Punjab & Sind Bank (533295) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Shilpa Abraham, the moderator for this conference call. I welcome and thank each one of you for joining us today for the Punjab & Sind Bank Quarter 3 Financial Results Fiscal Year '23. Please note that this conference call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to introduce the management of Punjab & Sind Bank. We have with us today Shri Swarup Kumar Saha, MD and CEO; Shri Kollegal V. Raghavendra, Executive Director; Dr. Ramjass Yadav, Executive Director; and Ms. Mahima Agarwal, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I would like to say that some of the statements that will be made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature. I would now like to hand the conference over to Shri Swarup Kumar Saha, MD and CEO of Punjab & Sind Bank, for the opening remarks. After which, we will have the forum open for the interactive Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Shilpa, and a good afternoon to all of you, and welcome to this analyst conference on a virtual mode. So though the results are only in the public domain and the presentation of the analyst presentation has also been uploaded, most of the details are already with you. However, just to put the perception -- perspective before you, I'll just give you a brief highlights of the Q3 performance of the bank. The business has grown by 12.08% on Y-o-Y basis to INR 1 lakh 87,242 crores. The deposits have gone up by 9.11% on Y-o-Y basis to INR 1 lakh 9,497 crores. Gross advances has grown by 16.54% on a Y-o-Y basis to INR 77,745 crores. The CD ratio has improved to 71%. RAM advances, as shown -- stands at 51.39%, showing a growth of 19.07% for Q3. The net profit of the bank for Q3 was INR 373 crores against a net profit of INR 278 crores last quarter, which is showing a Q-on-Q growth of 34.17% and a Y-o-Y growth of 23.92%. The operating profit went up by 8.18% on a Q-o-Q basis and 3.61% on Y-o-Y basis. The gross nonperforming assets ratio reduces to 8.36% by 608 bps on Y-o-Y basis. Net nonperforming assets also reduced by 99 bps on Y-o-Y basis to 2.02%. The fresh slippages have also reduced to INR 243 crores in the quarter against that of INR 377 crores last quarter. The bank is well capitalized, with a [indiscernible] and a CET1 ratio of 12.79%. The return on assets improved to 1.11%. The yield on advances improved to 8.11%. The CASA deposits grew by 11.33%. The slippage ratio, as in view of the fresh slippages having gone reduced, also improved to 0.36% for the third quarter against 0.58% for Q2 of FY 2023. The provision coverage ratio stands at 89.31% against 87.77% in December '21. The cost-to-income ratio has also improved to 63.47% for Q3 of the current financial year as against 64.20% of last year's Q3. The same was 65.30% for the quarter ended 30th September. So these were some of the summary of the performance of the bank for Q3. Now I'm open to the questions to be -- from the participants. Shilpa?

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from the line of Shri Amit Mishra.

Amit Mishra here. I'm from Indus Equity Advisors. Congratulations on your numbers. Sir, so just my question is regarding our loan growth. For this quarter, we have really [indiscernible] well. So what was the main key areas in our work? Because I can see in your retail, we have done 32% growth. And in -- so are we focusing more on retail? Because agri and SME is, I think, more or less similar to the last quarter growth.

Right, right. So if you see my incremental increase of the advances, Q-on-Q with the [indiscernible] between RAM and the non-RAM that is corporate, INR 2,000 crores of RAM and INR 1,900 crores of corporate segment. But as far as the sequential growth is concerned, it has been more or less evened out, even in between RAM and corporate. However, on a Y-o-Y basis, yes, the overall credit has shown a traction of 16.54%, slightly aided by a lower base of December '21. I would like to put you that also. So therefore, the traction was looking at -- is looking at 16.54%. So we were aided slightly by a smaller base, which actually the figures of December '21 had come down from September '21. So that is one part of it. As far as your other part of your question regarding the segmental part, yes, our retail has done well. We are focusing -- our overall retail has grown 32%, but the overall RAM segment has grown at 19%. It is primarily aided by the housing loan segment, the vehicle loan and the personal loan and, of course, some in the other segments like gold loan also. So these are some of the areas in which we are focusing on. Our idea is to have a predominant RAM segment percentage. As of now, we find that it is at 51.39%. So we will try to bring this a bit upside towards 52% plus by end of March and make it -- and further in the next financial year, take it further to 53%, 54%. So that's all we are working on.

