RaySearch Laboratories AB (publ) (RAYB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to the presentation of RaySearch Interim Report for the first quarter of 2025. My name is Henrik Preifors, and I will be the moderator today. Joining us today in today's call is Johan Lof, RaySearch, Founder and CEO; and Nina Gronberg, our CFO. Johan and Nina will give you a brief summary of the quarter, including the financials, and after that, we open up for questions. I also want to remind you that this session is being recorded, and you will be able to find it on our website in the upcoming days. With that, I hand it over to you. Johan, please go ahead.

Thank you Henrik. I would also like to welcome all of you to today's webcast. I'm happy to announce that our sales for the first quarter were our highest ever SEK 332 million, compared with the same period of 2024 the increase was 29%. Operating profit was SEK 75 million, corresponding to an operating margin of 23%. The improved margin was mainly driven by increased license revenue, which amounted to SEK 165 million. Because of the political turbulence in the U.S., operating profit was affected more than usual by exchange rate fluctuations. Excluding those, operating profit would have been SEK 95 million, which corresponds to an operating margin of 29%. Order intake was SEK 410 million, representing a 72% increase. To summarize, we're maintaining a solid momentum, and outlook for continued growth remains very positive. In addition, RaySearch has a strong financial position with cash and cash equivalents of SEK 503 million, stable cash flow and no loans. In early March, Heyou Hospital in Foshan City in China placed an order for RayStation worth SEK 77 million. Of this SEK 26 million was recognized in the first quarter. This is the third largest order in RaySearch history, and the biggest we've had since December 2022. Apart from the large order value, what makes this agreement exciting is that Heyou is the first customer to use RayStation with a combined Hitachi carbon ion machine and proton machine. They will also be using the system for the conventional photon therapy. The order strengthens our already solid market leader position in treatment planning for particle therapy. Moving to Europe, Odense University Hospital in Southern Denmark also placed an order for RayStation. The hospital is known for its advanced use of automation to deliver high-quality and efficient cancer care. Majority of the order valid at around SEK 15 million excluding service contracts, was recognized as revenue in the first quarter. With RayStation, the center is taking a major step forward in automating the entire treatment planning process. It's a great example of how hospitals are using our technology to advance the field of treatment planning. Royal Marsden NHS Foundation Trust in the U.K. has become the first hospital to treat the patient using a new adaptive replanning module, including in the latest RayStation release. This new module allows for faster, more efficient treatment adjustments, which saves valuable time for both clinicians and patients. The next step for Marsden in the development is to add RayCare, as this could further reduce treatment time. We're looking forward to continuing our close collaboration with the professional team at Marsden. As I just mentioned, the new adaptive replanning module is included in the latest version of RayStation, which was launched last week. We have continued our efforts to automate as much as possible all the treatment planning process and apart from the replanning module, the new version includes an updated Plan Explorer, which now works together with our latest methods for automated treatment planning that is machine learning and ECHO. In the area of machine learning, we have improved performance and added models for several new plan types. ECHO is an algorithm developed by Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, and it has now been integrated into RayStation. Both of these methods simplify the workflow for creating individually tailored treatment plans and reduce the time required compared to manual planning. The planning results are also more consistent and reproducible, which supports more standardized care for patients. The new version of RayStation also includes extended support for treatment planning with the Leo Cancer Care upright patient positioning system. Right. So, now let's take a closer look at the financial. So please Nina, go ahead.

