PT GoTo Gojek Tokopedia Tbk (GOTO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everyone. This is Joel Ellis, Head of Investor Relations. Welcome to the PT GoTo Gojek Tokopedia Tbk Third Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. On today's call, Patrick Walujo, President, Director and Group CEO; and Simon Ho, Group CFO, will deliver prepared remarks. Following their commentary, we will open up the call for questions and be joined by Catherine Hindra Sutjahyo, our Deputy CEO and Vice President, Director; Hans Patuwo, our Group Chief Operating Officer and President of On-Demand Services; and Sudhanshu Raheja, our President of Financial Technology Services. We would like to highlight that the information presented today has been prepared solely based on unaudited consolidated selected financial information for the 3-month period ended September 30, 2025. We have also submitted and published our consolidated financial statements as of and for the 9 months ended September 30, 2025. As a reminder, today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements about the company's future business and financial performance as well as certain non- Indonesian Financial Accounting Standard measures as complements to the Indonesian Financial Accounting Standard disclosures. Before using and/or relying on these measurements and forward-looking statements, please take note of our disclaimer and cautionary statements disclosed in our earnings presentation and press release. During the earnings call, we will review the results of our operations and earnings presentation, which can be found on our website. Our reporting currency is the Indonesian rupiah, and we will denote the U.S. dollar equivalent by applying an exchange rate of IDR 16,680 to USD 1 based on the middle rates published by Bank Indonesia as of the end of September 2025. We will also refer to adjusted free cash flow, which is adjusted operating cash flow minus capital expenditures. Further, we will refer to adjusted pretax profit, which is calculated starting with loss for the period and adding back income tax expenses and share of net losses from PT Tokopedia. For more information and additional disclosures on our recent business and financial performance, please refer to our earnings press release and supplemental presentation, which can be found on our IR website. With that, I will turn the call over to Patrick.

