Sivers Semiconductors AB (publ) (SIVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to this webcast of the Q3 report 2022 for Sivers Semiconductors. My name is Anders Storm, and I'm the group CEO, and I'm going to take you through the report and update you on the status of the company. If we look at a summary, the net sales came in at about SEK 28 million, which is 6% growth. If we look at the sort of January to September, it's a growth of about 23% overall, where we had sort of high growth in Q1, a bit less in Q2 and a little bit in Q3. However, we have had sort of a very fruitful couple of weeks actually from September and forward where we have had a lot of orders. One order from our main Fortune 100 for $1 million, a SATCOM development order and an acceleration fee of almost $1 million. We also secured a loan during this period, and we also had a very good ECOF fare with -- together with Ayar Labs. We also got a grant together with Chalmers University. And now the latest after the report we also got the SEK 1.4 million purchase order from European SATCOM Company. So if we look at sort of summarizing this over the last 6 weeks, we have received purchase orders of about SEK 40 million. And that is, of course, a record in that short period. And if we look at the Q3 in general, it is a quite short quarter for us since July and August is normally sort of more or less closed out in Europe and the U.S. and September is the only month where we sort of can really do business. And from the 12th of September and forward we actually then received SEK 30 million -- SEK 40 million approximately purchase orders as we have sent out on press releases. Then we also get smaller purchase orders which we don't normally show. Anyway, going back to the quarter, 6%, as I said. If we look at the EBITDA, we are improving that quite a lot. However, if we look at adjusted EBITDA, it's down a bit and a lot of that is connected to increasing costs around the acquisition of MixComm and personnel costs and so forth. EBIT is up and improved a little bit, but not much. Main reason sort of for the lower Q3 sales is that Photonics is not coming in on target. Here we are 20% down since last year, while we're seeing a growth of over 100% in the wireless business. And this is due to some delays in the fab -- together with some revenue recognition, with customers that have to improve some things we send to them. We look at the overall [indiscernible] September, we are growing. We're now at SEK 82 million for the year-to-date, which is 23% up. We're also improving EBITDA and a little bit lower EBIT, but that is again connected to the acquisition of MixComm where we had the dual products, where we did a write-down sort of SEK 22 million as well as we have started to amortize depreciation of the acquisition which in total comes into SEK 51 million. So with that removed we are actually better on the EBIT level as well. If we look at the segment reporting, as I mentioned, net sales growing wireless about 104%. Photonics is down 20%. We are also increasing our sales in the U.S., which is sort of good. We are looking at the macroeconomics and focusing more on the West in this current situation. And that is the highest number we had so far, 82%. We're also 13% in Europe and 5% in Asia now. So down about 5% in Asia from previous quarters. NRE is approximately the same levels. We're still heavy on NRE which is expected at this phase, but we are getting into volume orders as you've seen. If we look at overall year-to-date now, wireless is now up from about 25% of sales to 40% and we expect wireless to grow quicker in the coming 5 quarters. And looking at the sales in Asia in general -- and we're getting a lot of questions about what happened with the U.S. new regulations and so forth from Biden, for China, for example and of course, that could impact us. But since we have so little sales in Asia right now, we don't see any impact -- more than possibly sort of order intake from possibly new customers that we cannot address. But in general, that is not an area where we see too much issues. If we look at the significant events then as I mentioned, we had the Fortune 100 which is getting better and better and never been more positive about seeing that customer coming to fruition. We're getting very positive feelings. The SATCOM is going really well now. Also securing a loan facility for growth capital and liquidity in the company has been very important for us, and as well as Ayar Labs who was on our Capital Markets Day and sharing our fantastic solution together that you could have seen on the ECOF in 2022 in Basel where we have seen a very positive things. So going into the Fortune 100 as you know, it is actually 4 years now since we started this project. They have invested SEK 130 million so far which is quite a large amount for us and a very important customer, of course. During this year, so far, we received SEK 34 million in orders and delivering on that and this is the best year so far with this customer. Volume production is getting closer. We have no firm commitments yet, but I think we'll see that coming in the future. And we're quite confident that we are in the right place when it comes to sort of both the image and the detector for this sensor project. And as I mentioned, SEK 130 million -- and we have a very good working relationship still with this group. We look at the SATCOM order, that was a purchase order of about SEK 10 million