Sivers Semiconductors AB (publ) (SIVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to Sivers Semiconductor's Q3 Report for 2025. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to CEO, Vickram Vathulya; and CFO, Heine Thorsgaard. Please go ahead.

Thank you. This is Vickram Vathulya, and welcome to everybody for our third quarter 2025 webcast. I'm super happy to have Heine Thorsgaard with us as well. He's our new CFO that started in September. So let's get right into the presentation. So the agenda will be an executive summary from myself, Heine will go over the financial results, and I'll come back to talk about markets, customers, business update and key takeaways. Then we'll have a Q&A session. In terms of our financials, this has been another very strong quarter, Q3. We came in with SEK 72.5 million as revenues. That's a 24% year-on-year increase for Q3, and that's 34% year-to-date. We also need to note that the dollar has continued to weaken against European currencies and we do not hedge for currency. And if you look at a constant FX rate, this delivers a 40% year-to-date growth in our revenues, and that is a remarkable achievement for the company. We continue to focus on profitability and year-to-date, our adjusted EBITDA has improved by 30%. We continue to manage our expenses, feed the important strategic activities inside the company while we keep a close handle on expenses. As I've mentioned before, product revenues are a key metric for the company as we make the transformation to become a predominantly product company in 5 years from now and we had product revenues of SEK 18.9 million. That's a 15% year-on-year increase for the quarter and year-to-date, that's a 19% increase in product revenues. So we continue to march very well on that journey. Some key highlights. We have an exciting partnership with POET Technologies for pluggables and external light sources for co-packaged optics in AI data centers. When I come back to the markets and business section, I'll give a lot more detail on this, but this holds tremendous promise. A lot of opportunities, as I mentioned before, ever since our trade shows last year where we presented our latest technology updates in the wireless business and the fact that we will be providing standard product configuration samples in the first half of next year, a lot of opportunities have been growing in the pipeline, and we expect to show progress against many of these opportunities in the coming quarters. In addition to that, it is very exciting that we are in the middle of multiple technical engagements with SATCOM terminal vendors on the biggest European space infrastructure modernization product -- project, and that's called IRIS2, and again, I'll talk more about it. As we continue to transform the company, we are leveraging the best of the talent we have inside, but also bringing in essential leadership. And we have strengthened our leadership with Heine's appointment as our CFO and we've also brought on a VP of Global Operations and Quality as we start releasing more standard products in the market that go into production and beyond. As you can see, we did a successful capital raise in September, which was led by an existing institutional investor, but we also added Danish, Polish and Norwegian institutions. And I want to make sure our investors understand that whenever we go to raise capital, we are very, very focused on bringing in high-quality, high-tech, long-term investors that come into the company and are looking for that future to be delivered over the several upcoming years. We also always look at accelerating our R&D, accelerating our go-to-market plans and resourcing with such capital raises, but we continuously look to streamline our capital structure as well. And one of the things we were able to do this time was a partial debt paydown, which also helped us reduce the number of outstanding warrants with the debt provider by 50%. So we continue to shape the capital structure of the company and optimize it to put us in the best place as we deliver to our plans and growth in the future years. With that being said, I want to turn this over to Heine, and I'll come back for the markets and business update. So Heine, please go ahead.

