Punjab & Sind Bank ($533295)

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Ganesh Shankanawar, the moderator for today's earnings call. I welcome and thank each one of you for joining us today for the Punjab & Sind Bank's Earnings Call for Q4 FY '26. Please note that this conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to introduce the management of Punjab & Sind Bank. We have with us today Shri Swarup Kumar Saha, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Shri Ravi Mehra, Executive Director; Shri Rajeeva, Executive Director; and Shri Arnab Goswamy, Chief Financial Officer. I would now like to hand over the conference to Shri Swarup Kumar Saha, sir, the MD and CEO of Punjab & Sind Bank for the opening remarks, after which we will have the forum open for the interactive Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Ganesh. Good morning, everybody. On behalf of Punjab & Sind Bank, I welcome all the participants and the analysts that have joined this analyst con call of Punjab & Sind Bank on the Q4 and annual financial results of financial year '25-'26. The bank's Board has approved the results of the bank yesterday, and we have already uploaded the necessary disclosures along with the analyst presentation in the stock exchanges. Many of you could have already gone through the presentation. But to start the discussion, I would like to mention a few highlights of the bank's results, and then we'll have the question and answers. So the total business of the bank has grown by 14.94%, a historic growth for the bank of Punjab & Sind Bank and it has touched INR 263,652 crores for the financial year. Deposits have shown a robust growth of 12.37%. Gross advances has also shown a very robust growth of 18.29%. The CASA, which has its own challenges in the current ecosystem, but the growth of our CASA deposits has been 10% plus, though the ratio has marginally dipped. But the green shoot of it is this that we are continuously able to grow in this segment. The retail term deposits is a very, very encouraging sign for the bank, and we are growing at nearly 20% at 19.58% overall. So these were some of the top line numbers. In terms of the consistency in our operational income, the operating profit for the year has grown by 5.16% and stands at INR 2,182 crores. The net profit of INR 1,322 crores has been the highest ever historic profit of the bank in its history. It has grown by 30.12%. Net interest income was at flat of 0.74% at INR 3,812 crores. However, we'd like to mention here that the last year in Q4, in view of a resolution of a big ticket advance, we had a one-off interest income of substantial amount of over INR 200 crores in Q4 last year. And if we exclude that one-off item, our net interest income growth would be above 8% in the current year as well. Core fee income, which has been -- we have been talking about quite strongly in our various calls, and we have been able to prove that the bank is able to now generate a consistent growth in the core fee income, and it has come at INR 759 crores and growing at a handsome 22% plus. The noninterest income has grown by 13.47%. In terms of Q4 numbers, net profit has grown by 34.82%, nearly 35%. Net interest income, again, while it has -- as per the numbers declared in Q4 last year, they have shown a dip of 13%. But again, as I just explained in that one-off item of Q4 last year, if I exclude that, the net interest income has also -- on a quarterly basis has increased by over 12.46%. In terms of quarterly numbers, the core fee income has increased by 28.81% and noninterest income was at 427% (sic) [ INR 427 crore ]. The asset quality continues to be robust. Gross NPA has reduced to 2.4%, net NPA at 0.79%, PCR slightly moderately down at 90.91%. Slippage ratio has been at 0.7% and credit cost at 0.06%. The highlights again show that the bank is now growing in all the 3 segments of the RAM segment. The RAM percentage has now touched nearly 59% and with a robust growth of retail over 24%, agriculture over 23%, MSME over 29%. We are -- our capital adequacy remains strong. Yearly cost-to-income ratio is down at 60.97%. Return on assets also continues to yearly increase gradually and we feel that this is a positive trend of the bank in which the rate of -- return on assets will continue to improve. Our CASA and retail term deposit, the liability franchise continues to show robust growth. The RAM percentage advances also show robust growth. In terms of the CASA and retail term deposits, if you