Power Grid Corporation of India Limited (POWERGRID) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

On behalf of Power Grid Corporation of India Limited, we welcome you to the analyst meet to discuss the fourth quarter and annual financial statement for the financial year 2023-'24. I now invite Mr. Satyaprakash Dash, Company Secretary, to initiate the proceedings.

Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Power Grid, I welcome you all to this investors and analyst meet. Today, our senior management is there with us to discuss the company's business performance and financial things of -- based on the present -- recently published financial result. It's my pleasure to welcome the senior management of Power Grid and introduce them: Mr. R.K. Tyagi, our Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Abhay Choudhary, Director, Projects; Mr. G. Ravisankar, Director, Finance and CFO. Before proceeding further, we are presenting a short video on Power Grid. [Presentation]

Thank you. I will now request our Chairman and Managing Director to address the gathering. Subsequent to this, the floor will be open for question and answers. Chairman sir, please.

Good morning, everyone. Honorable investors, our partners and colleagues, I -- behalf of Power Grid, I want to thank everyone for attending this investors meet, along with my Board colleagues, Mr. Abhay Choudhary, Mr. G. Ravisankar are there. Our Director, Personnel, Dr. Yatindra Dwivedi, has gone to U.S. for receiving one of the very prestigious ATD BEST Award 2024, which we have received for the third time. It is a matter of pride for all of us. I also want to congratulate each one of us for surpassing market cap of INR 3 lakh crores on 20th May 2024 and the speed at which it has surpassed INR 3 lakh crores from INR 2 lakh crores in first week of December '23 by 20th May '24, almost 5.5 months. So there are many more achievements, milestones in future to come. On behalf of Power Grid, I assure every one of you that we are committed to achieve many more milestones in future. Today, I will cover Power Grid overview, major highlights, performance of Power Grid, what is the growth outlook in next 7 to 8 years, and what awards and accolades we have received in recent past. As you know, we are a Maharatna company, Schedule A. As per DPE, we are third profit-making CPSE after ONGC and NTPC. Market cap, as I told that it has -- we have achieved on 20th May INR 3 lakh crores. We have our operations throughout India. With neighboring countries like Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, we have cross-border interconnection of about 4,000 megawatts. We also have footprints in 23 countries with 47 subsidiaries, 12 joint venture companies and 4 associates. We are handling huge asset base, one of the largest transmission company in the world. Our operations, our credit rating are excellent. It is at par with sovereign rating, credit rating domestically and international. As I told that the -- this widespread transmission asset about 1,77,000 circuit kilometer and 1,503 transmission lines are spread across India. You go to any state, our transmission tower is there. We have 278 substations, 5,27,000 MVA capacity. Interregional capacity, about 99,580 megawatt, which is almost 83% of interregional capacity. This indicate that more than 100,000 megawatt can be transmitted from one corner of the country to another corner of the country. Power generated in Tamil Nadu can be transmitted to Leh and Ladakh. Similarly, power generated in -- hydropower generated in Arunachal Pradesh can be fed to Delhi and Haryana. We are handling almost 99% system availability. We are achieving -- last year, it was over 99.80% availability, which is one of the highest in the world. Our trippings also, it is one of the best in the world. So our operations are excellent, and our experts, technical expert team is working day and night to ensure availability and reliability of power system in India. Two years back in 2021, 2022, during COVID period, we have -- everyone witnessed that power supply was maintained reliably, and our dedicated manpower worked day and night even in COVID days and ensured that reliability of power be it Leh, be it Arunachal Pradesh, be it Sikkim. So everywhere, it was maintained. We have HVDC systems, about 18 stations, 800kV and 500kV, which is one of the highest system voltage. One multi-pole carries almost 6,000 megawatts. That means one tower of HVDC line, it can carry 6,000 megawatt, which is more than the requirement of cities, metro cities like Mumbai, Hyderabad, Chennai and other cities, except Delhi, where power demand is about 8,000 megawatt. Otherwise, one tower of HVDC can feed one full big city, metro city. We have 62 765kV substations, 167 400kV substations and for reliability and dynamic compensation for reactive power management, we have dynamic compensation of SVC, static VAR compensator, and STATCOMs, 20 numbers. 