Thank you, Johan. The first quarter in 2025 was really an overall strong quarter. Net sets increased with 29% from SEK 257 million last year to SEK 332 million in 2025. Adjusted for currency effects, the growth was 26% since we had a stronger average Swedish krona in the first quarter last year. The sale of licenses amounted to SEK 165 million, corresponding to a growth of 39% and the support revenue amounted to SEK 125 million, which is an increase of 17% compared to last year. Order intake in the first quarter was strong and increased 72% from SEK 239 million to SEK 410 million, and this is including SEK 77 million from the Chinese Heyou order, which Johan also mentioned, is the third largest order ever. The order intake for licenses were up 42% ending at SEK 159 million. And the order intake for support increased 151% to SEK 201 million. The operating expenses for the period amounted to SEK 216 million compared to SEK 193 million in the same quarter last year, which corresponds to a 12% increase. The increase is due to that we have a higher number of employees now than we had one year ago. The high level of net sales brought an operating profit of SEK 75 million and an operating margin of 23% and that is 5 percentage points higher than last year's 18%. Operating profit last year was SEK 46 million. Cash flow from operations amounted to SEK 147 million in the quarter, compared to SEK 167 million last year. And the decrease compared to last year is due to a strong cash flow in the first quarter last year, and that we paid taxes in January 2025, but that belonged to the net earnings of 2024. The net cash flow for the period was SEK 66 million and cash conversion was 156%. The cash position at the end of the period amounts to SEK 503 million. Moving on looking at the development of EBIT and EBIT margin quarter-by-quarter for the last 2 years. It is visible that quarter 1 is normally one of the weakest quarters, and that the outcome of the first 2025 quarter stands out. The operating margin in the first quarter 2025 is on a steady 23% despite that it has been affected by SEK 20 million in currency losses recognized in the P&L. The rolling 12 development graph displays RaySearch last 2 years' of steady growth, in total 46% and with a CAGR of 29% and with an increasing operating margin over the quarters. Net sales for the last 12 month period now amounts to almost SEK 1.3 billion, and EBIT for the same period amounts to SEK 290 million, which means an operating margin of 23%. Moving on to the next slide, this is the RaySearch growth journey from 2008 also showing the increased robustness in the business from a larger portion of recurring support revenue during the last years. The backlog end of March amounted to SEK 1.734 billion of which SEK 546 million is expected to generate net sales in the next coming 12 month period. Book-to-bill in the quarter was above 1.2 and the decrease in the backlog compared to December 2024 is in its total related to currency revaluation. And here it is important to bear in mind that our backlog stretches over several years, and that the value will bounce back when and if the Swedish krona becomes weaker again. That was all from me, moving back to you Johan.

To summarize, I'm very happy with the strong start of 2025. This quarter is actually the first time we achieved record sales in the first quarter. Historically, this typically occurred in the last quarter of the year. Since 2023, we are focused on improving our operating margin. And now with an operating margin of 23% for the quarter and 22% for the full year 2024, I feel confident that we are on the right track and we'll achieve our goal of maintaining a minimum -- or achieving a minimum operating margin of 25% by 2026. So with yet another sales record and continuously growing support revenue, I'm looking forward to an exciting year with continued growth. Thank you.

Thank you, Johan and Nina.

We will now open up the floor for questions. [Operator Instructions] The first person with the question is Kristofer Liljeberg.

This is Kristofer from Carnegie. I have 4 questions. First, I just wanted to comment on this very strong license sales in the quarter for being a Q1. And is it possible to quantify the amount of what you could define maybe as large order in the quarter versus more underlying or smaller consistent type of sales for license? That's the first one.

Kristofer why don't we answer question-by-question. Yes. Fundamentally, we published a couple of -- especially Heyou order that was big and Odense. But in general, it was more a large number of medium-sized orders and smaller-sized orders, except for those big ones. So more a broader sale of several orders.

And should we see this as a natural quarterly variations? Or do you think this large number of smaller orders is more consistent as you have grown the install base, launched new products, et cetera?

Yes, I think it's a pattern that we've seen for a couple of years now. But one should also remember that, we also get these larger orders on a regular basis. So they should also be sort of normal. But we are much less -- I mean, they constitute a smaller part of the whole currently than they did, if you go back several years, then the entire quarter could depend on a single large order. Now, I think, we have steered away from that actually.

And that actually leads me into my second question, which is larger orders. Is it possible to say anything about the timing of the rest of the sales value for the Chinese orders? And if you could maybe also update on the timing of the large future revenues we will have from the photon therapy deal in Spain.

