Premier African Minerals Limited (PREM.L) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and a special welcome to everybody who has joined. I do see we've got quite a few people who have joined, and I'm very grateful for that. I'm at the Zulu Mine site in Zimbabwe at the moment and dependent on satellite internet. So I do hope that we're not going to have any inadvertent interruptions on this. If we do, please just don't, don't, don't log out or disappear, it will restore itself in time. I'm just having a look, I see we still have quite a few people joining us. And I'm going to ask [indiscernible], who I think is on the call. She'll just give me a ring and tell me if there's any issues on the sound, I don't think there should be. Okay. So having said that, I have received -- we have received a huge number of questions, requests and so on for items to discuss. And it's not going to be possible to address every person's individual -- excuse me a moment, I am sorry. Okay. No, that's fine. Thank you. It's just a message. Confirming that I can be heard and I'm very pleased about that. So thanks to [indiscernible]. So as I was saying, there have been a huge number of questions and so on from many of you, which I'm very grateful for. I think it's important that we should have this and that we should attempt to address them as best as possible. So I'm not going to be able to address every individual question. I'll try to put this together into a more structured presentation and to try and deal with it on that basis. So basically, the elements that I'm going to talk through are going to be the plant status, and that's going to include quite a wide array of issues associated with the plant, for example, exactly where it is, what the issues are at the moment, new kit that's in, what it cost us. I'll discuss liability and recovery a lot of questions in regard to that. Way forward, ongoing interim fixes and what we're doing at the moment. I'll discuss production status. I will discuss the Mutare project. I'll go through questions related to cash previously raised and any that we raised at the moment and the use in application thereof. That will also cover things like historic costs and spend and to quite a large extent, ongoing OpEx and any CapEx if there is and so on. I will move on to questions related to our offtake partner. Then I will move on to some other suggestions in regard to possible open offer was 1 sale of project and so on. There have been a fair few comments on that. And finally, I will deal with myself, although that's not always very easy, but I will do the best I can to deal with me and where I'm going. So if I may, and I'm just going to go back and I'm going to go back to where I said I was going to start from, which is the existing plant status. Now the plant is as has been seen and I'll let go a couple of little video clips recently that show you the broad elements of the plant. It's all there. It's intended to produce spodumene as we all know, and we know what the tonnage is, the anticipated production is and so on. Now where I want to start with this, I want to try and just sketch the issues and problems that we have at the moment and trying to describe this in a little bit more detail. Now the previous contractor who is no longer at this site, was at site as much to provide the plant and machinery as to provide the installation and the commissioning and therefore, the operation of this plant, get our people trained, get them up to speed, and allow us to take over and to ensure that the plant was able to meet the throughput expectations. There is no process guarantee and there never was. Not within the time frame, but there were certain very clearly defined expectations and requirements from the plant. A very good example of this was the extent to which the material ore body had to be milled to allow for recovery in the flotation circuit. And that was one of the earlier problems that we had, where the equipment provided simply was not fit for purpose. There was absolutely no issue of it. Now subsequent to that, there have been various fixes. And we have, as I said, the ongoing installation and commissioning of these. Now just coming back on commissioning, which is what the previous contractor was intended to do. And the provision of plant and equipment capable of meeting the throughput, in other words, design there are -- there is a fundamental difference between the two. Now sitting at Zulu, we believe [ SCADA ] is accepted, and I'll discuss that just now. We believe that the plant and equipment is of a very good standard. The flotation side is very competently built. The reagent plant is very competently built. The [ mill ] that we now have installed is an excellent piece of kit. So there are many components that are very good pieces of machinery. But what the contractor had to do was to link these in a way that allowed the [ mill ] to function and allowed material to move between them. And there have been a number of fundamental problems that we believe are design related in terms of the movement of material. And a good example of this would be providing a pump, for example, that did not have the capacity or ability to pump the designed amount of material or building a pipeline that was inadequate to carry a slurry. And due to a -- or placing or using a pump for example with -- that has a variable speed and intermittently stops when it's pumping a slurry. And the best example I can give you of this is if you take a glass of water and put a whole lot of soil in it, stir it up, it looks like mud, put it one side and let it stand and almost immediately, it starts settling. Now this is what happens when you vary the speed of a slurry that is being pumped through a plant or allow it to stop without proper controls and so on. Now those to me are design-related issues. They're not necessarily commissioning-related issues. So we have a fundamental disagreement in terms of what's commissioning, what's design. And we had found ourselves in the situation where we had difficulty in moving forward and resolving problems of interface between different components because we were at much having an argument as to whether this was something that needed to be redesigned in terms of the interface between the 2 pieces of machinery or something that's simply needed to be commissioned. In other words, commission collected -- connected, switched on, run at its designed speed and so on and so forth. So that led to a lot of the breakdown that meant that the previous contractor needed to leave and that we should continue ourselves. There are many other examples of this. And some of them have relevance as we go forward. I've mentioned some of the slurry lines and some of the pumps and design there. But if I come to control systems, the system control and data acquisition systems, SCADA as it's often referred to, we have 2 for a relatively small plant. We should have 1, the 2 are not integrated. We have components sitting in 1 SCADA provided by 1 manufacturer using different software to one provided by the other. We do not even have consistency in color coding that generally, when you look at an electric wire, you'll see red, you'll see blue, you'll see gray, you'll see whatever it might be. And there are industry standards on these things. But when an industry standard for color coding is not adequately utilized, then there are questions raised in terms of the original design. And often, unfortunately, the extent of knowledge and experience associated with it. So having said all of these things, had I and the Prem team had perfect time at site a year ago before we had site. Much of this would have been avoided. But it is there. It's identified. I have now had a separate -- a major independent