Ratnamani Metals & Tubes Limited (520111) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Ratnamani Metals & Tubes Limited Q4 FY '20 earnings conference call, hosted by Monarch Networth Capital Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vishal Sanghavi from Monarch Networth Capital Limited. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

Thank you, Good evening to all. On behalf of Monarch Networth Capital, we welcome you for the Ratnamani Metals & Tubes Q4 FY '20 Earnings Call. From the management side today, we have with us their MD, Mr. Prakash Sanghvi Sir, and their CFO, Mr. Vimal Katta sir. So without taking much time, I'll hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Good evening. And first of all, I hope everyone is safe from this COVID-19. And as we pray to God we all remain state and work from home, work from office very precautionary manner, very disciplinary manner, because we see, we don't know how it is -- how long it will go. So we have to take all the precautions, all the safety measures. And now for Ratnamani Metals & Tubes Limited, hope everybody have the results. Yesterday, we were having the Board meeting. And the cost line for the year total is INR 2,645 crores, and the net profit INR 2,307.45 crores. Overall, we did really we did a good hard work. And we reached a turnout of INR 2,645 crores, and net profit of INR 307 crores. So first of all, I really appreciate my team. If they did the hard work and create a history high bottom line. And we have further enhance about INR 1,380 crores. In that, there is INR 503 crores is export and post product mix of standard steel and carbon steel. Overall, this is COVID-19, of course, everybody is effected in this country, in this world, and we also have effected a little bit and so in last quarter, our -- has taken place, as we have done last 10 days of the March '20. But overall, the work-in process and some of the finished materials were there. And that we are taking this in the first quarter of this financial year -- new financial year. And of course, starting of 45 days, we were also close because of this lockdown. And then one-by-one all the 3 units we have started with a limited number of working and limited period of working. And slowly schedule -- need payment to all 3 plants working 2 shifts of 12 hours. Again, but the limited numbers of 60% of workforce. Because some of the workforce have gone to native and they have not came back so far. So we are trying our best to get them back. But we are working on 60% in all front in all the 3 units. And hopefully, in a month or 2, if I will come back and we will increase men. And even in COVID-19, some of the critical maintenance, we were working at taken because there is no production activity, so they have taken some maintenance and everything. And now we are running full up to a 60% production capacity. And looking forward, the business is because had gone down, so certain slow in order bookings, some of the projects is being hold, especially for refinery activity, but there is a petrochemical other line site, other [indiscernible], I think power all such is going on. And in last 2 months also, we had put the reasonable INR 200 crores so from international as well as local, the domestic market also. Mainly, this oil site has gone down, so some of the projects are delayed, and they will take some more time to finalize, even some of the tenders we did that as an And hopefully, in second quarter, something will materialize in somewhere we become a center of on, somewhere we can help also. So there are major order expected in the second quarter of this financial year. Otherwise, overall, of course, there is an effect of COVID everywhere, directly or indirectly because of supply chain, some consumers or some manpower issue. So this quarter has gone not as expected and even second quarter also, because there is number of volume, also decrease in the cases, so everybody have a fear. And how it will go second quarter also that's difficult. But for with Ratnamani, we have sufficient raw materials and some good orders in hand for production activity is going on. Overall, we will see in second quarter end where we will end up because we cannot say right now how it will go. So the company's target is their internal target and everything is there, but let's see how the COVID-19 will go according to company's working will be for the future. Thank you. One more thing is, last thing, I'll tell about the project. Both the projects are totally commissioned. But again, this COVID-19, the people from abroad, Germany and Italy, they have gone back on this 24th of March. And they're supposed to start this selective [indiscernible] for trans production. But 1% which is better also delayed. It is more expected once the international site will start. And the company will permit them to come to India and start our this design plants. So this is also again delayed. Otherwise, at our end, total commissioning and everything is ready. Even we put some growth in also to a distance. So everything is ready. Once they will come, we'll start production for At the same time in carbon steel also with an expansion of 120,000 tonnes of LSAW pipes, the total plant is commissioned. And even they hand over to us. But in the meantime, we have to take API approval, API Monogram. And that again their visit from abroad. So that is also again pending. The port will start once the things are start internationally, people should visit us, and then we'll get an approval. So this is what the situation of both the standard steel as well as carbon steel. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Ashutosh Tiwari from