Sir, personal loans, you mentioned there is a growth of 101% Y-o-Y. So this is because of -- the growth rate is 100% because of low base or we are doing something different in this section?

Yes. Yes. Correct. Yes, we are -- some of it is aided by the low base, of course. The figure of INR 483 crores looks 100% more than December '21, but we have also done something new here. What we have done here is we have brought in this preapproved personal loan product for the bank, which is giving good traction, and based on data analytics, we have now brought it into the mobile app also. So in 3 clicks, this preapproved personal loan category is taking traction. So this new product that had just come for the bank, that is the driving force in the increase of the personal loan from INR 240 crores to INR 483 crores. And that product is getting traction quite well in the bank.

Okay. Sir, you mentioned gold loan also. So can you give me the amount for this quarter and last quarter and previous year?

Gold loan, I can give you separately. Mr. GM -- our GM, Mr. Mehra, will provide you separately in -- at this point of time. But there is good traction there. The numbers I can share now, Mr. Mehra will share with you.

Because I'm seeing this because all the PSU banks specifically, they are more focused on gold loan since the past 3, 4 quarters. [indiscernible], yes.

Yes, yes, yes. We are also -- yes, we have a similar trend here also. Though our bank is predominantly in the northern belt, the southern-based banks have a larger share here. But our -- what we have found is there is good traction in our belts also where we are having a lot of traction. So gold loan data, I can -- my GM, Mr. Mehra, will share with you separately. We can give you the outstanding figure. What is the outstanding figure of gold loan? Agri gold is INR 276 crores. The agri gold.

And retail.

And retail, yes.

Sir, my next question is, what is the cost of deposit -- average cost of deposit for the quarter? Because yields on advances have grown significantly from last quarter to this quarter.

Correct. Yes. I think cost of deposit also, we have 3.86%, the cost of deposits. There's a slide also towards that. Give me the slide. Please refer to Slide #18. The figure is -- I'll just correct myself. Figure is at 4.66%, and cost of fund is 3.86%, so...

Okay. Sir, can you give us some guidance for FY '24? Because you have given guidance for the full year FY '23.

Guidance on what?

Guidance on credit, gold and deposit.

Sir, sorry to interrupt. Please limit your questions to 2 per participants. Mr. Mishra, we'll come back to you. We'll take the next question from Indus Equity. May I request you to please introduce yourself?

Sushil Choksey from Indus Equity. Sir, what is the credit pipeline visible as of today?

See, in terms of the overall credit portfolio, we are having quite a good number of needs here and work in process. So as of now, we are having around 5,000 to 6,000 of inventory within our sales in which we are working on, on the corporate side.

Sir, my understanding is based on your CD ratio and with the current market situation, is it not possible that we can beat the industry average by a mile then take a higher market share?

See, that is a call that we have to very judiciously take in the bank. We will -- like as I have told this earlier also, we'd like to pace our credit growth in a normal way. While addressing the issue of the low credit growth earlier, we should also be quite conscious of the fact that we [indiscernible] expansion and monitoring and et cetera, et cetera. We are building that up in the bank, so our underwriting requirements, our skills, our back-office performances. So as we scale up our underwriting requirements, from the current level to our next high level, we will -- till then we'll pace our credit growth. We are not in the competition of credit growth with the market. We'll be happy with the credit growth in line with the industry. And as far as beating the credit growth of the market is concerned, we'll leave it for some future perspective here.

My question was not about beating industry. The current situation demand at Punjab & Sind has a potential to do that. I'm not forcing or asking anybody that you do this or that. I'm asking because of your current CD ratio and possibly a low profile in last 3 years, that's a potential, which you're sitting on it. It's like a gold mine, which is visible in the market condition, will you capture or not. Doesn't matter so that's how they're seeing on the Board. Second thing, sir, what are we doing, whether it's a credit or a credit cost or low-cost deposit or you want to say retail products or you want to have technology, everything needs a human resource. And what are we doing as an enabler because you may build a tall tower. If there's no human resource, nothing is going to happen. So what are we doing about human resource and digitization, which is an enabler for a good bank? I see that is a problem with most of the banks.

