PT Avia Avian Tbk (AVIA.JK) Q2 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking the time to participate in today's call. We appreciate your continued interest in Avia and welcome you to our quarter 2 2025 earnings call. For your information, we uploaded the presentation materials to our website yesterday. Please note that all comparisons are to the same period of 2024, unless otherwise stated. The plan for today is to start with a quick presentation followed by a 1-hour Q&A session. If you have any questions during the presentation, please use the Q&A chat box and we will answer them during the Q&A session. For those who cannot join us now, the webcast of this event will be uploaded to our website no later than tomorrow. Thank you again for being here today. Allow me to start by introducing myself. My name is Andreas Timothy Hadikrisno. I'm the Head of Investor Relations at Avia and will be moderating this earnings call today. We are joined today by three other presenters, starting with Mr. Ruslan Tanoko, the Vice President Director of our company; followed by Mr. Robert Tanoko, the Operations and Development Director; and finally, Mr. Kurnia Hadi, the Finance Director. Avian Brands recorded a total revenue of USD 113 million, delivering a consolidated gross margin of 40.1% and EBITDA margin of 22.3% and a net profit margin of 18%. The company's market presence covers all 38 provinces in Indonesia, supported by a fast distribution network and over 9,000 dedicated employees. Throughout the quarter, Avian Brands maintained its industry-leading service to more than 58,000 building material stores across the country. This page summarizes the company's quarter 2 2025 performance compared to the same period last year. Avian Brands continued to demonstrate resilience and delivered positive second quarter results. The demand environment remained challenging as anticipated with persistent economic pressures weighing down on the overall consumption. In response to rising production costs, Avian Brands has decided to implement another price increase of around 1% to 2%, effective today, 1st of August. This adjustment primarily applies to the three main segments, namely the wall, wood and metal and waterproofing. Avian Brands launched two new products during this quarter, No Drop Cat Dasar Anti Bocor is certified by Green Label Singapore, reflecting the company's commitment to sustainable product innovation. The company expanded its product offerings in the automotive refinish segment by launching Avian Epoxy filler. Starting in May 2025, Avian Brands began distributing Dextone products through its wholly owned distribution centers. Currently, we are focused on accelerating sales growth and strengthening our combined position as the second largest player in Indonesia's adhesive market. We have an ambitious goal to become the #1 player in adhesive industry. With 125 wholly owned DCs nationwide, Avian Brands is uniquely positioned to capture growth opportunities wherever they emerge. To further strengthen our presence, we plan to add more distribution centers in the next quarter. Our fast distribution network enables us to deliver superior service to our customers, which translates to long-term loyalty. The company's ability to achieve a 91% fulfillment rate for one-day delivery service is a clear reflection of this capability. We continue to refine our operations to drive greater efficiencies over time. Despite ongoing headwinds, Avian Brands achieved IDR 1.86 trillion of total sales in quarter 2, growing by 8.8%. For the first half, consolidated sales increased by 7.3% reported at IDR 3.88 trillion. Throughout the first half, we recorded transactions from more than 56,000 retail outlets, marking an increase of over 2,100 retail outlets. Avian Brands continues to maximize the number of transacting retail outlets. I will now pass to Pak Hadi to continue the presentation.