or $900,000. Engineering activities where we start performing work, work will be performed in -- mostly in Q4, and we see more orders for that coming in. And we also got an acceleration fee to accelerate deliveries of chipsets since the market is looking to get chipsets next year already. And then later on you saw the order here, I think it was this week where we now got an order of about SEK 15 million, SEK 16 million for volume in next year already. The loan facility, this is for continued growth capital to promote to continue growth. And as you see, we are getting more and more orders. The lenders cannot short stop. There were some discussions on that, but NASDAQ has reviewed and approved the loan facility. So it's a strong loan and we're happy that we have the lenders backing us and giving us a chance to move closer and closer to a cash flow positive situation for the company. And of course, it's very sort of challenging macroeconomic environment and to be able to get the loan this large in this environment is a strong message I think to the market in that sense. If we look at the Ayar Labs, if you listen to the Capital Markets Day, to the CEO of Ayar Labs you will hear a lot more about this. But it is very promising that we are sort of in pole position together with Ayar Labs to deliver now sort of the 2 terabit solutions for Optical I/O inside computers. And then they tell us that we are the only one who have been able to do this with the first company out and this is sort of a 8-channel array that we have been able to produce with high quality and it's now tested and -- in sort of prototyping together with Ayar Labs. So this is a very interesting market. And if you don't know Ayar Labs, that's one of the coolest startups in California, who recently received $130 million from Intel, HP and NVIDIA, and they are working with several, very large companies which becomes servers indirect customers in this partnership. And we're very proud to be part of this and we're looking to support them to go into sort of the first production during next year or already. So what happened after the quarter? Yes, we've got an interesting partnership with Chalmers. We have been working with Uppsala University and other universities before, but not really sort of done anything larger with Chalmers. I think is a good sign as well. We also got the SATCOM purchase orders. And also we were able to appoint Harish, who is the founder of MixComm, Co-Founder and former CEO, and he is now the Managing Director of Series Wireless. I'm very happy to see this. And Harish is also a very large shareholder, with more than 10 million shares in the company. And the Chalmers project is actually a 2-year project. We are applying sort of the latest technology and the stuff we have been doing and also coming in from the acquisition of MixComm where we can sort of work harder with global foundries and other foundries to do the next-generation solutions here. And this is SEK 2 million to Sivers and SEK 2 million to Chalmers to investigate and get this out to the market. The SATCOM order is from a European SATCOM company. It's about SEK 60 million. We also earlier -- before we actually acquired MixComm, there was an order of about SEK 6 million which is sort of partly already paid to MixComm from beginning. But there is another SEK 3 million actually that will be delivered in Q1 of these first chipsets coming out to -- for sort of 3 series production. Even if it's small volumes, yet in this it is quite large orders that we will probably see based on this and we expect more orders actually to come during and that will be delivered in 2023. So this is just a start that we've seen now. Regarding the MixComm earn out, I think people might be remembering that there was that part of the contract and there was a deadline from when this should be sort of finalized. There are sort of still discussions that how -- and if the commercial milestones were sort of met and it's connected to some technical things that is still going on during the quarter where we are looking at during this quarter if it's actually fulfilled it and how it will sort of pan out. So the assessments are still ongoing, but will be completed during this quarter. And then we understand if the full earn out will happen or not. But I would say that the work with this very important part is still ongoing. So if we look at the market update, I mean we are now focusing on very interesting mega trends. So high-speed broadband that are 5G and so forth, we have the Silicon Photonics, which is connected to Ayar Labs, our Fortune 100 customers. We're part of augmented reality solutions with Fortune 100 customers. We're working with LiDAR customers from the NASDAQ main market with for autonomous driving. We have SATCOM customers now and we also have sensor for health monitoring type of things. So all of these mega trends are within what we're doing. And all of this, we believe that -- independently of the macroeconomic situation that we see, a lot of these areas are now moving forward independently of sort of inflation or whatever that's happening. So we have a very positive view on the future of this. And we also see as I mentioned, sort of an increase in orders in the last 6 weeks. So what is it actually that we deliver them in this technology. So we are the connection between the digital world and the real world. We're actually taking the digital signals, make them into analog signals, radio waves or laser light and we can then send this between sort of a mobile phone or a base station or in a fiber or as a light source for a sensor or, for example, autonomous driving, more like a radar when that bounce off and bounces back. So we have the focus on sort of these type of semiconductors that are vital for all type of communication on sensing. So what kind of market is this? And we are still in a sort of NRE-based market. But the overall total addressable market for all of these kind of chipsets is above USD 10 billion. So it's a very large market that we're now getting into. And so far, looking at our sales at sort of hardware level, we are a very modest sales and that's where we now want to go in and start taking market share based on our customers. 