Right. So out of the SEK 77 million for the license revenue or license order from Heyou, I think most of that will be recognized no later than next year. So some of it later this year and some, but all will be recognized before the end of next year. Regarding Ortega, which is the proton centers in Spain that you referred to, we see some revenue recognition is expected for the first center towards the end of 2025. And then it will spread out on another 2 to 3 years after that. And then -- so let's say, 3 years from now or 3 years plus from now, all of the Ortega revenues will have been recognized.

And I can add there to the Heyou order that the SEK 77 million also include supports for several years ahead. So the main -- the license sales, as Johan said, be recorded in -- as latest in the next year, but the support revenue will come after that.

And how much license revenues do you still have to book from the Chinese one?

I don't have that number right here at the moment.

No, me neither.

Then my third question relates to orders and the support -- support and service order book in the quarter seems very large. If you could comment on that. I think even if you -- if I adjust for those -- the large orders -- you have press release in the quarter, I'm a bit surprised about that figure.

Okay. It's -- as we always state, and we also say when we have a lower order intake, is that this fluctuates. There is a clear fluctuation between quarters. And this combination of some -- of all of those medium -- first of all, it relates also to strong sales. As we say, a lot of orders are converted -- most of the orders, license orders are converted into revenue instantly. So that's one part. If you have a high net sales, then you also have the same -- those have also been part of the order intake. And then it comes to the support contracts, they can -- so when we sign support contracts, they contribute to the order intake. And they can be signed -- there can be some variation when -- they can -- a lot of them can happen to be in a certain quarter. There is no -- but then the revenue recognition from this support contract is very well defined. But when they contribute to an order intake depends on when they actually come into place. And that can happen -- that can be sort of congested or more dense for a certain quarter than other quarters. So it's a combination of these effects.

So the service contract can be signed in a separate quarter from when you get a license still.

Yes. When they are renewed. So maybe a lot of contracts expired in -- now in Q1. That can happen because they are different. Yes, when you get the first order for the systems, the licenses and so on, you sign a support contract. The length of that support contract varies between customers. It can be 4, 5, 6, it can be 10 years. There is a spectrum.

If I could just ask one more question that would helpful. Selling costs, usually, they are down in the first quarter versus the fourth quarter, which was not the case this time. I wonder, is there a correlation in a way between a high sales and selling costs that you book variable pay related to that?

No, no, it's not. The selling costs are mainly driven by -- of course, the underlying selling costs are driven by the amount of people in the sales organization, but also the amount of travel and the participation -- and the larger trade shows have a big effect.

And there haven't been any larger trade shows in the first quarter, right?

Correct.

Moving over to Mattias Vadsten.

I also have 4 questions to start the list. In terms of online adaptive radiotherapy technology, if you could just talk a little bit or help us understand how important this really is to drive sort of customer uptake of both RayStation and RayCare really as well. And maybe a few words on how competition stack up here in your view and prospects.

Okay. Yes, that's a great question. Online adaptive, I would say, is one of the major driving forces currently. One could argue, one could discuss whether that's warranted or not because there are alternative ways of managing these uncertainties. You can do -- you haven't -- I mean, if you do offline adaptive together with robust optimization, it's also a very strong alternative. But it doesn't matter this is what the customers want currently, and there's a big hype around online adaptive. And of course, we support that very strongly with our software. We sort of had a breakthrough, I would say, just a couple of weeks ago when we did our first, well, proof-of-concept online adaptation in a bunker with a Varian TrueBeam. So that we have a RayStation plan and through RayCare it goes -- it communicates with the TrueBeam, and we could run the entire workflow for online adaptive with the TrueBeam. That opens up big possibilities that you can have this very common machine that is -- doesn't have any special sort of adaptive features, but it's fully capable of delivering state-of-the-art online adaptive. I think we clearly have the strongest offering in the market when it comes to software support for adaptive, both offline and online.

