PTT Public Company Limited (PTT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hope that you are well this morning. So good morning, once again analysts, the investment fund manager, the executive and PDD staff. My name is [ Bernd ] from IR PTT. So I would like to welcome you to Second Quarter Analyst Meeting of 2024. And right now, we organized a meeting in a physical form, which would be held twice a year, so that the analysts can meet with our executives. So there will be 2 sections. The first section the CEO Dr. Kongkrapan Intarajang, he will talk about the operation results of second quarter and first half year of 2024 and the second session is -- will be about the QA. So if you have any questions, you can use the Q&A to ask and microphone is on the desk in front of you. So right now, may I introduce our management, which -- who will report performance and do the Q&A. So the first one, Dr. Buranin Rattanasombat, Chief New Business and Infrastructure Officer. The second one khun Noppadol Pinsupa, Chief Operating Officer, Downstream Petroleum business group. The third one khun Wuttikorn Stithit, Chief Operating Officer Upstream Petroleum and Gas business group. The fourth one Khun Pannalin Mahawongtikul, Chief Financial Officer. And finally, Dr. Kongkrapan Intarajang, CEO and President. The first session I would like to give the floor to Dr. Kongkrapan, CEO of PTT.

Good morning, the analysts and all participants. So today I would like to talk about the performance in Q2 and the first half. And I also would like to touch upon the strategy we just held the Board of Directors meeting regarding strategic plan. So I would like to relay the to you. And then after that, I would focus on the highlights and the agenda that perhaps are in your hand right now. So first of all, the -- regarding our vision, last time when you were here, probably we did a lot of -- a few introductions. And right now, we will talk in details and then we will submit it to the Board and then translate it into the plan. So let's say, our vision has been adjusted. And right now, it is together for a sustainable Thailand and sustainable world. And this is very important, and it will be used to share our direction. So when we talked about strength, it means the country will also be strong and PTT will also be strong at the global level and then there will be a balance between business and ESG, environment, social and governance. And our mission is to operate the energy and other related business comprehensively. So as a national energy company, we are mandated to manage both the cost and the performance. And we also take care of stakeholders in a sustainable way. So this is our theme, and you probably noticed the external factors, whether it's about geopolitics, the world economy and the energy transition and oversupply, which can be witnesses in many sectors. And internally, we also analyzed our health and we pinpoint balancing stakeholders' interest, fragmented investment and the -- another thing that is a result of the feedback from investors and our shareholders is the fragmented investment and the feedback is it should be more substantial and the fact that we are a national energy company. So security is very important. So it does not mean that we can procure, but our cost must competitive. And besides procurement right now, there is not a certain issue anymore because of geopolitical issues because of the war. So for this year, we are back to basics. We have to do what we have got to do, mainly focusing on hydrocarbon business. You can see that major oil companies during the past 5 or 6 years, the main concern was the energy transition. So everyone was experimenting, we went diversifying our business. However, right now, we are refocusing, but we are not going to do the same way. And so we will focus on the hydrocarbon business because it's the profitable business and hydrocarbon has an important role. However, we have to do together with decarbonization. So for example, Chevron and Exxon -- they also do a lot of investment in decarbonization at the same time as conducting the petroleum business and -- we also will continue doing our business as well as reducing the GHG. And we also invest in the CCS, the carbon capture and we will continue doing other business, but we'll focus on highlights on the right-to-play business. So of course, that business has to be substantial and we are very -- we are good at that business. And this year, we will try to clean up our portfolio, both hydrocarbon business and non-hydrocarbon business. The business that used to be profitable. And because of the transition, the global the change at the global level. So what used to be very good right now, probably we need to find a partner for -- in order to strengthen our collaboration and -- so this year, you will see more our activity in refocusing. And for next year 2025, with regard to operational excellence, we are very good at this, both PTT and the subsidiaries. So we will focus on reducing cost of investment. We can introduce more technology in order to achieve the transformation, and we have enough money in order to achieve the bottom line. And in terms of growth, we will drive growth, which is substantial. And at the same time, we need to incorporate sustainability in our business and just a while ago, I talked about our hydrocarbon business. Of course, right now, we are still able to procure low-cost source. So we invest in the hydrogen, in carbon