Thank you, Pak Andreas, and good afternoon, everyone. This page presents the company's sales breakdown by segment. The Architectural Solutions segment accounted for 79% of total sales in the first half. The wall, waterproofing and wood and metal remain the top 3 sales contributor for the company. All 3 segments delivered positive growth during the first half. Looking at the sales breakdown by customer, traditional retail outlet account for 92% of sales. On the other hand, our wholly owned distribution center continue to be the main driver of revenue with a 90% contribution. Avian Brands posted a consolidated gross profit of IDR 749 billion in Q2, indicating a gross margin of 40.1%. For the first half, consolidated gross profit was IDR 1.67 trillion with a 43.1% gross margin. The increase in raw material costs contributed to around 1% decrease in gross margin. Additionally, a higher proportion of sales from the trading goods segment, which rose to around 24% in Q2 placed further pressure on the consolidated gross margin. In Q2, Avian Brands registered a consolidated EBITDA of IDR 416 billion, marking a 22.3% EBITDA margin. The decrease in EBITDA margin was primarily driven by the contraction in the gross margin. In addition, the company increased its marketing and selling expense during the quarter in response to the sluggish market condition and intensifying competition, which also contributed to the softer EBITDA margin. For the first half, consolidated EBITDA was recorded at IDR 996 billion with 25.6% EBITDA margin. Moving on to the bottom line. The reported net profit for Q2 was IDR 335 billion with a net profit margin of 18%. In the first half, the company generated IDR 782 billion net profit, resulting in a 20.1% net profit margin. The Architectural Solutions segment maintained a positive performance in Q2, achieving a 7.6% sales growth. Total volume for this segment increased by 10.4% during the quarter. In the first half, sales were reported at IDR 3 trillion, representing a 5.7% increase. During the same period, volume growth was recorded at 7.9%. The Wall segment achieved strong double-digit growth in the first half, supported by our aggressive market initiative. Avian Brands continued to gain market share in this segment and reinforced its position as the market leader in the Indonesian decorative paint industry. The number of transacting customers for the Architectural Solutions segment reached 51,800 retail outlets in the first half, an increase of over 2,300 customers, driven by customer-centric culture, it is our unwavering ambition to deliver the best service and support to ensure we remain a trusted partner in their success. The picture on the right was taken at one of the company's customer catering event in May 2025. These events are held regularly as part of the company's commitment to maintaining a strong engagement with its customer. Through continuous engagement and a clear focus on their priorities, we strive to maximize customer satisfaction and build long-term loyalty. In Q2, the trading goods segment achieved 12.5% growth, generating IDR 445 billion of sales. In the first half, sales were up by 13.8%, reaching IDR 826 billion. Within this segment, the PVC pipes category continues to deliver strong performance, supported by a more favorable competitive environment. Regarding the number of customers, this segment recorded transaction from almost 46,000 retail outlets, reflecting around 82% of the total consolidated customers. This page highlights the performance of gross profit by segment. In Q2, the Architectural Solutions segment reported of a IDR 674 billion gross profit with a 47.5% gross margin. For the first half, gross profit was recorded at IDR 1.5 trillion, representing a gross margin of 49.9%. Regarding the trading goods segment, the gross profit for Q2 was IDR 74 billion with a gross margin of IDR 16.7 -- sorry, 16.7%. For the first half, this segment registered a gross profit of IDR 148 billion with a recorded gross margin of 17.9%. I will now pass to Pak Robert to continue the presentation.

Thank you, Pak Hadi. Good afternoon, everyone. This page presents the company cost structures for the first half of 2025. Operating expenses were stable during the period, reflecting effective cost control. Raw material costs accounted for 28.3% of total sales. On the other hand, direct labor and factory overhead covered around 1% and 2%, respectively. The increase in production costs, especially from raw materials led to a higher proportion of COGS in the first half. Below the line marketing expenses were well maintained, hovering around 8% of total sales. The company continues to optimize its PTL spending. In the first half, trade working capital slightly increased to around 32% of total sales, mainly due to a higher finished goods inventory, particularly from purchase in the trading goods segment. On the investment front, rotating CapEx represented 3% of total sales, while the expansion CapEx contributed another 3%. In total, capital expenditure was recorded at IDR 246 billion. Avian Brands continues to accelerate the deployment of tinting machines at retail outlets as part of its sustainable growth strategy. For the full year 2025, we expect routine CapEx to increase slightly above historical levels driven by this initiative. The combined effect of higher working capital and CapEx resulted in a lower free cash flow during the first half, which accounted for around 8% of total sales. If we turn around our attention to the figure on the far right, you will see that our on-time collection of accounts receivable has slightly declined to around 88%. This condition serves as a further evidence of the challenging market environment faced by retail outlets. However, we take pride in the fact that retail outlets continue to place Avian Brands as at the top of their payment priorities. In April 2025, Avian Brands received shareholder approval to initiate a new share buyback program. This program authorized the purchases of up to 1.4 billion shares with a total budget allocation of IDR 1 trillion and will run for another period of 12 months, concluding no later than April 2026. We launched this initiative following the successful completion of our previous buyback where the company repurchased the full 1.4 billion shares authorized. As of yesterday, July 31, we have reached around 42% of the maximum shares authorized, utilizing around 26% of the total budget. Avian Brands maintains its guidance for the full year 2025 despite the persistent economic slowdown. Regardless of the market conditions, Avian Brands remain in a strong position to gain market share in the Indonesian decorative paint market. Display to the right is our production plan for water-based product at our third factory in Cirebon. The plant is scheduled to be commissioned in early 2026. Currently, the installed capacity of the Cirebon factory is around 200,000 metric tons per year based on 2 working shifts. However, for the first year of operation, we will utilize around 100,000 metric tons and gradually will increase over time. That concludes our Q2 2025 presentation. Thank you very much for joining today's earnings call. I will now pass to Pak Andreas to moderate the Q&A session.