Thank you, Vickram, and good morning, everyone. Today, I'll walk you through our financial performance for the third quarter, highlighting our revenue growth, business unit performance, product and project execution and the underlying trends that are shaping our results. We continue to execute on our strategy, and I'm pleased to share the progress we've made this quarter. Before we dive into the numbers, I want to emphasize that our results this quarter reflect the resilience of our business model and our ability to adapt to a dynamic market environment. We faced FX headwinds, and yet we've continued to deliver strong growth and operational improvements. Our focus remains on driving sustainable, profitable growth while investing in innovation and operational excellence. Let's start with our headline numbers. Q3 2025 was another record quarter for Sivers Semiconductors, and we delivered SEK 72.5 million in sales for the quarter, representing a 24% increase year-over-year. In constant currency, our growth was even stronger at 34% for the quarter and 40% for the first 3 quarters. This is the highest Q3 revenue in the company's history achieved despite FX headwinds. Adjusted EBITDA for Q3 was negative SEK 10.5 million and year-to-date adjusted EBITDA improved by SEK 9.5 million or 30% compared to last year, reaching negative SEK 21.6 million. These results show that we are not only growing our top line, but also improving our profitability and maintaining new revenue baselines. Our ability to deliver such growth demonstrates the resilience of our business model and the effectiveness of our strategic initiatives. Looking at the trend lines, you'll see that our revenue growth has been constant over the past several quarters with Q3 marking a continuation of this positive trajectory. We are setting new benchmarks for the company, and this momentum positions us well for the remainder of the year and beyond. Both our business units contributed to this strong performance. Wireless net sales grew by 30% year-over-year in Q3, reaching SEK 53.1 million. And Photonics net sales increased by 10% year-over-year, reaching SEK 19.4 million. This balanced growth highlights the strength of our dual business strategy. In Wireless, we continue to see robust demand, particularly from SATCOM customers, and our solutions are gaining traction in both established and emerging markets. In Photonics, our focus on project qualification and manufacturing readiness for next-generation AI data centers is paying off and we are seeing increased requests for our technology, especially from Asia and our partnership with POET Technologies is opening new opportunities in both pluggable and co-packaged optics. The consistent performance across both units underpins our confidence in the company's long-term growth trajectory. We are well positioned to benefit from industry trends such as SATCOM growth and the expansion of high-speed connectivity and the increasing adoption of advanced Photonics solutions. Our transformation towards a product business is progressing well. Product sales grew by 15% year-over-year in Q3, reaching SEK 18.9 million. Year-to-date, product sales are up 19%. We are maintaining product sales levels that support our strategic transformation towards higher-value differentiated offerings. The steady increase in product sales is a testament to our innovation and our ability to bring solutions to the market that meet evolving customer needs. Additionally, our investments in R&D and our commitment to operational efficiency are enabling us to deliver products that are both technologically advanced and commercially attractive. This positions us well to capture future growth opportunities as the market continues to evolve. Finally, I want to highlight our continued strength and discipline in project execution. Despite FX headwinds in the summer holiday periods, we delivered strong project execution in Q3, resulting in high NRE revenue. NRE revenue was up 27% year-over-year for the quarter and 41% year-to-date. This disciplined project execution is a cornerstone of our financial performance and a key driver of our growth. Our robust project pipeline and execution capabilities positions us well for sustained high revenue levels. We continue to invest in new product generations, ensuring we have the technology and capacity to meet growing market demand. Looking ahead, we remain committed to delivering on our project commitments and expanding our customer base. Our ability to execute complex projects is a key differentiator for Sivers Semiconductors. In summary, Q3 2025 was a quarter of strong growth, improved profitability and continued operational excellence. We delivered results in line with what we communicated at our Capital Markets Day earlier this year and set new records for revenue, all while investing in the technology, people and processes that will drive our future growth. And we are excited about the opportunities ahead and remain committed to delivering value for all stakeholders. Back to you, Vickram.

Thanks, Heine. So let's get into markets and a business update. As I've maintained to our investor base, we are going after 2 very powerful secular trends, namely AI acceleration and millimeter wave adoption. And we have identified a focus market each for our businesses. So I want to talk a little bit more about those markets today and what's happening there and what does it mean for Sivers. One of them is AI data centers for our lasers business, our Photonics business. And to reiterate, accelerating compute needs and the electric grid power scarcity is what creates a tremendous opportunity for us because there are multiple ways in which you can reduce the energy footprint within an AI data center, and that's a huge focus from the entire ecosystem. But this is important, so let's spend a couple of minutes on this. We have talked about the challenge to reduce the energy footprint is both on the compute