Yes. Mr. Raghavendra will answer this, my ED.

Yes. Mr. Sushil?

Yes, that's right.

Can you repeat the question?

Sir, what are we doing for human resource capability, which is a foundation of a bank?

Yes, I got you. See, HR actually is a specialized area now. It has attracted a lot of attention. So what we have done is, as initial initiative, we have identified the resources within the bank, and we have mapped them. Competency mapping, as the first step, has been done. Now actually and also we have already made some advertisement also. We -- as a part of the first exercise, we are recruiting people laterally where our talent is required in some specialized centers. And maybe down the line, we will have to do an overall assessment, and we will have to do the competency mapping, training as well as lateral recruitment. So that's an ongoing exercise, which we'd like to strengthen in the next year, that is '23, '24.

And to add to what my ED, Mr. Raghavendra, said, ultimately, it is skilling and upskilling and reskilling. So those are important things for the bank, where we are laying focus on. We are -- department or division by division, we are working on it. Our training -- staff training college infrastructure has been -- is being upgraded. We have now got ISO-certified on the quality part, and we are tying up with various other institutes like IIM Ahmedabad, XLRI Jamshedpur and the various other top-rated management institutes [indiscernible], which are to make them agile, to make them versatile and make them relevant in the current context.

Sir, you didn't answer my last question, which was part of that same on digitization.

Yes, yes. So the digitation part is another important area. See, you must be aware, my -- any digitization, fast digitization will require a strong technological platform. So what we are undergoing is -- today, we are undergoing a finance upgradation from 7 to 10, which is somehow limiting my overall growth story in the digitization fact. However, we intend that the migration should happen by June '23. But till then also, we are now focusing a lot of -- lots on the -- how the present system, the platform can hold new and new value-added services in the -- for the mobile app. So first of all, make the app stable. So my rating on the Google App PlayStore has improved considerably to 4.4 to 4.3. Then my value-added services have started traction. The [ PR ] for personal loan is there. The online account opening is there. The lead generation to my app is there. Now we have introduced DigiLocker also, wherein the customer can get his statement and their TDS certificate through the app also. So we are upgrading, and also, we are also -- we are having an omnichannel sort of infrastructure for the users. So one experience for both digitally, mobile -- through mobile transactions and through Internet banking. So it's a uniform experience. So as we go along, the -- my technological upgradation, which is happening parallelly, my value addition in the digital arena will also pick up. We are now also contemplating what you call that e-renewals of MSME accounts and KCC accounts. So that will also save a lot on human resources and increase our productivity. So these are various pipelines. Things are there. The WhatsApp banking is there, the tab banking concept is there. So we'll bring this slowly and slowly as we move along.

Sir, what is the write-back on provisions from?

Basically, the recovery, these are provisions which are written back from the recovery of certain big and small, both together, accounts. In fact, if you see my last 2 quarters' performance, we were -- we had provided for, this is the time we got some write-back, and we involved that in my balance sheet management.

How much amount would be lumpy? And how much would be a small amount?

On lumpy, it would be around 50% of that.

And are you estimating any write-backs in Q4, too?

Yes, sure. We have here. See, overall guidance from my recovery/upgradation, we have already done INR 1,178 crores in 9 months. So we intend that we should finish by minimum INR 1,800 crores by the end of the year in terms of total recovery/upgradation. So that will also give me some cushion for write-back in the accounts. Because the PCR is already 89.31%, my NCLT provisions are nearly 100%. So there is a lot of scope of write-back in certain lumpy accounts. And we are also having good traction in our small value recovery, up to INR 5 crores segment, which is -- which we have specially designed, and that is also taking good traction. So [ what's the ] recovery in that.

We now have our next question from Ashok Ajmera.