contractor at site who have done quite an extensive revisit and have helped me to satisfy myself as to what is a design and what is a commissioning issue. And in many of these instances, they have now come out in full support of the position that we had, which I think was important. At the same time, where there are areas that we can improve, fix and so on, we will go ahead and we will deal with them. I must say that the general consensus, however, is that the actual kit, the components, the major components that we have installed in this plant are generally of a very good standard. And that when we resolve some of the issues I've been speaking about, and these are ongoing, some take a day, some take a little longer. But these -- this is nothing that is sitting and requiring any extensive CapEx at all, it requires time and the costs associated with the time. So I hope that has explained some of those issues. I think while I'm talking about new kit in relation to other kit that's come on, I think that I should just have a discussion in regard to the sorters upfront. And let me say that whilst there is a meeting of the minds between our previous contractor and ourselves, when it comes to things like the original mill that was installed where there can be no basis of any dispute. There is not necessarily a meeting of the minds when it comes to the sorters. So I'm going to just briefly describe that the basis of the early design was that ore sorting should occur to remove waste and other gangue material within the pegmatite. Now it was very clear and it has been set out and spelled out in various items of correspondence exactly what this was. The use of XRT was recommended that this is what we should be using. We were assured that this would remove all of this and in the presentations that we have and in the original document schedules, this is what it says. Unfortunately, the XRT cannot remove all of the waste. It removes some of it and some fairly significant parts of it, but it does not remove some of those that are low in iron. So what we have done for the moment to mitigate this, and we are mitigating this successfully is that we are applying much more rigid in situ kit operations so that when we mine, we are avoiding to the best extent possible, any waste coming out of our pit. Secondly, we have a team that is active on the ROM pads that does visual inspection of the ore on the ROM pad. And wherever there is any significant waste, it is removed. So we are comfortable that the ore going into the plant at the moment is good. It's not a final long-term solution and we are in the process of having extensive additional test work done on the -- on a range of sorters. This is being done by Anzaplan. It's largely paid for from a previous credit that they held and they will be using 3 other manufacturers, including TOMRA, who provides some very good laser color-based sorters and 2 others. And this will be managed, run and dealt with by Anzaplan who will then provide a further report at some future time. But that is not a significant issue in terms of the operation at the moment. We're running and we're fine. So that's in terms of the sorters for now. While we're talking about plant, I have a number of questions related to the cost of the new equipment that is here. And in terms of that, it was fairly clear in our negotiations with the previous contractor that the cost to put in the new [ mill ] and to replace the screens that were not fit for purpose either to deal with all of this was a cost that they could not bear. And at the end of the day, we concluded an advanced loan agreement and that the settlement of this would then be computed and agreed if we could once the plant was in operation and producing. Now what has happened at the moment is that there is no final agreement in terms of this. The contractors view is that they have provided a lot of other services in terms of installation, commissioning and so on, and that they believe they've offset in full. So they effectively are saying that they don't owe us anything. And we don't owe them anything. We're not entirely in agreement. But I am not going to take time of our staff at this stage to try and further debt discussion. That is one that can come in the fairly near future as soon as we are through this phase that we are in at the moment. So that's in terms of debt. We don't owe them as far as we are concerned, we feel that maybe they owe us quite a bit. But we'll see. We'll see what happens with debt. So that covers the liability recovery and so on and so forth and how we managed to go about this. I might just add that in the original proposal from the contractor, it was originally proposed that this plant would be on a modular basis as per their proposal documents and as such, would be "pilot plant". Now all of that changed along the way. And the very earliest indication of that change was when we were approached and told that it was no longer possible to factory assemble and test every bit of this plant at the site and at the yard of the contractor, which is what was originally signed for and set out that this could not be done. And that this would have to be built on site. Now that -- and we'll come back to monetary issues a little later, that in itself, led to a significant change in budget. It became apparent that the civil's were going to become much more complex and time consuming. And some of you may recall the issues associated with all the additional civil's work that had to be undertaken. It was extensive. And all of this goes back to that fundamental change. So to try and refer to this plant, as a pilot plant under those circumstances alone, let alone everything else associated with it is completely ridiculous. There's no more a pilot plant than flight to the movements, it's a substantial plant. As I think most of us have seen from the video clips. Okay. So just moving a little bit on from that. I've mentioned the additional test work now on the front end that we're busy doing. But it's not holding back anything to do with how we're operating at the moment. In terms of interim fixes, just supporting what I've said about the feed is that apart from what we're doing in the pits, during the period of time when spodumene prices had skyrocketed, there was all sorts of a artisanal/illegal activity all over Zimbabwe. It was a case of where somebody saw some white rock that looked like a pegmatite, they go and start chopping it out, hoping that somebody will run along and buy it from them at a large price. Well, that led to a lot of "early exploration". I think that's complementing these guys, but nevertheless. And a lot of discovery and a lot of this was within our EPO. Now at the moment, we have -- we are attempting to an application for renewal of the EPO, but we have also launched a number of mining claims within that area. And in some of these mining claims, where some of these artisanal workers have been, there is some very good ore. And one of these is actually being exploited at the moment on our behalf by one of these former artisanal miners. Now basically, what he's doing is he's got a team of -- I think he's got more than 100 people working there. He's exposed this extent of this pegmatite and what he takes out is [ hand cobbed ] between this team of 100 people. And that ore is also being delivered to us at Zulu. Now the combination of that and what's coming out of our own pit means that we are able to put into our plant some very good grade material and some really nice and clean material at the moment. So we are comfortable with the ore that we are feeding at this stage. In terms of some other plant enhancements and so on, there will be -- there will, I think, be a lot of development as we go forward. Bear in mind