side, which is getting more and more compute intensive, but also in moving data between these compute engines, which is the transmit and receive part. And inside the data center and between data centers, you'll find a combination of copper and optical. And I want the audience to focus on the picture on the right. The picture on the left simply states hyperscalers like Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, they continue to increase their spend on building out these AI data centers. But let's look to the right. The right picture shows as we stand today, a lot of copper that used to be in data centers has already moved to optical. And there is a portion of it that still remains copper, which over the next several years is also expected to migrate to optical to really get the best advantages of optical inside a data center instead of copper, which heats up and is limited in bandwidth. But here, the important thing to note is as AI data centers need to get more efficient, the demands on the bandwidth and the speeds of these data centers is also going up. What does this mean? This means that even the existing optical links, which is an existing piece of the market, needs to evolve to higher speeds. At the same time, in the longer run, the remaining copper also needs to move towards optical. So the way we want to think about this is there is an existing market segment within data centers, which is the existing optical links that have to provide new generations of speed. And there is a future market segment, which is often called co-packaged optics, which needs the rest of the copper to also move to optical. The big news for our audience today is by talking to customers on both sides, which is in the existing optical links market as well as the future market of co-packaged optics, Sivers' laser technology can be applicable to both. And what we are now calling this is the evolution in the optical links, which are called pluggables and the revolution, which is co-packaged optics. So we are now able to target our Sivers' laser technology to both these segments of the market, which expands the serviceable available market for us. Let's talk a little bit more about what that means. In the existing market, which is called pluggable transceivers, until speeds reached 800 gigabits per second, technology called externally modulated lasers were good enough. But as the speeds get to 800 and beyond, that market also needs to rely on CW lasers and silicon photonics and that brings Sivers into play for that evolution in the pluggable market as well. Co-packaged optics is where we have primarily been working on in the past with thought leaders for this ultimate revolution. But now talking to customer potentials in Asia and at our trade conferences, we are finding out that our technology has applications even within this existing market in the coming years. And that's very exciting because it allows us to identify more revenue stream possibilities for Sivers' laser technology than we had previously envisioned. As you all know, we continue to work with WIN Semiconductors, which is our production partner, and that project continues to progress very well to get our lasers ready for production at scale. And like the wireless business, we are also getting ready to sample the standard configuration lasers for the pluggable markets as well in the first half of next year. So these are exciting opportunities that we are chasing with our laser technology. Let's talk a little bit more about the POET partnership. This, again, allows us to participate in both these segments that I just talked about. And as the demand for these new AI data centers goes up, the volume economics of the optical links of today that have to evolve as well as the need for co-packaged optics-based solutions, the volume needs will keep climbing, which means the expectation will be that the economies of scale improve beyond current levels. So what does this partnership bring? POET Technologies has a novel way of providing an interposer or a substrate technology, which allows to integrate the laser seamlessly and absorb all the other optical components to provide an optical engine, and that's what you see with the picture on the left. This optical engine makes life tremendously easy for either a pluggable transceiver maker or somebody who needs an external light source for co-packaged optics. And it significantly cuts down assembly cost, improves economies of scale. So as pluggable transceiver customers want to evolve their speeds of their solutions, they're also looking to find better economies of scale. Similarly, the revolution with co-packaged optics is also looking for very efficient ways to build these external light sources. And that's the potential of this partnership. It allows them beneficial economies of scale with a seamless, scalable light engine platform. More to come on this as that partnership evolves. So let me now switch to SATCOM, which is the focus market for our wireless business. It's important for us to understand there's already a lot of space infrastructure up in the sky. But what has been the biggest realization is the world needs ubiquitous broadband and terrestrial networks have not come up with good ways of solving that problem and have become more and more reliant on using satellite infrastructure also to provide ubiquitous broadband, which means broadband to anybody anywhere, anytime. Unfortunately, the satellite networks already up in the sky do not do a good job of leveraging each other's infrastructure. I've given several ecosystem challenges on the right side of this slide. The operators don't communicate with each other. Terminals that are what we call user ground terminals cannot talk to different multiple satellites. There's no convergence in orbits. There is no sharing between military and commercial networks. There is very bad leverage of all the frequency of communications that are used, right? In essence, there