Siemens Energy AG (ENR.DE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

So good morning, everybody and also good afternoon to everybody on the webcast who might be joining us from somewhere else around the world because just last week on Friday, we had our Q4 conference call from Berlin. And now today, we are standing here in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I'm really happy to have so many people here in the room and hopefully, a lot of you following us online. So before we actually start getting into our Capital Market Day, let me just give you a quick note that on Page 2 on all the presentations, which we uploaded just about 2 hours before, you have the information on our forward-looking statements. So please take care to reading through that as we're going to have some information we might be forward-looking. Now let me just quickly go with you through the agenda of today. I think it's going to be a very exciting day. So we're going to start first with Christian and Maria presenting the CEO and CFO presentation and following there with the Q&A. Afterwards, we are really excited to have a panel discussion, where we're going to have Chad Zamarin from Williams, Alan Duong from Meta and Matthew Gardner from Dominion joining Christian on stage. Going to have a short break afterwards before we're going to go into the business area presentation, which will start with Karim Amin on Gas Services and Tim Holt on Grid Technologies, followed by a quick Q&A. Afterwards, we're going to continue with the BAs with Vinod Philip talking about Siemens Gamesa, and then Anne-Laure Chammard talking about transformation of industry followed by Q&A before we're actually going to then close the CMD, where Christian is going to be coming up on stage again. So for now, I want to welcome Christian, our President and CEO of Siemens Energy here on stage for the first presentation. [Presentation]

Good morning, and a very warm welcome from my side to our Capital Market Day 2025. It's great to see so many people of you here in the room, and thanks to everybody who follows us online. As Tobias just has said, we have presented last week already our results from last year and also give or gave our upgraded targets for the short and midterm. Today, it's very much also providing you the background of the different businesses behind it and the details on how we want to get there and to achieve this. And I'm obviously very happy also to hear the voices of our customers. You have just heard some voices and really the trust what we received from them over the last years is fantastic, and I'm very, very grateful for that. For us, this trust also converts in an obligation on how can we get better every day. How can we make sure that we help our customers to build this sustainable or more reliable or more resilient energy infrastructure. And I want to talk today also with you about what are the measures behind it. And before we do that and go into the details, I want to talk about safety. And safety is for us, obviously -- Safety is one of the most -- Okay, my slides here don't operate correctly, but you may want to check that, please. And safety is for us -- I just have to check, is there no slides or 1 slide on? Okay. And safety is for us, obviously, a key element really to run the company. And I have to say, if I look back over the last years, I'm very proud of what the Siemens Energy team has been doing. We have achieved a 30% reduction in our total injury rate over the last 3 years. but also very clear to be leading in the industry more needs to be done. And it's obviously to elevate our safety performance. We push very much in Siemens Energy, our zero-harm framework. And this gives indications, principles, behaviors, rules to our people to make sure that safety performance gets better every day. And as we are executing through this, we will see, obviously, the safety behavior improving. I just have to ask, are the questions -- Tim, are the slides online or not?

Working on it.

Okay. So I will talk -- continue to talk while the guys fix the presentation. Sorry for that. And the one thing I want to underline, we are always working in our business in a hazardous environment. So safety hazard is always going to be around us. And in that regard, it is important that in a growing organization like ours, we build a culture where everybody looks after each other and acts immediately if a hazard is identified. And if the colleagues make it work, I would like to share with you a bit the impressions of Monique. Monique is a field service engineer from our organization here in the U.S. and she joined us from outside 2.5 years ago, and she is sharing her experiences when she joined the company. And now I have to ask the guys.

He's working on it.

Okay. Just maybe you Okay. That looks good. Very good. Here we go. Okay. Excellent. So let me share this from Monique and her impressions really when she joined the company. And we have no tone. I think that's a classic, right? I mean if you start... [Presentation]

Thank you. So that is what I want to see. That is what we want to see, right? I mean people look after each other, and I'm very grateful for all employees who display that behavior. And we will obviously continue to work on it to make sure that everywhere in our organization, this behavior is displayed and with this drive up the safety performance continuously. So let me come to the 2025 achievements. And last Friday, as Tobias said, we have presented our results from 2025, gave also our upgraded short and midterm targets. And I want to be relatively short on the look back, but I want to highlight a couple of points before we start to look forward on how we are doing all the things. I have to say I'm very proud of the team at Siemens Energy. We delivered on all targets which we gave ourselves for 2025. And we delivered that in an environment of geopolitical challenges and constrained supply chain. And we received 150 -- sorry, 15% revenue growth in last fiscal year, a 500 basis points margin improvement. And these achievements were based on really disciplined execution and operational excellence. We grew our backlog to EUR 138 billion with improved backlog margins, and that is a strong foundation for the continuous expansion of margins and profitability on the way forward. I have started my presentation with some statements from our customers. And their trust is the basis for our improvements. And it is important that everybody at Siemens Energy really embraces this customer focus. Over the last years, we have been continuously improving our Net Promoter Score. And in fiscal year 2025, we improved it by another 8 points, and that is an excellent level. But nevertheless, it will continue to be our priority to drive this customer focus in our organization. It was also a sign of confidence that Standard & Poor's lifted their credit rating outlook by 2 notches from negative to positive. And the 200% share price increase is probably the strongest sign of the regained trust in Siemens Energy. And I would like to thank all our shareholders for that trust into our company. We are well aware that this comes with expectations, expectations to continue to elevate our performance and continuing with profitable growth, driving operational excellence and expanding our margins. And starting from a successful 2025, I would like to share with you how we are directing our organization on this journey. We at Siemens Energy are all driven by our purpose. We energize society and by our vision to become the most valued energy technology company. And on this journey, we are guided by our North Star, which I want to outline for you. This North Star provides 5 key principles alongside which we structure our strategic measures. And it gives us a direction when we take decisions and it's an indication for you on where do we want to develop the company in the mid and long term. It also gives you an indication what are the indicators to look after, whether we are on track on this journey or not. And we are a company with an electricity DNA since the days of Werner von Siemens. We are convinced that the electricity and electrification markets provide us with plenty of opportunities to grow the company profitably. And we aspire to benefit from this market from a leading market position. And that is an important base to, at the end, drive the financial performance day after day after day in our organization. And this period of growth, which we have at the moment is also a fantastic opportunity to push operational excellence and continuously work on the margin expansion, also by rigorously challenging our cost structures. And we do all of this to best serve our customers. And this is why I showed also the NPS, and we will continue to work on it and push it further to help them to build a resilient energy infrastructure. And this North Star gives us a framework of what to focus on, where to allocate our capital and what is really the business structure we should give ourselves. Today, not all our business are there. We are very well aware of that, but the ambition level is defined. And at the end, we want to be excellent in managing business and working on us to become better every day. To achieve our North Star, one essential precondition is the market we operate in. And to be crystal clear, we are in the right market. We see substantial growth in electricity demand, which is happening now. Electricity grows faster than GDP. It grows roughly double the speed of the energy growth. And this is not a short-term situation. That is a structural shift what we're seeing. Demand will continue to grow at a sustained rate, increasing by 50 -- roughly 50% over the next decade and doubling until 2050. This growth is driven by resilient long-term trends. Population growth. Until 2050, we expect 2.3 billion more gaining access to electricity. Electrification, around 1.5 billion electric vehicles are expected to be on the streets in 2050 compared to 50 million today. And on top of this, AI and data centers at a powerful upside. Power demand for data centers is expected to triple or to more than triple in the next 10 years. And while the power demand for data centers is only a fraction of the electricity market, it offers a fantastic opportunity for us as a company. And these trends come also along with challenges. But for us, it's really now an opportunity together with our customers to shape new solutions for it and to grow into this market. Siemens Energy is really positioned at the heart of this transformation, ready to capture the benefits of this electricity growth and electrification market. The scale of the investment, which we have already seen in power generation and grid infrastructure in the -- also energy efficiency measures is unprecedented, and our portfolio is well aligned up with that. And as you will see in the presentation of the different business areas, this is not just about the portfolio. It's about the ability to deliver, building a capacity which helps our customers to build and ramp up new factories, to have the people available who can execute. And we are confident that gas is here to stay, that will be needed to ensure reliable and affordable electricity supply. And a few years ago, we had to defend why we stay in gas. Today, all the forecasts show that the elevated capacity of the annual growth in the gas turbine market is going to stay until 2035. What it means for us is we are building a bigger fleet such that the associated services will create value well into the 2040s. We also have seen over the last years that the expansion and stabilization of grids is fueling the demand for our grid technologies businesses. Transmission networks are expected to double by 2035. And it's not just about adding capacity. It's also about replacing aging infrastructure. 80% of today's installed transformers will reach retirement age in the next decade. And we believe that investment cycle into the grid infrastructure will continue with the electricity needs we have. Additionally, the ramp-up in renewables will go on. And it is creating strong growth opportunities for wind, but obviously also for transformation of industry or for grid technologies. And even though gas dominates at the moment, the discussion, growing -- we always have to be aware that the additions, the capacity additions in renewables is faster than conventional. And Siemens Energy is positioned in the center of this transformation, delivering technologies that power progress and resilience and provide more reliable energy solutions. And as we have shown with our quarter 4 results, we are raising the bar now, both for short-term and midterm targets because we are confident in our ability to deliver an even stronger performance in this positive market environment. We expect revenue growth to continue in the low teens through 2028. We expect a profit margin before special items from 14% to 16% in 2028. We are aware this ambitious target, but we also do it in the confidence of disciplined execution, the strength of our portfolio and the passion of our people for continuous improvement. Our commitment is clear, profitable growth, operational excellence and value creation for all stakeholders. I want to introduce you now on the way, how do we get from here today where we are, a successful 2025 to 2028. And I want to introduce you our strategy program, which is called Elevate. And Elevate helps us really to structure our strategic actions on the way forward and how do we also guide the organization around it. While I've shown you before the North Star, that is the more detailed structure over the next years, and we already have started last year on activities. You will reconcile it in the different examples I will give to you to execute this strategy program. And our strategy program, Elevate is structured around 3 different pillars. First of all, building the transforming energy world. And that is about the capacity and the portfolio needed to deliver to our customers. The second point is about strengthening the resilience in this transforming environment in which we operate. Let it be supply chain, let it be financial strength, let it be other things to manage. And the third pillar is on how we are doing things, how do we transform the way we operate and getting better every day. And let me guide you through some examples of this program in the next couple of slides. To deliver on our growth ambitions, we are expanding our capacities in our core business. In 2025, we have invested around EUR 2 billion in our core business areas to expand capacities. And you will see the details of that in the different business area presentations. We will continue to invest in our capacity in the coming years, particularly in the areas of gas services and grid technologies. Our output for power transformers and mid- and large-scale gas turbines will increase until 2028 by 30% to 50%, depending on the size of the frame or the size of the transformer. Two principles guide us in this significant expansion program we are running. The first one, it must be backed by the market. We definitely want to avoid overcapacity in our market. And the second one is use our capital efficient. And this means that we have a high priority to expand on existing sites to limit CapEx and make the execution of expansion projects plannable and as fast as we can. And the U.S. transformer factory, which we are currently executing is a good example for that. This will be here at the site in Charlotte. The ones who are here in Charlotte today are going to see the site with a lot of different products, and it's also where then we build the transformer factory. We have relatively early on started up to build up the human resources, which are required to execute our backlog. And in the last 2 years, we have added around 7,000 employees net to the organization. Obviously, we do this with a strong focus on leveraging locations which have the talent pools and competitive labor cost. And with the growth we are foreseeing at the moment, we intend, obviously, to continue to expand our workforce also in the years to come. However, we do this in parallel to standardization of our products and processes to ensure that our revenue grows faster than our headcount. And we also will continue to evolve our portfolio. We have been consistently investing into research and development over the last years. And if you would take the sum of the CapEx, what we spend and the research and development expenses and look back over the last 3 years, we intend over the next 3 years to spend 20% more. This transfers into a relatively stable spending in research and development because the CapEx increases, and Maria will show it you in detail. But the euro amount in R&D will continue to be on a good flight level with some shift in the next years to grid technologies and gas services. The majority of our R&D activities is with a focus on maintaining the competitiveness of our core revenue carriers, like the next version of the F frame in the gas turbines, which will come online in 2026 or the 420 kV Blue portfolio, which is the first F gas-free switch gear in the high-voltage class, where orders are expected for 2027. And there are a lot more examples that will be from compression, steam turbines, other technologies. And you also have seen that we have been launching products into the market over the last years, which are just now starting to build up this revenue piece and become a core revenue carrier like our electrolyzers and transformation of industries, like the Mark VI offshore wind platform in wind power. And we will continue obviously to build this optimize existing revenue carriers, bring new ones in. And I also would like to highlight our activities where we drive innovations with joint partnerships. I gave you the examples to the last quarterly calls of our collaboration with Rolls-Royce on developing small modular reactors. You have heard about our collaboration with Eaton to develop solutions on data centers. We have our Omnivise platform, which is our AI-led fleet management system, which we closely develop together with our customers. These actions, capacity expansion, talent investment and portfolio evolutions are how Siemens Energy is preparing to lead in a rapidly transforming energy world. And at the same time, we expect that the boundary conditions will remain volatile. Supply chains will be under stress, and we will have to maneuver through geopolitical challenges. And resilience is an important criterion for us to develop our company. Over the last years, you have maybe noticed the examples on how we are working on strengthening our resilience. The one example was diversifying the supply chain. You heard about the example of the rare earths and the magnets where together with Japanese and Australian companies, we are trying to build up to 30% supply outside China for these. This diversification is happening across the supply base and different regions to be better prepared for disruptions. And while dependencies will remain, the continuous strengthening of the supply chain is crucial for us. And this is also happening by securing access to critical components. A recent example, what we gave was the acquisition of a key supplier for ceramic cores for gas turbines. This is eliminating for us a bottleneck on the gas turbine side and giving us access to 25% more capacity. And this step gives us greater control over essential parts and strengthen the reliability of our supply to customers. In addition, we are enhancing local for local sourcing to reduce lead times and adapt local market needs with greater flexibility. In Grid Technologies, more than 95% of purchase volumes are already coming from local suppliers. And at the same time, we are investing into strategic partnerships. And we have 15 strategic partnerships, and they are meant really to jointly align the execution plans to build joint capacities. A good example for this is our joint venture with KONCAR in Croatia, which is focusing on delivering more volumes for transformer tanks into the industry and help us really to deliver this demand. The 3 actions, diversification, access to critical components and local sourcing, that's the way on how we drive resilience also at Siemens Energy. While our technology and products are essential to compete in the market, it is the way we operate, which makes us different. Our target is to build an organization which better than others operates in a transforming world, respond quickly to market changes and continuously reduce the cost base. On October 1, with the start of the new fiscal year, we have launched our new revised operating model for our organization. And the clear focus is to drive operational excellence by establishing a more decentralized organization. It is based on sharp definitions on our processes of what to really drive in the business and what to keep really core in the central. And it will allow the businesses to steer more effectively through this growth period. It also comes with an amendment of our performance management system, creating smaller P&L structures, very clear frameworks in terms of performance management, and also making sure that everybody works on taking out bureaucracy, making sure cost efficiency and further developing the company step after step. And I'm confident that this will contribute positively to the margin expansion of the company. The other element I would like to flag up are our activities around data-driven processes and digitalization. And there are many examples in the company at the moment happening where we are using AI or data to improve the processes, let it be procurement, pricing, spare part management. And I would like to give you an example on -- from our factory shop floor in terms of what we're doing. And what you're seeing in the background is an example from our switchgear factory in Shanghai. And we optimized over the last years a lot in terms of robotics and in terms of optimizing these assembly processes, what you see here by continuously improving algorithms. And it is amazing to see also on this station the improvement what you're able to generate with that. We doubled the output from the factory and reduced at the same time, the headcount required by 60%. And that is really way on how to drive things better. You may also have seen that 2 weeks ago, we opened a new factory, a switchgear factory in Saudi Arabia. And this is based really on the same technology. So we transferred the technologies from China to Saudi Arabia, opened up the factories, which gives us the opportunity to really immediately have these productivity gains already in the new factory. And that is something what we will continue to work on in terms of really driving AI in our processes, getting every day better and differentiating afterwards through these more innovative approaches. In the period of spending so much capital really for expanding the company, the priority on capital allocation is important. And Maria will go in more detail on this, but I want to flag up the 3 priorities. First of all, we're going to spend around EUR 6 billion of CapEx in the next 3 years to come on expanding our capacities, particularly on the gas service side and grid technology side. The second point is, at the same time, we intend to return around EUR 10 billion to our shareholders. And this is based on the dividend policy of 40% to 60% of the net income attributable to our shareholders and a share buyback program of up to EUR 6 billion, what we are now launching. And last but not least, obviously, we will continue also to spend money on developing further the portfolio. We will maintain an R&D spending above EUR 1 billion per year, gradually shifting more money towards Grid Technologies and Gas Services with a strong focus on asset performance and product competitiveness. Our approach is ensuring that we deliver profitable growth, innovation leadership and value creation for all stakeholders. I briefly also want to address our position on the ESG side. And as the electricity demand grows rapidly, our responsibility is to provide to society new -- sufficient power and sufficient electricity while make it affordable and sustainable. And we are trying to balance this out in our ESG agenda. And let me first address the environmental progress. Since 2019, we have achieved industry-leading 55% reduction in Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions in our company. And we are on a very good way to achieve our climate neutrality target for Scope 1 and Scope 2 by 2030. At the same time, we aim to reduce Scope 3 downstream emissions by more than 50% until 2030. We very clearly focused on an intensity target also to make sure that we capture the growth within the market. It's not an absolute target. It's an intensity target to drive that forward. And our ESG agenda is also about developing people. We need the best and most motivated workforce to make sure that we can deliver what we promise. And I'm very glad to see engagement factors in our employee surveys of around 80%. More than 90% of the people in our organization are proud to work with Siemens Energy and for Siemens Energy, and we will continue to build the workforce by more than 2,000 apprentices by more than 1.4 million learning hours to make sure that at the end, we have, obviously, the workforce on that to deliver. That was a quick rundown for the years ahead of us in terms of what we are doing, and we're now getting into the details. In summary, obviously, it is the right business model and to provide, obviously sustained margins by really driving through execution of high-margin orders, continuously working on operational excellence and cost optimization. And there is a passion in the team of really driving this forward. And with that momentum, I'm also -- if I look beyond '28, seeing that momentum continuing, also delivering continuous EPS increase after 2028 and obviously, basing this on the sustained long-term electricity growth momentum in the market. In that framework, obviously, the North Star gives us the direction. The Elevate program gives us a structure on how to execute. Maria will walk you now through the numbers of the financials, and then the businesses will show you the details behind it. Thank you very much. And I would like to hand it over to Maria. Thank you.