put them together, the growth has been 15.48% in the overall scheme of things. And the other segments are all mentioned here. Our credit profile on external rating wise also, we find that this time, there were some questions last time regarding the variance in the AAA-rated and the AA-rated borrower profile, you'll find that there has been increase in the AAA-rated borrowers to 18.05% sequentially. AA-rated has also sequentially improved. So our credit profile looks very healthy. So overall, the operating profits continue to show consistent growth. Net interest income shows consistent growth. Net profit is showing consistent growth for the last 3 years. Core fee income is growing. As far as margins are concerned, the net interest margin for the 12-month period was at 2.55%. This is an area we'll continue to work on because we need to mobilize more and more low-cost deposits to fund our growth story. The cost-to-income ratio has shown increase. As I already said, return on assets from March '24, it was 0.41%; '25, it was 0.67%; and now it is 0.79%. Return on equity is also gradually increasing. Business per branch is also having good traction. Overall, on the other areas, as I said, the recovery and upgradation continues to also propel the bank towards further efficiency. The overall recovery and upgradation has been nearly INR 1,500 crores, and we are -- continue -- on this journey. The slippages has reduced over the period of 1 year from INR 801 crores to INR 678 crores. So the gross NPA percentage has gone down from 3.38% to 2.40%. Net NPA has gone down from 0.96% to 0.79% and recovery in TWO accounts continues to be a focus area. Our collection efficiency has moved from 67% in March '22 to 96% in March '26. So that's a big improvement that has happened. In terms of slippages on this quarter, I think you must have all observed that there has been a slight uptick in the overall slippages of the quarter, primarily due to the MSME accounts. We find that there were certain residual stress, which we had told earlier in the agri and the MSME segment. So we have recognized those stress that was there in the MSME segment. However, overall, the gross NPA and net NPA numbers look reasonable. Credit cost is also very low. The SMA 1 and 2 of INR 5 crores is also at a very controlled level. We are -- in terms of organizational structuring, we have done a few organizational restructuring in the current year. We have opened 3 more zonal offices at Kolkata, Delhi and Lucknow. And we have opened also 4 more regional offices at Raipur, Bangalore, Shimla and Bhubaneswar. And we'll have a much more -- so that we have a much more pan-India network. We are increasing our VC network. We are at 3,027 VCs now. We'll scale it up to more than 4,000 by the end of the current year. And various operational areas that we have highlighted in digital enablement in RAM loans have been highlighted, digital transformation. New features are getting added. We are adding a lot of investments into our IT infrastructure and trying to build our operational resilience. And also, we have taken out specific programs for capacity building in the bank through our Navjyoti, Phase 1 and Phase 2. The Phase 1 has been implemented. Now we are in the Phase 2. Phase 1 consists of primarily target setting performance management, succession plan, et cetera. Now we are implementing the Phase 2 of the Navjyoti project, which primarily focuses on capacity building of our executives, and we take out -- we have taken out a plan of culling out around 125 officers from Scale 4, 5 and 6, who will be especially groomed for the future leadership in the bank. So that program is going to be initiated very shortly. In terms of our guidance, whatever we gave last year for FY '26, we could achieve most of them. However, we just fell short in our net NPA and PCR. However, we feel that the current year also, we'll be able to achieve all of them. For the current year, we expect a deposit growth of 13% to 14%, advances growth of 16% to 18%. RAM, we expect to cross 60% of the total advances. Gross NPA to be below 2%. PCR, we'll maintain the last year's level of guidance 92% to 93%. Recovery and upgradation will continue to be our focus. We'd like to cross INR 1,000 crores this year as well. Credit cost and slippage ratio should be below 1%. So that's the overall snapshot of the bank's performance. Over to you, Mr. Ganesh for the Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line Sushil sir. Hello Sushil sir, am I audible?

