PTC India Financial Services Limited (533344) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the PTC India Financial Services Q1 and FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Priya Chaudhary. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Yes, hi. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Priya Chaudhary. I'm part of the Investor Relations team at PTC India Financial, and welcome to the investor call for a discussion on Q1 financial year '25 results of PTC India Financial. There are a lot of positives that we will be discussing in the course of this call, but let me start with the first. It gives us immense pleasure to welcome our CEO and MD, Mr. R. Balaji, to this call. He is joined by Mr. K. Srinivas, he is the Executive Director; Mr. Sitesh Sinha, he is the Executive Vice President; and Mr. Abhinav Goyal, who is the Vice President. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon all. This is Balaji. First of all, I would like to thank you all for joining on our quarterly call. Compared to what we have been witnessing over the past couple of years, getting back on to the growth part, and our Q1 is significantly better than what it was compared to the preceding year. So the way we would like to take it forward is as follows: Abhinav Goyal, who is the Head of Finance, he would take you through the -- our presentation. And subsequently, I and the rest of the team are here to answer all your queries. Over to you, Abhinav.

Yes. Thank you very much. So I'm Abhinav, this side. So this quarter is a quarter of starts for us, a lot of starts has already been done. So first start is the much-awaited question of our investors when a regular MD will join and now we are having answer. So Mr. Balaji is with us. And second, another question which we frequently used to have from investors is, when the business will start? So this quarter, we are having a INR 566 crores of disbursement. As a result, there is an increment in our portfolio in comparison where we were standing at the end of the last quarter. So our portfolio is increased to INR 5,577 crores. So that is the thing. And in terms of our profitability, our total income has been INR 160 crores. So there is a marginal decline, I should say, in comparison to previous quarter. The major reason is that there was repayment of around INR 1,400 crores in last quarter. This repayment has been reduced now to slightly more than INR 200 crores in this quarter. And as a result of this and with the additional disbursement, there is an increase in our portfolio. Now our profit before tax stood at INR 59 crores for this quarter in comparison to INR 19 crores last quarter. The major contributor for increase in profitability is ECL provision, whereas we were having significant ECL provisioning last quarter, which has been reduced to a reasonable extent this quarter. That's slightly lower than INR 5 crores. Our NIM for the quarter stood for at INR 71 crores. Return on asset stood at 2.77%. Our debt of equity has been improved from 1.54 to 1.4x. So though there is an improvement in our debt to equity, but we are expecting in time to come, there will be upward with the additional disbursement where we quarterly improvement or there will be improvement in terms of more portfolio quality. And we believe that's what our investor is looking for. Now in terms of total income, we are having a total income of INR 161 crores. PBT, I already told, INR 59 crores. Tax expenses are around INR 15 crores, and then earnings per share is INR 0.69 crores (sic) [ INR 0.69 ]. So this is, in brief, the financial performance of the company. I now request our MD to take it forward.