5G has been a little bit slower than expected over this period. Mainly to connected to sort of U.S. basically going in and changing from millimeter way to subset for a while, to focus on coverage rather than getting sort of the higher speeds into the networks. But we're seeing positive signs from customers now that we are moving in the right direction. SATCOM is sort of market strong for NRE right now and also will start contributing for volumes in 2023. And also Photonics market will start taking off in 2023 from a sort of total of addressable market. And customers like the Fortune 100s and Ayar Labs and others are now coming to the next phase. If we look at what is the total addressable market, yes, that's sort of the overall market that everybody who's selling into this would be able to address, so if you sell these kind of chipsets -- indium-phosphide chipsets or lasers that we are. There is also other, I think you said service of an addressable market or a serviceable obtainable market which is sort of -- obtainable is the market share. We are not yet giving them sort of an estimate -- what kind of market share we can take, but that will come later when the company starts making forecasts. The Photonics part here is sort of the laser light source emitting light where we're sort of sending the light out. The Silicon Photonics is to connection between these Photonic lasers and the Silicon where you can make a big difference in the solution. And the Fortune 100 companies are the sort of the 100 largest U.S. companies with sort of large market caps, which is sort of a part of that and we have 3 of those right now. So if we look at the Silicon Photonics please, we are the sort of Photonics in the Silicon Photonics and a very, very important piece of the puzzle here. We have several very important patents where you and how you connect the lasers on to the silicon. And the reason for not being able to sort of use silicon directly as lasers is that the material properties of silicon is not good enough to do lasers as you want to. You need to do indium-phosphide lasers for example. And that's what we can do. And we have now 19 customers on the Indian phosphide platform and we are working hard to get those to the market. And just a week or 2 ago actually, we saw a new report coming out from Yole where they are talking about indium-phosphide Photonic device markets. And as you can see here it's going to be sort of a large uptake and the overall market will be over SEK 5 billion. And Microwave Journal went out and said that consumer is the holy grail for indium-phosphide. And as you've seen, we have sort of had consumer applications for our sort of sensors as well. So this is a first time sort of Yole talks about this and get an understanding on how big the indium-phosphide market actually is. And back to that. Here you can see then as I mentioned before, our Indium Phosphide lasers that now goes into Ayar Labs solutions. And I would say that the Optical I/O piece is still an early piece in the indium phosphide community and where that's going to take -- where that's going to go is still unclear. And I think Yole don't have the full understanding of this market yet either. If we listen into what Charlie from Ayar Labs, the CEO said, he says that sort of it's going to be a SEK 7 billion SAM just for the Optical I/O piece in the future which is quite interesting, of course, because they will then exchange the copper wires into optics. And we believe that, that's a quite important step to actually circumvent the challenges that are in data centers and other applications here. So -- and he also said that Sivers' technology is vital for our solution, and that's because we are the laser source in the solution that actually sends the light and creates the solution. So that's very good news I would say for us in that sense. The same thing was shared in the Capital Markets Day by ALL:SPACE, our customer in the SATCOM industry. And what they are doing, they have sort of a very interesting ground terminal that could be connected to everything from the 3 different levels I would say, of satellites today. You have the sort of GEO, LEO, and, MEO applications where you have the low earth orbit, the medium earth and the geostationary orbit which has been the old way of doing it. And with all these things you can now suddenly connect multiple things. And ALL:SPACE is the first company who actually connects multiple satellites within different types of stationary satellites. And there our technology also -- as mentioned by the CEO, John from ALL:SPACE, that our technology who receives and sends this is absolutely vital for these next-generation things. And