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I am proud to announce that this quarter, for the first time, our business generated an adjusted pretax profit amounting to IDR 62 billion or USD 3.7 million. We also achieved an all-time high adjusted EBITDA of IDR 516 billion or USD 30.9 million, an increase of 239% year-on-year as well as adjusted free cash flow of IDR 247 billion or USD 14.8 million. Given this rapid progress, we are raising our full year adjusted EBITDA guidance from IDR 1.4 trillion to IDR 1.6 trillion to IDR 1.8 trillion to IDR 1.9 trillion or USD 108 million to USD 113. Both of our major business units, FinTech and On-Demand Services are on track to comfortably exceed their individual guidance as communicated over previous quarters. Group level growth has also been strong, with core GTV growing 43% year-on-year to IDR 102.8 trillion or USD 6.2 billion. Annual transacting users in Indonesia are up 33% year-on-year to 61.1 million, amounting to around 30% of the adult population of the country, demonstrating the sheer scale of our ecosystem. These results reflect continued progress on our strategy to deliver consistent, reliable and cost-effective solutions for consumers while strengthening our position as a preferred partner to driver partners and merchants. Turning to FinTech. We achieved a record quarter with adjusted EBITDA reaching IDR 136 billion or USD 8.2 million, an increase of IDR 201 billion or USD 12.1 million year-on-year. We also saw 48% year-on-year growth in core GTV as transactions increased by 54% year-on-year. FinTech is a powerful growth engine for GoTo. Indonesia's digital payments and everyday financial services have a huge total addressable market, which is significantly underpenetrated, meaning we have much further to run. Our strategy is straightforward: grow user numbers and user frequency at scale through the GoPay app, then extend appropriate credit to active users on the same integrated platform. The GoPay app is proving to be a resounding success as a driver of growth. We are winning in the affluent market, ranking as the #1 e-wallet with multiple premium merchants across categories such as travel and streaming, including Netflix, for example, where we are the #1 e-wallet in Indonesia. As this solid foundation among affluent users is firmly in place, the GoPay app's core focus is on driving growth among mass market users, unlocking the millions of consumers who spend to benefit from Indonesia's digital economy. Success in the mass market is driven by the utility of the GoPay app with features like free transfers and QRIS providing users with services that make a real difference to their lives. We are seeing great success in this space as we surpassed 500 million transactions in a single month for the first time in September with monthly transacting users rising 29% year-on-year to reach 24.2 million. A key driver of this success is the work we are doing to keep GoPay top of mind among consumers. Daily check-ins and over 400 mini games including GoPay Pet, a playful virtual pet experience now reached 24% of monthly active users. Mini games are an increasingly useful tool for retention and everyday usage, and we will continue to focus on this over the coming quarters. As mass market adoption grows, so too does our lending business, a key driver of profitability for the group. The consumer loan book expanded 76% year-on-year to IDR 7.6 trillion or USD 457 million, the largest quarterly increase on record, putting us firmly on track to exceed our full year target of at least IDR 8 trillion or USD 480 million. This momentum reflects the power of our ecosystem flywheel. As more users transact through GoPay, they gain access to seamless, responsible credit and financial products. That said, FinTech's growth is about more than just numbers. It's about enabling participation and trust. We work hard to maintain this by actively discouraging illicit use cases, ensuring GoPay remains a safe, trusted wallet for users as we build an ecosystem that rewards engagement, creates opportunity and supports financial inclusion across Indonesia. Turning now to On-Demand Services. We delivered another quarter of record -- another record quarter of profitability in this segment as adjusted EBITDA grew 115% year-on-year, reaching IDR 336 billion or USD 20.1 million, a new all-time high. However, core GTV growth slowed, rising only 2.4% year-on-year to IDR 16.7 trillion or USD 1 billion, reflecting a tougher operating environment. We recognize that growth is not currently where we want it to be, and improvements must be made. We remain absolutely committed to protecting and growing our market share while accelerating growth sustainably. This means lowering the cost to serve, thereby generating more demand and increasing our scale. Our strategy for achieving this can be divided into 2 parts. Firstly, creating differentiated products for both affluent and mass market segments; and secondly, unlocking further ecosystem synergies. Turning to the former. We know our affluent users value speed and convenience, whereas our mass market users value price. We have started building different products to serve its segment. A good example is the [ 2-wheel ] parameter strategy we implemented in the third quarter. Through this initiative, we implemented everyday low prices at transit hubs for those who want predictable fares and are prepared to wait longer. At the same time, we reduced discounts and improved prioritization for use cases that are time-sensitive, and convenience driven. Early results are promising with 2-wheeler daily commuter transactions in September growing 10% versus June. In addition, we have improved the speed and reliability of our services that cater to the affluent segment. For example, reliability in our 4-wheel services has increased with booking completion rate up 2 percentage points versus June. Delivery times for GoFood have also improved with average actual time to arrival in September 7% faster versus June. Hence, while our mass market offerings focus on lowering cost to serve, our affluent offerings seek to continuously differentiate based on speed and reliability. A third example of our product differentiation strategy is the work we are doing with merchants, another key customer group. Our GoFood merchants have varying growth strategies, and we have been developing promotional tools to help them grow in the way that fits them best. This has resulted in advertising revenue reaching 2% of GMV as well as a 70% year-on-year increase in merchant funded promotions. Turning now to the second part of our strategy, ecosystem synergies. Whilst we have improved synergies over the years, recent reviews make us believe that even more is possible. Our goal is to drive growth by expanding our fleet, making it the best, biggest and fastest delivery network in Indonesia. In this way, we can generate economies of scale that will lower our cost to serve, provide better pricing for our consumers and generate more demand. This will drive income for our driver partners and merchants in a sustainable way. We have recently launched an initiative on this, and we will provide details of our progress over future quarters. As a result of our early successes with these strategies, we expect that the third quarter will be the bottom in terms of [ GTV growth ] with improvements taking shape from the fourth quarter onwards. At the same time, we will continue to monitor our bottom line, ensuring we are growing through product innovation, ecosystem synergies and lowering the cost to serve, making us less dependent on incentive spending. Turning to technology. Throughout GoTo, we are progressively integrating AI across the product life cycle from research and customer validation through design, development, testing, deployment and go-to-market. This will ultimately enable us to substantially improve user experience while reducing time to market and costs. Customer service is a clear area where AI is providing benefits. Automation has helped lift food customer satisfaction by 6 percentage points since the start of the year as initial response times are reduced and resolutions are reached quickly. Pilots in our collections operations are also delivering better connection and repayment performance than third-party tools at a lower cost to serve. In addition, we are now training our go-to large language model. It is more efficient using fewer GPUs, yet stronger than our prior 70-billion-parameter model and integration into current and upcoming products is underway. We are also rolling out an internal platform that gives teams standardized access to GPUs, models and reusable AI components, lowering costs and increasing development velocity over time. Taken together, all these investments compound, resulting in improved customer experiences, lower unit costs and the ability to iterate faster over time, turning technology progress into durable operating leverage for both FinTech and On-Demand Services. In summary, as we look ahead, our focus remains clear. To deliver consistent, delightful and cost-effective solutions to consumers while being the partner of choice for driver partners and merchants. This is enabled by our drive to build world-class operations, underpinned by world-class technology that is fast to market, reliable and cost efficient. With 9 consecutive quarters of core GTV growth, 6 quarters of adjusted EBITDA expansion as well as positive adjusted pretax profit and adjusted free cash flow, we have built a resilient foundation for our long-term value creation. Our team is working with a single goal to make GoTo indispensable in the daily lives of every Indonesian. I am very proud of what we have achieved so far and even more confident about what lies ahead. I will now hand over to Simon to walk through the financial details.