I am Ashok Ajmera. I'm Chairman of Ajcon Global Services Limited. We are into the capital market and the equity research. Sir, at the outset, I would like to compliment you for another good quarter of the -- I mean, with good results, especially if you look at the operating profit and the net profit and various other parameters. Even [ NIM ], [indiscernible] have been good. Slippage ratio is under control. Having said that, sir, I've got those couple of some observations and questions. And I raised some of them in the previous quarter's analyst meet also. So my -- but this time, some data point also which can be worked and informed to me a little later also if it is not ready. Sir, I would like to know the -- about the detailed calculation of this net worth because net worth at the various places are different. If you take the last year's -- last quarter, this thing and add the profit, then the net worth come a little different. And if you look at the -- what is shown in the results, INR 6,071 crores, the net worth is different. And if you look at the capital and the results, the net worth is different. Definitely, there may be some reasons, the way of calculation, some revaluations and some valuation of the recapitalization bonds. But can the CFO or somebody can maybe later give me the exact calculation of the net worth, which is shown in the results of INR 6,071 crores? This is one data point, some information I need on that. Secondly, sir, on the DTA, if again, our tax or CFO can explain because our tax in the last quarter was negative INR 85 crores. This quarter, we have given INR 178 crores, and DTA is balance is INR 1,980 crores. So just in order to get a little color, then what -- how we will be ending the whole year? Because, ultimately, all said and done, the provision is deducted from the profit, and the net profit is only counted. So one -- my question is on that. Some -- again, some data point. One is, sir, on the single fraud of INR 53.79 crores [ note # 13 ], where the provision of INR 26.89 crores is made and INR 36.9 crores has been carried forward, provided to be provided in the next 3 quarters or you may even provide in the next 4 quarter also. What kind of this fraud is fraud account because it's, I think, credit borrower fraud account, INR 53.79 crores? And what are the chances of some immediate recovery from that account? If you can -- and by -- in this round, one more observation and a rather question is on the overall credit growth. So we have been discussing about the credit, and last time you also gave the explanation that old legacies and you want to be careful. But time has come, sir, when our accounts, our bank has already been rerated by the analysts and by the fund managers and the investors across the country and the group. So can we not go -- can I have a little more ambitious plan on this front? Because both if you look at the corporate advances and the RAM, the growth is just kind of negligible. So on corporate credit, when the bank of our size are double than our size or small -- near to that, when they can grow at 20%, 21%, 26% or 16%, why can't we have a road map where we can also have some good credit plans? And what are the worries for that? I mean why can't we do it? So some of these, my questions and observations in this round, if time permits, I'll come back, sir.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Ajmera. The first 2 questions on the net worth and the DTA, Mr. Raghavendra, our ED, will answer. And then I'll take your third and fourth question.

Yes. Good afternoon, Mr. Ajmera. I'm audible?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Yes, yes. Yes. With regard to your question regarding calculation of net worth, your observation is correct because net worth for different purposes is calculated slightly different. There will be a slight variation, may not be largely different. You know that the net worth is calculated as paid-up capital plus free reserves, minus intangible assets. So actually, we have 1 or 2 or 3 things. One is DTA as you know, that with DTAs and intangible asset, which we deduct. In addition to that, while calculating the net worth, we have also taken into account the discount or the fair value of the zero-coupon bonds. Therefore, that also differs every quarter. So we have deducted that. These are the main 2 components. And with regard to the horizon regarding detail for Q3, Q4, so DTA for Q4 will also be similar that -- you know that we are seeing the operating profit and the net profit as a year as a whole. So therefore, DTA may not be largely different. It will be on the same lines.

So sir, just coming back to that valuation part. So valuation for the noninterest-bearing [ capitalization ] bonds is very substantial because if you take INR 2,000 crores of DTA and capital and free reserves are INR 14,654 crores, net worth is only [ 6 ]. So total INR 8,000 crores something is total difference between capital plus reserves, surplus and reserves and the net worth, which is shown here. So the fair valuation reduction in the -- this -- your zero-coupon bond is almost about INR 3,500 crores to INR 4,000 crores?

Yes, it will be around that. It will be around that only because, see, these bonds are of 10 years' duration, and the fair value is also distributed over 10 years period. So therefore, it will be a similar amount.