Thanks, Abhinav, for sharing the financials. The way I would like to continue to -- first, I'll give you a brief overview in what the quarter was and what we intend to do in the remainder of the year. That will be the first part. Subsequently, we'll open the lines for any inquiries on your behalf. Like what Goyal said, in quarter 1, we delivered INR 566 crores. To provide a perspective, our disbursement in the first quarter of this year was almost similar to what the company had disbursed in last financial year, because of which the downward trend in our AUM has declined and is a small increment of around INR 170 crores, INR 180 crores in our AUM. Secondly, there was no fresh slippage as far as NPA was concerned, because of which our gross Stage 3 declined by INR 30-odd crores. And as far as NPA is concerned, more or less constant, and our net NPA also came by around INR 2-odd crores per se. We have been able to maintain our yields on our portfolios. There has been an increase in the cost of funds, primarily due to a downward revision of our credit rating, which happened on June 12. But we expect that over the next few months, in lieu of the corrective actions taken by the company and, more importantly, a full-fledged robust management team in place, we expect the reversion to happen in the next few quarters. The couple of highlights of the quarter, one was as far as disbursement was concerned. But secondly, more importantly, we have achieved significant progress and closure in terms of most of the issues that was plaguing the company in the previous years. Now going forward, what we intend to do is, first, stabilize the operations of the company. The way I put it, most of you will be aware of some of -- many of the issues that have been plaguing the company. We have put in place structural mechanisms to ensure that these issues do not recur. Second thing, we'll be focusing on improving the employee engagement because one of the critical things for us as an organization is the quality of the people with a highly competent set of managers. What we intend to do is to enhance the engagement so that we'll be able to go full-fledged out into the market to garner business. As far as business is concerned, I would like to take it on 2 sides. One is on the asset side and subsequently on the liability side. As far as asset is concerned, we'll be focusing on derisking the portfolio. This derisking the portfolio would happen along 2 dimensions as we intend to become -- move towards a full-fledged infrastructure player, so moving into various parts of the infrastructure value chain. And more importantly, across any particular value chain, whether you take energy value chain, we intend to operate across all parts of the value chain, right from generation, transmission and distribution. That is the one thing which we intend to do. Second thing we intend to do is to ensure that our portfolio quality and stability is not adversely impacted by any slippages that could happen in the future. So we'll be focusing on more of smaller-ticket projects which ensures that even the decision-making process is speeded up, and more importantly, each of these projects at an individual level would not have a significant impact on the portfolio. While we do this, we would also focus on diversifying the fund mix. At this point of time, nearly 97% of it comes from the bank. So one thing is to deepen our engagement with the banks so that we get more line from a more number of banks. And more importantly, also get into other sources of funds, like look at mutual funds, it's a very significant area which we intend to focus upon. And the other thing which we intend -- which we are pursuing on which the organization had been focusing on the last couple of years is to enhance thrust on achieving closure on stressed assets. You'll be hearing news about these in the next couple of quarters. We expect significant resolution in our stressed asset portfolios. Through all this, what we intend to achieve is to reduce our gross NPAs or Stage 3 assets both at an aggregate gross level as well as at a net level. And we would -- toward this, we will also be having a relook at our portfolio. While currently, we believe that we are adequately provided for, we do stress testing to see that anything else which we need to do and to ensure that the overall portfolio stability is maintained. This is what we intend to do. And we are also planning a lot of initiatives, but as and when that we will see progression in the next 3 to 4 months and as and when they are finalized, we'll be sharing the same with you. Abhinav, would you like to say anything? Or we can open for questions.

I guess, sir, we open for question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Monica Arora ] from Sharegain Wealth Advisor.

I would like to ask that how do you see the sector mix transforming in the next couple of years, especially in FY '25? And also, if you can share a broader outlook, like according to you, how will the sector perform and your thoughts on the same? So just that idea.

Yes, thanks. Could you please clarify what exactly you mean by the sector mix transforming?

So just -- okay, so how would be the mix between the sectors basically?

At an industry level or at PFS level?

I want to understand it both.

Okay, let me. Second part is easy. We do not want to give any significant forward-looking statements, but I can go as far as the past is concerned. In the past, one of the saving heavily overplayed on thermal a few years back. Now if you look at what has been happening, one, from the energy, things have gone more shifted more into renewables, and thermal accounts only for 6% of overall. But as the larger question is the shift between energy and nonenergy. We believe there is sufficient play for us to operate not just in energy, but also in other forms of infrastructure like roads, wastewater plants, sewage treatment plants and other forms of infrastructure. That's where we intend to go. And if you look at the overall industry prognosis, the government has been investing heavily in infrastructure over the past few years. And even in this year's budget was somewhat INR 11.11 lakh crores, INR 11.11 lakh crores is the amount that government is intending to spend on infrastructure. This, in addition to it, if you consider the investments by the various private sector entities, well, the private sector entities is not very large in comparison to government, we are looking at around the INR 12 lakh crore to INR 13 lakh crore investment in this. The way we are looking at it, each of this piece has got a lot of immense potential, while government primarily is in the area of roads, highways and other sorts of things. But if you take renewables as a play, the potential only in renewables across the country over the next 10 years will be close to INR 15 lakh crores would be the investment that would be required. Then some of it or most of it would be mega projects per se, but that is play across the entire spectrum in terms of projects ranging from 5, 10 megawatts to as large as 5 giga -- to 5 to 10 gigawatts. So that's the play across the entire energy spectrum. Similarly, if you take other parts of the energy value chain, for example, like transmission, while either though the thrust has been on interstate transmission power lines, now going forward, there will be requirements for intrastate or feeder lines per se. So the 2 critical takeaways from this is, one, projects are available across the spectrum from small to large, that is one. Two, investments are being made not only at the generation level, but across both distribution and transmission level. So this is what we are seeing. And if you look at the other aspects also, whether you take a look at other forms of energy in this year's budget, spoke a lot about compressed biogas, and that's essentially converting an adversity and opportunity. As it is, there's lots of organically generated both at the city level and the biomass level in the rural areas. This, in fact, contribute to global warming because many of these decompose, it leads to emission of methane. So through this, we are converting and generating valuable energy out of it. This is something we envisage going forward. Third thing, after a lot of this, there's a thrust on clean cities infrastructure. This means that waste management would be of a priority area, both for the solid waste as well as wastewater. Wastewater, in fact, would be a significant opportunity because India is one of the most water-stressed countries in the globe. So therefore, reusing, recycling what would be a big opportunity that would make immense sense going forward. These are the areas which we want to see. And just to put in a single phrase, we would ensure that our organization's growth areas is aligned with the thrust areas driven by the government in terms of participating across the immediate infrastructure value chain.