capture and storage. So we try to introduce sustainability into our business plan. And in terms of direction, as I said, before to underline the energy security underlying the growth and at the same time, reducing GHG. And so EBITDA has to grow at the same time as GHG reduction net 0 by 2050. And we cannot achieve this goal without carbon capture. So it is our plan to do this within an appropriate harm frame and cost of investment. So for existing business, hydrocarbon and non-hydrocarbon businesses, I will go into details later. For hydrocarbon business. So the -- what is really important is the cost competitiveness. So for example, in our upstream business, we have to secure more sources and for PTTEP. So the its cost is quite competitive. So PTTEP has to find more sources and our EP, E&P business, they can continue doing business overseas. And we also have our trading arm. And with regard to the power business, it is quite clear now. We have 3 mandates. The first one, it will help the carbonization of the group. And so -- and for the foreign investor investment, we will also continue doing that. And regarding the P&R for the petrochemical business, the supply will be over the demand for a while. So we need to adjust our portfolio. And with regard to retail, I will go into details later. For the non-carbohydrocarbon business, there are 2 things. The first one what we will invest, we have to be very interesting in terms of economics. We need to be profitable, the competition must not be too high. And the second one, whether we have the right to play. So if everyone can go into that business, probably is not the choice because if you have money and then everyone can rush into business, let's say about the EV business, the charging business, we have OR, we have reach, we have touch points. So we are thinking about the synergy. And for the logistics business, we will focus on the synergy because we are the user, we are the customers. So we have to find synergy and I'm thinking of optimization in this business and we do not need to put more in a form of assets. We can, for example, find partners and for the lifestyle business, I think this business is still have bright future, and you asked whether we have the right to play or not? Well, no. But when we invest the business, it's quite profitable. And so we are thinking putting the right man at the right place and be an intelligent investor. The target is be able to sell funding, find the partners and after a while, the business can be spinned off. For the net zero, I will give you more details about it. But it's on the decarbonization and carbon capture. So this is going to be the new business which is substantial for our P&L and for the country as well. When I say substantial, it can be stand-alone, but it can justify our hydrocarbon business. So we can make money from it. If the return is not lower than the cost of our capital, then it's going to be good, and we can build upon our existing business. Like hydrocarbon business, we can say, yes, we can buy carbon credit. Yes, that's right, like $20, $30. But in the end, we would have to focus on our sustainability and our responsibility. So trading will help cut down the volume of CO2.. You don't have to buy carbon credit, but you can invest in CCS or something else. For sustainability, I previously mentioned about the integration of all of our business units. The enabler, which is quite important, operation excellence. We have a lot of money in here in PTT the whole group. So our bottom line is to incorporate operational excellence, people important foundation, good governance and financial excellence. Now just to elaborate more, 1 liner, 2 liners, PTTEP CEO and the President of all the major subsidiaries, we just sit together and discuss among each other, all of us. For PTT, we know that we have to focus on good partners, good technology, good access do what we are strong at, expand our operation, cut down our financial costs and all the production costs. And we also have to pursue our OCA for PTT, the gas, we have the impact on the pool gas PTT, we can do 2 things. The first thing is to work closely on the contracts. And what we can achieve right now is to create cost competitiveness business can start this right away. We also have to work closely with regulators. We see good progress with the Ministry of Energy and the regulator. And for more progress, we can update you more in the future. For the LNG, this is one of our important business units. Thailand, we have 50% of gas domestically, but the others, we import from overseas from Myanmar and many sources. So PTT, we have to be good at the procurement of LNG. We have to make sure that the value chain is efficient. When we secure the sources, then we do the trading both the gas and the oil. We can do just outbound, inbound out trading. And in Thailand, we have infrastructure, which is quite appropriate to create good infrastructure to expand the customers base to other countries. So this is our strong opportunities for new growth. For the palmer business decarbonization for PTT Group is quite important. In the past, we might not be so clear in this area for the chemical and the OI businesses, they said they have to have the plan to secure a clean fuel, green power. And now we are clear that GPSC have to maintain reliability and help the group to -- for decarbonization. Going to the mix fuel, which is greener and greener, but at the same time, balance with our