looking at this market as well, it's going to have a quite sort of large uptake going forward, going into sort of the new type of flat panel SATCOM arrays. That is sort of where our technology will be steering at can I get [ this ] technology, and we have to sort of point it in the right direction. Now we can point it, you can put it on to military vehicles. You can do anything and you can connect to several different satellites at the same time. And this market is now sort of beginning and growing and the total sort of is about USD 5 billion over the coming 7 years. And the pre-series volume that we received so far for next year already is SEK 80 million, but we expect, as I said, more and this is just a pre-series. So when ALL:SPACE starts taking market shares here, we will see a very quick uptake I would say, in growth in this market. If we look at the overall market so far when it comes to 5G, as I mentioned it's been a bit slower uptake. And here you can see how small sort of the millimeter wave was in 2019. Now we're seeing sort of a larger market that will develop up to sort of a SEK 2.7 billion market in 2026. And that will sort of be growing. Unfortunately for the short term, that's been sort of things delayed in this millimeter wave market. But as many of the research reports says, including this from Yole, that uptake is coming but are a bit delayed. And talking about them what we have here, I mean, we have 43 design wins within wireless where a lot of them are in the 5G millimeter wave stuff. And we have customers now that we are getting orders from and we expect to see more and more of this. And this is sort of the updated view. We have about 11 of these design wins, the signings with 23 -- 11 customers with 23 ready hardware designed in, in different aspects. And we have, for example, lately that AirVine got SEK 10 million, and we've seen ALL:SPACE and others here getting in and moving in the right direction and getting things to the market. We've also seen actually Blu Wireless now getting the first stuff out on a 70-kilometer track-to-train application in the U.K. And I think that will now start rolling a bit more and we expect to see things there for example. If we then summarize this, we are moving from the NRE. The NRE will still be important for us, but we are now sort of moving into this SEK 10 billion TAM market over the coming years. At 2023 will be the year we see more and more. Even if the macroeconomic environment is challenging, we expect to see much higher growth from Q4 and forward, driven by NRE short term, but then also hardware sales. So if we summarize all of this, we can see that we have sort of a very small growth in Q4 -- a Q3, but still -- over the year we've still grown 23% in this macroeconomic situation. it's not too bad. And we are now getting to the phase which I talked about that the second half of 2022 will be when we start seeing orders. And as I said we have seen now SEK 40 million of orders just the last 6 weeks, and I think we'll see more and more coming in during this year as well. And the orders, the SEK 140 million is from the SATCOM, it is from Photonics. We're seeing also supporting orders from different type of applications. So in this sense we are now sort of supporting the megatrends that are going to be the coming 10 years, very important for building up the society in general, ranging from everything -- from broadband to LiDAR to Silicon Photonics to satellite communication. And I think we are in a very good spot with products in all areas. And we are expecting higher growth, as I said, onwards. And I'm very happy to see that we're sort of finally starting to see purchase order coming in and just the last 4 weeks or 6 weeks as I said. We've seen SEK 40 million which is a record for us, and we hope to see more of this coming in. So with that said, I'm now going into the questions.

Let me just open up the window here. I have a lot of questions already. I will start. Regarding ALL:SPACE, do you see a large sales today working forward that you calculated a year ago when you [indiscernible] most things about the Ukraine issue with Russia military and U.S.? Now with ALL:SPACE are you seeing more correlation with our other SATCOM customers, what are your thoughts with that? And even now -- you earlier said that LiDAR… So let me answer that first. Yes, we are seeing sort of orders coming to fruition as we have hoped for. We have very, very big hope for ALL:SPACES in the future. We're seeing the first type of orders coming in as you've seen and we are really hopeful that it will be a massive take up then when they get to the sort of next generation of chipsets. Also so other SATCOM customers are -- we are in discussions and we are very hopeful to -- and we're also already working actually on smaller projects which will hopefully come to bigger projects we can announce later on. You earlier said that the LiDAR is for in the future. Is this still the case? Yes, I mean, far and far -- I mean, volumes and so forth for LiDAR is probably a bit later than we want. But we're still working with several LiDAR companies. We haven't heard much on the Eastern European customer, please update us. Yes, so the Eastern European customers -- as I mentioned earlier, is that we have had sort of stopped -- had to stop sending things. I think I mentioned that already in the -- I think it was the Q2 report or Q1 report. So we have not been able to ship there due to the