on Tantalum that the contractor originally provided the Tantalum circuit. But the Tantalum circuit couldn't work because they installed a magnet, what is referred to as LIMS or low-intensity magnetic separator. They had misunderstood, misinterpreted the original Anzaplan test work, and the unit cannot remove the so-called paramagnetic components that would include the Tantalum. So all this low-intensity magnet can do is remove iron, a lot of it introduced because of the ball milling system from the process at this stage. Now as that is resolved and as we can bring in a Tantalum recovery circuit, that becomes one byproduct. The second thing that we need to remember is that the plant design, as it is at the moment, takes a fines fraction. At the moment, we're back to a minus 8 mill fines fraction, and this is set aside in the stockpile. It represents 20% to 25% of the ore that is feed. Now the reason for that is this could not be easily sorted through the sorters as installed, but with the very clean ore we have, that lower and smaller component can quite easily become further feed into the plant. And in that regard, it's free because it's already mined and already paid for. But we are looking to perhaps put that through a simple DMS circuit, and the reason for that is to make sure that in those funds, we are not getting any contaminant at all. So that is some further test work underway. Material is already with a potential supply of the DMS who has expressed an interest in placing that unit at Zulu on a basis of no CapEx to ourselves but on a shared revenue basis of some sort, subject to negotiation and subject to completing that test work. So that's quite an exciting step forward, and that's near term. In terms of the overall size of the resource, we are -- we believe and we are comfortable that Zulu will support a much bigger operation than what it is at this time. So is that an additional extensions to the existing floating plant? It may be. It may very well be, and I'm going to touch on that again a little bit later. So production status at the moment, we have shown that we are able to produce a good grade spodumene concentrate. The plant can do that, and it does do it. It is not doing anything like the quantities that we expected to be able to do. And until we can ramp up the production rate, I'm not prepared to give commitments in terms of when a first shipment would be. We have already gone through the processes that are necessary for export. I believe that the first export permit has been applied for, and I understand that, that has a 3-week lead time on it. So in summary, we produced a very good SC6 grade. We are not hitting anywhere near really the targets that we have and that we have set ourselves for production level. I believe we've identified fairly clearly where those shortcomings are coming from and it is a combination of continuity of operating the system. In other words, the plant is intended to run continuously for 22 days a month. Now we are not anywhere near that. We're not really able to run much longer than a day at the moment. But each one of the issues that leads to a slowdown or a stalling or whatever it is, is dealt with, and that is one of the beauties that we have. We have a highly cooperative arrangement between ourselves and between the OEM that provided the flotation equipment we deal with each one of the issues as they arise. We have detailed analysis, analytical work underway in our laboratory. And all of that supports the fact that we are moving, and I think we will move very rapidly in the early part of next week to a point where we start getting closer to the actual production levels that we must achieve. So in summary, we know the plant can produce SC6 in a good grade. We are not at the production levels, we need to be at the moment. We understand the process is required for export and application has or will be made for first shipments. And during the course of the next week, we anticipate that we will start getting a better control on the level of production, the amount of spodumene that we are producing from the feed. In that context, I may just say that the feed going through to the flotation section. And as of this morning, as an example, of the feed going into spodumene flotation section for those times the plant ran approximately 15% to 16% of the solid was spodumene. Now if we're able to feed the plant at the design capacity, which is 37 tonnes per hour, and we're able to provide 15% of that in spodumene, okay? 15% of that is what -- this is probably about 5 to 6 tonnes of pure spodumene. Now that converts pure spodumene, 1 tonne of that converts to a little more than a tonne or 25% more than a tonne. 1 tonne, 250 kilograms of the SC6. So even at this stage, we are seeing adequate spodumene going into the plant for the plant to be able to deliver the tonnage of SC6 that is expected. So we're just in closing of that. We are moving in the right direction strongly, and we expect to see some significant progress during the course of this coming year. Okay. Moving away a little bit now from Zulu and Zulu plant, I've had a number of questions related to Mutare. What happened with the Mutare is that our previous joint venture partner decided that they wanted to run away and chase copper. And they disposed of their interest in Mutare. It wasn't something that was done cooperatively or necessary with our full knowledge and consent although I don't have a problem. It was disposed of to a Dubai-based company, the Dubai-based companies principle is Sam Jonah, with whom I have worked previously. And we are in a negotiation together with that Dubai-based company to see how we are going to take Mutare forward. There are alternatives on the table and probably the most appealing to me, which has been the case for some time, is that, that Mutare project should go into a separate listed vehicle on AIM or wherever it may be and that whatever PREM is paid or holds in terms of shares within that entity that should be distributed to our shareholders. So that is what I am pushing very hard to achieve. It is not achieved at the moment. Had it been fully achieved, that would have been in an RNS to that effect. But those are the facts of the matter. That is where it is. There is some strong interest from outside of our immediate partners to fund the exploration and development of Mutare, which I think supports our views that it's a great project. And were we not in the situation we're in at the moment, we're having to focus almost exclusively on Zulu, that would be receiving the same level of exploration support as to once the case with Zulu. Speaking personally, I'm very happy with where we are and with the association with the principle of this Dubai-based entity, with whom I've previously worked. If one goes back in my history, I think you'll see that we have. So I'm very comfortable, and I believe that, that will be something that will be good for Premier as we go forward. Okay. Moving on from that one, I'm moving into cash that we may raise. I'm going to move into OpEx issues, historic use of funds and so on and so forth. Now let me just make a point that in the public domain already is our projected mine gate cost, our transport cost. PREM's overhead is a known fact from audited accounts. And I think that the Zulu OpEx can be extrapolated to quite a large extent when you start looking at mine gate cost because really, I mean, the mine gate cost is their OpEx. So in case you multiply that by the tonnes and you get to the number. With a small exception, and that is that recently, we had to ramp up the mining dramatically and dramatically increased our mining cost because of the expanded stripping ratio, which did cause us a few problems earlier in the