economic aspects. We cannot just use hydrogen 100%, but we can start gradually starting from gas, retire more and more coal, mix with hydrogen, SMR. So GPSC would have the mix of fuel, that would be more and decarbonized compared with the cost of production. All the subsidiaries like gas separation units or PTT, customers of GPSC, they don't have to worry with scope 2 -- decarbonization of Scope 2, GPSC would do it gradually. For our investment overseas, it would be our opportunities that GPSC has to create the balanced portfolio, which balanced the growth and decarbonization like PTTEP in the past, they were quite similar in philosophy of business management. PTTEP is around here with the strategic partners, they are doing better and better and then going overseas. We see a lot of investment of PTTEP overseas with a lot of good return, and we can gain knowledge also. GPSC would do the same thing. They would start i.e. in overseas, but they would get themselves well prepared for more decarbonization and more balance of the portfolio of GPSC. And if, GPSC can give you more details, concerning various strategies. Now to petchem and oil. P&R is to reshape the portfolio for the high-value business, we would define which one is high, which one is not. And what is more important is to find reliable partners who can contribute both domestic and overseas, like GC that would have more and more partners overseas. To trading, we can see more opportunities cut down the risk level for OR. I think they are going to have clear and clearer strategies. And for the mandate, OR would be Thailand's mobility partners. We have to move anyway. So OR have to have the mix of fuel oil, more EV, more hydrogen in the future. It depends on our strategies, formulation, considering the worthiness and the strategies. Investment plans have to be more efficient with asset-light portfolio and also how OR can create opportunity with substance. PTT Group, we try to be clear on our substance. We have a lot of profit. And then we compete with the supply chain, probably it's not the case. We want to grow together with the Thai society and we have to prepare the platform. We won't subsidize all the time. We would do something good with our own substance and also to promote the eco-substance and to benefit the SMEs, which is near to us. Market share, we also cannot forget this, and we have to strengthen the market position. That's the business of OR. Non-hydrocarbon business for EV, it's going to be the megatrend. But fast changing with the competition from China. So we have to revisit our strategies. We would like to focus on charging entities with not much investment using our existing infrastructure and find our strong points in our entities. What is important is that we can use AI and models to strengthen our strong points to logistics, either polymer, gas, pipe storage and that we can find more and more strategic partners, and we don't have to inject money only because we have the asset already, we can find the partners to monetize. For the life science, we want to grow more and because we are the oil company before we make the decision, we have to be very careful and sometimes we need the spinning off, utilize the experts with a PE mentality to help us before we invest. But we have to be very careful and make sure that we have the right to play in this business. And because now we see that some are the missing piece in Thailand business, so that's why we want to be very careful. At the same time, we have to do the decarbonization, we try to cut down both in PTT and our subsidiaries, now we can cut down about 10% to 20%, and then we have to adjust our portfolio like a GPSC that would switch to more and more non-hydrocarbon PC, they also try to adjust that portfolio. PTT also can do the same. I think half of half of the portfolio has to go -- has to be done through reforestation and carbon capture. I'm not sure whether you have already seen this slide or not. However, it is very clear now that CCS and hydrogen, the top and the bottom, actually, it sounds like it's separate, but it's the same thing. So just a while ago, I tried to -- I just told you that we try to reduce the GHG yet, we need the capturing technology. So together, it will be able to reduce CO2 emission in our portfolio right now, whether we now how much we have done. For example, hydrogen, there are so many ways to reduce it and CCS, there are also many methods to capture the CO2, but right now, we don't have the exact details yet. And then that is also the cost of carbon purchase, the carbon trading. So if all of this the GHG reduction, the cost is higher than buying carbon, then probably this is also something that we need to consider yet. Another factor is that we have been mandated by the Thai government, the entire country does not consist of us. There are other industries, the cement plants, the power plants and so on. Yet PTT has to start first and the pace of our activity will be in line with our investment. Regarding the capture, of course, whoever release or emit carbon, they have to have to capture it. It is an opportunity because under our group, we emitted 40 million and about half of it we can capture, and this is -- and when you consider this, this is quite a big business, right? It is a very big business, and it's not only in Thailand and you can go worldwide and of course, it may not take place right now at present. So our subsidiaries are the companies who use