SBI Cards and Payment Services Limited ($SBICARD)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to SBI Cards and Payment Services Limited Q4 and FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Salila Pande, MD and CEO, SBI Cards. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you, Danish. A very good afternoon to everyone. On behalf of the Board and management of SBI Cards, I would like to welcome and thank you for joining [indiscernible]. I would like to extend our gratitude to all the stakeholders for their continued support and trust in the company. At SBI Card, we remain focused on supporting India's rapidly evolving digital payment landscape while further reinforcing our position as India's largest pure-play credit card player. The Indian economy continues to demonstrate resilience despite ongoing geopolitical uncertainties with real GDP projected to grow at around 6.9% for the financial year '26, '27. As per IMS, Indian economy is likely to remain a bright spot in an increasingly uncertain global environment with growth running at more than twice the global average supported by strong underlying fundamentals. At the same time, some moderation may be seen due to elevated energy prices and external headwinds. As per the recently released government data, India's retail inflation inched up to 3.4% year-on-year in March from 3.21% in February. Over the past few years, India's digital payment ecosystem has witnessed rapid transformation. Digital transactions are becoming an integral part of every payments supported by growing digital infrastructure supportive regulatory initiatives and a thriving fintech ecosystem. The shift has recasted customer behavior with payments becoming more frequent, smaller in terms of ticket size and increasingly integrated with credit channels. Division transactions have grown almost 11x between 2021 to 2025 with UPI accounting for almost 80% of overall digital transactions. Within this evolving payment landscape, credit costs continue to play a significant role, facilitating a rewarding simple, safe and seamless payments experience. According to [indiscernible] March 2026 data, credit card spend during the year grew roughly 12% year-over-year to INR 23.62 trillion. The number of cards in force have crossed [ INR 118.6 ] million during this period, reflecting continued adoption across India's expanding days of aspirational customers. As an agile organization, we at SBI Card recognize these opportunities and are committed to capitalizing on them to fuel growth. We continue to strengthen our position as India's largest pure-play credit card player and second largest credit card issuer. As a customer-centric organization, we are focused on delivering seamless customer journeys, differentiated product offerings and personalized experiences. Hyperpersonalization continues to be a key strategic lever for us. During year, we enhanced the data-driven customer engagement capabilities, helping enhance customer lifetime value through the SBI Card Mobile and digital. Digital acquisition has gained momentum with SBI Card Sprint, a growing share of new account acquisitions has now initiated digitally, improving the lead and experience of customer awarding journey. During the year, we enhanced our product portfolio to meet evolving need of aspirational and textile customers. For instance, during the year, we launched several branded credit cards, such as [indiscernible] SBI Card, [indiscernible]. Hundreds of national and regional offers were rolled out across 4 key spend categories in partnership with reputed brands to increase spend and engagement. One of the key priorities during the year was to control and reduce credit cost. Our focus remains on maintaining portfolio resilience while supporting sustainable growth. We augmented our risk management framework enhanced policies, procedures, modest and analytical capabilities across areas, including underwriting, portfolio management, collections, fraud risk management and provisioning, while ensuring alignment with evolving regulatory expectations and industry best practices. We further strengthened our collections infrastructure, both digital and physical. The focus was encouraging customers to make timely repayments. In case of a difficulty, we supported the customers with financial hardship tools. Technology investments in artificial intelligence and machine learning are playing a key role in transforming our product development and service delivery. From optimizing internal processes, attaining insights into customers are and references, upskilling employees to risk management framework, among others, we are poised to harness full potential of these advancements in financial year '27. Our ESG approach is based on 4 cornerstones of our commitment to a sustainable future, social posterity, building trust, impactful integrity and climate action. This financial year, we also declared an interim dividend of INR 2.50 per equity share, enhancing shareholder value. As regards to business performance in Q4 and for the whole year, the results trajectory is well in line with what we had expected and conveyed during the year. Let me share some key metrics. As per RBI March 2026 data, we continue to be the second largest credit card issuer in the country with cards in force market share of 18.6%. During the quarter, we added 17,000 new accounts while maintaining a strong focus on quality-led acquisition. Our digital onboarding platform, SBI Card Sprint continues to deliver encouraging results by enabling fast and seamless