Sivers Semiconductors AB (publ) (SIVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome, everybody. Good afternoon, good morning, wherever you are around the globe. We wish you a very warm welcome. We're live from Stockholm here in Sweden. It's very sunny outside, which we much appreciate. My name is Sander Arts. I'm the host for this afternoon. I have -- I just joined Sivers as their Chief Marketing Officer, and I love value creation, which is what this afternoon is all about. I worked for a variety of companies in the semiconductor space, including Philips, NXP, Atmel, Marvell, Syntiant and SiFive. And I do have a background in AI and photonics as I worked for a few companies, including Groq, Axelera, Enfabrica, Furiosa and PhotonDelta. But this is today, and Sivers is the center of this afternoon. And before I hand over to Vickram, I'd like to tell you why I joined, which is probably very important. First of all, I love companies that have a lot of potential. And if you go back into my background, you see a few names where a lot of value was created for shareholders. And when Vickram asked me to join, I kicked the tires on the business a little bit, and I see tremendous opportunity here in Europe, but also in the United States. Sivers has managed to position itself in 2 very attractive markets, which we will talk about today, SATCOM and AI data centers, and I've been very, very impressed with my colleagues. Before I joined, Vickram asked me to talk to the team. We got incredibly high-caliber people that are transforming this business into a product company. And we're getting increasing attention. Testimony is that we are being joined by over 170 people today that are online and here in person. Thank you for coming. And I also talked to customers, and you'll hear from customers today. So before I joined, I said to Vickram, can I talk to a few customers, and I did. And it excited me to the extent that I decided to join. We got a great program for you this afternoon. So over the next 3 hours, we'll take you through a cross-section of the business. You'll hear from all of my colleagues, including Vickram and Lottie and the business unit managers. And during the breaks, but also as part of the presentations, we'll have a few customer presentations and a big shout out to Tim, who's joining us at 5:00 a.m. Tim, thank you very much. West Coast time, to give us an update from his perspective from Northland Capital Markets. Much appreciate you being part of the program. I'll come back a few times during the breaks. I'll come back during the Q&A. And with this, I'd like to hand it over to Vickram.

Thanks, Sander. Thank you. Thanks, and welcome, everybody, to our Capital Markets Day. It's an exciting day for us. And again, thanks to everybody who's here in person as well as online. I'll start off with a corporate overview, talk about a few things that are relevant to understand about our business, and then I'll pass it on to Lottie to get you more details about the financials. So at a glance, for those who are new to our company, we are headquartered in Sweden, Stockholm. We are listed on the NASDAQ Stockholm under the ticker symbol SIVE. We are in 3 geographical locations: Sweden, United States and Scotland. And we have 2 main businesses. We have a total of about 122 people now. And our 2 main businesses are Sivers Photonics, where we build differentiated lasers and laser arrays and Sivers Wireless, where we build RF beamforming solutions. So why invest in Sivers as a potential investor? You have here a unique opportunity to participate in 2 of the hottest secular trends in our industry. If you have been following the semiconductor industry, we are participating in 2 of the hottest global secular trends. And we are spending a lot of resources on 2 momentum markets. What do I mean by momentum markets, markets with a lot of tailwinds that will allow us to deploy our technology and solutions into our customers' offerings to the marketplace. In addition to that, if you look at the market, it's a very sizable market of more than $2 billion of serviceable market by 2028 onwards. And for a company our size, we have 2 highly differentiated technologies, one each supporting these 2 momentum markets that are being driven by these 2 secular trends. And as there is more awareness being created with our technology and solutions, we have a growing customer pipeline that we'll talk about, too. You put all this together, there is a Sivers' potential of tripling or quadrupling this business from where we are over the next 4 to 5 years at very healthy gross margins, okay? So if you look at this type of revenue growth in the next 4 to 5 years and you look at how semiconductor companies are valued, that is a sizable market valuation at comparable multiples. In addition to that, from the revenue levels where we are right now, we look to growth in 2 waves. The wireless business is already growing very healthily, and it will continue to do so. And as we get ready for these radical transformations in the photonics side of our business, a second wave of growth is also going to come into the company. So you see a very healthy level of revenues and 2 waves of growth coming in. So the way I want you to kind of think about this is, here's a company that's participating in the 2 hottest secular trends with relevant technologies fueled by these momentum markets and have the ability to contribute to outcomes in Europe and the U.S. Now that's a pretty unique asset. And if you want to play in these secular trends, we also firmly believe at the valuation levels we are today as a company offers a fantastic entry point for new investors as well as existing investors to add to their positions as we continue to execute on this pathway. The easy way to capture this slide in your heads is it's the tale of the 5 2s. 2 secular trends, 2 momentum markets, a $2 billion serviceable market, 2 highly differentiated technologies and 2 waves of revenue growth. So it's an easy way for you to kind of keep this in your head as the 52s, okay? So let's move forward. The last time when I joined, we were covered by Redeye, who has been covering us for a long time as a retail analyst. But I'm super happy to also say that we have now added a couple of institutional analysts that cover us as well with Carnegie in Sweden as well as Northland Capital Markets, and Tim will talk about this later from his markets perspective. So we're happy to see that analyst coverage is also increasing in the company, which just raises overall awareness for us worldwide. So let's dig in a little bit deeper. We talked about 2 long-term secular trends. One of them is AI acceleration. And if you've been watching the world of NVIDIA and AI and the hyperscalers, AI is a huge phenomenon. The training models are getting larger. The learning demands are deeper, and now we are even moving from learning to inference. And this secular trend, I don't see changing for a couple of decades or more. So that's one where it's a long-term secular trend. The other one is millimeter wave adoption or ultra-high frequency RF adoption. And that's also happening for a variety of reasons. In some markets, capacity is no longer available at the lower frequencies. In some markets, there's more need for real-time communication. In some markets, the end solutions are getting lighter and smaller. And so their payloads also need to get lighter and smaller while preserving high performance. And in the land of RF, the higher in frequency you go, you can make things smaller and lighter, okay? And in defense, threats are happening at ultra-high frequency, so we need to have methods to deter these threats and mitigate these threats as well. So that's 2 long-term secular trends. Both of them are multi-decade in my opinion. Another good thing is those 2 trends are happening in a multitude of markets. However, throughout my career, I have found it easier to deploy our technologies when you have 1 or 2 momentum markets, markets with significant tailwinds, and we'll talk about that. In our case, those 2 markets are AI data centers for our Photonics business and SATCOM or satellite communications for