Congrats on good set of numbers. So just want to touch upon again upon this new order booking. And so just one side that now things are slowly opening up. So are you seeing that the customers, like the potential customers are starting the process for new orders? Or that still not started --

In last 2 months, we have booked other INR 200 crores plus order, and they are asking negotiating, they're calling for quotation, ever sooner we become as one also at the tender already often for line pipe. But it is -- all activity is a little slow actually. To things are edge is going, how it will work for upward second quarter, you don't know. But still the despites are taking place. The orders are coming. Some of the quoted regularly we are bidding. So all things are -- activities are there, but it's all slow, that's all.

Okay. But customers have started with the process of giving orders and all this. I think process has stated.

Yes. We received the order also. Yes, we received also more than INR 200 crores plus.

Okay. So may be slow, but I think process is on the way.

Yes. Process is -- yes. All the -- it is a little slow because of this -- see, directly, indirectly, we are reflecting also because lot many supply chain, they have a second set city like Bombay, so many people are still not working from home, did that deliver take there. So somewhere, somewhere we are stuck up. Otherwise, things are going everyday.

Okay. And this -- there is a big project of arranging Canada is going on you mentioned last time. So let's say, have you got any orders on there or in the process of bidded over there?

See, go -- indirectly order from them. Order goes by L&T for the equipment, and we do then order of, let's say, INR 35 crores worth -- just single order from L&T for detecting the cube for L&T Canada.

Okay. Okay. So can we see more orders to come from this because last visit?

No. I don't think more or more procurement is pending for L&T Canada because it's since last year, no procurement has taken place. But we are hoping this Mozambique. L&T Mozambique are going to start. Earlier, it was under hold. Now they're going to start. And they are again with EPC [indiscernible] Okay. So because we are doing already for Canada and other, so we are hoping good requirement from them to come in time to come.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And we have discussed that with the new seamless plant, basically we also initially will look at more of distributors, which are based in U.S., Europe and Middle East and also, I mean, on that front also, we are on track for supplier where plant get commissioned and handover happens?

Yes. Once plant commissioned because we need some confidence. Yes, if plant commissioned and product is coming well as we required, then only we will be aggressive. Because suppose we make a commitment and suppose because this is a new thing. And because now -- they are calling, again, we are very -- if it is long, then our commitment could for all, we have to import and give to them once we are committed. So we are a little slow in booking the order. Once start, then definitely, we will -- for full fledged with marketing U.S., Europe, even Middle East and domestic. Even today, we have booked some order based on our plant only. And today import, because ultimately we have to delivery

Okay. So definitely, the imports will be order.

Yes. Tell me...

You are doing -- you are saying that you're doing -- type pipe for that order that you have?

Yes. Because support I have committed -- material and what size I'm not -- I double the produce of new expansion, and it is not on time. So I have to import and give it to them. Because the order is with me and in my commitment for delivery.

[indiscernible] has imported and really finishing and then supply --

Okay. And in the carbon steel segment, we've seen some fall in the outstanding order book. So what is the visibility we have now in terms of new projects, which are there in for the pipeline [indiscernible]

See there is -- in carbon steel, there is a 2 division. One is line type and And line side was, we have a lot of tenders for IOCL and this, and we -- they have already opened revers and everything. And we are helping in some of the other. But all the things will take place in July. The orders incoming will in July. And the CGD orders are also there. And in a project typing, could this all depend on the refinery. We have quoted about more than INR 200 crores at tenders to them. And they have asked for the DDG extension. So it will take a little more time. I think everything because of this COVID, things are getting delayed. Because the new refineries there are a number of income. But right now, it has not started.