limitations. Ayar Labs, is volume still years away or can you say start making large orders next year already? I think we'll see orders. I don't think it will be the largest orders, but we'll see type of sort of pre-series and that kind of stuff during next year. And then I think as they are saying sort of this year is a commercialization of all the solution. I think that 2024 will be sort of a bigger year. But I think they will be part of the growth for next year for our Photonics business. What's the status with the Tier 1 ranking you see volume starts? We are in prototyping. And as I mentioned, they have been buying prototypes. They are evaluating this. I think volumes will probably be seeing sort of larger volumes, we'll see more prototype volumes I think in first half next year. Larger volumes probably end of '23, early '24. It was a very long question. I'm still on the same question here. Can we expect them to go forward for Photonic U.S. based out? Okay. I have to move to the next one I think now. Would you give view personnel costs going forward? This is SEK 7 million per quarter, the current run rate or else equal? In addition, will there be any more one-off time from management changes in Sivers, one-off impact? No. I mean, there is no sort of one-off impact on the management changes currently. The personnel cost will probably sort of stay more or less the same, but we are looking into that of course. As always in this macroeconomic situation, we have to sort of look how we right size and have the right sort of personnel in-house. When you're reading your research report, they never include the semiconductor in their indium-phosphide supply chain graphics. They also seem quite cautious in the consumer content. Do you believe they're aware of Sivers? No, I don't think they are really aware of us yet. We're still very small as I say, in the U.S., in the -- understanding in the markets outside sort of the customers. And that's what we need to work on now to get more known. I think since we're not sort of in any sort of volume shipments, yes, Yole has not sort of seen us in the market and include us. But we need to work on that, and I have to go back to them and discuss. But that hasn't been our sort of main focus to be seen by Yole in themselves, but we'll probably get there when we get to the next step. Are you taking a loan, it needs to be repaid? Are you looking for larger order intake? Yes, of course. I mean, that's what we hope for now going forward -- from Q4 and forward. We are expecting large order intake and of course the loan has to be paid back at some point. How is it going with the [indiscernible] project? Are any sales in the near term? We are working on that. We don't have a good update on where they are right now. But I know that we are discussing sort of volumes for next year and how that will pan out. We all -- we know all that ALL:SPACE is a customer within SATCOM. Do you have other customers in the SATCOM? Yes, we have. Can you say anything about the size of any other SATCOM customers you have direct sales with? I mean, the sales is currently smaller NRE projects ranging from sort of SEK 0.5 million to SEK 1.5 million. It's early phases. When we see we start making forecast? Yes, as soon as we get sort of away from NRE and get more into sort of a running business when it comes to sales. So it's hard to say yet, but hopefully maybe end of next year, but it's a bit early to say that yet. Could you repeat what you said about wireless growing faster in the coming fact? What this remark compare with your Photonics business or [indiscernible] the reason behind the comment. So the wireless is sort of -- we're seeing at least in the forecast we have that wireless are and will be growing much ever and in the same type of growth we see now in the future and even more. So from that perspective, the coming 5 quarters will be very important for the wireless growth. Photonics is still on an NRE basis, but also you can see the development of sort of the larger customers and when they come into play. So they need to come into play for Photonics to also grow in higher numbers. Status on F100 customer, 4 and 5, will you sign them this year? I don't know if we will sign. We are working on several new Fortune 100s and the interest after the ECOF event was very large. So I think we've added more sort of possible customers into the pipeline where we can see in the future. So I'm hopeful that we will sign up more in the future. But exactly when, I cannot sort of go into. Photonics development projects are taking a lot of time getting to actual sales. Can you guide us a little bit more in when Sivers will get actual sales that's not NRE volume? Yes. So when we look at those projects, they have been taking a lot more time than we also ourselves was hoping for. If that's connected to sort of technology-wise on the customer side, we're not 100% sure. And also sort of what -- which effect has the pandemic and all of those things had on sort of the -- that is longer than expected time frames. We've said before 2 to 4 years, we're now at 4 years. So it's hard- actually, to say when they come to NRE -- to go from NRE to volume. But I think we're getting closer and closer. That's what I can say. Have you got any design wins? We have design wins coming in a way. But we are also reviewing how to sort of talk about the design wins versus design-ins and so forth. And there were different ways of presenting design