You can move on, I think.

Sure, sir. So next question, we have from Ashok sir.

Yes, I'm unmuted actually now. Good morning Saha and the entire team, compliments to you for the highest net profit of the quarter and the year, I think INR 422 crores for the quarter and INR 1,322 crores for the whole of the quarter, which is very heartening to note. And what is another point is that after a long time, I mean, all the targets which you had given, you have not only touched those targets, but even you went much beyond that only. If you look at the advances, especially which I -- the guidance was given at 15%, 16%, and you have done 18.29%, which is again another creditable point. Even deposit growth in these difficult times also is very good for the bank. RAM also, you have performed well. So on the whole, a fantastic performance for the quarter and the year, sir. Having said that, there are a few -- my first rather, I would say, not a question, but sort of an observation and also to hear your comments is on the ECL guidelines, which have been finalized by RBI, that now, of course, this time is very short when you -- but you have been working on that for a long time. Every bank is working on that. So where do we stand on that to meet the ECL provisioning and challenges, which starts from April 2027.

So thank you, Mr. Ajmera, for your observations of the bank's results. We'll continue to meet your expectations as we move ahead. On the ECL framework, the RBI has just taken out the guidelines yesterday. As you rightly observed that we have been working on this matter for quite some time in the bank. The guidelines -- final guidelines have just been announced. So we -- first of all, we need to study that. We were all busy with the results. So we were not able to really go into the -- deeply into the circular so far. However, from the overall scheme of things, my CRO, Mr. Dheeraj is here, he will take this question forward is that overall, we feel that as the RBI has given a room to spread the -- to implement it and spread the expected credit loss over a period of 5 years, I think we have -- we are well positioned and it is going to be taken into the reserves, P&L -- reserves segment. So I think we are not in too much of a -- we are more or less in a comfortable situation. And we may gain somewhere, we may lose somewhere. Overall, we have to just go through the circular in deep because certain changes they have done on the risk weight also -- and in totality, where you have to look into up to INR 500 crores, they have -- on the unrated part, they have also made some changes in a different circular. So overall, we have to now work together and conceptualize the requirement of RBI in the bank based on our legacy accounts. Now I request Mr. Dheeraj, our CRO, to clarify anything which he feels at this point of time.

Ashok, good morning. This circular is very much in line with the draft guidelines only. And like any other bank, we also like was preparing for this and overall in a good shape safe to develop the models and all. But now since clarity is there, so we'll be doing the final calculation and all. As far as impact is considered, since those 2 circular, one is ECL and the other one is on our RWA calculation and all, both are coming -- will be implemented from the same date. So overall impact will be easily absorbed and the second is around the 5 years glide path, which has been provided. So that will -- and the entire impact will be on the capital part only. So overall impact will be not that much actually. What we are expecting anywhere between INR 600 crores to INR 800 crores to give a number like, although not right to give a number at this point of time since my numbers are yet to be calculated. But overall, what I'm saying over a 5-year period of time, this is quite comfortable, and we can easily absorb it. And over a period of time, since my credit quality also have improved significantly. So my PD number also will come down -- has come down drastically. So then this will help me in reducing my overall ECL impact.

So Dheeraj, sir, I mean, when you say INR 600 crores to INR 800 crores will be the impact to you, have you built up already some cushion in the pool so that you can take it in one-go or you are going to spread? And when you say 5 years, is it 5 years? It is only up to 31st March 2030?

No, 2031. Till 2031, from 27 -- from '30, this is EIR, applicability of effective interest rate. I'll go through again since you have raised this question, '30 or '31. But till '31, I think it is there. And that EIR application is from 2030 -- from 1st April 2030. But again, we'll go through it since it...

Yes, yes. And how much we already have the cushion or the buffer against this expected loss?

Since it has to happen through capital only, so even like INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores, INR 800 crores also, even if the impact, it can be easily absorbed, like around INR 200 crores will be the impact on -- even if it is INR 800 crores, so around INR 160 crores will be the impact, it can be easily absorbed in the -- from the bank's capital buffer itself.

So our capital adequacy will not be impacted much.

It will not be impacted much.

No, thanks for clarifying this. And we will have further discussions now going on because still 4, 5 bank results are still left, and I think we will have a chance to discuss with the management. Sir, on this slippage front in this quarter, Saha, this increased to INR 355 crores as against INR 168 crores in the last quarter. But at the same time, the SMA-2, INR 569 crores has gone down to INR 96 crores only and SMA-1 has a little bit increased to INR 515 crores. So the whole combination, what color it gives, the slippages are because of some account from [ 2-2 ] NPA or the miscellaneous small amounts, which were already like -- were taken in consideration.