year. We're still suffering from some of those. But from a long-term perspective, that will be very good. So I think those numbers are pretty well there. It is what it is. The question has been asked is if we were to place out at a reasonable price, shares that in respect of which we hope there is in this application, would that money be enough? Well, in my view, it will. And further in my view, I certainly don't want to run around and just going to place out everything immediately at whatever it may be. I don't think that's what is necessary. I think what is necessary is to deal with some of the accumulated trade liabilities or what we call the net or trade payables that have developed in the last couple of months and be able to meet the mining and OpEx costs associated with this next month or so. Now I am hopeful but it's a future event, and I'm not going to make any promises at all, and I don't want anybody quoting me and saying I did. It is my fervent hope that during the coming weeks that we will see an adequate change in this production status are sufficient to put us in a position to meet a shipment as soon as the export documentation is approved, and we are able to do so. And we do know that once we're at that stage, we have the ability or have been assured that we have the ability to secure financing against that material. In other words, there will not necessarily be any delay from the time of being able to have material in stock and ready for export and the time of getting access to money. So on that basis, I am hopeful that we're not going to have to raise the extent that some have projected we may have to. It is a future event. And I really -- I can't say anything more about it other than that. In terms of historic use of funds, I think it's important to note that Zulu overall in terms of what's in our books at the moment has cost to north of $70 million. I actually think it's a little bit more. And I don't think that anybody else is going to replace it easily for the same price. I think that what PREM has achieved from what is really a very low budget is quite extraordinary. I apologize for that. I'm trying to have a glass of water from some time. Excuse me a moment. Sorry, this Zimbabwean bottle doesn't have a flat bottom. So that's pretty well what it's cost us. It's been a lot of money. The ongoing, you can extrapolate yourselves from the numbers that are in the public domain already. In terms of where that money is that's the total in terms of how and where it's gone, again, in the public domain is the payment for the plant and equipment. There is a further "loan" to the previous contractor of $4-odd million. The charges that we have incurred in respect of assembly and "commissioning" from OEMs, has far exceeded the original budgets and the original estimates. And the original budgets and estimates were based on the fact that this was supposed to be factory assembled and tested. In other words, it was supposed to arrive at site CKD, put it together like a modular unit, which is what we keep on being told, but which is not what was delivered. So those costs are -- I mean, it's a huge amount of money that has been incurred in respect of those. And the full details will also come out in our accounts. So that's in broad summary, I'm not trying to go into the detail that some people have asked for. That is a matter for our accounts. And when our accounts are published, all of that will be there and will be apparent. Suffice it to say that very little of what we have raised in the last year or so has gone anywhere other than into efforts to ensure that we get Zulu to where it is. Okay. Just moving on from that one there, our relationship with our offtake partner. The only thing I want to say is that I think that the patients and the understanding that has been displayed by our offtake partner is exemplary. I could not be more appreciative of what we have from them. I think their patience is extraordinary. I am, as a result of that determined even more determined than I have ever been to see that this plant gets into operation, and it meets those targets and it provides and delivers the spodumene that it should. I've been asked some of the questions, and I mentioned this related to future and there was discussion about should we sell Zulu, shouldn't we, where should we go, et cetera, et cetera. Let me make this point that we never went into this business to try and generate a quick sale. We went into it to get into production, build a mine, build long-term value. That said, it would be remiss if any reasonable offer was made that this was not properly looked at and examined both by our Board and by an independent or independent, fair and reasonable consultants. We would obviously look at anything like that, and it would then go to shareholders in any of it. It would be a disposal of a major asset, and it would be subject to shareholder approval. So I'm not running around trying to sell Zulu. That I'm not doing. But it would be remiss, as I say. And irresponsible if there was such an offer not to seriously look at it, any of it was considered reasonable recommended to shareholders. I had other comments in relation to whether or not we should have done an open offer, and I know this is referred to in our notice. I and some of our internal and external advisers are not in agreement in terms of how we could or should have proceeded My view, going back to December last year was that I would prefer to have seen an open forum and an approach to shareholders directly. There was a lot of opposition to that. And hence, that did not progress. So my own personal views are that I would prefer to be in this forum and being frank and open and honest with everybody and deal with it going forward. There were various questions directed in terms of me and how quickly you can get rid of me. I'm not going to say not quickly enough because that isn't the case. But I recognize that I have been here for some time. It is why I approached the Board and made the advice and recommendations to them last year. I am equally determined that this operation will go into proper production. There are some negotiations in the background in terms of how PREM should be taken forward. Whatever I do, I think I can only give an undertaking, it will be in the best interests of this company. I started this company with a registration of a little BVI company way back in 2008. My personal investment over many, many, many years into it, I think it's pretty well documented, if you go back into all the accounts and all the rest of it. And I think you'll find that this -- I've been asked what it is, it's probably north of GBP 8 million pounds, I would expect. I'm not quite sure. I don't keep a track on that. My concern is that we should be able to run a company that adds value, demonstrates its value and gives a fair and equitable return to all shareholders at the end of the day. So my commitment remains, I'm not going to disappear tomorrow. But I'm certainly not going to stand in the way of anybody with better or equivalent competencies who is ready to come in and take over and run this company immediately. I have no qualms at all about that. But I emphasize, I'm completely committed to ensuring that we do at the end of the day, get this company properly and fully into production. So those are sort of my thoughts at the moment. I just wanted to see, I really didn't want to go to a level of having an open forum because it would not have been possible for it to remain as constructive as I could. But I see that Mark Fairbairn is on the line. And I'm happy if Mark wants to extend an option to him, if he wishes, in respect of our other shareholders. I'm happy for him to do so if he wishes to do so, but I will leave it up to him.