The next question is from the line of Mangesh Kulkarni from Almondz Global Securities.

Congratulations, Mr. Balaji, for taking over the new -- as a new MD of the company. You have taken over as MD at a very challenging time when the company is trying to come back on a very -- with a lot of cleaning needs to be happen and executives need to be appointed. So looking at -- I mean, what made you to take this assignment? And going ahead, what are your strategies as far as building up the existing team is concerned and then creating the -- bringing back the investor confidence to the company?

Thanks. Actually, it's not as challenging time as what you have made it out to be. They say the darkest hour is before dawn. Actually, most of the heavy-lifting has already been done by my colleagues who have been in the organization for the past couple of years. We were a prisoner of circumstances, which was much beyond the control of most of the organization. Now with the organization completely onboard, we'll be going back to the growth part. And we are -- the way we are seeing it is we have missed out 5 to 6 years, it's like a bad dream. We'll be getting forward to it. And at least what is -- there's no magic ingredient or sauce. We are in financial services. The only assets the company has are its people. So every day, when the people go back home, the assets of the company come to 0. Basically, the hard assets, furniture, et cetera, don't matter much. So the primary thing is to unleash the energy of the people. If we actually look at what's happened in the past, we've been a power financier. And even if you look at a 10-, 15-year track record of this organization, the quality of the projects that have been appraised and lent is significantly better compared to the industry average. So therefore, we intend to go back to it. Our book has essentially degrown not because of portfolio quality issues. It has degrown because we had stopped fresh lending. Once we get back on to the lending, we'll be able to do it. So the 2 critical things is: one, unleashing the energy of the people; and second, more importantly, winning their trust and credibility with the various other stakeholders, that is the regulators as well rating agencies as well as the larger financial institutions would be the providers of funds for this organization.

Right. Sir, in terms of asset quality, like you've made a statement that very -- and these are in very advanced stage of resolution. So what kind of recovery we are expecting in the current financial year as well as our -- the sanction and disbursement targets for FY '25? That's what I wanted to know.

We would not want to give any such advance figures at this point of time.

Okay. And on the recovery front?

That's an advance figure, right?

Okay. Okay, no problem, sir.

I can tell you, right, very simple is going forward, right, currently, if you take a look at our net NPA, it declined by INR 2 crores compared to March, it's come down to INR 140 crores. What you will see, we'll endeavor that as our balance sheet keeps on growing, as our loan book keeps on growing, this figure does not increase much. So that, as a proportion, it will always keep on reducing. Currently, what, it's around 3-odd percent of our net NPAs to assets. There will be significant reduction. Now the reason why we cannot give a figure for as well a resolution of stressed assets, these are not retail assets where the process is very well defined. And there are lots of cases, so therefore some might proceed faster, some might proceed, plus easier to give an average number. We have the number of -- stressed asset cases itself is low in number. And while we do whatever effort we take, there are circumstances and things which are beyond our control, that it's not possible. We know whether it's feasible or not, that we are aware. But whether it would fructify in 3 months or 6 months or 9 months, it is not possible for us to give an authentic figure on that.

Okay. Okay, sir. And what is our current outstanding sanction book?

The loan book -- this is Sitesh Sinha. So our loan book is INR 5,600 crores, right?