Thank you, Patrick. In the third quarter, we delivered strong top line growth and record profitability for the group. Group net revenue maintained strong momentum, growing 21% year-on-year to IDR 4.7 trillion or USD 284 million, driven by growth across the segments. In FinTech, net revenue grew by 55% year-on-year to IDR 1.5 trillion or USD 92 million. This is fueled by both core GTV growth and loan book expansion of 76% year-on-year to IDR 7.6 trillion or USD 457 million as the ecosystem continues to scale. In On-Demand Services, net revenue grew by 10% year-on-year to IDR 3.2 trillion or USD 192 million, with mobility and delivery at 11% and 10%, respectively. Net revenue growth was driven by growth of advertising revenue, disciplined incentive spend and changes in product mix. In e-commerce, service fee revenue from Tokopedia reached IDR 211 billion or USD 12.7 million in the third quarter, showing solid growth year-on-year. Net revenue growth translated into bottom line improvement, enhanced by disciplined cost controls resulted in recurring cash expenses growing slower than revenue. As a result, group adjusted EBITDA rose 239% year-on-year to IDR 516 billion or USD 30.9 million, making our sixth consecutive quarter of sequential improvement. On a segment level, FinTech adjusted EBITDA improved by IDR 201 billion or USD 12.1 million year-on-year to IDR 136 billion or USD 8.2 million. ODS adjusted EBITDA rose 115% year-on-year to IDR 336 billion or USD 20.1 million, the fifth consecutive quarter of sequential improvement. Group adjusted EBITDA increased, coupled with lower share-based compensation costs drove up EBITDA by IDR 455 billion or USD 27.3 million year-on-year to IDR 369 billion or USD 22.1 million, positive for the fourth consecutive quarter. Improvement in operation results allowed us to book an adjusted pretax profit of IDR 62 billion or USD 3.7 million for the first time in the group's history. And as a reminder, this adjusted pretax profit is net loss for the period, adding back income tax expenses and the share of net losses from PT Tokopedia. We also generated positive adjusted free cash flow, defined as adjusted operating cash flow less capital expenditures of IDR 247 billion or USD 14.8 million for the quarter, a clear indicator of our strengthening fundamentals and efficient capital management. Our balance sheet remains solid. As of September 30, 2025, we held IDR 18 trillion or USD 1.1 billion in cash, cash equivalents and short-term deposits, maintaining the flexibility to invest in technology, product innovation and long-term growth initiatives. We remain highly confident of our ability to meet our revised full year 2025 guidance, positioning GoTo for sustainable, profitable growth in the years ahead. With that, I'll hand the call back to Joel.