customer acquisition. In terms of the new sourcing mix, our shares from open market and bank channels in FY '26 stands at 54% and 46%, respectively. As for RBI's 2026 data, our spend market share has further grown to 18.1% in financial year '26. Overall spend in Q4 FY '26 exceeded INR 1.15 trillion with a strong 31% growth Y-o-Y. During FY '26, overall spends were $12.3 trillion, setting a new benchmark. Retail spent witnessed steady growth driven by rising adoption of digital payments and ongoing expansion of payment ecosystem. In Q4 of FY '26, [indiscernible] INR 89,786 crores with 13% growth Y-o-Y. During FY '26, retail spend reached the highest ever level of over INR 3.54 trillion with a 15% growth Y-o-Y. 30-day retail spend at the rate continues to be healthy at over 52% in Q4 of FY '26. During the quarter, we have seen both momentum across both post and online channels. Key spend categories that particularly performed well include consumer durables, furnishing and hardware, apparel and jewelry, travel and entertainment, among others. Online expense contributed 62.5% of the total retail expense of FY '26. UPI on credit card usage continued to gain momentum, witnessing 10% growth in Q4 of FY '26 compared to Q3. Department stores and [indiscernible] utilities, fuel, apparel and restaurants continue to be among the top 5 categories for UPI spend. Additionally, the ability to use [indiscernible] credit cards through QR-based VI acceptance terminals is gaining traction, particularly in Tier 2 plus markets that are the highest UPI active cards in force and [indiscernible] adding to growth momentum. As regards to financial performance of the company during Q4 and FY '26, [indiscernible] revenue during Q4 was INR 5,187 crores with 7% growth Y-o-Y. Total revenue for FY '26 was INR 20,708 crore, registering 11% growth Y-o-Y. Increased spend this year resulted in higher spend based income contributing to healthy revenue growth. With lower credit costs this quarter over the previous quarter, we delivered a profit after tax of INR 609 crores in Q4 with 14% growth Y-o-Y. For the financial year 2026, SBI Card achieved a profit after tax of INR 2,167 crores with a 13% growth Y-o-Y. During Q4 FY '26, our receivables were at INR 56,926 crores, around 2% growth Y-o-Y. The interest earning assets were 54% with revolver balance at 22% Revolve rates have been in the range of 22% to 24% over the last 2 years, and we expect this to have a slight downward bias in FY '27. We will continue to focus on building our EMI book. The cost of funds during Q4 was 6.4%, lower by 82 basis points Y-o-Y. For FY '26, it was 6.7%, lower by 71 basis points. The net interest margin for the quarter has improved to 11.1% versus 11% in Q3. For FY '26, it has improved to 11.2%, higher by 31 basis points Y-o-Y. We expect NIM to remain stable, though at risk from any significant increase in cost of funds as a result of uncertain macroeconomic conditions. In Q4 FY '26, the OpEx has been lower compared to the previous quarter, owing to lower spend-based costs. However, for FY '26, the OpEx was 22% higher Y-o-Y on account of higher corporate spend. The cost-to-income ratio for Q4 was 57.2% and 55.3% for FY '26. The cost-to-income ratio was impacted by higher operating expense on account of higher corporate spend. In terms of the asset quality, our gross credit cost has improved by 55 basis points quarter-over-quarter to 7.7%, continuing with the reducing trend as witnessed in the last 2 quarters as well. GNPA for the quarter was reduced by 46 basis points quarter-over-quarter to 2.41%. The NPA stock has reduced by INR 268 crores quarter-over-quarter and INR 348 crores Y-o-Y to INR 1,370 crores. Stage 2 balance with this portfolio at significant increase in credit risk has reduced by INR 149 crores quarter-over-quarter and INR 711 crores Y-o-Y to INR 2,090 crores. SBI card delinquencies have continued to reduce in this quarter 2 as witnessed in the previous 6 quarters. Keeping in view the annual ECL model refresh and uncertainty due to geopolitical turmoil, we are retaining an overlay of INR 220 crores for ECL provision. Owing to strengthened underwriting standards, portfolio management and collections, asset quality continues to improve with better portfolio mix, reducing NPAs and portfolio delinquencies. We expect the credit cost to moderate further in FY '27. However, the rate of moderation in credit cost and asset quality will depend on the evolving geopolitical landscape and its impact on the macroeconomic factors and the unsecured lending ecosystem. We are vigilant and monitoring our portfolio for any likely impact of dynamic macroeconomic variables. At the same time, with adequate capital and provision buffer, we do not foresee any significant impact in the coming quarter. Our capital adequacy ratio for Q4 was strong at a comfortable level of 25.5% ROA for Q4 was 3.6%, 29 bps higher Y-o-Y, while for FY '26, ROA was 3.2%, 11 bps higher Y-o-Y. The ROE was 15.6%, 8 bps higher Y-o-Y and 14.6% for FY '26, lower by 5 basis points Y-o-Y. As we close FY '26, we remain optimistic about the long-term trajectory of India's consumer credit and digital payments ecosystem. Looking ahead to FY '27, we are ready and well prepared with adequate buffers to pursue profitable growth in a disciplined manner. It is important to reiterate that we remain vigilant regarding the geopolitical and economic landscape and will adapt our strategy if warranted. With that, we are now happy to take questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] [indiscernible]

