Saab AB (publ) (SAABB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Saab's report for the second quarter 2026. My name is Johan Andersson, responsible for Investor Relations, and I will be the moderator here today. With me here in Stockholm, we have our CEO, Micael Johansson; and our CFO, Anna Wijkander. Micael and Anna will present the report, and thereafter, we will start with the Q&A session. And remember that you can both ask your questions over the telephone or you can post the questions in the web interest, and I will read them out here in Stockholm. So with that, a warm welcome, and I'll hand over to you, Micael.

Thank you, Johan. And also from my side, welcome to the second quarter report. Let's just dive into the highlights immediately. As you've seen, this was another strong quarter with lots of momentum on the business side. And what's been defining in the quarter was, of course, the major contracts that we have received on the submarines in Poland and also the Gripen Echo version contract with the Ukraine huge sort of breakthroughs and successes of course. And then we are doing extremely well when it comes to improving our way on the operational execution and that drives gross margin and, of course, profitability on the bottom line. And connected to that, it's all about sort of production ramp-up and increasing our capacity in achieving this. And since we are investing and have done that for quite a few years now in capacity, this is now coming into play. And we also recruit many skillful employees as we speak, roughly on a number of 3,000 net up a year which adds to our capacity to deliver to our customers, and that pleases me really well that we are doing well in that area. We will continue to do that, of course. But on top of that, it's not only about capacity, it's also about future capability. And here, we also deliver more energy into R&D and new capabilities, which we are showing to our customers as we speak. And I think we have increased in the first half year now compared to first half year. Last year, I think we've increased R&D with roughly SEK 700 million, which is a big step. We have a record order backlog SEK 318 billion and very strong prospects for the future growth. And I will come back to how that back looks like in terms of more short-term deliveries and what's sort of ahead of us beyond like 3 years in terms of deliveries. So I need, of course, to spend some minutes on the success stories this quarter. And I think it was a big breakthrough when it comes to the contract with submarines for Poland. They have now contracted us for 3 submarines that will be delivered in the next few years. And of course, this is not only an industrial success. It's also very good for the Baltic Sea, increasing our underwater capability together with Poland from a security perspective of the Baltic Sea. But it will also entail industrial collaboration with Poland. And we will have sort of shipyard capabilities on both sides of the Baltic Sea, which makes lots of sense in terms of security and redundancy going forward. So we're really happy about this. And it shows, of course, that this conventional submarine capability is the state-of-the-art capability and it's a big evidence of that, that we do something really right in this area. Same thing, of course, when it comes to the Gripen fighter, the Gripen Echo fighter, there's been lots of discussions about Gripen for Ukraine. And President Zelensky was here not so long ago in Upsala, discussing this and telling us that now we will go ahead with this, and he talked about up to 150 aircraft. And this is now the first batch actually being contracted by Ukraine 16 Gripen and -- but we haven't booked this yet. It will be booked in the next quarter due to the fact that there were a couple of administrative things connected to receiving money then from EU that Ukraine has to sort of fulfill and then that will be coming into effect that contract shortly. Big success, of course, but this is only the first batch, and we will diligently continue to work with the next pad. On top of that, of course, a couple of really big successes on the GlobalEye and Canada selected the GlobalEye earlier in May, and we are in negotiation with Canada and we'll move ahead as quickly as possible to contract that, of course. We're talking about 6 aircrafts. And then not long ago last week, I think, it was the NATO Summit and the Industrial Day and was a big release that from the NATO side that they have now selected a GlobalEye. And we're talking roughly 10 aircraft to NATO replacing the E3 in Galician as a common capability within NATO supported by 9 countries now and it will be operational, of course, and supported by all the countries when it comes into play in [indiscernible]. Big breakthrough. And I think it shows an evidence of how important it is to be in the alliance as a company. And it's also another evidence of a fantastic capabilities. We, as an industry, we have sort of to be able to provide to NATO and to have Sweden and Saab to be delivering this sort of strategic capability to NATO is a really big thing. So it's build fantastic quarter from big contract, big sort of selection point of view. And it creates a big balance and good balance between our product sort of offering in the market and also the platform offering. So this is 1 of my favorite slides, I must say this year and this quarter. A few words, not going into much detail, but on the -- why this sort of capability, the GlobalEye is so attractive. And we have more in pipeline. I can't talk about details about that. But it's -- first of all, it's a capability that can actually cover the air, the sea and the land simultaneously. Normally, earlier, the