Okay. So this point well taken, sir. Another [indiscernible].

So now coming to your third and fourth question regarding the fraud, this fraud we have disclosed earlier when the fraud happened sometime in November. It is basically a liability-side fraud regarding some fixed deposit misappropriation with the -- by the -- one of the employees -- a few employees of the bank. So that fraud amount has been -- now figure has been crystallized. As far as your -- we have provided 50% of that. And as far as your recovery part is concerned, your question on recovery, the CBI has fast-tracked the investigation process, the investigation agency [indiscernible] and the possibilities of recovery. And maybe, yes, going forward, we will have some recovery at least and phase-wise because it's a -- amount of INR 55 crores is in question. We have around INR 5 crores in our various accounts, which has been freezed. We need the -- maybe the investigating agencies have to complete their investigation. And we are getting signals that maybe some of the recovery will happen, but we cannot really envisage the exact amount at this point of time until the amount really comes into our bank. So -- but we are hopeful that this is going to happen. Then the other point was regarding your overall credit growth. See, Mr. Ajmera, you will appreciate if you study our bank's legacy. From March '18 to March '22, the bank did not grow in various -- due to various issues. Now we are now in a position of strength in terms of our capital requirements. So we are now moving towards a credit growth cycle. So we ended at 3% plus in March '22, 6% in June '22, 9% plus in September '22, and now we are at 16.54%. I think that is a good enough signal that we are in the market to grow. We are not in a market not to grow. But to what extent we should grow, to what extent we should grow, that's a call that we will internally -- we have our mechanisms in place. And we are -- I repeat once again, we are not in the race for -- in the [ terms ] of the credit growth, which is happening in the market. We'll pace ourselves. We work on our efficiency. There's a liquidity factor that is coming into the market. You are all aware of that. So unless or until we manage that simultaneously, the going whole hog in terms of competition into the market for the credit growth may not be for a bank of our size, may not be a prudent way of doing things. So we pace some things up. And as you see in Q1, on a quarter-on-quarter basis, the advances have significantly grown. And if you map this to the last 3, 4 years' performance of the bank, you will find some significant improvement. So we pace ourselves. Let us be patient, and we will deliver as we -- as per our risk appetite on the bank.

That is, of course, there, sir. So can some idea be given, whether on the consortium, out of this INR 4,000 crores in this quarter approximately or out of the loans, which you grew, how much percentage is the consortium advances and our single stand-alone percentage? So it will give some idea that how our credit department is like looking at or working.

No. I think credit department is looking -- working very fine. As far as the data point is concerned, you can -- that can be shared separately. But if you see our incremental Q-on-Q growth, around INR 4,000 crores have been evenly spread out between RAM advances and corporate credit. And corporate credit will include some of the PSU-backed NBFCs and certain corporate other accounts. So it may not be totally consortium. There could be some standard significant number of stand-alone accounts also.

Our next question is from the line of [ Mr. Saket Kapoor ].

Sir, firstly, what kind of investments are -- have we done in improving the technological backbone of the banking system? What have been spent overall? What steps are we taking to improve the efficiency and introduction of AI to test -- to get an early indication of where the loans -- where there is stress in the system? What steps the management has taken if you could elaborate the same? And how are we matching other private sector and other banks in the same coverage area where they have the same market share if we can -- where we are dominant represents, geographical presence. If you could give some elaboration on those, sir.

