Premier African Minerals Limited (PREM.L) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. I'd like to proceed with this meeting. It is 15:30. This is a continuation of a previously adjourned meeting of shareholders of Premier African Minerals. So if I can welcome you to this, I think I've met most of you. I am George Roach. And it's always good to be able to see shareholders who do come to these and perhaps to be able to address others who are on the listening end of this. There is a quorum present and I'm going to proceed therefore, with the meeting. But before proceeding to formal business of the meeting, any particular questions concerning the proposed resolution. I'm happy to deal with those in advance of reading the resolution and putting it to the floor. If there are any specific questions at this stage. Okay. I'm going to then proceed if I may. Let me just ask also, are there any other representatives present who are holding any letters of representation at all? I believe not. Thank you. The resolution -- this resolution is being proposed as a special resolution and requires a 75% present in voting for this resolution to pass. A special resolution to approve for the period commencing 24 months following the date of this general notice the disapplication of the preemption provisions set out in Regulation 1/5 of the company's Articles of Association in relation to the SCR or the grant of any right to subscribe for or convert any security into up to a further 9,5 billion ordinary shares and authorize the directors of the company to issue or grant any right to subscribe or convert to securities into shares in accordance with the provisions of this resolution. But so that the company may make offers and enter into agreements during the period, which would or might require shares to be allotted or rights to subscribe for or convert other securities into shares to be granted after the period. Any questions in regard to this resolution? Okay. I'm going to ask the honor representative their presence. So there is no requirement for any show of hands-on voting. And as the Chairman, I hold proxies totaling 7,838,857,355 billion votes in favor of this resolution and 4,632,032,923 against, a further 18 million are withheld. Accordingly, the resolution has failed as this resolution is a special resolution requires 75% of persons present and voting to support that. This is the business of the meeting. And there is no further business of the meeting proposed for this. However, in calling the formal meeting to a close, we are linked to a number of -- I'll give you the numbers in a moment. Another 160-odd participants who are linked to us through a webinar. And I'm happy to deal with questions to the extent I can, and to discuss how the company intends to deal with this situation going forward. So I'm happy to do it on the basis of questions or I'm equally at ease to discuss this initially. Maybe that would be easier, and I'm happy simply to discuss it. Okay. For some time, the company has been very clear in various forum. And I think it's clear enough in the public domain as well that should this resolution failed to pass, the company's fallback because the company has a very sound fallback position in regard to this. And that fallback position is to go to shareholders directly with a formal and proper open offer to shareholders to subscribe for additional shares in the company. Now in support of that, the company has had and is in a late stage of negotiation with parties who are anxious to fund whatever it is that we seek at this time for shareholder participation and the way in which we plan to go ahead with us is to finalize the existing term sheets that we are working with as rapidly as we can on the basis that immediate money will be then available to the company and that immediate money will come in as a loan to the company. The formal documentation to shareholders, offering shareholders rights to participate to the extent or pay pursue with their shareholding. That will be circulated and distributed as quickly as we are able to finalize it. And the final step in this will be that to the extent that shareholders take this up, and I think it's attractive. And I would think that there are going to be some good takers on this. The party that provides the loan funding would then accept repayment of their funds together with the premium obviously. Alternatively, if it isn't fully subscribed, then the providers of the loan funds would convert that loan into shares at that price. So the ability in the background to ensure continuity of the operations of the company, to ensure that we meet our obligations as to the extent that we are required to do so remains in place. The other point that I think should be made is that looking at the negative vote and where it has come from. And based on some other discussions in the background to this, I think that our offtake partner has a view that their position as a shareholder and their percentage of shareholdings within the company was something they wish to retain. I have no problem with that. Premier has no problem with that and welcomes it. The only issue is the basis under which that is retained. And in terms of the previous agreements, the price at which our offtake partner could make up this shortfall of this was significantly above the ruling share price. And going down the route that we're going down now, that should remove that hurdle, and they should now be in a position to feel that they are being treated exactly as any other shareholder is being treated. And I -- whilst I have not had any discussions such as that, with our offtake partners, I think that it goes without saying that that should ameliorate that issue with them. So that's the basis under which we need to proceed at the moment. And we will be, as I say, expediting that. I'm happy to the extent I can to take questions and to attempt to deal with whatever they are. I see there may be some coming in here. I just wanted to check and see. Questions from the floor here.

George, did you get any feedback as to why the vote went the way it did? Bigger shareholders voting now, why did they say they voted no?

