RFG Holdings Limited (RFG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us for this presentation of our interim results. As usual, I'll kick off and then hand over to Tiaan for the financials. Starting with an overall review of our first half. The first half results in our opinion represent a resilient performance in the COVID-19 environment. Operating profit was up by 14.9% and the adjusted operating profit margin was expanded from 5.5% to 7.6%. Lockdown restrictions adversely impacted sales and profitability on fruit juice and pies, 2 of our largest product categories. The centralization of the pies and pastries business has been successfully completed. International volumes were significantly lower due to shipping and logistical challenges, particularly in the month of March. And we benefited from foreign exchange gains of ZAR 19.6 million in the half. And strong cash generation brought about reduced debt levels. Over to you, Tiaan.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Group turnover for the period was 3.4% lower than the prior period at ZAR 2.8 billion. The regional turnover was 1.7% down, and international turnover, 12.6% down on the prior period. Net foreign exchange gains of ZAR 19.6 million in the current period versus net losses of ZAR 47.6 million in the prior period, contributed to a improvement in the net operating profit for the period. The restructuring of the KwaZulu-Natal pie business gave rise to once-off retrenchment and closure costs of ZAR 14.9 million as well as an impairment of the [ present ] end properties amounting to ZAR 16.8 million for a [ code ] loss ZAR 31.7 million once-off cost in the current period. Excluding these one-off costs and the foreign exchange gains and losses in the relevant years, the other operating costs declined by 2.7%. The above gave rise to a net operating profit of ZAR 184.6 million, which represents an increase of 14.9% on the prior year. The operating margin improved by 100 basis points from 5.5% in the prior period to 6.5%. And adjusted for the one-off cost, it improved from 5.5% in the prior period to 7.6%, that is at the group level. On the same basis, the regional operating margin expanded from 8.3% to the current 8.9%. The international segment recovered to a break even position in the current period compared to a loss of ZAR 44 million in 2020. The EBITDA increased by 12.1%, and the EBITDA margin expanded by 150 basis points to 10.8%. Net interest payments for the period reduced by ZAR 18.8 million compared to the previous period. And cash generated increased by 29.1% to ZAR 178 million in the current period. Net debt-to-equity ratio mentioned that March -- in March improved from 55.0% to 47.5%. That is at a peak in our business given the seasonality of, in particular, the international business. That's why these numbers are higher than what we had at year-end. So it's not a like-for-like comparison, but still a good indication of reduction in debt. Diluted headline earnings per share increased by 46.3% to ZAR 0.455. On the income statement, just a few things to note is that direct manufacturing costs, manufacturing operating costs and selling and distribution costs also show a reduction in line with the reduction in turnover. Other operating costs here still include the once-off cost in 2021. Profit after tax amounts to ZAR 106 million versus ZAR 78 million in the prior period, and that gives rise to that ZAR 0.455 per share diluted headline earnings versus ZAR 0.311 per share in the prior year. There was no significant change in the weighted average number of shares in issue. The only change came through the shared plan options. Group turnover increased by compound [ annual growth ] rate of 7.2% since the 2017 year. And in the current period, volumes declined by 10.4%, and that was partially compensated for by a 6.9% combination of inflation and sales mix, where there is -- and a very small contribution by Forex in the period. That's a year-on-year movement. The Regional Long Life [ stock ] contributes, by far, the most to group revenue. For this period, it amounts to 55%. Fresh is consistent at 31%, while in the current period, international declined to 14%. The operating profit of ZAR 184 million is the second highest since 2017. And the margin of 6.5% is also in line with the margin last achieved in 2018. The contribution by the various currencies to international revenue, not much has changed. U.S. dollar remained the biggest at 62% followed by British pound at 14% and euros at 10%. As mentioned before, we don't take any or we don't enter into any FECs anymore because a natural hedge, which has increased what's pricing of fruit packaging through juice packaging and cans being linked to currency movements, and that amounts to a natural hedge of 80% of projected foreign sales. So going forward, the group [ won't have ] any exposure to revaluations of FECs. In the bottom right-hand corner, the average exchange rates that materialized during current period on the U.S. dollar, it actually -- the rand actually strengthened by 2%, while against the British pound and euro, it depreciated by 4.4% and 7.4%, respectively. On the balance sheet, just to point out, the right-of-use assets show a significant increase year-on-year, but that's the increase happened before the previous year-end with a lease for a significant assets that was renewed in the second half of last year. On the noncurrent assets, the big change there is in the reduction in the deferred tax assets of ZAR 10 million. Inventory, a significant increase year-on-year 12.8%, and is mainly to do with slower export shipments and a bigger fruit crop that was produced in [ October ] this last season. Accounts receivables showing a decline mainly trade-related, and then other current assets increase, and it's mainly biological assets that increased by ZAR 13 million and FEC asset by [ ZAR 4 million ]. On the capital and liability side, obviously, [ long ] lease liabilities increased in line with the increase in right-of-use assets. And the only other one to mention is other current liabilities, a significant reduction, last year's number included ZAR 55 million FEC liability, and that's partially offset by an increase in tax provision of ZAR 6 million and employee benefits liability of ZAR 13 million. In terms of working capital, net working capital to turnover, 55% versus 53.7% last year. Again, it's measured on the balance sheet in March, which is when we had the most working capital in the business. So at year-end, historically, we were around 24% on this, and we're targeting to get back to that. Net working capital days, 2 day increase. And the main driver is inventory for the reasons mentioned, and that was partially offset by creditors and debtors, to a lesser extent. Cash management business generated ZAR 161 million of cash profits, net working capital is reduced by ZAR 17 million year-on-year. And then interest and tax payments show a significant increase year-on-year despite lower interest payments. And that's, of course, we paid a lot more tax in the current period than the previous one. Dividend payment of ZAR 75 million. Loans we paid ZAR 73 million. Lease liability payments of ZAR 32 million. And CapEx, ZAR 138 million. And the shortfall of ZAR 232 million to fund the above was funded via the bank overdrafts. In terms of the bank term debt profile at the end of March, banded, no change to what we reported at year-end. Of course, we didn't take any new term debt in the period [ at that view ]. In terms of lease debt profile, basically the same, but for a few new leases that came into play, but mainly the same as at year-end. In terms of total debt, that's the 2 combined added together, we see that of the debt on the balance sheet currently, will be left with ZAR 29 million by the end of 2025 financial year. That's it from me. Thank you, Bruce.