Thank you, Pak Robert. Now we can proceed with the Q&A session which will last for 1 hour. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. There's one question from anonymous attendee. Do you have color on July volume?

Yes. So I think if we go back to what we mentioned earlier that we have a last bit on the month of July because we implemented a price hike on the 1st of August, which is today. However, I think if you noticed, the price hike that we implemented is between 1% to 2%. So when we concluded our July yesterday, the volume as well as the overall demand for our products, the paints category was actually above our expectations. So even though the price hike is quite minimal, just between 1% to 2%, but it seems that the reactions from our customers is very positive. So both the Java customers as well as the Outer Island customers participated quite well to the 3 main segments, wall, wood and metal as well as the waterproofing. Any other questions?

There's questions from Amanda Lai. What drove the higher raw material costs?

Yes. Amanda, thank you for the question. I think when we analyzed the raw material, I believe it is more accurate to also include working in progress and also finished goods inventories in the calculation. And a more detailed breakdown of the number, I think, can be found in our financial report, which we already uploaded to our website on the Notes 27. But I think the main factor for us, the raw material is quite slightly increased is because the U.S. dollar exchange rate against rupiah, yes. So I think by using the approach, the impact of the increase in raw material costs as a percentage of sales, actually, it's less than 1%, Amanda. Thank you.

Thank you, Pak Hadi. Next question coming from Lydia. Do you have any plan to expand merger and acquisition to any other companies or industries moving forward?

Thank you for the question, Lydia. So ever since we went for -- became a publicly listed entity, we never stopped trying to identify potential companies with synergies which could make sense to be included within our ecosystem. We've always been quite strict within that requirement, and therefore, we don't just randomly acquire companies that may or may not fit best with our criteria. So outside of Dextone, which took us a bit more than 2 years to conclude the acquisitions, there are a few more companies which fits perfectly within our ecosystem. So we're continuing to engage with those companies. And even a few investors are participating in reaching out to those companies. So -- but in -- at this point in time, we have not made any deals yet with any of these companies. Thank you.

Thank you, Pak Ruslan.

Maybe just to add, other adjacencies like ceramic tile company for instance, is not within our radar. So we don't want to deviate too far to what we currently do.

Got that. Next question coming from Yvette Sun. How do you see the gross profit margin for the second half semester if we assume the oil price to remain at current level and taking into account the price hike?

Yes. Thank you for the question, Yvette. I think, first of all, oil price is not directly one-on-one impact to our raw material. That's -- yes, for raw material, it's more on the supply and demand factor, which is affect our gross profit. But currently, we are -- we understand that we're navigating to a tough and highly competitive market condition and also compounded by weaker purchasing power, which we believe has led to market construction here. In response, we have chosen to maintain an aggressive stance in our promotional and marketing effort and with the goal to accelerating market share gain, particularly from the smaller competitors. I think as of June '25, our volumes grew by 8% with a double-digit growth in wall paint. So I believe this strategy is still moving in the right direction. But on the other hand, this approach has impacted our margin. We saw a decline of about 1%, 2%. That said, we are fully committed to optimizing every rupiah that we spend. We're continuously strengthening our cost control measure to ensure that every investment deliver maximum impact. So our focus remains on the maintaining healthy profitability. And over the long term, we aim to sustain like a gross profit margin around 49% to 50% for the Architectural Solution.

