstream presentment, whether that's buy now, pay later or the button and it's also getting into loyalty programs in a bigger way and making sure we're also co-marketing with our merchants to bring customers in, grab them and then make sure we're growing with them.

Jamie, I mean when we take a step back, your Venmo business and your buy now, pay later business, which is embedded in branded has gone well. So it's really the non-BNPL, non-Venmo area that's decelerated, right? And so I want to understand what you're doing that's actually incremental and new this year versus what we've heard from the company over the past year to help accelerate it really. I mean modernization of checkout is an area we were hopeful on, and it's still happening, but it's been going on for a while.

That's true. And I think that one of the things I talked about earlier is the fact that when we focus on modernization of the checkout experience, we were focusing on -- we were -- I shouldn't use the word focus. We were executing across everything as opposed to being focused in terms of being able to scale it and choosing the top merchants, getting the launch scaling, and then moving to the next cohort and the next cohort after that. And I would also say with respect to consumers, bringing them in. If you don't have ways to habituate them with respect to having the deeper co-marketing, having loyalty programs. So then once they're here, keeping them with you because they've got a deeper, more rewarding way around the flywheel to engage with us and our merchants. We haven't had those things. And so when you look at 2026, what -- you're right, buy now, pay later, Venmo, those things are things we're going to continue running the play on, although I would argue that buy now, pay later coupled with the consumer elements of this should make it even richer in terms of the customer acquisition piece of it. But loyalty launching that midyear is going to be very significant for us. Merchant co-marketing, we started that last year, but we've got plans for that, that are bigger and deeper this year. And then sort of the frictionless piece of this, combined with merchant experience is really important. The thing I would just say, when you look at fourth quarter, what was really interesting about our performance is where we had all three of those things working together, where we had merchants on latest experience, where we had upstream, where we had co-marketing, those -- the merchant performance for us was markedly better than where we didn't. And so...

Even on the button, even branded.

On the branded button. The branded checkout TPV was more than 10 points better. So we know the equation works. It's just not deployed across everything.

Right. And you think you can get there by later this year in terms of at least getting more and more customers.

It's still next couple of years, and we've been very consistent on that time line, but the acceleration of that across these different pillars will make meaningful progress.

Okay. Let's talk about Braintree and just enterprise for a moment, just because it is, I think, an underappreciated. It's growing double digits, right, from a TPV standpoint. Came up a lot recently in chatter over whether it deserves or needs to be with the whole company or -- but putting that aside for a moment, it sounds like you want to operate integrated for at least for the near future and see how it goes. When we look at Braintree, I mean help us understand for us just what the differentiation of that business is because I think it's kind of underappreciated that it's growing double digits, and it has really, to some degree, level the playing field on things like auth rates. So what are you seeing there?

Yes. This is a business that is on par with its peers in terms of its core underlying performance. You talked about auth rates, but when you look at uptime, authorization, all of that, its performance is very strong. But what was different about it is we had been using this as a way -- in an integrated way to really bring the full suite of products to merchants, but we hadn't been pricing it in a way that was sort of the right value prop. And so what we've really been focused on is profitable growth in Braintree and really working through a renegotiation process with some of our largest merchants. We've also been really focused on bringing value-added services, and that's really significant, pricing and value-added services because -- those are two things that we hadn't been focused on before. We've been focused almost solely on performance and working across. Where we are today is we have turned the business and we had dips in revenue as we did this into a profitable margin grower, and it's a grower. The second is value-added services. We have, I think, 16 value-added services today. A couple of years ago, we had just a handful. And so that, scaling those, bringing those to bear, having those be something that are win-wins with our merchants and priced accordingly has been a nice way to grow. Going forward with Braintree, we have tons of opportunity internationally. This has been largely a U.S. business. And so taking kind of the pillars that we've built now and now scaling that internationally and continuing to improve, I think, is a really exciting next stage for them.

Okay. That makes sense. Shifting to debit for a minute. Again, an area that you've been doing pretty well with actually. And talk about a little more on -- I mean, it grew 60% in 2025. Just what are the trends you're seeing there? What's driving such strong consumer adoption on the debit business for you guys? And where do you see that going?

Yes. So 60% growth year-over-year in debit. And when we started this in September of 2024, we've actually brought in 8 million -- or over 8 million consumers into the debit product. And it's really on the backs of rewards and offers and different ways that we've brought consumers into habituate them around the brand. And what we find is when we bring them in as a debit consumer, not only do they transact with us as a debit consumer, but they also bring in a halo effect across branded transaction. And the their online transaction growth goes up 20% or 30% as well. Interestingly, the debit transactions themselves are as profitable from a margin perspective or more than branded checkout, so it's a really healthy equation for us. But importantly, for us, it's the use and keeping them habituated around the PayPal brand and in the app and with branded checkout, which is why we're very focused on it. You've seen our welfare campaigns. You've seen the different ways that we've really brought the top of funnel in, but this is a way of grabbing, engaging and acquiring in a way that we hadn't had before.

Okay. Just to wrap it up from questions from my side, and then we'll open it up maybe to one or two if we have time. Just capital allocation. I mean you obviously kicked in with a -- you started a dividend last year, which was lower received by some investors, and you had $6 billion share repurchases planned for this year. Just touch on your capital allocation framework a bit and maybe a little more on just even beyond capital return, anything on M&A or anything else you're seeing?

Sure. So I mentioned before that we believe that organic investment first is the way we think about the business, that growing the businesses organically give us even more optionality from a capital allocation perspective. So it starts with investing back into product, marketing and tech. And we're at a point where more than 60% of our OpEx is in product marketing and tech, and we have really remixed our OpEx profile to be able to do that, and we'll continue to do that. But when you get beyond that, we've had a very healthy buyback program. We have a very strong balance sheet with more than $15 billion of cash, more than $6 billion of free cash flow every year. Our buyback represents about 100% of our free cash flow. And in addition to that, we launched a dividend in October, like you mentioned, where we targeted around 10% of non-GAAP net earnings, in terms of the payout ratio. So I think really strong from that perspective. When you look at M&A, I think over time, absolutely, M&A needs to play a part of this. I'm really excited about Enrique coming in because I think as we get settled in the seat around our execution. We'll have more degrees of freedom to really look at how we can then execute well across different kinds of capital allocation plans.

Right. Because you're trying to take somewhat of a pause on M&A for a little while, right?

To make sure we have the ability to do it well.

Right. Okay. Okay. All right, guys. Any questions? Maybe we have time for one or maybe two. Okay. Well, Jamie, thank you for joining us. That was great. Appreciate you being here guys.