Thank you, Christian. Good morning, everybody. Hello. How are you? Very warm welcome from my side. It's great to see so many familiar faces in the room, and hello to everyone who's joining us online. As Christian mentioned, you know that last week on Friday, we had our Q4 and our fiscal year '25 results. Today, I want to talk to you about value creation and how we deliver value to our shareholders. So here, you see in front of me 3 priorities that I have. One is profitable growth. It's leveraging the strengths that Christian just mentioned. It's looking at our market position and ensuring that we have sustainable profitable growth. Secondly, it's about resilience, in particular, financial resilience. So enhancing our financial resilience. And this is through a very strong and robust business model and also our rock-solid financial foundation. And thirdly, it's about capital allocation, but it's ensuring a disciplined approach to capital allocation. It's ensuring that we have, as Christian showed attractive shareholder returns. But before we go there, let's quickly recap how we delivered in fiscal year '25. So here you see in front of us, we have delivered on all of our KPIs and goals in fiscal year '25. Consistently across all businesses. Actually, fiscal year '25 was a pivotal year for us. Revenue grew 10% over the last 3 years. However, it's about the execution of that revenue, flawlessly, stringently step-by-step execute on our backlog and on our customer commitments and focusing on operational excellence, all at the same time as expanding our operations for more growth to come. Looking at profit, clear 6% profitability at the group level This, again, is also a turning point. And you'll see in a moment, this is not just in one area. This is all businesses improved. All businesses are looking at a double-digit trajectory continuing. And of course, our Siemens Gamesa is on its turnaround path as well. And free cash flow, EUR 9 billion in free cash flow generated over the last years. And this is fueled by growth for sure, and our capital-efficient business model, where we are effectively prefinanced, including effective allocation of capital where we're prioritizing properly and again, building upon that rock-solid financial foundation. We have EUR 5 billion of net cash. We have 2 investment-grade ratings with positive outlooks. I'll talk a little bit about that later. But now looking at that pivotal '25, let's look a little forward on how we will accelerate sustainable value creation. So a lot of information on this slide. And I show this slide every time. It's very important. Why? Because here you see across our business areas where our business areas will go into more detail, but you see the broad-based potential across our portfolio. It's all of them have a positive trajectory. That resiliency that's formed as a result of those 4 businesses all going all of the opportunities across each of the businesses forms a resilient base for us. It also shows what can only be described as the stellar progress that we've made already with GS and GT both approaching the 20% mark. This, as you know, substantially lifting the fiscal year '28 outlook. TI and Laura will bring you through the impressive turnaround that we've made so far and Siemens Gamesa confirming their commitment to breakeven with clear profitability by fiscal year '28. And underneath at the bottom of that slide, you see the profit before special items. All businesses are looking at returns of factors of greater than 2 or up to or more than 2. So overall, what you see here is all businesses are growing, all businesses are improving their margins. And this outlook for our businesses that you see in front of you here is based on a very strong foundation. Our excellent order book. I talk a lot about our order book because it's super important to us, 138 billion, 42% increase in the last years because it provides resiliency and visibility. And looking at visibility, here, I have 85% of my revenue already for fiscal year '26 in-house. I have 60% of my revenue for fiscal year '27 already in the backlog in-house. And by the way, the backlog goes well beyond our midterm plan. If you look at some of our solutions, Tim will talk about that in GT or our long-term service program. And again, looking at enhanced resiliency. I just mentioned our long-term service program. We have EUR 65 billion of service backlog, recurring, resilient, profitable, cash generating revenue for years. And in addition, I think this is something that you can see throughout the last 4 years, it's the structure has improved. So you now have a higher proportionate share of Gas Services and Grid Technologies with those strong margins that I just showed you. And with respect to Siemens Gamesa, as Vinod will show you later, onshore has been diligently executed with the new unit onshore backlog less than EUR 2 billion. Last, improved margin. So yes, that's as a result of a very strong pricing environment. But more importantly, it's about operational excellence across all of the businesses. Looking at the Gas Services new unit and service split, this is new in terms of the presentation. And here, I wanted to highlight to all of you the strong trajectory that we see in both of those areas, particularly in new units. You see GT at 9% and of course, transformation of industries, also a different business there with higher transactional business, but all businesses showing improvement in the years prior to '25, but certainly also in '25. So all in all, a strong resilient foundation for us, which supports the outlook. There's also more to just the resiliency than what we've showed you the backlog in other areas. It's really important that the financial resilience is further enhanced and supported by the strength of our global footprint and the diversity of our portfolio. So here you see the revenue by region. This encapsulates the global nature of our business, the demand and opportunities for growth across all of the regions. And also, when it comes to local for local, this is real financial resiliency with our strong local for local content and footprint and cost base. In addition, this also provides a natural hedge and resilience, for example, against trade restrictions or tariffs. Now looking on the right-hand side at the revenue by type, you see that around 30% of our revenue is recurring service. And now you also see the other, let's say, 1/3, 1/3 is attractive margins that we now have in both our solutions and our products. So as Christian mentioned in the North Star, we are active in all of these areas, whether it's by region or by revenue type. We are active where we hold leading positions because this is also resiliency in terms of scale, in terms of barrier to entry restrictions. So talking a little bit about resiliency, let me shift to something that is also extremely important. And this is something that's near and dear. The focus on efficiency and productivity. Christian mentioned that electricity is in our DNA. Productivity is also in our DNA. And we have worked hard in the last years to produce this basis, a very strong basis. in terms of the various efficiency programs that we've had, whether it was the Accelerate Impact program, whether it was the legacy programs from GP and also looking at integration synergies. This, of course, all the while each and every year, we also have rigorous base productivity, and this is offsetting the impacts from cost inflations. And we have enormous potential ahead of us. Christian talked about our new operating model. Here, it's about catalyzing that operational excellence day by day, step by step. It's also looking at sustainable economies of scale when we see our growth. And very importantly at the bottom is technology and AI adoption. I think we saw a really cool example from Christian. But let me assure you that it's not just in our operations. It's in all of our processes. It's in our businesses. It's also in our functions where we're looking at how we can use technology and AI to drive better efficiencies. And all, as you see over the years to come, all contributing to a lower overhead intensity, including SG&A. One area that I do want to highlight is the dark purple, which is our trademark license fee. This is reported fully in SG&A. It's approximately about 1% of revenue and have a mid-triple-digit impact each year or per annum. We mentioned this in the Q4 call last week, where this ends in 2030, but I think please bear this in mind when you're assessing potential beyond 2030. Okay. So let's now transition to the third priority or the third item on my agenda, looking at cash generation and capital allocation. So here in front of you, you see book-to-bill net contract liabilities and CapEx. And our cash flow strength, as I mentioned, is grounded in a very capital-efficient business model. So low asset intensity and a prudent prefinancing strategy. So starting with the first area, you see book-to-bill and how it's fared in the last years. And it's based on a continued growth, so greater than 1 beyond the midterm. And here, you see this in line with our prefinancing and our contract liabilities, developing with our backlog. So moving to the second item, which is the net contract liabilities, here's where we're deploying our prudent prefinancing strategy. And this is linked by -- to our margins and to the risk profiles in our contracts. And again, we talk a lot about our prefinancing in new units. We also have prefinancing in our service business. And what you see here is, yes, it's peaking with our tremendous backlog and then it will go slightly down to 12% of our backlog and should then grow, it's essentially correlated to our backlog progression. And lastly, on the right-hand side, you see our CapEx. And as Christian mentioned, we have CapEx, of course, with very disciplined investment criteria where we look at CapEx, we're EUR 6 billion of that in the next years between now and 2028, all related to capacity expansions and the execution of our current and future order book. And here we practice very clear prior principles. For example, Karim will discuss further the principles applying for a capacity expansion, for example. And looking at CapEx intensity in the midterm, you see it peaks in '26 and then in the midterm will be around 3% below depreciation. So all of this together creates the basis for a strong cash outlook, which you see in front of you. So on the right-hand side, you see for the years '26 to '28, we are expecting EUR 20 billion of free cash flow. This is reflecting a cash conversion rate at or above 1 over the period. And it's also further supported by a lower, let's say, just slightly shy of 20% cash tax rate. Here's where we're utilizing our loss carryforwards. And with that in mind, then we go from a EUR 20 billion pretax to a EUR 17 billion post tax. And cash and cash flow is the cornerstone of our balance sheet resilience. That rock solid financial foundation I was talking about. And this is underpinned by our EUR 5 billion in net cash position that we had at the end of fiscal year '25. And it's also underpinned by our ratings that you see here. Again, we are committed to a rock-solid financial fedation, and we are also ensuring that we are resilient in this period. And this together forms the basis for our updated capital allocation. So here you see we have a total of EUR 28 billion to be allocated. This includes a net cash basis of EUR 25 billion and the operating cash flow pre-CapEx. And what you also see here is we are committed to a balanced capital allocation, approximately 1/3 for each area. So let me briefly explain. In the first 1/3, you see our EUR 6 billion in other operations that are needed for the business in the years -- in the next 3 years to come. Anything that's related to inorganic growth is here. In the middle, I'm very happy and pleased to share the shareholder returns where we provide EUR 10 billion of total capital returns to shareholders until fiscal year '28. So this comprises of our new share buyback program of up to EUR 6 billion plus total dividends assumed of approximately EUR 4 billion. This is based on our progressive net income and, of course, also based on our 40% to 60% dividend policy of net income attributable to shareholders. Now you also know that we announced the proposal for a dividend for fiscal year '25 of EUR 0.70, that was proposed based on our dividend policy and also please, if you're looking at the years ensure that you understand there's a dividend, there's a lag. So of course, the dividend that is proposed is for fiscal year '25 and paid out in '26. So last but certainly not least, in a very important component in terms of our capital allocation is the last third of the last tranche of strategic reserve. So here, you'll have -- or I have things like our India commitment that you know to get up to the 51% of our Siemens Energy India Limited in 2028. That's here. We also have, for example, if there is the necessity for bolt-on M&A and other inorganic measures, we'll be here. And of course, this is where the net cash reserve will sit. This is where we will ensure that we -- our commitment to a strong investment-grade credit profile is maintained. So that together really shows the overall balanced capital allocation and how we foresee the sources and uses of cash in the next 3 years to come. So with that, we have really to summarize that we have a very strong outlook, a framework really for sustainable value creation. And our outlook reflects the continued broad-based across the portfolio growth, not just in one area across all of the businesses for double-digit growth. And of course, this is supported clearly by the visibility that we saw in the backlog. And this also enables us to have that continuous margin expansion towards the 14% to 16% by fiscal year '28, and again supported by all businesses. And what's also important that, yes, we have our pricing momentum. But we also have that operational excellence, that North Star that Christian is talking about, embedded in all of our businesses and underlying when we are talking about our margin expansion. This leads to our profit more than tripling by fiscal year '28. And I think, as Christian mentioned, there's more potential beyond '28. And also to complement our guidance, you see here our net income of EUR 3 billion to EUR 4 billion free cash flow of EUR 4 billion to EUR 5 billion and again, our commitment to a strong investment-grade profile. So a lot of information. but maybe let me recap and summarize. So it's about creating sustainable shareholder value. And we're going to do it because we have our resilient revenue growth. This well-diversified portfolio has shown leading market positions embedded in all of our businesses. We have a broad-based margin expansion where we have this excellent order book, where we have transparency and resiliency and our growing service share. We have strong cash flow generation, as I showed you, EUR 20 billion in the next years, which supports the capital allocation of EUR 28 billion. The balanced capital allocation, again, reinforced by our commitment to a strong investment credit grade profile. And last but certainly not -- last, but not least, excuse me, we have excellent shareholder returns, up to EUR 10 billion for the next 3 years in dividends and share buybacks until fiscal year 28. And although not on this page, it goes without saying that all of this would not be possible if not for our excellent team and team [ performance ]. So with that, I think that concludes my portion of the presentation. So I think over back to you, Tobias, and for Christian to join me.

Thank you so much, Maria.

Thank you.

Christian, please also come back on stage. And now we have around 20 minutes for the Q&A. So Christian and Maria. So if you have any questions, it would be great. We have 2 people in the room who are bringing around the mics and whenever you get the mic, maybe state your name and company so that we know who question. So first question comes from Phil Buller, first row.

Yes. Great. So Phil Buller from JPMorgan. I've got one for Christian and one for Maria, if I may. The growth drivers, I think, Christian, to 2028 are quite clear. There's a lot of confidence that things improve still beyond 2028 in terms of profitable growth. I would assume that a key driver behind that is the outlook for service margins. At the moment, I assume you renegotiate your service contracts every year. So how are those service margin discussions evolving as they roll off their current term? Are they changing in terms of price? Are they changing in terms of structure? Are people looking for longer duration contracts? And are there any competitive entrants that could disrupt that topic? And for Maria, on the balance sheet, we obviously had a near death experience a few years ago. I know that there's a desire to remain net cash, but you're now going to be a much more profitable business than you've ever been in the past. So how should we think about the level of net cash? Is that EUR 100 million? Is that EUR 5 billion? I guess, given how things are looking, do we need to be quite so net cash going forward?

Thanks for the questions. And with regard to the service piece, just to make sure that we all consider it's different on the different businesses, right? I mean on the Gas Services, absolutely, yes, it's really creating the base for a successful service business. And on Grid Technologies, it's much more on projects and products and less on service. There is service and there's more service probably also coming, but not to the same extent as in Gas Services. So I would see it slightly different. What I do see in the electricity market happening, the one thing is general growth on this base electricity market. But also, I mean, take this example of data centers, it's more a structural shift because it's -- the market works differently than a classical electricity market. And that offers also opportunities for new type of solutions or framing it differently. And I think with a company like ours, which is on the one hand, on the generation side and on the other side, on the Grid Technology side and understands grid stability, that's a very interesting combination. So it's not just the service piece, which drives us up to 2028, just to put that into perspective. But yes, I think the -- let's say, the services and the leverage, particularly in gas service business then to continue also the margin expansion. We are obviously, as a company, and Karim is much better qualified afterwards to put this in detail, we are relying a lot on very long-term service agreements. So the renegotiation is not as fast turning around. But our strength was always to work in this existing long-term framework and then optimize our cost base. That is the trick we are trying to do. That's our strategy. Yes, we get a lot of new service agreements coming in now with a new, much bigger new unit installed base. And what we do see at the moment, depending on the market, there are some changes commercially on how these contracts come together. Not everything is about profit margin. A lot of things is also about resilience and making sure that whatever going to happen in the world, you have some safeguards in there. And it's also a little bit of understanding how can we ensure that we have models together with our customer that there is a, let's say, pain gain or, let's say, winning scheme jointly. And this will change certain service business models what we're working on. But fundamentally, I always have said the gas service business is a great business to have. I think it's our stronghold, and I'm not disclosing separate margins, but it's really something where we continue to build on. But yes, also with the current momentum because a lot of units may be operated differently and may have different challenges, it offers an opportunity for revised that business model also after -- with an effect of 2028. Keep in mind, if you sell a gas turbine today, you're probably not seeing all these things in terms of service business in all the numbers what you have seen on the screen. They come after 2028.

That's right.

So the question, I guess there's 2 parts of that isn't there? So there's the new contracts that you're locking in for new customers, but the natural attrition of the installed base. So I guess if you have 10-year contracts every year, there'll be a renewal. So on those renewals of existing ones, are you seeing a material change to the structure of those contracts? Or is it...

No, it's not so much, but Karim can much better. He will show the installed fleet and also the additions in his presentation. And then you can also give you a little bit more background on that one.

Then over to me for -- thank you, Phil, for reminding us of -- but that's true. A couple of years ago, we experienced things a little differently, and that's why it's so important for us to maintain that rock solid financial foundation. As you know, we ended the year with just shy of EUR 5 billion of net cash. And I think it's really important in light of some of the activities in terms of growth that we have for our businesses. You saw on the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, where it's looking at potential bolt-on M&A in other areas, but it's really important for us at this point in time for the time being to have a net cash balance. And we see that and I foresee that in the 3 years to come until fiscal year '28.

So thank you very much. Maybe the next question goes to Ben Uglow. And 1 question, please. Please only ask one question, thanks.

Okay. I'll try to just ask one. But my question is for Christian. And it's about -- I don't know how to put it, but market discipline. And we are in the midst of an industry-wide capacity expansion, which we haven't seen, really, frankly, for 20-plus years. And in the past, the problem has been that people behave normally and then go completely bananas. If I listen to what you and your competitors are saying, there's this kind of common agreement that we're all expanding capacity by 30%. Behind the scenes, there's kind of different things going on with different companies. impression is your Japanese competitor could be significantly bigger than that in the U.S. and because it's -- how do you see the market? How do you see the price behavior and the capacity behavior between the different players. And if things were to change, i.e., that we need more capacity, how adaptable are your plans? So if we decide to go the full hog, how quickly can Siemens Energy adapt.

Yes. Thanks, Ben, for the question. And as I've shown in the slides, I believe we do a very conscious capacity expansion, making sure that we leverage really our productivity and our existing sites. And I see my competition also thinking carefully through this. You can never avoid that somebody goes crazy or whatever. But so far, I'm not seeing that. And I would repeat that for the Gas Services business as well as for the Technology business. And the other thing is also what if additional capacity is not available. I mean nobody going to curtail electricity just because it's not available. So it's a relatively thin line to walk. But for me, it's important that the money we put down for capacity expansion has relatively short payback times. That whenever this occurs, right, that I can say, okay, yes, but we captured what we wanted to capture and the market might be smaller, whatever, in 2035, but that is not -- that was not the logic, right? I would, from my side, be very hesitant to say, I invest into something where I only know after 15 years whether it ever has paid off, right? I think in terms of where's the limitation, at the moment, everybody talks about gas turbine and transformers and you have to tune out the noise, right, and really focus on the signal. I think we're overestimating that limitation because there's next limitations to come. I think we have to watch carefully the supply chain, and we are investing into this. There is obviously things we can do, and I believe also our competitor can do to further drive up productivity. I've shown you the examples for a reason from the shop floor. Nobody would have ever believed 3 years ago that you can increase the productivity so much in an existing factory by relatively straightforward measures. And I think there's more, right? But we are learning this. And in 2028, could there be another leverage on driving up productivity? Potentially, yes. And this is what I would always follow, make these things more productive and sweat the assets. I do believe we will see then the limitations tripling through, supply chain, EPCs, really bringing these things down, and we work our way through it. So far, I see a consistent behavior -- and as I said, for me, it's important that we don't expose ourselves in case the tide turns, right? But it's a balance between also being too slow because that is something which we should not underestimate. We want to be able to deliver to our customers what they need. So far, I think we have embarked on a decent journey. And I believe there are still always levers you can pull on productivity to get more out of it. And Karim and Tim are going to show it a bit.

Alex Jones, you also raised your hand.

Alex Jones, Bank of America. On a slightly similar topic, you showed this continued margin progression after 2028. I'm interested in how you see pricing as a driver of that? Or is it more driven by productivity? And I suppose I'm asking because the gas slides that you released earlier show a continued capacity expansion even after 2027, I think of another 35%. Do you expect that to lead in the market to some sort of declining or moderating OE pricing as we get beyond the next 3 years? Or do you remain confident?

