Prada S.p.A. (1913) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Prada Group Full Year 2024 Results Presentation. [Operator Instructions] And please also note that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Andrea Bonini, CFO. Please go ahead, sir.

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining Prada Group's Full Year 2024 Results Conference Call. This is Andrea Bonini, Group Chief Financial Officer. I'm delighted to be with you again, and I'm joined by Mr. Patrizio Bertelli, Executive Chairman of the Board; Mr. Andrea Guerra, Group CEO; and Mr. Lorenzo Bertelli, Chief Marketing Officer and Head of CSR. Mr. Patrizio Bertelli will start today with Group highlights for the year, followed by Mr. Lorenzo Bertelli, who will provide an overview of our marketing and communication activities and an update on our ESG initiatives. Mr. Guerra will then give you a business update, and I will provide details on our financial performance before Mr. Guerra signs off with some closing remarks. As a reminder, during today's call, we may discuss forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks, uncertainties and factors beyond our control that could cause the actual outcome and returns to differ materially from such statements. Please refer to the disclaimers included on Slide 2 of our presentation. With that, I will hand over to Mr. Bertelli.

[Interpreted] Welcome to the presentations of the Grupo Prada financial year 2024 results. I'd like to start by providing you with a short update on another year of progress for our Group that kept generating a growth, which is higher than the market average and increased its profitability despite the challenging sector backdrop. We closed 2024 with revenues at EUR 5.4 billion, up 17% at constant exchange rates. EBIT has achieved EUR 1.28 billion with a margin of 23.6%. The Group completed the year with a net cash position of EUR 600 million, so the financials are extremely robust. These results highlight the strength of our brands, which is rooted in our constant attention to product and quality and in the capability to understand the contemporary with a lot of creative dynamics. We continued with a lot of energy and discipline in our store renovation program, and our retail network is now stronger and more productive. Thanks to vertical integration that the Prada Group has always invested in, our factories and our people can grant quality, agility and effectiveness for all of us. These characteristics are even more important now than the market conditions that are less favorable. In 2024, we further strengthened the foundations of our Group and brands. And this is why despite a patchy market backdrop, we are looking at 2025 with a lot of trust, and we continue to work and invest for sustainable long-term growth. Let me now give the floor to Lorenzo Bertelli for an update on marketing and communication programs and on our progresses in sustainability. Thank you.

Thank you, and good afternoon. Over the last year, a comprehensive range of initiatives continued to showcase the distinctive identity and cultural relevance of our brands. The polyhedral DNA of Prada combined with creative dynamics fueled the acclaimed menswear and womenswear fashion shows and successful advertising campaign throughout the year, starring impactful talents such as Scarlett Johansson, Benedict Cumberbatch, Hunter Schafer and Jake Gyllenhaal. Highly anticipated formats such as Prada Mode, Prada Frames and Sound of Prada strengthened the cultural leadership of the brand, while the groundbreaking collaboration with Axiom Space and the battle for the 37th America's Cup pushed the fashion boundaries, leveraging Prada's advanced design, technical know-how and innovative spirit. Moving on to Miu Miu. The brand remained under the spotlight throughout the year, reaching a whole new level of visibility and scale, capitalizing its sharp positioning built on strong and distinctive identity. Miu Miu immediate and reverent creativity resonated in highly-acclaimed fashion show and advertising campaign. The brand scaled up its community and experienced widespread appreciation across all categories and regions. Artistic collaboration, cross-pollination of fashion, cinema and other disciplines and special events have further deepened Miu Miu's connection with culture, nurturing its distinctive voice in the contemporary debate. Now I would like to turn to sustainability, which remains a key focus for the company as we strive to make progress in meeting our commitment to the environment, creating value for our people and playing a strategic role in the cultural debate. Under the planet pillar, consistently with our targets to fight climate change, we are pleased to have further reduced our Scope 1 and 2 greenhouse gases emission by 61% thanks to a continued investment in green energy. To contribute reducing our Scope 3 greenhouse gas emission, we launched an ambitious 3-year plan to convert raw material to lower impact alternatives. We also started working on biodiversity and first assessment was conducted to better understand the impact of our raw material sourcing while a water risk assessment was delivered for the first time across our industry supply chain. Lastly, our commitment to responsible chemicals management continued. On the people pillar, we continue to promote equality and inclusion. We are proud that 46% of our top and senior management team are women. And to support gender equality, work-life balance and professional inclusion, we have launched a new parental policy. To preserve our artisanal know-how, 120 young people were trained in 2024 in the Prada Group Academy and 103 joined the production division. As part of our commitment to culture, we continue to develop our SEA BEYOND educational program in partnership with UNESCO. Around 35,000 students from 56 countries were reached in 2024 through the third SEA BEYOND educational module, which was dedicated to explain the fragile balance between ocean and climate. Our commitment to the project has resulted in an ongoing dialogue with the institution and third parties to spread the message of ocean preservation, as also evidenced, the presence of the SEA BEYOND logo on the mainsail of Luna Rossa batten for 37th America's Cup. Thank you. I will now pass over to Mr. Guerra for the business update.

