Sats ASA (SATS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Very good. Time is 10:30, so I'll think we start and we are also starting with the webcast, right? Yes. Very good. So good morning, everyone, and a warm welcome to the SATS Capital Markets Day here at Hotel Continental, both for all of you, of course, present here, but also to those following us on the streaming on webcast, a warm welcome to all of you as well. My name is Sondre Gravir, I'm the CEO of SATS, and we are well represented here today. I'm also joined by Ellen Vanberg, our Chief Product Officer; by Gaute Sandal, our Chief Digital Officer; and Cecilie Elde, our Chief Financial Officer. And if we take a look at the agenda today, this is what we have planned for you. We plan to spend 2 hours together, and we will conclude with a Q&A session after -- and then followed by lunch. I will start by giving you a short update on where we stand about the Nordic fitness market in general and our priorities going forward. And I'll start with a warning: for those of you who came here today to listen to get some shocking new messages and a completely new direction for the company, you will be disappointed. For those of you, though, who supports the development we have seen over the last quarters, you will hopefully be happy. And earlier this morning, we presented our Q1 results and it has been 9 subsequent quarters with very strong results and very high -- record high member activity levels for SATS. And I think all of that is basically just the result of the fact that we have been really following the plan we outlined at the Capital Markets Day in October 2022. We have delivered on the key actions we talked about back then at SATS Colosseum, where we had that Capital Markets Day. And the financial delivery has improved significantly since then, approaching now the EBITDA capacity of NOK 800 million that we presented. And as you will see in our presentation today, we will not change the course. We will do more. We will do better, but we will stay true to the values of SATS and the strategic direction will remain the same because we truly believe that, that is what will create the most value. And also, we think it's a fun direction to sail. And if we then go through the main messages we have for you today at this Capital Markets Day and the reason why we believe we are well positioned for further growth and value creation, it's summarized on this slide. We are the clear market leader in the growing market and is supported by a very powerful health and wellness megatrend in the society. We have a superior product offering driven by extensive clusters. We have prime locations. We have a market-leading group training offer. We have high-quality fitness floor. And we have very competent and dedicated employees. And then we have a modern technology and data platform, which enable us to have strong digital member products and deliver really operational excellence and a strong data-driven decision-making in the company from the top to the bottom. And together, all of these factors will result in a solid financial delivery also going forward. So we have set a midterm EBITDA ambition of NOK 1.1 billion. We will remain with a high cash conversion of around 55%. And when it comes to capital allocation, we will have a maintenance CapEx going forward also, as we have had in the past, of around 5% of revenues. We plan to open 8 to 12 new clubs annually. And we are dedicated to continue to have a very solid balance sheet with leverage staying in the lower range of the 1.5 to 2.0 net debt-to-EBITDA range that we have guided on. And we will make significant shareholder distributions of at least 50% of net profit through a combination of dividend and share buybacks going forward. And we will cover all of these messages and action points in the presentation today. So let me first start with the market we are operating in. As I said, we are operating in a growing market and we are in a strong position to capture that growth. Our club network is strategically positioned in the most attractive urban areas across the Nordics. And growth is supported by the overall health mega -- health and wellness megatrend, as I said, that we see in the society, especially among young people. And we are addressing a major public health issue, which is physical inactivity. And finally, the fitness industry has shown remarkable resilience during the economic cycles that we have been through. And I will dive into each of these elements in the coming slides. So first, when you talk about capturing growth, it all starts with where we are located. And our footprint is one of our biggest competitive advantages. Most of our clubs are located in capital areas with the strongest population growth and density and we have very attractive micro locations. And the demographics in the capitals are ideal, there is a high share of young and middle-aged people, exactly the groups that have the strongest preference for staying active in fitness clubs. And finally, the capital cities are also enjoying strong income levels, which drives higher willingness to pay for quality offerings like ours. And all of these factors combined mean that our club network is not just large, but it's strategically placed to deliver both growth and profitability going forward. And then if we take a closer look at how people choose to work out, the trends are clearly in our favor. Because you can stay active. If you want to stay active and if you want to have a workout, you could do it in 3 areas. You could do it outdoor, you could do it at home or you could do it in the fitness club. Those are the 3 areas. And among those who train regularly, fitness clubs are the only area out of those 3 arenas that is growing and is really taking a large share. And this trend we see in the Nordics, but we also see it in the rest of Europe. And this shift underlines how fitness clubs are becoming an even more important part of everyday life for a growing number of people. And the growth we see today in the market is not just a short-term growth. It is a structural shift in behavior that we see in the market. Gym training is becoming more and more popular, especially among young people. And as the graph shows, penetration is significantly higher in the younger age groups compared to the older ones. And as these younger generations get older, they maintain their workout routines. So this creates what we are calling the clear generation effect, where the new cohorts with strong fitness habits replace older generations with lower gym participation. And I also want to list that the importance of what we do in SATS extends far beyond just running our gyms. Physical inactivity is one of the biggest global health challenges, as you all know, fueling the rise of overweight, mental health disorders and chronic diseases. And the societal cost of this is staggering if you look at the numbers, but the personal cost for each individual is, of course, even worse. And for SATS, this highlights both a very important responsibility but also an enormous opportunity. And as the scale of the problem grows, so does the need for a solution like ours, and fitness clubs, we believe, are a fundamental part of the solution for society on these challenges going forward. New development, for example, like weight loss and medications, are good examples. They are most effective when combined with exercise, and it's extremely important to continue with strength exercise after you stop using those medications. And this further is underlying the need for what we offer. So our impact in society is real. If you look at 1 year of the total visits generated in SATS, it's estimated that this equals 17,300 quality life -- adjusted life years and NOK 24 billion in socioeconomic welfare gains. So in short, we are operating in a market where we believe that the need for our services will continue to grow and where we contribute directly to better health outcomes in the society in line with the UN Sustainability Development Goal #3. And then when the times are tough, consumers cut back on their spending, we know, but they prioritize very carefully. They don't cut back on everything. And survey shows that gym memberships are among the very last areas people look to cut if you look at the graph to the left. Health, wellness and fitness have become non-negotiables for many and the luxury you give yourself in your daily life. And this is just -- and it's not just survey that shows this, we have proven it through real performance. And looking back at previous periods with shrinking household purchasing power, SATS has consistently delivered solid revenue growth and stable ARPM. And even through challenging economic cycles, the demand for fitness and SATS will remain strong. So then if you go from the total market overview, more looking into our position. And in this growing market, we are the clear market leader in the Nordics, the largest fitness club market in Europe relative to population. We operate 273 clubs across the region with a network strategically located in the most attractive urban areas. And the scale does not only strengthen our brand and market presence, it also allows us to have a superior member experience fueled by broad-access, high-quality facilities and a strong sense of community. And for those of you, it's been a while since you visited the SATS club. Here, we will give you a short reminder. [Presentation]