Thank you, Simon. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from Ari Jahja at Macquarie.

Well done for the strong adjusted EBITDA. So a couple of questions today. So first on the On-Demand Services. So it looks like GTV growth was softer than expected in the third quarter. Can you please discuss the main drivers for this? And do you see the same trends continuing in the fourth quarter? And then second, on FinTech. How confident are you in sustaining the current loan book growth and stable cost of credit along with delinquencies? And if you do, what will be the leading indicators that are giving you comfort at this stage? I'll stop here.

Thank you, Ari. I will let Hans, our Chief Operating Officer and the Head of On-Demand Services, to address your question about ODS GTV growth in third quarter and also the outlook in the coming quarter -- fourth quarter. And after that, I will have Sudhanshu, the Head of GoTo Financial, to address your question about loan book growth, cost of credit and delinquencies. Hans?

Thank you, Pat. Thank you, Ari, for your question. We agree that the growth in GTV is not where we want it to be. And as shared previously in the call, we do have a clear plan that we are executing to address this. To answer your question, the softness is coming from 2 primary drivers. One is a weaker macro backdrop and the second is more intense competition, particularly in the more mass market segments. It's also worth noting, right, that we are comparing against a higher base since the ODS GTV in Q3 of 2024 went up by about 25%. Nevertheless, if we take a look at Q4, October month to date is looking pretty good. It's showing a positive trend. So we're expecting an improvement from Q4 all the way to 2026. And so we expect the year-on-year growth in Q4 and beyond to be higher than that in Q3. Hope that answers your questions.

Sudhanshu?

Thank you. Thanks again for the questions, Ari. So on the question on loan book growth and delinquencies, maybe let me get started with confidence on where are we going. So I feel very confident in our ability to maintain both the growth as well as the quality of the loan book. Now in Q3, we delivered very strong profitability overall while steadily growing the loan book. In fact, we are on track to exceed our earlier guidance of IDR 8 trillion in the loan book and IDR 300 billion on adjusted EBITDA. Overall, this quarter, delinquencies are slightly higher, but are very comfortably within our acceptable risk limits. And just to add, we provision very conservatively for these, and these are already reflected in the adjusted EBITDA numbers that you see here. Now in terms of the growth in the coming quarters, I think there are 4 key factors which define how well can we do. The first is the ecosystem. We lend to users with a rich history in the GoTo ecosystem, which helps both keep our risk low and gives us the transactional data so that we have a much better sense of the quality of the users. It also helps keep CAC for new acquisition incredibly, now because we see growth on users as well as transactions, I'm very hopeful that the growth on lending can also continue within the ecosystem. The second key factor is our ability to do real-time underwriting. Now our credit models use real-time signals like recency, frequency, spending patterns, et cetera. These data points help us assess both capacity and intent, and we are seeing more and more users coming and using our products, which makes me very confident that we can continue doing a better job. The third is a dynamic portfolio as well as a progressive credit expansion. So all our -- most of our loans, in fact, are short tenure, and we can adjust credit limits and pricing on the fly. This helps us control the risk while maintaining a disciplined growth. So overall, given the key factors, I feel we have a lot of users who are within the ecosystem that we can still lend to and that number of people that we can access keeps increasing. We keep seeing higher transactions from those users, which means we have a much better understanding of their spending patterns. And based on this, I expect growth to continue well, both on the loan book as well as on the quality in the coming years.