Yes. I think as I was making in my opening remarks, in terms of the slippages this quarter, these -- I have told in the various interactions in this con calls has been that, that while the overall asset quality continues to improve and become healthy for the bank in terms of corporate segment and the retail segment, there is still some residual stress in the agriculture and the MSME. And MSME is a product -- direct product of various developments in the economy of the country, the global situations that happened and it directly impacts the small MSME. So it is only -- it is not a matter of concern for us at this point of time because our collection efficiency is very robust. These are some of the weak accounts, which we thought let us recognize it and move ahead going forward. But in view of the certain developments on the national and the international front on the economic side, we need to be alert on this -- on the MSME segment. The stress that may build up in the MSME segment in the future. But as of now, we don't foresee any grave challenge. It could be -- it is just that we thought instead of carrying on with the stress, as per the IRAC norms, whatever was needed to be downgraded, we have downgraded them. And we will move ahead. In terms of the SMA, yes, if you find the overall number of SMA plus SMA 1 and SMA 2 above INR 5 crores, if you will find that in the December quarter, say, March '26 quarter, it has significantly come down. As I told earlier also, these numbers look inflated for the bank in view of the 2 state government guaranteed state government accounts. So it goes from one place to another place. But one good part, if you overall see is that the -- those accounts continue to be serviced well. There is no issue there. They may slip in 0 or 1 and 2 and again, move into a cycle. So the SMA-2, the important part, SMA-2 has come down significantly. And the SMA 1, which was one state government account, that also has cleared its dues in the course of April. So these things will continue to happen, but we don't foresee any inherent potential for account getting slipped because they are servicing in terms of the circumstances and because of the state government guarantee. So overall, my SMA book, which was at one point of time, I'm taking the total book, which was over 9% at one point of time. And now we are hovering around 4.21%, including these 2 state government guaranteed accounts. So if I leave out that 2 state government guaranteed accounts, my SMA would be around about 3%. And that's a pretty good number for the bank to have, but we need to be alert. We need to continue our efforts to improve our collection efficiency, particularly in the agri and the MSME segment.

Sir, one on the NIM side, the continuous quarter-on-quarter, there is a reduction, though the overall NIM for the year is 2.55%, which is also lower as compared to the -- and I understand there is a pressure on NIM. But going forward, what do we think -- I mean, what are the plans to take the NIM a little higher from the current levels? How do we [indiscernible] mix...

We are conscious of this. The bank has a historic low NIM of a low CASA -- because of low CASA and the fluctuations of the repo rate also has impacted it. But we feel that now we have absorbed the entire cycle of the repo cut of 125 bps. And we are -- we have taken various steps to improve our lending in the high-yielding side, particularly in the agri MSME segment. In the corporate side also, we have been selective, in terms of choosing our asset. And the pricing has been very, very -- it plays a very important role in what we do. So -- and also, we said that we also churn our balance sheet portfolio, credit portfolio among the AAAs, AAs and As. We get good -- we're doing a good robust co-lending -- we have a good robust co-lending platform, over INR 10,000 crores. That gives us good yields. But it will take a gradual progression will happen. So overall, we feel that by the end of the current year, we should be touching 2.65% to 2.70% in terms of the NIM. So we are moving in that direction. And we'll -- and we expect that with the retail, agri, MSME percentage going up further. And with no imminent visible rate cut scenario that is on the cards, hopefully, hopefully. We feel that the -- now the cycle will move on the -- I mean in terms of our income, it will move on the upward direction.

And the same will happen in the treasury also. I think the treasury also will start generating better profits.

Yes, yes. You have observed that the yield movement has impacted many banks balance sheets. And we hope that as the Gulf situation improves, we will have a favorable write-back in that area. But we keep our fingers crossed in that area.

But this geopolitical [indiscernible], I mean, this war has so far not been seen visible in all our portfolios. Any impact?

No, not really. Not really. I think government is much aware of this. They are going to -- sectorally, they are handling it. They will be, I think, working on some packages for various segments. But as of now, in our portfolio, yes, small MSMEs will get impacted if this lingers on a bit more than normal. That we feel that can happen. We're not having too much of ForEx business. So on that part, we are a bit immune on the impact. But overall, MSMEs, if in the long run, this continues to happen and without any plausible solution, there could be some futuristic cash flow impact on the MSMEs.

All the best to you sir. We will again have some chance to discuss it further.

Next question we have from Sushil sir.

Good morning team Punjab & Sind Bank for a very stable and well-guided management team has taken good pains to stabilize. Sir, you've strengthened your human resource. You've strengthened your HR processes. You've done well on digital to expand the footprint and otherwise. And even on working process, you have improved. But global challenges are going to emerge from where MSME and retail is concerned because income levels are going to be hit. So how is the April visibility in terms of bounce rate, new sanctions because you have guided for RAM at 60% specifically and foreign inflows also have stopped where individual markets are concerned.