Right. So sanction this quarter, INR 525 crores, new sanctions were there. So total outstanding sanction book?

Outstanding, we have another INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores to be disbursed. So that is the inhibition we have in sanction. We are creating new pipeline.

The next question is from the line of [ Kashmira Patel ], who is an individual investor.

What would the NIM guidance for FY '25 look like?

See, so currently, if you actually look at it, NIM, there will be a decline in NIM guidance. It's very simple because currently, our debt equity is low. As we start growing faster, our debt equity would increase, therefore, the NIM would come down. So our thrust would be focusing on projects which are better in quality, although the lease could be relatively lower. So that's what we intend to do.

The next question is from the line of [ Manoj Pandey ], who is an individual investor.

I welcome Balaji as the new MD and [ CEO ]. And I would like to mention that in the last 5 years, while other finance companies were growing at the rate of 20% to 30%, this company has been declining their loan book by 20% to 30%. Now I know that you were here since last only 20 days, you must have worked out some strategy. And we, as an investor, we would like that the opportunities which we have lost is recouped very shortly. So what is your strategy, sir? Can you please open up?

See, the strategy is still being worked out because it's easy to do things and tougher to undo them. But essentially, if you want to look into it, we'd like to divide it into 3 parts. The first part is to ensure that most of the issues that have been affecting or plaguing the company in the past few years does not recur. These are primarily procedure, not related to some sort of governance. We've got notices from SEBI and few other regulators, et cetera, taking together -- putting together processes and structures in place so that they do not repeat in the future. Now secondly, linked to this, because of what has happened in the past, we saw, for example, there have been issues with other regulators. We lost the trust of financial regulator that is RBI. We have also lost the trust of the rating agencies that we have been downgraded compared to the earlier ratings. Therefore, the second set of action would be taken through our story, what we intend to do, build reassurance amongst them so that they are convinced that we are a great company. Now paradoxically, if you look into it, right, despite the troubles what the company has had, our capital adequacy has in fact increased. Our capital adequacy is well in excess of 40%. So therefore, from a point of view of capital strength, our ability to service existing borrowings, it's very, very high. So whatever issues that the company has faced, it has got nothing to do with its financial results proceed. Our portfolio is very clean compared to the overall industry averages. So therefore, there are no -- if one could see any hidden connections as far as the financial statements are concerned. So we are entirely confident that if the governance aspect is resolved in the next couple of months, and subsequently, they build trust to the regulators. Third, getting onboard that team's commitment, getting them aligned on to the thing. We'll be working out a plan. And by the next few months and if we're ready, once the Board approves it, we'll also be able to share it with external call. Once we start implementing it, that's the time we will receive. One of the things at least we can relatively say is we intend to focus quarter on -- growth quarter-on-quarter. That's what is given. The growth might be high or might be lower depending upon the nature of business, which we are in, right? The lending is always bulky. We are not a retail organization. But the degrowth, which has been witnessed on a quarter-on-quarter basis for the preceding 2, 3 years, that has stopped. The first quarter was a beginning point. But going forward, that's what we intend to do. We'll be doing that.

Okay. I think you have got a clean slate right now because the books have been clean, the management has been playing. And now one is the growth phase has to be -- growth stage has come, which as you're now the leader, I think, we would witness good days ahead.

The next question is from the line of [ Akshay Varma ], who is an Individual Investor.

So here is my question that we see a good improvement in provision and contingencies on Q-o-Q basis. So can you please throw some light on this sizable change? And what would our guidance be for the same -- for the year FY '25?

Thank you, Akshay. Thanks for participating. I'm Abhinav, this side. So last, we -- as you may be knowing that we are showing an ECL methodology, expected credit loss methodology. So whatever the provision is to be provided, we are providing it upfront in our financials. Last quarter, we observed that in one of the accounts, some provision additions, I mean, I should say, has been provided, which is provided. But now this quarter, we impact our portfolio and observe that nothing more has been provided. And in line with the policy which we are following consistently over a period of time, whatever the additional required, which was the INR 4.77 crores, has been provided, right? So that is a consistency as per the policy which we are following. Now in terms of the guidance for financial year 2025, as MD sir has said, that is too early to come out. We are introspecting ourselves. And probably in time to come, we will come out with a clear guidance.