our wireless business. You can see there are a couple of other markets here highlighted in orange, and we'll talk about those because we maintain some outpost engagements there. But the 80/20 rule, our focus is on AI data centers for our Photonics business and SATCOM for our wireless business. And our value proposition is in both these markets, we can offer energy-efficient laser arrays for the AI data center market and RF beamforming solutions for our SATCOM market. So again, going back to the previous slide, we have the right technology for the right momentum market that's being driven by the right secular trend, okay? We have a pretty strong executive team. We have industry veterans, highly respected business and technology leaders. And our 2 recent appointments continue to strengthen our team. One of them is Alex McCann, who has joined us as the MD of the Photonics BU. And the other one you met today on site here is Sander Arts, who's joined us as the Chief Marketing Officer. So we have an extremely strong executive team because oftentimes, it's the team that determines the outcomes. And each of these leaders have very strong capable talent on their teams that are helping us drive this vision to a reality. We saw revenue momentum in Q4 2024, and that's carried into 2025 as well. We had a very strong Q1. And there are a few things to note here. Our top line hit a record in Q1. And on the right side, you can see that our product revenues in red continue to grow year-on-year. And that's a very important metric for the company. We want to drive the absolute level of our product revenues quarter-on-quarter, year-on-year as we build this transformation into a product company, okay? Another thing to note about 2025, I said this in my annual report in Q4. We entered 2025 with a very strong backlog to deliver on our 2025 plans. And we have continued to build our backlog strength, and we are very, very well positioned to go drive outcomes for our 2025. So that's something that, again, I and Lottie, we monitor is how is our backlog shaping up for every subsequent year and how do we then go and execute on it. So again, the shift to products continues to accelerate strongly, and we have good strength going into the rest of 2025 for what we need to execute towards our plan. Remember those orange things, the orange markets I had highlighted a couple of slides ago. We call these Sivers outposts. So while our focus markets or our momentum markets are AI data centers and SATCOM, does not mean we completely ignore everything else, but we are highly selective in a couple of other markets where the potential to do something big or make something big happen exists, but we are not going too broad and diluting our efforts. We are focused on very few engagements. You can count them on one hand. And they are with market-leading customers who believe in the types of solutions they want to put out in those spaces that rely on Sivers' technology, okay? Now when these things hit and they deploy, of course, we're going to bring that news to the investors, but these are what I call outpost engagements, where they're very highly selective. So with that, I want to now hand over to Lottie, who will give us a lot more depth into our financial performance and the financial future. And then I'll come back to talk about markets, technology and customers. So Lottie, please come on over.

Thank you, Vickram. As CFO, I'm very pleased to be here today and provide an update on our progress in pursuing the growth opportunity that Sivers have. And I want to start with the more recent progress in 2025 and then look at the trajectory over time. So we started 2025 strong. We delivered yet another quarter with record sales. Revenue growth was 40% to -- we reached SEK 78.5 million, and we are delivering in accordance with the new baseline of quarterly sales that we set out in Q4. And we continue to focus on improving EBITDA. And although slightly negative, SEK 2.6 million, we're close to breakeven, and it's a 65% improvement year-over-year. We do have a strong momentum in our wireless business unit, where sales increased 85% to SEK 58 million. Growth largely came from NRE projects, including the U.S. CHIPS Act. Wireless product sales reached SEK 14 million, which is the second highest quarter to date. Photonics sales reached SEK 20 million, which was a decline of 18%. And Photonics NRE projects decreased in the quarter, and this was largely due to that the baseline for comparison in 2024 was the highest NRE sales quarter ever in Photonics' history. Product sales in Photonics, on the other hand, reached highest to-date quarter in first quarter 2025 and reached SEK 10.7 million. And for both business units, we had a sequential growth from Q4 to Q1. Following a strong product sales in Q4, we continue to deliver on a high level. Product sales was close to SEK 25 million, which was the second highest to date. And we delivered substantial growth of 41% as we continue to advance our transformation towards a product business. And both business units contributed to the growth, Photonics with SEK 5 million and wireless with SEK 2 million. And we're really pleased with this development of increasing product sales as it's demonstrating a focus towards a product-driven revenue model. And as Vickram mentioned, in the longer term, we're looking at an 80% share of product sales. We will see layering in product ramps, for future growth where wireless is preparing for sampling of broad market SATCOM chips during this year. And again, as Vickram said in his presentation, Photonics ramp-up will come somewhat later. Total product sale in the quarter was 31%, which is in line with fourth quarter. And driven by the increase in NRE projects within wireless, wireless as a share of total sales increased to 74%. And it also drove the increase in our presence in North America, which is now 64%. So to summarize Q1, we started the year strong. We grew 40% year-over-year, and this marks the highest quarterly revenue in the company's history, reflecting strong demand in SATCOM and AI data centers. Wireless grew 85%, and we grew 41% in product sales. EBITDA improvement, 65%. Our cash flow was SEK 56.1 million and operational cash flow minus SEK 22.9 million. And during the quarter, we did strengthen the company's financing through an equity raise. And this will, of course, support our continued successful growth. And we are pleased with the progress we make, and we are trending in line with our plans. And I can say we had a leadership meeting last week and the team across Sivers' regions and units are really focused and eager to take the company to the next level on our growth journey. Taking the longer perspective on our performance. Our Photonics business have a stable revenue while getting in position for ramping up production. We do have an opportunity for margin expansion and increased leverage of fixed costs. And during the quarter, Photonics has partnered with WIN Semiconductor to enhance production capacity. This is an important milestone that has been reached to secure a flexible business model with an asset-light production. Pivoting focus to SATCOM in the wireless business, plus selective engagement in other markets allows strong growth and improved EBITDA. We have delivered a sharp improvement in EBITDA margin in wireless, reaching positive EBITDA for 2024 and for Q1 2025. And in wireless, we're preparing operations for efficient scale up. And since we met last time at the Capital Markets Day, we have implemented an ERP system across both Sweden and U.S. to allow the company to work across regions in a more efficient way. We are strengthening management processes, both in general in operations, but also in terms of commercial terms in our contract engagements. And we are working on improving wireless working capital. So we're certain we are on the right path to higher margins as volumes pick up and customers move to mass production. The key financial theme continues to be capital-efficient profitable growth. This includes focused development in target strategic verticals, meaning AI data centers and SATCOM. And our development is done in conjunction with our customers' priorities and shortest time to commercial ramp-up. And as we said, capitalized R&D includes the development of a broad market chip for SATCOM within wireless. And in general, we can say that capitalized R&D is about 10% to 15% of sales. Another cornerstone in our capital-efficient profitable growth strategy is the asset-light manufacturing. And as we mentioned in Q1, Photonics have partnered with WIN Semiconductor and wireless already from before worked with GlobalFoundries. So we have now fabless production in both business units. And this is, again, an important cornerstone for scalable growth. Sivers has been on a transformational journey the past few years. In 2022, we had strategic restructurings and pursuing growth opportunities, including the acquisition of MixComm that was done in Q1 2022. This also allowed us to expand our footprint into the organizational footprint into the U.S. market. And 2023 was a record-breaking year. We had 78% growth, and we improved operations in the company as a whole. 