is not much convergence to maximally use the infrastructure in the sky already. And in the meantime, more satellites are going up. And this is globally recognized as a problem that needs to be solved as a challenge that needs to be overcome. So there is massive upgrade cycles and budgeted investments ahead of us from the industry to make sure not only do we get ubiquitous broadband, but it is done in an efficient manner by leveraging the infrastructure best. So that all sounds good, but why is this relevant for Sivers, right? So let's talk about that. Well, the user terminal is the key to solving this problem. The next generation of user terminals, our focus, by the way, is in the defense section or the commercial and enterprise section of these user terminals. You find them on land, on water and in the sky. These new generational terminals need to leverage all the infrastructure up in the sky, which the current generations don't. So what does that mean? A terminal needs to be multi-orbit, which means it should talk to any satellite up in the sky regardless of how high up in the sky it is or how low in the sky it is. It has to leverage any frequency that's available for communication. We call that multi-band. And finally, it has to hold multiple links at the same time, either for robustness of the communication link or for make before break functionality. That is defining the future of SATCOM terminal upgrades and Sivers' technology with our beamformers and our antenna arrays can support that future functionality extremely well. And that's why we find ourselves right in the middle of a lot of active conversations to enable the next-generation terminal upgrades. So let's click into that in 2 cases for today. One of them is our lead customer, ALL.SPACE, and I've talked to you about ALL.SPACE, but what I want to really talk to you about is the technology leadership that they have along with our technology and how it's expanding their customer pipeline and offering broader ecosystem support. So on the left side, what you see is the original intention of the ALL.SPACE terminals was to support defense agencies with the world's most advanced defense user terminal. And that pipeline within the Defense segment has expanded into the Army stream, into the Navy stream with more and more programs coming online. And as often, these programs after the U.S. defense has deployed it and found it to be at the right commercialization level, often get followed by the NATO countries as well. So that was the primary dimension of our partnership with ALL.SPACE. But now what ALL.SPACE has also done is they've increased and continue to increase constellation support for their terminals. They already support multiple satellite constellations such as Viasat, SES, WGS. But recently, they've also added support for Amazon Kuiper and Telesat Lightspeed. And what does this mean? This expands the realm of opportunities for selling product beyond the traditional Defense segment that ALL.SPACE started out with. And this then, in turn, means more Sivers content in more ALL.SPACE terminals that sell not only to defense, but also outside of defense to other networks and other constellations. And thirdly, ALL.SPACE continues to be involved very well with the European Space Agency. Most recently, they got ARTIS Program funding because as I said before, the terrestrial networks are struggling to provide ubiquitous broadband. So they are wanting to partner with the satellite companies so that these user terminals are able to converge between 5G and 6G and also the satellite infrastructure, right? So ALL.SPACE, which started off as a defense exposure for us, is gradually expanding their pipeline beyond defense, which is great news for us as well because that means more ALL.SPACE terminals in multiple market segments, and that means more Sivers content as well. So that's with our lead customer. And now in addition to other -- many other opportunities that are progressing through our wireless pipeline and that we expect to come out to the market as we reach milestones in the coming quarters, I did want to take this opportunity to talk to our audience about IRIS2. IRIS2 stands for infrastructure for resilience, interconnectivity and security by satellite. But if you want to simplify it, it's basically Europe's biggest attempt and commitment for the first multi-orbital converged satellite network in Europe. This is a EUR 10.6 billion funding that's a public-private partnership between the European Union, the European Space Agency and what is called the SpaceRISE Consortium. This program is basically SpaceRISE, and it's all about modernizing space infrastructure for the European sovereign geography. We've all seen that, that self-sufficiency is going to be important in a multiple variety of scenarios. The SpaceRISE Consortium is led by Eutelsat, SES and Hispasat. As you know, Eutelsat is French, SES out of Luxembourg, Hispasat is Spain. And as part of the consortium is also Airbus, Thales, Deutsche Telekom, Orange, OHB and Hisdesat. So this consortium brings technology, operator experience to making IRIS2 a reality. And the plan is to deploy about 290 LEO/MEO satellites, which are low earth and medium earth orbit satellites operational by 2030 and the focus is convergence and interoperability. There has to be stuff that talks to these satellites, which is where the user terminals come in, and those RFIs have also been issued. This is a tremendous opportunity for Sivers, as I've talked in earlier earnings releases and other forums. We have the beamformer, the digitizer and the antenna array technology and products coming out that firmly fit the needs of what these user terminals require. We continue to stay strongly engaged with the European Space Agency, and we are already in discussion with multiple terminal vendors that are also part of this group that has to make IRIS2 happen. For the satellites to be operational by 2030, the