Well, I think I've just covered that. I've literally just covered it that I think that our offtake partner had felt that they wanted to be in a position to retain the level of shareholding, which gives them a form of negative control within the company and that they did not wanted to be prejudiced into having to accept to make up at a price 10x, 8x or whatever, which is higher than the ruling market price. Now going down to this route, but we are now going down, that takes away that problem and they're now in a position to make up at the same price as anybody else. Are they able to buy an open market at the current price?

[indiscernible]

I beg your pardon.

Can they buy on the open market?

I'm sure they can.

But they're choosing not to, they don't want to...

I don't know. I honestly don't know. I don't interrogate that generally with them.

This is bad news for shareholders because previously, the backstop was 0.4P per share for Canmax. It's now not going to be. So that...

I think it was 0.31 something like that whatever it was.

That's stronger than that.

Correct. Look, to be frank and in fairness, I think to Canmax and in fact, discussing the overall offtake agreement and so on. In so many ways, it was a very good offtake agreement. But through time and through some of the plant problems, it has become almost a catch-22 in that it makes it difficult for others to come in and at the same time does not ease Canmax's position either. So I have a lot of empathy with it. I understand where it is, but in the time allowed now in the circumstances surrounding the previous adjourned meeting and this one. There hasn't been enough of an opportunity to try and negotiate an alternative that was palatable and acceptable to a public company and to themselves. So I think that at the end of the day, I think that this effectively solves the problem. It puts them in a position where they can now very easily maintain their position.

Could the special resolution cross without Canmax support whether they're going to say against it wasn't going to happen anyway?

Could have. It just would have needed more shareholders to support. If you think about it GBP 7.8 billion to GBP 4.6 billion, GBP 7.8 billion in favor. So there's a significant majority if this was a simple resolution. It is a special resolution.

So what happens now that if this is successful, that you get the money, when does production begin?

Well, that's moving on. Let's move on to that side of it. I've said recently that there effectively are 3 options on the table at the moment. And these are all out there. I think they're known. The one option was that we were offered a small stand-alone almost spodumene flotation plant by a Chinese company in Zimbabwe. That plant to take that to and planted into Zulu, integrate it and so on would have cost around about $0.5 million. It was not going to be able to accommodate all of the material that are malls, and the micro plant can actually produce. So it would have been a secondary production situation. I have not ruled it out. The next is the work that is being done by [indiscernible]. And [indiscernible], I think they've been pretty thorough in what they've done in coming to a conclusion that the spodumene cleaner cells were too large and the material remained within the cell for an extended period, and as a result, was dropping out of the flotation frosts back into the cell instead of overflowing. And they have proposed a simple design, which has been quoted on. We have people who can do this either in South Africa or in Zimbabwe, I have not confirmed the order yet because the third option that appeared was from the reagent manufacturing company, who specialize in flotation and work for major mining companies all over the world. And they have expressed a view, and this I actually personally support that a lot of the problem was more associated with the viscosity of the froth that was not flowing out of the cells quickly enough. And as a result of that, there was too much turbulence in the lower part under the froth. And this is where the spodumene was being lost and some of the gain material in trained. Now they have tested and come up with a relatively simple change in the flotation reagents. That they believe will accelerate the movement of the froth out and to do away with most of this problem. They are of the view that a 25-day test front of the plant or pulling that one, one way or another. The clients can be brought back into production very, very quickly. It is not obviously producing at the moment. This is the case of being able to meet some of the immediate debt issues, which funds will assist us with, and then to be able to put that plant into operation for a 3- to 5-day period and just confirm definitively if this reagent adjustment is going to do what I'm being told it would do. I think simultaneous with that we will go ahead with the inserts to reduce the size of the floatation chambers. They will take 5, 6 weeks or so to manufacture and they do not have a major cost associated with them either.

George, those inserts, you talked about, you -- I thought you said that they won't be necessary if option #3, the reagent works. So one question, why are we going ahead with it now? And secondarily, why didn't we go ahead with it some time ago?

I was on the verge of going ahead with it when the reagent discussion came up.

Doesn't ask a question because if you say that it won't hurt, it won't harm it, why don't we just do it?

Yes. Maybe it's a little circumspection that I've developed over a period of time. There have been so many modifications, small modifications, change this, change that and so on. So I'm not saying I don't believe it will work. I'm simply saying that I think I'd like to have this plant running for its 3 to 5 days and be able to look at that. And if that works adequately, then I don't need to go any further. I think I'd rather do that.

[indiscernible] wait for 5- or 6-weeks manufacturing and certain things come?