Yes, I think we are committing to the -- what we basically planned in terms of our gross profit margin -- sorry, in terms of our net profit margin for the year, right? I think we're aiming to hit 21% more or less on that. And we're taking multiple effective measures to improve what we have spent in the previous quarters in order to achieve this target.

Thank you, Pak. I guess that also explain and answer the next question coming from Felix, asking about what is your earnings growth target for this year. It's already explained by Pak Ruslan just now. And then next question coming from Felix again. Could you please explain the integration scheme for Dextone's products? Do you purchase the product from them first and then distribute them through your own channel? Or is there any different scheme?

Yes. Thanks again for the question, Felix. So at this point in time, the -- because we only own 16.7% of Dextone, so the purchase is exactly what you mentioned. So we are just buying them and then we go through our distribution network to sell the products into our customers. Obviously, in the future, we have plans to own more than 16.7%. So we'll see how things go. And by then, then if we are able to own more than the 50%, then things will get consolidated. But for now, it's too early to finalize anything and the products are going through our distribution network. And in the first, let's say, 2 to 3 months more than 30,000 customers have made purchases of the Dextone products through our DC network. And it's -- we feel very confident that we can continue to improve the performance of these products. At the beginning stages, there were a few things that we need to navigate, namely the existing independent distributors that they had previously. So -- but I think we're now at a stage where the ERP system have been fully implemented at their companies and so everything else is in order. So now we have a much better control in terms of the selling prices through their independent distributor and through our DC network so that the price control is already there. And that's why we feel very confident that we will continue to do well within the Dextone products. Thanks, Felix.

Thank you, Pak. Next question coming from Daffa. What's causing the decrease in margin?

Yes. I think as we explained before, because we're still in the market. I think we -- just to maintain an aggressive approach on the marketing and promotional effort, that's why, yes, our expenses are slightly higher compared to the previous period, yes. But I think, again, this is -- I think we move on the right direction because, as you see, our volume still grew even in wall paint, I think we have double-digit growth. So yes, maybe in the short term, the margin will be decreased. But I think in long term, we will benefit with this effort.

Yes. I mean, in addition to that, right, I think what we've done in terms of our strategy to continue to gain market share within the wall paint is showing. So I think we -- essentially, we got a bit too aggressive in the second quarter to see what we can do to gain even more market shares. But corrective actions are being done as we speak so that we can improve our gross profit margin in the third and fourth quarter. And obviously, the price hike that we implemented today will also help.

Thank you, Pak. Next question coming from Danif. New product launches going forward will be driven by market needs or tailored to better align with consumers' purchasing power?

It's a little bit of both actually, Danif. So we always look for products which already exist in the market. That's one. And then we try to make a product which will -- which are better and then we launch into the market. But at the same time, I'm actually going for another market study next month -- or actually this month within Asia to look at what are some of the products that we think could be suitable for the Indonesian market that maybe are not available yet. So it's always a combination. But every time we see products in the market, we always try -- if we are following products which are already in the market, we're always trying to improve the qualities before we launch them into the market. So essentially, we always have a better product offering than what's already available in the market. But other products that we also don't have that nobody has in the market, we also look at these opportunities and maybe, okay, is there a market for this? And when we think that there is, then we launch them into the market. Thank you.

Thank you, Pak. So next question coming from Yvette Sun again. Could you share what is roughly the ASP range for different product category? Just to understand whether the lower blended ASP is related to more contribution from wall paint?

Yes, that's exactly the reason. I don't remember exactly, but wall paint price is maybe 1/3 of waterproofing. You have the numbers, Andreas?

I think wall paint is 1/3 of wood and metal, Pak, and it's about half of waterproofing, Pak.