Okay. The you mentioned it will mainly be --

If from stainless steel also -- number of things will go once it starts. Because line sites for their water requirement, there is a huge kilometers and tender then the entire project piping will go to them. Then there be a -- to piping. One thing will come different, different. Something through them and something through PPC because the package gone by -- by Petro by L&T or people have -- different, different packages.

Okay. Okay. And lastly, to Vimal sir. If I look at the balance sheet base, the guidance on other current of INR 209 crores versus INR 88 crores last year. What is this amount request to?

Can you repeat the question, please?

In the balance sheet, other current liabilities, there is an amount of INR 209.65 crores versus INR 88.7 crores last year. So this is a big jump. What is this related to?

Sir, mainly related to customers. Some -- there is a from customers. Then some capital are timing like is retention and other things are there.

Okay. Okay. Got it. Mainly capital savings. The plant is already commissioned.

[Operator Instructions] [Technical Difficulty] We will move on to the next question that is from the line of Vikash Singh from PhillipCapital.

Hope you all are fine. Sir, I like to understand one thing. Sir, in terms of the approval, since -- because of travel restriction and all that, these approvals may get delayed. So meanwhile, is it possible for us that simultaneously, the domestic customer, their approvals may Or those approvals will start only after we get the API approval?

In those -- in carbon steel, we need first this approval, even for domestic market also. All these refinery, petrochemical they are believing this approval, number one. Number two, even in stainless steel also, we can do something for domestic market and export. There is not much in necessary the approval of the different, different. But unfortunately, the vendors are coming from Italy and Germany to start with. So once they the site and their company and their country to submit us --

[indiscernible] Sorry, sir, I -- I lost your voice in between.

What I mean to say, carbon steel, there is a -- we need IS standard, BIS approval, then we need API approval, then only we can produce in carbon steel. So there is -- both are local, but API people are coming from abroad all this. So it is -- once the internal site will start and the moment of country to country flying is permissible, then only people will visit us and then we can get audited and start plant and we'll start. In the meantime, we are trying to get the local this BI's approval, and we can start local, what you said is right. Some local requirements, as pre BI's -- but not for API or something like that. Whereas in stainless steel, we can definitely once we start, we can definitely do some orders from domestic market and some per export, where we will not wait for an approval. But the start of the plant, the trial production, we are totally dependent on a vendor from Germany and Italy. They will supply all the equipments. So they will not handover the equipment, of course, commissioning [Technical Difficulty]

Sorry to interrupt, sir. Mr. Vikash Singh, are you able to hear us?

Hello? Now I can hear you, but in between the voice was dropping, actually.

Okay. Now you're hearing no?

Perfect, sir.

Okay. So in extrusion, in stainless steel, we are just waiting for our vendor to come and start the trial production. And then definitely, we can do some order book from the domestic market and some internal distributor or stockish, definitely. But because of flying of our vendors from abroad, is difficult now did not from permissible. So we are waiting for that by July, definitely, they will open and something will -- they will come in August or July end, and there we can take trial production. So that all depends how it goes this COVID-19.

Understood, sir. Sir, just a little more on that. So whenever, let's say, they are allowed to come and have the inspection. So after the inspection, what is the usual time line or the month before getting the API approval?

For -- because approval itself will take time, their lead time is, say 45 days, once they audit. And then within 45 days, they will come back for -- if there is any queries or they can issue a license. So it's a process of 2 months, you can say.

Understood. And sir, secondly, this new capacity is of plant, which has come up. We were talking about a lot of replacement markets in India because of this product segment, which we are going to produce. So do we still maintaining that kind of market is there? Or we are experiencing a little bit of market contraction uplift?

No, there is a real good market, domestic market is gone. Because such size even today, anybody is importing. So the -- it is an import substitute to the size rent and the capacity that we are putting. So definitely, once we start the things, we will get the -- even today also, I've got the order in hand. But my project is delay, I have to import -- do finishing at our end and give it to the customer. Because I'm hoping we will start early in February, March, and we can deliver from that. But now with this COVID, it is totally delayed. And so I'm importing material mother pipe and doing finishing work and giving to my customer over here in domestic market.