So my first question is regarding new account addition. Our new account addition has been significantly lower than, let's say, previous year. So how do you see and attribute it going forward?

So as [indiscernible], we had mentioned during our previous earnings call that we will target acquisition of INR 9 lakh to INR 1 million for the quarter, and we have ended this quarter with around INR 9.17 lakhs. So we are on track, and we have said that the growth will be calibrated. We look at the next quarter acquisition to be somewhere in the similar range and continue with the adding high-value, good quality customers, which ultimately add value to the overall financials of the company.

Okay. My second question is regarding cost-to-income ratio. This year, it is around, let's say, 57.2%, which is, let's say, 6% almost higher than previous year. How do you see this going forward?

So we expect the cost to income to be in the range of 55% to 58% for the next year as well.

Okay. Previously, it used to be around [indiscernible] what has changed into the company?

So the change has largely been on account of the corporate spend because the corporate spend this year have been way higher than what they were last year. And as you can see from the [indiscernible], there is a substantial increase in the corporate expense this year compared to the last year. They are more on the -- they basically add a few percentage points on the cost to income. Next year, since we start the growth will be a very BA kind of a growth. We don't expect, therefore, a very significant increase in the cost to income because of the corporate expense. And so it will largely be the BAU revenue and the cost line, which will determine the cost-to-income ratio.

Okay. And the magnitude of change is majorly due to employee cost addition? Or there is some another element of [indiscernible]

No, no, no. So there's -- it's not employee cost. There is normally a pass back involved in the corporate spend on account of which the cost was higher and that is the reason. Overall, the business is profitable, but the margins are comparatively thinner, which basically boosts both on the cost and the income side. And that is why the cost to income is higher. It's not because of the employee growth.

Okay. And any take on the card closure? .

Card closure? [indiscernible]

Yes.

No. I think we are doing -- in fact, we are at par or in fact, doing better than the industry. And I would also like to add that if we look at the way that we have been very extensively on capital engagement which has also benefited us in terms of ensuring that the customers are retained, and that is also witnessed by the improvement that we have seen our market share in terms of the transaction numbers like. So significant there. I would say that we are -- if anything, at par or maybe better than the industry overall.