Lorenzo, thank you, and hello from my side as well. We are happy with this set of numbers, and we are even more happy of these other reached milestones on our evolutionary journey. It has not been easy, but the year has traveled properly from January to December. So many things we yet need to improve, but what is important that we have been able for another year to keep discipline and being consistent. Many different reasons have influenced the growth and the trajectory of the industry in 2024. And by all means, has been in absolute terms, a challenging year. Some regions deteriorated, some consumers' clusters have been more cautious. What we have been trying to do all year long is to continue to foster desirability around our brands, innovate as much as we could on products and put more warmth and excitement in our consumer relationships wherever they were. Our results have been solid, and I think that this has been a good prize for our effort in 2024. If we look to Prada, this brand has had another positive like-for-like year. And it's important to say another because it's now a number of years that Prada has been showing a constant positive like-for-like. And I would also say that we have had a pretty solid year throughout the different months. We only observed a slowdown in China beginning second half of the year. What we also need to consider is that this set of results of Prada in Q4 have come on top of a challenging comp being -- Q4 2023 being very, very strong. So we are also happy about that. And if we look to Q1 2025, again, the comparison for Prada will be challenging. Miu Miu in 2024 was solid and strengthened its foundations. We're happy. We have also been happy to name Silvia Nofri, Miu Miu's new CEO. And obviously, from here on, we will continue our journey together. I have to admit, Miu Miu team is a special team. We have accelerated investments behind Miu Miu in all directions. We have a new design for our stores. We have new people that have joined, people that have been promoted from within, and we are working day and night to make this growth trajectory the most sustainable for the long term. Now Andrea, please give some more details regarding our financial performances. [Foreign Language]