airborne early warning capability was about the air surveillance capability. Now this is all domains. And of course, it is also incredibly sophisticated when it comes to digest all the information from all the sensors. The primary sensor on the fuselage, on the roof fuselage is, of course, the 1 that covers sort of the longest distance over 650 kilometers. You don't have to be close to any hostilities. But then there is a passive system as well that's around the aircraft. So everything that is looking at you will be detected as well and gives you a passive quality, which is fantastic. All of the sensor information is fused and managed, of course, and digested by AI capabilities. So the operators in the aircraft and what's linked to the ground or other platform makes sense quickly, and you get a situation awareness picture that which you understand in a very sort of skillful way and you have that quickly. And it is in production. I mean we have these aircraft in operations in UAE, and we have it in production. So we deliver it in -- with short lead times and it adds to a very critical capability to get of course. This is a node in a network. So it will -- you will have access to the information that this platform gathers also from other platforms like ships and fighter aircraft or ground centers or even sort of army sort of type of equipment. So it is a really important sort of capability to have strategic and tactical situation awareness. We are really proud about this. Now back to the numbers. And as you've seen, we had an order intake of slightly more SEK 6 billion to SEK 8 billion this year, of course, dominated by the big contract on the submarines for Poland, but also the underlying order intake is very good. the good organic growth of almost 30%, and that shows how we actually deliver and how our capacity investments come into play continuously to increase our delivery pace in all areas, I would say. And then, of course, we increase our profitability in a very good way, driven, of course, by sales, but also more efficient operations and that improves the gross margin and by that, also the bottom line operating margin. We had a 0 type of cash flow quarter, but the whole year is roughly SEK 1 billion plus compared to the first half year last year, which was minus SEK 1.1 billion. And normally, we do have sort of a second half of the year that is a lot better than the half -- first half year. And I just want to underline, we have not sort of taken any payments yet connected to the submarine contracts in Poland. So we are confident in delivering a good positive cash flow for this year as well. And on track 4 are guiding on 60% cash conversion of period. A few comments on the different business areas from my side. The growth in Aeronautics is connected to good sort of pace and deliveries of Gripen aircraft but also the tactical software capability development adds a lot of revenue to the Aeronautics side of things. And then, of course, I need to mention that was a big event in [indiscernible] Sweden when we rolled out the first 2 seat of the Gripen called Gripen F because that's also contracted by Brazil, which was a very important milestone, of course. And now this will also come into deliveries as we speak in the next quarter. We still have issues when it comes to under absorption when it comes to getting up and running on the pace of delivering T7s from our facility in West Lafayette. We're getting there a very important milestone what's reach in the U.S. now where the milestones sea, which they call it when they actually start contracting Boeing on batches of aircraft. We have been working our batches for a while with contracts from Boeing sold, but now the U.S. Air Force is starting to operate this aircraft. So now the pace needs to increase going forward, but it will take a few quarters more and a couple of years, I would say, before we actually get back to good numbers on this. But eventually, this will be an excellent franchise program over many years. And then, of course, I talked about the Gripen E cranes, so I don't have to go back into that, even though I would like to talk a lot about that this success story. Dynamics then. Very good market demand still. It's a bit lumpy in sort of when the contracts come in, lots of small contracts but also a few big ones in the pipeline. So a few to mention now during this quarter is, of course, the analog support weapon to France and also another 4 that goes down to Lithuania and training vehicle training system to the U.S. Army, which is rancontracts and is good underlying pipeline also for dynamics. Good deliveries, really good growth, 36% quarter-to-quarter. And we also have new products coming into play. We have a new missile for the RBS 70 system. We have a new ammunition type for the cargo that we've launched, and we have [indiscernible] type of product on for a soldier that is really taken effect now in the market. So many good things are happening, and there will be more things that we're investing in this area coming going forward now. So Dynamic is doing well. Also surveillance extremely well, a strong demand, and I need to point out that we have high deliveries of products from surveillance, especially on the sensor side. As an example of 1x is very high demand in the market. So we are manufacturing this on, you could call it speculation, not only on contract and I mean, compared to last year, we have done a lot more deliveries, 100 systems already in the first half year, and we are moving to a pace of more than 300 a year going forward when we talk about the Job 1x. Also, of course, the GlobalEye has a great pipeline and a big interest in the market and now, as I've talked about Canada and