63 GIS, especially where land scarcity is there. We have state-of-the-art technology through GIS up to 765kV. And our transmission towers, which are spread on hills, mountaintop, river, everywhere, whether it be desert, be it dense forest, everywhere, our towers are spread across country. We have more than 3,800 transformers and reactors. Major highlights: We have won 13 ISTS TBCB projects in financial year 2024, like Bidar, which is Bidar substations and Bidar to Maheshwaram transmission line, 765 kV level. Sikar-Khetri transmission system, that is 2 transmission lines from Sikar to Khetri and Narela; Koppal II and Gadag II Transmission Limited, which is also two numbers of 765kV lines and one 400kV line with two stations, one 400kV and one 765kV. Vataman Transmission Limited, it is for evacuation of power to be generated in Khavda area. Khavda, it is -- huge potential is there, over 40,000 megawatt, so it is part of that transmission evacuation system. Neemrana II Bareilly Transmission Limited. Bikaner III to Neemrana, this is for evacuation system of Rajasthan Renewable Power, Bikaner III substation and associated Bikaner III to Neemrana II transmission line. Ramgarh II Transmission Limited, it is Ramgarh substation plus Ramgarh to Bhadla III 765kV transmission line. Then, Beawar Dausa 765kV. Ananthapuram Kurnool Transmission Limited. Rajasthan, we have Barmer complex -- Jaisalmer and Barmer Complex. It is part of 5.5 gigawatt Part E and Part C. Then Khavda area of Gujarat Phase IV, Part 2, Part E2, which is basically augmentation capacity of Khavda-2 and Khavda-3, KPS2, KPS3. In terms of NCT cost, it was about 65% of total projects, which were bid in '23-'24 and annual tariff is about 64% of the total. Other highlights: The cabinet approved Green Energy Corridor especially for Ladakh, Pang to Kaithal HVDC and at Pang and Kaithal VSC stations and associated AC transmission line at Pang and Leh. This was approved in financial year '23-'24. Then MoU, we have signed with RVPNL, Rajasthan for formation of 76:24 (sic) [ 74:26 ] JV company for intrastate transmission projects initially for about INR 10,000 crores transmission system; and maybe later on, many more will be there. Similarly, we are also in discussion with Andhra Pradesh Transmission Company, APTRANSCO, for formation of JV company similar to Rajasthan and also with Assam and UP. So intrastate transmission system also is likely to be developed by Power Grid through joint venture or through TBCB -- intrastate TBCB companies. We have successfully completed 5 numbers TBCB projects in financial year. We are not only winning the project but also completing. Power Grid Ramgarh Transmission Limited, which is the execution or setting up of Fatehgarh-III substation and Fatehgarh-III to Fatehgarh-II transmission line, Fatehgarh-III to Jaisalmer transmission line at 400kV level. POWERGRID Bikaner Transmission System Limited, which is setting up of Bikaner-II substation, then from Bikaner-I to Bikaner-II 400kV line and then Bikaner-II to Khetri, 2 numbers of 400kV double circuit line; then Khetri to Bhiwadi. Then POWERGRID Meerut Simbhavali Transmission Limited, it was basically intrastate transmission system part of UP, where we have set up Meerut substation, 765kV/400kV and Simbhavali, 400kV substation with the 400kV transmission line between Meerut and Simbhavali; and LILO of Hapur-Noida at Meerut, then Muradnagar II-Simbhavali 400kV line. So this was commissioned in financial year FY '24. Then most prestigious POWERGRID Neemuch Transmission Limited, which was linked with generation of solar power in Neemuch area. This, we have completed in last financial year, which involved Neemuch substations at 400kV/220kV and 400kV transmission line from Neemuch to Mandsaur and Neemuch to Chhitorgarh. Then another intrastate transmission line, Gomti Yamunanagar -- Yamuna Transmission Limited, which involved setting up of 400kV Mohanlalganj substation, which is close to Lucknow and associated transmission line in UP. That was also completed last year. Then we also signed supplementary agreement with Ladakh Power Development Department for setting up of border area works for Ladakh UT sanctioned under RDSS scheme of government of India. We also granted patent for thermal energy storage based air conditioning system and a method to manufacture the same. It is a matter of pride for Power Grid that we have been -- our operations have been certified for ISO 55001 for Asset Management System Certification. Only limited companies worldwide have been certified for ISO 55001 in recent past. It ensures that reliability of our system is maintained. All risk, be it political, be it financial, be it safety, be it reliability of system, are taken care if we have ISO 55001 and our reliability is maintained. There will not be any surprise for the management that something has gone bad. So if the system is implemented, then our systems are in place and all risks are taken care beforehand. So it is very prestigious. I want to compliment Power Grid team for achieving this ISO 55001. Your company has also shown transparency. We have been certified by BIS for implementation of Anti-Bribery Management System, ISO 37001:2016. It was recently certified by BIS. So the code of integrity pact, transparency and ethics in Power Grid will be ensured. They are already there in place, but we have been certified also now. Performance highlights. We have -- as I told, we have executed these 5 TBCB companies, which involved 19,720 MVA capacity, 6 numbers of substations and 4,036 circuit kilometer of transmission line. The name of transmission line are, as I told, Bikaner-II-Khetri, 2 number double circuit lines. Then Lower Subhansiri-Biswanath