The next question comes from the line of Piran Engineer from CLSA.

Congratulations on the strong improvement in asset quality. I have a couple of questions to ask probably more industry related, but also applies to you. Now just firstly, in terms of growth, how should we think about cuts in force growth now slipping to mid-single digits from double digits over the last couple of years? It's [indiscernible] the industry. Is it simply put just underwriting tightening and as those filters are losing growth pick back up? Is it just that applications itself are slowing down at the other end?

So applications are definitely not slowing down. Your first point was correct. Overall, I think the issuers are -- had seen in the last couple of years back, some asset quality issues. So there is more tightening, which has happened on the underwriting side. And that overall, it is also being seen that to a very large extent, very few new customers are being brought into the fold. It's normally the existing customers, credit-tested customers who are getting new cards issued by another new issue. So yes, there is a little bit of a caution, which has resulted in comparatively muted growth in the industry.

So then it's fair to say that out of this [indiscernible] customers, we acquire every quarter, bulk of them are existing to credit card. Very few would be new to credit card as such.

Not in our case, because see, we also have a strong banca channel where we have visibility over customers who may be new to credit or new to credit card and we also have separate underwriting models for them on which we work and we bring unfold as well.

Okay. So ma'am, what was the split fee then just a ballpark split between new to credit card and existing to credit card?

So Piran, we usually don't give that, but open market numbers are primarily credit-tested customers. It is only in Banca where we have view to the customer statements and debits and credits that we look at NTC and TCC. As of now, primarily, we are looking at TCC there also, okay? So you can fairly estimate that anywhere between 20% to 30% customers, which we get from Banca as of now are NDC or TCC

My second question just on revolvers. Now you all have been highlighting this for the past couple of quarters that revolver is on a downward bias, and I understand it's hard to predict what an exact number would be, let's say, 4 quarters later. But let's say, 22 becomes 19 or 20 hypothetically. What's the game plan here really? Do we start massively cutting our reward points, et cetera, for everyone? Do we have the revolver fee further from 3.75% to 4%? My question is, how do we protect profitability in a hypothetical scenario where revolver, say, all to 20 or below?

So Piran, we have not indicated a specific number as to where it's going to go, okay? There will be a downward bias. We are looking at our portfolios very carefully. Last 2 years acquisition, as we have been saying, we have been selective. So they are showing a lower revolving behavior. However, first attempt that we will do is to compensate it through the installment lending portfolios rather than cutting a rewards program or doing something else, you already have mentioned 2 or 2 ideas, but there are multiple such things that can be done. But whenever we do that, one has to keep an eye that engaged spending customer should not get negatively impacted. So there are multiple ways and means to balance these and we will look at that. But as I stated, installment spend to lend, the installment lending would be our first chosen preference, and we would like to invest heavily there to get the asset build up there.

Got it. Got it. And just one last -- I'll squeeze in one last question for Rashmi. How do we think about cost of fund here on? It is actually quite good that cost of funds declined in an environment where [indiscernible] so getting into FY '27, what's the outlook?

I don't think -- it's a little too early for me to give you any guidance on the cost of funds, given that we are still not sure as to the RBI stance given the geopolitical tensions and the uncertainties in the environment. Obviously, needless to say, we will continue to manage our portfolio well, keep looking at opportunities to reduce costs in all possible manners. But I think it's too early for me to give you any kind of an indication for the full year. .

Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible]

So I just follow up on the cost from Q1. How about next 1 to 2 quarters? Is there still kind of downward repricing left on our cost of funds? Can you still decline?

Sorry, can you repeat the question? Not very clear.

Yes. On the cost of funds, just for the next 1 to 2 quarters, do we still have room to price down our borrowings so that the cost of fund has still declined?

So we -- as we've stated earlier as well that our borrowings do reprice anywhere in a 60- to 90-day bucket. So yes, there will be some repricing that will happen over the next quarter also, yes. Is your question that -- will the repricing help us in a declining cost of funds? Is that your question?