Thank you, Sudhanshu. The next question comes from Ferry Wong at Citi.

Congratulations, Patrick and all the management team, Simon and [indiscernible]. Yes, 2 questions from me. One is with regards to your ODS businesses, looking ahead for 2026, how are you viewing your current market share position? And can you please elaborate on the initiative and the synergies, including those mentioned on the call that you are implementing that will allow to compete effectively and drive reacceleration in terms of growth? And then the second question is on your long-term strategy for GoPay partnership, especially in increasing transaction and user volume. Can you please elaborate more on this?

Thank you, Ferry. Hans, can you please answer Ferry's question about our current market share position and our confidence and initiatives to reaccelerate growth.

Sure. Thank you, Pat. Ferry, thank you very much for your question. Look, we have always defended our market share, and we will continue to do so, right? And while we have ample cash in the bank, our strategy is not to try and subsidize our way out of this. And going back to some of the initiatives that was mentioned in the call, we will grow sustainably through our 2-pronged approach, right? First is we will create even more differentiated products for affluent and mass market segments because these 2 segments value different things. And our products for the affluent segment like GoFood Express delivery and GoCar Comfort are doing well and continue to grow. For the mass market segment, as mentioned earlier, we are seeing early traction with our new commuter offering, particularly for the 2-wheel product. This provides very predictable value-oriented pricing at key transit hubs. And so far, from what we have seen over the past 2 months, we have seen that this strategy has increased both GTV and profitability. So we're going to try to replicate this and look for more of these types of initiatives moving forward. The second part of our 2-pronged strategy is to grow by capturing even more ecosystem synergies. Maybe put this way, we have a lot of services inside GoTo and even within Gojek itself. And they ultimately serve many of the same customers. So bearing that in mind and looking at it Gojek wide or even GoTo wide, we have identified quite a bit of opportunities to -- where we can both lower our customer acquisition cost and also increase transaction frequency of existing customers. Though yes, some of these initiatives may take time to scale. So far, the results for the past couple of months have been very encouraging. And we still believe strongly that the year-on-year growth of GTV will continue to -- will accelerate in Q4 and onwards. Thank you.

Thank you, Hans. Sudhanshu, can you please address the questions about GoPay partnerships as part of our long-term strategy?

Sure, Pat. Thank you. So now when it comes to partners, our philosophy is that we are customer-led in terms of how we design products and partner-led in how we scale. We work with large platforms to understand their users and to co-create products that meet their needs and then work with the partners to scale the products in ways that are synergistic for both parties. The goal is always to build long-term value for both ecosystems while delivering real benefits to the customers. Now for example, we launched the Telkomsel Wallet by GoPay, which is now the default wallet inside the MyTelkomsel app. It not only makes payments seamless for all users, but also allows them to receive free funds instantly. Another example is our recently launched co-branded eSIM with Telkomsel. It has the fastest onboarding experience in the country and very affordable renewal prices. It just went live in the GoPay app. It is timely because as you would know, there's a big change in eSIM services that are now available in China, which means there are very strong signals of an eSIM revolution coming even for the low-end smartphones, and we are ready to figure out how do we tackle that. Now based on these examples, what happens over time is that these co-branded partnerships help us expand between -- beyond GoTo's ecosystem to places where consumers are already spending their time. Each such integration compounds engagement and data, allowing us to personalize offers, improve credit models, increase transaction frequencies. The long-term goal is to make GoPay the default wallet for Indonesia, which is trusted, ubiquitous and seamlessly connected across every digital and offline experience. Thank you.

Okay. We will take our next question from Ryan Winipta from Indo Premier.

Congratulations on the very strong results for the third quarter. Just wanted to ask a few questions. I think the first one would be about the potential regulatory pressures. I think this is related to the ODS. Just wondering whether there's going to be another pressure on the take rate as well as the driver income as we have seen in the media. And my second question, I think, is related to I think in terms of the loan. I saw that in the balance sheet, there's additional new loan that has been taken up recently. Is this going to be used to basically to respond to the intensifying competition in ODS? Yes, that's all of my questions.