2024 continued to have sales on a strong level, and we made strategic advancements. We focused further on AI acceleration and millimeter wave adoption. And we signed some major contracts and further improving operational efficiency. And as we said before, 2025 has started out strong. So over the years, we have demonstrated our ability to turn increased sales to profit by improving operational efficiency. And we have strengthened our financials to support growth. As I mentioned, we completed an equity raise in Q1 of SEK 108 million. Additionally, we added Boardman Bay as a U.S. investor, a deep tech investor that is here for the long term and take a long-term perspective of Sivers as we do. And in Q2, we also refinanced our debt successfully to better terms than we had before. We continue to improve our financial KPIs. And all the 2024, to some extent, was a year of consolidation and preparing for next step. Again, '25 has started really strong. And we have talked about a strong order backlog that will support us for the next couple of years, our strategic focus in growth markets and our operational goals to improve efficiency and expand margins. And when it comes to cash flow, we're also focusing on reducing working capital. And this is negotiating better terms in our customer contracts, both new and existing, and introducing more frequent milestones for billing. And we want to better balance the customer payments and supplier payments in general. An example of this is the recent contracts that we have signed with material upfront payments. So to summarize, over the past few years, Sivers has demonstrated a strong trajectory towards growth and operational efficiency. We've had a CAGR of 40% for the past 3 years, and we had 40% growth in Q1. We have a successful shift towards product-driven business model. And this consistent improvement in margins that we chase reflects a successful execution of business model transformation. And in fact, EBITDA was positive second half of 2023 and second half of 2024, and we were close to breakeven in Q1 2025. So that with our financial strategy, improving capital efficiency by focused R&D and fabless production, and strengthening our financial position with the equity raised and refinancing of our debt. We are well positioned for further capital-efficient profitable growth. Thank you.

Thanks, Lottie. Tim, we have you on tap. So Tim Savageaux is a senior research analyst from Northland Capital Markets, who initiated coverage on us recently. And we have invited Tim to provide a markets perspective, and Tim covers both photonics, AI as well as wireless SATCOM. So let's hand this over to Tim. Tim, welcome.

Thanks a lot, Vickram. I appreciate it. And good morning, everybody. The sun is actually just starting to come up here in California. And I want to talk a little bit about my background in Northland. And then why I thought Sivers in particular, was a really nice addition to our coverage universe, where we initiated coverage in late March of this year. And as Vickram said, given the considerable overlap on both the optical side and the wireless and SATCOM side of my current coverage universe. Just a little bit about Northland. I'm in California, but Northland is based in Minneapolis. And we've been around for going on 20 years. We've got about a little over a dozen research analysts working across principally technology, but also elements of consumer, financial technologies, what have you. But a real heavy focus on tech and a considerable investment banking effort as well. We were actually bought by First National Bank of Omaha a couple of years ago, a large private bank with about $30 billion in assets. So some good financial stability there. And I've been with Northland for nearly 10 years based both in San Francisco and down in Southern California, where I am now. And that's part of a 25-year-plus career focused on elements of the communications technology, photonics and optical markets that stretches back -- way back to the mid- to late '90s in San Francisco with firms like Robertson Stephens and in New York with JPMorgan prior to that. And as I mentioned, in recently picking up coverage, and hopefully, I'll demonstrate here over the next few minutes, I did feel like Sivers was a very natural addition to our coverage universe. And can I get the next slide, please? Great. And so this has been more recently kind of a 2-year journey in terms of investor focus on optical connectivity in the data centers driven by AI infrastructure deployments. And so we cover a lot of territory when we focused on that, right, and Vickram mentioned NVIDIA. But in sort of the optical neck of the woods, it was really Marvell, who actually bought a company I covered for years called Inphi. And then really 2 years ago, almost today, actually, they reported results and really got the investors interested in what was happening in AI land, kind of quantified their AI revenue, talk about it expecting to double this year, then double again. And that number started at $200 million annual run rate. I think it's over $1.5 billion now and expected to continue doubling. And those are mostly chips going into a 800 gig and above optical modules and also some plugables to interconnect data centers, again, coming more from the Inphi side that's really driven that growth. More recently, they've had a lot of growth in compute accelerators, which is less direct overlap. But that's really kind of where it all started. As you can see, other aspects of my group, the Lumentums, Coherents, Fabrinets and Cienas of the world started to move up that very day. I've got a picture here of our report from early June kind of heralding that initial focus on AI optical. And next slide, please. And so what's happened in the meantime is what we estimate to be $30 billion in equity value creation driven by this AI optical opportunity initially inside the data center and then more recently moving outside the data center and even starting to positively impact the traditional service provider market as they add bandwidth to deal with all this. So here, we have a range of my coverage companies, and what we've seen, I also include kind of a negative factor because while this has happened certainly over the last 18 months, and this has improved recently, you've had a lot of pressure on the traditional telecom side of the house. So if anything, service provider was a headwind and the strength seen in these stocks over that time period was despite that. So I try to factor that in with some kind of add-on, if you will, to the AI upside and come up with that $30 billion. And that's a pretty healthy multiple on incremental revenue. Depending on where you look, some of the more directly exposed IC companies focused on AI optical are trading well into double digits from a revenue multiple perspective. This is my attempt to look at the incremental AI revenue. and where that's getting valued, and it's all quite healthy. As we'll see later, names that I consider very comparable here, though much larger, like MACOM are trading up around 10x revenue. Now what's been the case is the real focus of