wins between Sivers, MixComm and the Photonics business. We are reviewing that and we will come back with sort of an update on exactly how that sort of is evaluated and sort of more stringent how that's done. So let's come back to that. The old Sivers customers within wireless, meaning not the MixComm, when will you get any sales that are volume? So yes, like I said, we are expecting a lot of those now to come into a bit more volume from the end of this year and forward into next year. But it is still, as I said, a bit of more delay in that market due to the things I mentioned. Cash positive quarter seems to be quite a bit into the future. When can you expect the cash flow positive for Sivers? I mean, I would love to be able to tell you, but we are not giving forecast. So I cannot tell you. But we're doing everything right now to get to that. And that is sort of the main focus right now in both from a sort of a cost perspective, but also from a top line perspective. Can you say anything about Inmarsat deal with the U.S. Navy and if that had a positive effect of Sivers and Inmarsat Cooperation with ALL:SPACE? Yes, I think so. I mean, as far as I know, ALL:SPACE is working with Inmarsat and all the different satellite suppliers. So I think that's an important part. And also, the U.S. Navy and the U.S. military in general is an important customer for ALL:SPACE. Any new products coming out soon, which types? I mean, we are working on some Photonics solutions for data centers which is a product that we have in the pipe. We are sort of working on the ongoing projects that is, for example, with the Tier 1 customer and so forth. But it is also products that we have already. So it's not sort of any new work in that sense. Will you look into cost reductions since they seem to have a too large workforce then you managed to compensate in actual sales? Of course, we also will always look into how we manage our cost side of things and right size when needed. More money is needed into the company compared to your burn rate. When will you hear more about how long term will solve this? I mean, we have sold it now short term in a way and this short term could be, you know, anything from up to 12 to 15 months in that sense. But we are, of course, in a very interesting situation with Fortune 100 customers and so forth that we proceed to get more and more information from. And from that perspective, there's going to be investments into building out the factories and stuff that we talked about. So we will come back to that when we have things to share. Tell us more about the other Fortune 100s? Yes. So there is not much to update on the second Fortune 100. Right now they are still evaluating. The third one is deliveries going out too -- going really well. We also have new work packages for them that we will probably sign on to during the coming sort of 6 months. So I think we have a positive view on the third Fortune 100 in that case. Can we talk a little bit about lead times within the different business areas? What are normal lead comes from order to delivery? Yes. So as I said for Photonics, sort of for an order to delivery it could range -- I mean, from sort of a standard order to getting something out, could be anything from 6 weeks to 12 weeks. But it also depends a bit. When it comes to wireless, we have stock in and as you can see on our working capital, we have stock, we can even sometimes deliver within a week. But if there is sort of really, really large orders, we will have to have up to 6 to 9 months sometimes. So it is very dependent on the size of the order and when. The U.S. based customer for Photonics devices, anything new can we expect them to go forward? I'm not sure which customer that is. Yes, we have more -- I mean, different ones, but I'm not sure if you're talking about the LiDAR customer. But, yes. I mean, we are working on all of the customers. We haven't sort of lost any Photonics customers. We're working on. It takes a long time, but not lost anyone. I'm not sure. When will you start building our new Photonic production facility in Scotland or your own or with some partner? I mean, we haven't decided that yet. It is all connected to our friends at the Fortune 100 customers which is sort of first in the pipeline for very large volumes. And it's not sure if we either build it in Scotland. I mean with the Ship Act and all of that in the U.S. and now being sort of also a U.S. company, I think that's also a possibility. So we'll come back to when, but we're looking into it as we speak. Can you elaborate a little on how much a build-out in the Glasgow factor would cost in case of go ahead or pilot line? So we have been talking about everything for pilot lines from something like SEK 30 million, up to a sort of full production at SEK 150 million. So that depends. But that is sort of then to be able to deliver anything from SEK 50 million to SEK 150 million maybe per year in sales from just 1 of the 14,100. So it is connected to that kind of cost and possible income. Has any new customer or project come through Richardson or how is it partnership going on for? Yes, we are working with customers from Richardson. We haven't yet sort of signed any big deals, but there are a pipeline that we see. And I think that was the last question I have here right now. Any more questions, please. I can give you 30 seconds to type them in. Otherwise, I take the time to thank you all for listening in, and it's been a pleasure having you. And I'm looking forward. MaxLinear update. Yes, MaxLinear we have shipped the first prototypes for that customer that we're working together with, that was shipped here in Q3 and we are happy to see that. Oh, getting a lot of questions. Fujikura, yes. Fujikura is growing quite slow I would say. But they have now a lot of different things and they've been working on these automotive things with buses and stuff in Japan and we hope to see more orders from them soon. Yes, I've got 3 questions on Fujikura. The U.S.