it, PTT also used it, and we have ability enough to invest in it. And in the middle to capture the carbon, these carbon is liquid. So you have to capture it in the pipeline. And so we have a role to advocate. And right now, there are no laws and regulation governing it. So we can play as an orchestrader, as a leader. And finally, PTTEP is very good, and they are having a sandbox involving about 1 million tons. So they take it out and then separate CO2 by keeping it in depleting sites. And then the other method is to inject CO2 and then to keep CO2 in liquid form. So this is PTTEP's Sandbox projects. The volume may not a lot. But what will be actually -- what may be actually implemented will be near shore sites, so on the top line, you can see that we have a very distinctive roles in terms of companies. And at the bottom, in terms of hydrogen, we can separate hydrogen and then use it as power and the cost -- the cost is quite high. So we start by the blue hydrogen joint venture for blue hydrogen, and we are eyeing the Middle East and the U.S. opportunities. So PTTEP will be a leader because the PTTEP has the partnership with several players. At present, Thailand may not have demand for hydrogen. So the PTTEP can use it can collaborate with partners and then sell the products. So in the middle, you can see that PTT can develop infrastructure in line with the regulation. The Ministry of Energy has a plan to mix hydrogen into the gas into the fossil fuel, and you have to have infrastructure to do that. And so we will develop infrastructure. And when I talked about hydrogen, I'm talking about in and at an industrial scale. So this is -- this means hydrogen being used at the factories. So when we are able to achieve these weaker scale industrial scale, then the small-scale consumption will follow. So we will work with the public sector. So if more and more hydrogen will be mixed with the fossil fuel, of course, the infrastructure will be able to accordingly aligned with such demands. So once again the investment will be appropriate, will be reasonable. So not only that the business will help decarbonization, but it also a business opportunity. Hydrogen is a clean energy. So having an infrastructure is not a bad idea at all. Next, for the operation excellence, I have already talked about it. And later, we will have a clear plan in terms of dollars and regarding people and digital transformation, these 2 issues are simultaneous, meaning that they come together and of course, we introduced digitalization to reduce coss and at the same time, enhance organization efficiency. And this slide is a summary. And yes, we will continue expanding business and at the same time, focusing on decarbonization. So for performance highlights, for our drivers, you are very familiar with it Dubai pool price and the price you can see right here, the price for the pool price is down just a little bit. Regarding the petrochemical industry, the situation is not that good. HDPE, the margin is quite low. For the aromatic industry, the outlook is a bit better, so for the petrochemical industry, we still need to find partners. For key performance for Q2 and half on half, the performance is much better. The operation is better. With regard to the oil, the petrochemical and the refinery business, the stocking is quite healthy. We also have gain on extra items, COO will tell you the details. So overall speaking, net income from our business main business are better, yet we also take advantage from extra items and exchange gains. For our key activities and for PTTEP, based on its strategy, the company acquired shares in the wind farm project, about 1.1 gigawatt and then also acquire stake in UAE, and this is its original plan. And for the LNG, the deal has already completed. EGA get holds 50% of the stake. For Avaada Energy, GPSC also expands its business. And the direction is the same as us, that is GPSC expand its business and at the same time, look at the entire portfolio. And in terms of awards and recognition, we got the ASEAN Excellence Award, best CEO, best CFO and today, it will be Khun Pannalin's last meeting -- last analyst meeting before she retires. And regarding the dividend, we have already filed the report with the SET. The dividend per share is 0.8, which is equal to the interim dividend payment last year. With regard to the outlook, there's only one page. With regard to GDP, I am not sure, whether we have a new government yet for new Prime Minister yet for today. And you can see the gas price is down for the oil price. The outlook is more or less the same. And for GRM is down compared to last year. For the petrochemical industry HDP, which is the main factor. It remains low. The PP also plus benzene is also good. With regard to the guiding indicator for the outlook, the E&P, the volume increased, the unit cost remains the same. And some sites, they remain profitable, but the cost per tonne may be a little bit down. And for gas, the margin is not that good yet. Demands are improving regarding the natural gas. For the Gulf gas, I think the production will improve in short future. For Downstream, regarding the consumption of oil, it is declining, and it happens to every brand. For P&R pressure from Singapore GRM is soft. The U rate is lower because of the repair and spread and the demand is not that good. For the power business, demands are better because the gas price is down, then the power business is better. For EV value chain, competition is very high. And that's why we try to go into segments that we are highly competitive. For the life science, the sales volume and the margins are steady. So right now, I would like to give the floor to CFO.