Thank you. I don't know about you guys, I get excited when I see this. And to be honest, I want to be in a club and not here at Continental, but that we will save for later. But as you saw on this movie, as SATS, we really have a complete ecosystem for training and really making us a one-stop shop for our members. Whether it comes to strength training on the fitness floor, if it comes to group exercise classes, personal training, treatments or if you want to combine any of those with dropping off your kids at our childcare facilities, we will have you covered. And in addition to the training offering with the retail offering we have on the SATS Online platform, it really ensures that we give our members what they need, both outside and inside the club. And just as important as the concrete product, we offer a very strong community, which really makes working out something you want to do again and again, and Ellen will soon dive more into detail in our product offering. And for us, we really take great pride in offering training opportunities for all ages. And this is both an important part of our social responsibility and it's a strategic advantage for our business because helping people to stay active through all status of life supports better public health, but it also allows us to optimize how we use our clubs throughout the day. And our product range truly reflect this lifetime commitment with both membership types and concepts targeted for everyone. And this ensures that we stay relevant and valuable for members in every stage of their life. And by appealing to such a wide range of age groups, we create strong traffic patterns across the day. So in the morning, if you go to a typical SATS club in the morning, it will typically start a day early off with the adult members. Then the senior members will come before lunch between 9 and 11, where we also have most of the senior classes. And then the adults come back during their lunch break from work. This is especially important in Sweden where you have lunch [ pauses ], which is an important part of the daily training routine. And then the young segment, typically the school people, et cetera, they come after school time between 2:00 until 4, 4:30 before the adult members come back in the afternoon and the evening peaks where we also have a very strong group training offering and schedule. And the breadth of the member base really enables a better utilization of our clubs throughout the day, which is extremely important for us, which is also, of course, beneficial for the member experience. And one of the greatest strengths is our very strong cluster of clubs. The network of clubs, our clusters, as we call it, delivers great value to our members. And at the same time, it represents a very powerful barrier to entry for competitors. In fact, around 70% of our active members in capital areas use more than 1 SATS club in their daily or regular training routines. And this flexibility enabled by these strong clusters allow members to work out close to where they live, and close to where they work or also when they're traveling. And it really gives us scale advantages because we can offer all products to all members in the cluster without having all products at all the clubs, as Ellen will describe further when she goes through this. And the breadth and the depth of our clusters gives members a truly unique offering, which is incomparable in the market and is something very difficult to replicate. Another key advantage for us is our employees. There's a lot of fitness clubs without employees. And we have in the heart of SATS 10,000 passionate and skilled employees. They are true inspirators. They meet every members with energy, care, professionalism and making sure that each member feels valued and seen when they visit SATS. And we are truly a value-driven company, and this is very important for me and the full management team in SATS. Our 4 values: putting members first, being accountable, being professional and always aiming to be extraordinary. These 4 values are guiding us in our decision-making every day at SATS. And we believe that as SATS, this human touch in many different touch points throughout the customer journey makes really all the difference. We believe that delivering a great service to our members, support and moderation starts the very moment a member walk into our doors and it's our passionate and skilled employees that really bring this to life every day. It starts with this warm hello at the entrance of a club to clean, well-maintained wardrobes, to tidy and energizing fitness floor, to group instructors that really are passionate about what they do and to our highly dedicated and educated personal trainers. And altogether, this is really important for the atmosphere and the community in the SATS Club where everyone should be feeling welcoming, supportive and safe. And SATS turned 30 years actually just a few days ago, and I think the culture and the values in the company has been the most important driver for success during these 30 years. And personally, I truly believe that, that will also be the case going forward. And our main focus is to help our members stay active. So we are very proud of the fact that the passive share of member is steadily declining. And more active members result in strong visit numbers, a testament to both the attractiveness of our product offering and the habits we are hoping to create. At the same time, as you can see here, member satisfaction remains high and is even strengthening, reflecting the quality and relevance of the experience we deliver. And the final result of these 3 factors is reduced churn, which is great for our vision of making people healthier and happier, but it's also truly what is driving financial delivery in our company, both today and going forward. And all in all, the positive momentum that we see on these important underlying drivers gives us confidence that we are on the right path and that there should be a lot of potential also going forward. And then to capture the full potential in this growing market, we also operate with Fresh Fitness as a second brand in Norway. Today, we operate 40 Fresh Fitness clubs across Norway, more to come. Fresh Fitness helps us to reach a more price-conscious member segment, as well as expand into both the smaller cities, but also smaller premises where a SATS club would not be a natural fit. And in this way, we are able to grow our total market coverage without diluting the SATS brand. And operationally, Fresh Fitness benefits from significant synergies in the group through shared infrastructure and resources, ensuring a competitive pricing and true cost efficiency in Fresh because it's really a cost-efficient concept with a simple and lean business model, which enables profitable growth with relatively low capital investments. And to conclude this first section, I think this graph illustrates my most important point that our strong position in the market, combined with our leading product offering, gives us a very powerful platform to continue to grow and deliver on our ambitions. Today, we are seeing more visits in our clubs than ever before. In fact, in 2024, we had, as you see here, 31% more visits than we had in what was then a great year pre-COVID in 2019. And the growth going forward is guided by a very clear purpose. Our why is to make people healthy and happier. And our what is to really be the best fitness club operator. And even though we are 30 years old, as I said, this year, I can promise you we are just in the beginning. And with that, I'll hand it over to Ellen, who will take you through how we are continuously strengthening our product offering to drive further engagement and value. Please go ahead, Ellen.