Thank you, Andrea. I would like to start with the key financials on Slide 14. The Group reported net revenues of EUR 5.4 billion, up 17% versus fiscal year '23 at constant FX. This marks the fourth consecutive year of double-digit growth at Group level. Exchange rates had a negative impact of 210 basis points on revenues and the increase at current exchange rates is therefore, plus 15%. Retail sales totaled EUR 4.8 billion, up 18% versus fiscal year '23 and up 39% versus fiscal year '22 at constant FX. EBIT reached EUR 1.28 billion in fiscal year '24 with margin of 23.6%, showing further expansion versus the 22.5% of fiscal year '23, a result delivered in a context of substantial investments behind the brands, not only in terms of communication, but also in our retail network and in the industrial and IT infrastructure. Finally, thanks to the very significant cash generation, we closed the year with a net cash position of EUR 600 million after EUR 462 million of CapEx cash out and EUR 351 million of dividends. Moving on to the next slide. Retail continued to be the key driver of top line performance, up 18% versus fiscal year '23 at constant FX, driven by like-for-like full price sales and with a positive contribution from both average price and full price volumes. The fourth quarter delivered a strong and consistent performance, also up 18%, notwithstanding a more challenging comparison base. Wholesale was up 7% year-on-year and up 4% in Q4. The performance continued to be driven by the DFS channel, while we kept our approach selective with independents. Royalties were up 17% year-on-year, supported by both eyewear and fragrances. Turning to the next slide, retail sales by brand. We are pleased with the performance of our brands as they continue to register above-market growth. Prada delivered a solid plus 4% over the year, driven by full price like-for-like sales. Growth was supported by all categories and genders. Q4 registered a plus 4% in acceleration versus Q3, which was plus 2%. Miu Miu reported a remarkable organic performance, plus 93%, with retail sales in excess of EUR 1.2 billion. Growth was very well spread across all product categories and regions. Strength continued in Q4 with retail sales up 84%. As a result, the brand contribution to Group retail sales increased to 25% against 15% in fiscal year '23. As for Church's, the strategic efforts of the past years continue to keep the brand on a positive top line trajectory, delivering in the year a very good like-for-like performance in the high teens. Moving to the next slide, retail sales by geography. The Group achieved solid growth across all regions. Asia Pacific progressed well over the year at plus 13% year-on-year, showing positive trends across countries despite the more challenging market conditions in the region. The trend improved in Q4 at plus 16%, notwithstanding the higher base, as you will remember that Q4 '23 saw an acceleration in the whole region and Mainland China in particular. Europe grew by 18% over the year and continued solid growth at plus 16% in Q4 as well, supported by healthy local demand and tourist consumption. In the Americas, retail sales were up 9%, showing a further sequential improvement in Q4 at plus 11%. Japan was the best-performing region over the year, up 46% year-on-year, driven by remarkably solid local demand and of course, very positive touristic flow. Q4 also saw an elevated growth, plus 31%, albeit in slight moderation versus Q3. And lastly, the Middle East also delivered a solid performance at plus 26%, including Q4 at plus 30%, fueled by both domestic demand and tourist spending. Turning to the next slide. Gross margin reached 79.8% in fiscal year '24, 60 basis points lower than fiscal year '23, broadly stable if we exclude the FX impact, and we don't expect meaningful movements going forward as well. OpEx increased by 13% at constant FX, of which plus 12% in H2, mostly driven by the variable component and continuous investments behind the brands, which takes multiple forms, including marketing and discretionary-facing activities, store CapEx, hence incremental D&A and digital and IT developments, which impact G&A costs and D&A. The Group generated an EBIT of EUR 1.28 billion, reaching an EBIT margin of 23.6% in further expansion of 110 basis points versus fiscal year '23, notwithstanding the substantial investments I mentioned and the FX drag. Finally, net income reached EUR 839 million, an increase of 25% versus fiscal year '23. CapEx for fiscal year '24 was EUR 493 million as we continued to invest across retail, industrial capabilities and technology. On the retail side, the effort was very significant with 38 gross openings and 90 renovations and relocation projects in the year. We're very pleased with the result and the progress made elevating our network. Aside from retail, we continue to invest to further strengthen our industrial platform and to progress our digital and IT infrastructure. We expect retail and industrial CapEx to see an increase in 2025 as we mindfully shift more focus to new space after years of stability or a slight decline in retail square footage, as we continue to strengthen our industrial footprint both organically and through relatively small but very strategic M&A. Moving to the next slide. Net working capital continued to improve as a proportion of net sales to 15%, thanks to good control of inventory in context of the double-digit growth experienced at Group level. And lastly, net cash position reached EUR 600 million at the end of 2024, thanks to very positive cash generation through the year. The Board of Directors has proposed an increase of dividend per share to EUR 0.164, which compares to EUR 0.137 last year, which would result in a total dividend of EUR 420 million and a payout ratio of 50%. With that, I will hand over to Andrea Guerra for 2025 priorities and closing remarks. Thank you.