all this value creation has been on plugable modules and the components that go inside them by and large as well as some of the modules that interconnect data centers across distance, although we think that's starting to change. Next slide, please. And the catalyst for that change, which has been the case for a couple of years running now, right? So I think 2 years ago, NVIDIA's CEO is talking about how much he likes copper, much of this grand of a lot of my companies and investors. Last year, it was -- this year, sorry, it was co-packaged optics and really onboard optics in the switch. And I think you saw this at the OFC show as well, where we're starting to see a shift in investor focus towards silicon photonics and what's happening with some high-profile start-ups and onboard optics like IRLabs, which is part of the Sivers growth story as well. And so I think that continues to change as we continue to wrestle with what the implications for plugable optics are, some of what's going on right now. I'm sure we'll be talking a lot about that tomorrow. Actually, Coherent's holding an Analyst Day in New York, which is one of the larger plugable transceiver suppliers in the world. And so I think these subjects will be continued to be focused on. My own view is there's some real opportunities emerging that should look kind of familiar based on what I've seen in the past in the silicon photonics and optical I/O arena for light sources in particular, that look pretty interesting. Next slide, please. And so when I say we may have seen this before, in some degree, it looks a little bit like the type of -- and these were for VCSEL arrays unit volumes we saw with the introduction of Face ID on Apple iPhones going back almost 10 years now. And there's a couple of interesting things about this, right? Because thematically, we're talking about what are typically historically pretty limited unit volumes. For telecom lasers, in particular, high-speed long distance, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of units, not tens or hundreds of millions. And that's certainly what we saw in 3D sensing. Same thing for VCSELs, which are typically used in short-reach datacom applications, both pre-AI and with AI. And as I note here, Lumentum generated $2 billion in revenue, high-margin revenue from this opportunity in this 5-year period after the rollout of face ID. Interestingly, the stock market pretty much discounted this all in advance, right? So as the stock marketers want to do. So from mid-2016, when I think people started to become aware that something was happening here, up until the launch of the first iPhone with face ID, we saw $25 billion in equity market value generated over that time period. And that's, like I say, proper sort of discounting mechanism. But also, I think, speaks to the type of opportunity for laser arrays that we could be looking at as some of these optical IO opportunities start to really ramp up and roll out in the '27 time frame. But again, expect that to be reflected in stocks prior to that, or at least that's what we expect, and that's why we decided to get involved with Sivers when we get our -- or at least part of the reason. Next slide, please. And also, interestingly enough, I just initiated coverage in Israeli SATCOM IC company called SatixFy late in '24. And so looking at the Sivers' portfolio was really kind of, like I say, a perfect fit on both sides of the house. Well, subsequent to that, and that was, I think, below $1 for SatixFy where we picked that up. And their largest customer, MDA Space based in Canada, bought the company just recently here for $270 million. I mentioned about 5, 6x our '26 revenue estimate at the time. I think that's a solid data point for value creation in the space as well as MACOM, which is kind of a coverage company of mine for a long time, have been talking a lot more about SATCOM growth, including a pretty big contract for LEO Broadband. And of course, MACOM also shares IRLabs as a light source customer. And again, despite the much larger size, I think that will end up being a pretty solid comparable in terms of looking at how Sivers evolves over time. And with that, I don't know whether we're heading into a break or where I'm handing it, but certainly my pleasure to be here this morning. And thanks, Vickram and the team for inviting me.

Thanks a lot, Tim. Thanks for providing us an outside-in perspective. I hope that was useful for the audience, both here and online. And right now, I believe we get into a break. Is that right? Yes. So we'll have a 10-minute break, stretch your legs, get some coffee, whatever. And then we'll go into my section on markets, technology and customers. Thank you. There will be a couple of interesting videos playing. So I'm sure we all will learn something from it. [Break] [Presentation]

All right. Welcome back. I hope you had a quick break. You talked a little bit out here and online, you got your bio breaks, et cetera. So now we're back. And now I want to start talking about markets, technology and customers. I'm trying to keep it at the level where a vast majority of the audience can get the key messages. So that's the intent as we step through the next set of slides. So just to recap, we're going after 2 long-term secular trends, and there are 2 momentum markets, AI data centers and SATCOM. So let's dig into each of these markets. So why AI data centers? So what you see here is the top hyperscalers, Microsoft, Meta, Google, Amazon, have all committed to significantly increasing their CapEx for AI data centers in 2025 compared to 2024. These are billions of dollars you see here. So they spent $225 billion last year, and they're going to be spending $315 billion in 2025. And what are they seeing? What they are seeing is this tremendous explosion of AI learning models. The use cases are starting to get articulated. And so they want to be ahead of the curve and get ready. So they see this tsunami coming. In addition to these hyperscalers, there are also nation states that want to have their own AI giga factories. I'm sure many of you have read about Europe wanting to catch up to the AI race. They want the European AI giga factories as well. And there are many other nations that also from a security perspective, want to have their own AI data center footprint. So this thing is steam rolling and gathering momentum as we go, okay? That's number one. So it's a fantastic market with tailwinds from deep pockets. So this is not companies that don't have the money to spend to build this infrastructure. This is real money going into this market that offers a tremendous tailwind. As they do this, now what I show you is a picture of a data center. And if you actually look closely, this is the backside of the racks and you see a mangle of wires. There's a lot of wires in there if you kind of look through. So what's happening is as these hyperscalers are starting to put down more and more of these data centers, there is still a heavy mix of copper and optical inside these data centers. And actually, there's a lot more copper inside the racks. And when the racks have to talk to each other, they have to go up to the switches and talk through optical. So a little graphic on the left pops up. At the very bottom are those solar racks that you see in the picture. And they all each have computing chips that are doing a lot of computing, but they really can't talk to each other across racks. So if you need to kind of rely on connecting them, you got to go up to the top of the rack switches and those switches are all talking using optical between them. So the optical fabric is limited to the switches, whether they are top of the rack switches or aggregation switches. And everything today inside the server racks is mostly copper. And so all these hyperscalers and chipset makers have come to the realization that, that's not good enough to where they want to go. They want to enable these server racks to talk to each other faster while dissipating less power. So they want more optical interconnects because light doesn't heat up like copper does. Copper, when you run electrons through copper, copper heats up and