Sounds very encouraging. Then if you could elaborate a little bit on the recent steps taken maybe in liver ablation and the sort of time line ahead in terms of the regulatory considerations there. Perhaps also cover just quickly chemotherapy as well, although I'm assuming this is more of a 2026 thing, but that's the second one.

Okay. Yes, we can start with chemo, that's really a 2026 thing. As you may know, one component of our future offering will be the quality control device, DrugLog and that is available for sale now. And we do sell it a little bit, and we sell consumables together with that device. But we really see that as an important component of our software -- an important complement to our software offering that will come out in 2026 in the form of treatment planning support for chemo in RayStation workflow management and scheduling, et cetera, in RayCare for chemo. So yes, so that's about chemo. And then you asked about liver ablation. So that was released in this version of the RayStation that we released last week, version 2025. We cannot know exactly the regulatory process for the U.S. because it's a new application. But we expect it to be -- have FDA clearance sometime during the fall, and then we can sell it in the U.S. market. But it will be available earlier for the European market. So that's going to happen very soon. I mean, during the summer, it should be available for the European market. But it's hard to make any predictions on where this goes. I think it's an extremely powerful new technology for delivering liver ablation more precisely and accounting for the big deformations that happen in the liver. So long-term, this should be a very nice -- interesting product.

Then it is about a comment in the report where you say 3 larger contracts accounted for revenue of SEK 54 million in licenses. So just quickly, which ones are those?

There is Heyou, Odense and the third one, I'm not sure which one it is. Just a moment.

Southampton --

Southampton in U.K.

-- General Hospital in U.K.

My last one. Given the margin here in the quarter, I guess, 29% excluding the revaluation of -- or the FX impact in the quarter. So just I think we need to ask the question on how you want to talk about the margin target here for next year and how we should think about the margin trajectory? That's the last one.

So, no, we haven't changed the long-term. Well, it's not so long-term now anymore. But in 2026 we'll have at least 25% EBIT margin. That hasn't been changed. So with that said, we feel very comfortable that we can achieve that. I think -- yes, one should not extrapolate now 29% and then it just goes up from there every quarter. But I still think it's interesting because it shows the leverage of our business model that when sales are strong, we can have very large margins. That's -- they are really within reach. I think that this quarter illustrates that. If you keep costs under control and we sell well, then there is -- we have very good margin opportunities.

Moving over to Oscar Bergman.

I've got a few questions that I wouldn't say necessarily it's about the quarter, but more on a general level. So I'll just ask them one by one. And first up, I'm wondering what challenges and obstacles there might be at RT centers when it comes to adaptive planning, perhaps in getting a clearance from the patient's oncologist before making changes to the treatment itself, or if there are any other, specifically in the workflow, challenges to hold back adoption of this?

Okay. That's a good question. I think one shouldn't overestimate the need for an oncologist present. If we make the adjustments small enough, then we are only ensuring that we stay on target. So in a sense, you can think of it like this. That the radiation oncologist has approved a certain plan, a certain dose distribution that should be delivered or that is sort of prescribed to the patient. And what we're doing in both offline and online adaptive is that we are ensuring that that dose distribution will be delivered. So it's really -- I mean, and maybe in the short term -- and if you make big changes to the treatment, it could be worth that the oncologists should have a say. But if we look at it this way that we only stay on track, we're only delivering what has already been approved, then I think -- any rate, this will go away over time. I'm pretty sure about that. We've seen similar developments when intensity-modulated radiotherapy came about early 2000. And there was a lot of quality assurance being done every day, for every field, for every patient. But as people realized that the systems are robust, they deliver the same beams more or less every -- or to a very high degree, every fraction, the dose calculation is very accurate for the smaller fields that you have in IMRT, people got accustomed to that. And then after some time, you don't need to quality assure every day for IMRT. I think we'll see similar development for adaptive when it becomes more common in the clinic. You also asked about the other obstacles like -- what were the obstacles that you referred to?