[Foreign Language] Looking to 2025, and obviously, we're now into the first 2 months, and we have been pleased with our performance so far, considering the high base of Q1 2024. I think that looking into 2024 numbers, we have been a group that started pretty fast and kept on going through the quarters with the same velocity. So obviously, we have now higher comps to compete against. The industry continues to be challenging and will keep being challenging for another while. Two decades of constant growth with a post-COVID acceleration has to be digested. I don't think there is nothing structural in all of this. There are some geographies like Greater China that still are not accelerating, but are, let's say, keeping the same trends. But there are also other geographies that have been keeping up through even these couple of last years, which have been more challenging in general. Our priorities are unchanged. Our ambition is unchanged. And we are working as hard as we can to generate solid, sustainable and above-market growth. It will require great effort. We will make our own mistakes. We will have some ups and downs. But I think that all in all, we are ready to overcome another not-easy year for the industry. Having said all of this, I thank you for listening. I turn back to the operator. And as usual, we are happy to answer to your questions. [Foreign Language]

[Operator Instructions] We are now going to proceed with our first question. The questions come from the line of Edouard Aubin from Morgan Stanley.

So my first question, Andrea Guerra, just to be specific, you mentioned kindly that you are satisfied with how the trading had started at the beginning of the year. So when you look at the Prada brand, you grew about 4% at constant currency in 2024. Any specific reason to believe that growth should slow down this year given that the environment in theory should be a bit less adverse in '25 than in '24? You said it's still challenging, but I guess some people expect the environment to be maybe a little bit less challenging. So when we look at the headwinds and tailwinds for the Prada brand, again, any reason to believe that growth should slow down? That's my first question.

So regarding Prada, we are pretty confident that we can keep on with our growth trajectory with Prada. As I was saying before, Q4 2023, Q1 2024 have been pretty fast for Prada. So I wouldn't be surprised to see something lower in Q1, but something higher in Q2, Q3 and Q4. So -- and I'm never so worried about ups and downs in these kind of periods. But what I see is a trend and the trend is solid, and I don't see anything against that during 2025.

Got it. And then my second and final question is, Mrs. Prada indicated to the press this week that the Prada Group was one of the companies looking at Versace. There was also some press report this morning indicating that the Prada Group could eventually also be looking potentially at acquiring Jimmy Choo. So can you confirm if indeed you are also looking at the Jimmy Choo brand? And then related to that, in the early 2000s, Prada proceeded -- obviously, you were not working there, but Prada proceeded to the -- a number of acquisitions with various successes. So in the hypothetical case in which you would proceed to a relatively material acquisition, what can you tell us, please, what has changed and why Prada would be in a better shape to make an acquisition?

Andrea can take care of this.

Edouard, I'll just say that we don't comment on rumors, on the first part of your question. On the second part of your question about what is different in hypothetical cases, I think a number of things are different. I mean, many, many years have passed, a different company, I'd say, different scale, different team, so many differences. And I will leave it at that.

We are now going to proceed with the next question. The questions come from the line of Chiara Battistini from JPMorgan.

My first question is on your outlook on profitability for fiscal '25. We come from a year of very strong profitability expansion for the year and for the second half. So I was wondering if you could share your thoughts on how you're thinking about margins this year, please? That's the first question.

[Foreign Language] Andrea Bonini. The -- look, I mean, the investing behind our brands will remain the priority. We will continue to invest in marketing and retail initiatives to drive long-term brand desirability, meaning that we will not cut back on marketing to protect short-term margins as we've always been saying. D&A, fair to say that we continue to increase because we have accelerated over the past years investments across all areas. And we want to be as disciplined as we can on other costs, I mean, from labor to G&A. So bottom line, ideally, we would like to maintain a trajectory of progressive, even if moderate margin expansion year-over-year, but the priority is growth and scale to generate more meaningful operating leverage in the mid-long term. Thank you.