My base assumption would always be leverage productivity and really make sure that also from a corporate cost structure side, we do the utmost. If there is an additional pricing element, that's great. But at the moment, it's really in terms of this continuous improvement on EPS. It's really productivity and really bringing home what we have in the books. That's my main assumption.

So Delphine, just behind you.

You showed a lot of ambition in terms of capacity -- sorry, I'm Delphine Brault, ODDO BHF. You showed a lot of ambition in terms of capacity expansion, workforce increase R&D expansion. Any limits that you have to deal with I'm thinking notably a shortage of workers in some countries or segments but also supply chain tensions that you touch upon, how do you deal with this? What measures or processes do you put in place to counter the obstacles?

No, at the end, I mean, all of these are limitations, as you rightly said. I mean -- and this is why I said we're relatively early on roughly more than 2 or 3 years ago, we started, for example, the workforce ramp-up. At the same time, we're trying to understand what means AI for certain processes and how to do more with less people. And that is why it's also important to drive standardization of our products and our processes to make sure we can handle this even so obviously, workforce availability might not be easy. And that is true for every country of the world. It's not different elsewhere. We have been leveraging this quite well, I think, in the last years. It will continue to be with us. At the end, it's a question on what we focus on. And this is why I also tried to show the structure. It is working through this. Supply chain will be a constraint. Always, it will not go away. But the question is, can we manage it better than others by really having the focus on it. This is what we're trying to do in there. And it will also continuously be challenges, which we don't see today on that. What I cannot tell you today is really what do we foresee fully then as the impact, for example, of AI and how to redo the processes. At the moment, I clearly have to say we are ready to execute our order backlog. I mean that is what I can really convey. And then we work on it day after day after day. But this is also why, for example, education and apprentices is so important for us. We have to also build up the workforce in our industry ourselves to a certain extent to make sure that they are available. And supply chain will be a continuous exercise to diversify, localize and not even talking about requests from countries to further localize will be with us. focus of management is that, that is the main answer to that for me.

If you just hand it over to Gael, maybe, Gael de-Bray.

Gael de-Bray from Deutsche Bank. Can you talk a bit more about the portfolio review, the ongoing portfolio review. Specifically, you mentioned that one of the guiding principles for the group was to achieve #1 or #2 positions in all areas. So I guess, specifically, do you think this is something you can achieve for the onshore wind business? And could you also talk about the place and the rollout of the corporation business within the overall strategy and the synergies with the rest.

Yes. I can talk about it. I might not have an answer specifically for each and everything at the moment. But what is important for me to understand with the North Star is that at the end, we're trying to manage a set of businesses, which is super well positioned in the market and serves electricity and electrification. And we always have been talking about like business, what is wind and what is transformation of industry. Keep in mind that 5 years ago, we talked the same way about Grid Technologies. They were the laggard in terms of the performance. We were not sure how it's coming. So I would also take some breathing time there and saying, let's see how it's developing. For me, it's important at the moment that both of these businesses improve day after day after day. And this is why also this turnaround story in wind is extremely important for us. It's the biggest lever on the profitability in '26 for us. Do I believe onshore wind can go? That's a very long run in terms of really getting there, particularly from where we're coming from. That's something to be looked at, but it's not in that point in time at the moment. For me, the key thing in onshore is our team to set them up for success to reintroduce products in the market to get them better every day. And I always have said, and this applies to each and every business that we will continuously look on what is the outlook. There's currently no active things planned. But you know, for example, in onshore wind, we have taken measures like India, where we say we don't do this or we focus only there. And you will see it also from Vinod's presentation that there is a very focused approach on this. And then at the end, when we have done this, then it's the time to look on it and saying, okay, can we get it to the flight level where we want to be. But that is not the point in time today, also not for the transformation of industry business, which has also elements which they are continuously working through. And keep in mind, the portfolio elements might be also portfolio elements to add to dispose. We've done it in the past. We will work through it and keep you updated on this. Let me put it like this. What I want you to hear and clear is that we very carefully look on the portfolio composition at the end, profitability and market leadership is linked together. And this is why we obviously will use it as an element to further develop the company.

Thanks a lot. Any additional questions right now? Will, just in front of you. Will, please.

Will Mackie, Kepler Cheuvreux. My question comes to working capital and specifically, the working capital development we've seen over the last 3 years. You put up on your chart, the allocation of your EUR 28 billion and you've provided some insight into the development of contract liabilities. But I mean, perhaps you could frame how we should think about how working capital at the group level will develop as a proportion of sales through the cycle and perhaps some of the other elements of contract assets and the other more stable elements of working capital. And then perhaps to go deeper into that question to ask how you see the working capital across each of the divisions evolving specifically the...

That's very specific getting into some of the details of working capital. And that's why I wanted to share the peaking of the 13% with the net contract liabilities, specifically because, of course, when you look at our operating working capital, everyone talks about the contract assets and the contract liabilities. And currently, you see that peaking again with our backlog progression. When you're looking at things like inventory and our working capital, you see that also is in line with increasing levels as we execute our backlog. But as a percentage of sales, you would see that currently, like you saw with the SG and other things, it's a degression effect or a limiting effect. Even though we continue to increase our working capital peaks for the contract liabilities, but other things go in line with our sales progression but proportionately lower.

Yes, please. You've got a question at the back.

Richard Dawson from Berenberg. So I just noted you completed several bolt-on M&A acquisitions this year. but also note that you sort of keeping capital reserve for future opportunities as well. So just interested if you could provide some color on what you may be missing from your portfolio and maybe sort of a guide on what sort of size that could be.

First of all, to be clear also, I mean, at the moment, we are not up to major acquisitions, where there's bolt-on acquisitions, particular, as I said, one piece is strengthening the supply chain. And this is why I gave the example of the ceramic cores. This could be also an investment into joint ventures like with KONCAR to make sure that there is a resilience on the supply chain. The second point and always have flagged it up, we heavily look into how do we continue to develop the business on the digital grid side, on the grid stabilization. Some of this might be R&D work. Some of it might be collaborations. Some of it might be smaller bolt-on acquisitions, but it's also really for us at the moment to deliver our backlog and work through it. And this is why I also -- when I showed the 3 priorities for capital allocation, big M&A was not part of that, right? I mean there's a reason for that. It's not the core focus at the moment. But if there are smaller bolt-ons, we're going to look into this. And I think there's definitely room on the grid technologies side and on the supply chain side where we could do certain things.

So -- and as the room is so big, sorry, I didn't see you before Max. Please go ahead with your question.

Max from Morgan Stanley. I just -- I wanted to ask -- I'll wait for capacity on gas. But I wanted to ask about the grid business. And maybe just sort of 2 pieces. If I look at the backlog margins that you've showed, they're up by 300 basis points last year, and I look at kind of what's coming out and it's kind of 15 or 16 depending on whether you exclude one-offs. I guess my question is, it looks to me when you try and back it out that the margins of what's going in is kind of well into the 20s. Is that right? When you look at kind of margins on new orders, it looks like they're already above the top end of your targets. So am I missing anything?

Do you want to take that?

I would say, Max, that it's not that you're missing anything. And of course, you saw the progression of the backlog margin and the project margin increasing in the years, but you also know, as you rightly mentioned, there's a lag between, of course, the booking of the order and when that comes to fruition to sales. So that the trajectory is higher in that regard in order to ensure that uplift for the 2028 accordingly.

And could I ask a very quick follow-up. You talked about obviously new equipment versus aftermarket a lot in terms of your gas services equipment. But in the grid business, when you look at your products versus solutions business and you look at the pricing that you're getting on new orders, how should we think about this kind of evolution, maybe qualitatively of those 2 businesses when we think about margins going forward?

I think while there is markets where you would say that's products that solutions don't completely unlink them because obviously, certain products business, you only generate because of the solutions business. That's the logic, right? And then it's a little bit an internal allocation piece in terms of how do you do that. Fundamentally, I would say the way on how we run it, the product looks, let's say, higher in terms of margin than the solutions piece. But as I said, it's not completely unrelated on that. And I expect, obviously, that relation also in terms of margin level to continue also for the future.

Yes, we don't have -- so after we have not 20 minutes of Q&A., we had -- so we need a quick break in order to set up the stage because I'm really happy to welcome now for the panel discussion. Chad Zamarin from Williams, Alan Duong from Meta and Matt Gardner from Dominion. But just give us 2 minutes, and we're going to be prepared so that we're going to have the panel discussion here starting in a second.

Is that working? Okay. And now comes a part of the Capital Market Day where I have to say, I really look forward to be part of the Capital Markets Day because that is really a pleasure to have a discussion here with some of our most important customers, and I would like to welcome to our stage, Chad Zamarin, Matt Gardner and Alan Duong. Please have a seat. Very good. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us today and having a discussion. I have to say I was very pleased to see the composition of the panel. And if I talk about the U.S. and what is we have ahead of us, I think we could not have a better panel to talk about the development of the energy infrastructure. We have Chad Zamarin, the CEO from Williams since this year. Congratulations still, and he joined Williams in 2017. He has been before also with companies like Cheniere. So I think you have seen a big transformation in the energy markets. So very glad to have you here. Matt Gardner Vice President of Planning and Operations in Dominion Energy, I would say the brain behind the grid, right, in terms of really helping us to understand how we actually get all these electrons across the country. And Alan Duong, they had -- you have probably the coolest title at the moment, right? Head of data center design, engineering and construction. He is probably one of the guys where everybody goes to and says, "How the heck we're going to do that." So it's very great to have you here. And I'm looking forward really to the joint discussion. And maybe, Alan, we start with you in terms of your view on data centers and AI, how is the load curves coming? What is the demand outlook? What are you seeing from your perspective at Meta?

Yes. No, that's a great question. What you're seeing in the market today clearly is this shift and change in compute, right? So we're moving towards very heavy compute. Very low storage which is driven by AI technology, as you [ would know ]. And so within our company, what we're seeing -- I won't speak for the rest of the industry, but if you follow the news, you see where the industry is going. We are seeing from where we're going to land at the end of the year of our just AI infrastructure data center footprint by the end of this year, over the next 24 months, we're going to see a 4x to 5x growth in our capacity demands alone. And so we plan around sort of, I would say, 18 months sort of rolling capacity outlook and from that perspective, 24 months from now, 4x or 5x is what we're seeing. So that's what's happening within just Meta alone. And if you scale this out over the next 48 months looking all the way up to 2030, you can see that ballooning significantly more. And so we're going to time it again, every 18 months, we refresh our capacity outlook, but that's where we're at today.

Chad, I mean, looking on gas, right? I mean we're talking so much about gas at the moment. At the end, it also means the pipelines have to be there, the capacities have to be there. How do you look on the current situation? Or where do you see the bottlenecks on that side?

Yes. I mean it is one of the challenges in the United States. I mean we haven't -- we've grown natural gas demand by about 50% over the last 10 years. We've only grown pipeline capacity by 25%, and we haven't grown storage capacity at all. Here in the United States, we've got a gas market of about 100 Bcf a day. We can store 4 trillion cubic feet of natural gas each and every day here in the United States. It's the world's largest battery. And it's why the natural gas value chain is so important to our energy ecosystem, but we haven't been expanding it at the pace that demand has been growing. And then you think about electricity, we haven't grown electricity production in the United States in 25 years. We've done a lot of work. We've moved a lot of things around, but we actually haven't grown electricity production in 25 years in the U.S. And so we've got to build in order to support this race that we need to win, and we've got to support our customers in achieving their full potential, but we've got to build at a pace and at a scale that we frankly haven't for the last 25 years. So supply chain matters. I mean, obviously, the partnership with Siemens for us is incredibly important. But just more broadly, I mean, we, as a country, have to get back to building. I mean, I'll give you -- Williams is a company that in World War II built the war emergency pipelines from Texas to New York in under a year. We've been -- we built our Atlantic Sunrise pipeline started in 2012, went in service in 2017, and we just finished the last litigation on the project this year, 13 years to kind of close out a big scale project. So we do have to -- and we're seeing hopeful signs that the market is realizing this once-in-a-generation opportunity, but we've definitely got to get back to building at a scale we haven't in a long time.

Thank you. Thanks, Chad. Matt, now the infamous question, obviously, what about the grid? I mean where are the constraints there? Is it available? What is the near-term pressure points what you see? And how to unlock capacity?

Yes. Absolutely, great question. And by the way, thank you very much for the honor of being a part of this panel. So what we're seeing right now on the grid is an environment of both accelerating demand and accelerating growth. And so let me provide some statistics associated with that. We are a part of the PJM market, and our load forecast is at a CAGR of 6.3%. And we've been in that 5% to 6% growth rate since essentially the easing and the ending of the pandemic. So what does that type of growth rate mean for us? That type of growth rate means that in the next 15 years, the demand on our system is going to double. Now we've been in business for 116 years. And in the next 15 years, we're going to essentially double the demand on our system. When have we seen peak demands on our system? Well, each year, year after year, over the last half a decade, we've seen one -- we've set one new high watermark after another in terms of peak loading on our system. Our all-time peak load occurred this year. As a matter of fact, all top 10 of the peak loads on our system have occurred in the first 7 months of 2025. So we've hit all top 10 peaks. And we anticipate that next year, we'll hit new peaks as well. So what is this doing to the grid? This type of demand growth, this type of load growth is meaning that we're certainly extending the transmission system to handle this load growth, but it's more than just the local extension, adding substations to the grid. It's now starting to have an impact on the very backbone of the grid, the extra high-voltage network. I'm talking 500 kV, 765 kV. We're starting to see the need for significant regional enhancements to that portion of the grid. So that's driving investment in our system. So accelerating demand, accelerating growth affecting the backbone of the grid. But what I would like to say is that accelerating growth, the amount of capacity that we're adding to our system over the next 5 years is actually going to be the same as the amount of capacity that we've added over the last 10 years. So essentially, what I'm going to do in the next 5 years is going to be greater than or equal to the amount of capacity I've added in the last 10. So there's accelerating growth there as well. What about reliability? With all of this demand, with all of this growth, what about reliability? Actually, on our system, reliability is improving along the way. And what that means is that these investments are having a positive impact on all of our customers. As a matter of fact, last year, in the calendar year 2024, we registered the highest levels of reliability ever on our transmission and substation system. The lowest number of minutes out was registered last year. So accelerating growth, accelerating demand and then improving reliability as well.

Thanks, Matt. So I'd say, summarizing it, demand is there, right? And there is, let's say, a big push for that. And now the question is how do we execute all of that? And how can we make this growth happening? And Matt, maybe from your side also as Matt, I think you have a strong U.S. view, but you also have a view outside -- sorry, Alan, you have a strong sight on also outside the U.S. and what's happening else. What do you see as the limiting factors or the bottlenecks or the really blocking points? Is it permitting? Is it execution capacity? Is it OEMs? What is it?

Well, it's supply chain is #1 when it comes to data center construction, just raw construction. We don't have access to enough equipment for us to go build these data centers. And then when you move up the chain and you move backwards probably 24 months from that, a limiting factor is energy. You can't find land and you can't find energy anywhere today. And if you're talking about the accelerated demands that we're all operating against today where we believe in the next 24 months, we're going to learn a lot about who's going to win this race. AI is powered by infrastructure and it's powered by energy. And so that's our limiting factor today. And so that's why you're seeing a lot of deployments where we're deploying behind-the-meter generation directly connected to our workloads, and that's what's driving it. So that's our biggest risk today, our biggest bottleneck.

If I may jump into this immediately and look to you, Matt, right? Because we were talking so much about behind the meter, grid infrastructure, not get connected, grid connected. How do you see it from your perspective, really understanding also the grid infrastructure in the U.S.

Well, I mean, it's -- when you look at when you look at the type of growth that we're having right now, I think we're going to need to see an all-of-the-above approach in terms of continuing to serve the load. And that means getting creative. That means getting creative in how we generate energy and how we partner with our customers in load flexibility. The flexibility of demand, the flexibility of loads is becoming more and more of a conversation. As a matter of fact, we've developed what we call the CAP Flex program at Dominion Energy, which allows for us to add curtailable capacity to our grid. So I think, Christian, from the perspective of behind the meter, in front of the meter, partnered with the utility, I think we're looking at an all of the above scenario where we'll find joint progress and success together with our customers.

Christian, I might just add, I think it positions Siemens in a really important place. I mean I do think Matt said it well, this is not a black and white grid versus behind the meter. It's not going to be a large frame unit versus a small frame unit. What we're seeing is to meet the customers' needs, we've got to expand the grid. We've got to build the big infrastructure. I mean we move 1/3 of the nation's natural gas, but building the big systems to expand the grid takes time. Again, we haven't been doing it at scale for 25 years. So in the meantime, and I think for long term, there are a lot of industries where large power use facilities want to control some form of their energy. You want to tailor that energy system to the unique operations of a facility. You think about the industrial complex that we serve. So this idea of kind of grid versus behind the meter, big unit versus small unit, it's going to be a combination of solutions. And I think it's one of the reasons why we spend so much time with your team. You've got a lot of different tools that we can bring to bear so that we can solve these unique challenges.

Are you seeing differences if you look from a, let's say, gas pipeline perspective or an electricity grid perspective? Are there different elements in terms of what is limiting the speed of the transformation?

Yes. I mean it's really hard to build linear infrastructure. I mean that is one of the challenges in our country. You're crossing people's land, you're crossing different jurisdictions. You've got environmental features. So I mean, one of the hardest things to build -- I mean, we talk about very large complex sites and even data centers are very large complex sites. But once you've got that site secured and you're building on a single location, it's not easy. Don't get me wrong. But building long, large linear transmission power and pipeline infrastructure is very difficult. So a lot of what we're going to have to do is work with our customers work with Meta to make sure we can site facilities where we've got enough existing infrastructure and then we can build. But the challenges are the same. I mean it is increasingly difficult and the country has gotten more populated, and we're wanting to site locations as close as we can to end-use opportunities. But it is certainly a challenge to build through people's backyards.

You have outlined a pretty impressive now growth and you're reviewing it continuously. But what is really -- what is the must-have to make it happen really that you, at the end, also bring all this demand. And so what is really the points where you would say that's driving you day after day to look on -- to recalibrate also on how you're moving?

Yes. I mean it's relevant to what we're talking about here and everything that everyone shared already. It's speed, right? At the end of the day, our -- my job is to ensure that we can deliver data center capacity to our software teams and our hardware team so that they can build frontier AI systems on our infrastructure. And right now, the next 24 months is very critical for us. Our leadership team is betting the company in the next 24 months as far as excelling our AI infrastructure and AI systems. In order for us to get there, we need energy. That is the current bottleneck at the moment. If you ask me what my preferred deployment is, it is to connect our data centers to the grid. That's what we've done over the last 12 years, right? Grid connected energy from there is stable, reliable. It's dependable for us. That's what we want. We're only moving towards behind the meter because that's the only way that we can build fast. So we don't have to do what Chad just said, going through all these policies, building pipelines across people's land, that takes a lot of time. And so for us, we're moving in this direction in the near term because we need to deliver capacity quickly. That's our biggest priority.