Thanks, Tiaan. Our segmental split was affected by a short-term reduction over the full year. On the regional trading performance, revenue was down for the segment by 1.7%, driven mainly by decline in Fresh of 3.6%. The breakdown of this top line movement is volumes down by 8.2% and price increases of 6.6%. More on the detail of volume on the next slide. The operating margin at face value is flat, but excluding the once-off in impairment costs as a result of the closure or consolidation of the Natal pie operations of ZAR 31.7 million, this expanded to 8.9%. The decline in volumes was mainly as a result of the COVID-19 second wave restrictions. Fruit juice sales were down significantly on the restrictions on entertainment and the delay, particularly the delay in the school year. And pies and bakery were also badly affected over that period. The base effect of a particularly strong March 2020 ahead of the lockdown also had a big impact. March '21 sales, we were down on year-on-year for March by 13.4%. We've had good continued growth in dry foods, supported by the relaunch of our Hinds Spice range. The KZN pie operations have been integrated into the Gauteng bakery and pie facilities, and we are now well positioned for growth in this key category. Sales into the rest of Africa increased by 11.1%, driven mainly by dry foods and canned meat. On market shares in the [ main positive ], 2 categories where we saw declines, jams, as a result of some particularly aggressive pricing activity from our main competitor and long-life fruit juices, driven by declines in our own brand, more so than private label. And we have mentioned before, the overreliance that we have had within our Rhodes juice range on the single-serve packs, the 200 mls. And this portion of the juice category was severely hit over the worst of the COVID lockdown and particularly as a result of the closure of schools and the late start of the school year in 2021. Then on to more specifics on our brand shares. Jams, as I mentioned, we have lost some ground. On canned pineapple and meat, the movement there is really from our brand to private label. So we've not lost overall market share in either of those categories. The rest of them show increases. On fruit juice, this, as I mentioned, here, we can see the big declines driven entirely by the overall decline in the single-serve portion of the juice category. We have -- we are looking to address that, and we have already started growing our share of the 1-liter and 2-liter portion of the market. And we are seeing a very strong recovery in the 200 ml portion now that school life has normalized. And I think we'll see net gains as a result of the increase in share in the [ lunch ] and pack sizes. We hold our own on Baby Foods. And right at the bottom there, we have successfully relaunched our Hinds brand. We've always had a small presence in retail. Very skewed towards particular products, for example, ginger , and the relaunch has been very successful. We are at end of March, we have already achieved a 4% market share. And we're very confident that we will continue to grow our share in this very important category for us. On to the International segment. This segment saw a decline in revenue of 12.6% and a breakeven situation with regards to profitability versus the loss last year due to the Forex loss of ZAR 47.6 million in 2020. The breakdown in turnover is a volume decline, huge decline of 20% and a price/mix gain of 7.5%. The price gain is as a result of our normalized shipping into China, which we missed out on this time last year. And then not much of an impact on Forex -- from Forex. There was, however, an exchange gain of ZAR 19.6 million compared to the losses that we faced last year. So volumes have been negatively impacted by logistical challenges and particularly congestion at the Cape Town port. We've enjoyed strong demand for all of our products from all of our international markets. The logistical challenges arise from a shortage of shipping containers and a severe shortage of space on container vessels. And then this is aggravated by inefficiencies in the port, very slow turnaround times and a lot of vessels because of