Yes.

Yes. Yes. I don't know about that right now. That's what I said earlier in the -- an answer to the earlier question as well, it all depends upon where we see the rates given the macro environment. .

I see. And just a chemical one. Just can you help me understand what the denominator for your total margin of a daily average basis or per [indiscernible] end average basis because it's a bit confusing given the loan book is [indiscernible] quarter-on-quarter margin up 5 years.

So the NIM at the cost of funds that you see in the table is on a 13-point average though separately, we do give out a daily average cost of funds, but the NIM that we published is on a 13-point average.

And last one is on the other income. The [indiscernible], which used to be 100 offers. I'm just wondering is there any [indiscernible]?

Your voice is not clear. [indiscernible]

Yes. Well, our income is up 60% year-on-year. [indiscernible]

So this year in the other income, there have been some one-offs as well, which we have disclosed in the exchange filing, on account of certain provision release and the provision around the tax matter where that number has been added to the other income for FY '26. And therefore, when you look at year-on-year, that number is higher and that number is higher for this quarter year-on-year.

Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] from MLP.

Three questions from my side. Firstly, if I [indiscernible] 30% of your borrowings were linked to [indiscernible]. Is that still the case?

That's right, yes. [indiscernible]

Understood. Understood. So assuming that the rate stays here, there's no more movement from me. What do you expect, let's say, from [indiscernible] the perspective, where do your cost of fund [indiscernible]

[indiscernible]

Second question, so just to stress a bit on margins, while you maintained NIMs would remain stable. If I look at 1 percentage point of revolver mix, why we don't know what is the mix change that will happen in FY '27. But assuming even if there is a 1 percentage point up -- there is -- and that gets converted into EMI. There is still a 25, 27 basis points sort of hit on the interest income line or on a margin. So how do [indiscernible] if cost of funds remains stable, then what is the other offset that we are looking at when we say the margin [indiscernible]

You are right because revolvers are at a much higher rate and 1% decline in revolver has to be compensated, obviously, with a larger mix on the installment lending side, you're absolutely right. So maybe we will not be able to take care of it fully, but try to compensate it in some other matters or manner. There are basic means as was being discussed 2 questions back to be able to -- whether we look at some other fee income so or some other scenarios. But this kept aside -- as of now, we look -- see a downward trend in the revolvers. But as the things start improving, okay? And we have seen that our credit card is credit cost is on a double or trajectory as the things start improving, we will look at certain pilots or certain experiments with the segments which are marginal in nature to be able to see where we can build the asset.

That's helpful. My second question is with respect to cost to income. Now that you've clarified that the other income has a couple of one-offs, which I could read from most accounts. The adjusted cost to income for this quarter is surprisingly typically in fourth quarter, we see a lot of improvement versus 3Q because 3Q has a festive base. But in this quarter, we saw the cost-to-income move up 260 for the next year, while we're guiding 55 to 58, how confident are we to be at the lower end of this guidance versus behind with this guidance?

Yes, you're right that this particular quarter had a one-off, which obviously added to the denominator and therefore, if adjusted for that, the cost to income would go up. But given the -- I mean, as of now, as we look internally, as you look at FY '27, there are various initiatives on to ensure that the expense lines are contained. As Girish and [indiscernible] mentioned earlier, there are initiatives on to ensure that we actually book a higher revenue line items, both on the interest income and the fee income. And given all of that, we do think that this number should stay between 55% to 58%.

Okay. Got it. And given that corporate would be in the base largely, why is it still elevated? Because in this quarter, this year, we saw that corporate spends were high and hence, probably the cost-to-income went up. But next year, I would have assumed that since that is in the base, there would be some improvement in cost to income.

So the fact that already in the base would mean that the variation in the cost to income between this year and next year will not be very high. But because they are part of our business and therefore, contributing both on the numerator and the denominator will keep the natural metric high. You won't see a big jump the way you saw between last year and this year.