infrastructure should be in place ahead of that, right? So this makes it very interesting in our strategic view framework as a tremendous opportunity coming into the pipeline, and we are right in the middle of many technical discussions with terminal vendors and the ESA. So let's move to key takeaways. And here, I want to take a moment to thank our long-term focused committed investors, both on our institutional side and our retail side. A huge thanks for you guys to show us the support as we have engaged on this journey. But I wanted to provide you some perspective that I also want you to take away in today's session. So in the semiconductor industry, companies are valued by the multiples the market gives them, and those are primarily driven by 2 metrics: forward revenue growth rate for the next couple of years and the gross margins in the business. And I've just tried to give you a feel. So in the table that you see here, you see division by the gross margins of the business and also the growth rates they are projecting in the upcoming 2 years. And I've placed some companies. This is not an exhaustive list, but relevant companies with exposure to wireless technology as well as the photonics side of the business. And you can see in brackets the multiples that these companies are offered based on revenue expectations for 2025 and their outlook for the next 2 years of their growth rates in revenue and where they are with respect to their gross margins. This is a very strong correlation that happens in the semiconductor industry. I've been in this industry for 27 years now, and there is a strong correlation to these 2 metrics. If you remember the Capital Markets Day, we talked to our investors, we talked about our strategic plans, and we talked about having these 20% to 30% type growth rates as our composite aggregate growth rates over the next 5 years. And that is something we still see our pipeline supporting, right? What I want you to realize is this doesn't have to be moonshot promises. What we are looking to do is build a sustained profitable growth trajectory as a product company. So that's the opportunity here to drive shareholder value creation. So again, I really appreciate our investors that are with us for this journey. And as you can see, even from results to date, we are positioning through our execution, through our pipeline development for the top corner here, but in a sustainable, meaningful way that we can keep for the long term and continue to drive growth profitably. And it's very clear that as we talk to our retail investors, as we talk to our institutional investors, there is tremendous support for Sivers as they see us continue to execute to this. So that's the opportunity here for tremendous value creation. And we all know right now where the valuation is for the company. And at least I personally feel there is tremendous potential here as we continue to execute. We are already executing in 2025, and we have a firm path to position in these top corners. And you can see how companies are rewarded for this type of performance. Finally, recapping what we talked about today, strong Q3 FY '25 results. That's now 4 quarters in a row of building, telling our investors what we are working on and then executing to it, an exciting partnership with POET and our product sales continue to grow. With what we have learned now with the products we are bringing to market, we are able to expand our laser SAM to pluggables, which is an existing optical market inside data centers, while also keeping our technology edge for the revolution with co-packaged optics in the future. So that's very exciting for us to expand our serviceable available market. We are extremely well positioned for the Europe IRIS2 space modernization initiative and in talks with several terminal vendors. We've added critical top shelf leadership as we strengthen our transformation journey. And the successful directed raise we did in September was for me to build some war chest because I want to accelerate now that we know the types of standard configurations our customers want in both our businesses, I want to accelerate these product samplings and releases and also put more resources in the field to support this expanding opportunity pipeline of customers, right? So those are all very exciting takeaways for us. And that brings us to the end of our webinar today, and we now open up for Q&A. So we'll switch to the Q&A section now.

So let me take -- so we continue to work to progress on the CHIPS Act. There's a question on the CHIPS Act project. We are developing the demonstrators, and we have showcased them to the CHIPS Act agencies. And normally, what will happen is the CHIPS Act agency considers all the projects that they have in the pipeline, and they decide which ones they want to push forward with the next level and then which ones they believe are less relevant and they might deprioritize and then put more money into the ones that they prioritize. So we continue to work with the U.S. CHIPS Act agencies on both our projects right now and providing the demonstrators. And then when we get the information on which projects they want to double down on, which projects are not as relevant for the future, then we will be able to come back to the market. The aim from the U.S. CHIPS Act is to focus on the ones where partners that work with us show the most promise to take that technology into a product and commercialize it. And that is completely in line with how we think about Sivers as well as we become a product company. We also want to prioritize projects that have firm connections to productization. Let me keep looking here. There's a question on ALL.SPACE. As I think the point here is the when will we see revenues from ALL.SPACE beyond what they have done so far? As I said, the first wave of deployments are into defense agencies and defense agencies have a very grueling qualification schedule. They have to get technologies