NATO have selected that so that negotiations for contracts ongoing. But also here, we work a lot with the counter U.S. portfolio, the counter unmanned aerial system portfolio, which is very important part of our portfolio where you -- where we have the components in terms of sensors and command and control, and then we use different type of effectors to take out aerial threats and that is a portfolio, I think, has a big potential going forward being an open type of architecture system that we have now launched. Good growth, as you can see, 47% quarter-to-quarter excellent and an increasing backlog. The naval side, I must say there's a high demand also in that sort of market. I mean you know that we didn't get selected together with Babcock on the figures for Sweden. But you maybe saw yesterday that we were contracted by TKMS [indiscernible] Group merriment system in Germany to provide everything from composite structures to sensors, to command and control, to fire control systems, for that Frigate 128 going forward, 4 of them, that was almost SEK 9 billion in order intake and they might need another 4 going forward. So that was a big breakthrough of course. So there is a demand for that portfolio. I must underline that. And now the contract on the submarines for Poland in combination with the Swedish contract, of course, means that we are ramping up production capacity both in Karlskrona, the shipyard there and also taking more facilities into play and ramping up capability in Landskrona, the other shipyard, where a number of things will be done on the submarine side as well. We have other contracts also in Australia. We are selected as being the provider of all the surface vessels to have received another reasonable contracts from them this quarter. And also the combat boat is increasing in interest in many countries. So we have -- we're building a new facility, increasing our production capacity up north in [indiscernible] for that capability as well. And we have really good progress on the A26 submarine program in Sweden. The profitability of the naval side is a little bit weaker than the comparable quarter, but that's due that we took sort of an effect of that we didn't get selected. On the Swedish frigate side, together with Babcock. So we did a write-down and took the whole effect of that during the quarter. Otherwise, the profitability would have increased also in this area. So that was a once-off. Huge backlog now, of course, due to the contract in Poland. Combitech is also doing really well. The sales is a bit flat, but that's mainly through effects of the mix between consultant sort of consultant hours and how we treat sort of other more sort of commitment projects, delivering things timing-wise. So that's not a problem at all. They are doing well on the growth side as well. So this is more like a timing effect. But then, of course, the portability is increasing in a very good way. and we are growing in our commitments and contracts with, for example, the Nature Communication and Information Agency on the cybersecurity side, but also new contracts with the Swedish Defence Material Administration. So Combatech is doing really well, I must say, and that's really good for Saab because it's a resource and competence that we can handle sort of between internal projects in Saab, but also having good contracts externally. On the stainability side, we are doing a lot to, of course, support our commitments to reducing our emissions. This quarter-to-quarter, we did -- this quarter, we actually increased 8% due to lots of business activities. -- mainly and many, many flight test, test flights, but we're doing well in comparison to the to the commitment we've done with SPTI. So we are on a good track. And a couple of examples, you can see here what we're doing, more and more automated capabilities introduced it. We have a robot welding procedure now, which is reducing lots of material and by that, also CO2 emissions. Of course, same thing on the Aeronautics side. We use 3D printing, and we reduced emissions from that because of material usage and all that. So many small but important parts are being done to improve going forward in the way we do things when it comes to sustainability and environmental aspect of things. And we are at the second place in the aerospace and defense sector in the ranking done by financial times that list as ranking when it comes to European climate leaders. And our ambition is to be a leader in this area going forward, and of course, all the time. Last slide from my side, I think this slide is important to reflect upon. This shows how our backlog is divided in terms of how much is going to be delivered in the next 2.5 years from now and how much that is increasing quarter-to-quarter. If you look on a quarter -- second quarter a few years back, and as you can see, 60% roughly of the backlog is related to things that will be delivered in 2.5 years' time frame, and if you look back to the last second quarter last year, that has increased 36%, but now also because of the successes on the platform side, which is a bit longer contracts, of course, if you look upon what will be delivered from year 3 and onwards, that has increased dramatically, of course, from last year second quarter and now is SEK 120 billion and an increase of 132%. So this is just to show you that even though we get large platform contracts, still our short-term deliveries are increasing also a lot in the backlog, and that's still 60%. So we have a very good mix in our backlog, I must say. So without sort of complicating myself too much into numbers, which I think is Anna's responsibility more. I will now hand over to Anna for a more detailed review of our numbers.