I am here, George. Thank you for allowing me. I've been listening. [Technical Difficulty].

Go ahead Mark, I've lost you. Now you're unmuted again. Yes. Start again, You've been listening?

Yes, I have been listening. I apologize. I'm not in my office at the moment but I actually answered that, but I have been listening there. I'll keep an eye on some of the groups to see what people are asking. I mean, a few things that I picked up on, just from listening there, if I can ask a couple of questions there. What concerns me quite a lot actually is when you mentioned about the OEMs there. And although the components are good, with all the people that works, it sounds like a complete mess. Is that fair to say? And when you talked about wiring and stuff, it is going to really cause you lots of niggly problems. I mean you mentioned there about production, which is another big issue here, not giving commitment to first production until the ramp-up and you can't run for longer than 1 day. So I mean is there a reason why you can't run for longer than a day? Is it due to these niggly problems?

Mark, to quite a large extent, it is due to a lot of these niggly problems. I mean, for example, the way the SCADA, that's the systems control and data acquisition system is set up, and the simplest example of this is that each conveyor has an emergency stop button on it, E-stop, each -- or feeder has an emergency stop button on it. Now for various reasons during the course of the day, you may get an overload, a conveyor may go slightly offline, a bin may over full. There are a lot of things that happen in the normal course that one can resolve very quickly. If sitting in a control room, you can identify exactly where it is. But we have instances where this E-stop or emergency stop that is inserted is one emergency stopped for a number of different items. So there might be 3, 4, 5, whatever it might be 2, I don't know, emergency stop buttons, but it stops a number of different items. And you have to go and establish which one is causing the stop, which you can't do from the control room. There's no diagnostic capability from the control system going to where it may be. So you have to go through interrogate each one of these things go and look at it, see physically what's wrong, try and reset and then you get it going again. So it isn't that there's anything wrong with the feeder bin. It isn't that there's anything wrong with an item. What's wrong is the movement of the eye to the ore, whatever it may be from that point to another point. And not being able to see and very quickly deal with the entity. So that's a simplistic example of it, more complex and go back to some of this color coding, look, it isn't that there's a complete mix of different colors within 1 SCADA. It is that if an international standard for gray is X, that's what everybody else's mind and everybody else's SCADA is like, except for our original contractor. They suddenly are different. Now there's no reason for it. It just doesn't make sense, some of it. So just to emphasize, it's not major components that are a problem, moving, slurries, moving material from one to another adequately and satisfactory.