Chariyali, which is linked with hydro generation of about 2,000 megawatt at Lower Subhansiri of NHPC. So these have been commissioned before generation. So one line was commissioned in '22. Second line has been commissioned now, second double circuit line. Then Khetri-Bhiwadi, this, I had told, the Neemuch-Chhitorgarh, Sitamarhi-Dhalkebar, the international line between Nepal and India. Fatehgarh-III to Jaisalmer-II, and these are the stations at Meerut, for Fatehgarh-III, Bikaner-II, Simbhavali, Mohanlalganj and Neemuch. In project execution, we had a target of about INR 8,800 crores last year in FY '24, but with the support of our partners, we were able to achieve INR 12,500 crores CapEx in FY '24, which is about 4% of our -- more than -- over 4% of our gross block, which is about INR 275,000 crores. This year, we have a target of about 6% growth from 4% to 6%, even -- which will be around $2 billion, maybe about INR 17,000 crores or we will try to achieve even better than INR 17,000 crores. Capitalization, it was INR 7,638 crores (sic) [ INR 7,618 crores ]. This year, we will try to double it. We have many projects in pipeline, and we are working day and night to achieve our capitalization double of what we achieved last year, maybe around INR 15,000 crores to INR 16,000 crores. Our operational efficiency, I told that it is one of the best in the world; and continuously, we have been achieving. That means our operations are in safe hand. Our experts are working day and night. We were able to achieve 99.85% availability last year, and trippings was 0.28 trippings per line. That indicates that 4 lines -- out of 4 lines, only 1 line trips in -- or 1 line trips in 4 years, 0.28 trippings per line. And this has been possible by adoption of latest technology, intelligent inspection in POWERGRID. We are using headgears to ensure that every activity is monitored by experts sitting at control center, and person working at site will be transmitting the picture or the details of the work being done at site through headgear to the experts sitting in control center. Then reliability centered maintenance, I told that all assets are being mapped and we are mapping each asset. If we have 290,000 towers or 3,800 transformers and reactors, around 15,000 breakers, about 20,000 current transformers, about 14,000 CVTs, 12,000 surge arresters, so put together, we have about 400,000 equipments together. So manually, it is not possible to monitor and analyze and map the risk involved in each asset. So we have mapped each and every asset digitally, and we have mapped risk associated with each element digitally, and action taken for repair and maintenance, monitoring are being done, considering risk involved in each element or each equipment. So through reliability centered maintenance, we will be able to ensure that there is no surprise for the management. Everything will appear on the dashboard, and all this will be mitigated before time. Then remote operation of substations. As you know that our -- all substations are being remotely operated from our control center at Manesar and regional control center in each region. So all stations are unmanned, operations are remotely done. So chances of human error are minimized to ensure that reliability and fatal accidents and everything can be ensured in a better way. Then equipment through PALMS, POWERGRID Asset Life Management System. Digital substations, we have implemented at Malerkotla and Chandigarh. Now we have two more stations, one at Navsari, 765kV and Kanpur, 400kV. Through patrolling of transmission line, we are using high-zoom camera, and drone patrolling is also being done. Once picture is taken through camera through drone or manually, this picture is transmitted to the software through internet -- through our internal communication system. Then automatically defects are identified and defects will be identified in each and every tower. And automatically, through artificial intelligence and machine learning, the data will be transmitted to the maintenance engineer or maintenance crew at site, and automatically defect will be communicated and defect report will be made. So that action can be taken by the concerned maintenance engineer. So without waiting for the report from site, the report is generated automatically so that action and reliability of the system can be maintained. We have center of excellence for control and protection system at our control center in Manesar, and PG-DARPAN and other applications are in place to ensure that our transmission network is safe, it is reliable, it is properly maintained. I will tell that we are in process of implementing asset management performance through world-renowned vendors like IBM, Accenture, GE, TCS, LTIMindtree, AREVA, and this asset performance management system has been implemented by world best utilities like Terna Italy, Fingrid Finland, ISA Colombia, National Grid U.K., TenneT Netherland, TNB Malaysia, OETC Oman, then EirGrid Ireland, DEWA in UAE. Our experts have visited Terna Italy, ISA Colombia, Fingrid Finland and ElectraNet Australia to see their system so that best of these utilities can be implemented in Power Grid. These utilities claim that the operations cost can be optimized. It can be reduced by 15% to 20%. So after implementation of this asset performance