Okay. And sir, this -- our export in SS segments, our export order has been jumped almost double. So business is just a one quarter phenomena? Or we are still -- despite standup oil crash with just recently that still being inquires been pretty good in the export market?

Oil crash is more topic exploration, not to refinery, petrochemical, line pipe, all such. This immediate effect on the exploration. And that, I think, U.S. sales, they stop their exploration or something like that. They reduce the producing the oil -- direct crude oil. Otherwise, refinery, petrochemical, line pipes, CGD, all things are going. And still there are tenders are coming. It is immediate effect on exploration.

So sir, if we can bifurcate what percentage of total [indiscernible]

See, we are not there in exploration. We are not at all there in exploration right now. Of course, we will -- with this new capacity, we'll do something for exploration, but not immediate because that's the product in special products, super or nickel alloy, and it will take time 2 to 3 years. By that time, everything will be all right, oil price and everything. So of course, we can -- we will do something with this new capacity for oil exploration also. And there is a good demand worldwide also. Only 2, 3 manufacturers are produced for such quality of pipe. And to us, also, it will take some more time to establish ourself.

Understood. Sir, just one last question. In line pipe, what we had seen in last quarter, before the COVID, the new orders was difficult to come by, and there was a delay, overall. So considering that the more company chasing few orders, how do you see the competitive intensity in that segment?

No. See, we are quite competitive. There is no worry about it. Only things are getting delayed. Number of tenders also reported, but the decisions are not taking -- everybody is working from home, this that. So all these disturbance, things are delayed. So everything of first quarter will go to second quarter and something will go to third quarter. This is -- but we are having order in hand that we are dispatching. So according to me, in some of the segment, I'm okay. Until December, I have a good order in hand. In some of the segment, I were up to July, August only work. So it will go. By that time, something will come. [Technical Difficulty]

Hello, Mr. Singh?

Yes. Yes. Can you hear my voice?

[indiscernible]

[indiscernible]

Okay. In between is my line is dropping. Yes, sir. I think problem is with my line. And sir, just one, what is our bid book right now? Since you're saying that certain orders and others are what is our bid book right now?

Bid book, what is order booking, you mean to say?

No. Sir, of course, let's say, definitely, the tenders for this year have already booked -- bidded and tenders have not opened yet.

Please -- I think we have quoted for INR 200 crores in different, difference -- about total INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores we have quoted. But out of we are quite hopeful because we are L1 also. So about INR 180 crores worth order may come in July.

The next question is from the line of Rakesh Kapoor from Kapoor Company.

Sir, Saket, this side. Sir, firstly, sir, yesterday, there were -- there was a conference for steel pipes -- uses of steel -- steel use in the oil and gas sector. So our company participated, it was hosted by the Oil ministry?

Yes. Because yesterday, our Board meeting was there, but some of our carbon steel business that might have attended, it was with the Dharmendra Pradhan. We have got an invitation also to participate from our end. Due to this Board meeting, but some of the senior might have attended.

Okay, sir. So any color, sir, on what the government is exactly thinking, sir? [Foreign Language] And the financials on the -- the CapEx has to be done from the government side, and it has -- very less power to now spend or spur the spending. In fact, there will be a crunch on the finances. So sir, what is the --

No, no. In spite of that, even -- yesterday's meeting before, even Mr. Dharmendra Pradhan had given about INR 8,000 crores worth pipeline to be issued the order in next 6 to 12 months. So because they are bullish. And in this time, they would like to be more order to the different, different manufacturer in the country. And then things will go, the UTC will come for laying. They want to put things because infrastructure only they can do more because they're long term projects. So they inform and there are -- because of this CGD district, they have given various district to various places to various parties. So there should be a front line, there should be a -- this cross country pipeline, then only they will get the ultimate guess from that. So that all plan is there, and they are really bullish. They say, we would like to -- but if this little disturbance of COVID, I say everyone, and that the reason things are slow actually.