In the workflow.

In the workflow. And that's -- I think it's really been the lack of good tools, good software tools for online that why it hasn't been fully implemented yet. So I think the combination of this very high volume -- I got new numbers now. I heard new numbers for how many TrueBeams are out there, and it's close to 7,000. My current estimate and that was my own estimate, 4,000. That was based on a data point from 2019 that was 3,000, I extrapolated. Right? I found just recently that, that's way too low. So it's close closer than 7,000 TrueBeams out. And to have that many available machines out in the clinics all around the world, combined with the capability of RayStation and RayCare, I think that that's going to be a good trigger for more online adaptive in the clinics. And the fact that you don't need a special machine to deliver, an online adaptive. You can use, just, a machine like TrueBeam to do to do that, that's clear.

And do you have any updates on how many of the top 15 oncology hospitals are using RayCare today? And those who are using it, have they also implemented adaptive treatment to any meaningful extent?

Yes, several have implemented adaptive. And yes, I mean we have -- it's still a few -- very few clinics, but the clinics that run RayCare are very happy. And they are improving efficiency and streamlining the processes with the help of RayCare in the clinic.

And I suspect that it is easier for you to sell RayCare to new facilities that are under construction compared to sort of replacing an OIS at a center that's been around for a long time. Is it a fair assessment?

No, I don't agree with that.

So please elaborate on that one.

No, but it's not a huge difference to -- we have done conversions. We have -- the existence of data is not a problem. That I have -- I think that's what you refer to. That that's what you mean when you say that use the system for long [Audio Gap] Okay? It's not a problem. It's been said -- I've heard that sort of understanding or myth before, but it's not it's not an issue. The issue why we don't have hundreds of RayCare installations yet is that -- is because of the long cycles and a previous lack of interoperability with a high volume machine. But that -- those obstacles are gone.

Okay. But would you say that the advantages with RayStation, for example, is more clear for the customers to understand compared to the advantages of replacing an OIS at the centers?

I don't think so. I think it's less clear with RayCare.

I think, I just have a few more questions before I head back into the queue. I think it's very interesting that you could at least theoretically almost double your licenses at the existing centers. So I'm just wondering what challenges lie here and how are you working to expanding the licenses at current customer sites?

Yes. And I would like to add to that statement that, okay, we can sort of approximately double the RayStation licenses. But the add-on modules, which are around 20, but let's say that 13 are for everyone. There are some special licenses for carbon ion facilities and so on. It's not for everyone. But there is still a large number of viable options, plus 10 anyway, to be conservative. And those have even larger potential than doubling. They are sold to -- they have quite a low penetration so far. So we're looking at different ways to -- we haven't really pushed that yet. We have realized this the need to incentivize or make a stronger argument towards our install base to add more technology that they have available in the current systems if they just unlock the licenses. And we have different approaches to do that. One that we'll try in the near future is to -- we've probably started some well-defined markets that we open up for all our customers, all the functionality of RayStation for a defined time, even clinically. So they can use all of the power of RayStation for some number of months to really try it out and see what impact it can have on their efficiency and the quality of the treatments, et cetera. And then they have at some stage, of course, to be turned off, and we can have a discussion whether they want to add more licenses. But I think in general, it's, to a large extent, untapped potential with the -- our current installed base of more than 1,100 clinics that really haven't -- they don't utilize the full power of RayStation yet.

I'm also wondering about the Chinese market. And specifically, if you could give some background to the Chinese competition and if you see anything hinting towards that customers in China are preferring Chinese software for some reason?