And my second question is on the Americas region. I was wondering if you could share with us any color on how you're thinking about the opportunity in Americas, in North America, specifically for both Prada and Miu Miu. And recently, there have been a bit of concerns that the American consumers, after a good festive season in Q4 might have started to slow this year in recent weeks. So any comment specifically on, well, Americas' medium term and also the recent trading you've seen on the ground would be super helpful.

So we have seen America going pretty fast between 2017 and 2022, probably more than doubled the American market. Then we have seen a year of consolidation, which was 2023. We have seen a year of 2024, which I cannot definitely judge in terms of a positive sign, but we have seen a lot of positive signs. That is we have seen accelerations, we have seen some decelerations. We are investing in the United States, we are really refurbishing our stores. It's one of those few places where we have restarted our -- the building of a team from -- I don't want to say from scratch, but we really restarted a team for Prada. And obviously, thinking about as well our Manhattan investment, it means that we care about the next years in the United States. So I'm pretty positive about short term and medium term in the United States, but this is a period of nonconstant growth. So there can be, again, quarters or moments or months where you got a little bit of decelerations and then an acceleration. I'm not so into a kind of daily tracking of what's going on. I am confident on North America.

We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of Susy Tibaldi from UBS.

Can you give us a bit of detail in terms of the growth that you've seen with the various nationalities in Q4, mostly Chinese, Americans and Europeans and any further detail you could provide? And also if there was any difference in trends between Prada and Miu Miu. Of course, with Miu Miu, we're talking about incredible growth rates, so they're not exactly comparable, but perhaps in terms of directionally, if you have seen certain regions that perhaps have reacted even stronger with products from Prada versus Miu Miu or vice versa? This is my first question.

Andrea Bonini. I'll answer the question the way we usually do, which is with reference to Prada and leaving aside Miu Miu. And by the way, there are no -- apart from the numbers, right, being as you said, I mean, very positive, but there are no significant other differences that we would call out. So with reference to Prada, Chinese in Q4 was low single-digit positive versus a slightly negative in Q3. And therefore, they were low single-digit positive in the year as a whole. The situation again in Q4 wasn't dramatically different in the sense that they continue to hover around 0, and that's the environment we're seeing. On Europeans, it was a solid -- very solid year, as we know, in the mid-single digit and no differences in Q4, which was at that level. North Americans, Andrea just answered the question in -- with reference to the U.S., but also in terms of the demographic, I mean, in terms of the cluster was improving in Q4 to high single digit versus a low single digit in Q3. And then the last one I would call out is Japanese, which was double digit in the year and in Q4 as well, albeit in a progressive moderation as we've been expecting and it's normal to see.

Very clear. And when it comes to -- you already mentioned a little bit about the start of the year for the Prada brand that you would expect perhaps a little bit lower growth given the very tough comparison base. But more broadly, when you look at the overall market and the trends that we are seeing -- because obviously, we're starting -- we had a very good Q4 as an industry. But I think there has been a little bit this argument that perhaps the gifting, that there has been a little bit of [ stand ] concentrated around the gifting season. And now that the season is over, perhaps the trends may start to slow down again. Is this something that you're seeing? Regardless if -- obviously you're very [ conflated ], but are you seeing again a little bit of more hesitancy from the consumer to go to the stores? Are you seeing traffic that has again become a little bit weaker? Is there any indicators that would suggest to you in the various reasons whether we can remain confident or actually -- some of this consumer confidence that we saw in Q4 may already start to fade?