That would take about probably 5 weeks for them to be manufactured, they can be manufactured in Zimbabwe. I think so. Whereas these 3 to 5 days as soon as I have enough money to run that plant, I can.

And that's reliant on the shareholders?

It's reliant on this. Look, the funding package that we are negotiating in the background, that in itself is not necessarily reliant on shareholders. That would be put in place as a debt package, and it would remain as a debt package until the offer to shareholders closes. If half the shareholders is fully subscribed, then the debt package is repaid.

[indiscernible]

Well, the term sheet under negotiation right now.

Was that meant [indiscernible]?

It means right now; I want that money within 7 to 10 days.

7 to 10 days.

Yes.

Are we actually looking to raise?

On that -- on that debt package? Somewhere above the $4 million mark. The maximum that we can go to at the moment on this expedite and limited process, now the specialists who can answer that question better than me. We have various brokers here as well, is GBP 5 million. I believe that's top number that we can look at, at the moment. Anything beyond that requires a prospectus. In terms of the topic of doing a complete prospectus, I haven't ruled that out. I don't know whether it isn't something that we should do as a matter of course in any event. But at the moment, on that -- the limit on the process that we're finding at the moment is GBP 5 million. I think that's right.

[indiscernible] Well, it's going to be the [indiscernible] for me either place or both places.

Well I think the biggest question, Mark, in the middle of that is if one successfully runs that plant and produces what we believe the plant should produce. I think that the overall valuation in our shares and on our company inside is going to adjust dramatically and that in itself is going to be hugely beneficial. Where it gets us too is that on that total package, it gets us to a point where we will have run this plant again now, we will have alleviated the immediate debt requirements that we need to deal with them. [indiscernible] and we will be able to run it and insert the fabricated items into the chambers as well.

So you would anticipate that's 24/7 running?

Yes, but not today.

No. No, [indiscernible]

But the current share price GBP 5 million, will be 15 billion shares. 50 million shares in issuance.

That's that discount...

Look, the pricing of this thing is not negotiated yet.

Pricing dropped 25% in the last half an hour. So now below 0.03p.

Well, I have to say that the establishment of the mine, the plant and everything really is there is $100 million. Nobody is going to replace what is there or anything like it. The resource statement that is there. We've seen it, it's been released. It's independent. It's a JORC and SAMREC compliant. We can see what the values of this thing are. We can see precisely where we are at the moment in terms of what's needed, what's been accomplished, what still has to be accomplished. I, for the life of me, don't understand there's a value disconnect. I think that there's an emotive issue driving this as opposed to the real functional issues.

[indiscernible] confidence is not rather than [indiscernible]

Yes. I think confidence is part of it. I think confidence is part of -- I'm anxious and conscious of the confidence issues. I am looking to bring in further assistance in terms of negotiation with our offtake partners. I think that, to some extent, our -- who we are and who the Canmax team are very different in many ways. I don't know that we always understand each other property. And I think that I need to create an interface there, so I'm looking to do that as well. I think there's much more engagement to be had with them. But just going back on this overall value situation. If one bears in mind that outside of the mining lease area itself, and the mining lease has been gazetted now in Zimbabwe. Outside of that, the extent of additional claims that we have, we have over 100 identified pegmatite ore bodies within our outside claims' areas. It is a huge district and to the extent that the lithium market or spodumene is where it is at the moment, I don't think that this is where the field is going to be. I don't think it's going to remain at this kind of level. The other issue is that we've demonstrated internally that we can produce when we are properly connected to the grid and various other things resolved. That our production cost is likely to be less than $500 a tonne ex mined at. So the margins for profitability is significant and remains. We still have made no allowance yet for tantalum. There is a fair amount of test work and on the go at the moment in relation to the tantalum circuit. Magnetic test, susceptibility testing has been done with very good results. And a lot of this will lead to those circuits that can recover the tantalum and then possibly the high-purity quartz as well.

That's all worth from the $5 million?

I don't know that I'm going to be able to get in a circuit to recover quartz out of that.

And tantalum?

I will be able to extract -- we will be able to extract a concentrate -- probably a salable concentrate, yes, from the wet high-impact magnets that we can install. Those are -- that's a pretty definitive situation that one. Although the decision hasn't been taken yet. Okay. I just wanted to quickly see here. I just want to see what I'm missing. There are a number of questions here, but most of these we've already discussed. We discussed the nature of the loan, whether it would be converted or not or can be repaid.