Actually, if you go 2 years back, you saw a very -- it used to be broadly slightly higher than actually present number. So it saw a very big decline a drop when the corporate spend went off.

Okay. So this is just the normalization with cost -- with corporate spend [indiscernible]

[indiscernible]

Our next question comes from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Tara Capital.

A couple of questions. Probably this is discussed earlier on the call also. So our receivables growth is now 2% year-on-year. And given the war situation and given that even other banks in their commentary, we're not sounding very optimistic on credit card growth? Or to put it in other words, they were more bullish and other segments than cards. So how do you view your near-term growth because of uncertainties and also because of lack of testing season growth is likely to remain subdued in the near term, right, 1 to 2 quarters, and then we look up for the festive -- we look forward to the festive pickup. Is that the correct assessment?

So Mahrukh, right now, we are not giving any guidance on asset growth. And if you recall in the last earnings call, we had said that the asset growth will follow card acquisition growth. So we are building on card acquisition, and we expect that the asset growth will follow the card acquisition growth. Apart from that, as far as the war situation is concerned, I would say we are keeping a very -- but we have not -- as such, we have been cautious. So there's nothing additional in terms of putting the brakes or reducing the growth that we are working on. Having said that, we will continue to monitor the position and take action, corrective actions that need be. But I would not -- we are not giving any guidance on the asset growth.

Got it. And regarding the provision reversal, so we had INR 47 crores of credit cost reversal, right? And we've seen that in the past few quarters as well. you have write-offs, which are possibly coming down and then you are seeing a reversal of provision. Is that likely to continue because it's very difficult to forecast that number, right? It's either -- it's been 0 or negative for at some time.

So Mahrukh, these numbers as actually we wrote back INR 47 crores, but as we mentioned, INR 20 crores of management overlays being retained. To a very large extent, the overall ECL number is a function of my stocks in Stage 2, Stage 3 and the provision rate. And as we have shown in our financial results also Stage 2, Stage 3 stocks have gone down substantially on account of which we have been a small write-back of INR 47 crores. but we are still holding buffers because to be ready and resilient for any, I would say, steps which can have come in the environment because of the geopolitical risk. Ultimately, it's the model which informs how we are retaining the ECL provision.

Next question comes from the line of Rohan M. from Equirus Securities.

[indiscernible] with INR 220 crores of additional provisions that we are carrying the INR 100 crores increase that happened during the quarter, is it on account of the ECL refresh? Or have you made any incremental provisions there?

Whatever provisions we are making, it is not because of the asset quality at all. You can see our Stage 2, Stage 3 is going down. We are selecting about underwriting. So there is no additional provision for that asset quality. However, because of the ECL model is still under the phrase. And our -- you can mentioned in the last question, the geopolitical environment is also asserted. So whatever we see in modern provisions are giving [indiscernible] We have kept around INR 100 crores for that future also to take anything which is uncertain as [indiscernible]

So what I was trying to understand was this addition INR 100 crores increase that has happened in this quarter on the management overlay [indiscernible]

Yes, basically.

Or is it a release of the provision from the ECL refresh?

No, no, no. Every proposition is from the P&L.

Okay. Okay. So the core -- if you are not increasing the management overlay, then the reported provision would have been lower by INR 100 crores.

Correct. Correct. Yes, [indiscernible]

Secondly, on the slippages number. If you can quantify, what was it for 4Q versus 3Q?

See, we don't declare any [indiscernible]. But you can see from the Stage 3 is stock has reduced by INR 268 crores. So that the [indiscernible] are also going here into trajectory quarter report.

And just on the one-offs that happened this quarter, how have they been accounted for in the P&L which line item are impacting and if you can just help me [indiscernible]

About the [indiscernible] -- sorry, this one-off are you talking about?

The PIDS and GST.