electrons can't travel as fast as light. So to make these massive architectures work, we need more interconnections between racks that move towards optical. And if you do that, 2 things happen. Number one, it's 20x faster learning. So all these models can run faster because you're effectively using all the compute resources inside a data center better than the old architecture. And number two, because it's optical and not copper, it's 10x lower energy per bit that's transferred. So you got a power savings benefit and you got a faster learning benefit. These are big ticket items for the hyperscalers, okay? So as those hyperscalers want more and more optical interconnects and so do the NVIDIAs and the AMDs of the world because they're producing these really fast compute chipsets. And for 60% to 70% of the time, these chipsets are sitting idle because the interconnects are not fast enough, they're also demanding optical interconnects, which is resulting in photonics vendors like we heard from Tim, the IRLabs of the world who are an existing partner customer of ours and others who are their peers like Celestial and Lightmatter, they are all investing in photonics chipsets that convert electrical signals from these computing chipsets into optical so that across the data center, most of the transmissions become optical instead of electrical. But to do that, they need a light source. They need a laser, okay? And that's where Sivers Semiconductors comes in. We are not alone here. We have other competition like Lumentum and MACOM, but we have strong technical advantages we'll talk about on what we are leading with our technology advantage. So again, to sum up, billions and billions of dollars on the next-generation AI data centers, everybody needs more optical interconnects. And to do that, we need the likes of photonics vendors working in conjunction with laser vendors to make this happen, right? And this is going to happen to connect all these compute resources that are on the server racks, but also in top of the rack switches where the architecture of the plugable optics is also going to change. So all this boiled down for investors, what does that mean? No matter how much photonics and optics come to the play, the lasers are going to stay external, and we supply lasers. Even the plugables, the way they'll adapt their architecture will result in just more laser and light sources inside a data center. That means the TAM increases, which is a good thing for us because we are in the business of supplying lasers and laser arrays. Even at a very reasonable attach rate or a conversion rate of copper to optical, this is easily a $1 billion market by 2028 plus for laser arrays, okay? And that's our target. Now there are 2 terminologies you should keep in mind, scale up and scale out. Scale up is very simple, connecting all the compute chipsets to each other directly, many to many. A GPU in rack talks to a GPU 4 racks across. That is called scale up. So you're enabling any GPU to talk to any other GPU inside a data center. Scale-out is the switches have the plugable optics and there, they're trying to suck in the optics into the switches and leaving outside only the light sources. So that's called scale out. Both these things are going to happen in AI data centers, scale up and scale out. I'll give you a couple of examples. This is becoming very real. At the OFC show in San Francisco in 2025, IRLabs unveiled their first solution for scale up, up to 8 terabits per second, and that's using Sivers' technology and IRLabs technology to show that GPUs can connect to each other directly and not have to wait to communicate through the switch matrix. That's a huge bottleneck reliever, number one. Number two, NVIDIA has a big show every year. They call it their GTC show. And their CEO, Jensen, basically came and said, "Hey, listen, if you need me to build the AI giga factories of the future, I need to suck in optics into my switches, and I call it co-packaged optics. So the market has to go there". Which means I'm going to suck in optics into the switches and I need external laser light sources. And that's him wanting to enable scale out. So both scale up and scale out, very meaningful benchmarks of progress have happened early 2025. And as this vision plays out, the way investors have to look at a company like Sivers is when you look at racks inside AI data center, the server racks, there are going to be dedicated racks. I show you an example here that's just full of laser light sources. They call them laser array trays. So you're going to start seeing more and more laser array trays inside the servers, and each tray will house a huge number of light sources. And if you look inside, that's the potential for Sivers laser arrays to be on those laser trays. And so once this becomes standard form factor, we are talking about the volumes that Tim was talking about. And that's the opportunity here with the Sivers laser arrays. So all that's great, but why Sivers lasers? I showed Lumentum, MACOM, I mean, why should people not just use them, right? And that's where each company has its advantages and the way it approaches the market. With Sivers, it's the performance #1, which is we have the highest precision, densest wavelength of laser grids we can provide in our arrays. And that's very important for these architectures. We can make these arrays in different sizes, 8-element arrays, 16-element arrays, 32-element arrays. And depending on the customer, they want the power output from these lasers at different levels, too. So our technology roadmap shows the highest precision, the largest array formats and multiple power levels. So that's our technology leadership that we are continuing to maintain. The second biggest thing is what I call light source economics. If you remember, what Tim said is, as these scale-up and scale-out architectures happen, most of the co-packaged optics gets sucked into the GPU or the switch, leaving only the laser sources, but in much higher volumes. If you look at these light sources, one of the biggest costs is manually aligning every laser into the light source to make sure very little light gets lost by the time it comes out the other end into the fiber optic cable. So let's say you have an 8-element array. Today, with my competition, you have to put down one laser at a time. You got to make sure it couples carefully into the fiber optic cable at the other end, and you have to do that 8x. If you have a 16-element array, you got to do that 16x, 32, 32x. The assembly economics becomes ridiculous if you don't change the way you build the lasers. But if you do them as arrays, one piece of semiconductor, which already has all the 8 elements or 16 or 32, now you can only align the last elements on both sides. Everything in between is auto aligned. It's a huge assembly economic saving. So we completely disrupt the light source economics. And that's a huge selling point in addition to the technology advantage. Now one of the things with a smaller company like Sivers with our customers and their customers is, will you be there when I need millions of units from you? And we have addressed that. Production at scale, as Lottie mentioned before, we have our WIN Semiconductor's partnership. We also have our O-NET partnership, and O-Net is in the business of building those light modules. So directly from the lion's mouth, we know that by producing laser arrays, we completely change their economics of building the light sources. So we have reliable production at scale partners to complement our performance advantage as well as the light source economics, okay? And that's the exciting part as our teams continue to execute on that. And you'll hear from the IRLabs' CEO later in one of the videos on how he sees this partnership too. It's been a long journey, and this is the thing that you got to realize is it takes a journey. '22, '23 was technology development. '24, we showed the product application fit. '25, '26, the focus is on getting the product qualified and manufacturing ready and everybody is asking for readiness going into '27 on for volume production. Now is it exactly '27? Does it move around? You