the shortage of space are just omitting Cape Town. So we find that we have a certain number of shipments planned for the month, it happened in particularly in March. And then we lose out on the last 10 days of the month of planned shipments. Because either we can't get space or the vessels omit Cape Town. We're shipping an average of 300 containers a month through Cape Town, and that peaks at over 500 containers. So we are fairly substantial shipments through the port. And so this has been challenging, but we're working really hard on that, placing an enormous amount of pressure on our own logistics systems looking to spread shipments as evenly as possible, speaking to customers to call early. So when we have slack periods, we ship nonetheless and really just being the squeaky wheel in the system to ensure that we get the containers and the space on ships. We've had very good volumes through our deciduous operation this season across all fruit types. And particularly strong growth in the export of our fruit snacks in plastic cups to the U.S. So we do expect the recovery in volumes in H2 despite the logistical challenges through the initiatives that I have just mentioned. On new products, we have just launched a new range of Squish in a 200 ml pack size versus the current 100 ml, 110 ml offer that we have. This -- it allows us to compete more extensively with the conventional jar packaging, which offers different size packs for different aged babies and children. And this has been very positively taken up in the trade. We've extended our -- into our Bull Brand range of meals, leveraging off the strength of that brand and updated our Pakco curry powder packaging. We've added range extensions to the Hinds spice range and expect this to continue as we gain improved distribution and a number of new pie launches, like Hawaiian pie and 2 breakfast variants looking to increase the eating occasion of this particular product. We continue to innovate for our private label customers with a juice and water splash range for kids and babies and a complete new private label range of juices for an important retail customer and then innovation in the dairy -- in our dairy category. With regard to CapEx, we have planned CapEx of ZAR 250 million for the full year, expenditure of ZAR 138 million in the first half. This has included the installation of an additional 200 ml fruit juice line at the Wellington plant to accommodate the new private label take on. And an upgrade of the Gauteng bakery facility to accommodate some of the KZN high volumes, the balance of which have gone into the Aeroton facility. And we've commenced the building of a new warehouse at our fruit juice facility in the second half. We're cautiously optimistic on our outlook, although a potential COVID-19 third wave does pose a risk to sales and profitability, particularly if accompanied by stringent lockdown regulations. But we'll focus on growing our brand shares, particularly in our new categories and an overriding imperative is to expand our operating margin towards the 10% target. We've seen a steady recovery of fruit juice and pies into H2. We'll look to maintain our positive momentum on prime foods and increase our brand shares in those categories and maintain our strong sales growth into the rest of Africa. We will realize savings of ZAR 13 million from the restructuring of the pie business. And the sale of those properties is expected to generate ZAR 25 million in cash in the second half. However, the international performance will be negatively impacted if the rand remains at the current strong levels. We had an average U.S. dollar exchange rate of ZAR 17.33 in H2 2020, and we're sitting at around about ZAR 14 right now to the dollar. This current currency strength will be partially offset by the increased natural hedge in the business. Strong customer demand across all international markets and the good volumes packed during the fruit season enable us to recover volumes in the second half, despite the ongoing congestion. And we'll continue to evaluate strategic acquisition opportunities aligned to the group's core product categories. Thank you very much. We open to questions.