Okay. So the PIDS actually is -- was reduced from the expenses because it was a provision that we were carrying along with the expenses and expense didn't happen or the payment didn't happen. It has been reduced from the expenses. The GST is a part of the other income line.

Okay. Got it. And what was this PIDS [indiscernible]

Our next question comes from the line of Shubhranshu Mishra from PhillipCapital.

So a couple of questions. The first one is on the open market, both in terms of set as well as new sourcing, we are much above 50% now. So this would also reflect on our OpEx and the while we talk about banks, the open market is weighing on assets as well as new sourcing so as you can speak about that. Second is that out of the MI pool, how many guys -- what is the percentage of TL on CC. That is my second question. And third is that we have barely grown in terms of our bottom line by around 13%, and yet we are giving out a dividend, was that necessary we could have possibly not given a dividend and retain it and deployed it back into the business?

So I will try and I'll give you the answer for the first and second part before I give it to [indiscernible] for the third. Okay. So the -- on the bank and open market, the strategy has been consistently that we would try and do 50-50 from both the channels. And if possible, 55 from Banca and 45 from open market, that's the range that we would look at. In the last 1 year, we have been broadly in the same range. However, what our tie-ups with some of the digital partners like phone pay, Flipkart, [indiscernible], some of these partners numbers are working in a very good direction. And they give a flip up to the overall open market numbers. So that's why you see some amount of shift in the favor of open market but on a consistent long-term basis, our strategy is to remain 50% to 55% Banca and 45% to 50% open market. That is the part first one. Secondly, on the installment lending portfolio, we have never given the breakup of PLCC However, there are 3 kind of installment lending are there in the book. One is, as you said, the second is what we call installment at the point of sale itself and people convert at the point of sale while purchasing electronic growth or others. And the third part is before the payment due date, a whole lot of people convert their outstandings into installments. So that is -- these 3 constitute the overall book on the installment of the dividend part [indiscernible]

[indiscernible] want to giving dividend, I think shareholders and investors are very critical and important stakeholders for the company and they need to be rewarded for their capital. and the belief in the trust that they put in the company. And if we don't have any asset quality issues. We don't have any capital adequacy issues. We are underleveraged actually, if you look at that. So I would say that [indiscernible] per share is a pretty decent dividend on a return, which is due to the stakeholders. And accordingly, that has been -- the view has been taken by the Board to provide it to the stakeholders.

The [indiscernible] is really great on the app. That's just a comment on a question. [indiscernible]

[indiscernible] You should check our website also. Now that is fewer people are coming there, but we've revamped that also completely.

Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible]

I just wanted to understand how rent has a spend spending category is looming? And how much impact does it have on the total spend?

So rent as a category used to be very large 2 years back, we started leaving a face on it. For us, rental spend is hardly -- it's a very low spending category as of now, okay? So there is no impact on us of any kind. In fact, when guidelines have come in that the third-party websites or apps, should do the KYC for the landlord and without that, they should not allow the [indiscernible]. By that time, we had -- our rental payments were already fairly low. So all the growth that you see is actually despite rental degrowing to a large degree.

Our next question comes from the line of Anuj Singla from JPMorgan.

So first question is on the receivable growth. Obviously, we have seen [indiscernible] but if I recall, we have been flagging that we will see an increase in the new card acquisition and receivable growth will follow. So should we see that FY '27, the new card acquisition and the receivable growth acceleration only in FY '28, is that the scenario we should be looking at?

So Anuj, right now, as I mentioned earlier also, I would not give any guidance on the asset growth. We continue to stick with what we had said earlier that we are working on the card acquisition. The guidance is around [indiscernible] in a quarter. And as you mentioned, that will lead to us growth in the coming days right now, not giving any guidance on the numbers. .

Fair enough. Fair enough. And secondly, on the asset mix, while revolver has been trending down for the past many quarters, one offset was supposed to be EMI. And I think it has talked about in the past that there have been various initiatives to incentivized conversion to EMI. But when I look at this quarter, even EMI has been pretty weak. So can you talk about the trends there? And should we -- is that one of the offsets we should be looking for towards offsetting the lower revolver in FY '27 or ''28?