Thank you, [ Mr. Saket ], for your questions. As far as the technology platform is concerned, that we are going through a technological upgradation project from -- is only a version upgradation from 7 to 10. And that entails an investment of INR 250 crores. So we are going through that process. It is likely to culminate. Why June is estimated is that we are 50% through the process already. So another 50% by June, we should be there. And after we migrate into this platform on an upgraded version, the bank will again move forward into what are the areas we need to focus on to be future-ready and to be the best-in-class in terms of technological platforms. I agree with you, [ Mr. Saket ], in your observation that we need to focus on technological platform upgradations and which we'll be doing it. But what quantum of amount we'll be doing it in the future, that we need to be a bit more because of the present context of my bank in which the upgradation project is just on. So once that is completed, any project further we take will be after we complete this process, which is already on. So maybe in another 2 quarters down the line, we'll be able to give you an indication what is the future things that we intend to do. As far as your question on AI and maybe machine learning and other data analytics, these are all part of this process. We will be -- we are focusing on that, and in fact, we will be recruiting data analytics. We'll be going in collaboration with fintechs. And as my technology upgradation happens, my fintech collaborations also increase. So we will be focusing on -- we'll be taking all the necessary enablers that are currently required to be -- remain relevant in this very competitive ecosystem. Your EWS, you talked of early warning signal. Yes, we have adopted our early warning signal mechanism also. And we are working on it to how to further upgrade ourselves so that our collection efficiency increases. And in spite of the technological somehow a bit not updated so far, we are still having good traction in our improvement in collection efficiency, and that is where if you see my fresh slippages quarter-on-quarter has come down significantly from INR 377 crores to around INR 278 crores. So that is -- INR 249 crores. How much is now? INR 242 crores. So that is how we are improving our cases on monitoring mechanisms. We are focusing on segment-wise collection efficiency. We are at -- on the retail side, agri, MSME, overall, my collection efficiency is around 92% plus. So we intend to increase it further so that our [indiscernible] stress coming into our system. So -- and as far as your last observation regarding private banks, how do I pace myself with the private banks? Yes, we are in a very competitive world, particularly in the northern belt of the country, where we are predominantly present. There is a lot of competition from the private sector. So we will be -- we are preparing ourselves slowly and steadily based on the -- as I said, my pace of my technological upgradation, we are pacing themselves slowly, but we are conscious of the competition that is going on.

So what have been the amount spent as of now? Or what is the ballpark number which we will be spending for this technological upgradation?

I told you around INR 250 crores is the project implementation.

Sir, when we look at your cost-to-income ratio, if you take the averages for other banks, is this number higher than the averages? What should be the number going ahead 2 years down the line? What are we targeting in terms of cost-to-income ratio, sir?

Yes, that is true that in terms of our average cost to income -- average of the -- my peer group, our cost-to-income ratio is very high compared to the peer group. And predominantly, the reason was that our income generation due to capital constraints, we were not able to grow, and our asset quality issues were quite huge. So the bank had taken a conscious decision to first consolidate ourselves. So from that, the income was a bit muted over the last 2, 3 years. That -- because it's a ratio between cost and income, so once the income goes down, the cost sometimes is all -- has to be managed because some are steady costs which cannot be brought down. So now what we are doing is -- and the cost income has gone up to at one point of time to 75%, 1 year back if you look into our figures. So from that perspective, we have moved on. We have come down to 63% plus. Our target is to reach as close as 60% by end of March. And by going forward, in the next 2-, 3-year turnaround plan, we intend to bring it to be between 50% to 55%.

Lastly, sir, I missed your commentary on this reversal of provisions of around INR 207 crores and -- I think so INR 271 crore line item #8. So if you could throw some more light on this.

So the basic provisions were from the -- the write-back was due to the -- what you call the recovery that has been made in certain accounts where we had additionally provided for. So the -- it was equally spread more or less between the big-ticket ones and the smaller ones. So primarily, see, if you must see my recovery upgradation, that is constantly increasing, and it is more than my slippages. And my PCR is over 99%. It still went further to 89.31% in the current quarter. So that is enabling me to have that cushion to write back on the provisions on those accounts where [indiscernible]. That is the answer.

And sir, can you quantify how many accounts have seen this reversal and which sector?

It will be -- the number of accounts would be spread. The small accounts will be spread across because we have a nondiscretionary, nondiscriminatory scheme of [indiscernible].

Can you just approximate, out of this INR 207 crore and INR 271 crores, what is the largest proportion and which sector it belongs to?

One would be the infrastructure. Infrastructure, one will be in the infrastructure sector. And primarily, the infrastructure sector is what gives me the [ big-picture ] one and a financial company.

Our next question is from the line of [ Mr. Marcel ].