Thank you, Sondre. Hi, everyone. My name is Ellen, and I'm the CPO of SATS. I will take you through our product offering, highlighting what makes our offering unique, what we succeed with and how our plans are going forward for continued growth. We define product in SATS as the 4 following: fitness floor, group training, personal training and retail. And first, let's kill the myth of ghost members being profitable to us. The data shows us that active members are loyal members and loyal members are profitable members. Our approach is to deliver a best-in-class product offering to inspire and encourage regular activity, which translates directly into loyalty and profitability. Through my part of the presentation, I will show you how each of our products contribute to that. I will start with retail as that is the first thing you meet when you enter a SATS club. Retail is a key part of creating a welcoming, inspiring atmosphere from the moment the members walk in the door. It's convenient as we have everything you need for your workouts and all the essential nutrition you need before, during and after your workouts. Also, our private label collection strengthens the brand visibility with such products like the iconic backpack being visible in the streets in all the large cities in the Nordics. Our approach to retail also fosters a proactive sales culture among employees, and it encourages a proactive sales mindset. When it comes to personal training, we're the largest player in the Nordics with more than 11,000 PTs and physiotherapists. It's a premium offer, providing highly professionalized support through every stage of our members' lives. Whether a member is looking to perform, recover, prevent injury or simply stay active, our PTs and physiotherapists deliver tailored guidance that adapts to each individual needs. Our PT business is a strong profit-generating business for us, and we extract additional willingness to pay for a premium service from selected member segments. We have a strong in-house team of PTs and a massive setup for training and development, and we want to recruit even more personal trainers to strengthen this position. Our goal is to grow our PT services and inspire and support an even broader and more diverse member base. We have seen strong growth in the number of workouts over the past few years, both on fitness floor and group training. We have achieved an annual growth rate of 20% on group training since 2022 by expanding class schedules, extending popular concepts and delivering new classes based on emerging trends. At the same time, also fitness floor visits have grown more than the market and shows great development. We continuously adapt the layouts and equipment based on real-time data to improve the member flow and experience. We take a strategic approach to space allocation so that each product area is utilized to its full potential. The fitness floor still remains the backbone of our product offering, both in terms of space and visits. We see favorable NPS scores for both the range of equipment and the availability of equipment and this is something we follow closely as members' expectations evolve and so must we. By using real-time sensor data and having in-house equipment ownership, we ensure high uptime, faster maintenance and a smart space utilization. Optimizing the fitness floor is not just about improving today's experience, it's also a cost-efficient alternative to building new clubs. Our approach ensures that we continually enhance member satisfaction and operational efficiency. Group training continues to be one of our most powerful drivers when it comes to member activation and loyalty. By increasing class offering, we have successfully attracted new members and we see that expanding the schedules can be translated directly into growth in new group training members. Group training members are more valuable to us as they stay significantly longer than fitness floor members. They pay on average NOK 100 more per month. They also deliver extremely high NPS scores, which proves that a strong and evolving group training portfolio is key both in member satisfaction, and again, profitability. Finally, a well-run group training studio can accommodate nearly twice as many members as a busy fitness floor, making it a highly efficient use of space. Over the years, we have built world-class capabilities in scaling and delivering high-quality group training. From in-house production of pre-choreographed classes to recruiting and educating more than 700 new instructors annually, we control the full value chain. Our strong infrastructure, including studio design, CRM, scheduling models, performance analytics ensures consistency and excellence across our network. We have the industry's strongest group training team with 6,000 active instructors and 17 master trainers, giving us flexibility and results. The comprehensive setup positions us to continue leading the group training market well into the future. In response to the growing focus on health, wellness and longevity, we have expanded our offering with new wellness classes and also expanded our Hot product. In 2024, we launched a wide range of wellness classes across 150 clubs, and wellness is no longer a niche but a core part of our product offering. We also see a growth in the demand for Hot classes, and we have expanded both with new classes in the Hot studios and expanded with new Hot studios. So today, we offer close to 150 Hot classes every day. We translate boutique trends into scalable concepts through family of classes, combining different trends and smart studio layouts. We're inspired by boutique studios in Europe, and we're translating the trends into scalable, inclusive concepts that fit a wider member base. By strategically connecting the trends like combining HIIT and strength in our new Reformer concept, we maximize the appeal while ensuring operational efficiency. Through smart studio layouts and family of classes, we can run more than 12 classes per day in each studio, really maximizing the utilization of the room. So our goal is to take the best from boutique fitness and make it available to all our members. Our newest concept, Reformer, was launched at 1 location in Oslo and 1 in Sweden now this March, and it is developed based on the principles I just described. [Presentation]

I can recommend all of you to test it at SATS [ this week ]. Our strong micro clusters gives us the opportunity to offer a broad and varied selection of activities, which is larger than even the largest fitness aggregators. This diversity ensures that members can find exactly what they're looking for, whether they seek intensity, flexibility, recovery or sports. It also boosts loyalty because members can evolve their fitness journey within our ecosystem without needing to look elsewhere. On the right side of the graph, you see -- or the right side of the slide, you can see an example of 3 clubs forming a cluster with a diverse and strong mix of group trading. We know that 70% of our members in the large cities work out at more than 1 club and this allows us to leverage the micro clusters and optimize facility usage in a smart and efficient way. With more than 13,000 classes every single week, we deliver a truly unique combination of breadth and depth. Just to give you a sense of what that looks like in practice, in Oslo, we offer more than 500 running classes every week. And in Stockholm, our yoga offering is exceptional with over 500 weekly yoga classes and nearly 200 of them held in Hot studios. And in Copenhagen, we run almost 200 cycling classes every week, providing variety in frequency in one of our most popular formats. So to sum it up, we have a strong foundation for continuous growth. With the fitness club and market penetration of only 16% to 21% in the Nordic countries, the growth potential is significant. Our strategy is clear: strengthen and evolve our product offering to reach and activate a broader part of the population. We will continue leading the group training segment, investing in structure development, innovating and renewing our class concept and expanding our schedules. At the same time, we will further enhance the fitness floor experience, optimize our space and differentiate our clubs as premium destinations. With the strong foundation and proven capabilities, we're well positioned for sustainable profitable growth in the years to come. Thank you.