So Anuj, you're right. What happens is during the festival season, a whole lot of installment lending at the point of sale happens. So in the month September or October, a large quantity of spends, which happened during the festival period gets converted into installment. And most of these installments because the average tenure is around 7.5, 8 months. So either people pick up 6 months, 9 months or 12-month tenors. So what happens is, by the end of February, March, the first lot of 6 months tenure case come up for full completion. So that is why you see a decline on the installment asset, but this is typically a trend over years and it gets built up. It is a continuous trade will and we have to continue to get new asset buildup there, but that is the nature of the business. So some -- as I stated earlier, some amount of revolve, we would be able to offset with installment lending, not fully, we will have to see other mechanisms to be able to balance and look at income sources.

So Girish, a follow-up on that. When I look at the Y-o-Y trend, which will take care of the seasonality, which you spoke about, there also it's declined from 35% to 32%, right? So I'm assuming that if you include the festive seasonality in both the years, still we should have seen a pull or improving performance even that's not the case. So just trying to understand if there's something beyond initial...

No, no. When we looked at the data, this was one part. Second part was there was a -- year-on-year, there was some impact of we were doing apple offer last year. This year, we were -- for the last quarter, it was not there. So there was some amount of impact of some of those things. But these are, I would say, transient and can be taken care in the next 3 to 6 months. .

Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] from 3P Investment Managers.

Just a couple of them [indiscernible]. Your recoveries have shown pretty good traction now nearing almost INR 190 crores. So could you give a sense of how large or perhaps written-off book is where you expect still sizable, maybe 10% to 15% recoveries to happen?

So we don't disclose the [indiscernible] portfolio that we have. But yes, we have intensified efforts on recovery in terms of the written of tools, and that is the benefits for us.

But do you expect this number to keep inching up from this 190 level?

So it will be somewhere in a similar range because now we are seeing a downward trajectory in terms of the write-offs as well, but the efforts will continue to recover the most.

All right. Understood. And [indiscernible] you go for this quarter.

[indiscernible]

During the quarter, 70%.

70% was salary?

Yes.

So actually, like if I look at the last 2 quarters, I think, I mean last quarter, 72%, this quarter was 70%, like you used to -- this is on the salary side. I think your self-employed used to be in that 40%, 50% range. So and tend to increase sourcing in the self-employed segment or it's [indiscernible] to slow down?

As from the beginning of the call, we are mentioning that we were quite selective in our selection of the customer into our asset quality or other portfolio management. So we are mindful while selecting the customer and out-boarding for the card. So in the last quarter, it was shown that no auction from the [indiscernible] customer and good customer app from the [indiscernible]. So it is not that we are declining sell into that customer. But whatever good customers [indiscernible]

We'll take the last question from the line of Atul Kumar from Salvation Capital.

The question was on the side of trade costs. So what kind of moderation can be expected I mean given that credit costs have been higher for some time? And related to that, in terms of ROEs, at one point of time, we used to have [indiscernible] a moderation to 3%, 3.5%. So on that side, I'd like [indiscernible]

So Atul, although we are not giving any guidance in terms of the credit cost numbers right now, but we will continue to see moderation in terms of the credit cost which is very evident from the -- if you look at the stocks also, we are seeing continuous reduction in our Stage 3 and Stage 2 stocks. So accordingly, the credit costs will continue to trend downwards. On the ROE, again, we have said in the prior earnings calls as well that we are aiming towards 4% to 4.5% of ROE in the medium term. And that is achievable, and we are working towards it.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Salila Pande for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Danish. I would like to sincerely thank shareholders customers, partners and employees for installing their trust, support and confidence in the company. Thank you once again and wishing all a successful financial year 2026.

Thank you, ma'am. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of SBI Cards and Payment Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.