management system, we are hopeful that at least 10% operations cost can be reduced in Power Grid, also apart from ensuring reliability and security and risk management. The financial performance: If we talk of quarter 4 FY '24, income was about INR 12,254 crores. Profit is INR 4,128 crores. There was some -- then in -- on consol basis, this was INR 12,305 crores and profit is INR 4,156 crores. So there is a slight dip in Q4 because of onetime order of Raigarh-Pugalur. We got some arrears in last quarter of financial year 2023. And there was some arrears pending. There were some CRC order received in last quarter of FY '23, and we got somewhere about INR 200 crores for Nagapattinam, our TBCB project, which was pending for some time. And we got some onetime tariff for our -- these assets. So that is why, last year, it was slightly more as compared to this year if you see the profit, so it is slightly different. So this is because of that reason. If we talk of total financial year, we have achieved about INR 45,815 crores income; profit of INR 15,475 crores, which is slightly higher than the total income we achieved in FY '23. On consol basis also, it is slightly better than INR 46,913 crores and profit is against INR 15,420 crores. Our overall, on consol basis, profit was INR 15,873 crores (sic) [ INR 15,573 crores ]. So on Q4-to-Q4 comparison, we are slightly lower considering our onetime order for Raigarh-Pugalur and Nagapattinam, but on overall basis for the financial year, we are slightly almost 1% higher than the last 1 year -- last year, FY '23. These are the details of our financial performance. In Q4, the total income from operations was INR 12,254 crores. For complete year, it was INR 45,815 crores. EBITDA margin was INR 10,358 crores, and for complete year, it was INR 40,045 crores; profit after tax, INR 4,128 crores and INR 15,475. On consol basis, also, it is slightly better than last year, almost 1% higher than last year. If we see our overall financial performance, as I told that, on a consol basis, we have INR 2,75,991 crores fixed asset or gross block, and we achieved about INR 12,500 crores CapEx, which was more than 4%. So this year, we will -- we are targeting to be more -- about 6% to 7%. Work in progress, we have INR 19,468 crores projects in progress. Long-term debts have decreased from last year. It was earlier INR 1,25,000 crores. Now it is INR 1,20,000 crores. Earning per -- net worth is INR 87,000 from INR 83,000; earning per share, INR 16.74. Then book value per share, INR 93.70. Debt/equity has improved from 61:39 to 59:41. And return on net worth is 17.87%. Other key financial parameters: Income for previous periods, consol basis, INR 826 crores. Interest on differential tariff, INR 966 crores. Interest from subsidiaries and JVs, INR 1,459 crores. Surcharge, INR 146 crores. Incentive, INR 573 crores. Dividend from JVs, INR 68 crores. Dividend from subsidiaries, INR 891 crores. Dividend from associates, the companies which we have given to PGInvIT, about INR 79 crores. CSR expenses, INR 312 crores. FERV INR 191 crores. Equity in TBCB operation, we have about INR 3,809 crores. Equity in TBCB under construction, INR 598 crores. Short-term loan, about INR 2,694 crores. If we talk of dividend, this year -- happy to announce that this year, financial year '23-'24, we are the highest dividend payer company in the history of Power Grid, which is INR 15,463 crores as compared to -- sorry, INR 10,463 crores as compared to INR 10,289 crores last year. Last year, it was 67% of PAT; and this year, it is about 68% of PAT. In terms of dividend per share, in September '23, we have given bonus share, 1 share in -- for every 3 shares. If we consider that, last year, we gave a dividend of INR 14.75 per share. This year, we have given, if we don't consider this bonus share, then it will be INR 15 per share. If we consider bonus share, then this year, it is INR 11.25. Last year, it was somewhere about INR 11 or something like that. So it is better than last year if we consider 1:1. Next. As I told in the starting that, in last 4 years, our market cap, Power Grid market cap, your market -- your company market cap has increased by 210%. On 17 November 2016, we were -- market cap was above INR 1 lakh crore. On December 5, 2023, it crossed INR 2 lakh crores; and within almost 5.5 months on 21st -- 20th May, we achieved more than INR 3 lakh crores. So future is bright. Company is in safe hand. And we are committed to achieve many more milestones in future. Highest share price, which Power Grid share has achieved is about INR 328 crores on 22nd May. In consultancy, we have -- last year, we have earned about INR 553 crores. We have 9 international assignments, new; 19 ongoing international assignments; 21 new domestic assignments and 79 ongoing domestic assignments. We have international assignments from TANESCO Tanzania-Zambia transmission line in Africa. Then Fiji, we have transmission line construction work; then UETCL in Uganda. Then Nepal Gorakhpur-Butwal, we are executing that transmission line for international cross-border interconnection. The telecom performance also has improved from INR 720 crores to INR 822 crores in FY '23, '24. 121 new customers have been added. INR 870 crore multiple year orders have been received. 