I think you are right.

Yes, currently blended ASP is around IDR 33,000, IDR 34,000 while wall paint is roughly around IDR 20,000, yes. While other product like waterproofing and wood and metal is IDR 50,000 to IDR 60,000 per kg roughly.

The most is wall paint, definitely, yes.

Based on our internal calculation, I don't know, maybe I'm a bit bullish. We think that now we're between the second, third and fourth player within the wall markets -- within the wall paint markets. We're quite similar. If we used to trail quite significantly, we've made quite a bit of progress in that area. Excuse me.

I think we go to next question coming from Jamie Osman. While we gained market share and achieved stronger volume growth in the first half of 2025, our inventory days continue to rise. Could you please help us to understand the reason behind the higher inventory days?

Yes. I think I can take that and then maybe, Hadi, if you need to add later. So I think we all know that ever since President Trump became into power, right, that tariffs have been probably the most discussed topic in the world. So when we've heard about that, we were quite concerned that there could be some ramifications within the supply chains of Indonesia, however, that may be. And so we decided to basically increase our inventory levels at all DCs. The way we see it, it's better to have more inventory than have less. So when the market is doing -- if we can gain market share from the others then obviously having more products within our DCs will allow us to provide the best service quality to our customers. They don't need to wait and everything else. So that was one of the reasons why we decided to add more on the inventory base. Maybe, Hadi, you wanted to add something else?

I think none from me, Pak, yes. I think that's the reason why we have to increase our stock, yes.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you, Pak. And then next question coming from Daffa again. Number one, have Dextone products contributed to quarter 2 growth? And what is the future projection for this product segment? Number two, what are the management's expectation regarding the impact of global economic slowdown and geopolitical tensions on performance in the second half 2025?

Okay. The first one with regards to the Dextone product contribution to the Q2 is still very minimal. So keep in mind, Daffa, that when we started selling the product in May of the second quarter, right, the first 2 months, we had a lot of issues because the pricing structure before we acquired this company was essentially almost nonexistent. So in contrary to our products and the way we operate, right? We have a proper price list and then we basically -- it's very transparent with all our products that the price list are available everywhere in the country. But this company, because it is quite traditional. So essentially, if you're trying to find any kind of price list before we acquire them, you won't be able to find any. So what does it mean? Well, it means that prices in all the different regions vary a lot. And it depends on how their independent distributors, what kind of profit margin they make and where they are located. So essentially, previously, their independent -- Dextone's independent distributor have the luxury of setting prices, however they want. And that's something that we are changing, obviously, because the way we operate is completely different than that. So now we have a proper price list at all regions within Indonesia. And -- but there was a gap, right, where we are selling it at compared to where the independent distributors were selling them at. So that's what we had to navigate. And it's basically taking us about almost 3 months. So as soon as the ERP system was concluded, okay? So that was the first thing that we did. We knew that we have to install ERP system. So now at the factory level as well as the distribution level at Dextone, both already have ERP systems. So what the ERP system is allowing us to do, obviously, is have very tight control on pricing structures, discount structures and everything else. Because in the past, it was all done manually. So it's very risky in terms of selling to their independent distributors, giving them a wrong price structure and everything else because everything was done manually. So now with the ERP system, we have very good control. So the first -- the month of July was also a bit impacted by that. But we think that the month of August going onward to the end of the year, we will be in a much better position when it comes to the price competitions in the market because now we have agreed on a very fixed price and a very fixed discount structure that can only be sold at the market based on our mutual agreements. On the second one, management expectations. Look, I think we've always been trying to find a sustainable way for us to grow, right? And I think the growth that we've delivered so far, even though we need to do better with the gross profit and net income and EBITDA is something that we know we can maintain for the remaining of the year, right? And the fact that the month of July during the last bite, even though the percentage of price hike was between 1% and 2%, but the response from our customers was very enthusiastic also gives us a lot more confidence in continuing with our growth in the third as well as the fourth quarter. So we feel that the -- any kind of tensions, whether that's locally or even internationally is not going to impact our efforts very much. Thank you.