-based customer for custom Photonics devices, anything you can expect? I'm not sure which order from January. I got -- we got an order I think in December, still not sure which one that is. Any thoughts about India, do you have concrete talks about 28 gigahertz? Yes, we are actually talking with customers in India right now. We also have a reseller in India. We've got some early sample orders and test orders from some Indian companies way back as well, so. So evo-rail worldwide? Yes. I mean, we can see that evo-rail which is a Blu Wireless customer. They are up in the solutions when it comes to sort of hiring people in Spain, Germany, U.S., everywhere. So I think it's just sort of a question of time will they actually start roll out in more countries and we're hopeful for that. Cambium, Cambium is going quite okay. We have got some orders in, but they are not as quick as we have hoped for so far as I mentioned for the rollout in general. The order from December is for Photonic? Yes, that is the LiDAR customer. And we have been delivering that on that and we are negotiating next steps with them. Regarding the Photonics capacity investment commitment of SEK 150 million, is it in 1 and 1 in CapEx investment annual sales ratio? No. I mean, as I mentioned, I mean, the investment is somewhere between SEK 30 million to SEK 250 million. And depending on the size and sales from the customer can range from ever from SEK 50 million to SEK 150 million for that particular customer, then we can actually get Ayar Labs or other customers into that part as well and deliver to them. So it is not a 1 to 1 in that sense, if I understand the question correctly. Yes, the 5.3 million Photonics order, that's the December order from last year and that was the update I just gave you. So you like Samsung or Apple Mobile? I'm an Android user and I'm using an Android phone today. So that's -- but that's probably because I came from that type of OS when I worked for Sony Ericsson one way back. It's closer to that. Tier 1 rollout, I already answered that. 8devices playing out well. We have been sort of selling stuff on 8devices. It has not been sort of as much as we hope for a short term I would say. But in general I think we have a very good solution with them and, yes. Looking at new companies to purchase, we are not looking right now in that sense. I mean, the macroeconomic market for acquisitions and capital to get acquisitions is quite challenging, I would say for many different ones. So I don't think that is the sort of main focus or term line. We're also working on the integration with MixComm and get that to go and we're in a good place there now, so. Tell us more about Siemens Healthineers? Yes, we -- Siemens Healthineers is one of those sort of smaller customers, even that the company name is big and so forth. There's one of those smaller customers we are evaluating right now if they are actually still something we would see in the future or not. And that's what I will come back with this sort of update on design wins and the signings. We haven't seen sort of great movement and they haven't moved a lot as we hoped for. So that could be one of those design-ins that is not sort of with us more in the future, but we are evaluating that as we speak. If you have not already commented any comment on the changes with Mike Noonan? Yes. So Mike have got an offer for a CEO job at another company and I mean, he is the CEO in general and he's been sort of coming to MixComm to start and he have accepted the CEO role in another company. And as you might have seen, we were well aware that this was supposed to happen. So we had him as an interim manager the whole time. And now we're sort of very happy that Harish is actually picking this up and doing a great job at that. How long time will it take to build a production facility Photonics? It will depend a bit on sort of the full capacity or not. But I would say everything from 12 to 18 months to build out. But we should also remember when we start to build out of the capacity, we can also use our own fab. So we will have a way of ramping up in these 2. What are you expecting from the Q4 quarter? I mean, we are expecting to see, as I mentioned, more and more sales, more and more purchase orders. And as I said before, the second half of this year is sort of the start of the growth phase for the company. And as I've said already, we have already got SEK 40 million in the last 5, 6 weeks. Who is going to be responsible for Photonics in the U.S.? So currently we have a photonics business that are responsible. We have salespeople in the U.K. as well. And the CEO is working with sales. We're all working in connection with that. So we're looking at how we will for the future after this that Mike is leaving, how we will sort of address that. Okay. Time is coming up. I would like to thank you all for listening and I have to go to another interview. . Thank you very much.