Bruce, we've got a couple of questions to start with from Shaun Chauke from HSBC. First one is you spoke about the natural hedge covering approximately 80% of projected foreign sales. Can you please explain the impact further on packaging costs being linked directly to FX? What will the strategy going forward be to mitigate the volatility in this?

Yes. So it's -- like I said, it's linked to can or can pricing is linked to U.S. dollar movements and to fruit juice packaging to euro movements. It is affected the hedge moves often moves contracyclical to the foreign proceeds. So there is a bit of a mismatch, but over a period of time, it amounts to -- overall hedge amounts to 80%. So what it means is that if in the current situation, we see -- what we lose on the international side, at least a portion of that we should come through in the regional Long Life side and Fresh to an extent in improved margins. So that's how the offset will work. Lower international margins, but hopefully, better regional margins. For now, that's the pricing mechanism that we've agreed with the relevant suppliers. And we prefer it that way, so from -- as far as we concerned, we would like to continue with this into the future. At the moment, there's no indication that the suppliers will want to change it. The fruit juice packaging supplier has had this model in place for quite a number of years now. The major can supplier switched to that just late last year. So -- but we would want to keep that natural hedge. There's obviously other things that comes into play. These 2 were the big changes that happened in the year. Freight, sea freight, our [ ceased ] commissions and imports of certain raw materials were always paid in our currency, which gave us an hedge lift, but which was much smaller. I think that -- and there's also the price that we pay to farmers for fruit that's linked to our net pricing in rand, which obviously takes into account currency movements, which was there, but that amounted to something like 30%, 40% in the past. So -- and that's why we had to take up FECs to get to the 60% total hedge, which we spoke of in the past. So now the natural hedge is exceeding that at 80%. And we're not -- the 20% that remains, we will leave open because volumes fluctuate. So we don't believe it's a good practice to have a 80% by 100 -- more than 80% hedge [ around there ].

And just another consequence of that natural hedge having increased and removing the necessity for FECs is that we're not then exposed at period ends to a -- if you see revaluation adjustment, which given the recent volatility of the rand, has been quite substantial over the last few periods.

Bruce, and we've got some follow-up questions from Shaun on market share. Can you explain the market share loss in jam? Is it a function of pricing from peers or overall demand declining?

No. The category actually performed quite strongly over the COVID period, along with a lot of canned products. It is a share decline as opposed to a category decline, and it was based very much on some very aggressive pricing from our main competitor in that category. We held our own on pricing and lost a bit of share.

And then another market share question. The gains that you've seen in canned meats and meals, is it a function of seeing less Texas on the shelves?

Probably. It is -- again, that category grew very, very strongly over the pandemic affected period. And Graeme, I think the answer to the question is Texas or assume is Texan, the brand, which is the brand that belongs to the Namibian Meat Corporation. And they stopped canning products. So I think that they also -- they actually entered into a joint venture with Oceana and had -- I think it was a co-branded product Texan/Lucky Star corned meat, so availability for them was a problem. And there was disruption from the Tiger meat operation through their disposal process. So yes, definitely some benefit from the disruption in our 2 competitors.

And then a couple of questions from Paul Steegers from Bank of America. Do you think volume recovery in international in the second half could offset translational impact from the stronger rand at current levels?