Thank you, Ellen. I'm Gaute Sandal, Chief Digital Officer, and I will lead you through you now, as Ellen has talked about, how we are leading on the product side, how we also are leading on the technology side and how that creates value for our members and organization. We will go through 3 topics. First, I will explore briefly our unparalleled leadership in data and technology. Second, we will look into what kind of data we are able to gather and how we turn that and transform it into insights, actionable insights. And thirdly, we're going to spend most of our time how we leverage those insights to drive success for both members and organization. Our data and technology platform stands unrivaled in the industry, both within the markets where we operate and also beyond. It's a true competitive advantage and a significant entry barrier for competitors. It's crafted entirely in-house with capacities spanning digital development, data science and AI. The platform is cloud-based, modern by both design and architecture. And it represents a hub where we gather data from multiple sources and apply it back to our users, both our members and our employees. And using one lens to how we gather the insights, this is the lens of a new member. When a new member joins us, we know very little about the new member, except if you were a member before, you maybe allowed us to have your data. So we know very little except some simple demographics. After the introductionary period, typically spanning 8 weeks, that's the time it takes to create habits. We know somewhat more your class bookings, your club visits. Maybe you responded to the onboarding service, so we know something about your ambitions. We know something about your app usage and maybe something about prior workout experience. But still, it's a bit limited. But over time, we really build a granular and detailed GDPR-compliant view, also taking into account areas like seasonal behaviors over the course of the year; preferences for notifications in what kind of channel; what kind of member feedback you give to us after your club visits; your accomplishments and digital challenges in the app; not only booking behavior but also cancellation behavior, which is super important for us to understand; what kind of training you do outside of SATS with smartwatch integrations; retail purchases and much more. This is truly extensive, unlocking an unlimited ability to serve the member with the right type of communication at the right time with one simple, but very challenging goal: to create sustainable workout habits. So with that lens, let's look a bit about how we utilize those insights across 3 different areas. First, how we use those insights to innovate and enhance our digital services back to the members; how we apply them in daily operations; optimizing the efficiency and effectiveness in all that we do; and lastly, how we leverage the insights to inform our strategic decisions at every level of management, guiding our organization on both small as well as large matters. We start with the members. One of our important values is members first. With our significant both collective expertise and industry experience, coupled with the learnings we get from agile test-and-learn approach, we have one of the most powerful member apps in the industry as of today. It is native developed, meaning we have a separate app for both iPhone and Android. It has a phenomenal growth, more than -- close to 20% growth in users over the last 12 months, fostering also a thriving social community within that. And with 200,000-plus unique users, and note that term, unique users, every day, every day, it is a powerful digital product in its own right. And during the course of a typical month, more than 95% of all members, also the ghost members that Ellen talked about, engage with the app by own demand and not because we are pushing them to. And we know for a fact that app usage drives club visits and physical activity. The app is powered with AI features helping us to distribute visits between clubs according to capacity and also to fill up classes with predicted availability, although there's a waiting list. It is a high involvement and high-impact channel for contextual messages and reminders from friend invites, welcome greetings, rebooking reminders and prompts for member feedback after the club visits. And remember, the app is not just a tool, it's, as I mentioned earlier, a serious competitive advantage, delivering value far beyond any white label solution that is out there. And I know that all of you are very familiar with our app, but just a quick overview in case you forgot what we can do in that. It's, of course, a place where you can book group training and PT. You can invite your friends to your planned training and both of you all well notified if the other cancels, so it creates a commitment. You can see live and predicted club capacity so you can choose to go to the club with the atmosphere you seek. It's, of course, a full self-service section to manage your membership. You use it for both checking into the club and also increasingly with the group training class ticket at more and more clubs. If you seek inspiration, there are a number of training programs where you can track your progress. You have the friends suite where you can give kudos and comments on your friend's activity, imitate the same calendar commitment that a group training class or PT appointment has where you can schedule your own workout at your own chosen time and place and also invite friends to that. And the app is also where you can enjoy the perks of the loyalty program that we have and where you are frequently notified to maintain your habits, and of course, where you also can attach your smartphone so that you have full overview of your training both inside and outside of SATS. Moving on, how do we apply the insights back to operations, an environment characterized by very high pace across all the different aspects of this complex and dynamic one-stop shop that we have, which requires the right insight at the fingertips of our frontline staff at all times and especially our leaders. And these are a few examples of how we use aggregated member insights cut in slightly different ways and empowering our leaders in the daily life of a club. First, I remember feedback, NPS. It's a powerful tool. We get 30,000 to 40,000 responses every month. Thousands of them with qualitative comments, leading our club managers knowing what they -- to continue doing and what to change for tomorrow. And talking about studio -- and we can also distinguish the results on NPS based on what kind of visit you had: PT, group training or studio visit. And talking about studio visits, with a significant distribution of sensor technology on equipment, it also gives us the ability to better predict maintenance cycles, differentiates cleaning routines based on usage, all to provide the best possible member experience. Our regional managers, they oversee a vast number of clubs and supported by our internally developed tools. We help them determine which clubs to focus on in which areas, again, ensuring the high and consistent good quality service. And lastly, as an example, our ability to analyze class scheduling down to every 60-minute slot at every club based on demand. It says something about the granular approach we have to always meet our members' needs. Ellen talked a bit about our cluster of clubs. We have -- all our clubs are somewhat different, but they should also be the same. We should give you the same kind of member experience every time you visit a SATS club. And for that, we use a tool, which has the overview of all the tasks for all staff at all times during a day, a week, a month currently being rolled out to the whole network of clubs. And lastly, the third lens on how we leverage our insights, which is data-driven decision-making that spans every management level in the organization. And starting from the top right, I, as a club manager, I have the insights I need to be able to perform -- to manage the performance of my club and know where to put the extra efforts to deliver on my goals. That's based on the tools that we give. I will show you in a couple of examples. As a regional manager overseeing a portfolio of clubs having the insights, I need to know where -- which of my clubs that are high performing and low performers and why; with live performance at my fingertips, understanding precisely why they succeed or face challenges. As a country manager, track the short-term and long-term development of every club in every region, being able to direct effort, capital and time where it gives the most effect. And lastly, on group level, we have an unmatched availability of insights, making us take the right decisions on strategic projects, guide our long-term priorities as well as supporting budgeting and forecasting purposes. Let's look at a couple of examples where we are looking into this cube of insights from 2 different angles. And I apologize for the blurry images, but it is with a purpose. This is what we assume to be proprietary knowledge, a true competitive advantage. It might seem like simple dashboards and KPIs and trackers, but we have -- they represent a monumental effort in investing in identifying the exact KPIs and measures that defines excellence. To the left, it's a performance dashboard of a club, a single club where it's immediately apparent which areas are exceeding expectations and which require attention versus the club's target, versus its defined peers in the portfolio and the ability to double-click to gain deeper knowledge. And this isn't just about metrics. It's about unlocking the deeper understanding of what drives profound change. And to the right, using the exact same robust data set, but with a different angle, zooming into one specific area, this is for group training, we can see every club in the portfolio on the single aspects. And with a double-click again, go into the reasons behind each club's success or challenges and again turning data into action. The last point before rounding off my section is the area I also personally am most passionate about, which is churn. And in the middle of this page you recognize the picture from earlier where we see the member insight on the individual level that we have in one single data platform. And we harness these insights to combat churn on an individual level. And churn comes in 2 different ways and they are equally important: activity churn, when a member stops working out; and membership churn, when they resign entirely. And it has been mentioned before -- today, activity churn is our industry's greatest challenge. In order to succeed with improving public health, keeping members active and financial delivery, we employ our insights to continually experiment and learn and scale up what kind of triggers and interventions that positively impact our members' behavior when we detect signs of decreasing activity. As an example, during the course of a couple of months, we conducted close to 30 different experiments, just communication through a rigid setup of experiment and control groups to see if we are able to impact behavior. And we looked at not only the immediate results, but also during the course of 1, 2, 3 and 4 months. And the insights from those kind of experience, it's not something we spend a lot of time analyzing because it's ready in our dashboards at our fingertips. We can easily see who works and scale them up to the entire member portfolio. And similarly for membership churn, our daily segmentation of all members in the database, daily segmentation of all members in the database, gives us churn predictions by segments, by personas and allows us to tailor offers based on who you are and what your challenges are to retain you. To sum up, we have an unmatched data platform and technology architecture. We transform those data into actionable insights and leverage them to benefit our members and our staff. We set the standards in our industry on technology beyond the markets we currently are in. And as we move forward, we will continue to develop the digital services to our members on their journey to become healthier and happier. We will continue to improve the digital platform that we have, maturing our use of AI specifically to simplify and automate complex processes and also further to enhance decision-making, building on our already very high standards, ensuring that actionable insights flows through the entire organization. That sums up the technology part. And we will now break until 11:35. [Break]