Yes, yes. Got it. And also one more thing that what is the comfortable level of debt to equity according to you for FY '25?

So debt to equity, as you know, that we are already more than comfortable like at 1.4x. And as far Reserve Bank of India, we've been allowed in multiples of 1.4x. So that is the cushion being available to us for the addition business, and that is the comfort being available to our active investors.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Kashmira Patel, who is an individual investor.

And I wanted to have like a brief on guidance for disbursement as well as return on asset as well as equity for FY '25.

We said earlier we don't want to give any guidance, right?

Okay.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Manoj Pandey, who is an individual investor.

Sir, I have one more question. I wanted to know, there are 6, 7 LCA accounts. Out of which accounts are on the verge of resolution in this quarter or in quarter 2?

See, that is internal information. We are actually pursuing all options in terms of pursuing legally, forcing through the insolvency process, pursuing a [ no PFS ], almost all of them. As you know, right, the time lines in the country get elongated. It is very, very tough to see what will get resolved by quarter 2. What we can see...

Sir, the previous quarter, management also gave information. I want to be sure if the accounts are on the verge of resolution.

See, look, we have got 2 options. The whole management is to give the guidance and have a decline in the book, whereas we have started having a growth in the book. What do you want? Do you want to give the guidance and want...

No, no. No, sir, not the guidance...

See, the reason is until something definite is concerned because there are lots of impediment. The legal process within the country is not very streamlined. And there are a lot -- again, when we think the issue is resolved, it would happen. So what we have done in that is to ensure that our financials are not impacted. We have earlier to ensure that we have provided an impairment reserve in terms of -- if you look at the balance sheet of FY '24 also as far as this, around INR 115 crores, INR 120 crores we have provided for it. That will take care of it. What we can say going forward, right, we expect in the next 9-odd months at least around 20% to 30% of our stressed assets to be resolved by March '25. That we can tell you. Whether it happens in quarter 2 or quarter 3 or quarter 4, that's not possible at this point of time.

The next question is from the line of Debashish from Svan Investments.

So 2 questions. Number one is on the debt to asset side. I'm very sure that you are also aware, most of the finance companies operating at 3 to 4x of leverage. So just trying to understand what is the leverage target that we have in our mind? That is one. And second question is, if you look at the way you explained your target markets, on the one side, there is a huge amount of growth opportunity that is completely agreed. But on the other side, I got a little confused when you said that you will only focus on small ticket size businesses. So just trying to get some sense, what is your comfortable ticket size there? So these are the 2 questions I have.

Thanks, Debashish. I'll come to the latter part of the question first. See, if you look at historically, right, in 2018, the company's book was close to INR 14,000 crores. That was the peak it had reached. And even at that point of time, the largest project that was funded was some INR 400 crores, INR 450 crores, which meant the largest project was around 3%, 3.5% of the overall book size, not more than that. Now if you look at it today, at the end of quarter 1, our book size is INR 5,500 crores. So obviously, if you do INR 400 crores, INR 450 crores, it's a significant risk which you have. And it is -- and actually, if we do INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores, it's easier to pick up, but we are creating a risk. So we want to ensure that no fresh disbursement is more than 5% of our AUM at any point of time, from now going forward, meaning fresh sanctions on loan disbursements. Now coming back to your former question, you're right, financial -- 1 is 1.5 is to 1, the debt equity is very, very low. Financial organization operates only on leverage. So therefore, if we are able to execute our plan successfully, we should be able to achieve, in the next 18, 24 months, come to significantly higher number, possibly doubling of the debt/equity ratio. That's what we intend to do. The important thing is, while we are choosing small projects is, one, if you're going to the larger projects per se, obviously, in view of the current where our rating is not very high, therefore, the large projects are funded by very large financiers. We need to take a significant takedown of our margins if we have to be a participate in it. But it would add to the AUM, its ability to add to the bottom line, which will be very, very limited. Therefore, we want to be in a sweet spot wherein when we finance the projects, its risk-adjusted return is high, its ability to impair the balance sheet is limited and more finally, more importantly, the margins that accrue for us is significant so that we're able to grow in a profitable manner.

Understood, sir. So is it fair to assume that going forward, our growth will be high and our NIM will keep on coming down? Because the current NIM that we report end of the year, on that number, it is very difficult to fund projects, good projects in power and infra space consistently. So is it a fair assumption that our NIM will come down and growth will be aggressive?