Okay. That does make sense if it's not the major components there. I mean, the thing is that I think most shareholders will want to know, and I know you're not making that commitment there. You did say you've got export permit that you have applied for which hopefully should come in sort of 3 weeks. Maybe that's a hint that it in 3 weeks you might be able to getting it away. I'm not going to hold you to that. But of course, we need those export permits. But everything is effectively working them to make SC6, and you've got the grades coming out, as you said before. Well yet you can't produce enough at the moment to sell. I mean I can ask you when you when you think you will you be able to, but maybe the better question is what do you need to do in order to get a product to sell and have the plant drilling further more than 24 hours?

Okay. So Mark, there are 2 components to it. The one is to get the plant to run on this consistent basis. When the plant runs on this consistent basis, the amount of feed that flows through the spodumene circuit is such that we are getting adequate tonnage containing spodumene all the way through cleaner one, cleaner two, cleaner three, and they're quite big containers. The other part of it, and once that happens, that tends to take care of itself. The other part is that at this stage, where we are having -- still having these various intermittent issues that stop us from being able to do that. The spodumene circuit as it is goes into an idle mode. But the way it is idling the way, and this is a piping issue, a pipe goes from here to there or whatever, the way the piping issues are established at the moment, it does not allow us to retain the spodumene contained within that flotation section adequately, and we lose it to tailings. Now I think that we've identified what needs to be done. That's a relatively small change in flow, and I am hoping that the OEM associated with that is going to agree with us. It's us at Zulu that have identified this and are making the recommendation. I'm hoping that they will agree with us. And that part of these changes can be in within 24 hours. Now if that is if, and I emphasize the if, if that has the effect that I hope it has. It means that every time we have an interruption, we don't have a loss of spodumene. It means we retain all that spodumene or certainly a significant amount of it and that in itself will be part of boosting the production levels. So it's a twofold situation.

Okay. Okay. And how is that sort of due diligence process going, the review of the plant that the [ SANA ] engineering, how are they getting on? It's been done?

It's been done. I've seen a preliminary report and some of the things I've mentioned now come out of that preliminary report. But as generally speaking, the preliminary report supports pretty well what I've said now about the plant. The kit is good. The -- a lot of the interfaces and the control system is these are areas that we have to resolve. And we are, we identify them. We put them up. This is the case if I eat an elephant. And the only way is in small bites. And every one of these things is taken and we do this every morning and every evening. This morning, personally, I was in the plant at 1:00 this morning. At 7:30, we had an operations meeting and we identified certain things. And guys have gone off with their job list of what they're going to do. And we do this every single day of the week. This plant doesn't understand the difference between an Easter Sunday, a Thursday and Easter Monday or a Good Friday or whatever it is. This is a 24/7 effort committed by everybody here deeply committed to bring this thing to that final stage where, yes...

Okay. Okay. Can I ask you 3 questions that I've seen come in? And then do you have more to talk about George? Or are you pretty much finished?

No, I was simply going to go back and just summarize what I had spoken about.

Okay. Let me ask these 3 questions, and then maybe we'll come back at the end. So with regards to the fixers need doing, do you have a competent team in-house at the moment who can deal and resolve with all these issues and concerns and -- sorry, can you -- do you have a team that can deal with all and resolve all the issues, concerns are around who would solve the issues that we have identified?