No, it won't offset the impact of the rand at current levels. We are confident that we will bring about that recovery simply because we have the product and we have the demand, but it's a challenge to get it out. So it will be a substantial volume gain, but there's -- versus prior year '14 versus '17, 20-odd or whatever that number was, is a big movement. So that will definitely give rise to a negative impact on -- versus prior year.

Bruce, a related question. What do you expect for Forex gains/losses for the full year if the rand stays at current levels?

No. Look, I mean, there's 2 elements to the Forex. And there's the benefit, it's the -- referred to the transactional and then the translational. On the transactional, as I've just said, as one sells and the rand is stronger we realize less rands revenue and profitability. So that will have a negative impact on our second half results versus the comparative period. On the translational side, we've had -- where we've had these big Forex gains and losses. I think we are less exposed to that moment in time revaluation either way because depending on what happens at that time. But because of the reduced level of FECs that we have -- if we have any on our books at the time.

Then a question from [ Samil Serage ] from Standard Bank. Could you please comment on the prevailing strike affecting your supply to Woolworths?

Just on that, we have -- we did put out a media statement yesterday, and that is available on our website under the media tab. So for those that are not aware of that industrial action, we are facing a strike at our Aeroton manufacturing facilities in Johannesburg. The strike commenced Tuesday last week and has continued. We have a new union on that site. They gained majority representation in the November, December last year. And we have literally a handful, 5 nonwage related mutual interest matters in dispute. There is a certificate of unresolved dispute issued by the CCMA. So it is a protected strike. And initially, the strike kind of got out of hand and beginning rules weren't adhered to. So we did impose a reactive lockout, which came into effect on Friday and prevails till now. There's been a huge turnout of casual work seekers at the site. And normally, you find casual work seekers in a strike situation are very apprehensive about turning up and seeking work, and that's not been the case right now. So we have a reactive lockout in place. We did start production again this Monday and have a slow ramp-up with non-striking workers supplemented by casual workers. And very importantly, we are at the CCMA today to reengage on these matters. So we are confident that it will be resolved soon. I don't think that it will necessarily be resolved today at the CCMA. I think it's our first time at the table actually talking about the matter since the commencement of the strike. And we have a pie factory and a ready meals factory there. Ready meals factory is a big producer for Woolworths and we obviously keep them closely informed. And they are fully supportive. We and they are absolutely comfortable with our working conditions that prevail there. They are good and absolutely fully compliant. And we are making -- we are now in production, and we are -- we have been able to shift certain product lines from Gauteng down to the Western Cape to be produced down here.

Then a question from Charles Boles from Titanium Capital. Have you seen any change in strategy from Pioneer since takeover by PepsiCo? Do they have a greater focus on growing market share, which is impacting RFG?

We compete with Pioneer in the juice category. And not really a big change -- been obvious. I think we get a sense that there's some juggling around the brand strategy. You all know that they have at least 3 brands, being Liqui Fruit series and a cheaper offer, a fruit treat. So I think that there'll be some rationalization around that. So also, there's uncertainty with regards to their commitment to producing private label. It's well-known that Pepsic,o, on an international basis, is not at all in favor of packing private label. They're very much a branded organization. And that probably led into our securing a big new private label account. So nothing actually materialized as yet. So -- but a bit of speculation and some shifts based on what we expect to happen. And I must say it's not -- I don't think that's been a factor at all in our loss in share in the juice category. That's been entirely driven by the decline of the 200 ml portion of that category.

Bruce, then a question from Tinashe Kambadza from Afrifocus Securities. Thank you for the presentation. Please provide more insight on the current dynamics between private label and branded products in terms of pricing and volumes, influenced by the ever-changing consumer preferences?