to what they call TRL Level 6 and beyond. And those things are going really well, but it does take that time to then hit the inflection point, and that's what we are working on. And we expect that to come in, in the first half of 2026 going into the second half of 2026. Defense always takes a little bit more checks and balances as they finally approve for deployment. We're also very excited by the other streams of revenue that ALL.SPACE has identified, as I've mentioned as well, because they add on top of the defense pipeline. There's a question on the POET partnership and the press release, et cetera. So POET being the driver has made their press release. And so we augmented it with our LinkedIn post. And as I said, the PR policy that we have, again, we want to be selective and put the press releases of most impact for our investors out in the market. And where our partners are out with the first news, we try to augment them with our other forums and also participate in that news release. There's a question about when will we start with customers and when will products and volume orders come in. I've been in this industry long enough. We've been focusing our efforts in the areas that will yield products in the future, right? So we have culled a lot of projects that don't have that tight tie-in to production demand. And these products do have a qualification cycle from us. They have a qualification cycle from our customers. And that progress continues. And as you see, you've seen we are already growing in '25. We expect to grow in '26, '27. And these are all not out of phantom revenue projections we have. They come from our pipeline. They come from the timing of our pipeline, and that is what is built into our strategic planning. So these things take time, but we are growing in '25, and we expect that growth with more of a mix of products in the coming years. So one of the questions is, hey, how are things going with Ayar Labs? How are things going with other customers in Photonics, et cetera? I want the audience to realize that as we are working with multiple customers, we are realizing that a lot of this market has the same type of product demands into the pluggable area as well as the co-packaged optics area. So right now, our plan is to maximize our return on R&D. So we want to make sure that our products are not exclusive to anybody, that they are developed with the intent of driving the largest demand for our products, which also then allows for a bigger pipeline to come through. So there are many customers that are very interested in our technology that we continue to work with and support. But right now, we want to maximize our exposure with our products. And those are products that we are sampling in Q4 and Q1 for Photonics and Q1 and Q2 for Wireless. I think there was a question on the samples as well, which I've answered. And a question on use of financing. I believe I've answered this question as well where I said the bulk of the financing is for us to go on the offensive and drive fast releases of our standard product configurations. And as our customer pipeline builds, in the past, we have supported these customers with engineering that is also our development engineering. And that's not scalable because you want your development engineers to be developing your new products. So now we are focused on field resources, which actually go and support our customers while our development engineering can continue to accelerate release of products, okay? Those 2 areas take the biggest chunk of our capital raise. At the same time, when we see an opportunity to have a better balance between our equity and debt financing, we will do that as well. As I've shown this time, we have paid down our debt financing to some extent and also gotten that opportunity to retire outstanding warrants as well, which is good for our existing shareholders also. There's a question on, okay, what are key pivotal events that can deliver sales growth in Photonics? And then as I said, the biggest discovery over the last quarter for us is our technology also has access to the existing pluggables market as they need to develop higher speeds, right? So sampling these customers in Q4 and Q1, getting those products qualified now has opened our aperture beyond the CPO market, which is the future, but also allows us to participate in nearer-term opportunities, right? So sampling our customers in Q4 and Q1 is an important event because that then creates the next level of traction with our pluggable customers as well. If you look at competition in SATCOM market, this is an area where we continue to have a leading-edge technology, whether it is with the multi-orbit, the multi-link capability and the multi-band capability. So we never take our competition lightly. We have a couple of big competitors, but we are staying well ahead. And that is testament to the number of technical discussions we are having with a variety of SATCOM terminal vendors that are participating in the IRIS2 program bids, okay? The question on the India market. I just want to be clear. We have opened a center in Bangalore, India, and this is primarily to augment our wireless R&D teams. And India has traditionally been a strong developer of talent in millimeter wave RF and microwave RF. And recently, we have seen a lot of technical professionals, especially seasoned technical professionals relocating back to India from various parts of the world. This allows us the opportunity to add them to the Sivers team and also, again, help us do more projects, help us do projects faster, working along with our Swedish and U.S. teams. There's a question on ALL.SPACE ramp-up production. As I said, this is -- 2026 is the year we are working on as some of their defense opportunities are going to go into production. And then on the tail of it, we are also looking for increased sales from other parts of their business towards the end of 2026 and going into 2027 as