Okay. The Chinese market is challenging for several reasons. I think the first one is the regulatory process. So the Chinese authorities can make it sort of arbitrarily hard for us to get clearance for new versions of our products. So that's one challenge, and we're working on that. We get around it, but it takes -- usually, it takes a long time. It can take 18 months for a new version of RayStation or RayCare to get approved. So that's one aspect. Then I don't think Chinese customers, the clinics don't prefer [Audio Gap] it's more that the authorities by Chinese regulations that the hospitals are obliged to buy a certain percentage of their products from Chinese companies. So that's, of course, something that we have to work on as well. And there are methods to go around that, you can collaborate with Chinese companies and you can take other measures. But the Chinese market is for sure tricky. But we do have an install base of more than 100 clinics. So it's possible to do business there. And Heyou that we just published, that we just talked about, is our third largest order. So for sure we can do business there. It's just different. It's -- there are different kind of challenges in China than in other markets.

I just have a final question, and that's on price increases. What have they been historically? And what do you expect for the coming years, if you have anything communicated?

Well, what we talk about publicly is that we update our price lists quarterly. They are based on the Swedish currency. And we factor in inflation into that price and then the prices for the other markets are converted according to the exchange rate at that time. So this is quite a new thing that we update our price list so often.

Moving over to [ Johan Lenor ], and then we have some questions in the chat.

Just one general question for me. Obviously, the hardware manufacturers are always launching new products. And obviously, with their own software packages, they can ensure that the complete functionality of those products is ready from the get-go. Can you help me understand whether RaySearch faces a time lag in enabling all of those functionalities? Or am I understanding that the wrong way?

No, it can happen for some specific functions. I mean, we have some examples like the MR-Linac from Elekta Unity. We can -- we do plan for that machine. But without -- I mean, it's very hard for a customer -- for a clinic to use that functionality now without the sort of approval or the collaboration of Elekta. So that can happen. But in general, it's not an issue. And an important aspect of that, I should add, is that this will only hold for these 2 manufacturers, Elekta and Varian because all the others are our partners. So we work together with Panacea, SHINVA, BEBIG, Leo Cancer Care, Hitachi, the list goes on. And all of these new machines are -- we plan -- I mean we work constantly on integrating the functionality between the different systems.

So not a significant disadvantage in your opinion?

No.

So moving over to the chat section. We got a question from you, Joakim, asking: Can you give us some color on the sales activities with RayCare? And since you now can connect with Varian and TrueBeam, is it opening up much larger sales activities? And do you expect some larger sales of RayCare later during this year? And also, what are your OUSP to get large clinics exchange to RayCare? Maybe we can take them one by one.

No, I see them. I can go ahead. Yes. I mean there are lots of discussions going on with the various customers that have Varian TrueBeam currently. Is this opening up much larger sales. I mean it's -- the answer is yes. We will get some nice RayCare orders later this year. I'm confident, I'm convinced about that. Regarding the OUSP, so for a large clinic RayCare is very suitable. A large clinic usually have a mixture of machine vendors, which is perfectly a perfect place for RayCare to be. The large clinic needs to optimize its activities. We work heavily on that with RayCare to optimize the use of resources. The amount of automation you can achieve with RayCare together with RayStation stands out, and that's an extremely useful feature. If you run a large operation that can really benefit the large clinics. So I could go on. I don't think maybe this is the right place to describe all the advantages of RayCare, but there are. It's really the next-generation oncology information system and a lot of things come with that.

Thank you, Johan. And then a question. I think you mentioned the answer before. But how many RayCare licenses have been sold and how many of them are recognized as revenue?

Okay. We have sold -- RayCare licenses are not relevant here. We have sold to 28 clinics RayCare. It's not exactly the same model as for RayStation, because here, the price is proportional to the patient volume, whereas for RayStation its proportional to the number of users. So licenses are not exactly relevant here, but it's 28 facilities right now. And we, of course, hope that will be many more in the near future. I don't know exactly how many, but it's -- that have been recognized as revenue, but it's not -- I shouldn't guess. But it's not all of them for sure. It's a sort of fraction, but I don't know exactly at the moment.

Well, it's still a minor part of our total revenue.

Yes.

And we can take the last chat from [ Mats ] before we go back to -- and [ Carlos ]. So what proportion of licensing revenue during the quarter comes from customer replacing Philips?