Thank you very much, the CEO. Now we are getting to our performance. And this quarter, PTT, like the CEO has mentioned, we were impacted by the single pool scheme. But for the profit Q-on-Q, year-on-year or half-on-half is still up. Details would be more later. But on this screen, you would see that we are trying to split hydrocarbon and power and non-hydrocarbon sector. So on this screen, you should see that for the non-hydrocarbon business, contribution to the revenue, EBITDA and net income is not so high in Q1 and first half, the contribution is not so big, but we still have it in with the divestiture of Avaada. Now to Q2, Q-on-Q, revenue-wise, Q-on-Q is increased by 5% to about THB 40 billion. from all of the business units, mainly it's from trading. Revenue increased quite significantly following the average selling price and the sales volume mainly from the import of the crude oil to sell it to domestic refineries. P&R, petchem price is up, according to the market prices, aromatic sales volume is up, olefin, revenue is up because of the selling price, but the sales volume is down because of GC's turndown of the olefin unit. E&P revenue is up mainly from the average. The sales volume of G1/61 project, which can increase the production earlier than budgeted. But for the average selling price of E&P, it is down. For the gas business, it's up mainly from the gas separation units, average selling price and the sales volume is up, S&M. It's up following more sales, mainly from more demand, which is seasonal demand, while the average selling price is down because of the pool gas price. EBITDA Q-on-Q. EBITDA Q-on-Q, it's down by 3% or around THB 3.3 billion, mainly from P&R business and gas business and oil business, while E&P is up. Refinery, EBITDA is down following market GIM. Market GIM is down. PTT Group is down from $7.9 in Q1 to $3 in Q2. However, the sales volume of refining -- refinery is up and it also have the stock gain, which is close to the previous quarter. So it's not much difference concerning the stock gain. Petchem EBITDA is down a little bit the Aromatics business grew following the decrease spread, even though sales volume is up. For Olefin, it's the other way around. For the gas, gas separation. EBITDA is down because the feed cost is increasing following the single pool price, even though the average selling price and the sales volume is up. PTT LNG EBITDA is down because we cut down our stake in LNG terminal 2, while S&M EBITDA increase from more revenue and fee cost is down. When the pool gas prices change, it would affect negatively for some business, but positively for some businesses. For oil business, EBITDA is down mainly from the margin per liter, which is down, even though they can cut down on the operation expenses. E&P EBITDA is up mainly from the sales volume, which is more and the decreased average selling price. To the net income, probably it is our luck. Net income Q-on-Q, it's up to 22% or THB 6.5 billion. We have the FX gain. That's about THB 10 billion, mainly from unrealized FX loss of the U.S. dollars loan and for the baht depreciated less in Q2. In Q1, Thai baht depreciated a lot more. So that's why we have gained from this factor. For the relative gain, it increased by THB 5.5 billion from PTT trading, which have the derivative gain quite significantly. For the extra item in Q2, we recognized the nonrecurring items, which is net tax according to PTT equity, so we have THB 5.4 billion, mainly from the divestiture of LNG Terminal 2, and that's THB 4.3 billion. And GC and tire also gained from the buyback of the debentures in Q2. In Q2 as well, PTTEP also sell out the exploration wells and Oliver's and that's about THB 700 million. While in Q1, the extra items is only the divestment of Adalvo and that's THB 4.5 billion. So net nonrecurring items, the figures is not much different. Now to the half year of 2024, revenue increased by 5%, mainly from trading businesses, P&R and E&P. The trading business has increased from increased average selling price and sales volume. The finished products and LNG international trading is up. P&I is also increases. Refining business, average selling price is up despite the decreased sales volume. Petchem is increased both for the sales volume and average selling price. E&P sales is up due to the divestment of G1/61. Average selling price is up as M an gas. It's down because of the decrease of the average selling price following the single pool price, if you still remember the shortfall of THB 4.3 billion, that is blended in the single pool price and also the margin is S. For the refining, it's better T&M, it's better from the reserve of the use of the terminal and the pipeline. Oil is down because of the decreased average selling price. So we have to admit that for the OR, they are affected by the fake news and they try to communicate with the public. EBITDA. For first half of this year, it's up by 19%. From almost all of the businesses for the refining, it's up. First half of this year, we recognized a stock gain, that's THB 5 billion. While first half of last year, it's the loss of THB 10 billion. Now the difference is about THB 15 billion. Petchem EBITDA increased from the olefin business from the spread, which is higher and