Thank you, Micael, and good morning, everyone. It's so clear that we have delivered a strong second quarter. We have continued to strengthen our market position and executed on our strategy to both increase our customer deliveries, while we, at the same time, are increasing our investments in capacity expansion and also future capabilities. So altogether, our strategy execution is really reflected in our solid financial performance. So before going into the details into the quarter, I would like to take a step back and look into our performance during the last years and how it is in relation to our financial targets. And we can see that our sales growth CAGR is now at 24% over this period. And we have done this growth with a profitable growth journey, meaning that we have increased the EBIT more. It's at 34% now, supported by expanded gross margin as well as operating leverage. Our cash conversion reached 53% after this quarter. It was a little bit lower than we were after the first quarter, but a huge improvement compared to where we were last year at the same time. Also, as Micael said, we normally have a more stronger positive cash flow profile in the second half of the year. So altogether, we remain confident that we are well progressing towards our medium-term targets in cash conversion as well. Now let's look at the numbers more in detail and focusing on gross margin and operating income. We delivered a record gross margin for the single quarter. Importantly is that we expanded the gross margin by more than 1 percentage point compared to last year, and that is very much driven by surveillance and dynamics which increased their share of the total sales revenues in the quarter. In addition, we significantly increased the R&D, which is according to our strategy. And we are, at the same time, leveraging and scaling on administration and marketing and sales costs. And all in all, we are improving our EBIT margin to 11%, an increase of 41% in the quarter. Turning to our business areas, and let's start with Dynamics, where we have -- the ramping up is done successfully and we have had several deliveries in the quarter, which has contributed to the EBIT, which is an EBIT that is at record numbers this quarter. The sales and EBIT growth in Dynamics is broad across the business units. So very good performance from Dynamics. The same goes for surveillance, where we had the EBIT growth of 55% in the quarter. Here, it is very much the sensor systems business that is supporting both the growth and the EBIT margin expansion. And like Dynamics, surveillance is ramping up, and that is something that we see in the G1X production, which is ramping up and contributing to several deliveries and the EBIT margin increase in the quarter. In Aeronautics, it's the Gripen business that is expanding the production capacity with delivery levels that are increasing. And as we have mentioned before, we still have a negative contribution from the T7 program, which is something that we will have for some more time until we have ramped up and have scale in that production facility. Finally, our business area, Naval. The highlight for Naval this quarter is, of course, this huge contract for the 3 submarines to Poland, a large order of SEK 47 billion that will contribute to sales and revenues for a long time and several years ahead. On the other hand, we were not selected to the -- for the Swedish Frigate program. And as Micael has said, we have recognized costs for that, that was related to that program that we have taken now in this quarter. And that is what's impacting the EBIT and EBIT margin negatively in business are enabled this year. So all in all, we have delivered strong EBIT across the group. Importantly to mention is that we have achieved that while we, at the same time, are making significant investments for R&D in future growth, innovation and technology leadership. On a rolling 12-month basis, we have spent SEK 4.4 billion internally funded R&D, which is more than doubled since 3 years ago. Our R&D is focused on key technology areas, including autonomy, next-generation sensor capabilities, advanced weapon systems and AI-enabled command and control systems, all of which are supporting the future growth. These efforts are generating results and some examples during the quarter are, for instance, that we did a first test flight for an unmanned urban early warning system together with General Atomics. We also performed a successful remote or [indiscernible] firing from an unmanned and remotely controlled Combat Boat 90. These are just some examples on new capabilities that will reinforce our ability for future opportunities, but we're also going to strengthen our existing platform. Now let's take a look at cash flow. Looking at the first half year, we have a positive cash flow of SEK 1 billion, which is a significant improvement from last year. And that is coming from -- while we, at the same time, are increasing our investment in capacity that is increased by around SEK 1 billion compared to last year. The higher cash outflow from financial items and taxes is mainly related to the higher taxes that were paid in Q1. So we support from recent major wins, we see good prospects for good cash flow from -- for the rest of the year. And as Micael also mentioned, we have not yet received the advanced payment for the Poland contract. So we remain confident to deliver continued positive cash flow during the year. Notably as well is that we are improving our return on capital employed, and that is driven both by higher profitability and also higher capital turnover. Our balance sheet is strong with a net liquidity of SEK 2.5 billion is a decrease since year-end, and that is primarily from tax and the dividend payments per ton. We have cash and liquid investments of approximately SEK 17 billion and in addition to that, an unutilized revolving credit. Also worth mentioning is that S&P has made their annual review in June and they reconfirm our investment-grade rating of BBB+. So overall, this provides a strong financial position and flexibility going forward. So all in all, we remain confident in our medium-term targets. They are supported by strong market demand and increasing defense spending, and our portfolio is well aligned with customer requirements, and we continue to invest heavily in production capability, technology and talent, both to support future growth and to make sure that we can deliver on our commitments. These investments are increasingly translating into higher delivery volumes and improved scalability across the company. So against this backdrop, we are well positioned to reach our medium-term targets of organic sales growth in this period, '23 to '27 of around 22% CAGR. We have an EBIT growth higher than the sales growth and a cash conversion above 60%. So we see that the combination of the record backlog the strong demand, the capacity expansion, the disciplined execution and is a solid foundation for [indiscernible] targets. So with that, I hand over to Johan and the Q&A.