No. I think without a doubt, private label remains very high on the agenda of all of the retailers. In some of our categories, we definitely saw a little bit of a pickup in private label. And as everyone will know, we do produce -- in most of our major categories, we produce our own brand and private label. So some of those categories, there's been a bit of a feed from one to the other. I think as usual, certain categories lend themselves more to private label than other. And so I've often given an example of baby food is not really a category that people are willing to try a retail brand and tend to stick to the branded players, but you get other categories like jam, for example, that has a much higher private label penetration. So I think it's the same dynamics that continue to play, and there's a bit of an ebb and flow between the two. So when there was a lot of promotional activity between the branded players, private label suffered a little bit. And as the branded players have sought to pull back on that and have looked for improved margins, I think private labels benefited a little. So yes, no significant change, but it remains an important part of our business and the categories in which we operate.

And then a follow-up question from Paul Steegers. What type of volume recovery are you currently seeing in pies and juice in April and May?

Yes. Well, we've now got the very weak base of the lockdown period coming into play. On juice, we are certainly back to -- if you look all the way back to 2019 numbers as a kind of more normalized benchmark, we're back to those levels and better. And in fact, we're already recovering into March where we were comparing to a normal base or an elevated base in March. So compared to -- so I would say, juice has normalized almost completely. But compared to this time last year, it showed substantial growth because we got really wet in the early part of the lockdown with a steady I think at worst, we were down 50%, and that steadily improved to about 80% of normal. Highs. Again, we've got the very weak base effect, but we have not normalized. If I compare it to 2019, the category has definitely continues to show a bit of weakness, some of it from the out-of-home. From the out-of-home channel. But otherwise, across all channels, we've got some quite distinct captive customers, but our volumes are not back to the 2019 levels.

Then a question from Vik Sharma from RMB Morgan Stanley. What is the margin impact of lower pie and juice sales? Aren't juice and pie businesses higher than the company's average margin, implying a recovery in their volume will be accretive to overall margin?

Yes, that is correct. Both pies and juice are at the high end of the spectrum, and more so pies. So there is a big benefit in normalization of pie volumes in the second half versus last year.

Then a follow-up question from Charles Boles. Over the long term, the pie category has seen a number of brands struggle. Do you think this is an attractive category in the long term? Does the restructure only relate to internal issues or maybe a broader category issue?

The pie category, we like it very much. It's generally, had seen very strong growth over the last 10, 15 years that we've been in it. We did -- we've had periods of exceptionally strong growth, and we've had periods where there was a bit of slackness at that height of consumerism or when demand and just the economy was doing much better, and there was a proliferation of hot food offers and hot food counters and forecourts, et cetera, and pies did slack in a little bit as people moved to more diverse offers. As things tightened up, then that -- those products kind of fell off the menu and pies went back [ flew ] with a vengeance. We are the second biggest player. So the market is dominated by 2 players, PIEMAN’S from the RCL stable is the market leader. I don't think it's really a branded proposition per se. Certainly, it's a brand story to the trade or to the retailer or forecourt owner, but less so to the consumer. I think the consumer often associates the brand of the pie with the brand of the [ opted ] from which they purchased it so that's less relevant. I think there's been a lot of consolidation in the category over the years. We've played a lead role in that as we've acquired smaller regional players and consolidated them into our national offer. So yes, it remains an attractive category for us. And our KZN venture has been difficult. I have acknowledged in the past that I don't think we did a particularly good job on the integration. We did have conditions imposed upon us by the competition commission that we had to keep the Natal operations open for a period of 2 years. We -- given that condition, we actually undertook and we're committed to making the operation to actually maintaining operations in KZN, but that didn't work and was exacerbated with the reduction in demand over the COVID period, and that really triggered our decision to say, let's go back to plan A and consolidate into Gauteng. So that does make us very efficient to take those increased volumes through existing facilities. So we feel that we are well positioned to push ahead. Certainly, we would like to ultimately become market leader, but it's a huge category in South Africa.

Then a question for Tiaan from Talya Ginsberg from Unthombo Wealth. Can you please elaborate on why working capital went up?

Yes. It's basically, all to do with the international shipping scenario where we're down 20% on volume. We've manufactured the product. Of course, it's a seasonal raw material that we work with, so we carry that stock. If we didn't -- if it wasn't for that, we would have been in line with the prior year. And added to that is the fact that the crop or our output, our production this year was a bit bigger than before. And it's -- we produce against orders and that aggravates the slower shipping situation, but it's mainly down to those 2 elements that the inventory is higher than -- or increased by so much compared to the prior year. There's obviously always an increase from year-end to end March, given the fruits production all takes place in the first half of the year or probably 80% of that, at least by the end of March.