Is there any other things which drive you? And obviously, also saying, hey, what is with regard to what the clean energy procurement versus fossil fuels, right? And how do we cope with that? Is there anything what comes in addition to that?

I mean we have goals to be net zero in 2030 across our entire supply chain. We're still committed to that. And so we want to partner with partners in the industry that will allow us to scale our capacity now. But at the same time on the back end, help us get to our commitments because we won't hit that if we're just burning natural gas generators to create power to power up our data centers. We need the renewables. We need the commitments there as well as well as long-term sort of commitments because it doesn't stop in 2027. If this technology proves already from what it's doing today in the industry and how it's changing the way we work, and engage with each other. This thing is going to continue to scale all the way through the next 10 years. And so we have to intentionally long-term plan that today. We have to scale out our grid. We got to scale our power generation, and we have to continue to invest in renewable supply, like we have to do that.

Seeing that -- I mean what I find fascinating about data centers is the amount of electricity we're talking about. I mean, we so easily talk about 1 gigawatt consumption per site. I mean we always have to recognize there's a very limited number of sites in the U.S. at the moment. just having a couple of hundred megawatts. So we're doing something completely different to the infrastructure. Matt, if you look on it, these lumpy loads, which now kick in, what does it mean?

Yes. Large lumpy loads say that 5 times. But I'll tell you what, on the grid, we've actually been dealing with large lumpy loads for decades. We've been serving things like arc furnaces. It requires flexibility. It requires really understanding the nature of the large load. We have in our industry, our reliability regulator, so to speak, in North America is the North American Electric Reliability Corporation. And they've recognized this large load issue as well. As a matter of fact, there's a task force right now that's focused on understanding these large loads, how they operate and what the grid needs to do in order to be flexible and provide stability. So they've actually developed a questionnaire, a questionnaire that we've taken, worked with our customers and actually placed within our facility interconnection requirements so that as these data center loads are growing on our system, not just data center loads, but all sorts of loads, as they're growing on our system, we know the characteristics of them. We keep that conversation going with our customers to understand the dynamic nature of the loads. But it does require additional flexibility from the grid. How do we get that flexibility? Well, we get that flexibility from things like flexible AC transmission systems. The discussion of HVDC is becoming more and more prevalent in the industry. Long story short, what we're trying to do is not only serve this load through investments in grid but also serve this load with investments in grid capability. And that capability comes from engineering solutions that are innovative, that provide flexibility that give you the proverbial dimmer switch to adjust voltage and ride through various transients that might come from these lumpy loads, so to speak.

Thanks, Matt. And then obviously, on the other side, we also have an ability to flex generation a bit. And Chad, how you look from your point of view on generation infrastructure like [ Pekas ]? And how would it going to look like going forward?

Yes. I mean one of the challenges, I mean it is going to be really important that we continue to evolve our technology in order to address a more dynamic energy system. I mean it sounds interesting and fun. One of the challenges is it drives up the complexity and cost of the system. I mean, we've seen as we -- it is the right thing to move coal out of our generation composition. But as we've done that, we've added intermittency and we've created a more complex grid even before you add more dynamic loads at large scale from an industry like data centers. We've added LNG exports on the gas side, which are more volatile, they could be lifted or not lifted. We've added a lot more power generation in natural gas, which is primarily the only tool we have at scale that can balance intermittency. And so as the grid becomes more dynamic, it requires more complexity. And the thing we have to be careful of is that can oftentimes lead to additional cost. And what we've seen in the United States is markets that haven't gotten that right. We will see some of the largest utility price increases in the United States this year in the history of modern energy in our country in certain markets. And that's in markets where we have added complexity to the system, but we haven't solved that with technologies that complement it well. Markets that get that right, we still have very affordable, reliable energy, but that is a challenge. And it's -- again, to be a company like Siemens thinking about solving these technology challenges, we have to understand that the grid is becoming more complex. So yes, today, we rely heavily on natural gas in markets that function well as the backstop and support for renewables, intermittency and volatility. But we're going to have to continue to evolve that over time as we introduce additional loans as we grow the system. The slack is gone. We've kind of taken all the slack out of our system. So we have a thesis that grid constraints will continue for a very long time, which is why we're going to have to have a combination of existing but also new technologies to meet those needs.

I mean you addressed already a couple of points, but my question would have been what you need from companies like us?

I think it's why we need a variety of different solutions. I mean if you look at already what we're doing with Siemens, we have some very large -- I mean, we are one of the largest operators of turbomachinery in the United States. Most of our business historically was to use that from a compression perspective. We do power generation as well. But if you look at the combination of solutions that we're going to need, every market is going to be unique. Every customer need is going to be unique. And so -- and even every site is going to be unique. So how do we make sure we're bringing those combinations of solutions and you're going to continue to see that we're not just focused on 1 unit design. We're focused on kind of the variety of units, and there may even be units that haven't been thought of or designed yet that we're going to need to think about into the future as the grid evolves. So I think at the end of the day, we're going to need a lot. And you heard from Alan, like we need a lot. We need a lot of energy. We also need to continue to be on a sustainability path of decarbonization best way we can do that is decarbonize the existing energy ecosystem. It's the biggest system on the planet, and we've got to do that here at home. Internationally. I mean it's great we're going to do it in the U.S., but at the end of the day, emissions is a global problem. How do we go out into develop -- still 3 billion people in energy poverty around the world. India now just become the most populous country on the planet. They're starting their journey out of poverty using oil and coal primarily, a little bit of renewables and natural gas. But those are the things that we're going to need a bit of everything, but it's really going to be new technology and evolution of the existing technology to meet the need.

Yes. Alan and Matt, from your side, anything where you would say that's what you need from companies like us?

Yes. Well, we need from Siemens Energy exactly what we need from the grid, as I mentioned, capacity and capability. So let me unpack that just a little bit. Certainly, we're going to need capacity. We're going to need large power transformers. We're going to need switch gear. We're going to need fax devices, those flexible devices that give the grid capability. The way we achieve that with key suppliers is through forecasting in communications. We're very intentional about taking the growth that we're seeing in our in our service territory and in our company and being open about that and having discussions with you and your team on what that means in terms of the demand for equipment, what that means in terms of slots and how we and how we manage those orders. So certainly, we need capacity. Over the next 5 years, I'm going to build 200 or more substations, 200 or more substations. How do you stick build 200 or more substations? That's where, again, we need the capability from our key suppliers like Siemens Energy. What does that mean? That means innovation. How can I take a substation and make it look more like something that's prefabricated, pre-engineered modular repeatable. So how can we leverage that for the grid? And also, again, flexibility. Flexibility comes from innovation. Certainly, there will be additional technologies that will need to be developed for the grid we are starting to push into not only a time where there's more demand on the grid. But as we've already talked about, these large loads there, they could be very dynamic. So the grid is becoming a more and more dynamic place. There's more and more that's happening on the grid. So measuring that, understand how we operate that, understanding how we can control that. Really, the grid is starting to evolve into a digital energy routing system. And that will require a lot of innovation on our part, certainly on your part to manage.

Thank you. Alan, anything to add from your side?

Chad and Matt covered a lot there. They did cover a lot of that. I mean we're saying thing capacity just more equipment, more of your product, more of your innovation, creativity. We have to -- we need to take on the challenge of -- the labor market is -- it's diminishing from that perspective. So we got to move stuff into manufacturing. You touched on that. But if I want to touch on something that just maybe a little bit different here. For me, it's trust, partnership, predictability that's key for any partner we want to work with, right? We want to make sure that what you say you're going to do, we want predictability and an openness and transparency. And I think we have that currently, and it's been a great journey so far, but that's -- on top of everything as you said, those are the 3 key things that we...

Yes. I think on that note, too, this bringing together those relationships. The conversion of energy and technology, I mean, it's always been there, but it's at a scale and importance today that we haven't seen at least in my lifetime. And so understanding those unique aspects and how we bring them together, we were talking earlier, I mean, I'm just -- I'm a metallurgical engineer, so kind of dumb steel guy, right? So like I get that. But like the electrical stuff fascinates me. I look at what we're doing. We're kind of taking existing technologies to solve the problem today, but I'm pretty sure looking at it like there's going to need to be pretty significant changes. Is batteries the right solution for managing dynamic loads are super capacitors something that we can scale up and make more effective? Like what are the technologies? We are truly kind of using what we've got today to solve a problem of the future. And so I think us all understand each other's needs, limitations, capabilities better, like it takes bringing together the kinds of companies we have here today. So I think Alan is exactly right.

Integrated partnerships, that's key. We have to codesign this because Again, we're recreating like how we should think about scaling out grade technologies and energy in the world.

And also understanding that as you grow, there will be growing pains. Nobody is perfect. And so when we -- the relationship, just to both your points, the relationship matters so much to us. Everybody is going to have issues. There's everything -- we're all going to experience those times where something goes bump in the middle of the night. It really comes down to how we handle and partner and solve for whatever that challenge is together.

I mean seeing also here at the audience, I mean, I get a lot of questions in terms of how so are you that this is a really demand which is there for the long term, can this bubble burst. What would be your answer to that in terms of what are the growth factors you look on and what gives you the, let's say, the comfort in terms of what's this continuing journey also put this really tremendous situation, which we have at the moment a bit into perspective.

Yes, I can start. I mean, first, I've never bet against our innovation and technology companies. Our energy industry has created some of the most incredible advances around the world. And there are 2 fundamentals that our business is aligned run. At the end of the day, we're an energy infrastructure company. We're very focused on natural gas. We have a renewables and new energy Ventures business as well. but we see the need for natural gas today at scale because of 2 important fundamentals. First, what we're trying to solve for is clean, reliable affordable. Like those are the 3 we think, most important elements of an energy system. Now we've introduced this need for speed. Like that's the fourth element that has really shown up fast. But there are 2 primary fundamentals and I mentioned them. The first is the increase in demand and infrastructure not keeping up with it. and the grid and power production in the U.S. not having grown. So when you think about this incredible -- I mean I saw a report that said robotics may surpass within the next 10 years, the need for power, may surpass data center needs. I think they're both going to grow incredibly. One of your team members was showing me a video. I keep thinking these are like AI-generated videos of robots doing things like -- he actually -- it's really like -- but the number of motors that it takes to power a robot and the amount of power that that's going to require, like I think we're at just such an amazing time. And I still think that the constraints are likely going to keep us throttled from reaching the full ultimate potential. So I'm certainly confident that this is not a 5-year opportunity that this is the next generation, and it's going to be up to us to deliver to get us to full potential for, frankly, the next decade -- multi-decades.

Yes, very good. Before you go there, I mean, also if there is, let's say, specific questions out of the audience, just raise the hand. I will try to sneak it in. We might have time for 1 or 2 questions there. But maybe from your side.

Yes. No, we sit on top of the world's largest data center market in Dominion Energy. It's referred to as data center alley, larger than the next 5 domestic markets combined, larger than the next 4 international markets combined. So it's a big market, and we've also been doing it for a long time. We've been serving data centers since the nascence of the Internet. So that's given us a lot of intelligence in terms of how these customers grow, how they ramp into their capacity, that is how their demand, what spins a meter actually ramps up to the capacity that has been requested by the sites by each site. So that certainly gives us quite a background that substantiates our forecast. But in addition to that, I'll just talk from a transmission perspective, the types of demand we have coming into our system. For the past 3 years or so, and this actually goes back a little bit longer. But for the past 3 years, we've had 70 or more requests for large loads to connect to our system per year. 2 years ago, it's about 74 last year, about the same. This year, we have more than 90 requests for large loads to connect to our system. At the same time, those requests are becoming larger and larger. I expect this year, those 90-plus requests to amount to over 20 gigawatts of capacity, whereas last year, it was 15 and the year before that, it was 10. So we're seeing -- and you mentioned it, we're seeing kind of this saturation of demand as it's impacting our system. So I think it will be with us for quite a long while.

Okay. Alan from your side.

Yes. We get this bubble question quite a bit. I think you have to think of -- I'll go at it from a technology perspective, right? So 30 years ago, I started using the Internet. I didn't imagine what the Internet would do for me 20 years later, how we have these little devices in our hand and our entire lives are wrapped around these devices, right? Where do we -- who do we talk to how we get our information, how do we buy food, how do we book flights and hotels, like nobody would have guessed that. I would imagine maybe some geniuses did right? But 30 years ago when the Internet came up and I dialed up into AOL, I did not imagine today that we would have this thing with us. It's the same thing with AI, right? AI has been around for a while. We've had some forms of AI through our software throughout our tech as well as if you look in the industry. But it wasn't until 3 years ago where people really felt that this was going to become something. And so if you believe in the technology and the difference between what we had at the Internet of Things and cloud as well as where we're headed with AI particular systems and technology, it is a shift between heavy storage, low compute to high compute, low storage. And the biggest difference between that is about 200x more power consumption in heavy compute versus storage training a machine to be able to think like a human being requires significantly more compute power than it ever did just have standard storage and cloud services. And so if you believe in the technology, what you've seen in the last 2 years, and if you can predict what this technology can do in robotics, what it can do in the way we work and the way that we engage with each other. I don't think it's a bubble.

Yes. I mean there's -- obviously, if we put it together, lots of opportunities. By the way, I'm looking right raise your hand in case you have a question, Phil, maybe we can get a microphone there in terms of opening up.

Yes. Thank you. This all sounds incredibly exciting. It also sounds very inflationary for power prices, I guess. We've got a lot of average consumers who are already struggling. So I'm wondering if thinking into the sort of near term, 2026, if politics could be one of those potential bumps in the road that you referred to.

Yes. I'll start on that. We spend a lot of time on that, and we serve virtually every market in the United States, including just got approval for the first pipeline to be built in New York City and over in over 15 years. Not an easy one. We tried once before. The project was stopped because of political opposition not because it wasn't necessary. You think about New England, New England has Boston, has the second highest energy prices behind only Tokyo around the globe. And Boston and Massachusetts sits less than 200 miles away from Northeast Pennsylvania where we can produce gas at the energy equivalent of $0.50 per gallon of gasoline. And yet -- and many times of the year, it's $1 per MMBtu for gas in Northeast Pennsylvania. It's $12 per MMBtu in Massachusetts. So in the natural gas side, at least for now, that is our affordability super power in markets that have introduced volatility that have introduced complex loads that have introduced intermittency. The ones that have managed price well have done that by balancing with natural gas. So we can actually do this here in the United States. We are the low-cost energy producer on the planet. It is a challenge of getting the infrastructure to where we need it from a market perspective. And so I actually think we can solve that. We need to keep scaling up nuclear and other technologies and bringing down the cost curve. We've got to bring down the cost curve of fuel cells. And we just have to recognize that it is going to take innovation and technology to do it. The good news is demand also helps. One of the problems we've had in the U.S. is we've been investing in the energy system, but we haven't been growing demand for 25 years. And when you aren't growing the denominator, but you are growing the CapEx numerator, costs are going to go up for the consumer. And so I am hopeful that we can grow demand alongside our technology opportunities and also do that in a way that won't increase cost to consumers. If we do it right, this should actually improve our energy systems and actually reduce cost, increase reliability. I mean we see an equation that absolutely can be solved on that front.

Any views from your side in terms of your politics getting in the way or...

In Virginia last year, about a year ago, a study was issued by the Joint Legislative audit review committee, essentially an independent committee that creates reports for our legislature that actually looked at this question, are data centers paying -- are large loads paying their fair share. And they actually found that in our case, they were, but to further insulate residential and other customer classes from the costs associated with upgrading the grid to handle these new large loads. We're actually proposing right now, it's before our State Corporation Commission in Virginia, a specialized large load customer class, we call it our GSV customer class. And that starts to incorporate upfront deposits for large loads that want to interconnect into our system, deposits that cover the upfront capital costs for major substation equipment and then essentially take-or-pay contracts that extend out for 14 years or so. So there's a lot of focus on affordability. We see that, and we're trying to bring forward solutions to make sure that, that numerator, denominator equation works out as we invest in the grid and these large load customers, these data centers, they have that demand that goes into the denominator that it ends up penciling out so that it holds our residential customer classes harmless, so to speak.

Anything further to add?

I mean they covered it. I think Chad could probably validate my statement here, but we don't pass any of our infrastructure costs down to any residential customers.

And on that note, I would say I think we're even working together to figure out how we can better support the residential customers. So I think we've got to educate policymakers and the public at large. We can do this in a way that's good for everyone.

I think it's definitely because I think the narrative is also driven by concerns. However, at the same time, you also have to see once electricity demand is growing, it gives you a straight lever actually to get the specific cost where it needs to be. Problem is if electricity is not growing. And then you build an infrastructure, which is not fully used. And the other thing is definitely the question is how interconnected are really these markets. And I think this is what we're all trying to learn at the moment still. There was another there.

Marc Bianchi with TD Cowen. I guess there's a lot of discussion about how much of this type of power supply will come behind the meter. And I'm curious, particularly, Alan, for your perspective because you guys have elected to go with Entergy and be part of the grid. How is that decision process? Like how are you considering additional projects that could be behind the meter or not behind the meter, what are some of the considerations that you make?

Yes. We will always prioritize grid-connected energy. But at the pace of those projects and those deployments and the schedules associated with it, we have to leverage different solutions, right, specifically within the near term. So in Louisiana, we had an entire 18 months to plan for that cluster. And when I say planning, we went down selected sites. We were very selective in the partners we wanted to partner with in the locations. And that was the plan we put together because we saw this coming a couple of years ago. What we didn't see coming was we needed significantly more capacity in the near term. We're halfway too short when we thought about that being our mega cluster that's going to solve some of these issues for us. We're far behind from that perspective. And so in the near term, in order to get that type of capacity, we're leaning very heavily on behind-the-meter type solution. So you're going to see significantly more of that from us, and I would say the industry as well over the next 24 months until we can be within our lead time to supply energy to our data centers from the grid.

Last question maybe to Ben.

This is a really big picture question. I mean, all of you gentlemen seem to have done this for some time. If we look back in history at these big cycles, if you look at what was happening in that, say, that dash for gas period back in 9802, you had deregulation, you had huge power demand. You had private financing. This gentleman mentioned take-or-pay contracts, which I remember well. How do you see the fundamental underpinning of this particular cycle versus what was happening 25 years ago?