Yes. I think that's a fair ask that Mr. Choksey is asking. And from that perspective, as I said to Mr. Ajmera's question is that while we have done -- we have taken various steps to improve our efficiency levels, the global situations, the hangover of the global situations will continue to impact the Indian banking system or the ecosystem. We need to be alert. We need to set benchmarks within the bank in terms of customer onboarding. Our business rule engines for the digital segment needs to maybe further relooked into. And overall, there is no room for complacency in terms of while the [ going ] is good, we should create proper mitigants in our journey, so that in any circumstance, if a circumstance arises in terms of any severe impact of the global situation, we should be able to be resilient enough to handle that situation. As of now, what I can -- at this point, what we foresee is that we expect the resolution in the global situation will be happened in a course of time that it has its own trajectory, but it will happen. And if it happens in a short period, then things will get again back to normal in terms of certain -- though there will be a short-term impact somewhere. So we'll keep ourselves alert. We'll work on the ground. We'll keep our field functionaries alert that and keep in touch with the customers if they find any inherent weakness building up in them. And that's how we will continue to monitor aggressively. We'll also be a bit more strong in our onboarding processes on our underwriting processes that will happen. So overall -- and in terms of, yes, that's what you said that regarding the trajectory of the new sanctions, I think we -- our trajectory shows that MSME is still going pretty strong in our sanction rate. Retail is also going very strongly, over 25%. So the sanctions continue to happen. In fact, last year, if you see, I forgot to mention that in the food and agro segment, there are also -- we did a lot of work last year on the agriculture front. And in our -- I think you have shown it in one of the slides that the food and agro has grown significantly compared to last year. So farm credit, et cetera. So I think we'll spread our risk among the 3 segments and build strong measures. But as of now, we feel that with -- and one more thing on the structural side, if you see, we have also now decentralized some of our big zones that we had, like we have carved out new -- now we call them regions, of course. We have carved out a new regional office in Raipur. We have carved out a region office in Bangalore, Bhubaneswar, Shimla. So what brings to the table is this that they become much more decentralized control on the branch network on the customers, which will help the bank to be more efficient, to be more cost effective. That's all we will continue to pursue.

Sir, then what is your digital spend? What is unavailed credit sanctioned up to current date? You said RAM is still looking -- specifically MSME is looking 25% uptick. Is it because of reassessment due to various raw materials spike by 30% to 50% or it is existing limit and existing customers, which are asking more limits?

Yes. It's a mixed bag so far. We are getting a lot of leads. We are -- as of the pipeline on the credit side. On the corporate side, we are around INR 18,000 on the corporate side. And if you see the last time when we discussed I think we talked around INR 10,000, INR 12,000. So the pipeline is now increasing. Pipeline is increasing in various segments. Pipeline is increasing in logistics like data centers, et cetera, on the infrastructure projects, LRDs, these are the pipeline that is increasing. On the overall retail, agri, MSME segment, I think the new -- as we go more and more digital, as we go more and more efficient way of delivery, I think there is still space in the market to garner more and more these sort of advances in the market. So it is a mixed bag for all of us to work on. Renewables also, we are getting good leads. We are working on that. So overall, things are looking -- on the credit cycle as far as our bank is concerned and our appetite is concerned, we feel that we have enough room to grow at a rate that we have just projected around 16% to 18%.

So as on today, you don't see meeting your targets which you have announced, meeting them seems a challenge.

Sorry, I didn't get you.

I mean deposit of 13%, 14%, advance at 16%, 18%, RAM at 60%, gross NPA at 2%, you don't see a challenge in any of these.

No, no, not at all. Not at all. Yes, on the bottom line answer is no.

Sir, if I ask you other way around, what are the 3 things which you would like to do differently than what you've done in the last 3 years, which would strengthen the bank?