Myself is an individual investor. My question regarding [indiscernible] ratio of the last question of [ Mr. Kapoor ], that regarding this provision reversal, INR 271 crores. So is it mainly there from [ Sray International ], Reliance Capital or something else?

See, I told you that we cannot really disclose the name. No, [ Sray ] has not been resolved yet. So that is categorically what I would like to tell you. And certain infrastructure accounts, big-ticket resolutions that have happened on infrastructure side and a financial company, we got this write-back.

Okay. Number -- yes. And second thing, how much is the exposure to Reliance Capital Group?

Capital? Reliance Capital? Reliance Capital, we don't have any exposure.

We're very good. And this is -- and to say substantial, right?

Yes, INR 1,200 crores.

So is it fully provided or what?

Yes, fully provided.

Okay. Okay. But because I recall that in this announcement submitted to the stock exchange, the gentleman has written some technical language that like it has been fully provided as per the prudential norms of the RBI. See, all the investor does not know that what are the prudent norms. So if you can direct the concerned person of the company secretary not to write such kind of this language. He can only say it hasn't employed 100%. So everything is clear. Otherwise, it's ambiguity.

Okay. Okay. We'll guide the concerned person, okay?

Okay. It is like next thing that like -- as I was just listening [indiscernible] last few years, the bank has been very much like no, yes, in the consolidation mode. So for example, coming to this March quarter or June quarter, what kind of, for example, is a growth plan you have made, for example, like in these 2 quarters, like whether the bank -- yes, and more so because you have already taken a substantial amount from the central government, so I think this like equity requirement is fulfilled. Yes, it's fulfilled. So whether the bank can take off in the credit growth or not?

First of all, the -- we are well capitalized as on December. And we did not get any support from the government for funding our own credit growth. We estimate a credit growth of 15% for the overall financial year. So -- and we feel that the overall growth will be to that extent. And the capital requirement would be -- capital that we hold would be sufficient. And -- but still, as a matter of corporate governance or as a prudent measure, we have already going to -- we have already disclosed to the market that we have taken a Board approval for raising capital of INR 250 crores [indiscernible]. So now we will be engaging with our investors community to have feedback. And we will explore raising of more capital through this mode in some time in the current quarter or in the next few quarters in various tranches. But though our capital strength is quite good in terms of the present state of affairs, but we like to build buffers for the future in terms of various geopolitical situations that are cropping up. So we would like to keep ourselves much more future-ready and create buffers for the future. So that is an option that we have, and we are working on that.

And so like for the [ trade ], this expected recovery is how much, 40%?

It is all work in process.

No, no, no, I understand. Considering this like [indiscernible] revised bid [ has also ], I hope it's around 40%, 45%.

See, it is very difficult to give you a number, ballpark number, how much would be the figure. But what I can tell you surely is that the traction on this resolution of these accounts are in a fast track. In the newspapers, it is coming off and on, what is the state of affairs. However, it is difficult because the bidding process is now on, so we cannot comment on what would be the recovered percent.

Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Agree, sir. Agree. My last question regarding this deposit mobilization. We have seen in the market that there are many banks who have come up with some unique period deposit, okay, like 399 days, 7.8% fixed deposit or 499 days and so on. And they have mobilized -- quite a number of banks have mobilized significant amount of deposits in that particular bucket. So whether your bank has also launched such kind of deposit or is planning to launch to mobilize more resources so that like -- so that the growth can be more -- is made by the bank?

Yes, absolutely. We have also done the same. We have had products for 401 days and 601 days. Our USP product is for 601 days, where the rate of interest is as competitive as the industry. So we are mobilizing deposits in that, and we are getting good traction there. Apart from that, we are not only depending on the retail term deposits. We are also focusing on garnering low-cost current and savings account deposits, and we are targeting more and more salary accounts. We have made good progress in 2, 3 places where we have opened bulk, about 25,000 salary accounts of government institutes -- employees of government institutes, and we are going to take it much more to a higher level in the current quarter and to the next quarter. So it will be a mix of both on the retail term deposits and on the CASA front. And we have also now brought in a lot of unique products for the bank on the credit card business, on the stand-alone health business, the life insurance business on a bancassurance model. So all this will now enable me to market more and more good quality savings and current accounts.