Yes, I'll start. I mean, Williams built 1/3 of the nation's telecommunications backbone and fiber in the late '90s, and it almost bankrupted the company. And so we know those challenges well. I mean we're an infrastructure company, and you always have to. And Christian talked about it, and we're talking to seems about how do we make sure we plan capacity so that we're not overbuilding and so that we're building and matching kind of the needs. But I will say, we've spent a lot of time looking at the fundamentals. We're behind on infrastructure. We're behind on energy production capabilities. The use case is real. I'll just give you an example for us. I mean we are one of the largest energy marketing in the United States. And we -- it's a very complex operation to move energy. We had a competition in the company where in just 1 market, on just one asset in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, we had kids volunteer across the company to program AI to compete with a physical trader that's been moving energy in the Dallas-Fort Worth area for 10 years. We did it for a month. At the end of the month, we did a look back 100 -- a score of 100 would have been perfect, execution, you predicted the weather, you predict the demand, price here in there. And the physical trader score of 93, a kid who had never heard of energy marketing before score of 96 with 6 AI models that he was -- and it was a light ball moment for me because we always think of, hey, we're going to adopt version 1 of the technology. And then in a few years, we're going to adopt version 2 like no, this is like someone going back and -- it's like an F1 pit crew. Every time the car comes around the track, he was changing different input variables and the model was learning and getting smarter like we're just scratching the surface on what we can even do for our own company, not to mention what incredible new products are going to be created for our society. And so -- but I will tell you that as a whole, I think we're having very smart conversations about sizing the capacity, whether it's manufacturing capacity or ultimately infrastructure capacity sizing that to be right for the moment.

I would say, at a very high level, it's -- we're requiring more and more pillars to support this large load. Let me unpack that. There are really 4 things that we need to support and serve the types of demand that we see coming on to the electric grid. The first 2 have been around for a while. Everybody knows you need the substation, right, to connect the load too. That's pretty clear. No bottleneck there, no -- very little time, lead time needed to make that happen. Also, what we've needed forever are the, what I'll call, local transmission upgrades to serve that load, right? You might need to reconductor a line. You might need to add another circuit those types of things, relatively local transmission. And for, I would say, probably the first decade or so of the -- of what we've seen on our system of data center growth, those 2 pillars held up the large load. What we're starting to see now are the additional pillars of backbone infrastructure, those large EHV projects. I wouldn't be surprised if HVDC comes on to the scene in a larger way. and then also generation. It's really important to realize that you're not going to wire your way out of this type of load growth. There also needs to be intentional, thoughtful investments in planning and constructing the generation. So those are really the 4 pillars that are needed to serve the types of load growth that we have today. And those all sit on a foundation of a strong supply chain supply chain that leverages partnerships and forecasts. You need the outages. That's the big thing right now is when you -- to expand the grid, you need the outages to get the new infrastructure cut in. That's the proverbial the proverbial orange cones on the grid that you would see just like a highway lane addition. But then also you need the permits as well. So those are the foundations that hold up those 4 pillars and it's all becoming more and more complex as the demand increases.

Anything to add, Alan?

No, I think it's a great question. I mean, again, it's continual learning, right? It's -- do you see an end to this? I think that's the real question is this, do you see an end? I mean do we see then and learning constantly learning as human beings. Imagine now we're constantly reinforcing that learning in a machine so that it increases our engagement and products. It increases our own intelligence, it increases productivity. That's very compute-intensive to have constant reinforcement learning, right? So pretraining is one thing. Pretraining will come will build these large sort of language models that are going to be -- require these large clusters. We're going to we can update them over and over and over again. And we're going to create data over and over and again. And so that requires a significant amount of compute. I don't see it slowing down. I see if you believe in the technology, and you think this is going to happen, and we're going to leverage this in our everyday lives and how we work and how we engage with each other, like I said already, I don't see this slowing down. And we're going to need the infrastructure to support that.

Excellent. Maybe to wrap it up and very quickly only as a rapid fire, the magic wand question, right? I mean, if you have a magic wand, I mean, would you like to change.

I'd like us to get back to building at a pace. I mean, I think Governor Perry said it last night, this is -- I wasn't around for the Manhattan project. He's a bit older than I am. So my reference would be maybe like even the moon, Apollo 11, I mean, I went to Purdue and think about the space program like this is an incredible opportunity for our generation. we got to get back to building at a scale we just haven't in a long time.

Very good.

Capacity and capability.

Likewise, same thing.

Very good. Thanks very much. I mean, it was really a fantastic panel, and I have to say, for me, it's a summary. I mean, obviously, if we do it right, we collaborate, right, and build jointly that industry. Thank you very much for being part of it. Thanks for the trust and the collaboration. It was great to have you. Thanks for the discussion. Thank you. Thanks, Chad. All the [ panel, ] thank you very much. Matt, great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Alan, thank you very much.

So thank you, everybody. I think wow, that was really an exciting first part of the Capital Market Day. Unbelievable that the first 2 hours went already by. So now for the participants here, good news. We have roughly until 11 for a break. So we're going to be back. That's especially important for the webcast. We're going to be back online at 11:00 U.S. time. And so far, all the participants here in the room, I mean, you can stay outside. We're going to have some teams there who are going to present at the information booth, if you have any additional questions in regards to the different BAs. Please meet the teams outside. They are really happy to welcome you. And everybody online, I see you back at 11. And even though the first half was very exciting, you can be ensured that the second part will be as exciting as the first part. So see you later then. Thank you very much. [Break]

Well, I hope you all had some time to recap what we just saw before. I thought it was really good for start. But yes, it's going to continue to be exciting. So now in the second part, we're going to start out with Karim Amin, who is heading our gas service business. So Karim, please come on stage.

So good morning, everybody, and welcome from my side. I am Karim Amin, I'm heading the Gas Services business within Siemens Energy. I've been in the company for almost 25 years, always in the energy and rotating equipment business, did a lot in service, many years in service, but also was running our global sales for quite some time. The oil and gas business segment and also was responsible for the product business before I took over the role in the Board. I want to start in the next 20 minutes to take you through the Gas Services story in Siemens Energy. And I want to really start by saying we see gas like this video has -- did the introduction. We see gas as the backbone of the energy markets today. It gives the world what it needs most, which is the quick to deploy. Gas is one of the fastest technologies that can be deployed in scale. It's reliable, 24/7. And it's also giving all the dispatchability features that are very critical as we see more and more countries building renewables and crossing 50% of their generation capacity from renewables. For these qualities we believe that gas is indispensable, not only today but also in the future. The market is not just strong. The market is accelerating. And I think we have seen a number of insights of this through the panel discussion today. Since fiscal year '22, the market grew by 40% to 85 gigawatt per annum of gas installation by the end of fiscal year '25. And we believe that this momentum is going to continue further picking the market anywhere from 90 to 100 or even plus depending on really the scenario of the adoption of AI and to which extent this is going to kick off. And it will stay elevated for years to come. I think the most important message that I really want to give here is that there is more than one driver for this elevated market. Definitely, AI and the fast adoption and the exponential growth of data centers is a very important driver. But it's not the only driver. We also see a lot of countries pushing for electrification in general. Many countries are going still through massive coal-to-gas chips. The grid stability and reliability requirements is really sitting as well in the center of all that, and pure urbanization and economic development. Opportunities are massive and they are also global, not concentrated in one geography or in one country. I just put a few insights of the latest opportunities we see. We are in the United States and the U.S., of course, is going through a massive push towards adding more capacity, electrical capacity and gas is in the center of it. In the next 5 years, we've seen different reports. We talk to different people, but it is really safe to say that there is 250 gigawatt at least that is needed in the U.S. in the next 5 years. And this is not only data centers. The U.S. is also going through grid stability requirements as well as shifting from coal in many parts of the country. Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates are having their own country strategic programs like Vision 2030 in Saudi Arabia or the ambition of the UAE to be the center of AI outside of the U.S. And there, there is around 50 gigawatt that is being either in discussion and being awarded right now or plan to be awarded in the next 2 to 3 years. We have a line of sight of that. We see it. We are bidding there, and we are even winning there. You also see what is happening in Germany and in Eastern Europe. There, there's a lot of push towards sustainability and getting out of coal. Germany just announced last weekend, finally, the program to put as a start 10 gigawatts of gas-fired power plants that would help to phase out coal. And it doesn't stop only at the 10 gigawatts. This is the first phase. We see similar trends in Eastern Europe, in Poland, in Czech Republic and the likes. Taiwan is also a country where there's a lot happening. And here, you see another trend of phasing out of nuclear and replacing this with gas-fired power plants plus, of course, all the semiconductor business that is happening. If you put this all in one basket and then think also about what needs to happen post war, in some of the economies and geographies that needs to be reconstructed again, think about Iraq, think about Ukraine. When the time comes, think about Syria and the likes. So there is also like 60 gigawatts we see in the next 5 years in between these countries. So let's see how fiscal year '25 looked like for us. For Siemens Energy Gas Services, we were not just watching or following this trend of market growth, we were leading it. We have doubled our numbers of gas turbines sold in fiscal year '25. A year earlier, we sold 100 gas turbines. In '25, we sold 194 gas turbines. This is, without doubt, #1 in the market share. And all in all, we put 78 gigawatts. If you count fiscal year '24, fiscal year '25 and what we have secured in fiscal year '25 that will turn into concrete orders in fiscal year '26. And this is only a portion of fiscal year '26. We are still in the first quarter of the fiscal year. So 78 gigawatts has been secured, and this is really a big number. And you see in the slide in front of you, across multiple frames, right? So we are active in large gas, medium gas, aero derivatives as well as small gas. And if I really want to leave you with one point, why do we have this strong market position, why did we perform in fiscal year '25, the way we did. It's definitely our strategic diversification. We are really well diversified across market applications. We're not selling into one application only. You see the pie chart going from conventional to data centers to power ships and picking applications as well as FPSOs for oil and gas, which is very, very in high demand here in the U.S., in the Gulf of Mexico and others, but also across regions. So we are very active in the North America, in Europe, in the Middle East as well as in the Asia Pacific region. Let me illustrate with 2 examples. I think Williams gave a very good overview in the last panel's discussion. Take the William opportunity and relationship where they are building 5 gigawatts for powering AI. And this we did across multiple frames. We're having F classes. We're having SGT-800s, we're having aero derivatives that is all being delivered in a fast manner, and it also helps to find the best configuration of redundancy, of flexibility and managing different load regimes. The same goes into another example in Taiwan, where with our customer Mai Liao and Kuo Kuang were putting 6 of our HL gas turbines. This is the largest gas turbine we have in our fleet to really power a 3-gigawatt effort to revamp the semiconductor industry, but also to support this coal-to-gas shift momentum that I talked to you about. So let us go to this slide, I call it the growth engine, and I want to really put the 78 gigawatts that we have secured in our backlog a little bit in prospects and show you how the 78 gigawatts is really going to create value now, but also for decades to come. The 78 gigawatt is our new units backlog. So this is the backlog that would turn into revenue in the next 2 to 3 years. But this is not just volume, this is a backlog that comes with above-average margins, driven by 3 very important drivers that you see in front of you. First, it is coming with favorable pricing. So the pricing points of the new unit is higher than what we have in our existing backlog. It also gives us because of its sheer volume, a lot of benefits in terms of degression -- cost degression. And then it is accretive. So we are seeing projects with higher gross margins coming into our backlog as we are also seeing projects which are already in our existing backlog with lower gross margins phasing out. So when you look at this thing altogether, this backlog will be the primary driver in the next 2 to 3 years that will help us to achieve our targets of margin expansion. But this is only the new unit story, and it does not stop here. Beyond fiscal year '28, where we are, of course, right now focusing as it's our planning period, and this is where we give our guidance. Beyond that, only the 78 gigawatts opens the door for us for up to EUR 30 billion of potential service revenue because these units will go into a 20-year cycle of service. And the more gigawatts we add, the more this growth engine will work harder. Just to give you an example of the momentum, the 78 gigawatts 6 weeks ago was 70. So in the first 6 weeks of this fiscal year, we added 8 gigawatts to our backlog. So this is how fast this is growing. This is how big the impact is going to be. And let us just see how is this projecting itself already in fiscal year '25. In fiscal year '25, we booked almost EUR 23 billion of order entry. 40% of this was in new units, 60% was in service. And you see that the margins in the backlog is really climbing. So on the new unit side, we have improved our backlog margin by 5 percentage points. And on the service side, we have improved it by 1 percentage point. But of course, you also -- you always have to remember the service backlog is a very big backlog because it has all the LTPs for many, many years to come. So moving the backlog of service by 1 percentage point is actually a big deal. With this, we have reached an all time [indiscernible] of our backlog of EUR 54 billion, which gives us 9 billion more than what we had a year earlier and gives us a very strong foundation for what is yet to come. This growth engine, I just showed you is really the backbone of our upgraded financial outlook that we have announced last week. We start from fiscal year '25 with a very strong position. As you see in fiscal year '25, we have a revenue growth of 14%, and we have already reached a profit margin of 13%. And we are raising the bar, as Christian said, in fiscal year '26, we expect revenue growth between 16% and 18% and profit margin between 14% and 16%. This is well above our previous guidance in fiscal year '26, which was 10% to 12%. Just to put this all in perspective, in fiscal year '24, our profit was 9.5%. So in a period of 4 years, we are well on track to double our profit margins from 9.5% to almost 18% to 20%. This is not really just growth. This is for us a step change in our profitability that is starting as we speak, and will stay with us for years and years to come because the backlog has the potential to deliver this result. And now let's see how we can turn this ambition into reality. And we will take this view now on 4 key pillars that I will explain in more details in the remaining slides. We have defined 4 key pillars in front of you, which is investing in our portfolio to make sure that we always stay ahead in terms of innovation and technology and have the best portfolio there is in the market. Second, we are expanding our capacity in a very intelligent and disciplined way that fires the entire portfolio to the best of our ability. And we have defined very clear principles of how to do this, on one hand side to match the market demand. And you heard a lot about the market demand in the previous panel. On the other hand side, to remain within the boundaries of a healthy business that is sustainable and does not get prone to any shocks in the market. Third, we are strengthening our execution excellence to make sure that we are able to deliver on what we promise, and we are investing to eliminate any bottlenecks in manufacturing or in supply chain or in people. And last, but certainly not least, we are creating the long-term value for our business. And Maria talked about this in very, very clear words. It's all about creating the long-term value of our business, elevating our service business potential to new heights and working to really secure long-term, profitable, predictable service revenues that will stay with us for decades to come. Now let's take a closer look at each and every one of these 4 pillars. And I would start with the portfolio. We invest EUR 500 million per annum in our portfolio to make sure that we have the best portfolio there in the industry. And this investment is certainly paying off. I'm really proud to say that we are the only player that has a very comprehensive portfolio in the industry that ranges from 10 megawatts to 1,000 megawatts. That goes from small gas turbines all the way to nuclear steam turbines that serves conventional nuclear, 1,000 megawatts steam turbine up and the latest addition is our SMR. This portfolio is leading in the market, and our customers are choosing us for that. Let me give you a few highlights on 4 of these portfolio elements, and I will start with our SGT-800. That's the 60 megawatt turbine that is really now the industry standard in many industrial applications. In fiscal year '25, we had 90% market share for this gas turbine in its segment. And we tripled our numbers of units sold from 29 units in fiscal year '24 to 88 units in fiscal year '25, and that trend continues. So already fiscal year '26 is starting on very high notes. Our F-class is the best in its class when it comes to flexibility, very, very highly regarded, especially in data center applications, very much needed when it comes to simple cycle applications and peaking. Again, here, we increased fiscal year '25 by 50%, going to 30-plus units sold versus 20, and we are commanding a market share north of 37%. Our H Class is the largest gas turbine in our portfolio. And this goes between 50 cycle and 60 from 400-plus megawatt to above almost 600 megawatts. This turbine holds the Guinness World record in power output and efficiency. And if you walk a little bit in the facility here, you would see the certification of the Guinness World book of record around us. We have already sold 65 units of HL, 15 of them are in operation. And being in Charlotte is very significant because the first HL gas turbine has been manufactured in this facility here in Charlotte. And it has been sold to our Duke customer, not far from here and thoroughly tested in a very strategic and close collaboration with Duke in the Lincoln County power plant nearby from here. And when I look at the nuclear, and you heard a lot about nuclear and how nuclear is in its renaissance, we have 2 important portfolio elements. We have the large steam turbine, the 1,000 megawatts which is really used for conventional nuclear power plants. And today, we have 80 gigawatts of fleet already running with this turbine that offers us a lot of potential for upgrades and lifetime extension. But we also have our newest addition, which is our 500-megawatt SMR steam turbine. This is the one that will go into the exclusive strategic partnership with Rolls-Royce. And just also by coincidence last weekend, the U.K. government has announced that Rolls-Royce with our steam turbine will be awarded the first 3 nuclear SMR installation in North of Wales. So that's a very broad portfolio that is really hunting in the market, but having the best portfolio without being able to scale up and meet our customers' demand and the market requirements is not really serving us well. Hence, capacity expansion was a very important topic. And let me tell you how we are doing capacity expansion to meet market demand. First of all, this breadth of portfolio that I showed you gives us really a lot of flexibility to increase our capacity across different frames and not really focused on one frame only. It's not about adding more units or about volume. It's really about a very disciplined and well thought through process to understand and to target where to expand which portfolio element for which market and customer base by what? And this is what we call the dynamic capacity expansion. And we have defined very clear rules of doing it. We call it The 4 golden rules. First, we are scaling up within existing footprints. So we really look at what we have, whether it's in Charlotte or it's in Berlin or Finspong or different parts of the world, and we are focusing on getting the maximum out of this footprint. Second, every investment we do must have a very high relevance of service, meaning if we are investing right now in expanding blade production, the blade production is not only needed for the new units, it's also needed for the 20 years service requirements that I showed you in the growth engine. Then we are really looking at expanding specific portfolio elements where we can demand premium pricing, where this unit is in high demand and the price is high enough that it pays for this -- pays for its business case. And last but certainly not least, and Christian stressed on that, we really look at the short payback period. How many years do we need to get back our investment on fixed cost? So this has been already in our focus and the first phase of capacity expansion has been already implemented. And this is the phase where we moved from the 17 gigawatts, which was our capacity a year ago to this 22 average capacity between fiscal year '25 and fiscal year '27. This has been already announced, I believe you all know about it, and this has been already implemented. Today, we are in Phase #2. And Phase #2 is to take this further that by fiscal year '28 to fiscal year '30, we are going to anywhere between 210 units to 230 units across the various frames I showed you, and that's why you see the different color shades which is something in the range of 30 gigawatts give or take. And this is going to be implemented in a very flexible and dynamic way. And let me just give you a few examples to show you how we are doing this. I want to start with our LGT, the large gas turbines. And you will have the facility tour in the afternoon. We will start. We are right now in the process of doing it. We will start manufacturing and assembling our F-class frame here in Charlotte, again. And as you go into your factory tour, I really encourage you to pay attention to the assembly pits of these F Classes. We have 3 assembly pits in this site here. And we always have them. But when we were rightsizing, we kept the provision, but we were not using them. Now we are able to use them and get more units out of Charlotte. Our MGT is the second example, this SGT-800. You saw that we have tripled the orders between '24 and '25, and it's a 90% market share. We will double it because we have concrete fixed offtake demand from customers that are signing binding contracts right now for deliveries well in '29 and beyond. And last but not least, you might all remember our Rolls-Royce acquisition. We have our A65 aero derivative gas turbine. This is -- was used more and more for LNG as a mechanical drive. Today, it's one of the most sought through machines for data centers, but also for peaking applications. Part of the Williams agreement that we did was putting these A65 units back, we are also pushing the envelope to bring this A65 back into the market. Third one is driving execution excellence. We have a very, very holistic approach when it comes to execution excellence. We look from sales all the way to delivery. It is really all about selecting the right order with the right risk profile. If you look at our order mix, we have a very healthy order entry mix, more than our -- more than 85% of our units right now in order is product scope. So this minimizes risks and maximizing standardization. We prioritize multiunit deals, which gives us really the chance to optimize our execution and focus our execution capabilities in a few areas. And we have a very strong regional and frame diversification, as I showed you in our order mix of fiscal year '25. Resilient manufacturing and supply chain is really a topic that we take very, very serious. Again, how to get more out of what we have. We have managed in Charlotte, and you will see it again today when you go into the factory tour, 45% manufacturing hours per square meter is coming out of Charlotte, with very, very little fixed cost behind it. Christian talked about the Capital Injection Ceramics acquisition, that will open the blades and veins supply chain for us to new horizons. And of course, we constantly upgrade our machines and make sure that they are fit for purpose. And last but not least, we invest in people. We have already a very strong expert team, more than 7,400 experts are NGS. We added last fiscal year 4,700 people, and we are opening new talent hubs in different parts of the world, in Mexico, and Romania and India. And of course, our Net Promoter Score at 70 points is really placing us at the top tier of our industry, and it's a strong sign of confidence from our customers that they like what we do, and they continue to work with us. All this strong focus on execution excellence is really driving results and delivering EUR 400 million of productivity in fiscal year '25, and we expect this to continue with us in the next years. And then comes my favorite slide, and this is service. The whole business accelerates when we look at service. Today, we are supporting and operating 700 gigawatts of service fleet, 50% of it is on baseload. This service fleet is already seeing 2 percentage point better utilization versus last year. And there was a question to Christian about renewal rates? More than 90% of our LTPs are being renewed. This is already a huge growth opportunity. However, in the next 5 years, we are adding even more units, 180 gigawatt is expected to be added in the next 5 years. 50% of this has been already secured. And these new units are advanced high-value assets that runs for critical applications like data centers and offshore. So we expect them to come with 80% baseload. This will see our service backlog growing rapidly and we'll see synergies as we are managing a larger installed base, and we also expect that the power of AI tools that has been more and more available to us today will help us to extract more value out of this fleet. And then I want to end it here with our Elevate program, and I want to leave you with 3 key messages. Gas Services is the market leader in fiscal year '25 with the gigawatts and the number of units it secured across the frames and geographies and applications. We are expanding our capacity with discipline, and we will add 180 gigawatts of additions by fiscal year 2030, and it's all about accelerating our long-term value creation with this turbocharge service engine that I showed you earlier. And to reinforce our commitment, we are raising our fiscal year '28 targets with revenue growth of mid-teens and profit margin of 18% to 20%. I hope that this gave you an overview of Gas Services. Thank you so much, and I will be available for questions after the presentation of Tim. And now allow me to hand over to Tim Holt for the Grid Technologies. Thank you.