George. If you're saying with this debt package, the backstop clause will be removed?

Sorry, just say that again.

The $200 million clause the backstop from April that we have with Canmax, is that removed if we go ahead with this debt?

No, I haven't had that discussion with them.

That still stands to remain.

I haven't had any discussion with them in terms of their options and our options as of the first of April. That is a necessary part of the discussions that we need to have with them now. And it's one of the reasons why I'm looking for an additional intermediate party to assist me. I think that there is a fair amount of uncertainty surrounding that event, not a problem at all. I think there's a fair amount of uncertainty regarding that from both sides. And I think it needs to be sat down with them, we need to go through very carefully and very clearly with them. You see, if I step back further, when we entered into the offtake agreement, I think it was the correct thing to do. What was not foreseen were, in particular, the milling problems that we were going to have at Zulu. And that is the heart of where the problems really start because until we mold correctly, we couldn't prove the flotation. It had to be a step-by-step process. And the milling has put us back 9, 10 months, whatever it may be before we could get that all sorted out. Now under those circumstances, the offtake agreement per se, the prefunding and so on, all of those things, there are aspects of that none of us foresaw at the time. So we do need to go back and have further discussions with our offtake partner and then with us as well in regard to that. And I think that there's a fair amount of cleaning up and so on that can be done. One of the options on that is just a simple extension of the [indiscernible], and that might be the easiest way of solving everything, and nobody has to face a conundrum of any kind because I'm quite sure that with the present situation in the market, that Canmax would be reluctant to exercise the option to convert I think they'd be happier. And if I was in their position, I'd be happy and just sitting and saying, well, we'll keep on just adding interest to us. And I don't think that necessarily works for us either. So I do think that there's work to be done there. But I think that, that is a much positive situation to be able to deal with once we have this plant running and producing.

And if you get the money, when will it start producing? When will we actually see revenue and profits that be generated?

Step 1 is to run this on the 3- to 5-day trial. If the 3 to 5-day trial works, I think that we would -- there would be little reason not to want to look to run it continuously.

When you looking to the 3 to 5-day trial?

As soon as I've got funding to actually sort out a little bit of OpEx for the plant. The plant requires diesel. To run the plant that 3 to 5 days, I need about 70,000 liters of diesel.

The literally weeks after you've secured it.

Yes. Yes.

Are [indiscernible] quite confident this is -- this will work, and they try it elsewhere or is it...?

Yes. The company itself provides flotation reagents to the mining industry international to the biggest of the mining companies.

So I tried elsewhere, this is same sort of wall...

Let me say that the principles of what -- of the composition of the front and what needs to be there and how it needs to behave they understand absolutely. So I'm confident that they -- what they say and its very senior people in their company, what they say and what they've offered to do, they have seen if you go ahead with the 3 to 5-day trial, they will put their own team there to manage the complete reagent package. If that's what they're prepared to do at their expense, then -- and I think that that's a significant step in the right direction.

[indiscernible]

Well, that's exactly what they do. You see it's a fairly -- it's a complex relationship. I mean the floating the material up through the [indiscernible] zone and then getting it into a froth and getting it to flow over the loan. And some of the differences between a lot of the Chinese-based plants is that their plants tend to be effective in collecting most of spodumene, but not as effective as the plant we have or as thought we have should be in refining and producing a higher grade of spodumene. So much of the spodumene that you see are being processed and being available at the moment in Zimbabwe as well is not SC6. But anywhere between 4.5 and 5.5, that's generally where it is. Also, there are a couple of the Chinese operations in Zimbabwe that the information I've got is that they are not producing at the moment, and I can only think that part of that just because of the lower grades and the more contaminants and therefore, a reduced price. The price quoted for SC6 is what it is. But for every point you go below, there's a reduction in price. So if it's $800 for SC6, it's certainly not $800 a tonne by the time you get to SC5. It is significantly lower, and is more contaminant being shipped and so on. So maybe there is going to be some merit in the longer term in the kind of plant that we have at Zulu as opposed to some of the others that are not necessarily going to achieve the grades in spodumene that we believe the Zulu plant is capable of doing.

Is there any risk that Canmax might take the plant in lieu of the money [indiscernible] you see some people are worrying about some of them may say it. Is there any risk of that happening?

Not at the moment.

Not at the moment.

Okay. But maybe when we get to May, if things haven't improved. They could...

Look, I think it's important that we have our discussions and negotiations with them now. I want to take away any uncertainty that relates to what happens after April, okay? At the moment, April is very much a determined date on which there should be some action. But I don't know whether the action is necessarily appropriate. So that's the discussion that we need to have.