It's Lorenzo Bertelli. I'll try to take your answer. So on one side, I agree with you in the sense that the gifting season is much stronger for some brands than the others. Generally speaking, investment -- the competition is much higher. So I agree the fact that the gifting season may not be 100% honest in what is the real state of the market. Because there is overall a bigger investment, somehow consumers feel themselves like obliged to buy something. And -- but I will say that overall, the strategy of our Group, we never been, let's say -- I will not put in the strategy of our Group like as top investors during the gifting season in the sense that we usually typically use to tend some -- to lose some market share during that period because strategically, we believe it's better to have a more balanced investment during the year. So I will say that generally, maybe this kind of -- you notice it, but for us, for sure, it was going to be less than the sector overall. I hope I answered to your question. Thank you.

We are now going to proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of Erwan Rambourg from HSBC.

Congratulations on a pretty fantastic 2024. My first question is on the U.S. Over the past 2, 3 weeks, we've seen a bit of macro deterioration, equity markets, crypto stress around tariffs. You seem to be less exposed to the U.S. than some of your peers, so maybe starting from a lower base. Do you think this macro deterioration can actually weigh? Or do you think that the momentum that you're seeing can actually make you not immune, but possibly more protected from the macro environment that we're seeing slightly deteriorating?

It's very complicated to answer to such a question. I mean, you have a kind of everyday analysis of financial markets, and so I think consumer reactions are not that fast or so reactive. So what I said, I repeat, I see an overall improvement of the American market during the past 15 months, but I have seen some accelerations and some decelerations. I would like to say that in unstable periods, this happens. Let's see where it goes at the end because this will not last for long. So it's not that for the next 3 years, we're seeing ups and downs. At a certain stage, we will see a kind of trend going upwards or downwards. But today, I repeat what I said before. It's not daily, it's not weekly. I mean, so many things have happened in the United States in the last 3 months from purely political, geopolitical, from fires, no -- whatever else. So I would keep a kind of faith today.

Okay. And then maybe just a question on Miu Miu. Very impressive recruitment. And I think you still have a low base in terms of stores, but you've moved from EUR 600 million to EUR 1.2 billion in sales. What's the dream? What can we dream for, for the next, I don't know, 3 or 5 years? I know your new CEO just arrived, so probably you don't have a 3-year plan just yet. But what types of -- is there a limit to how far this brand can go?

Let me say that we are not dreamers. So we are trying to achieve the most sustainable growth possible. How? So first of all, it's obvious that this kind of growth cannot continue for long. On the other side, we are trying constantly to balance our product offer so that we don't have unique products moving in certain directions, but trying constantly to keep a balance. And this is what we are trying to do all the time, working as hell on locals, working as hell on people who repeat and come back to the brand. This is what we are trying to do. This is what we have to do, not necessarily we do it always right. And not necessarily this kind of growth will last forever, and we know it.

We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of Oriana Cardani, Intesa Sanpaolo.

The first one concerns the gap profitability between Miu Miu and Prada. Has the gap between the 2 brands narrowed in 2024? And what is your ambition for Miu Miu's profitability in midterm?

So in terms of profitability and gap, we are a company of 2 brands. Miu Miu is making its way also because Prada is there. So I would not love to imagine the difference from that. We have built an infrastructure, an industrial infrastructure, a consumer infrastructure, a services infrastructure because Prada was there. So Miu Miu profitability has substantially increased even because when you have this kind of growth, it's more complicated to catch up with the costs. So it has increased and increased substantially. We remain with the same objective and mission. We want to grow. We want to grow in a sustainable manner. We will continue to foster, to invest, to nurture our brands, our creativity, our products, our store, our relationship with our consumers the best we can. Then obviously, if we are good in this and we have a scale effect, we will try to retain and increase our profitability. This is the logic and will not change.

I understand. My second question is about the Prada brand. Which categories do you [indiscernible] for Prada?

Your question was cut. I didn't understand nothing. If you can repeat...

Yes, sure. Sorry. The question is about Prada and in particular, which product categories grew the fastest in 2024?

Generally speaking, we have seen a very balanced growth for sure. Ready-to-wear is the one that grew the most. But I would say, generally speaking, it was quite balanced.