So good morning, and I think you saw it was a blackout in Spain, why we really need reliable modern grids and why are they the backbone of our energy system. And that's what we do in Grid Technologies. We connect the renewables, we make sure the grids are resilient and reliable. And that's part of the portfolio. That's what 20,000 employees in Grid Technology today after day, quarter after quarter, and that's how we tackle the growth. My name is Tim Holt. I'm the Head of Grid Technologies, 30 years with the company. I think I've seen all the BAs, but I have to say, this is my sixth Capital Market Day. It's one of the most exciting ones because I think we have a great story on Grid Technologies, and let me take you through it over the next 20 minutes. So I can clearly see Grid Technologies and Siemens Energy, we are the leader on the transmission side. And let me give you 3 numbers. We're serving over 2,000 customers. And you saw the panel. I think if you looked at a panel 10 years ago, you would have seen 3 [indiscernible], maybe different sizes, but it's all utility TSO. But here, you have also seen Alan from Meta on the hyperscaler. You have seen Chad from the developer side, and that's really the breadth of the customer base we have developed over the last years. Also a large part of the installations, every fifth power transformer is from Siemens Energy. 30% of the HVDCs are from us, and that has really resulted in a record order backlog over the last years. If you look at the last 2 years, '23 to '25, 2x in order backlog, up to EUR 42 billion. If you go back 2 prior years, if you go '21 to '25, it's 4x. And what's really important to also look at the mix because the question came earlier, part of it is a solution, but also great part is products and it's also digital services. And I think the great part is, it gives us a multiyear revenue and cash generation visibility. And with that mix, I think we have a really good healthy outlook what the future is going to bring. Now let's talk a bit about the big picture, and I think you heard at the age of electricity is there. And it's once in a generation grid buildout. If I look at the left side, you see the grid investments. Over the next 15 years, it's over $10 trillion that are being spent over that time on the grid. And we try to break it down a bit into the different categories because I think it's not just the demand growth that's really driving this or the renewable, the energy transition, but also replacements. And let's start at the top. When I see customers, I always ask a question, what is the age of your transformer fleet. And mostly, it's kind of in the mid-30s. And then I say, okay, tell me how many -- what's the percentage above 40 years? And I would say 90-plus percent of the customers will tell you, 50% of the transformer fleet is over 40 years old. So there's a huge replacement potential, and I think we're uniquely positioned to benefit from it over the next 15 years. Then of course, you have the energy transition, right? I mean, still, we're adding the largest source of generation growth comes from the renewables. All these electrons need to flow from where they are generated, be it solar, be it wind, to where the load centers are. And those could be substations. You heard that earlier on the panel. This is HVDC line, and it requires a lot of grid stabilization effects of STATCOMs. And then the biggest portion is really demand growth. And it's not just data centers. It comes from all parts of the industry, and that's about 60% what's needed. All in all, if you look at it, about 80 million kilometers of additional grids need to be built over that time or replaced. So I think the market gives really a tremendous opportunity over the 15 years, and it goes back to how long is this cycle I think if you look at these investments and what's needed to really keep the grid going and keep the energy transition going and the build-out grid will be a key part to make that happen. So if you kind of break it down, what's the addressable market that we look at as Siemens Energy and Grid Technologies? How do I look at the market? How do I look at the different regions? Upper left side, you see that the addressable market more than doubled from '22 to '24. So that's also a reflection of how you've seen our entry growth going from EUR 10 million to over EUR 20 billion. But I think the remarkable thing is going forward, and I'm not going to 2040, that's too far away, but just to 2030, we see a very, very healthy 7% annual growth rate in our addressable market. And then kind of -- it's also very regional and there's different drivers in the different regions. And if you look at the right-hand side, you see the U.S. really ready to take off. I hope you also heard it in the panel and in the various discussions. It's driven by data center, it's driven by good stabilization, more and more renewables coming online, aging infrastructure. All these 3 factors are driving the U.S. market over the next years going forward. Europe, a bit slower. But remember, that market has seen in the last years that tremendous growth, a lot of that market doubling came from Europe. We see more and more of the data center build-out also coming, aging infrastructure but also all these requests, can I connect more renewables? Can I connect batteries? Can I connect data centers? The queues are also building up in Europe. And then the third region, Middle East, we talked a lot about Saudi, it's also the data centers are picking up there, but it's also the renewables build-out, aging infrastructure. And then, of course, China, India, massive opportunity through the renewable build-outs, various projects currently ongoing in India, HVDC lines, I think the numbers up to 9,000 kilometers of HVDC in India. So you can see this is not just one market we are looking at. It gives us the flexibility to shift capacity where needed. And also you look at geopolitics, you look at exchange risk, you look at tariffs, I think it also gives you a good picture that around the globe, our products and solutions are needed. So demand, what does it mean? Solutions are kicking in high gear. And we also heard it before. On the left side, this is how we look at our solution market. We have the HVDC, these long offshore connection of offshore wind farms, but also bringing power across large parts of the land from where the load is generated with renewables to where it's needed. Compared to what we have seen in '22 to '24, and I fast forward to '28 to '30 to kind of give you a bit of a longer outlook. That market is going to double. And why do we like HVDC? Because it usually takes 5 to 7 years to implement a project, very good in terms of revenue visibility, cash generation. So also there are quite some tremendous opportunity, 3 big players in that market. We've got a very healthy market share that's above 30%. It's also very good. Then the substations, also 2x growth. It's a larger market. It's going to be over EUR 100 billion, more players in it, a bit more local, a little bit shorter visibility on the revenue recognition, but a large portion of our products go into that business. About 60% to 70% of the order entry on a substation is actually based on our product business where it got we put switchgear, where we put transformers in it. And then I was really happy to hear Chad talk about super capacitors also on the data centers, grid stabilization, that's semcons, that's STATCOM, that's eSTATCOMs with super capacitors. That is really the market that has been the fastest growing in the last 3 years. That will be needed more and more as the generation that comes on the grid is more intermittent. And that's also a big area where we just had a few players in the market and where we have a market-leading position. But it's not just about growth. It's about healthy growth. Growing the backlog is good, but we also have to be really focused. We have to be selective. Who do we work with? What terms and conditions do we accept, how do we standardize and we have to be laser focused on execution, on the supply chain, how do we make sure we put pass-throughs into the contract, how do we do the hedging on copper, steel, aluminum, what's in the contracts? How do we actively manage the headcount ramp-up and then also driving efficiencies. And I think the good thing is the more order backlog you have, the better you can actually drive productivity and pull that productivity through into margin expansion. So it's not just about riding the wave of demand, but really leading it and making sure we secure the projects with the customers and really drive that healthy order backlog on the solutions side. So let's shift a bit from the solution to the products. And I think on our table last night, lots of discussion about capacity expansion, how is the market going to look like? How is the market going to look like after '28, '30 plus? And what I tried to do on the left-hand side is really how we look at the market at the demand of large power transformers. Those are the ones who go into data centers, those go -- that connect data centers, those are the ones who actually also go into these large substations. And if you look at that market over the years, you could have -- you see that in '25, between what the market needs and what the -- what we have in the market in terms of capacity, there's a 40% gap. And I think where does it show up? Of course, a bit in pricing, but also in lead times. 3 years ago, a large power transformer standard lead time 2 years. Today, it's about 5 years. So we're taking the capacity, but it takes longer and longer to get there. And even if we fast forward and we did quite intensive market studies, even if we project it out to fiscal year '30 and we look at all the announcements from all our competitors, by the way, nobody has really announced a new factory, all expanding existing facilities. If you go through the announcements, we still believe there's going to be 10% gap in terms of demand to the capacity that's in the market. What have we done? So if I look back the last 3 years, EUR 600 million investments in new factories, transformers, switchgear that Christian talked about the new factory that we just opened last month in Saudi on the switching. We opened a new factory in Austria. We have expanded multiple factories to really increase capacity so already under the way. The other one is really all about how do we enhance the supply chain. We had quite a number of single source suppliers. We even had one that had a fire in this factory, Luckily, nothing happened, but that shows you also it's not just about capacity, but making sure your suppliers grow with the capacity expansion because otherwise, you might have the manufacturing capacity but not the procurement side that goes with it. The second one is really the outlook, and we heard it. We're going to invest over EUR 2 billion until '28 in capacity expansions across the globe, be it Nuremberg on the large transformer side to serve the HVDC market. We have -- we're expanding even in China to serve the market that provides Chinese. We're looking at Charlotte here, expanding, but also the switching here in the U.S. So massive investment in order to really get up to the curve that you see here, but still making sure we don't overinvest and create overcapacity in the market. The other important piece to that is it's not just about adding physical manufacturing, but also how do we optimize manufacturing. Christian showed the video on the switchgear, how we use automation in order to get more through. We're actually using also AI and data analytics to optimize testing procedures, that's normally bottleneck in a factory. So how do we get more transformers through the test field that we can actually produce more, same with the dying ovens that you need for transformers. Our goal is to basically create one additional factory just purely through automation and AI and have just more throughput through the existing ones. So also here, very careful, flexible expansion, improved operations to make sure we follow the market demand, but also don't overinvest in it that we create overcapacity. So this is not just about capacity investment. This is also about portfolio resilience. And you see the left side, I just talked about very strong profitable core, #1 in solutions, #1 in products, and we want to grow and expand that. But we're also looking what comes beyond it. And you also heard it on the panel, what's on everybody's mind, one is digital. It's about how do I use the grid better to get more electrons through it? There's quite a bit of inefficiencies in the grid. So it's how do you do analytics? How do you do more sensors, how do you get more load through the existing substations? How do I do software that helps the grid operator to operate it more efficiently, less curtailment. And a clear ambition in 2030, over EUR 1 billion in highly profitable and scalable and recurring revenues on the digital side. That's by growing our own business but also looking at M&A, how we can support it. The second piece that maybe is less prominent than in Karim's business is the service business. It's all about how do I upgrade aging infrastructure. Not all transformers will be replaced by new transformers depending where they sit, but it's also about refurbishment. How do I do these complex projects, HVDC facts, how do I do LTSAs that go with these type of solutions. So also there on the service side, we have done -- we have gotten a really good run on the service side over the last 3 years. But now it's all about doubling the current orders and setting the target to increase also the service share in the overall mix. So it's all about the future, higher quality earning mix, steadier cash flows, more recurring revenues and really, how do I get the cyclical out of the mix. This also comes with innovation. And I think that's also an important part to talk about and to really address what is keeping our customers awake at night. Affordability, sustainability and flexibility. And really looking at what can we do in terms of innovation to also help our customers and further drive the portfolio. We talked about the eSTATCOMs. You heard it on the panel. I think that's a good example. I talked a bit about digital. You see the little white box on the line. On the lower left, this is about what we call dynamic asset rating, basically taking measurements on the overhead lines to see how can I actually get more through these overhead lines and have the technology and the sensors and the data to help our customers together with software to predict what we can do. We talked about SF6-free, the blue portfolio, we have the new EU regulation coming in, kicking in 2030, basically saying no more SF6 on the switching side, also really a good uplift in terms of portfolio shift to a more technology-driven portfolio on the switchgear side. And then everybody talks about HVDC. Currently, those are point-to-point connections, but the future will really be about creating a DC grid where you can shift the power over long distances between different parts. There's a couple of pilots going on in Europe. But if you look longer term, probably beyond 2030, more towards 2035, we'll see these first multiterminal multi-vendor connections appearing in Europe that will really help to build out the HVDC. We're not doing this alone. I think the task in the industry is really tremendous. So this is our partnerships. I'm really proud that we have been working with NVIDIA over the last 3 years. And really, we're driving various initiatives with them, a, for future customer offerings, but also digital transformation. We're going to open our AI lab later this year in Orlando. We're going to have a cluster of GPUs, where we will help work with our customers to develop digital twins of the substations of their transformers and see how we can further improve their operations, which is one of the applications. I think the other one is also internally, how do we accelerate our R&D efforts, how do we use also the Omniverse suite to upgrade our factories in terms of automation and robotics. Same with Mitsubishi Electric. They're pretty leading on the DC grid with a DC breaker. We're having a partnership where we look what can we do jointly in order to really enhance that technology and drive it. So going forward, it's not just about us at Siemens Energy driving these innovations, it's also about the partnerships. So to sum it up, I think really important, we'll keep on growing and continue on the growth trajectory that you have seen in the past. More importantly, we will keep on executing. We have that strong order backlog. We said revenue growth. It's all about execution, execution, execution, the ramp-up in the factory, the headcount ramp-up that we need in order to execute and really investing more in the factories, the EUR 2 billion I talked about to make sure we also follow the market demand. And of course, we'll be enhancing our margins. We have the question. I think also driving the productivity, looking at the backlog, standardization, how can we really enhance the margins? And you've seen that in the fiscal year '28 targets. I think the revenue growth, what I've shown you with the markets, the order, you just have that natural progression then into revenue conversion and the target on the high teens, but also on the guidance for the midterm '28, 18% to 20%. Given what we have delivered in the past, given the current track record, we're very comfortable with that margin range and that will deliver. So disciplined execution, quality order growth and really keeping those strong margins from this healthy business. And with that, I'm looking forward to the questions. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Tim. Karim, if you would also come on stage. I mean, thanks so much, to you both. I mean, a very comprehensive presentation. So I guess there aren't actually any questions anymore in the room because we heard it all, but I've already heard there is some interest here. So therefore, let's kick it off and see if there are any questions. Vivek?

I have 2 questions for Karim, if I may. One question, one kind of clarification follow-up. The first question is around the service outlook. You highlighted earlier that the service story is not just to 2028. At the same time, we have the revenue guidance, mid-teens CAGR for the overall division. I was wondering if you could give us more color on the relative growth rates between service and new units within that? And if you can give us any more color on the building blocks of fleet growth, pricing, transactional upgrades within that, that would be very appreciated. And just as a quick follow-up on that market outlook you've given, that includes the steam combined cycle. If I remember correctly, in the last outlook you gave, that was around 10 gigawatts or so, it would be quite helpful to understand comparing like-for-like, how much is the combined cycle steam within that?

Okay. Maybe I'll answer quickly. I think the first topic with regards to the building blocks of the service. We typically have a time lag between getting the new units contract and getting the service contract booked. We could agree on it, we index it, but it does not get booked always -- most of the time actually on the same time of the new units. It takes a bit of time until you get financial closure and some customers are also not in a hurry to sign a service contract and they still have like 3 years of construction period of the power plant. So the majority of the 78 gigawatts of the backlog I showed you, will be transacted and turn into revenue in the planning period fiscal year '26 to '28. 80% plus of this service volume and quality of earning, you don't see it yet. You will see it beyond '28. Most of it is, as I said, very high availability and reliability, critical assets, and they go with LTPs. So we expect that you would see 90% plus of this on LTPs. It also comes with index. So there is an escalation formula. And the prices, as we are discussing right now are healthy. So I hope this gives you some color on what to expect after that. With regards to the market, I think you referred to the first slide. Yes, it includes the combined cycle part. I'm not so sure [indiscernible] is it 10 giga? 10 to 15.

I think if you just pass it on to Sean right next to you.

Sean McLoughlin at HSBC. A question for Tim. The -- you're positioning this 10% gap on the supply side by 2030. Just in terms of maybe Asian competition, other competitors also expanding in this space. What is the risk effectively that gap does close?