See, that requires a bit of time to answer. But anyway, to be on the point, I think we need to -- as we have already said in our various communications, our operational resilience has to improve, first of all, the threats that are coming -- the media reports that are coming in various ways, the new threat of anthropic (sic) [ anthropogenic ] is also playing out in its own way. So -- and the dangers of mule accounts, digital arrest, and ALM money laundering, so many things are coming up in a different mode just nowadays. So the first and foremost thing as a financial institution is concerned is that I think the operational resilience has to be upgraded in a large way. And that's how we have brought in a lot of -- we have given some slides in the presentation that can be looked into. And so in terms of while we are taking a lot of care on the cyber front, the resilience operations center will be implementing another 3, 4 months' time, that will give a lot of visibility and cybersecurity. That's number one. Number two, we still need to work very strongly on the -- our branch network and expanding in the areas by culling out areas by data points where we can expand much more productively. We have engaged a global consultant to identify locations across the country where we are presently there or we are less present. And therefore, we will identify the pockets where we will -- we need to expand and which will give us much more organically and on a pan-India basis so that it is -- the growth has to be on a sustainable basis. Thirdly, our -- we have to work on our digital transformation. We are now -- the Board has approved for -- to go ahead with the next round of digital transformation in the bank. That is an area which we'd like to complete in this financial year. We'd like to launch the UniC 2.0 by the end of the financial year, which will have all the features of value-added features, which any bank is providing to any customer. That will enhance the customer experience and also bring in fresh acquisition opportunities for the bank in terms of the competitiveness in the deposit world. So expansion, digital transformation, operational resilience, there are some more. But as you asked 3, so I just pointed out 3 of them.

Sir, what is the budget for AI, cyber and digital footprint and the new road map for version 2.

Budgets, Ratnesh ji, do you have the numbers now or we can -- we are increasing around 2x our budget, but the exact number, we will provide to you separately.

Next question we have from [ Brijesh Mani ].

So my first question is, sir, what are the key drivers for growth in the gold loan portfolio in the coming quarter? Hello am I audible to you?

Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Any other question you have?

Okay. So what are the benefits are you seeing from investments in CRM, automation and chatbots?

Yes. Yes. So in the gold -- the key drivers, of course, we are now working on the -- both organic and inorganic. We are doing a lot of organic growth, identified branches for which can do gold loans. We have created specific SOPs, revised our SOPs, revised our guidelines, so that while the portfolio is increasing, we don't -- our risk absorption appetites are also worked accordingly. And it will be -- we'll also do our network through our branch network and also through the NBFC's co-lending model. So we will work on that, both on the agri and the non-agri part. And -- if you find that the key driver, one of the question would be -- answer would be that organically also, we are growing over 100% in the gold loan portfolio. So we'll have a mixed bag, both organic and through the co-lending. The second question that you had regarding the CRM, we have just established the CRM model, the chatbots. These are all in today's scenario, a basic necessity in terms of customer experience. We feel that we have already started feeling -- getting the benefits of the CRM. We have created a specific lead management cell within the bank. We have also created a marketing vertical within the bank. It's a new vertical that we have put in. So overall, the leads that are being generated through various methods are getting captured in a very professional manner, very systemic manner. And the leads that are going to the branches or the other offices are worked -- are followed up to their logical end through the specialized verticals. As far as the chatbots, et cetera, these are customer-facing models that we have implemented. It reduces the pressure on the call center at the back end. Many of the information that are provided to the customer through the chatbot on the website helps them to interact with the bank in a much more modernized manner and efficient manner. So the benefits are multiple. And as we go along, we have just implemented last year, we have stabilized the entire process. Now I think we will be able to go ahead and take the benefits out of that.

Next question we have from Sushil sir.

Sir, we are focusing on our RAM. Can we assess how many builder tie-ups we've done in NCR and the regions where we have strengthened? How many auto tie-ups, tractor tie-ups, EV manufacturers tie-up? What -- how are we focusing on the portfolio, which is more profitable, you may have more share from a wallet of individual customer in terms of various products. How many such tie-ups or co-lending partnership we have done that we can strengthen our processes?

Good morning Choksey, Ravi Mehra this side. Sir, somewhere around 85 tie-ups have been done for the housing builders during the last financial year. And as far as the co-lending partners are concerned, around 11 partners are there as of now. And with regard to the vehicle tie-ups, we have done with Mahindra and Maruti and we're also looking for -- going forward for Hyundai as well, Hyundai and Toyota.

And in 2-wheelers, sir, or we are not doing 2-wheelers?

2-wheelers, basically, we do sanction, but we don't have a tie-up as such.

We can -- what I can add here is that now we have the digital product on the secondhand vehicles, which is expected to give us returns. So we'll be tying up with this agency.

Maruti True Value, Hyundai.