3,000 locations, pan-India locations, we have. Our telecom network is spread across the country. We have about 1,000 circuit kilometer -- 1,000 kilometer of OPGW network, and our backbone availability is 100%. Business segments, leased lines, MPLS-VPN, data services, infrastructure services, upcoming services like ILD connectivity with neighboring countries like Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh and Myanmar. In terms of commercial performance, we have billed about INR 42,793 crores last year. We have achieved INR 42,820 crores have been realized, which is 100.06% of realization, total. Next, if we look at sectoral outlook, energy transition is to happen. We are committed. Power Grid is committed to participate and contribute for energy transition, which is the vision of country, vision of the world. In this direction, India to be a $5 trillion economy by 2030. So a lot of growth is expected. So if growth is there, transmission sector has to grow. Without electricity, growth is not possible. So if the GDP growth is 6%, so it has to be -- the electricity growth has to be more than what GDP growth will be there; then 50% nonfossil fuel capacity by 2030. 500 gigawatt is to be installed by 2030. Then government has announced Green Hydrogen Mission. For that, also about 125 gigawatt power requirement will be there for producing green hydrogen for local consumption and for export. We have intermittent renewable power. So for grid stability and for reliability of our network, energy storage is required in terms of pumped storage or battery storage. So Power Grid will play a role in connecting these battery storage system and pumped hydro stations. And international connection, if sun energy has to be utilized by all countries of the world, One Sun, One World, One Grid mission of Government of India and international commitment, we had to have international interconnection like India to Singapore, India to Oman, India to UAE and other countries. Similarly, there will be interconnection from Middle East to Africa, Africa to Europe and many interconnections between Europe and countries so that the concept of One Sun, One World, One Grid can be achieved. So that means many more projects are in pipeline for which also Power Grid is getting ready, and we are hopeful that we will also contribute for One Sun, One World, One Grid. In this concept, the power generated maybe in Myanmar, Thailand and other countries in East can be transmitted to Europe. And once sun is there in Europe, that power can come to various other part of the countries, various other countries. So one sun, one world, we are committed, and we are seeing the potential in this aspect also. We see Power Grid, how it looks like by another 7, 8 years. We have mainly outlook in transmission business. Interstate, we see it is on conservative side. I will say INR 1,36,000 is on conservative side. We are hopeful that it will be much more than INR 1,36,000, but even if we consider INR 1,36,000; the intrastate transmission system, about INR 37,000 crores; cross-border like neighboring countries, about INR 10,000 crores; international projects like we have won in Kenya, which is getting matured now, we have got the in-principle approval. And final details are being worked out and work will start shortly. The subtotal of transmission system will be about INR 1,90,500 crores. If we consider other businesses of Power Grid, solar generation, smart metering, data center, so put together, this is about INR 2,07,000 crores by 2032. I will say it is on the conservative side. It -- we are expecting that business -- this to increase. Work in hand as on today, and I told that work in progress was INR 19,000 crores. Apart from that, we have work in hand about INR 86,700 crores and more than 80% towards renewable energy evacuation, out of which we have INR 11,200 crores RTM projects, INR 24,700 crores new RTM project, about INR 50,000 crores other projects. These are RE-linked projects. This year, I told that we have -- as per our MoU target with government of -- we have 15,000, but actually, it will be about $2 billion, or even more than that. Toward sustainability aspirations, we are committed to reduce our electricity consumption from fossil fuel by 2025. That means more than 50% power will be through renewable for our auxiliary consumption and other requirements. We are committed for net water positive organization by 2030, then zero waste to landfill status by 2030, net zero by 2047. These are some of the awards. As I told that Platts Global Energy Award, International CSR Award, ATD BEST Award 2024, Brandon Hall Group Human Capital Management Award, SKOCH Gold Award and many more awards are expected in future. Our papers, our contributions have been given awards. They have been recognized by ISGF Innovation Awards 2024 in smart technology, energy transition and Gold Award adoption of artificial intelligence, machine learning, and robotics for our transmission line. For human capital excellence, certificate of excellence in learning and development at SHRM HR Excellence Awards. Thank you very much. Thank you for your patience and hearing. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. That was a really comprehensive and very, very enriching presentation. I now open the floor for questions and answers. [Operator Instructions] Yes, gentleman?