Could be. But remember, I mean, if you look at the large power transformers, you don't build this overnight, right? I mean we know the existing facilities also that our competitors have. We know the expansion plans. There's always a limit in an existing facility. The test bed can only take so many transformers a year to get push it through in terms of intelligence. If you look at the ovens, there's only so many ovens you can push to the parts for drying. Yes, there could always be people expanding, but also what we have seen that curve on the market every year, we actually have upgraded that upwards. So we're kind of always behind the curve in terms of looking at additional capacity. And it's a stage process. So not everything we're going to pull the trigger now. So we can also dial back if we see that gap is kind of closing, and we feel there's too much overcapacity that's coming. So it's very -- it's dynamic, but we're also looking at it on a very regular basis, multiple times a year to make sure we really understand what's needed going forward.

And a follow-up, if I may, just on productivity. I mean big gains in '25, targeting, again, '26. I was intrigued on the automation side. I mean, where are we in that implementation of automation? And is there any way you can quantify that productivity?

No -- I mean we have a target. I mean, it's easy to target productivity in terms of -- on the procurement side and so on. But you also have to realize, we have 43 factories. I think all of them are in some sort of expansion. So if you're expanding the factory, then also looking in terms of productivity on the manufacturing side, when you fully load it, you see it -- if you go to our transformer factory in Nuremberg, there's stuff everywhere, right? I mean it's even the material flow in there is not as it should be because we're just trying to get so much stuff through and we need every corner to store material. I think that's going to come a bit later once we start really seeing that expansion and having that flow. We see, of course, also the productivity is on the white color side. And then if I talk AI, how we do engineering, how do we do repeat designs, how do we utilize in terms of a contract approach? That's where it's a bit easier because it's more standardized. I think on the factories, we're going to see it a bit with a delay just because of the expansion and trying to clamp in productivity, at the same time, creating capacity. It's a bit of conflicting targets at the same time. So also our message to the factory heads is make sure that you get the load out because that's what we have committed. And then while you do that, you look at what are the measures you implement to drive the productivity.

All right. Next question goes to Alex.

Alex Jones, Bank of America. Just on gas capacity additions, could I get a more color on the cadence? You've already announced large gas goes to 50 units, medium goes to 80 by the end of '27, I think. But the slides would suggest you're not going beyond that. Is that sort of gradual debottlenecking after '27? Or there are other major step changes within capacity that you're hoping to make going forward?

Yes. There are step changes that we already are doing. But as I said, within the existing footprint, and one of them is that you will see it in a while, is bringing the capacity that is already existing in the footprint of Charlotte to be able to do units. Maybe we do 6, 7, 8 units from Charlotte, and this will add to our capacity. Second is our arrows. But really, the biggest driver is our MGT this is really where we are going north of 100. So the 50 becomes 80 becomes 100, and this is where we have the majority of the capacity.

Next one goes to Will, please.

Two questions, Tim and Karim. Tim, just come back to the comments about growth. You highlighted the 3 business areas that are growing very fast that contribute to a lot of your growth. And then I think you suggested that you want to double service as a proportion of the total revenue for your business.

Orders.

Of your orders. So -- but effectively, you're almost doubling over 5 years, your total business. But if you double the proportion of service, you're 4x. So what do you see in the market that's going to provide you such significant growth in the service-related business? And should we think that's accretive to the overall mix as we go forward?

I think there's a couple of things in there. One is aging infrastructure. And you always have the option, and that's why we are on the capacity expansion, it's not just new unit. We're also investing in 2 refurbishment centers, one here in Charlotte, the other one over in Europe. So instead of buying a new transformer, you can also have a refurbish that's about 2/3 of the cost of a new transformer. I think there's a trade-off that a lot of customers will do looking at how much remaining lifetime of the substation of the assets that's going to go. We see more and more kind of LTSA type contracts coming on the solution side. On the solution side, HVDC. So I mean, traditionally, it's not just a call of transactional service, but customers actually sign up for long-term service agreements, both parts and technical support. So that's a driver that's coming also out of the more complex solution business that's coming. Plus also, we're seeing much more of a refurbishment business on the substations that will go into service where basically you rip out old equipment, you put in new equipment that's being done by the service group. And I think the last one, we talked about these labor shortages. We see more and more customers having less own service people and actually outsourcing to us and say, can you take over the service of our assets or partially. So those are kind of the 4 drivers I see on the service side.

And the second one to Karim. If I recall correctly, you said a couple of times that you hope to install 180 gigawatts over 5 years, so about 36 gigawatts a year average simple math. But you put up a chart to talk about capacity being 22 gigawatts going to over 30 gigawatts in the second half of the period. So how do I square your capacity being below the total install that you're targeting?

It's the time difference between when you get an order and when you need to deliver it, right? So within this 5 years, we expect to get orders of 180 gigawatts that is not necessarily all going to be delivered in fiscal year 2030, right? So if you get an order in fiscal year '29 or 2030, then you are looking at a delivery in '31 or maybe '32.

So next question goes next Max, please.

Maybe just for Karim. Could you just give us a feel for -- to announce these capacity additions, you must have a good idea of kind of where industry capacity sits. So if we're saying kind of the single cycle, if we sit the single cycle and we say the market is kind of 85, 90 gigawatts going forward, you're going to -- if you knock 10%, 15% of your combined cycle number, it's '26, '27 GT are probably going to end up doing similar to what you do. So where do you think we are when all said and done with what most likely happens in the next year versus that 85 gigawatt number?

Yes. I think it's not very easy for us to really do that from the market demand because you saw on the panel discussion, the discussions always give me more, right? So I really always have the discussions of I want to get all what you can offer. And you really need to balance this of. If the market is very much relying on us to deliver what it needs to unlock the productivity and so on. We can't sit back all the time and say, hey, I'm not going to do the capacity expansion because I'm very scared of what's going to happen and vice versa, right? You cannot just go and run. We believe from our own analysis that it's a market would be in the range of the 100 giga as I told you. And the total capacity that we see today is around 85. However, from our side, we are able very quickly to ramp down again. And as I said, until fiscal year '28 is all sold out, '29 is in 6 weeks, we got 8. So '29 is filling very fast. And so these are capacities that are contracted or will be contracted very soon. And we will adjust if we need to adjust downwards.

And maybe just a very quick follow-up. You showed that chart where you were quite optimistic about the service business because more of what was going into the installed base was baseload. Maybe just give us a feel of the economics of if you have a turbine in your fleet that is baseload, what does that mean versus a peak in terms of revenue per gigawatt and maybe profitability on a baseload engine?

Yes, the profitability as a percentage is the same. I think there is 2 important drivers I want to leave with you. And it's, again, not the application of data center only. Think about the nuclear steam turbines, whether it's conventional or SMRs or offshore installations, FPSOs, et cetera. The first and the most important thing is availability and reliability. And this means an LTP contract that has all the bells and whistles in it, including strategic spare parts inventory, call-off team that can be there within 24 hours. All this is features that adds volume. We -- on average, as I said, we expect around EUR 400 million per gigawatt in this period of 20 years on average. But of course, if I look at base load, it's the volume that goes higher. And it's also the customer behavior that they are not really shopping around for I want to get the service from a third party that might offer me 10% or 15% cheaper, but it's more of can you guarantee for me the highest levels of availability and reliability. And as I think Dominion and William said, "When I need you, I want you to be there, and I want you to deliver what you promise." And for this, of course, we get paid.

Thank you so much. So with that, we would conclude this Q&A. And as the next person, I would like to welcome Vinod on stage. So please come here. The stage is yours.

Good afternoon. It's a pleasure to be here with all of you, and my name is Vinod Philip. I've been with the Siemens Energy business for 28 years now. And over the course of those 28 years, I've worked in the gas turbine business, the generator business, I've been Head of Strategy for Siemens Energy, been the Chief Technology Officer for the company as well as for the gas turbine business. I've worked in the regions, and now I've also run service in the past, and here I am running the wind business. It's a real pleasure to be here. And what I want to do in the course of the next few minutes is to talk to you about where we stand with regards to our turnaround and the progress we have made along the way. But let me start by saying that for us, the people are the foundation of everything we do. And this is really important because over the last 24 months, the teams across Siemens Gamesa as well as at Siemens Energy have been working tirelessly day in and day out to make the turnaround happen. n And I do want to take this opportunity to really thank them for their hard work. And also related to people is also something that Christian highlighted in his talk, which is safety. And I'm really happy to say that today, we have a safety record that is below industry benchmark and the lowest we have ever had. And this has been an over 35% reduction in our total recordables year-over-year. And for me, this is important because safety is a -- for me, a leading indicator of operational performance. And once you see a strong safety culture, a lot of things follow in terms of quality, in terms of operational performance and ultimately, profitability. So with this, I would like to walk you through a few proof points that highlight our progress towards breakeven and beyond. So to start with, we have to recognize that there are some key strengths we have in Siemens Gamesa that we have to leverage in order to make our turnaround happen. And these are around project execution, where you saw in the video, we have installed over 5,000 offshore turbines at a rate of almost 1 turbine per day. Our first offshore wind farm was built in 1991, and there is a tremendous track record here that plays a big role in our market position in offshore. Our service fleet is something that we are absolutely able and should leverage even more. With the installed base of 150 gigawatts between onshore and offshore, we are clearly #2 in the market. And this is something that we can build on. And we also have some key differentiating technologies, be it the IntegralBlade or the direct drive or the recyclable blade that really make our products unique and also differentiated for our customers. We are the only OEM, for example, that actually supplies commercially recyclable blades that at the end of life can be recovered completely with the glass fiber or the carbon beams or the balsa wood being reused for other applications. It's these trends that we will use as a way to get to breakeven in fiscal '26 and on the road to profitability beyond that. And so in the course of my presentation, you will see me emphasizing 3 things: operational excellence within a portfolio and footprint that has been streamlined quite a bit, turning onshore into a focused service-centric business, and in offshore, leveraging our strong position and market share to drive profitability. So as Maria also presented, our commitments are clear. In the forecast period, our goal is to be in the mid-single digit for revenue and in 3% to 5% for profit margin. But to make it super clear, these do not reflect our long-term ambition. Our long-term ambition is to be at higher profitability levels than what you see in '28. Now let's take a pause and just think about where we have come from. In fiscal '23, my predecessor, Jochen Eickholt, had introduced in the Capital Market Day the 5 priorities that were going to be key for turning around the business. And I'm really pleased to say that today, because of the tireless work of the teams within Siemens Gamesa, but also I have to take a moment to give a shout out to my colleagues in the other business areas, key experts, key leaders from gas services, grid technologies, transformation of industry and also the corporate functions stepped in to work side-by-side with the Siemens Gamesa teams to make this turnaround progress happen. So to highlight a few proof points, let's start with the onshore product quality topic. And here, I want to make just a reference because in the course of my presentation, you will not see me using the word 4x and 5x because we are changing the way we name these platforms. The 4x is now the SG 5.0, which is our 5-megawatt platform and the 5x is our SG 7.0, which is the 7-megawatt platform, up to 7 megawatts. And the good thing I can say is that our quality task force that was established in 2023 to start getting the quality issues in onshore sorted out has successfully finished its mission. We have stabilized this topic. And now the quality task force has closed and the continued implementation of the correctives and the measures have been handed over to the line organization to continue the driving them forward over the course of the next years. The second thing is to talk about also our back to market. And as you all might remember, in Q3 of '25, we announced the first sale of the SG 5.0 in Spain. And I'm happy to say that, as of today, in the course of the last few days, we were able to get 2 deals in Germany with the SG 7.0. And we will also have a few more in the pipeline that we will be able to share more details in the months to come. So the key message here is that from an onshore product quality and the onshore business, we have stabilized things, the back to market is going according to plan and the implementation of the measures right now are taking place also on track. The second thing I want to highlight here is the topic of ramp-up in the offshore business. And I would look at this from 2 sides. One is installations. So as I showed you in the overview, we have a very high installation rate in offshore. In fiscal '25, we installed about 300 offshore turbines. And in fiscal '26 and '27, we aim to install about 500 offshore turbines. In the factories also, the teams led by [ Karim Amin ] have done a great job in ramping up productivity and output. As an example, in Cuxhaven, in fiscal '23, we produced about 100 nacelles. And in fiscal '25, that number is now 300. And in fiscal '26, we aim to go beyond that. So the offshore ramp-up, both from a factory perspective as well as from an installation perspective is on track. And last but not least, it's about making sure that we also have a strong performance on service, and over here with the interventions we are now doing, we have been able to, for example, reduce the mean time between -- or increase the mean time between unplanned correctives year-over-year for the SG 7.0 by 40%. So these are all good indications that we delivered what we promised. Fiscal '25 was stabilizing the business as we look at fiscal '26 and beyond. Now talking about fiscal '26, we are on track to break even in fiscal '26. And what you see here are the 4 key levers that we are using to drive this path upwards. One is around onshore -- sorry, offshore profitability, where we really focus on execution of the projects and commercial discipline. This is going to be key to this profit uplift. In terms of operational excellence, it's all about making sure that our factory productivity, as I mentioned, which is on the right path continues, and we also reduced nonconformances. We have reduced, for example, year-over-year 60% -- by 60% nonconformances in the new unit business. Similarly, when we talk about the continued turnaround in onshore, it's all about cost optimization, both in terms of structural costs as well as investments in R&D and CapEx by having a much more streamlined portfolio, which I will talk about in my next slide in more detail. And last but not least, service. As I said, with a fleet of 150 gigawatts, of which about 65 are under service programs and the rest in open market, there is a lot more we can do. And in this case, field productivity and aftermarket are 2 key areas that we are looking at. When we talk about field productivity as an example, year-over-year between fiscal '24 and fiscal '25, we were able to reduce in North America, the time for a main bearing exchange by almost 50% by using lean processes for planning out the outage, innovations in cranes and improving the ways the field service teams work together. And these are the sorts of things we will continue to do step by step every day to make sure that this profit bridge you see here will be realized. I want to spend the next few slides doing 2 deep dives, one on the onshore business and the other from the offshore business, so we can also zoom out a bit and see what's the overall environment that we are in. Now with regards to onshore, it is still, from an electrification perspective, one of the cornerstones, and Christian briefly touched about this in his introduction because onshore is still, from an LCOE point of view, the second most competitive technology after a PV. And it also allows for fast build-outs, which is why you see, in the global markets, excluding China, the onshore market is expected to grow from about 40 to 45 gigawatts today to 65. But what I want to highlight here is to zoom in a bit because we, as Siemens Gamesa and Onshore, are not going to chase after every one of these countries and markets. We will take a very focused approach, and we have defined 12 countries, which we define as our focus countries where we see a strong positioning for Siemens Gamesa. And this positioning comes either because we have a very strong regulatory environment there or we have a good product fit, and I'll come to that in a minute, or we have a very strong existing service fleet and track record. So if you look at these 12 countries, that makes up about 50% of the global market outside of China, and that's what we're really going to focus on. And what you also might see on the slide that focus country, or that set of focus countries has an installed fleet of over 67 gigawatts of Siemens Gamesa turbines. And this is what we're going to zoom in on to really drive our onshore new unit business in a much more focused manner to make sure that we are maximizing our value. So that means that we have to change how we have managed our portfolio and our footprint, and that's what we have done. So over the course of the last 2 years, we have reduced the number of platforms in onshore that were in active sales from 11 to 4. And these are the 4 you see on the slide. The SG 5 and 7 the SG 4.3 and the SG 3.2, and I'll talk a bit about all of them now. So the SG 7 and 5, these are our larger onshore turbines that are ideal for complex wind conditions. They have integrated noise mitigations, extensive tower catalogs to allow for different tip heights, the ability to deal with high sheer wind conditions and so forth. And this makes them a good fit for the European market and other selected markets. Similarly, we have a direct drive-based onshore machine called the SG 4.3, which is our typhoon class resistant turbine. And this is very strongly fitting the market conditions in Japan. And that's also where we will drive this highly robust product for the Japanese markets, and we also see this product picking up, for example, in New Zealand. And then last but not least, repowering. When you have a fleet of about 150 gigawatts and you look at some of the older units, many of them are coming up to 20, 15 years of life, and now it is a good opportunity for repowering. And we see this as a very strong market in the U.S. where our SG 3.2 is an ideal candidate for repowering. Now just to also highlight that, the SG 3.2 is at a 3.2-megawatt turbine today that started as a 2.7. So we upgraded that from a 2.7 to 2.9 and now to a 3.2. And this allows us to do the repowering that depends on the scope of the customer, but you just keep the tower, change the rotor or you do the full rebuild depending on what the customer wants. And to give you a sense of how this market is evolving, in 2023 and 2024, we were on average about 250 megawatts of repowering. That went up to almost 500 megawatts in '25. And we see in the course of '26, that will be closer to 1 gigawatt of repowering. And we see the same kind of trend emerging in Spain potentially and also in some parts of U.K. where we have the older fleet. So repowering is something where we will use our proven products and address those wind farms that have been installed many years ago, and many of them are actually in very good wind conditions because that's where they started and find a way to make sure that we maximize the value of that portfolio. In order to do that, we also then reshaped the footprint. And in onshore, we have now reduced the number of manufacturing sites for blades and nacelles from 10 to 4. And this is something that also allows us to really make sure that we are driving up the effects in terms of utilization, quality and cost benefits. So looking at the service side, again, on onshore, I want to have a bit of a deep dive here because I do believe this is where we can do a lot more at Siemens Gamesa. You see the numbers in terms of order backlogs, average contract durations and so forth. But what I really want to highlight over here is in addition to being a recurring value stream that we can see from the 65 gigawatts there, which are under our service programs, we also have an opportunity to go after the non-service fleet with the aftermarket business. So what we are going to do when we talk about becoming a service-centric onshore business is to find a better balance between what we do in terms of supporting the fleet under service programs where it is all about making sure that we improve availability of the fleet. And over there, to give you a proof point, between fiscal '24 and fiscal '25, we were able to improve average availability of the SG 5.0 and SG 7.0 fleet by 3% points, which is remarkable. Similarly, on the aftermarket side, we'll be looking to see how can we bring our spare parts, high-value spare parts to customers on time so that we can get a lot of this aftermarket business. And over there, the availability and delivery of spare parts is key. And in line with this strategy of aftermarket, year-over-year, we were able to improve our spare parts on-time delivery by 50% points. And this is something we will continue to drive because this will then allow us to really tackle that aftermarket business, which is relatively healthy margins. And we have seen year-over-year order entry for the aftermarket business grow by 30% and revenues by 50% -- 15%. And we will continue to make this a focus so that we really drive this onshore into a focused service-centric business going forward. Now switching tack to offshore. Offshore from a market perspective is still very promising to us because as a technology, offshore offers a unique combination that you see mentioned on the slide. It's a high factor in terms of energy independence of many countries. It allows gigawatt scale deployment of these offshore farms. And of course, depending on the conditions, for example, in the North Sea, you have very high capacity factors, almost 50% compared to PV at 10%. And that's what you see. So all of us know about the U.K. and the EU as strongholds for offshore with the numbers there in terms of installations and also the commitments made. A few days ago, I was at the North Sea Energy Cooperation Ministerial, where the countries around the North Sea once again reinforced that they're going to follow a much stronger approach on ramping up offshore by also, for example, using the 2-sided CfD model in Denmark and also in the Netherlands to learn from the U.K. and keep driving this going forward. The other thing I want to highlight here is that we do have opportunities in the Asian markets, namely around Japan, Korea and Taiwan, where we have a very good starting position. And in these countries combined, they have committed to build-outs of 100 gigawatts of offshore between now and 2040. And this is something else we will also be looking at. Now the reason why we have a very strong position in offshore is because of 2 things. One is a very systematic decade of product improvements built on proven design features, be it the direct drive machine -- direct drive technology or the integral blade that allows the turbine to be fundamentally much lower maintenance and higher performance. That then leads us to our core product today, which is the SG 15, our 15-megawatt offshore turbine. In addition to that, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, our execution track record is unmatched when it comes to offshore. And that's why you see in terms of our market position in installed capacity, we are almost 70% market share. And this is based on 35 years of experience and deep customer relationships that we can continue to build on. And what we also want to do to make sure that we are really maximizing the value of this position is we have also streamlined our portfolio. What you see on the left side of the chart is how we had, in the production mix, the various platforms. So what you see in fiscal '23 is we had in production 3 different platforms, the SG 6/7, the SG 8 and the SG 11. And the reason why this is relevant is because in manufacturing, when you keep switching product, it creates a lot of complexity for the shop. So what you see here is step by step, we have gone away from having this multi-platform approach. We have this workhorse as the SG 15 that is a very well-received product in the market, and we are going to focus on this as our key and only active sales platform for the rest of this decade. And by doing this, we are able to drive up productivity in manufacturing, able to reduce nonconformance costs coming from switch outs. We are able to get the learned out cost effects and so forth. And this is going to be key to our offshore profitability improvement. And also, the market has received it very well. What you see here is in terms of secured pipeline. The SG 14/15 has over 22 gigawatts of orders secured compared to the rest 3 platforms, which is about the rest 3 platforms, which is about 20, and we have up to 40 gigawatts in discussions where we will continue to see this coming into our order books in the years to come. So to bring it all together, we are on a journey of transformation. We are step-by-step making progress. Fiscal '25 was the year of stabilization. Fiscal '26 is where we want to aim to break even in and then step-by-step move towards the '28 targets you see here in terms of revenue growth and margins. And we will do this by really focusing day in and day out on 3 things: operational excellence with lean structures and a streamlined footprint/portfolio, driving offshore through industrialization and making sure that onshore is transforming more and more into a service-centric business. And this is only possible because of the fantastic team we have at Siemens Gamesa. So with this, thank you very much. I hope you all got a sense of our journey of transformation and looking forward to the Q&A. And now I invite my colleague, Anne-Laure, to join me on stage to give her presentation. Thank you.