We are now going to proceed with the next question. And the questions come from the line of Thomas Chauvet from Citi.

I have one question, please, on the step-up in retail expansion that you mentioned earlier, Andrea Bonini. Can you give us the number of store openings planned for Prada and Miu Miu this year? I remember this was expected to drive low single-digit percent space contribution for Prada and 10%, 15% for Miu Miu. Is that still ballpark the assessment you have? And how long is the store rollout plan going to last for? I mean is it 2, 3 years? Is it towards 2027 or beyond?

The numbers are -- Thomas, the numbers are the ones we spoke about before. Bear in mind that there may be some closures as well having an impact in the same way that maybe in the end, be something less, being something more, depending also on the bandwidth and capabilities we had to deal with the different projects. I mean, for sure, in 2024, there was a very substantial effort on retail side with also a significant number of gross openings that were entirely sort of balanced in terms of net number by some additional streamlining of smaller locations, less relevant locations. And as we said, I mean, starting from this year from 2025, that is less evident. And look, I think it's probably fair to say that 2025 is indeed a year where we expect to see a bit more space than what we've seen over the past few years. Well, we actually didn't see any. And '26 is -- feels a long time away at this point, but probably similar. And at some point, I mean, if we talk about medium, longer term, yes, I mean, tapering.

We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of Melania Grippo from BNP Paribas.

This is Melania Grippo from BNP Paribas. I would like to ask if you please could update us on the level of sales per square meter by brand. I remember in the past, you commented that Miu Miu was not that far from Prada. Now at the end of the year, could you please give us a little bit more detail?

So when we see that basically, we have grown like-for-like, I mean, it's obvious that the growth of Prada has been the growth we have seen in the revenue and the growth of Miu Miu is what we have seen in the revenue. So it means that the productivity of Miu Miu has substantially accelerated. And this is also the reason why we are opening some stores on Miu Miu. And we need them, traffic needs them, productivity needs them because on one side, it's fantastic sometimes to see very high productivity, but it's also very important that we are capable to offer a proper service. So this is why in certain cities, we are trying to fill up some gaps. And this can take us during the year to have some stores more in Miu Miu.

We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of Linda Huang from Macquarie.

My first question is regarding for the balance sheet, because the -- previously management talking about that, we probably will have some strategic investment. And right now, we roughly have a net finance position around EUR 600 million. So I want to know that if we have any more like investment in 2025, how we think about the capital allocation? Are we thinking about to have a certain gearing up? Or we were thinking about like the equity fundraising? So that's my first question.

Linda, sorry, the last part of your question wasn't entirely clear to me, about the equity fundraising. If you can repeat that last part.

Yes. I'm just asking whether we consider about more like a gearing or we are thinking about the equity fundraising, if we want to have more like investment this year?

Well, look, let me step back from -- first, on first part of your question around CapEx. And that also, I think, says a lot in terms of where we're going to deploy it, meaning we expect -- as I said, I mean, in my presentation, I mean, we expect retail and industrial CapEx to see an increase in 2025 because we want to mindfully shift more focus to new space after years of stability or slight decline in retail square footage. And very importantly, as we continue also to strengthen our industrial footprint, both organically and as we've done in the past as well through relatively small but very strategic M&A. So CapEx-wise, I would think fiscal year '25 to be in and around, say, the EUR 550 million. I mean, over the past years, we've been investing significantly behind the brands and making up in a way also for the past. And we invest in our brands to support the top line growth. We've grown significantly over the past years, and we've been investing to support this, and we'll continue to do so. So that's priority #1, as we always say. And with this level of investments and as also seen in 2024, we've also been able to pay what we believe is an attractive level of dividend, which we also announced for the current year, and that's it, frankly. Next question or follow-up.

Yes. And the second one, I want to ask about the category because we can see that more and more, the brands, they focus on the hard luxury, including watches and jewelry. So I just want to know that what is the category, how important it is to our overall sales? And will we be more aggressively seeking these 2 like hard luxury category?