Sir, I'm Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital. My compliments on a year where you have garnered almost 65% share of the TBCB projects. My first question on TBCB is that could you outline how the EBITDA and profit contribution of your TBCB portfolio has moved from FY '23 to FY '24 given now the equity base of operational TBCB projects has increased slightly. That's my first question. If you could also, in relation to TBCB, touch upon the fact that CapEx-to-EBITDA ratios -- or CapEx-to-annuity ratios rather that you have been winning in TBCB over the past few years have shown a deteriorating trend, as in the annuity that you earn for the CapEx for a TBCB project has reduced, if I look at the trend over the last 5, 6 years. How do you read that as implications for the IRR that you would make for the TBCB projects? That's my first question here.

For TBCB projects, when we bid for any project, we are very particular about IRR, and we maintain that by ensuring our timely completion, cost overrun and financial cost is not there, and we try to maintain about 10% to 12%. So it is -- we ensure that. Regarding your EBITDA-related question, I will request Director, Finance to kindly intervene and reply.

The EBITDA margin will be almost equivalent to the RTM. It will be something like 85%, 87% that range will be there because the IRR, like if we say like 10% to 12%, if we say if we maintain -- and there are some projects as a package if you see all the -- like we have 47 TBCBs mostly in construction. Once everything gets completed as a package, if you see, the EBITDA will be a decent one.