Because they need spodumene, they need it presumably quite -- I mean they've been waiting a long time [indiscernible] They not have a deal with Ford where they need to start actually producing batteries and they're not going to run out of patients...

[indiscernible]

I mean, at the moment, Ford is pulling back Volkswagen is pulling back, saying he's pulling back because they're too flame [indiscernible]. And the Chinese, it's out there absolute [indiscernible] but now he's got [indiscernible]. But as I say, the Chinese at the moment, they are pumping out fast and furious.

But I think Mexico to deal with Ford where they promised to supply for orders [indiscernible] at a certain date, and they're not going to be [indiscernible].

I think Ford is going to be quite -- we don't believe it at quick at the moment because as I say, there needs to be a big push on EVs at the moment a [indiscernible] never works.

I don't know that we were excited together. [indiscernible]

Canmax and the other interested parties that are around in these conversations are aware of all the potential and all the stuff around and the other areas of stuff [indiscernible] off at the moment because they must know how close you are and the position, you're in.

And this is a personal view, really very, very much a personal view. When -- what little I know of the Canmax view. To me, they are a chemical engineering and manufacturing companies. They're not a mining company. I don't think that they ever invested in Zulu with the intention of wanting to run a mine. They invested with the intention of securing spodumene supply. At the moment, there is an oversupply. You have certain Australian situations cutting back. We've seen it, we have a lot of plants that isn't being funded and built at the moment. I think that we're going to take a huge step in the opposite direction very soon. I'm not quite sure when. I'd hope that we'd see stability by around about now. I don't think we're going to -- for another year or so. But eventually, I think there will be stability. I think that one of the other big deals recently announced effectively priced spodumene at round about $1,500, something around those lines. If that's where spodumene is going to be Zulu is going to be a very, very happy place in time to come. Be a very happy place. So going back to Canmax, there is -- the options are much better today in terms of securing what they need as their feedstock than it was a year or 2 years ago. So that has changed dramatically. I don't -- and I think that, that does -- they should be biting [indiscernible] to try and get this whole project. But I don't think they...

I think the investment for the [indiscernible] the line, you didn't want not them.

Yes. Look -- yes. The impression that they gave me is that it's a very easy market for them at the moment. And they really are able to -- they can almost do what they like. They are the biggest I understand still of the lithium hydroxide producers. That's just where they are. So I don't think that they have any particular qualms about whether or not we are producing. I think from one point of view, it might almost suit them right now that we aren't producing, that they are not sitting on having to take our product as well and having to work the profit share ratio and so on with us. I think it probably suits them that they're not having to do that right now. But the point being in my personal view, they are not a mining company. I think there are other companies that would be very keen subject to some renegotiation in terms of this offtake and how the thing can be structured differently. I think there are a lot of other people who would be very interested.

Is that a viable?

I know that there are lot of other people here to [indiscernible] comes and didn't want to dilute their shareholding, didn't want to allow you [indiscernible] shares to go. Will they want somebody else coming in and partnering or whatever else, investing in there?

Canmax are in a comfortable position contractually in terms of what they have in terms of access to the spodumene and so on. I just believe that at the moment, it probably suits them that they don't have to have another supplier.

Not to stop them and other investors.

I don't think it will. I don't think it will, but the negotiation hasn't been had. There's no...

[indiscernible] questions raised?

It's a question that has been raised because it is -- without a doubt, it puts me in a [ Catch 22 ] when it comes to trying to deal with the overall Canmax situation and the overall Zulu situation from an investment perspective.

From other parties?

Yes.

Are they viable currently? Because that's something that you have the negotiation will Canmax [indiscernible] that's something that can happen [indiscernible]?

I believe Canmax, I would like to be the way that Canmax will support any reasonable alternatives that protects their interests, protects their money, their rights to [indiscernible] I don't think that they're going to be difficult about any of this.

And there are people who want to come in a lot [indiscernible] on their cost.

There are -- yes, there are some -- there are a number of other business [indiscernible]...

[indiscernible] to expand upon. That's just...

Yes, I can't expand at the moment. Other than to say that it is an interesting project. And I mean, the other thing that's of interest, and I don't know whether this goes anywhere, we are -- one of the very few spodumene producers in and around in the African environment. That at the moment is not Chinese owned.

What happened to the option of potentially selling Zulu? Is that still on the table?