more sales volume. Aromatics spread is also up. Average selling price is down. E&P EBITDA increased both from the sales volume while the average selling price is down. Gas EBITDA is up mainly from the NGV business, loss is fewer because of the pool gas price, which is down, average selling price is up for all the customers while the sales volume is down, which is the positive factor. PTT NGV EBITDA is up following the decrease of pool gas price, while the average selling price is up. LNG EBITDA is up with a more reserve to use the peer after LNG Terminal 2 is in operation. For the negative factors, that's the gas separation unit. EBITDA is down following increase fee costs, according to the calculation of the single pool price. Trading EBITDA is down because the gain from the hedging is down and margin per unit is down. For the net income, first half, it's up by 34% or about THB 16 billion, following the increased EBITDA. In the first half, there are nonrecurring items, which benefits more in the first half. We have LNG Terminal 2, which we sell out, that's 4.3% and also the buyback of the debentures. So first half, we have the nonrecurring item, which is a positive factor, it's about THB 10 billion. For the FX, we have FX loss, and that's about THB 8.6 billion. First half, Thai baht depreciated about THB 2.6 while first half of last year, the depreciation rate is THB 1. FX loss increased by THB 4.6 billion, mainly from PTT trading in London and PTT, which is -- which has the FX derivative loss. PTT, EP, they have to pay the interest more for the demolition cost throughout the -- so the net profit for Q-on-Q. So net income increased by THB 6.5 billion compared to Q1. However, if we remove extra item, the net income will increase about THB 5.6 billion or 23% from THB 24.4 billion to THB 30 billion in the Q2. So let's just see the margin. Margin is down by THB 1.8 billion and this excludes a stock gain loss. And this is mainly due to the P&R because of the market GRM, which is down, the petrochemical business the margin is also down as a result of the aromatic business, [indiscernible] down. The GSP margin is also down. And the LNG is also down because our stake is down. The oil business, our margin is also down yet for margin positive factor is E&P. This is because of the average sales volume is up, although the average sales price is down. For stock game loss, it is up about THB 160 million. OpEx is up by THB 1.6 billion mainly because of the advertisement, PR, transportation and staff costs. For DD&A is up about THB 5 billion and mainly from the G1 project as a result of increasing sales volume and from the Yadana project, where the removed cost estimates are recognized. So other income is up by THB 1.1 billion. billion as a result of nonrecurring item recognition for FX and derivative loss is down by THB 10 billion is a result of the depreciation of baht. Derivative gains is up around THB 5.4 billion as a result of PTT's profit from derivative. Interest, public income tax and noncontrolling interest has a positive impact by THB 2.2 billion and this is mainly from the NCI, which is up by THB 2.7 billion thanks to the better performance of PTTEP and TOP. for the next slide, actually, we have already inform you and these to -- these are a few pages, the gas key drivers, the EBITDA, it is presented in terms of figures. So I'm going to skip and talk about financial position. And for the financial position, this is up from THB 3.4 trillion to THB 3.6 trillion and for liability and equity is up about THB 50 billion, and -- for noncurrent assets, it's about -- it's increased by THB 86 billion, and this is mainly from the increase of the long-term most of which are from loans from PTTEP, which lends to the wind farm project. For the PPE, this is increased by THB 20 billion, and this is a result of the E&P assets in the G1 project and G2 project as well as the clean fuel project of TOP. For the right-hand side, the payable and other liabilities, and this has increased by THB 66 million. And the estimates of long-term removal expenses also increased as a result of the PDT EPs proportion, investment proportion in the Yadana project. For the equity, it increased by THB 92 billion and this is a result of the first half performance where we have the net profit of THB 64 billion, and then we have the noncontrol interest, which increased by THB 30 billion. And with regard to the financial ratio, the net EBITDA and net debt to equity are also better and this is because of the increase of the EBITDA and the equity, which has also increased higher than the net debt. Regarding the cash flow for the first half of 2024, the beginning period, we have about THB 417 million. And the free cash flow also increased by THB 82 billion, and this is a result of the operating investment. For the investing activities, most of it are the CapEx. And we also lend money to subsidiaries within our group. And at the same time, we have dividends and interest income. So altogether, the investment we have minus around THB 89 billion. For the financing activity is negative by THB 95 billion and mainly from the payment of dividend as well as the repayment of the loans Therefore, in terms of net cash flow -- for the first half of 2024, we have increased cash flow of THB 5.8 billion, and this stand at THB 420 billion. So as of June 30, we have the cash and short-term investment of around THB 451 billion. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]