Currently, the NIM is high also because of the low debt to equity. So once the debt to equity keeps on increasing as we start growing, the NIM is coming down. And the second thing to your first question in regards to growth per se, right? In this industry, there's always a significant amount of prepayments. When you're restarting the growth, it will take some time. So the way we would like to call it, year '24-'25 would be the year of stabilization, wherein internally, the organization is geared up in terms of processes, practices, capabilities to get out into the marketplace, then we grow. Obviously, we're at a low base. So automatically, it will be growth. But significant growth would be happening in the 2, 3 quarters down the line, once we are getting ready because at this point of time, the critical task for us is liability management. Once we build confidence amongst the various financial institutions, whether the banks or others, then we'll be in a position to go out into the market and can [ take ] larger projects. That's what we've been focusing on in the next few quarters.

Sure, sure. Okay. Sorry, sir, one last question. So obviously, you have joined very recently, you may not have got sufficient time to analyze everything. But as far as our manpower capability is concerned and our risk management system is concerned, do you think that we are properly equipped in both the 2 cases to first analyze and then grow?

I think I had referred this earlier also, our portfolio quality is good. For example, we are primarily a financial in the power sector. If we actually look at the RBI publishes annual banking statistics report and the increase in the power sector for the past 10, 15 years. And if one looks at the NPA percentage of PFS, that will clearly show that we have been significantly much better than the average. So therefore, the quality of the manpower that we have got is amongst the best in the country. So there's no doubt about it. We got derailed because of certain extraneous issues. And once those constraints are removed, we set in place, build the engagement and we start going back to the market, there is no reason why growth should not be coming back to us.

Okay. And do you -- sharing this number, sir, what is the current NPAs under -- in the process of resolution and how much is provided for?

No, like what we have given at the end of the day, that's okay if we can actually look at -- yes, and the presentation is there, right, Stage 3 assets and the net Stage 3, et cetera, that will be possible to bring.

[Operator Instructions] The next follow-up question is from the line of Debashish from Svan Investments.

Just taking this opportunity to ask a few more questions, sir, as there is no much question on the queue. So sir, again, as far as the macro this thing is concerned, there are 2 or 3 players in the name of PFC, REC were also acting in the same space which you are in. Obviously, the size is a bit different. So do you think that there is a sufficient space for a third player? Because if I talk to those guys, they are talking about very aggressive numbers of 15%, 20% growth on a very large book of like INR 4 lakh crores, INR 4.5 lakh crores, INR 5 lakh crores. So do you think that there is a sufficient space? And my sense is that banks will also come back into funding corporate books because there is a pressure in retail than unsecured. So is there a sufficient space for us to get the growth back then we are targeting?

That's a good question. See, the important thing is if you said they got INR 4 lakh crore, INR 5 lakh crore balance sheet size. And that's the reason when we'll be focusing on large projects where the typical disbursement is in the thousand crores, around the few tens of thousands crores. That's what we have been doing. And therefore, there are a lot of small distributed projects also coming in, which would be anywhere between INR 50 crores to INR 200 crores. And they would not be much focusing much on them, and that's what we intend to focus upon. To your question, we are a credit staff country that pays for lots of people in the country. There's possibly space for a couple of more PFCs. So if you've got lots of money, you can set up an infrastructure finance company, it will be great to get into this space at this point of time. Budget also, right? Even government is spending INR 11 lakh crores on to this. Plus private sector CapEx is taking off. Even renewables, et cetera, is mostly in the private sector at the moment. So that you -- we are infrastructure deficit country, it's a great space to be in with a 10-, 15-year perspective.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Balaji Rangachari for closing comments.

Thank you all. So basically, you have listened to quite a few calls in the past few quarters. Possibly after quite some time, this is the first quarter where we have witnessed a small uptick as far as the AUM is concerned. What I would like to reassure you is that the company is excellently poised. Once we do the internal correction structural changes, we'll be getting back to the growth part. It's not a question of whether PTC Financial Services will be able to execute a successful turnaround, but the question is when. We are clear about where we want to go. And the question is whether we'll reach to our goal in whether 18 months or 24 months, but definitely we'll be able to do so. And we thank you for your interest in our organization. Thank you. Good day.

On behalf of PTC India Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.