Maruti True Value, et cetera. I think 3, 4 agencies are there -- which are there?

Cars24, [ CarWale ], Spinny.

So these are in the pipeline now.

Sir, how large is the portfolio on secondhand vehicles because it's more lucrative than normal cars, new car financing. And what is the growth visibility in that sector?

We're just commencing our journey in this. It's not much -- nothing to be too much of a figure at this point, but we have now devised the digital journey for that. I think that was important for us to -- before we launch the product in a bigger way. As of now, I don't think it is too much of a traction. But with this new digital method of lending on this segment, I think we'll get a good portfolio.

Next question, we have from Ashok sir.

Sir, now since we have broken the taboo that of a little lesser growing bank and this thing. And now we have, in fact, outperformed on every front, I mean, going to -- even -- especially on the -- even the deposit franchise -- deposit front also. And -- but our perennial basic problem has been lower CASA, and that is resulting in the lower NIM in spite of building our book. So sir, I mean, going forward and being a bank which is, I mean, so strong now, if you just forget about the numbers, the overall size that the bank can deliver anything and everything which any other public sector bank or any other commercial bank is giving. So on the pan-India basis, and can we do something radical to reach out to the people across the country? What are our -- I mean, is there any thought on [ favoring ] or thought on plans on this going forward that like, okay, now since we are already in the 18%, 20% growth zone, why don't we plan for next 2, 3 years because base is low, so a little higher growth in absolute numbers. So is there any strategy to bring up the overall business of the bank going forward?

I appreciate your point, -- is that, regarding the -- a bit more faster growth, if possible, and whether the bank is working in that direction. First of all, let me give our observation on this. While growth is essential, growth has to be qualitative. And therefore, it has to be much more -- we are building organization, which will last for a longer period from that perspective. So while the ask of a higher delta growth is what is all we aspire for. Let us also look into every bank has its own legacy. Every bank has its own way of doing things. Every bank has its own network channels and its strengths and weaknesses. So what the basic point was that if you find -- if you see, we have put in a slide in the presentation, where we have given a comparison of how the bank was growing in one period of time and how the bank is growing over the last few years, you will find the difference. Now it is better to move steadily, steadfastly, organically and structurally strong -- in a structurally strong manner. That is the first part of the -- your observation. The second part, what are we doing? The second part is exactly if you see -- and these things that are happening, if you see comparison of 5 years now and 5 years earlier, it cannot come in without our teams getting mobilized better, our systems getting robust, et cetera. So there is some effort that has gone there. In terms of macro numbers, I'll say that we intend to achieve INR 3 lakh crores by the current financial year. That's our aspiration figure. We have taken a Board approval to achieve INR 4 lakh crores by financial year FY '29. That means we need to add around INR 50,000 crores in the next 2 years, 3 years per year, INR 50,000 crores per year. So overall, the aspiration is to reach 4 lakh crore, and we have devised a strategic road map for achieving those numbers. And therefore, we feel that we are in the right track now. While should we push further, that's an internal assessment that we'll take at an appropriate time. But I don't think that is required. It is better to grow in a structurally -- structure and a solid manner without compromising on any other areas of governance standards, right? And therefore, if you see the various we have now organizational restructuring we have done in terms of strategy, what are the strategies that we have taken to grow faster in that way. Faster means, when I say faster means, qualitatively faster. So restructuring we have done in terms of the organization. We have now created a 4-tier structure across the bank. We have 4 -- 5 zonal head office, who have GMs are heading that. We have a new zonal offices -- regional offices created. Now we have 33 regional offices. We are expanding in terms of branch network across the country. We have planned 400 branches. We have created marketing vertical in the bank. We have now introduced Tab banking for customer acquisition, CRM for lead generation. We are leveraging on our digital initiatives. And more importantly, we are now very, very strongly monitoring our branch-wise productivity. That is the area where we will like to work in the current year. Our business per branch is around INR 158 crores, which is increasing, but it is still much below the average of the industry. So we are now working on branch rationalization, how do we improve our branch productivity across the bank, open new branches with substantial business. We have engaged a global consultant to identify the locations for us. We are creating a lot of products. We have got new central connect products for salary employees -- for salary accounts. Now we'll expand that central government package to the state government and other PSU employees. So we have a definite plan to take up -- to achieve those goalposts that we have envisaged. And we are -- of course, I missed out in our -- a very important development on the GIFT City. We have got the RBI approval. Sorry, I missed out in my earlier calculation. The GIFT City is very important for the bank. We expect to launch it by October this year. We have got the space also, some 1 or 2 more approvals are required. Staff has been identified and to put in. They are going to join that area in this week. The entire staff has been mobilized. The premises have been finalized. Some approvals are need to be taken. The IT systems are getting ready. So that, again, will give a good flip to our business strategic growth to achieve that INR 4 lakh crores by FY '29.