We're all back. Hi, everyone. My name is Cecilie Elde, I'm CFO at SATS, and I will now take you through the financial delivery behind the strategy that we have presented and the action that we are taking to unlock the value. And I'll focus on 3 areas: how we have delivered the financial ambition we set in 2022, why our existing clubs continue to be the main engine for financial improvement and how our disciplined expansion and capital deployment position us for continued value creation. And throughout the presentation, I will show you that our value-creation strategy is not only working, it is scalable. And I will also outline our midterm ambition and explain how we plan to achieve it. So with that, let's begin. At SATS, we have built a business designed for resilience and long-term value creation. And let me start by briefly summarizing the core strengths of our business model and financial profile. Firstly, we operate a diversified, low-risk business with a strong market position, a high visibility subscription model supported by a large member base. And our presence across the Nordic region ensures geographic and economic stability. And secondly, we have a proven track record with consistent volume growth, rising yield, low churn compared to peers in our industry and a history of double-digit EBITDA growth. And third, our profitability is strong and growing, driven by efficient club operations, high drop-through on revenue growth and a well-invested local and central IT backlog. And finally, we maintain strong cash generation enabling us to grow while also returning capital to shareholders through dividends and share buybacks. And these fundamentals are clearly reflected in our financial performance post-COVID because despite the decline in number of clubs, our member base is growing, which is evidence of the robust demand for our offering. Our top line performance has been strong with total revenues growing with an annual rate of 11%. And average revenue per member has increased steadily, highlighting our ability to improve both value and pricing. And we've also seen a strong recovery in profitability, EBITDA margin has rebounded to almost 15% in 2024, in line with pre-COVID levels. And this is driven by disciplined cost management and operational improvements. And lastly, our cash generation remains high with cash conversion of 69% in 2024, which gives us the flexibility to both fuel growth and continuing delivering returns to shareholders. And at our Capital Markets Day in late 2022, we laid out a clear ambition and plan to improve financial performance with targeted actions to strengthen profitability in the midterm. And now 2.5 years later, we have -- are proud to say that we have delivered. Quarter-by-quarter, we have made consistent progress against the plans that we made. We've increased members per club. We've significantly lifted average revenue per member. And we have kept tight control on costs, both at club level and centrally despite inflation and continued investments in our product offering. And the improvement in profitability has allowed us to significantly reduce debt and bring leverage back to target level. And while we are now approaching the original ambition of NOK 800 million in EBITDA, one thing is clear: there's still substantial upside ahead. The existing portfolio has more to give, and our EBITDA capacity is already proving to be higher than we initially anticipated. And in the coming period, the main driver for further profitability will continue to be performance improvements in the existing base. And in the following section, I will walk you through the results that we have delivered so far, how we will apply the insights that we have gained and how this will shape both our forward-looking plan and our new midterm financial ambition. Our first building block, the member growth has been key to unlock value across the portfolio, contributing to NOK 200 million in incremental revenue compared to 2022. We have achieved this not simply by adding clubs, but by doing so efficiently, improving by increasing number of members per club and per square meter. So from 2022 to 2024, the member base grew by 1.7%, reaching 733,000 members. But more importantly, we've improved members per club by 3.1%. And even stronger, members per square meter has also grown by 5.5%, a metric that directly supports margin expansion and our portfolio tuning strategy. And we have been clear that our goal is to optimize for revenues, which sometimes mean lower volume growth with -- but yield for high -- for our unique premium offerings. But that does also mean that there is still strong potential for member growth across all our markets. And looking deeper into the per country view, we see a very strong performance in Norway, both in terms of member growth and members per club above group average. And this sets the benchmark for what's achievable, but by no means indicate that we are at capacity as I will go into further detail on later in the presentation. Moving to the second key growth lever, the membership yield. And this has been the single largest contributor to EBITDA growth, delivering NOK 580 million in additional revenue in 2024 compared to 2022, this is a 16% uplift in total. And there are 4 drivers behind this increase. First, the membership mix. We see a clear shift towards more premium membership mix, supported by successful product development and stronger member engagement. Add-on services like group training are resonating with our members and increasing perceived value. Second are the list price adjustments we have been implementing consistently across margin -- markets, ensuring that we stay aligned with market conditions while maintaining competitiveness. Third is the inflation-linked pricing with contract prices adjusted according to the CPI changes. And this has been particularly effective during periods of high inflation, helping to preserve margins, and we have done so without impacting member retention. And fourth, we've executed minimum price adjustments for members paying significantly below list price. And while sensitive, these adjustments have been carefully managed and phased, ensuring that we have fairness and transparency delivering uplift. And as you can see from the graph on the right, this -- we have had a steady and sustained increase in contractual membership price, which has risen with 8% annually since 2022 with further upside continuing into 2025. So in short, yield is not just a metric. It's a growth lever, one we will continue to optimize as our service offering evolves. Our third growth lever of the revenues, particularly from personal training and retail, has delivered a 10% improvement in gross profit despite revenues being fairly stable throughout the period. From 2022 to '24, the gross margin on PT and retail improved from 33% to 36%. And that might seem modest, but on a higher revenue base, it translates into significant EBITDA impact. And PT contributes to NOK 187 million in gross profit, up 7% versus 2022. And retail contributed to NOK 84 million in gross profit, up 17% over the last 2 years. And this was driven by both pricing initiatives, fewer discount campaigns, reducing direct costs, which is down by 6% in the period. And while PT and retail may not be our primary growth engines, they play an important role in overall profitability. Not only do they provide incremental margin, but they also enhance member experience and stickiness in a subscription-based model. So in summary, other revenues are strategically managed for both member value and EBITDA contribution, and we do see continued opportunity in fine-tuning and growing this segment. Lastly, let's examine how we have managed the cost base, balancing growth investments with cost discipline. Over the past 2 years, we have deliberately invested in areas that support future growth, specifically within group training and product development, but we have done so without losing control of costs. From '22 to '24, club operating expenses increased by 5%, reaching NOK 3.7 billion. And this increase reflects salary increases, higher energy cost and lease costs, but also targeted investments to strengthen our product offering. And even though this, OpEx per club rose marginally from NOK 11 million to NOK 11.8 million, which is well within expectations given the high inflationary pressure in the period. Overhead expenses has remained flat as a share of revenue at 11.7% and demonstrates strong operational discipline and efficiency within the central organization. So while we spent where necessary to enhance the member experience, increase ARPM, we have ensured that the cost base remains tightly managed. Now let's turn to one of the core strengths of our model, the operating leverage because we benefit from a highly scalable platform, where around 85% of our cost base is fixed or semi-fixed, and this structure allows us to translate revenue growth directly into EBITDA, particularly for the mature part of the portfolio. And breaking it down, rent and leases account for roughly 1/3 of the cost base, and these are fixed costs, which are CPI-linked adjustments for the long-term leases. And importantly, the footprint of clubs is already in place and future growth does not require expansion of space. Salaries, another 1/3 of the cost base are semi-fixed. Our model is lean and efficient, and staffing is tightly aligned with actual visits and usage at our clubs. And we have built an overhead organization with enough capacity to scale without adding new layers of growth. And the remaining 1/3 is categorized as other and includes variable elements such