Thank you, Micael and Anna and let's move over then to the Q&A session.

And I think we have a couple of questions over the telephone that we're going to start with and also remind you that you can post your questions over the web interface as well, if you would like that. So please, operator, do we have any questions over the telephone conference.

Yes. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Daniel Djurberg from Handelsbanken.

Congratulations for the solid operations, Q2 and all new impact orders. I have a couple of questions, if I may. Can you hear me?

Yes, absolutely.Go ahead.

Yes. First, I would like to ask you a little bit on the group gross margin. It was strong given the mix. But I was thinking if we will have more of an unchanged mix and also the underlying gross margin would have been in that scenario. And also if you can comment on impact on component inflation so far and one to come?

Do you want to talk about the gross margin on Gripen?

Yes, I can do that. I mean as we can see, the gross margin has improved and this quarter, it was really driven by dynamics and surveillance. The margin is increasing while we're scaling the company, but of course, it's impacted by the mix from the different business areas. So -- but as we know, the contract that we are receiving now for the platform contracts are going to be delivered for over a long-term period. So we still see that the gross margin is expanding.

I must say it's a bit difficult to predict exactly how the mix will look like because even though the big platform contracts have been stretched when it comes to deliveries over time. They also -- those operational business areas are a bit different when it comes to the gross margins, but still delivering sort of the bottom line margin needed. So exactly how the mix of products, which has higher gross margins than maybe the platform margins will look like going forward, it's hard to say actually. It depends on the slide I show with how much of the backlog is actually related to short-term deliveries and the longer-term deliveries. But all in all, I mean, bottom line margin will be good in the mix. The other question was related to components, I guess. And I mean we're not a huge buyer of components because -- but of course, we pay attention to the fact that -- we don't have sort of limitations on access to components yet, but the prices are increasing due to data centers and GPUs and what have you, of course. But we're not a huge volume buyers. So it has not a big, big effect but some, of course, but we try to mitigate that through other means. So we're not sort of suffering like maybe the automotive industry and maybe the telecom industry in the way that they are doing yet, at least.

And I have 1 follow-up, and that would be, if I missed something on -- you talk about the advance payments for the Poland contract. Have you been more vocal on which portions [indiscernible] and when and how much or anything like that?

We're not sort of specifically talking about the percentage of contract or anything like that. But it's a good advance payment and a payment schedule that supports our quick quick ramp-up of shipyard capacity and all that. So we're not going to act like a bank related to that contract that much I can say.

Thanks so much. And operator, we have a next question.

Next question comes from the line of Ian Douglas-Pennant UBS.

So the first is on the Naval write-down. Could you give some kind of indication on the size of the write-down that you took? And what exactly was written out capitalized R&D or inventory? Or how should we think about that? The second, on surveillance. You mentioned that mix effect was supporter of the margin expansion there. I wonder if you can help us size the relative drivers of margin expansion is really what I'm trying to get at is how important is the underlying efforts that you're making to improve margins there? And thirdly, can you give us just a reminder on where you are in terms of production capacity in dynamics the plans to expand those and the kind of timing of when the new capacity comes on?