Next question from Kevin Halim. Any color on the second quarter of 2025 Q-on-Q volume decline considering promotion cost is slightly higher than the first quarter 2025? Is this due to seasonal impact or softer market condition in the second quarter?

Yes. Thank you, Kevin. So it is exactly what you said. It is because of seasonality impact, Kevin. The time difference between Lebaran which happened last year compared to that of this year have some of these impacts. But overall, we think that the second quarter market is slightly better than the first quarter. So the Q-on-Q decline is because of the number of days which are shifting quite a bit. But beyond that, we think that the overall sentiment for the second quarter is better.

Next question from Yvette. For the guarantee buyback product sales, how do you do the accounting? Do you recognize revenue when delivered and book other expense when buyback or just keep us your own inventory for the whole period?

Yes. Yvette, thank you for the question. I think the buyback only happen when distributors stop to become our distributor, right, and they have to send back the inventory to us. So the procedure that we apply is just doing the return, yes. So we book a return in our book.

Yes. So to add to that, Yvette, so in the month of October, we will have one independent distributor that we have decided to terminate. So this independent distributor has performed very, very poorly. And I've given him more than enough time to learn about our products and to navigate their ways in and out. And this is in the Outer Island -- Outer Java, by the way. So what happens is then when we decided to terminate this independent distributor is that obviously we give him about 2 months. So return all the products to us. And as soon as we get the products, we check them all at the warehouse to make sure that the products are all good, and then we basically refund the money. But this type of activity or this type of guarantee buyback doesn't happen very often, right? Because, I mean, if you look at this map, you can see that we only have about 38 third-party distributors. So -- and every -- I think maybe every 2 or 3 years, okay, we then would terminate one distributor that really are not making any kind of progress. This distributor that we decided to terminate have been trying to sell our products for the past 9 years, but the progress at which they've been showing is like almost nonexistent. So I think we decided, look, we don't want to waste their time and let's not waste our time. So might as well just end it. And then that's why we decided to do the product return and that's how it is. But the impact is minimal, Yvette, because they're not doing well at the first place, and that's why the product return is also very small in terms of value.

Continued questions coming from Jamie Osman. With the government rolling out the Village Co-ops program, does Avia see this as a meaningful near-term demand opportunity? And if so, how is the company positioning to capture it?

Yes. Any kind of initiatives from the government, Jamie, always takes a long time. And even then, we don't know how much of that is actually just overpromising and underdelivering or whether they're just going to -- just mentioning. There's a lot of things that have been mentioned within the current President -- under the current President. And we don't know whether things are actually getting done in the market. So -- but the way we see it is this, look, if that can happen, I think it's just a bonus for us because what we're focusing on is just to continue to get from the competitors. So we have a clear map with regards to who are the competitors that we're targeting in all different regions, in all the different segments, predominantly within the wall segment. And that's how we're able to continue with our double-digit growth in the wall segment. We're looking at all these small competitors, what is it that we can do to annoy them essentially and get their markets. And this is something that we feel confident we'll continue to do. Whether the government is continuing with their initiatives or not, that's a different matter. If they are, then maybe we'll be in a better position, right, because we have the products available everywhere to cater to these kinds of demands. And our project team continues to engage with various government entities to educate them so that our products can also be included within the specified products that they approve off. So this is an ongoing process that never stops. But we really cannot see any -- you don't know when the results will come in because of this effect. Thank you, Jamie.

And another question from Jamie. As a follow-up on the question, on inventory days. The tariff issue should affect exports to the U.S. and less so import to Indonesia. Could you please share more about how Avia is affected by the U.S. tariffs?