No, sir, it's very encouraging. I mean that's what I wanted to hear a INR 4 lakh crores bank by 29, 30 and maybe INR 5 lakhs immediately next year thereafter. So that's what exactly is required to reach something like a critical mass so that from there, then there is no stoppage to do anything which you want to do. And this GIFT City thing is, yes, definitely, I think many of the other banks have also adopted and it is yielding good results. So sir, when the question comes on that, then the main question comes up about the manpower and the training, training, training and training for the working day-to-day working, training on the advanced credit side, liability side, training for mainly the compliance side, which is also a very big issue these days. So many of those banks have carved out this training part from the HR, is there anything has been done like learning and development a separate vertical where the major emphasis given on the ongoing training to the staff, the new recruits and especially so many new provisions are coming, legal things are coming, compliance things are coming. So what are we doing on that front, sir? Is there because I'm a little not much aware about that happening in our bank.

Yes. I think we, of course, adopt best practices in any way -- anything that happens in any segment of our bank governance. And capacity building is very important, as you rightly said. So having understood this, that's why we launched this Navjyoti project, BCG is advising us on this. And we -- in the first part of the project, we implemented the target setting, succession plan, performance management system, tool-based assessments, so many things that we have implemented, which will give much more flip to the staff members to work on their target achievements, et cetera. Number two, this year, Navjyoti part 2 is only on skill development. And that is exactly what we are doing through the BCG again, where they have worked with all the banks, most of the -- nearly all the banks in this area. So we are getting the best of the best practices, which are getting implemented. And as you rightly said, that learning is a continuous process and the new threats that are evolving, new operational guidelines that are coming, we have to remain updated. So we have -- we are taking out in multiple fronts at the junior level, regular. We have now opened a new center of excellence. I missed out that also. We have opened a second training college in Chandigarh. It's a state-of-the-art training college that we have opened in Chandigarh because we have a significant presence in Punjab. So we thought that let us have a good setup in that. It's a state-of-the-art that we have created, excellence center that we have created. And so that we'll have 2 training colleges. We are also tied up with various other NIBSCOM Noida with other big management institutes, MDIs, IIMs, SBI Academy, all the other big banks academies. So we are using those platforms to send our people. And the new dimension that we have brought this year in our skill development is that we'll be identifying -- and we have identified 125 officers through a process at the 4 -- skilled 4 Chief Manager, 5 and 6 levels, who will be given specific trainings on the various events that are required to groom them as future leaders of the bank. They will be given personal coaching also. Coaches will be provided individually to these -- each of the 125 participants. And they will get a flavor of how personal grooming is also personal enhancement is also important while we do executive stuff, executive delivery. So a very, very professional way of doing things. We are also -- we are identifying people which we send abroad. We send good -- who have performed well to encourage them to do good trainings abroad. And we'll continue in multiple fronts. As far as creating a separate vertical is concerned, we'll take that call at an appropriate time. We feel that at the present juncture in our setup, our -- within the HR, it is good enough. I think there's a good setup in -- within the HR on learning and vertical -- on learning and development, I think that is good enough for us. Whether we need to segregate it from HR, we'll take an appropriate time. So bottom line is that this is an area which we have identified as a very key priority for the bank and an HR transformation exercise, that's why getting carried out in the bank and we'll get -- and this will be a continuous process that will continue to happen.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, everyone. As there are no further questions from the participants, we now conclude this conference. Should you have any further queries, please reach out to Mr. Ganesh Shankanawar at 7738688746 or [email protected]. Details are mentioned in the Webex chat and the analyst invitation sent to you earlier. On behalf of Punjab & Sind Bank, I thank you each one of you for joining the conference call today. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you. Have a good day ahead.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ganesh. Thank you all for joining. Thank you very much.