as energy cost, marketing, maintenance. And while these costs fluctuate with activity, they remain well controlled. And what all this means is that as clubs fill up, the marginal cost for each additional number is low and this enables strong drop-through to EBITDA for membership revenue in mature clubs and new clubs. So in effect, we are now at the stage where incremental growth yields disproportionately higher returns. The heavy lifting on the infrastructure is largely done. We are no longer building scale. We are now leveraging it. And let's take a closer look at club level profitability. We have seen a remarkable improvement in EBITDA per club with a group-wide performance doubling from '22 to 2024 increasing from NOK 2.4 million to NOK 4.9 million per club, and the margins have expanded from 16% to 26% in the period. But more importantly, if we isolate the mature clubs, performance is even stronger. And these clubs have reached a club EBITDA of NOK 5.8 million in 2024 and this equates to 30% club EBITDA margin, hitting the target for club economics that we have previously communicated. And in fact, the 220 mature clubs already performed 19% above the group average, which speaks to the significant upside in the portfolio as newer clubs ramp up. And currently, 53 clubs are still in the maturing phase. Many of them was opened just after COVID and 18 of those are less than 18 months old. And another 18 faced delayed member ramp-up due to pandemic restrictions. And as these clubs mature, they are expected to follow the same margin trajectory, thanks to the scalable cost base and proven operating model. And looking geographically, we see that the performance is somewhat different between our markets driven largely by the maturity profile in the club portfolio. Norway remains our strongest performing country with average EBITDA per club of NOK 6.6 million and a best-in-class margin of 34%. And this also reflects a higher share of mature clubs, greater operational efficiency and also strong brand equity. Sweden, while currently lower in profitability, sits at NOK 3.9 million with a 22% margin. But this is also due to a higher share of clubs opened from 2020 and onwards. And these are still ramping up. And as these clubs mature and members per club improves in the Swedish market, we expect profitability to converge towards the group average. Finland and Denmark remained behind with margins of 16% and 17%, respectively, but it's important to note that Denmark has shown a significant improvement over the last couple of years from loss-making to now profitable clubs. And product improvements are now underway across all markets and what's encouraging to see is that the key levers, ARPM growth, operational efficiency and fixed cost leverage, are applicable across all countries. With time and execution, we believe that the profitability gap between the markets will narrow. The regional variance that we see today simply reflects different stages on the same journey. And the progress that we've seen in Norway provides a clear road map for success elsewhere. So let's take a closer look at how we manage investments in our club portfolio. Since the IPO, we have invested almost NOK 1 billion in our clubs, building a high-quality, well-maintained portfolio with strong product offerings. And as shown on the chart on the left, maintenance CapEx has ranged between 3% to 5% of revenues with a step-up to 5.2% in 2024. And this reflects the increased focus on upgrades and member experience. And going forward, we will continue to invest in our clubs as they age and as lease agreements come up for renegotiation, making sure that we keep quality high and competitive advantage strong. But maintenance is no longer just about upkeep. A growing share of our CapEx is now directed towards growth-enabling initiatives such as adding new equipment, expanding group training concepts and optimizing layout for better flow and better utilization. And this shift supports further member growth within the existing portfolio and makes each square meter work harder for us. And we're also investing in digital infrastructure through ongoing development of our data platform and member app. And as Gaute presented, these tools are data-driven decision-making at every level and deliver exceptional digital experience for our members. And our investments are disciplined. They are targeted and increasingly focused around growth, ensuring that our club portfolio stays ahead of member expectations and continues to drive profitability. And shifting focus over to cash generation, which is an important enabler for strategic flexibility. We continue to deliver strong operating cash flow supported by high-quality earnings and negative working capital dynamics. And as shown on the left, net working capital remains structurally negative, driven by member prepayments. And in 2024, it stood at NOK 666 million or around 13% of our annual revenues. And this provides a consistent liquidity benefit and supports cash generation even in growth periods. On the investment side, we are now back at around our target of 5% of revenues in 2024 and we will keep that level going forward as well. So operating cash flow before expansion CapEx were NOK 510 million in '24, translating into a conversion 69%, and going forward, we aim to achieve cash conversion in the 70% to 75% range. So this stable cash profile provides us flexibility, supporting investments and shareholder returns without overextending our balance sheet. And this brings us to free cash flow and capital allocation. In the period 2022 to 2024, we generated in total NOK 700 million in cash, and this reflects the strength of our underlying earnings and working capital profile. And most of this free cash flow has been used to reduce debt, which has been a priority for us, ensuring financial resilience. And net debt has now declined to around NOK 1 billion and leverage dropped from 11.2 to 1.4. And this puts us in a much stronger position, financially agile and well prepared to pursue future opportunities, whether that's organic growth, strategic acquisitions or returning capital to shareholders. So with a strong balance sheet and solid cash flow generation, we are shifting gears from strengthening our financial position to accelerating growth. So let's take a look at how we plan to drive that growth in the mid and long term. But let's start with the big picture. In the midterm, our growth will mainly come from fully tapping into the potential of our existing club portfolio. This includes new clubs that are already open, but still maturing and ramping up in performance. At the same time, we are preparing for the future. We have started to build a pipeline of new club openings. However, it's important to highlight that in the midterm, these openings are expected to be more or less profit-neutral. The real financial impact of these investments will show over the longer term. And when we look -- starting with the existing member portfolio. Because when we look at the performance across our portfolio, we see a large variation here illustrated by members per square meter, but it's not just about 1 single metric. No matter which performance metric we use, member numbers, club utilization, profitability, the performance distribution across our clubs are the same. And all clubs have room to grow, but the potential and the right measures to unlock it vary from club to club. So the key is diagnosis. So when we are working on lifting performance at a specific club, we have an extensive toolbox with proven measures to work with and these are tailored to the needs of each club. Some of the most important levers we use are enhancing the training products, both on the fitness floor and group training; upgrading premises, improving the look and feel of the club or renegotiating rents; and lastly, boosting the service level, ensuring a welcoming atmosphere and top-notch cleanliness. And I will now present some examples on how we use these measures for specific clubs. And one of the biggest opportunities we have for growth is within group training. Today, improving the group training offering is the main lever for lifting performance across the portfolio. In most clubs, it means from moving from good to great or even just fine-tuning an already fantastic offering. However, for some clubs, bigger changes are needed. And take our club, NK, in Stockholm, as an example. Previously, the group training product offering was weak with few classes and poor scheduling. And last year, we upgraded the club, added 2 flagship products, HIIT and indoor running. And we also expanded the schedule, offering more classes on popular concept. And the result is a massive increase in group training visits, up 140% compared to last year and is a clear proof that targeted improvements drive real impact. And looking at some of our busiest clubs. In these clubs, we don't need more demand, we need to increase capacity, especially on the fitness floor. And we achieved this by optimizing layout, fitting more equipment, improving flow, maximizing how each square meter is used, and this improves the perceived space at the club. And to increase capacity, we remove underutilized equipment and we add equipment where bottlenecks occur. And we also replace equipment that causes downtime. And one example is, here, it's Ryen, where we reorganized the fitness floor last fall. And by reorganizing the layout, we made room for 30 additional workstations, and as a result, we have already increased visits by 10% at the club that was perceived too crowded. So in our busiest clubs, smarter use of space directly