Then a question from [indiscernible] Ahmed from Prescient. Does the adjusted operating margin of 7.6% include the benefit from the Forex gain?

Yes.

Then a question from Katleho Moeketsi from Afrifocus. Given the ongoing challenges with the international segment, do you have an alternative strategy in place should these persist?

We remain committed to the international segment. We had made some slight structural changes in terms of reporting and put in place a divisional managing director of that segment. A really top-notch person who's been very closely involved in our international business for a very long period of time. So we do remain committed to it. We are obviously acutely aware of the volatility that the impact it has had on our overall results. So we are working hard at trying to decrease that volatility and some of the hedging discussions will go some way to do that. But it's an important -- it remains an important part of our business. We've got an excellent customer base. It does seem that there's -- I think we've been through a particularly tough time of late over the last 3 years or so where we've had the Western Cape drought, which then subsequently gave rise to quality -- drought-related quality issues. Then we had COVID, which had a terrible impact on our Asian markets, important Asian markets. So -- and I think there have been some extraordinaries in the last few years and then compounded with what seems like more volatility in the current season, what we normally have. But -- so yes, through the cycle, it's been a good business for us. And so we -- once again, we remain committed to that segment.

Bruce, then 2 questions from Irina Schulenburg from Foord Asset Management. At what point would we see CapEx restraint, i.e., slow down following a few years of high CapEx? What would that look like in terms of the rand value or percentage of sales?

[ Yes, this year, CapEx is higher again. Last year, it was lower for the full year, it was 160-odd, if my memory is not letting me down. And yes, so it's higher this year. And then it's basically all to do with the juice line and warehouse expansion in Wellington. Those 2 projects combined probably make do for a big portion of the increase this year. We -- one of our measurements is obviously looking at CapEx versus depreciation and not this year, but definitely last year, we're well below that. The CapEx is below depreciation. Yes. And as a percentage of turnover, we've said before that in a normal year, maintenance CapEx was a bit of expansion just to unlock some capacity. Some bottlenecks in this should be around 120 ml mark, which translates to -- 120 ml, it's about 2% of turnover. But in the growing business, as we see now with this juice line, it's one for the new private label contract but also we obviously still remain aggressive about organic growth in that category as well. So it was part also to add capacity going forward in general. So the point is in a growing business, there will come more expansion CapEx. But maintenance CapEx, we can talk about ZAR 120 million a year is what we target.

Bruce, then a final question from Irina. You say that canned volumes were ahead of last year. What makes you confident that you can export successfully in H2? Would you need to offer discounts, so the product doesn't go bad?

No, we certainly wouldn't need to offer discounts because the demand is there. The product is sold, it's just getting it out through the port. So that is the bottleneck constraint. Totally, it's not the demand. And as I've said, things have normalized in Asia. So that has a positive effect on pricing. So in terms of confidence to get it through the port, it's just the focus, and we are a substantial shipper. So we do carry some weight through the shipping lines and probably more so than with the port. But just helping us be that squeaky wheel and getting containers and getting space, we've got a very experienced, dedicated team. And I think the overall trick in terms of achieving the volumes is consistency because while we ship an average of 300 containers a month, it can be 600 containers in a month. So just to get an even spread. And our customers are absolutely aware of the global shipping issues. So they are willing to work -- collaborate with us in circa. They don't need product right now, but we've got a bit of a slack period in terms of shipping. So just to make sure that we kind of smooth out and average our volumes right down to per week to make sure we've got the maximum number of containers per vessel, as opposed to what we normally see as a spike during the month where you've got 2 weeks of intense shipping and then a couple of weeks of very slack period. So the smooth run rate is really where we're looking to achieve the breakthrough, but it's nothing to do with demand from customers.

Thanks, Bruce. Tiaan, there are no further questions on the webcast.

Good. Thank you, everybody. Thank you once again for joining us.