can never exactly say the time, but everybody wants to be ready by this time frame. So that's where the focus in the business is. So that's about the AI data center market. Hopefully, it clarifies what's happening in the markets and how we have the right technology to intersect this opportunity. If you then move to the other momentum market, which is SATCOM, again, it's got tremendous market momentum, deep pockets from customers like SpaceX and Amazon and others, this is real money again going into modernizing space, okay? So again, that's a huge tailwind for the market. If you've been following the SATCOM industry, more and more what they call small satellites are going up in the sky. So in the past, it used to be these huge but very few satellites called geostationary satellites. And now the world is all mostly LEO satellites, low earth orbit satellites. So that unit volumes are going up. But there's no point in putting satellites up in the sky if they're not going to talk too many things on the ground, in the air, in water, right, on water. So terminals is a huge growing market. And our focus is on defense terminals and commercial and enterprise terminals where there is the ability to demand value-based pricing and get better margins. And that's also where innovation comes very strongly as well. So that's our current focus. The other thing to know about LEO satellites and these terminals, they're all starting to get smaller and lighter. Once again, this is the drive for millimeter wave technology because as you go higher in frequency, as I told everybody, in RF land, things get smaller and lighter as long as you can deliver the performance they need, okay? So what are the key drivers? Even 5, 10 years ago, satellite services are mainly for video on-demand. You had TV broadcast coming into the house through satellites. But now it's all about ubiquitous broadband. Everybody wants broadband coverage everywhere. Even cellular networks are seeing the amount of money that's going into satellite networks that they want to use satellite networks even to enhance cellular coverage, okay? So 2 big elements. One is ubiquitous broadband and the other is cellular leverage. Also, if you've seen some of these older terminals, they used to be these big DISH-type terminals that were mechanically steered to catch a satellite. The whole market is moving to electronically steered flat panel arrays. And that's where beamforming technology becomes relevant because in the electronic domain, you can move the beam rather than in the mechanical domain. That means lighter weight solutions, more efficient solutions. The U.S. defense has basically said the space infrastructure for U.S. defense is outdated, and they have to modernize space. And we're talking about tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars going into modernizing U.S. space. And you can see now in Europe, the same thing is happening with IRIS2. There is an acknowledgment that space has to be modernized in Europe, too. So again, there's a huge tailwind here to modernize space. And now in the past, the defense agencies were happy with 8-, 10-year long projects, lots of money spent and then you get technology. They're seeing that things are happening on the commercial side much faster. So the defense teams also want faster solutions. So now the time to market, time to ramps are accelerating on the defense side of the business, too. So again, another tailwind to the momentum in SATCOM, okay? And that, by itself, just the SATCOM piece with what Sivers can address today can easily be a $0.5 billion market or more by '28, '29. So let's now talk about momentum builders for Sivers here before we talk about why Sivers. Pretty soon in the sky, there are going to be low earth orbit satellites, middle earth orbit satellites, geostationary satellites. And there are going to be terminals all around. And if there are satellites up in the sky, customers want to find a way to use all of them and mix and match. So the market wants multi-orbit, which means a terminal on the ground can talk to a low earth orbit satellite if needed or if it can't find it, it should latch on to a middle earth satellite or a geostationary satellite, right? So it's multi-orbit. Then they want multi-band. There are many frequencies in millimeter wave that have been historically used, Ka-band, Ku-band, et cetera. They want solutions that can use any band because, again, if I want a link and that satellite can only take a Ku-band and my terminal doesn't have Ku, now I'm kind of stuck. So they want solutions that are multi-band as well. And the other thing is they want multi-beam, which is if I am connected to this satellite and I'm going to lose it, I need to connect to this satellite. They want me to make this connection before they break this connection. So they want multi-beam capability. So this is becoming the norm now, multi-orbit, multi-band, multi-beam. And that plays very well into our roadmap because we have multi-beam, multi-band and the capability to address multi-orbit solutions. You'll hear more from our top customer in space, all space. They are making very strong deployment progress. They're already in mass production with us, but they are winning a lot of programs with the U.S. Navy and the Army and their pipeline is accelerating. So that's tremendous tailwinds for our revenue builds in the coming years as well as they win more programs. So that's again a momentum builder for us. The third one is probably super key, which is there is a consortium called DIFI that's come up, which says, "Hey, look, in the olden days, we used to make these terminals on the ground or on ships, et cetera, that had all the antennas, RF, digital, everything in one box. But now that we have cloud resources, let's move all the processing into the cloud and make the terminals mostly about antennas and RF and then take the signal digitally and go into the cloud." So what that means is the terminal has now basically become a high-performance RF terminal, which has the antenna arrays and the RF and the digitizer. Now Sivers has an opportunity to dominate this box because we have all 3 technologies. We have the ability to do antenna arrays, which we already announced some products at MWC. We do our RF beamformers. And with our customer, Intelsat, now we are doing digitizers. So this is value migration in the terminals for Sivers with the technologies we can bring to these RF-heavy terminals now, okay? Everybody is aware of the geopolitics here where U.S. wants its own self-sufficiency in space infrastructure, the same thing Europe wants, right? So again, these are all things that are pushing more activities in SATCOM. So what does this mean for Sivers? As I mentioned, because the terminals are becoming RF-centric and the need for multi-orbit, multi-beam, multi-band electronically steered arrays, our RF beamformer value proposition grows stronger every day. In addition to that, now we can expand our serviceable market because we do arrays, antenna arrays. We do beam formers. We also do digitizers. We can be one of the highest electronic content inside a ground terminal. And that's something that we are seeing because our opportunity pipeline and the customer interest is also expanding strongly ever since we made the Intelsat announcement as well. So why Sivers Wireless? It's the RF performance and expertise we have. Our RF beamformers are 3 to 5x more energy efficient than anybody else out there. Think of these mobile units. They don't have infinite battery packs. Think of these small satellites up in the sky. They can only carry so much load and they have only so much battery capacity. So if I can make my beamformers more efficient, those satellites can stay functional longer. The ground terminals don't run out of battery too fast. So it's an important value proposition for us. Additionally, all those capabilities we want, multi-band, multi-beam, multi-orbit, we have and are delivering on our road map. And now that the terminal has become an RF-centric design, most customers are telling us, why don't you also build the antenna arrays along with the RF beamformers. You have the