well. There's a question on, do you think revenue will keep increasing quarter-for-quarter? Listen, we continue to execute to make sure we are driving towards the composite aggregate growth rate that we talked about at our Capital Markets Day, right? To do that, on a year-on-year basis, we have to grow. Sequential quarters, we, of course, look for growth to build in, but it's not a straight line in general. I mean if somebody is asking me, is your quarter-to-quarter going to grow for the next x quarters, it's not a straight line, but we are driving towards that type of growth rate for the next 4 to 5 years as we have outlined in the Capital Markets Day. And the way our pipeline is developing, we continue to stay comfortable with that type of guidance that we gave at Capital Markets Day. As I said, I think -- I mean, many of the questions are basically asking the same thing on what is the process for something to go from technical engagement to production, et cetera. And this is the same in most markets. The time window might be a little different. We sample our customers, especially now that our focus is on standard product configurations to as many customers as possible. The customers have to test the samples and they put them on their boards, and they have their own product qualifications while our products are qualified. These are several quarter type efforts. And so again, I draw your attention back to we are staging our opportunities and carefully selecting them so that the opportunity pipeline drives what we are talking about as our revenue growth in our Capital Markets Day. That's how you got to be looking for. Important things you should be looking for in the next 12 to 24 months, are we sampling our standard products as we talked about. And then as we get them in the hands of our customers and they are working with these things, we'll come back with meaningful updates. Those are all things you should be watching for. Let me see if there's anything else. Do you see traction in the FWA business? If so, how -- what our customers say they want. As I said, we continue to work very closely with our top-tier infrastructure vendor. And those projects are proceeding well and on time. And so again, as we see them work on releasing their product next year, we will see how that business takes up. And as I've mentioned before, we have these outposts like FWA in wireless. And if those things take off in a strong manner, then we're going to, of course, add resources to make sure we take full advantage of that as well. So that was a bunch of questions on the customer in the wireless side that is not the SATCOM customer, which I've talked to you about. Let me see. There's a question on first step with POET as pluggables. No, we look at both opportunities, okay? We look at opportunities in pluggables as well as CPO. What I'm trying to say to the audience today is pluggables is an existing market. So we want to make sure our technology is able to find homes at customers on the pluggable side as well in addition to getting ready for CPO. So we have a two-pronged approach looking at possibilities on both sides. There's a question on does the share price affect you in any way? Is it relevant to you? Look, I've done this enough in the past. We work on the plan that we tell our investors. We try to keep our North Star. We try to make sure we make consistent progress. We don't rely on moonshots to satisfy some share price need at a given moment in time. We want to make sure that you as investors in us, who are focused on the long term, will see that value creation happen for you guys and all other stakeholders, including the company and our employees. So I want to make sure we give you sustained meaningful progress. This takes time, but we are building it in such a way that it's not going to be a moonshot one day and nothing the other day. And this takes time and patience, but we want to build a house that will withstand anything in the future, okay? When will WIN be able to produce your lasers? We are still on track to basically get the product qualified and ready for production by end of 2026, which is what we've got to mention even before. I think there's a question on, hey, POET, they don't have revenue now. How do you see their future, et cetera? They are getting traction now. You might have seen their announcement on a production order that came in for their EML line, et cetera. So people are getting more convinced about that type of technology as an avenue for assembly economics in a high-volume environment in the future. So again, as I said, right? POET is one of our partnerships to get to market. We also have other direct engagements and technical engagements with customers on both the pluggable side as well as the CPO side. Again, if you think about it, I'm trying to make sure our products reach the widest set of customers that are relevant in our focus markets so that we also have that diversification of our customer base. Let me see if there's anything else that I've not yet addressed. There's a question on -- are there any geopolitical supply chain-related risks, et cetera? Myself and Heine and our team, we constantly look at this to make sure are we set up well? What might -- and we are also starting to look at what might tariffs do for us in the near term, in the longer term, et cetera? And as you noticed, we also brought in an extremely experienced VP of Global Operations, Supply Chain and Quality. So Heine and our VP of Global Ops are assessing this to make sure we are as bulletproof as we can be in the supply chain in a geopolitical shifting environment. There's a question about the nature of projects in the pipeline. Is it customers that went away that are coming in or new customers, et cetera. The best way I want you guys to have a feeling for this is we are becoming extremely disciplined in both the execution of projects we have, but also in the selection of customers in the pipeline that