Sure. So if you look at the total consolidated profit, the question was what is the total consolidated EBITDA and profit of TBCB subs from FY '23 to '24.

No. As such, we have not worked out separately for this thing. But if you see a stand-alone to consol, it's on the higher side. So naturally, it means the difference between stand-alone and consolidation is only the -- when you see this quarter 4 to quarter 4 and if you see 84% EBITDA, if you see in stand-alone and if it's 87.2%, 87.3%, the consolidated basis, means the EBITDAs in the TBCBs are not alarming.

Sure. Only the thing is that the total profit of subsidiaries, as mentioned in your BSE filing, 43 subsidiaries, the profit that is mentioned has come down on a year-on-year basis versus the last year, the number of subsidiaries and the profit mentioned there. So I was trying to understand what is driving the reduction in subsidiary profit.

No, no. You mean to say profit per subsidiary?

Not profit per subsidiary but the total profit of subsidiaries that you had mentioned in your FY '23 BSE filing for some 37, 38 subs versus 43 subs right now, was a higher number last year as compared to this year.

Last time, actually, we had one Nagapattinam transmission system, which was the first TBCB, which acquired in 2011, and we were actually filing the petition for a change in law for which we got an income of INR 200 crores for all the years together. So that was a one-off item, which we got in the last year. That's why probably if you compare exactly, so it may be like that. Otherwise, if you see -- if you remove that one-off item, as such, I don't think in this availability transmission tariff process, there is no chance of much turbulences.

Just a bookkeeping question. The capitalization that you mentioned for FY '24 on a full year basis, there was an asterisk mark there and it mentioned that there were assets capitalized on finance lease basis that were included there.

That is intrastate.

Yes. That is -- how much is the finance lease on the -- asset capitalization on finance lease basis?

I think it's something like INR 1,500 crores to INR 1,600 crores.

Because when we subtract the net block for FY '24 minus FY '23 and add back the consolidated depreciation, we got a number below INR 60 billion. So maybe that INR 1,500 crores, INR 1,600 crores is explaining this.

Yes. You may be getting a figure of like INR 5,000 crores..

That's why we thought that the numbers were.

Yes, go ahead.

This is Subhadip here from Nuvama Institutional Equities. Firstly, thank you for such a detailed presentation. My first question is with regard to the intrastate model that you mentioned, right, where the MoUs are getting signed and the JVs are getting signed. What quantum -- I remember, I think in your slide, you were mentioning about INR 37,000 crores of potential by FY '32. But would you see this to be more front-ended or back-ended in terms of winning these projects and execution, et cetera?

Can you repeat what is front-ended and...

No. What I mean by that is would this come up in the next couple of years or would this take a longer period of time to come?

Yes. Okay. So the model with Rajasthan is we are going to have about INR 10,000 crores worth transmission projects in next 3 to 4 years. And they have about INR 2,000 crores projects, especially from their solar generation. In next 2 to 3 months, they want to give to us about INR 1,500 crores to INR 2,000 crores. So from 2 to 3 months to next 3 to 4 years, these INR 10,000 crore projects are to be executed or started to be executed. And subsequently, many more projects as per them are in pipeline. And model is that 76:24, that means 76% equity will be done by Power Grid and -- sorry, 26% by them and 74% by Power Grid. Similarly, for Andhra also, they are also targeting INR 10,000 crores because if you see interstate transmission system is coming in a big way. In case interstate transmission system is there and intrastate transmission system is not there, then this power cannot go smoothly to load centers or to the consumer. We require intrastate transmission system. So they cannot wait. Now it is to be done on an immediate basis. So that is why we are getting requests from Orissa. We are getting requests from Andhra. We are getting a request from Assam and UP for setting up JV companies with them.

And these would be on regulated ROE basis? Or...

It will be on regulated, but it will be on state-level regulation. It will not be through CRC. It will be through SERC.

Through the SERC routes..

Yes.

Okay. And the voltage level at which these lines would come up, would be what, around 400 or 220?

There will be some 400 also. Even people are talking about 765kV. But mostly, I will say it will be at 132 and 220kV. There will be some at 400kV level and 765kV.

So bulk of it is 132 and 220.

132 and 220.