Yes. I have never taken [indiscernible]. I mean I must just say, I know that we've only spoken about Zulu at the moment. But Zulu isn't the only thing that's [indiscernible]. And Prem really should be trying to close out this manganese situation in Namibia. The manganese is being exported on a regular basis there. We should be closing that out. It's a good opportunity. The percentage we hold is small at the moment, but the point and the mechanism of accessing the balance of it is not expensive. And the other one that we should be doing something about, and we are beginning to get a little bit of traction, I think, from the Zimbabwean authorities is on the RHA Tungsten project. Again, it's a fully equipped developed mine.

Did the actual mill go back or?

I haven't pull it back yet, but it's fine where it is.

Wouldn't they replacing or anything?

That's been fully refurbished. That [indiscernible] that we took out of RHA to use [indiscernible] and Zulu, it's fully refurbished, fully operational.

When you say when it should be, it's the -- the case of getting the finance to get them operating? [indiscernible]

Yes. It's not for nothing. The plant has been standing now for a couple of years. It's got to the point where a lot of the Belgium [indiscernible], for example, they're all going to actually replace not that that's most expensive thing. But most of the other stuff will be well serviced and can be work back [indiscernible]...

I'll just go back. I think you've answered that, a possible I just wanted to share.

Did I read somewhere that you said some product out to processed under the premises to check in.

Yes.

And what the result came from that?

Yes. Yes, I think to the extent that there's any commentary that tries to discount the deposit or anything like that is Zulu, this is absolute nonsense. They've been -- it's gone through too many floatation reagent tests in different countries, in Germany, in South Africa, and we're all over the place. It isn't -- that isn't a problem. Deliberation of this thing is not a problem. It's a standard LCT [indiscernible] dominant pegmatites and it's not...

[indiscernible] problems related [indiscernible].

Yes, it's selectivity in the reagent and movement of the material of the float cell. So to me, most of the problem is in the boundary layer between the slurry and the froth on top and then getting the froth to flow. And if one thinks about it, it wasn't a widely known technology, and this principle. The Chinese based -- generally, the Chinese design with these panel wheels that we're rotating were gross. They scooped off everything that was on top. It wasn't the case of having to wait for the froths to over the side of the [indiscernible] whereas our target [indiscernible] refined product and requires that froths move themselves and [indiscernible] up. Again, with hindsight, and a little bit more time at the time that we put this thing together. And I think we did put it together very rapidly. There may have been time to rethink that. I'm not sure. It is what it is at the moment.

Does the independent report that you've had [indiscernible] the plant. Does it give you grounds to go after the original manufacturers?

I beg your pardon. Just say it again.

The independent report that you've got into the plant. So they had -- does that give you grounds to go up to the original design [indiscernible]?

We've always believed that. And there is, in my opinion, no doubt on the comminution circuit on the milling circuit, which was really the heart of most of these and then the sorters just before that. I think that these are open and shut. I don't think... No, no, but we manage. We mine very carefully and selectively and we manage. There is an ore sorting it's taken far too long, but it's coming to a need now of material that is in Germany at the moment in Europe, undergoing ore sorting using, I think, 4 different companies and various different mechanisms. And we should have a report on that fairly soon. But we manage around that one. Careful mining has allowed us to mitigate that.

Lots of sorters are literally replaced. So will it be...

The sorters that are installed are not appropriate. So it is something I said. Really, they just don't, there's too many issues associated with him. I think that most of the questions that I'm seeing here are things that we've spoken about -- let me just make a point. There's one question there that I don't think is clear. And that is that under the agreement as it is at this time with Canmax, when there is a failure to deliver in a particular month, okay? The alternative that was set up, one of the alternatives set up in the agreement would say that we could make a cash payment. Now those payments, if made, are offset against the prepayment. They are not a penalty in addition to the prepayment. And I think that it's been misunderstood in some ways. It is not so -- so these cumulating amounts each month cannot accumulate to more than the prepayment. So if all of those were paid, the prepayment would be paid. If the prepayment is dealt with, then those are no longer there. It's not a penalty in addition. And I think there's been some misunderstanding of that over a period. But the agreements are absolutely crystal clear about that.

The problem is a 12% interest. So that accumulates doesn't it?