So hello, everybody. I'm Anne-Laure. I joined Siemens Energy a bit more than 3 years ago when we created Transformation of Industry. And before that, I was working for ENGIE, one of the world's largest independent power producer, where I was the CEO of their distributed energy generation and energy infrastructure internationally. So I'm very pleased to be presenting today Transformation of Industry and a little bit the journey of where we've come from. So as you saw in the video, we have a very broad portfolio of technologies that are supporting energy-intensive industries. It includes compressors, steam turbines, generators, electrolyzers, but also electrification, automation and digital solutions. And all these businesses are #1 or #2 in their market. And you will see that since the creation of TI, we've come a very long way. All these businesses have been laser-focused on building resilience, growing service and on execution excellence. So I'll share with you our journey until today, our ambitions and how we plan to keep this momentum to further improve our performance year-over-year. Let me first explain where we come from. We've delivered a huge turnaround. We've improved profitability by over 1,300 basis points since 2021, and our profit margin has now reached over 11%. This transformation was done in 2 stages. First, we worked on footprint optimization, portfolio streamlining and operational excellence. This delivered EUR 600 million of savings, and it strengthened our resilience by increasing our focus and by rightsizing our operations. Since then, we've improved further. We've been pushing service revenue. We've been increasing productivity above the industry standard. And doing that, we've also been keeping CapEx extremely light. So we've come a long way, and our teams have proven that they can deliver with extreme focus and with extreme execution discipline. Now let's look ahead. We're committed to keep this momentum and to further deliver on performance. We're targeting a revenue growth of 5% to 7% in '26 and mid- to high single-digit growth through 2028. And regarding our profit margin, we are set to reach 11% to 13% next year and 12% to 14% by 2028. And this is just the beginning. We will also continue to improve even further going forward. How are we going to do that? So we have 3 levers that we are working on to be able to achieve that. The first one is diversifying markets, which increase our resilience going forward, and I will explain you how. Second is service growth, which is a huge profit engine for us. And third, execution excellence to be able to further increase our productivity. First lever, our diversified market. This is really giving us the resilience we need going forward. The market environment is changing rapidly, and they're driven by a few major trends that you all know, which are, first, energy cost and affordability. These are key drivers for industrials, and this is why we see strong investments in energy efficiency. Second is a strong focus on energy security and diversification of supply. This is due to the current geopolitical situation, and this is why we see that LNG will continue to grow in the coming years. And third, the proportion of electricity in the industrial energy mix is expected to rise because more and more industries are switching their processes from fuels to electricity. And finally, we see the surge in power demand, particularly driven by AI, as my colleagues were talking about, and this is putting even more pressure on industries for cost-effective energy solutions. So let's now see how this will impact our market growth. So if you look at the middle chart in the middle, you see that some of our core markets, so maritime, process industries, industrial power generation, they will grow double digit. When you look at oil and gas and chemicals, however, they will continue to grow, but at a slower pace. Today, you see that they represent 2/3 of our overall market and their share will actually gradually reduce over time. And you also see that hydrogen will provide an upside towards the end of the decade. Our resilience is based on this diversification of our markets and the fact that we are exposed to a broad range of markets, which helps us in navigating the different market cycles. But our resilience also comes from the diverse applications that we have and the global reach and balanced regional exposure that we have in over 70 countries. I also want to take a bit of time to explain to you how our portfolio is well positioned for further growth in key growing markets. So first, maritime. We see that this sector is shifting to lower emission fuels and to electrification, and we are building on the fleet that we already have today of 900 ships to continue to provide solutions from electrical propulsion to battery storage, both for commercial and naval vessels. Second, data centers. There, we provide different solutions like load stabilization, for example, so that data centers can operate 24/7. And we aim to quadruple our orders in the next 3 years, riding the AI demand boom. Third, digital services. So there, our solutions include things like asset performance, remote operations, energy management. And here, we plan to more than triple our orders in the next 3 years. And finally, hydrogen. We have already 1 gigawatt of electrolyzer projects that are either under execution or already in operation. Last year, we were #1 in the market, Chinese included, and many of these projects have 10-year service contracts attached. So it is long term. We all know that the long-term market growth for green hydrogen will depend on its cost competitiveness. And this is why we're also working on reducing the total installed cost of hydrogen production by 40% by 2030. Second driver, service growth. So this driver is honestly our biggest bottom line driver. And I would like you to consider 2 examples to see how important it is for our customers. As you see on the screen, up to 40% of the total operating expenses in metals production are related to energy use. We also see that in oil and gas, unplanned downtimes that you have in a plant cost on average, $400,000 per hour. So this shows how efficiency is key for competitiveness, but also why asset life cycle support is critical for our industrial customers. At Transformation of Industry, we have 85,000 assets in the field and many are operating for more than 50 years. Over that life cycle, service revenue is at least twice the asset revenue. That's why capturing the service potential of our fleet is a very, very powerful growth engine. And since 2023, we've delivered double-digit service growth every year. We've significantly increased our service margin. We've grown our service backlog, and we kept the service share above 50% in our mature businesses. This growth in service is a key win-win for our customers, but also for our profitability, one of the key drivers. So now how will we further harness the full value of this enormous installed base that we have? So we start from a very strong position. We have the largest installed fleet and service organization in the industry. We have decades of customer relationships, and this closeness that we have with our customers gives us speed and scale. Also, we constantly innovate on our products and on our service offerings. And for example, we work on making service interventions more cost effective by leveraging AI to minimize downtime for our customers by 30%. So how do we accelerate this growth engine? First, we plan to further increase our service reach to penetrate untapped fleet. This is about maximizing the asset performance, maximizing or extending the asset life, and this is a huge opportunity for us that we haven't tapped yet enough. Second, we want to win more on our fleet through targeted modernization and upgrades. You need to know that modernization have less than 2 years of payback time and that our upgrades generate usually efficiency increases of 5%. So this is a very strong service growth lever that we also need to push. And third, we aim to increase our electrification and digital services by over 60% to make our service more predictable and to further reduce the downtime for our customers. So these are the very strong market drivers that we see and the very strong actions that we will do on service to further grow using our very powerful and sustainable installed base. Third lever, execution excellence. This has been our obsession these past years, and we will continue to drive resilience and productivity by being laser-focused on it. So let's start by resilience. We continue to strengthen our supply chain. We're focusing on more diverse and more local supply, and this makes us far less vulnerable to any external shocks. But resilience is also about the many customers, projects, transactions that we serve every year. And it's also about delivering on time and on quality with strong execution discipline. And this is reflected in the very high customer satisfaction increase that we've seen in the past years. So how will we continue to deliver productivity? First, we remain disciplined in how we grow, keeping CapEx light. This allows us to be selective where we actually prioritize profit over volume and also the fact that we increase our output within our existing footprint delivers both productivity and resilience. We are also extremely disciplined in how we manage fixed costs and overhead. And by applying digitalization throughout our value chain, we're also streamlining our operations, becoming more effective and gaining speed. This execution excellence will further drive our performance and our financial results. So let me recap what you can expect from us. First, our balanced exposure to different markets, different industries, applications and regions will continue to provide resilience to our business. Second, service is our big key profit engine, and we will remain laser-focused on its growth. And third, our track record proves that we are committed to execution excellence, and we will remain extremely disciplined in building resiliency and productivity. This will translate directly into financial performance, and we're looking ahead to 2028, we plan to deliver mid- to high single-digit revenue growth and an increased profit margin of 12% to 14%. Thank you. Questions.

Thank you so much, Anne-Laure and Vinod, if you please come back on stage. So now we're going to finish up with our last Q&A before Christian is going to wrap up our Capital Market Day, but I guess there will be another lot of questions. So starting here with Phil, in the first row. Microphone is coming.

It's a question for Vinod to start with. Obviously, the breakeven is now in sight, confidence levels there seem to be quite high. With the transformation mission now complete, as you've described it, the growth rates that you've offered for onshore and offshore and with the increased focus on service, there I ask it, but it kind of feels like mid-single-digit growth and 3% to 5% margins is not necessarily the end of the road. How should we think about the trajectory from that point into 2030, please?

Sure. Thank you. Thanks for the question. I think, first of all, let me just reemphasize the transformation is not complete. It's underway. So stabilization is what we aimed for in '25. And now step by step, we have to get through to the midterm target of 3% to 5%. I must say, honestly, I think looking at 2030 for me right now is too far out. It's really important that the team stay focused on delivering in '26 as we have committed and then get to the 3% to 5%. And over the course of the time, I'm sure as we get more traction under the belt, I think we can discuss what happens towards the end of the decade. But the important thing to highlight was to line up to what Christian said as part of the elevate program, at the end of this decade or by the end of this decade, I think every part of Siemens Energy needs to be in a band that makes sense for the company. And that's what we're aiming for. But let's get to breakeven and then also let's get to 3% to 5%, and then we can see what comes after.

Ben, please.

I've got a slightly nasty one for Vinod. I was going to ask it to Maria, but I didn't have a chance. It's about the cash within Siemens Gamesa. We are still, to be frank, hemorrhaging cash. It's nearly EUR 2 billion of cash out the door in the last year. And I guess it's all very well us talking about breakeven margin. When are we talking about breakeven cash? And on the cash side, I mean, we've still got these quality cash-out things to deal with this year. So is our line of sight to this becoming a cash positive business? Is this a '27 thing? Is it a '28 thing? When can we get to run rate cash generation back in this business?

It's a very fair question, Ben. And I think maybe let me just elaborate a bit on the cash drain, right? So I think the QTF cash outs are one lever. So that's fiscal '25 and fiscal '26 are the big chunk of it, yes. Then I think we still have investments that we have to do in the offshore. So CapEx is another one that we have to keep doing. The third is many of the improvement measures that we have kicked off as they start to pay out with the POC accounting also with project-based completion, they will also come later. So there is a bit of a lag on that. And then I think Maria would be much better suited to answer this if you need her to, but also from an overall prefinancing and everything and deleveraging wind power, there is also some of that effects coming in. So the goal is to become cash positive and probably towards the end of the decade.

Next question goes to Vivek, please.

Vivek Midha from Citi. A question on the onshore growth. So you've highlighted that you've started to get some of that order intake. But within those 12 focus countries, what do you see as a realistic market share to recover to within those countries?

Yes. I think I want to be careful because I think very often chasing after market share makes us lose project selectivity. So for me, the first focus, and this is a clear message I've given to all the teams between '26 and '27, make sure that we get the right projects. by working with the right customers. So I would be -- it will be too premature for me to talk about market share in the midterm. But my expectation is that if you want to be a relevant player in this, you have to be, if not #1, at least #2 or #3. And based on that, I think the market share will play out and its all. But I don't want to make market share the main driver. I really want to make project selectivity, profitability, driving up value first. And then I think once we get the ball rolling and we have a well-proven set of early launch projects out there, we can talk about market share. But I'm not going to comment on market share too early right now.

Maybe handing it over to Max, please.

Max from Morgan Stanley. I just -- I wanted to talk through a few of the moving pieces to get to breakeven. I think quite a few of them seem in your control. So collapsing the kind of offshore models into one, slimming down the cost base. I guess the one that's a little bit harder to understand is the improving or service going back to normal. Could you maybe just talk a little bit through what's actually happening there? How much is in your control versus how much is it kind of market forces? And how does that actually work in practice?

Right. I think on the service, there are maybe 3 different kinds of things we have got to do. So one is when you talk about bringing the SG 5.0 and the SG 7.0 fleet up to the availability levels by doing the proper implementation of all the correctives, that happens in service. So that, I think, is to make sure that the implementation of the correctives are done seamlessly. The second is for the mature platforms that are the pre-SG 5.0 and SG 7.0 platforms, over there, it's all about field efficiencies. We have, in most cases, good availabilities, but the higher up we can improve those, we can also squeeze out more value from the mature platforms. That's the second bucket. And the third bucket is aftermarket. This is where we really have to look for these high-value spares. And we have, as you see, a 50-some gigawatt market where we don't have service programs and to really penetrate the aftermarket business in there. So these 3 buckets, we focus on them. And then over the course of time, we start to see the overall service performance constant -- continuously improving.

So next question will be going to Gael, please.

Just in terms of the quality topics were obviously a big issue. Now the main issue for onshore will probably be more about covering the fixed cost. So what is the size you need to have in that business to be profitable again? So that's question number one. Question number two is about the -- maybe a follow-up on the earlier question on the service side. I remember this service business used to deliver 20% plus type of margins. I think you said earlier that you've delivered on the promise to -- what did you say exactly to return service to target profitability. So what is the target profitability for service?

Yes. I think maybe let's start with the first one. In terms of the overall size, I really don't want to put a number out there because I think the more important thing is we have already a lean structures program that we have kicked off. So we are really right now focusing on taking out structural costs in onshore. There's also building on the program that was announced 2 years ago. That's on track, making sure that we optimize CapEx and R&D along the way. And then at the end of the day, I think it will be a business where we are making sure that we don't have to chase after every project because we have overcapacity to fill. So it really is going to be a balancing between making sure that we have the right cost structures, the right capacity, but not overdoing either of those. So you end up chasing projects that you actually don't have a very strong position on. So we will actually try to manage this along the way for onshore. What is also important is that I think looking into the mid- to long term, offshore is going to be a big driver of the growth. It's not going to be looking at having onshore driving the growth as much. With regards to the profitability in service, to make very clear, we have measures in place that we are starting to put to get the service back on track. So as of fiscal '25, service is not in the target profitability levels we need to because of all the quality issues and everything. So the expectation is that in the midterm, if you have a healthy running service organization, similar to what we see in the market with what Nordex has and Vestas has, we should be looking at the mid-teens in that range.

And to get to breakeven '26 for the entire division, so you need to what...

No. So again, for breaking even for the whole wind business, we have these 4 buckets, all 4 play out. And the contribution of service into the breakeven is part, but the bigger contribution is going to come from the offshore uptake and also from the operational performance in the factories.

All right. So if we don't have any other questions now, well, thank you so much. We know and long. And then we would get to the end of the Capital Market Day today. So thank you all for participating for the last hours. And then I would ask Christian to come back on stage. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Just before I wrap up, conclude because I think Ben asked the question just to make sure that I heard it correctly because the tiny little things like cash are sometimes important. We will be strong cash positive in '28 in the wind business. That's the assumption, right? This is the current planning. I think I heard we're not saying it like this. I just want to make sure that it's correctly understood. Until then, it's really working up the way towards that, right? Good. I would like to conclude with a couple of thank you. And I hope you enjoyed really the presentations of the teams of presenting of what we're doing, how we energize society, how we're bringing the things together. It's a lot about how we do things, as I said in the morning. It's really about operational excellence. I'm very proud of what the teams have achieved. And I think it was giving you insightful background information on how we are continuing to develop the company. I would, first of all, like to thank you all here in the room and obviously also online following us for 4.5 hours. And thank you very much also for the active engagement with the question-and-answer session. I obviously would like to thank our customers who joined us also today and also the ones who provided statements to the Capital Markets Day. We're very proud of the trust we get from our customers. So thank you very much for that. I would like to thank fantastic team purple, the people who are working at Siemens Energy. And that's really great to see what they get together. And in particular, I would like to thank the team who put this Capital Market Day together and have also made sure that in preparation of it, all the presentations, all the organizations around it. The people who will show you afterwards the site and everything, thanks very much for this extra effort. It was not easy in this row of all the events which we have currently. So thank you very much for that. And I, last but not least, I would like to thank all our shareholders really for the trust in the company. It has been a very interesting journey over the last 5 years as a company. And I hope you have seen what we are planning ahead of us. And obviously, I think, as I said in the morning, it's a fantastic market to be in. We believe we have a lot of good things to offer to the market, and we will continue to work on it. We're looking forward for a continuous engagement with all of you. Thank you very much for the questions. Thank you very much for your attention today. It was great to have you here in the room. It was great to have you online. Thank you very much. Thanks of spending your time with Siemens Energy and the trust in the company. Thanks. Have a great day. Enjoy the tour for you. Thank you.

Thanks a lot also once again from my side, and I know there are still so many open questions. The IR team is, as usual, always available for you.