translates into more members and strong financials. And for some few clubs, the challenge is the opposite. We have too much space. So when a club has more space than it needs or combined with an outdated look and feel, it drags on the member experience. Kokstad is a great example. We downsized the club by 40%, and at the same time, upgraded the premises, creating a more modern and welcoming environment. And this type of project improves both the member experience and the cost structure, making the club more competitive and profitable. So rightsizing a club is just as powerful as growing it. So stepping back to make sure that we put our efforts where they matter the most, we follow a structured, data-driven approach to club performance management. Based on external data and traffic population, we estimate untapped member potential for each club and cluster. We combine these estimates for further growth with our extensive performance management tool on club level. And this gives us a clear picture of what each club could achieve and help us pinpoint exactly where each club needs to improve. And finally, we translate those insights into tailored action plans. For every club, there is a clear strategy on how we lift performance, strengthen its role in the cluster and deliver results. And these plans are followed up on all levels, club, region and country, to ensure execution. So this disciplined approach ensures that we direct our resources to the right places and drive measurable improvements across the portfolio. And every decision we make is rooted in data, local insight and a clear understanding of the potential. So to summarize, all of our clubs have potential for improving the quality of the club, and thus, financial performance. But the right actions differ from club to club. And success comes from applying the right mix of initiatives based on clear diagnosis of each club's specific challenges divided into different categories. And each of these categories have a proven playbook, and choosing the right combination of measures is what drives results. So as we've shown, the existing club portfolio holds significant upside. We have a proven track record of unlocking value by working strategically on a club-by-club basis to drive performance improvements. And we know what works. And this chart illustrates our ambition. Today, we are delivering NOK 750 million in EBITDA from the existing portfolio. But continuing to optimize asset utilization across members per square meter, equipment and through cost efficiency, we see an additional NOK 350 million in upside. That brings us to our midterm EBITDA ambition of NOK 1.1 billion without having to open a single new cloud. So by seeing discipline in how we allocate CapEx and by focusing on high potential clubs, we're confident in our ability to reach this ambition in the coming years. And delivering on our strategy will not only ensure attractive profitability, but also enable strong and predictive free cash flow generation. We target a EBITDA margin of 30%, translating into a group EBIT margin of 15%. And this is a resilient and scalable margin structure, reflecting the strong operating leverage in our model and we are well on track to delivering on this for the current portfolio. For the EBITDA, we retain 75% as operating cash flow after deducting maintenance CapEx, which, after accounting for taxes and interest, implies a free cash flow conversion of around 55% before expansion. Our model is built to drive sustainable margins and cash flow and with discipline and operating strength at every level. And while our existing portfolio has significant growth potential, we also see strong opportunities to expand through new club openings. And looking at the map, you see where we are strongest, in Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen and Helsinki, but there are still white spots across the Nordics that we can strategically fill. And there are 3 ways we will expand. First, by filling out white spots in already strong clusters. This strengthens both our product offering and our market position by creating tighter and more convenient clusters for our members. Second, filling out white spots in emerging clusters where we currently have a limited footprint. And this allows us to reach more members and unlock synergies across locations. And third, expanding into new cities where we are not yet present. So this open up an entirely new market and further diversifies our footprint across the Nordics. And our expansion strategy is targeted and data-driven focusing on strengthening our market position where we're already strong, growing where we see a clear upside and entering new markets selectively to maximize long-term value. And let me walk you through how -- our approach to portfolio expansion. And as we've said before, we aim to open 8 to 12 new clubs a year, but we're not chasing volume. Our focus is firmly on quality, selecting only the most attractive opportunities with strong financial potential. We are currently building a robust pipeline of new clubs. And while the short-term financial impact is limited, these openings will be a key contributor to long-term growth. And when filling white spots, we look at both greenfields and acquisitions. Each case is assessed individually based on financial attractiveness and strategic fit, not just speed to market. And we're also expanding with 2 clearly positioned brands: SATS as the full service premium concept and Fresh Fitness as the flexible low-cost model. And this dual brand approach allows us to target different customer segments and gives us greater flexibility in terms of location and club format. Geographically, we will continue to grow across all Nordic markets, focusing on regions where we see strong demand and cluster potential. So to ensure capital discipline, all investments are guided by clear KPIs measuring both short-term contribution and long-term impact on group financials. And looking at the economics around a new club that we open. On average, we invest around NOK 7 million to NOK 8 million on our own books when opening a new club. And new clubs are expected to reach mature EBITDA levels in line with our current portfolio average, meaning that they contribute meaningfully to group profitability once they are ramped up. From an operational perspective, it takes a club between 8 to 12 months to break even on club EBITDA level, while the payback of the investment is around 3 years. And our existing clubs are typically profitable with 1 member per square meter, which is a good rule of thumb for new clubs as well. So in short, our new clubs are designed, launched and scaled with a proven economic model delivering solid returns, predictable ramp-up and long-term profitability in line with the broader portfolio. So to bring together the full picture of our long-term EBITDA ambition. While growing the existing club portfolio is what will drive further financial improvement in the midterm, expanding the club portfolio will drive significant growth in the long run. The expected financial impact of club expansion depends on the -- to the extent of club openings in the coming years, but we expect it to be profit-neutral in the midterm. But in addition to expanding the club portfolio, there is an upside potential in growing with products and services in segments, which are adjacent to our current offering. And together, these initiatives will support further EBITDA growth beyond the NOK 1.1 billion mark. So our current delivery builds the base and the platform that we have established position us for continued growth well into the future. And just to reiterate what we have communicated previously, we have a clear plan for disciplined capital deployment. We will continue to invest 5% of revenues in our existing club portfolio as well as IT infrastructure in order to maintain the quality of our offering and tapping into further growth potential in the existing portfolio. We will maintain our target leverage of 1.5 to 2x net debt-to-EBITDA. And we expect a new club expansion of 8 to 12 new clubs yearly, but only if financially attractive opportunities are available. And lastly, we will distribute at least 50% of net profit to our shareholders through periodic share buybacks and semiannual dividends. So to close this section, let's revisit the strategic road map and where we go from here. Our value creation has been successful, clear and consistent. But more importantly, it remains relevant and scalable and we will continue along the same path in the coming period. And starting from the bottom, midterm, we will continue to grow a number of members per club through keeping our members active and happy primarily driven by our product offering. We will continue to grow the average revenue per member through our pricing strategy, which is strongly linked to our product offering as well as further developing personal training, physiotherapy and retail offerings. And we will continue to manage costs with strict discipline, both club costs and overhead, ensuring high drop-through of incremental revenues. And we have already started building for the long term through building a pipeline of new club openings, which will come into effect in a couple of years. And on top of that, there is further potential in expanding our offering in adjacent products and services where we can leverage our brand to take a strong position. So in short, our value creation strategy is working and it's scalable. And we are driving strong financial performance today while positioning the company for long-term growth and resilience. With that, I will have Sondre join me.