Yes, very good, sir. Just like one contributor point regarding this current account, like my small suggestion to you, please, I'm sure that like you are already and your team is already working on the subject. But like if you could kindly make it like further segmentize it and like give some sort of target to each, like up to the RM level, they look at the need to browse also current account because what your current account will get, it is the [indiscernible] entire model go to the profit. So I think the bank should focus more on this part so that like the more and more current account can be opened and they sell the account also, like this like it's not only government sector, but like even the private sector should also be targeted because like nowadays even I am opening a personal account, I went to Indian Bank. And like I was so surprised that like the way he's treated -- the way he treated me, he said, okay, sir, don't worry, I will personally come to your house to open the account. So I think if like the same personalized service can be provided by your old branches and then focus on creating or just like opening more and more current account, we'll really put our bank into a faster growth, sir. So if you could link it to their performance, performance of all this the field worker and this branch manager and across the hierarchy, please.

Thank you. Thank you for your feedback. We'll work on that.

I have one final question from [ Mr. Rohan ], an independent investor. His first question is any QIP plans to dilute government stake? Second, all banks are moving to digital-first strategy. What is the bank's move towards that? And third, how is competitive intensity in credit or deposit side? All banks are well capitalized and going behind deposits. How is Punjab & Sind Bank responding to that?

Okay. See, I think the questions are already, in some way or the other, I have answered. But anyway, the cost of [ upgradation ], we can say it once more, the bank is already -- has already taken a Board approval for raising capital of INR 250 crores through a QIP or bond method over a period of 1 year. So we are working on that part. As far as the bank on the digital-first, we're becoming digital-first. As I said earlier that the bank is going our technological upgradation, and we are more than 50% through that. By June, we should be through in terms of our technical -- technological upgradation. Until then, we are upgrading our services through our digital app and bringing in more and more value-added services in the app like opening accounts online, having lead generation in process, having a DigiLocker, preapproved personal loan also on mobile app. So we are also in an area where we are in the process of digital transformation. As my technological upgradation happens, this digital transformation will take traction. In terms of deposit mobilization, yes, as I said earlier, the deposit mobilization is being carried out in a very strong footing. We have given competitive rates for our fixed deposits. And we are focusing on salary accounts of individuals, the current and savings account, CASA growth as a whole for the bank is still handsome at over 11%. I think this is an area where we are doing better than many other banks in terms of the growth story at least. So that is [indiscernible] that we are doing significantly in terms of my current and saving. So that gives us the encouragement that we can improve our low-cost deposit base. So overall, the bank has a lot of focuses in -- for future, lined up for the future. We have -- we are going to bring in the WhatsApp banking, the tab banking, the video KYC, various products. We have now in terms of value-added services -- products, value-added products, we have now gone into a co-branded credit card with SBI Cards. We have opened up a term life insurance partner with Bajaj Allianz. We have gone into stand-alone health insurance business -- bancassurance business with Aditya Birla Health. So these are some of various enablers that we are giving customers for our future growth story.

One last question from [ Mr. Vikas ], independent analyst. Your main focus area has been the North region. How do you plan to expand to other regions?

Yes, absolutely true. The earlier it was more or less our northern belt -- predominantly northern belt network. We are now -- have a plan for opening 50 branches by March '24. Out of that 25, we have planned until the March of this year end. So out of 25, we've already opened 3. We intend to open another 20, 22 branches by end of March, and that will be on the other areas beyond the North, Central Southwest, those are the areas. And similarly, for the next financial year, we have a plan for opening another 25 branches to give a more Pan-India network outreach.

We will wait for a minute for additional questions to come in. Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, we now conclude this conference. On behalf of Punjab & Sind Bank, I thank hand each one of you for joining this conference call. Should you have any further queries, please reach out to Mr. Rohan Hegde here at 98-2067-0345 or [email protected]. Details are mentioned in Webex chat and the media invitation sent to you earlier. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you. Have a good day ahead.