capability. Many of our competition don't have that capability to build the antenna arrays as well, okay? So as you can see, that is the RF performance side. With our partnership with Intelsat, now we bring digitizers. So we've added digital capabilities. And just like the photonics laser side, on this side, we have GlobalFoundries as our foundry partner for production at scale that's reliable. So on both sides of our business, now we have a very successful model, which is high technology value proposition with strong production partners. That's hitting the value proposition for our markets, okay? So again, we talked about this. So both these GlobalFoundries win are top of their game. W Semiconductor is one of the world's largest gallium arsenide foundries. They supply the Apples, the Broadcoms, the Qualcomms of the world. And then you got GlobalFoundries that supplies to pretty much all the blue-chip customers as well. And as I mentioned before, we have a partnership with O-Net Technologies, who help us take our laser arrays and help them make very economical at scale light sources. If you remember, we said the assembly costs were the highest for light sources. The other thing to note about the supply chain is GlobalFoundries or WIN, they have the deep pockets to address any need for local EU production. If geopolitics then dictate the need for local foundries in different geographies, GlobalFoundries already has production sites in Dresden. And WIN Semiconductor is similar to TSMC, et cetera, they all have plans to leverage sites in Europe if geopolitics takes us there. So we have sound partners who have plans to address geopolitics as well as it needs to be, if it comes through. The last thing I will say is also important because we have existing investors on the call, we have potential new investors. A big change that we have brought to mindset is pipeline discipline, customer pipeline discipline, opportunity pipeline discipline now. We are at a place where our technology is sufficiently mature. Our road map value proposition is sticking with our customers. We want to be careful in the types of customers we take on. We want to take on customers who have market leadership or technology leadership, who have the funding to take us through from development to production. We no longer need to be chasing customers just because we can get development engineering money, but we don't know where they'll go in the future for production. We can be a lot more disciplined, and that's what we need at this stage in our company, right? Because we have only finite resources, we want to make sure the customers we pick are the ones that will lead us to production. So we're putting a lot more scrutiny on the types of customers and opportunities we take. I was at these 3 conferences that you see at the top. Those are our top conferences and trade shows for our markets and our technologies. OFC is an optical show. This year, it was in San Francisco. You all know Mobile World Congress, MWC, that's held in Barcelona and the SATSHOW, which is the biggest satellite show in Washington, D.C. All these 3 events happened in Q1 of a given year. And I asked my teams, what was different this year than last year. Last year was before I joined the company. And they said, "Hey, once we got ratification that our solutions actually fit the bill, a lot of the bigger customers potentials are coming and seeking us out at this year's show, whereas at last year's show, we had to kind of go hunting for them." So they said there is definitely a change as we brought more technology out to the market that the bigger branded names are starting to seek us out, which I think is a very, very positive move because those are precisely the types of customers now we want to attract beyond our early adopters, okay? So to give you an idea, right now in the prospect stage, which is there's a potential to engage with them. They kind of came to our booths, they talked, Wireless has about 40 targets. Photonics has about 20 targets. And out of those wireless, 30% are strong brand names. Photonics is a more focused market, so like 75% of them are strong brands, okay? If you look at then what has progressed from prospects into technical engagements where we are actually having conversations with these customers, potentials, is there a program? Is there a program where our technology can intersect, et cetera? Wireless has about 30 engagements. Again, about 30% are strong brands. Photonics has 7 engagements, about 70% of them are strong brands, right? And of course, we are building out our major customers, some of which have existed in the past, but some of which we are also bringing into the fold. And many of them are starting to move into either production or prototype before production, right? So that's kind of where we are being very conscious about the customer pipeline we are building rather than being very haphazard about it or desperate about it. And this is an important point I want to leave you guys with before we go into the next section because we're at a place where we want to make sure we are here for the long run as these secular trends play out, which means we're going to make sure we are very meticulous about the customers we take. We're not going to be desperate, but we're going to be methodical. And as we navigate this because with any of these markets, you can exactly determine when something happens. Things can move. But as we prepare for it, we are very fiscally disciplined, financially disciplined. And we are going to tailor our equity and debt financing with long-term strategic partners, long-term fundamental investors, long-term debt financing agents. We want the time horizon for us to show our success to connect and be kind of similar to our investors and our debt financiers as well. That then allows for meaningful conversation as we navigate through moves in the market, as we adapt and we still deliver solutions, okay? So that's something for our investors to hear directly from me that that's kind of how we're going to manage the path forward as we want tie-ups with long-term minded investors, debt financing and our own customers that are going to be around as these things become real. Lottie touched upon this, but I will say that historically, Sivers has mainly been doing custom work for customers, a custom product, a custom development. We've come to a place where we have gathered enough IP and knowledge about what the market wants rather than customer A or customer B. We are looking at customer A, B, C, D, E, F and saying, well, if I build a product like this, A, B, C and D customers will buy it. And I think that's a good business case. So let's make that standard configuration, right? So there is also a mindset shift now to put out more standard product configurations because rather than go one product to one customer, we want to see if a product can actually appeal to multiple customers. It gives us customer diversity. It gives us aggregated volumes and makes for better business cases. So that's also a big change in our go-to-market mentality. And as Lottie mentioned, this year, we will be putting out our broad market SATCOM chipset samples late Q3 from the Wireless team. And that is something that when I showed you that pipeline, a lot of our prospects and technical engagements are looking for. They're like, can I get my hands on your broad market SATCOM chips? And now we are also starting to figure that out on the photonics side beyond our lead engagements, what are standard configurations we can offer the market as scale up and scale out happens and they all need these laser arrays and light sources. With that, that's the conclusion of my section on markets, technology and customers. Hopefully, we've taken you one level deeper and -- but I've hopefully kept it simple enough that it resonates. But again, I'm here and the team is here for questions later. So we have a video to play now. It's after Harish, right? So I'm going to now move this to Harish. Harish is on the screen. So Harish is going to take us deeper into the business and technology of our wireless side of the company. So Harish, please go ahead.