Well, the answer to that is a definite yes. With the early hours of this morning, we have electrical engineers. So these are all Zimbabwean nationals. They rebuild some of the more complex instrumentation managing the circuits last night. I mean stuff that generally speaking, one would say Oh my God, there's nothing I can do, just wait for Tuesday, there's going to be a new part. And this was it. The guys rebuild it. I mean we have fantastic competencies and skills.

Okay. Good, good, good. What about the product? And do you need -- and I've asked this before, and I think the answer was yes, that it does need to be independently tested before shipping. And you mentioned, I think, last time we spoke that you would invite one of the Canmax team to come over and test few of the product for themselves. So does that need to happen before you can ship? And if so, what lead time are you talking here to get that sort of either official test or someone from Canmax to come on and say, yes, we're happy with the quality?

Okay. So let's talk about the independent analysis that would be required before the goods could be shipped. And that can be done locally. There are local inspectors who can do that. The reason for me wanting Canmax to come through is twofold, partly to see the plant anyway and see the up where it is at the moment. But also partly that if they're prepared to come through and confirm the validity and accuracy of what we are saying here, then it should make life a little easier on outturn in China. So that we are less likely to having disputes. And if we are at least they would have been here, done assay tests with us and have taken the samples, which will then become the reference samples. So it was a twofold reason for that, but not essential.

Right. Okay. Okay. And do you plan to get it -- I mean, do you have a lead? When would you like to get that test done is the question?

I have -- from Canmax, if Canmax decide to come out and Canmax can come out to you at any time.

Sure. I meant more the official tests from a local provider.

I think let me just see when we're likely to get a permit. And let me see our production until next week.

Next week. Okay. Okay. Another question that someone said was just about your loan. Is it possible that would you consider deferring taking your loan shares in the short term?

I mentioned that, and I had just part of the notes that I had to speak about, and I apologize. Yes, look, there are 2 aspects to this. The one is that in terms of the original loan agreement, it is indeed default. There's nothing I can do about that one. It is. But is PREM in a position to repay the stage the answer is no. Am I going to start forcing or demanding anything from PREM, the answer is no. What are my expectations that at some point in time, I made whole, that's it. Nothing else. I'm not going to take those shares at this point in time. I mean this is some -- PREM is independent of me. The Chairman of PREM and others, together with [indiscernible], they must had their discussion and decide how they want to deal with us. It's not me. So no, I'm not especially.

Okay. Okay. Well, the only other thought for me and it's probably what everyone is thinking as well. And it's a golden question that you probably can't answer, but you mentioned there about the XRT earlier on not being perfect. However, you can carry on your selective mining, but I imagine this can't carry on forever here. But at the moment, it's okay. Would you look to replace that sort at some point to get something that does work as it should because you can't really continue selective mining for forever?

Mark, the deeper into the ore body we go, the more competent it's getting. So to answer your question, yes, you can't. But the ore body itself is perhaps going to deal with a little more of a problem. It doesn't mean to say we don't have to do something about it. Now let me make this point that TOMRA has been incredibly supportive directly. And I'm not talking about them almost in an OEM kind of capacity. They've been incredibly supportive. And they remain so and Anzaplan will be working closely with him in Germany in the very near future now. And this is the case with samples and quite large quantities of samples that need to get there but all of it's been identified how it's being done, all of these things have been identified, very clearly. So I know that there will be some very close work done. And I'm deeply appreciative to the guys at TOMRA. My experiences with them direct have been good. I think that this, having a machine that was not necessarily ideal and/or perfectly fit for purpose is a separate issue. I don't think that's their fault.

Okay. Okay. I don't know, again, if you can answer this question, George, but it has just come in, can you say how much has been produced to date? So how much is sitting there waiting, notwithstanding shipping?

I can't but I'll go. I think in some of the videos, let me -- I can't right now, no.

But there is product there, I assume?

We have announced, shown it. It is there, there is a SC6. We've got independent analysis of it, et cetera.

Okay. Okay. Well, Part 4 of your video was eagerly awaited, I think George, the banks, that's the next thing that's expected. The only -- there's a comment that someone wants me to make, I'll leave. I'll just ask one last question here, which is really on the -- I know it does frustrates you as well the sort of missed deadlines. You said that you're embarrassed sometimes that you can't make the shipment there to Canmax. You've talked about raising money and you hopefully won't need to do that to the full extent, we're hopefully going to get the cash flow even. But when it comes to actually the sort of consistent, if you like, missed deadlines. And if I can say maybe quite disappointments from -- on these elements, not getting the shipment out, it does frustrate shareholders and I wonder if it is about frustrates Canmax. So I mean, what could you perhaps say on Canmax happy or frustrated maybe but are they at least on site? And I mean, is it really a week-by-week thing? Is this really a changing thing every week?