Thank you, Ryan. On your question about regulatory pressures, especially on take rates and driver income I would like to share with the audience that we have been having constructive discussion with the regulators, the government, not only recently, but this is a discussion that we have been having on a pretty ongoing basis. Last year, during Lebaran holiday, the government and we came up with the holiday bonus scheme, which essentially addresses some of the issues about the status of our drivers and then how we incentivize and reward our drivers for their good performance over the year. And this constructive discussion continues today. We share the government's view that we need to do our best to improve drivers' income and welfare. And our view is that the best way to improve our drivers' income is to increase volume of transactions on our platform and also to drive efficiency and productivity. That's something that we continue to focus. We are experimenting with new products that are addressing some of this take rate concern and at the same time, to make sure that our products continue to be affordable for the majority of our consumers and drive traffic, drive revenue. I think the -- I would say that this discussion will continue. I think both sides -- all sides understand its [ address ] position. And we also have the objective to make sure that the industry is sustainable because there are millions and millions of people who rely their livelihood on these platforms, including ours. And our success is also our driver partner success and also the government success. So we -- I think our interests are aligned. In regard to our new loan facility, I will hand it over to Simon to address.

Thank you, Ryan, for the question. So reflecting our improved financial capacity, last month, we put in place a committed 4-year loan facility of IDR 4.65 trillion, that's USD 279 million. Now the primary purpose was to refinance our prior facility of the same size. And this prior facility was maturing in November of 2025 this year. So we want to ensure that we continue to have a multiyear liquidity to support the business. Just to give you an update, a small part of this new loan facility has already been used to repay the outstanding amount of the previous facility. And the remaining facility will be used for general corporate purposes, which does include investments and also working capital uses. As of the end of September, we have drawn down around IDR 363 billion or USD 22 million from this new facility. So overall, we have an ample cash balance, as I mentioned earlier, of IDR 18 trillion, that's about USD 1.1 billion, and we will remain prudent in our capital allocation. Thank you, Ryan.

The next question on the line will come from Adrian Joezer from Mandiri Sekuritas.

Congrats, Patrick, Simon, for the great results. Two questions from myself. First one is how are you managing the operational and margin implications of serving both the mass market and premium segments in ODS? What impact have you seen from the commuter strategy? The second question is what realized value have you seen from your recent investments in tech development, specifically in the LLMs and also the cloud migration to the overall ODS and GTF business?

Thank you, Adrian. Hans, can you address Adrian's question about how we manage our margins as we are addressing the mass market and premium segments in On-Demand Services. And also maybe give a little bit of highlight of the impact of our commuter strategy or the success of our commuter strategy.

Thanks, Pat. Thanks, Adrian, for the question. So on our commuter strategy, we have been implementing it in our 2-wheel product for the past couple of months. And so far, it has been very, very promising. We're seeing top line and bottom line increases simultaneously as a result of this strategy. And we will continue to scale this up throughout the country and also across multiple products. Zooming out to the larger question of how do we serve the mass market and the premium segments and the operational and margin implications, as you mentioned. I think we do this by managing 2 very distinct and product-led playbooks, right? One that is for affluent and one for mass market because they both are looking for different things. They are, however, built on the same core principles, right, which is how do we achieve product market fit that is specific for that particular segment and also leveraging our entire ecosystem. So for example, on the premium segment, we are looking at use cases where users require speed and high quality of service. And so our premium affluent products and experiences deliver that, though we will touch more for this differentiated value. We will also start to continue to cross-sell pretty aggressively between one affluent use case on speed and quality to another. On the mass market segment, though, the playbook is different, right? There these use cases, our users are looking for price, right? And so to meet their needs, we are creating low-price offerings. However, these low-price offerings are not just by pure discounting, they are actually built on top of lower cost to serve, right, which will make such offerings sustainable, especially in a market where there is a very, very large mass market segment. And customers then typically will have to accept a trade-off such as longer wait times. We're also looking into the deeper ecosystem advantages with GoPay, particularly for our mass market segment as the GoPay and GoPay app does have a large existing base now of mass market users. Now regardless of premium segment or mass market, both of these playbooks though are built on the same core delivery infrastructure, right? So we're then leveraging our single delivery infrastructure to increase the density and the technology stack to serve both of these segments, which helps to keep the operational costs low. So I guess net-net, what we're doing is running 2 different playbooks. They are each differentiated by our users' needs at a fairly granular level. And our delivery for these 2 segments are leveraging the same fulfillment capabilities and therefore, able to leverage internal synergies. I hope that answers the questions. Thank you.