Yes, 12% interest, I think, is too high. But again, there are various other questions here that we haven't looked at in relation to regular updates. I think that we've been trying very hard to get better at doing that. The other one that's worth dealing with and I don't mind dealing with again, I have dealt with them often enough before. In terms of me personally and skills within the company, I've indicated to the Board of PREM more than a year ago that there was a time when I would need to move. I have no intention of going anywhere until either the Board asks me to or shareholders do, or Zulu is working. And that was the limits that I had set. So I'm not personally -- and I think there are some various comments here in regard to it. I'm personally only committed to PREM to get this project working. And if people have different views inside them, I'm ready to go catch them all in again. How's that. Guys, anything else?

When do you think we'll be happy? When do you think we will be able to [indiscernible] I think while producing profits are flowing in and share price is back to normal?

I would like to think that it's very, very close. I really would. I mean, having gone through the process we've gone through. Having taken the things, you have to take it step by step by step. It was not possible to know the finite issues we have on spodumene flotation until such time as we've got the right material there. And the sad part of it is that the milling took too long to resolve. The milling was a mechanical issue that should have been fairly easy but was just large scale and took time. The flotation is the complex part of it, and we needed much more time on the flotation side than the reagent mixes and so on within the confines of the plant. That was where the time should have been spent, but that we did not have. We really only had proper flow-through from around about April, May this year. That was really where only -- really we had the correct material, correct tonnages, et cetera, et cetera, coming through. And we were already in deep money problems by then.

That $5 million probably going to be produced, will that then see the small alterations done and funding for the partial [indiscernible]. Whether -- will there be sufficient cash flow from that to get you to the point of actually selling it and getting the money in for it?

Possibly, I can't comment on that one. What I would like to be able to say and where I think the commitment needs to be is that we will be able to restart the plant to prove or disprove what I'm saying about the reagents. We will be able to get that done, and we will be able to create stability in terms of the debt management at Zulu. Those are the things that are definitive from that now.

And you said previously that once you got to that point, there were other fundings that may be available?

I believe so. I believe so. I believe that any proper positive news. Restoration of some level of confidence and so on is going to see our value change. I can't -- and I've said it before, I can't change the fact that the plant is there. It's a competent, solid, it's a really good bit of kick standing there. It's probably the best plant in Zimbabwe at the moment for potentially producing spodumene. And it is really good stuff that is there. The overall mine around about $100 million. So I have a massive amount of difficulty in associating market cap at the moment to what we really have there and where this thing is going.

What is the total market value today?

I don't know.

[ $12 million. 20% down on $12.8 million ] so over $10 million. $10 million. So it's going to be, I mean, valued at $100 million, it's 10x. So it's $200 million at 20x. And the price of the shares -- so really, everybody buys their shares for every share that you currently -- every 10 that you own, you got to buy a little more. So on the sort of positive.

Just one last questions. If the plant is worth $100 million, why can't you just borrow $5 million against it as a form of collateral? I know maybe it's not as simple as that, so $100 million asset. Why can't you borrow and probably settle it out?

I believe this is in the middle of nowhere. I mean I have always said you can, I mean, unless you want to settle second hand, someone's go downward ...

Stripping these things down and saying...

You talk often of changing. What's the plan for the 100 or so bags that you've got there at Zulu?

It's actually more than 100. Yes. Look, it's more than that. And this is ongoing. There are people who want. Not very long ago, we actually issued an invoice to some people who said they wanted to buy it. They did not come through with the money. There's another significant discussion going on right now in regard to that.

So it's more than 100 roughly?

There is probably about 500 tonnes of mixed material. 500 tonnes are sort of mixed at around about 4% between -- not less than 4% some up to 6.3%. There's some very good spodumene there as well.

And that's not going to generate anywhere near the [ [indiscernible] loan ]?

No. No, it isn't, but it might just if that went through tomorrow, that would pay for bringing this thing back online in 3 to 5 days.

[indiscernible]

That is complicated. It really is complicated.

Why?

Why. Sorry. So for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's already been exposed to reagents. And sometimes that exposure to certain reagents; for example, if you took the spodumene and put it back through the entire float plant, it's going to go back through the micro section again. The reagents that has previously been exposed to may cause a problem, they may not. It's not ruled out completely, but we haven't had a satisfactory answer to it as to how we can actually do that.

Okay.

I would support George.

Sure, $3 million of that.

George is [indiscernible].

[indiscernible]

I've got because we still got this running. And I was just wondering whether I shouldn't release everybody from this. Carry on, Mark...

Yes. Someone asked this schedule 3 weeks ago. And at the time, you probably knew that Canmax voted no. Why was there no discussions time with Canmax between you and them to perhaps persuade them giving the confidence to vote yesterday?

There has been a fair amount of correspondence and some discussions in the last couple of weeks.

So they still have that position? okay.