So obviously, we are focused on specific categories that are very well known. On the other side, it's now 2 years that we have started our journey in fine jewelry, and we started our journey on home. We are happy on how the 2 categories are evolving. And I don't think I need to add anything else. I think it's -- they're going, they're growing. We are still representing small numbers compared to the industry and compared to ourselves as well, but they are growing, and they are significant today to attract either our own consumers in different moments of their life or new consumers. This is why we are doing it, and this is why we are evolving it. And we have also enriched our creativity team in fine jewelry in the recent times.

Congratulations on your good results.

[Foreign Language] I would take another couple of questions. So we can go to the next question, please.

We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the question comes from the line of Louise Singlehurst from Goldman Sachs.

Many congratulations on such a good performance in a challenging environment. The one question I had, which is left, please, just on the pricing. You've talked about, obviously, the moving parts of the growth profile as we look out to '25 and '26 in terms of space. Volumes obviously is a big question mark. But what can you tell us about pricing and any room for maneuver on pricing, both certainly in 2025 and where that pricing might be across the architecture of the offer?

So what is good about our brands is that since we have come from a little bit more challenging periods, I think that we have pushed a little bit our prices, but nothing extreme. If you look to our price ranges today are well balanced. I'm talking about Miu Miu and I'm talking about Prada. What we have is an unbelievable opportunity upwards. There are price ranges that we are not really touching today, so we have an opportunity there. We need the consumer for those kind of price ranges. We need the store infrastructure for those kind of price ranges, and we are ready for that. So we are pulling up our price architecture from this point of view, which does not mean to increase prices but to have a better mix in what we sell. I repeated and I will continue to repeat that we have not changed our entry prices. So that is the most important part, and that has been the most relevant action that we have taken in the last years. The entry price is critical, is important, then you can stretch upwards as much as you can. Thank you.

We are now going to proceed with the last question. And it's from the line of Chris Gao from CLSA.

This is Chris Gao from CLSA. I have only one question. So this is related to the Chinese cluster. We are very happy to see that 4Q has already turned positive and the CNY is actually not bad for the entire luxury sector. So just wondering for the customer Group behind, what is the key driver? Is it still the VIC driving the recovery in 4Q as well as the continued performance in CNY? Or it's more mid-level consumer picking up that drives the recovery? And secondly, it's also related on the clienteling strategy among different groups heading into 2025. Are we still planning to do more in terms of VIC? Or actually compared with 2024, we will start to see more planning to pick up more mid-level or even aspirational customers in the year of 2025?

So my answer would be the following. We have seen during 2024, a drop in consumer -- in Chinese consumer confidence and I would say, Chinese traffic in China. I wouldn't consider the Q4 really relevantly different from Q3 or Q1 2025, which inside, there is a good news and a bad news. The good news is that it's not deteriorating; the bad news, it's not improving. What do we see today in terms of Chinese consumers, we see Chinese wishing to buy on events, and we see Chinese wishing to buy during their touristic activities. These are the 2 main things apart VIC that were, will, are important parts of our clienteling, of our activities, of our events, and we will never give up.

Okay. We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of James Grzinic from Jefferies.

[Foreign Language] Glad I managed to squeeze in right at the end. I had 2 quick ones, please. The first one, can you update us on your thinking on a dual listing, please? And secondly, I appreciate you don't comment on media speculation, but I was wondering whether you can talk us through the criteria that you apply when you consider acquisitions, please?

So regarding dual listing, there is no progress. Regarding investment strategy, I think that we have been always very, very clear. On one side, we are 100% totally focused on our brands from day to night and night to day. On the other side, you never decide when things come around. When things come around, you always look at them. I don't think that you need to be arrogant not to look at them, and that's it. Thank you. And I wish to thank all of you, and see you soon, and talk to you soon. [Foreign Language]

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you, and have a great day. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]