Yes. We're not. I think that's the short answer, Jamie, because we don't import product from the U.S., right? Most of our raw materials came from, whether it's China, India, Korea, and it's all within Asia. But look, to be honest, maybe I was a bit overterrified about what could happen within the Indonesia supply chain. So immediately as soon as that the news on tariffs were released in the world, I was concerned that, okay, maybe there could be some ramifications that we have not considered, right? Maybe the cost of shipping between islands will go up. Maybe there's going to be something that is happening as a result of this. So there's a lot of maybes that basically led to us, because to be safe, maybe we just increased our inventory levels so that when -- if anything bad were to happen, then at least we will be in a much better position. Because keep in mind that Indonesia is an island, right, it's a nation of islands, right? And even within the DCs that we have, there are some areas which are still quite far. And so I think the way we see it, having more inventory that we can sell into the market is always a better position rather than not having enough because I think we know that we can do well within the Indonesian market. And in order to support that, we definitely do have the inventory levels at the DCs.

And the next -- last question came in from Jamie again, Pak. Would you be able to give more color on what is driving the revenue growth in the trading goods segment at a faster rate than architectural solutions? Is it volume or price driven and mainly from the pipe products? How should we think about the growth in the second semester 2025?

Yes. I think we highlighted earlier, Jamie, that the competition landscape within the trading goods is nowhere near as intense as that within the architectural solutions. So that's the short answer. However, if you think about it, right, PVC pipes which dominate this trading segment is essentially meant for newbuilds. And when the project segment within Indonesia is really not getting deployed much is what we're seeing in the market now, how can the PVC pipe segment continue to grow in double digits? Well, it's the same sustainable strategy. We're just getting it from the others. Because if we are not getting it from the others, it's impossible for the PVC pipe segment to grow because new projects are scarce in Indonesia. Not many are getting deployed. And because of that, not many new homes we think is going to need PVC pipe. So unless we take it from the others, it would have been impossible for us to have a double-digit growth within the PVC pipe. And again, this is where having the wholly owned DCs continuing to allow us to be in this position, Jamie, because the 80-plus percent synergies that the building materials that we have, right, those which are selling our paint products as well as those which are selling our PVC pipe products, right? So I think this also helps to strengthen our position with the trading goods. We also add a few more products, right? Let's say, we didn't have to -- we didn't use to have water hose. But now we started selling water hose. So a few products are being added here and there. And -- but ultimately, the goal is to again just focus on the building material shops. So outside of that, we don't want to cover. And you can see the synergies from the trading goods on the screen, right? Around 82% of our total customers are buying our products within the trading goods, and PVC pipe is one of those. We feel that within the PVC pipe industries, at least on the retail aspects, that we're either #2 or #3. Maybe we're #2 now. But what we cannot determine is the project side because project is something that is really we don't have a lot of visibility on. But on the retail side, we believe that we're either #2 or #3 player in the retail.

So Jamie asked -- thank you for the clarification Pak Ruslan, should we expect more ASP pressure going forward as we work through the inventory?

I don't think the pressure would be coming in from the working through the inventory, Jamie. I think it's more of the product mix, right? So gross margin from the trading goods is definitely smaller. And so we mentioned earlier that the trading goods segment in second quarter contributed to around 24% of our consolidated sales. So if you look at the gross profit margin, which is very different, right, 50% in the architectural solutions as compared to 18% in the trading goods, so any increase which is faster within the trading goods is going to reduce our gross profit margin on a consolidated level. And further, in addition, we are also having a bit of ASP pressures from product mix due to the wall paint, right? So the double-digit growth for wall paint is something that we know we can sustain for the remainder of the year. And the good news, as I shared, right, based on our internal estimations, we think that the #2, #3 and #4 players within the wall paints were very closely tied. So we feel that, well, if we continue with this trajectory, we should be the number -- we should have the #2 positions within the wall paint. So I think this is something that we've always aspired to do. And I think we're on the right path for now. Thank you.

Thank you, Pak. Is there any other questions?

Okay. No other questions?

Okay, Pak. We can conclude this earnings call.

Okay.

If you have any other questions and you have not been answered, please do not hesitate to reach out to me. I will coordinate with the management and get back to you as soon as possible. Once again, we appreciate your participation in our quarter 2 2025 earnings call today, and we look forward to seeing you again in the next earnings call. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Thank you. Take care. Bye.

Thank you. Bye.

Thank you.