Well, my last and most recent e-mail and so on to them has gone unanswered. But I think the fact that they are not here today is as good answer as any.

And the other one I had was, would you participate in the open offer? Or indeed, would you consider loaning money yourself if you're so confident that you can get it to work in a 3- to 5-day period?

To the extent possible, yes.

On open offer..[indiscernible]

I don't know whether I'd be allowed to anymore.

Not anymore. But open offer?

It owes me enough at the moment. But open offer, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, no question at all.

Canmax is interested in the open offer as well?

Look, that wouldn't surprise me on the basis of this that Canmax can restore their position now at current prices that I'll be surprised if they don't take advantage.

I mean that's what they've been paying, wanting to do?

What they've been wanting to do.

Their position and why would they want to pay more than everybody else?

It always raise the question why you have the special resolution to try and dilute more when Canmax could always have been made in an open offer. The open offer could have come before?

No, it's got to go -- if it's an open offer, it's got to go to all shareholders.

Yes. So that could have been done before the resolution to take on more shares? If we have the relationship with Canmax, we wanted to protect them and shareholders because we obviously prefer to do the dilution as opposed to open offer. Probably that's the question?

Okay. So to be very frank, where we are now in terms of open offer equal opportunity to all shareholders is the position I personally had for nearly a year. That's my own personal position. But I also have a Board and I have other people and other advisers, right? And I think we've got a full circle. I don't always get my way, very clearly in this instance anyway. I think that it's more equitable from Canmax's point of view. I think it's more likely that they will step in and support. I think that it's equitable to the extent that it possibly can be to our general body of shareholders. I think that in terms of the underlying value that exists at Zulu and what it is, where the resources are, what that resource is today, what's there and how close this thing is, I think it represents a great opportunity. I...

I appreciate that.

Let's see. I think sense will prevail in terms of our values and rich efforts.

When you see the number of people today that have voted for, you would expect that to be a really good response anyone could offer. And when you all could take they would have voted for, they might even be willing to take more than their share. They might oversubscribe for it on the basis that some don't. But we have tried out to be more motivated there to get the resolution through to more people who have been highlighted the reasons to vote and stuff, what percentage of the total shareholding has voted?

Look, it's a high percentage in terms of weighing companies, but it's still a relatively low percentage. Sorry, I'm just scanning questions here again.

Would share price will ever go back to 1p? [indiscernible]

I think so. I think so, but I think it will require us to have brought on board the manganese and have it operating properly as well and possibly the tungsten as well. And bear in mind, those aren't the only additional claims and opportunities that we have. We've missed out on so many over the past 2 years, unfortunately.

Because attention on resources are [indiscernible]

All right, guys. Sorry, I'm just launching at some of these. I mean. And yes, I will keep -- I'm going to retain all these questions. And I will attempt to answer those that I haven't answered adequately through board and through our PR. I think guys, I think that's probably as far as we want to go. Andrew, do you want to say anything? Are you remaining in your corner?

Unless you want me to George.

You are welcome. If you have anything you want to say, I'm completely relaxed. I mean you have a lot of Chinese expertise.

I mean I'll tell you where I am, I'm Andre, the CEO of BSA Capital if you've heard of it. We have an office in Shanghai, and we believed that we can help George crossing overload. So we are discussing how we might be able to do that.

Is that the relationship you're talking about?

It's to be finalized, but I think it did not make sense. And I believe for a long time now that we don't have that actual skill, interpersonal where Canmax are in China. It's been difficult. I've never had a conversation with the Chairman of Canmax without interpreter. So -- and or anybody independent who speaks Chinese. So I have absolutely no idea what's being said on the other side, it's coming through correctly or not. I simply don't know.

And we've done quite a lot in USA and China. So we are quite comfortable because it a typical disconnect as far as you go, it is concerned.

Yes. I mean, I has been talking to George. I think I can -- even I spent quite a lot of time in China myself. I think I can see what the issues are, we can help resolve. But we're not engaged yet. That's a discussion we will have to do after this.

Okay. Guys, yes, look, the meeting was closed some time ago. To everybody who's been on the webinar and we've had a lot of people there. Thank you very much indeed. I think just to thank all of you most sincerely for your questions. I know that I haven't taken each and every one specifically. But I think in the general conversation we've had, we've covered most of these as best I think we can for the moment. In particular, just to note that we will follow up with RNSs, and we will be communicating actively with the market very actively from now on. So thank you very much indeed. And I think I'm going to end it at that. Thank you.