Okay. Sir, taking into account, I wanted to understand, sir, how long -- can it take -- whether the words will follow-up in action or not, because the way the things that have crunched and the way 45 days have passed and the time it will take for recovery, whether the things which are being put up the way government is planning that the CapEx will happen on ground. Do you think that this trend will be translated? Or will it be an elongated process?

No. No. It is translated. Unfortunately, only our country had stopped the manufacturing. If you can say other people or other countries also did the lockdown. But you take Germany, even this Italy. Everybody had worked and there is a lockdown also. Unfortunately, at our end, in our country, only everything stopped in a moment. And that has become a little surprise to everyone and everybody has taken pain, right from labor to manufacture and owner, promoter everyone. Otherwise, you can say, even our people are working in Germany. We have taken some second plant from there. They are working since last 3 months over there. Only they cannot come back, they're supposed to come another team can go, but they are working there smoothly. There's no problem over there. So the things will move in -- now things are started in our country, even if you can say, we have good dispatches started. In last 2 months, we have had a very good disparate with this oil crisis. That's how, so things are moving. Only somewhere in supply chain has come difficulty from consumable are not available. They are in containment zone or something like that. Otherwise, things are moving.

Sir, we have read in the newspaper that a lot of trust has been given to restart the fertilizer plants, especially these urea plants that have been stranded. So sir, what kind of opportunity does our organization derive on the restarting of these fertilizer units?

Any fertilizer running unit, they at least need maintenance and replacement material only. For fertilizer, anything new coming, they required a bulk of pipe and 2. So that we will check. Now I think there are some pending -- the projects are there. So we will get.

With the 5 plants they have mentioned today, in Gorakhpur, Baroni, and Talcher.

It will definitely come --

This will definitely manufacture. Okay, sir. It will more of?

Stainless steel pipe and tube -- because of corrosion.

Okay. And there, sir, we will be arranging the mother -- we have to import and then do the job work or --

No. No. No. By that time, our facility will start this excision and everything. So more or less, 90% we were going to do from here only, everything from right from country.

All right, sir. And one question to Vimal sir.

Sorry, sir. Mr. Kapoor.

Okay. Okay. I'll come in the queue. No issue.

The next question is from the line of Monika Arora from Shares Giant Weld Adviser.

Sir, I have just up on the part where you have given the revenue bifurcation for carbon steel and stainless steel. Could you repeat, sir, please?

So order booking in stainless steel is about INR 660 crores. Out of that INR 214 crores is export. And carbon steel about INR 720 crores, out of that INR 289 crores is export. So total order booking is INR 1,380 crores, and out of that INR 503 crores is export.

Okay. And sir, the revenue bifurcation?

Madam, roughly INR 836 crores were contributed by stainless steel division, INR 1,736 crores by carbon steel division. And non-distributable income was roughly INR 73 crores. So total came to INR 2,645 crores sort of thing.

The next question from the line of Raja from BNP Securities.

Sir, what is the total out of the [indiscernible]

Yes. I just now told, about INR 1,380 crores, as on 1st of June.

Okay. Okay. Sir, with the expected lower utilization levels this year on the expanded capacity, so what are the plans to cut the cost and maintain the historically breakeven levels? So for many years, we have been reporting 15% margin and breakeven

It will remain there, 14% to 16% range, 15% range, yes, 15% to 18% range. There is no -- if you can see the yesterday's results, of course, there were no any impact of COVID-19 on that. But if you can still have 8- to 10-year data, it is always between 16% to 18%, 19% EBITDA level. Because the company has very good robust product mix and full size range and number of grades, number of segments. So something or other, the company is getting sometimes power, nuclear power, than fertilizer than the petrochemical line pipe, distribution, refinery, something or other is coming with the company. And is not focused on one particular segment. It is very versatile Any core sector, whatever they require, it is there.