Cat, can you address the question about our investments in tech development, our LLM and cloud migration and the impact to the business?

Sure, Pat. Adrian, good to hear from you again. Thank you. Thank you for the question. So yes, very happy to share what we have been doing right in our tech capability. So let me try to address your first question about what has the cloud migration, the recent cloud migration that we did, how it has been impacting us, right? So as you know, we shared probably in the past couple of earnings call as well that we believe the cloud migration that we recently finished is one of the most complex in the world as tested by the cloud provider, right? One thing I would like to highlight here actually, not only we completed on time, but also under budget. But the most important part of this achievement, if I may share, is actually more like how this achievement helped to boost our team, our technology team confident in terms of our capability to build a world-class technology capabilities. I think this has been really, really a great kind of milestone for us as a company. And then you see how it really affects the morale of the team as well. On top of that, what we would like to share -- happily to share is that we have exceeded our saving target of 50%, 5-0 on our [ op ] expenses so far. This is very, very important why I think as Pat mentioned, and seen the product as well, we believe the key to our future growth is our ability to continue to lower our cost to serve. We believe this is one of the most critical, if not the most critical, our lever for growth, right? Because by us enabling ourselves to lower our cost to serve, this is will allow us to reach and serve more users or increase the frequency of the users because our product inherently fundamentally become more affordable for more and more of our customers. This is really what this cloud migration also greatly enable. Lastly, on this one is the speed. It's not -- obviously, we don't do the cloud migration only for the cost, even though that's a really, really big component of it. But I think what we've seen throughout the process of the migration itself as well as now months after the migration completed, what this process has enabled us is 2 things. Number one, while we are migrating, it helped us to do a lot of kind of restructuring for the lack of better words, right, to make our system become more, how do I say it, efficient for the lack of better word, faster. And now months after the cloud migration finished, we start -- we see it as well in our products today, the load time, everything, it's -- we see those impact that improve the customer experience as well. That's on the cloud migration. The second question you have is about LLM. Of course, every company is not talking about the AI LLM and we shared about our LLM model as well. Yes, we have been strategically deploying AI capabilities to drive innovation and efficiency across our entire business. Recently, actually, we're launching a new model as well, new model LLM is even more powerful than our previous 70-billion-parameter model at the cheaper price. But one thing that we would like to share today, this is, of course, the beginning of this, but we are very -- we are embarking what we call the top-down and bottom-up AI initiatives across the whole organization. What do we mean by that? Basically, we are integrating it across the whole business. On the top-down, for example, we are rolling this model to use on our loan collection practices, loan collection processes. Happy to share the early results, actually shown a very, very promising results. We'll keep you updated on that. On top of that, we also have our new AI-driven customer service. This is to improve our customer experience as well. But on top of that, happy to share that we're also doing what we call in the organization, the bottom-up AI. This is basically we are encouraging everyone in the organization to come up with ideas, what kind of AI use case that can be used, that can be leveraged to improve the internal processes as well, right? So we, as a company, become more efficient as well. This is important why we believe AI is a mindset, right? We are embarking this if everyone in the whole organization think of it that way, how can I leverage myself better. We believe that with the resources we have, we can multiply -- multifold our capability to execute better. So yes, we will continue to report our progress with our overall aim, of course, always to build a world-class technology to improve our customer experience while minimizing our cost -- support costs, having the lowest cost to serve. Thank you.