come in. We are being highly selective and not taking on too much risk in the projects that are coming in, especially with either customer risk, product risk, market risk, right? We try to minimize things to, for the most part, one axis of innovation we need to do or take some level of risk. So there is a lot more scrutiny on the types of projects we take, especially we are not taking NRE projects for NRE's sake. There will be strategic NRE projects, but the big driving force is going to be, is there a pathway to products. And if we see any projects in our portfolio that don't have strong tie-ins to products, they will get deprioritized. They might get canceled because we want to focus on our R&D efforts going into putting products out there that sell for us over many years. There's a question about, are you going to use your own factory for pluggable market before WIN is ready? WIN being ready by end of 2026 allows us to participate in both markets with the volume production we need. We'll still make sure that if there are some sampling we need to do, we'll make sure we are able to do it from either factory of ours wherever our products are ready for sampling first. But in terms of production, WIN being ready by the end of 2026 allows for us in all these cases. Is the EU CHIPS Act relevant to you as a company? As you may know, I am part of the GSA Leadership Council in Europe, and this is something that is an active topic of discussion. In the past, the European CHIPS Act has put most of its effort on manufacturing. And what they're increasingly realizing is the way to stay competitive from a Europe point of view is to support and help mature younger, smaller companies that have the right technology and need design resourcing and technology development resources. So that's going to be the focus of EU CHIPS Act 2.0. And Sivers has given its input as well into this forum. So if that's the way EU CHIPS Act 2.0 is going to be shaped, then it is very similar to a U.S. CHIPS Act type process where there are 2 buckets of funding, right? There's a funding on the manufacturing side and then there's a funding on taking technologies from lab to fab. And in that context, there will be opportunities for companies like Sivers as well who are in Europe and have the ability to participate in the EU CHIPS Act. U.S. CHIPS Act 2026, Q4, we are expected to hear about which are the projects they want to kind of like continue to drive momentum on and then which projects they feel are less commercialization prospects, and therefore, they want to double their money on other types of projects, right? So that's something that we expect to hear in Q4 sometime. And when we have that update, we'll come back to the market along with our rest of the opportunity pipeline updates. So there's a question, are Sivers being well known among the big companies in the world? What I would say is the types of companies that are coming in to have these technical engagements that are then becoming projects, these are well-known companies. And I think I mentioned this in my Capital Markets Day as well as in my previous quarterly earnings release, when we look at our pipeline, we not only look at the quality of the pipeline, but we are also looking at how many of the customers coming in are branded customers. And we are seeing a lot of increase in branded customers that are coming into the pipeline. And that is, in some ways, a testament to the technology we are providing is getting noticed by brand name companies in the world, and that gives me a lot of enthusiasm. I think we have covered pretty much all the primary topics here. Sander, is there anything else that I might have left out? Or have I covered the broad categories of the questions that have come in? There's a question about money raise, et cetera. I think I've answered this before. The way I look at capital is, is the capital going to help me accelerate how we drive our business success. And that's kind of how I look at capital right now is how can I get things done faster, things done more effectively in the marketplace? Does that capital come in and help me fund the best opportunities I have for the company to drive even more stability in our growth profile, more strength in the pipeline and more projects that are connected to products. How do I accelerate that? That's kind of the lens with which I and Heine look at how do we capitalize the company for our future.

Yes. And Vickram, this is Sander. I think you covered all the questions. Yes.

All right. There's just one more that just come in. said, are there any interest from international investors? Let me say it this way. In the last year, I have talked to probably 125 to 150 potentials around the world, specifically focused in Europe and the U.S. And there is tremendous interest in the technologies we are developing. There's a tremendous interest in the market focus we have. And so as I said, when I do capital raises, I'm not just looking to, hey, raise money no matter what. It's with the idea of bringing in those long-term deep tech investors that will stay with us for this journey, which takes time to develop. But as we have shown now 4 quarters in a row, we continue to make progress. We continue to build the business. And with the opportunity pipeline we have, we are very confident in what we said at Capital Markets Day on how we look at growth over the next 4 to 5 years. And that is something that is not lost in our conversations with our international investors outside of Sweden as well in addition to very committed investors within Sweden too. Okay. So I think we have covered all the questions. I really appreciate the time the investors, institutional and retail investors spent with us today. We are extremely excited about what the future is holding, and we will continue to drive results here and stay focused on the journey ahead to profitable, sustainable, meaningful growth in the coming years. Thanks, everybody.