Well, let me deal with the last part of your question first. The status in terms of plant, the continuity and production and so on is changing day by day. So that's active. In terms of Canmax, I can't speak for Canmax. I'm pretty sure that they must have a huge amount of frustration. I certainly would if I were there. But I think that what is so much more significant is that I think there's an understanding. I think they understand some of the issues that we're going through. And in context, they aren't outside of Australia, there are only a hell of a lot of spodumene concentrate operations that have really been built. I mean it's not that there's a huge world of experience out there. And the other thing is with every pegmatite is different. So I think that there is some level of understanding of some of this from Canmax doesn't change my frustrations. I mean the only other comment that I might make and I've said this before, and I've said it many, many, many times. I don't think that we would be any more advanced. In fact, I think it would be far less advanced if we had just gone ahead down the traditional route and gone and done a DFS and so on and so forth. I don't even know whether we would have found all the funding to complete the DFS completely. I don't think I'm confident had we gone down that route. We would not have a mine today. We would not be talking about something that had produced SC6 that is at this stage of ramp-up that we have these expectations for. We certainly would not be having that discussion at the moment. So I think that something that we lose sight of far too easily at times. It's not trying to alleviate any of the concern or embarrassment or anything like that, that I feel. But maybe I've learned not to believe everything I'm told.

Okay. Okay. Well, I only have 1 comment here that someone I think it's quite a large shareholder who wanted me to mention, George, and then there was one last question, maybe you can use it to finish off. But it's -- this person says, regardless of your thoughts regarding, George, there's no one else out there who will try as hard for shareholders as George will. So here we go nice bit of feedback there for you, George. And people think that you look tired. You look overworked, I can see you on site as well on the Bank Holiday, on the Easter Bank Holiday weekend. So -- and hopefully, we'll be catching up on a fairly regular basis, as you say, is changing fairly regular. The only last point that I picked up here was if you could expand a little bit more on the sort of issue of plant expansion? That's all I have. So I guess the question is more -- it is about are there any thoughts on plant expansion? And if you could sort of say any more about that and what might be coming?

Well, if I had the money right now, I would be looking to cost out expansions on the flotation circuit in particular on the micro side of it, which I think is perhaps a little overwhelmed. So I would be looking to cost out expansions on flotation. And I think that we probably have the ability within everything that we've got at the moment to expand our spodumene targets fairly significantly with some upgrades on micro flotation and with DMS, where test route is being done. So that's in the one direction. Tantalum, I've said what was deficient in Tantalum. But in looking at the DMS circuit, we're also looking at an alternative collection for Tantalum. From a much bigger and a longer-term perspective, I still believe that Zulu has the potential this area generally, what we have started our EPO area in the [indiscernible], I believe we have the potential to justify here in situ where we are an expansion into either a sulfate or carbonate, probably sulfate to be easier, further processing plant. I think that the environment will allow us to do it, I think the skill levels are here, the resources are here, we're going to produce to a high enough standard, transport general infrastructures are not that bad et cetera, et cetera. So from that point of view, I see that there are some pretty good, good, good opportunities. I might say if I may, just moving off Zulu for the moment, that is that I have not lost sight of where I would like us to go with the Tungsten project. And I think that looking at some of the fundamentals around Tungsten, I think it's really good at the moment. And there are other exploration projects that we're involved in. We do have other projects that are going to show us value and return as we go forward.

Okay. Okay. Well, I'll leave it there. And just the final thought for me as sort of a question pops up since you mentioned Tungsten there. What about the Tantalum? I know we've spoken about this before, but any time line on the Tantalum? I know it was being thought about being worked on, but any realistic time frames there in the tantalum recovery?

I don't want to put a time line on it at the moment. I have the OEM involved with the magnetic separation side due for a site visit in the next 7 odd days. There is this DMS test work that I mentioned earlier being done at the moment, that will also give a result on Tantalum. So it's very topical and very much ongoing now. I don't want to give time lines.

Okay. Okay. Well, I think that's it from me. Thank you for involving that a little bit, and I'll let you finish off.

I think I'm going to go put some [ germs ] in this water.

Okay. Yes, you probably need to. And hopefully, we can speak. Yes, maybe towards the end of next week to see what's going on, but thank you. Thank you for allowing me to ask a few questions there that I picked it from shareholders.

All right. And then thank you. But thank you, in particular, to, I think there was something like 181 guys, ladies, guys on this call earlier. I appreciate it very much indeed. We will do the best that we can to maintain our communications as they are. [indiscernible] is available, and he's probably more contactable than I am, but I will also do whatever I can to keep in contact. And I remain as determined and is optimistic about this as I have ever been. So thank you very much, indeed. Thank you. Have a great weekend.