Okay. Sir, in the employee cost, how much is variable costs?

Variable will be mainly related to the Motors -- full time Directors' commission, which is linked to performance of the company. So that is mainly variable. Plus -- otherwise, the employee cost is mainly fixed, you can say, full-time employee.

Okay. Okay. So depending on the projects, we can dynamically, we can --

See, the new projects will not involve a lot of new employees. Those will be very lean projects. Those are going to be very lean project, highly automated. And at senior level, existing people will be taking care. So incremental employment will not be significant for the new projects.

The next question is from the line Aniket Narayan from Securities.

Sir, could you give the volume mix breakup, sir, for fourth quarter of the industry and

Mr. -- already made to Mr. Sailash.

Okay, sir. Yes, sir. Sir, today, there was articles regarding the [indiscernible]

Yes. In fourth quarter, steel sale was roughly 5,874 metric tonnes. Carbon is still -- close to 60,663 metric tonnes.

Yes. So today, there was article like, the oil refining has been expanded from 249 metric tonnes currently to 500 metric tonnes?

Yes.

Of what certain business opportunities like we see for next 10 years, like from the --

See, basically, in case of any refinery and Sasken CapEx, 8% to 10% of their CapEx cost is surely pipes and tubes of all varieties, which includes stainless steel, carbon Steel, alloy steel and other. So good opportunities based on the overall product cost will be there. Let us see. Whereas in case of refinery, so it will take some time before one can be very sure given the CapEx will -- CapEx cycle will start. Because right now, we are seeing -- even in case of refinery certain delays are there. So one since prices of could settle down and financial position of the government improves, then only serious work can start.

I think we see [indiscernible] things are going more

So are we currently still having that more than 60% exposure to oil and gas segments, sir, like --

Yes. Yes. Yes. See, basically, our exposure in stainless steel will be almost 50%, 60% to oil and gas sector. Maybe it is a very continuous process industry. Then in case of carbon steel, LSW, it will be 100% to oil and gas, refineries and petrochemicals. In case of TRW, again, it will be 100% oil and gas sector, TGG. Okay. In case Helical or, right now, it is 100% oil and gas. But going forward, if opportunities are not sufficient in oil and gas, means cross 20 pipelines, then we can look at opportunities in water distribution also. So the situation is like that.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Rakesh Kapoor from Kapoor Company.

Sir, on the other current asset part, we have seen the figure of -- last year figure of INR 14 crores and this year's of INR 71 crores. What constitutes this increase, sir?

Yes. Just a minute.

And sir, secondly, sir, as the government is pushing for the Jagran local -- local and Atmanirbhar Bharat, what kind of a beauty benefit can that domestic producers should be looking for to have an advantage from the pipes -- from the pipe being imported in the country? Any duty structure changes?

No. So far, duty strategic about 10% to 11% only on import of pipe. But the recommendation had gone from the manufacturer, local manufacturer, it can go up to 25% in near future, number one. Number two, the things had gone for antidumping duty on China for stainless steel pipe. So far, there is not much capacity in the country, but the new capacity is coming in the country. And for that, because it take a further 8 to 12 months or to dispursements of antidumping. So the association has already applied for antidumping duty also. And this second question your -- and one more thing they did for any tender of up to INR 200 crores with the PSU and state government PSU, they have to go for local only. They should not take any import quotation for that. So these are the help what we will get as a local manufacturer. Yes.

Saket, mainly movement in the current assets because of capital advances for ongoing CapEx, then advances to raw material suppliers, then certain GST balances because of procurement of raw material.

Perfect. And sir, and the capital work in progress, this INR 370 crores, the entire sum will be capitalized by March even --

Yes, definitely, definitely. We are waiting for those trial runs to have -- which are waiting for the visit of consultant for minor testing, yes.

Right. And the incremental depreciation of what we can anticipate on a --

See, under companies act, it will be dependent on the number of shifts those new plants are going to work. So -- but at peak level, means for the full year, if working is there, so roughly INR 25 crores of incremental depreciation will be there.