Thank you, Cecilie, and Ellen and Gaute. This is where we started the presentation earlier today, going through the growing Nordic fitness market, our superior position in that market and our superior product offering to our members in the market. Gaute went through our technology and data capabilities and how that is enabling us to take the right decisions going forward. And the sum of these factors will drive the financial delivery in the years to come, as Cecilie have just pointed out. So we believe we have a clear strategic direction going forward. We have a clear plan. It's not very different from the plan we've been following the last couple of 2 years. And we are, as a management team, very committed to deliver on it as we have consistently done since the Capital Markets Day in 2022, and I hope that this presentation today is proving that. So we are super excited about the journey ahead of us. I hope that it also comes through that we really love what we do, we love working in this company and giving this product to our members and also to use the product ourselves. So we conclude the presentation there. We will now do a Q&A, and then we will have lunch being served after a Q&A session. Thank you. And I think we'll do Q&A, I just -- you can address ask questions, and we have a microphone [ moving ] around.

Yes. So we'll take questions both through the webcast interface and from the physical audience. So please just raise your hands if you have any questions. Let's start with the webcast. Can you please elaborate on the differences between the markets you operate in?

Sure. It's 4 markets. And as we've shown on the slides, the profitability levels are different in the different markets, also our position. We are -- we have a different position in the different markets, most clubs in Norway and Sweden, fewer clubs in Finland and Denmark. And as Cecilie pointed out in her presentation, we believe that the profitability will and differences between the markets will reduce going forward that they will converge, so to say, to the group average in the different markets. And there is still a further upside in developing and growing our position in the Norwegian market. We have some clubs that we have really worked well with over the last couple of years that have reached, so to say, the mature level of profitability, but they will still grow in terms of revenue, so still deliver better profitability going forward. And then in the Swedish market, as also Cecilie elaborated on, we have a higher share of club that we've been opening over the last couple of years that is still having a short runway up to, so to say, mature profitability. So we think that the markets will harmonize and normalize more going forward. At the same time, the position is different. The competition is very strong in all markets, but somewhat different. So of course, there will be some differences between the market also in the years to come.

Hakon Nelson here from Kepler. You guided for at least 50% of profit to be distributed. Under what conditions would you consider increasing that payout or pulling back?

Well, I guess, the communication we have today shows that we intend to keep it at, at least 50%. This year, we will definitely distribute more than 50%. So it's all about what other opportunities are there for spending that available cash and that will be guiding. But we will keep at least 50%. And for '25, it will be higher.

Any other questions in the room? Saving all for the one-to-one meetings.

Question from the webcast. You stated a midterm EBITDA ambition. How do you define midterm?

Yes. That question we got quite a lot after the Capital Markets Day in 2022 as well. And I think we said back then, as we say now, that midterm is more than 2 years, less than 5 years. And it's now 2.5 years ago since the Capital Markets Day in 2022 and we're about to reach what we set as a midterm ambition or capacity back then. So I guess that's giving an indication of the time frame.

Any more questions? Yes?

Tomas here from Danske Bank. I have 2 questions actually for you. The first one, how many of the 18 new clubs that are new or less than 18 months old are in Sweden? And the second question, do you see an opportunity that Sweden will reach profitability similar to Norway in the next few years?

Well, most of the 18 are in Sweden. We have some in Finland as well and some few in Norway. I think I said that we expect profitability in the Swedish market to converge to the group average. And that's as far as we will go in sort of guiding the time frame.

Any other questions?

Good. Then we will round off.

Then we round off. Wish you a healthy and happy day, and lunch will be served soon. Thank you.

Thank you.