Well, on the Naval side, I mean, obviously, that was a pre-start to actually concepting and making sure that we can manage the time schedule as we heard a lot about the selection was about the schedule, and we were confident in managing the schedule for delivery, but that sort of led to that we did have to do a pre start on the project. And it was roughly SEK 200 million that we took on naval side. So it's easy as that. But there are other good things happening, mitigating things going forward. So I'm not worried about that. But that was, of course, a bit of a disappointment. The underlying margin on surveillance, well, I think surveillance as you're saying, as you're alluding to, I mean, the underlying margin of surveillance is a combination of the big platforms and also, of course, the scale of delivering sensor capability. And but I wouldn't say that margin should be good all in all in combination because I will go -- I won't go so far to say that now the margin on the big platforms like GlobalEye would be sort of limited on the contrary, really good margins. But of course, on the product side, if you really get to delivering 300 radars a year, get a huge scale effect. So when that demand continues, that would add a little bit more margin to it and the globalized, but surveillance should be sort of showing numbers that we are looking at right now and also going forward, that's what I can say on that. And the third one was...

The third question was a little bit about in Dynamics, where in terms of the ramp...

No, I think we have now a completely automated weapons factory, the weapon itself, sort of the tube, if we call it that, up and running in [indiscernible] we're automating the ammunition manufacturing in Koskoga that starts coming into play as well. We have put in robotics in the existing line. we're doing a parallel investment to do it fully automatic, if I put it that way. We will inaugurate the facility, the manufacturing facility in Grayling, Michigan in October time frame. And early next year, we will do the same in India for that manufacturing facility also. So a number of capacity increases are happening as we speak, and more and more every quarter comes into play. So it's going really well, I must say.

Excellent. And let's take a question from the web interface in between and it's around the capacity as well. For global now when you have started to get so many contracts, how do you view the capacity? What are we ramping up to? And how do you see that? It comes from Oxcap, [indiscernible]?

Well, I mean if you have asked me like 1 or 2 quarters ago, I would have probably said that we need to ramp up to 4 a year. Now I think we have to all take it a bit further to 6 per year. all the things we're doing right now in terms of increasing our capacity in Linchpin to do the conversion of a business set to missionize GlobalEye is going really well. But we will also create a hub in Canada since we are selected in Canada and maybe at another location in Europe going forward to support sort of the NATO and the Canada thing, but there's maybe also more in pipeline. So I would rather say that we go from 2 now and should aim for like 6 years in the 2030 time frame.

Okay. Good. Another question over the web interface. When you're starting to get more international orders now for the larger platforms and you're adding more orders and you're ramping up the delivery are those international orders come typically coming with a high margin? Or how should we view that?

Depends on the country and the contract, I would say. It's -- of course, we always try to have good margins in our contracts and that goes for every contract. We have a few legacy contracts that are not sort of fantastic because of events that happen over time. and maybe how we contracted them legacy wise, but we're doing a lot better when it comes to each and every contract, I would say now, which also adds, of course, to our development when it comes to profitability and our ability to invest in R&D.

Maybe I can adjust to that as well. I mean, also some of the international contracts come with an open book contract policy, which is normally a bit lower margin. So as you say, it's a mix and depending on which kind of contracts.

If you are sort of selected as a supplier for a certain capability in a country, that's a framework contract that has an open book, as Anna is saying. And then, of course, that puts a bit more pressure when it's not in competition anymore, it's a complete open book. So the mix between those contracts and also how many we win competition will also sort of create sort of the margin development.

Good. Okay. Please, operator, do we have any other questions on the telephone conference?

We now have a question from the line of Mikael Laséen from DNB Carnegie.

I have a question on the guidance, midterm targets. This quarter, you grew 30% organically. And the order intake reached SEK 68 billion, and you also got several new orders after a and but you left the medium-term sales guidance unchanged. I'm just wondering if this is a reflection of execution capacity or delivery timing or just conservative?

I would say that -- I mean, you're right. I mean, we have delivered 26-plus percent organically during the first half year this year also. So we're moving in the right direction. -- but there are still 6 quarters to go in our '23 to '27 time frame guidance period. And we've said that we've said 6 quarters a lot of deliveries and things that must happen and really get sort of in place. So I still stick with my comments that, yes, we're on the right track. And we will come back sort of towards the year-end on how we will look at the future guidance thing. I want to sort of just -- I don't want to jump into a new guidance sort of discussion now, I think it's fair to sort of give it another 2 quarters before we look upon where we're going. But of course, it's going to be continuous growth. I mean, we're confident in the guidance we have today. But that's where we are.