Right. Right. And all the best, sir. And pray to God that this trouble is over sooner.

The next question is from the line of Manash Bandai from Dhanki Securities.

Sir, I had a couple of questions. One is on the new facilities, which you rightly stated that been delaying the taking the approvals due to the traveling restrictions. And as soon as that is progressing, you will be starting the trial run. Sir, as per the earlier discussion, the trial runs were expected to begin in somewhere in July and August '20, and the commercial production was due to commence somewhere in October. So are you maintaining this guidance that --

Yes, most probably, most probably, if everything goes well, at COVID level, because our -- the moment the travel restriction will go out and then their company will come to visit India -- because everything is there total commissioning take place, all the equipment on place, power is there, everything is there. Only we were -- because this equipment were not handover to us, and it is under warranty. So we cannot start the thing. Anything goes wrong, then they will put on us. So we are waiting them. And once you start them then, then we'll take the person. And definitely, October November, we can start dispatching also out of that. Even we the raw material also for that. We were ready by February also, February-March. But this had happened, lockdown and although they have gone back.

Okay. Okay. And sir, as regards to your ERW pipe's capacity expansion of 50,000 --

Yes, that is also going on earlier. We have tried for September, but now it will go on November. Because, again, this COVID -- Because the construction is going on, some all the equipments have order, but the equipment will be delayed, and that's the reason it will be by November, you can say.

By November, the commercial production or the trial run?

Trial run. But then it will -- because it is a mill is running. It is the only finishing line what we are putting. Because the capacity is there, finishing capacity is not there.

Okay. Okay. And sir, we understand that there was almost in April also, for many days there was lockdown. So the utilization levels may have declined significantly. So just can you throw some light on how much of the utilization levels in April? And how has been the improvement in May and then in the first of June?

See in this particular first quarter, 2, 3 things what we did, of course, we are working with 50%, 60% workforce, and people have gone back to their native and those on that, and we are calling that. But we did one more good thing. Instead of 3 shifts, we are working for 2 shifts. So we can better utilize your manpower because now government also permitted because of this crisis, you can use off your manpower 12 hours and pay something 1.5x of the basic of the 8 hours. So we have at all 3 plants, we did that 2 shift, 12-hour working, so we can get better productivity. And everything is there, raw material, consumable, orders, everything is there. So fortunately, we are doing good productive -- production, dispatches and receivable also getting. So all activities are going well. According to our company, corporate for the company, according to me, we are working reasonably good in terms of receivable, in terms of raw material gating, in terms of production, dispatch. Dispatches also, we have good dispatches took place in last 2 months.

Sir, so approximately, can you give a rough number of how much was the capacity utilization during these 2 months in April and May? So overall capacity utilization?

Yes. Yes. basically, our plant operation has started from 20th of April. And gradually, production have picked up. So in stainless steel seamless, right now, we should be closer to anything between 70% to 90% in different, different section. Okay. carbon steel, Helical ERW will be closer to 50%, 60%. Again, depending on this thing. Similar is the case with LSW. So that now sees are happening? And we are expecting we should be in a position to have the top line of what I had earlier also discussed, anything listen INR 2,000 crores to INR 2,400 crores is possible, depending on how the things -- how fast the things improve. Because from our side, we are ready.

Okay. Just one last question. Looking at the trend of your overall -- the order book, the favor of stainless now it seems like that. So the share of the order book is almost 48% of stainless steel. So is the net debt the most bipartisan elections, which have happened in lockdown, now we are confident of getting more orders from the refineries and petchems and line pipes are basically getting delayed? Or it is just a temporary kind of increase in the order book is stainless steel around [ 16 ]

See, stainless steel anyway, top line will also be in sync with the increase in order book, means gradually, we should be seeing the upward movement in performance of the stainless steel division, which was -- like sort of flattish in the last couple of times. Because we are getting certain approvals in international markets also in special grades, high value-added products. That is paying off now -- that investment is paying off now. Similarly, our titanium division is also doing fine. Product has been well received in the market. So that division is also doing well. In case of line pipe, once the because standing processes have been delayed a little bit because of COVID. So once they start opening up and finalization start happening, then we may see large size order inflows also depending on how fast decessions are taken. Because carbon steel division is mainly dependent on few opportunities. Small, small orders will not be there in case of line pipes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Monika Arora from Shares Joint Wealth Adviser.