I don't have those numbers yet, but it's a quite high number actually. I can guess on that too, but I think it's could be 70%. But that's -- that's a guess. But we do convert a lot of Pinnacle clinics at the moment, but we also convert other clinics. But it's -- given the time pressure now, Pinnacle will be end of life, end of 2026. So we are approaching that lift, so to say. So quite a lot. Maybe 70% is the guess. I don't have the exact number here when we sit here.

Thank you. So moving over to the verbally questioner here. We have [ Carlos Moreno ].

I just wanted to ask about your ability to price. I read that Elekta is refreshing, putting more emphasis on its software and it's pushed through some big price rises. And I was also just thinking about the whole dollar thing. If you get a big move in the currency, to what extent are you confident enough that you can effect move price around to medium term, at least offset that? What pricing kind of levers do you think you've got on a 3-year view?

Okay. Thank you. We can do that to a quite high extent by just raising the prices. But then it -- it also depends -- then we have a more balanced price list. But it also relates to the situation, the actual situation when we are fighting for a customer, fighting for a deal with heavy competition from, let's say, Varian. Then there is price pressure for sure. So then the price list sort of goes out the door and you have to provide a discount that makes you win that order. It's very important for us to win the orders because the customers stay basically forever. And when the customer does that, they come back and buy more. And then when they come back and buy more, which they do, 50% of our license sales go back to the install base. So when they do that, we are not under the same price pressure and then this -- the price list becomes more relevant again. But then there are situations where we don't have that extreme competition and then it's a more normal situation. It depends on the sales situation as well. So it's a quite complex situation. But of course, we try to charge a fair amount. And we have the richest system out there in terms of functionality and the highest quality software. So it should have a premium price as well.

Moving over to [ Idun Sundberg ].

Congratulations on this report, by the way. It was magnificent to see. I have one broad question in terms of the tariffs, and I -- maybe you don't see an effect of it now. Will you potentially see an effect of it later? I mean, you possibly have dialogues with customers, and potential customers in terms of like hesitations maybe to invest? Or would these tariffs actually have an impact on sales you think? Because I also know that there are some protocols that accept certain medical devices and services. So please, I'm not looking for like a specific number or so or percentage, but more like your outlook on this and your thoughts and opinion on this.

Unfortunately, the answer will be quite vague. What we know so far is that software -- I mean, to this extent, we don't have any tariffs yet, and we don't expect any tariffs in the near future. Things can change, who knows what -- but the current understanding is that the software is -- will not be -- you say tariffed, will not be subject to tariffs. We haven't seen -- in discussions with customers, we haven't yet seen any hesitance to make new investments. It hasn't been -- it hasn't been obvious, hasn't been brought up so far in our ongoing discussions with several customers. So -- and I think the -- it's like the indirect effect of the currency fluctuations that affect us -- have affected us so far, and will probably affect us going forward. It's hard to say. But we don't know very much about the tariffs, how they will affect us going forward. There is a small effect on some of our customers want us to provide the computer infrastructure to run our systems. They can choose to buy themselves, but they can also choose us to package that. And then our -- the computers that we buy from, for example, Dell, they will be affected by tariffs for sure. But I think it helps to be in a pure -- almost a pure software situation here that we can sort of escape the -- most of the effects of tariffs. So Nina, do you have anything to add?

No, I totally agree to what you say.

Yes. I'm sorry about the vague answer, but that's all we know at the moment.

Congratulations again.

The same question has been asked by [ Anna ] and then Carlos asked in the chat as well, which we already --

Yes, we addressed that.

Yes, exactly. So are there any other questions? Okay. So I think that was it. Thank you all for your participation. This concludes today's session, and we look forward to continuing the dialogue with you, if not before, then at the presentation of the Interim Report for the Half Year Report of 2025 on the 8th of August. Lastly, I'd like to remind you that you can find this presentation through the same link as you used for this meeting and on RaySearch website. Thank you very much, and have a wonderful day.

Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Thank you.