We will take one final question from Norman Choong at CLSA.

Congratulations, GoTo team for very strong results. And I also appreciate the guidance upgrade and optimism. So 2 questions from me. The first is there were this public demonstration during the first week of September. Just wanted to know more, what are the impact to the businesses from that, some of it has been discussed already from the regulatory risk side of things. The second question is I noticed that GoPay payment and customers are scaling very quickly. Your transaction grew 54% faster than your MTU growth of 20%-plus. Just wanted to know what's behind the acceleration of customer transaction. How do you keep this growth -- kind of growth rate going forward? And how should we think about 2026 growth trajectory for the FinTech segment?

Thank you, Norman. As we all know that in the first week of September, we had about 3 to 4 days of disturbances in the number of cities across Indonesia, including Jakarta. And we saw that during that period of time, the demand for our mobility services in affected area went down, and it affected our overall number for the month. In October year-to-date -- month-to-date, we have seen that our business has returned to growth trajectory. And as we discussed early on, with all the new initiatives to address the need of our mass market users and our affluent segment, we believe that we have seen the bottom of ODS growth in third quarter and business growth will accelerate again in fourth quarter onwards. In regard to GoPay payments growth in customers and transactions, I will let Sudhanshu to address your question.

Thanks, Pat. So on FinTech, our momentum remains strong. MTU is scaling fast with up about 29%. But at the same time, we are also seeing an increase in transaction frequency, which is leading to much higher transaction and GTV numbers. In fact, this turned out to be the first month where we processed over 500 million transactions from our customers. And if you look at it, this is being driven both by growth in our affluent segment and our mass market users. Coming on to the affluent users first. This quarter, we have continued to strengthen our position as the #1 payment provider for premium services. For example, we have the largest wallet on Netflix and many other such high-value use cases. The focus here is on convenience, faster checkout and similar products. Now these users come through our broader ecosystem where engagement in one service, like say, GoFood, naturally extends into others, which helps us continue keeping these users on our platform. The mass market, however, is a different story. It is a new frontier for us and has been a major driver of growth in recent quarters. Our focus here is on access, affordability and simplicity. We are growing here through free transfers, having the fastest QRIS scanner in the app and providing the most affordable bills and mobile top-ups. All of this inside a very small app so that people don't delete it. As a result, our average active user now completes around 20 transactions a month. We are also seeing strong regional expansion. Sumatra and Kalimantan are our fastest-growing areas over the last quarter with transfers in tourist leading the charge. A big thanks, obviously, to digital adoption that's accelerating beyond the major cities in Indonesia. Now to build daily habits and to keep people to keep coming back to our app, we also offer highly engaging games like GoPay Pet. In fact, now more than outside of the pet, there are 400 other mini games that are available inside the GoPay app. And this strategy has worked really well for us. As we mentioned before, about 24% of GoPay app users actively use these features, directly increasing retention and keeping us top of mind. Now the growth of users and transactions that we are seeing on GoPay is also very directly translating into significant expansion of our lending base and our loan book as we can identify and underwrite high-quality borrowers at exceptionally low acquisition cost. In addition, beyond lending and payments, we also offer a comprehensive suite of financial products, including insurance and investments, which means the ecosystem lets us efficiently cross-sell active users into high-margin verticals while increasing their retention on the platform. With all of this, if I look ahead, our focus is on bringing more users by expanding use cases and deepening relationships with existing users. Our strategy has been working well, and we expect strong growth across customers, transactions and our lending portfolio in the coming years. Thank you.

And with that, we will conclude our call. Thank you all for dialing in this evening. It was a pleasure to speak to you all. We look forward to speaking with you again in the coming days and weeks to talk more about our third quarter results. Have a wonderful evening, and good night.