Sir, can you give me the volume breakup?

I'll just share with you. And my request is, if you can just drop me a mail, I will add your e-mail ID in my mailing list, so you'll be getting this update immediately.

Okay. Sure, sir.

For the entire year, stainless steel division did 20,397 tonnes of sale. And carbon steel 5 division did [ 11,777 ] metric tonnes of sale. Do you have my mail ID. It is there on our website also. Just drop me a mail. I'll you. Yes. Yes.

Sure, sir. Sure. I'll drop you a mail. And sir, also, I wanted to know that what is your take-on-like, you indicated that there would be a revenue of, say, around INR 2,400 crores to INR 2,500 crores for this year?

No. No. No. INR 2,000 crores to INR 2,400 crores.

Yes. Okay. INR 2,000 to INR 2,400 crores?

Yes.

Sir, what is your indication in regards to the profitability as far as --

Madam, actually, our -- we still are holding that 15% to 18% at EBITDA level, that's correct. Yes. Reason being opening order book position as of May was roughly INR 1,500 crores plus. So considering their margins have been good in line with whatever we have been making. And if incremental orders of this INR 500 crores, INR 600 crores, which we need to execute, so those are also in line with these. So probably, in what scenario, we may end up nearer to 16%. And otherwise, things are right -- maybe nearer to 18%.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of from Dhanki Securities.

Sir, I just asking a couple of questions. One was, there was a substantial increase in the other income during the quarter. If we see, it has jumped up from INR 2.6 crores to round INR 14 crores. So was it a clean element of ForEx gains in this income portion?

I'll be coming to that. Just one minute. See, mainly, mainly, jumps in income from investments. Okay. Yes. Yes. That figure has moved up quite significantly, other operating -- other nonoperating income. [indiscernible] ForEx is same. Last year was roughly INR 28.05 crores, this year is INR 28.24 crores, significant moment. No significant moment. For major jumping because of these things.

Okay. So this is for full year, INR 28.2 crores of ForEx gains?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Okay. Okay, sir. And one more question was that we were planning to add -- borrow INR 150 crores of term loan, like end of this fiscal, so a committed amount, it was specified earlier. But in your balance sheet, it seems that the term loans are INR 175 crores only. So --

No. See, now we need to bifurcate between short-term and long-term. So total INR 200 crores, we had drawn up to 31st of March. And remaining INR 100 crores is yet to be drawn, yes.

Okay. So this INR [ 400 ] crores has been drawn, so INR 175 crores is term-loan and --

INR 175 crores is in long-term and INR 25 crores will be short-term because repayment bill will be started.

Okay. Fine. And the remaining INR 100 crores you will be drawing in this financial year?

Yes. We need to draw, yes.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to Vishal Sanghavi for his closing comments.

Thank you, Vimal sir, and thank you, Prakash sir for explaining all the operations and very much detail in answering all the questions of the investors. On behalf of Monarch Networth, we also thank all the participants for joining in the call. Prakash sir, do you want to give any closing comments or should we end the call?

Closing in this, we pray God this COVID go ahead as fast as possible, so we can work as usual. That's the thing. And our -- both the projects expansion that has to be completed as far as possible. And we have to start the production over there. This is what the final conclusion, you can say. Otherwise, everything is good, and we are quite hopeful we will do our best possible because the company has a very wide range, segment, grade, diameter, thickness. So we are getting something on other. It is not one product line company. It is a number of things. So company is getting a different, different sector, different, different requirement and fulfilling more of the import substitute in the stainless steel division. Thank you.

Thank you.