Thank you, Vickram, and good afternoon to everybody. Thank you for tuning in to our Capital Markets Day. I'm happy to talk about the progress that is being made within the wireless business unit. My name is Harish Krishnaswamy, and I'm Managing Director of Wireless within Sivers. If we go to the next slide. So as Vickram mentioned, the primary target market for wireless is satellite communications. And we are finding that the satellite communications market is growing extremely rapidly because of several tailwinds. The first and foremost tailwind is the need for connectivity everywhere. And this chart is showing several of the applications that satellite communications is addressing today. Of course, we have the consumer Internet application that you see on the top left. But in addition to that, we see several other scenarios that are demanding high levels of connectivity today. And these include the aviation market. So this is the ability to access Internet while on flights, whether they are commercial or otherwise. We see the maritime market, which is the ability to access Internet on cruise ships and the like. There are also applications, of course, in the military, particularly in remote locations of the battlefield where the war fighter needs to be able to access Internet in an ad hoc fashion. As Vickram mentioned, we also see that the terrestrial telecom industry is embracing satellite communications, for instance, as a means of backhaul to basically communicate the data from the base station back to the data center without having to install expensive optical backhaul infrastructure. And then, of course, you have SATCOM on-the-move applications where we have moving vehicles, whether commercial or military being able to access satellite networks in highly mobile scenarios. The key thing is that many of these applications are actually uniquely addressable only through satellite networks as opposed to the traditional terrestrial networks. And so that's the first big tailwind. Secondly, as Vickram mentioned, geopolitical forces across the world are causing every country, every region to invest in local domestic satellite communication networks and capability as that is seen as very important for strategic national security. And then finally, the third tailwind is the lowering of the barrier to launch satellites. So what was once the domain of, for instance, NASA and other large federal organizations has now become a capability that big and small private companies are also able to access. And so more and more satellites are going up, enabling an increased number of satellite communication networks. If you go to the next slide. The second market that we are addressing is 5G millimeter wave. This market has, of course, historically been slow to develop, but now we see 5G millimeter wave deployments around the corner starting in 2026 and really fixed wireless access has emerged as the killer application for 5G millimeter wave. So this is essentially using wireless to bring the Internet inside the home over the so-called last mile as an alternative to the more traditional copper or optical Internet access. And this is really being driven by greenfield markets such as India and other developing nations where that incumbent infrastructure of copper is lacking and hence, fixed wireless access is providing a much lower cost, lower CapEx means of bringing Internet into the home. If you go to the next slide. So when we look at these markets that we are addressing, these are very large markets. They are actually a $1 billion addressable market for Sivers based on our technology today by 2030. Taking a look at satellite communications, this is a very diverse market. It has many global as well as regional players. And that totals to around $400 million of addressable market if we look at electronically steered antennas that utilize beamformers in the frequency ranges that our technology can address. And we have several key design wins here that will drive our ability to participate in this market over the next several years. Of course, we've talked about ALL.SPACE, and we'll have some more information about ALL.SPACE further down this presentation. But we also have design wins with Thorium Space, and a leading European SATCOM network provider as well as several other very important customers in the pipeline, and we'll talk about that as well further downstream in this presentation. Within 5G millimeter wave, as I mentioned, fixed wireless access is the key driver here. The key thing about our technology is we already have standard products that address all of the 5G millimeter wave bands as well as all possible configurations of those standard products, whether it's beamformers for large arrays or highly integrated transceivers for user devices such as CPEs for fixed wireless access. And we have some critical design wins with a Tier 1 telecommunications infrastructure provider as well as a leading Japanese infrastructure manufacturer, and these will allow us to very actively participate in a roughly $260 million addressable market by 2030. And then finally, we have some more emerging markets that we are starting to explore. These include defense and FR3, and I'll talk a little bit about each of those. So in the defense market, we find that radar systems as well as electronic warfare systems are increasingly beginning to exploit electronically steered arrays based on commercial beamforming chips so that they can leverage the economies of scale that are driven by the commercial market. And so these applications can either use our existing beamformers or variants of our beamformers at the specific frequencies that defense applications are targeting. And we have some exciting engagements in the pipeline here that will allow us to participate in this market moving forward. On the 5G, 6G side, the FR3 frequency band refers to a range of frequencies that lies between the sub-6 gigahertz frequencies that are used today and the millimeter wave frequencies that are beginning deployment. So that range of frequencies runs from about 7 to 24 gigahertz. And the exciting thing about that range is that it combines the best of both worlds of FR1, which is the sub-6 gigahertz and FR2, namely, it has the coverage characteristics of the sub-6 gigahertz bands while having bandwidth that is competitive with the millimeter wave frequency bands. And what's interesting about both the defense and the FR3 markets is that we have received funding via the CHIPS Act under the Microelectronics Commons Program that allows us to develop standard products for both of these markets in collaboration with some of the key customers that we would eventually sell to, including Ericsson, BAE, Raytheon, et cetera. And so all of these together form a very exciting $1 billion directly serviceable opportunity for Sivers over the next 5 years. If we go to the next slide. However, each of these opportunities have challenges today, which our technology is uniquely able to solve. So this graphic on the left-hand side shows some of the challenges that SATCOM networks face today. And a little later in this presentation, I will talk about how the differentiating features of our products address these challenges directly. So the graphic is showing a terminal that is now trying to communicate with multiple in different orbits, the low, medium and geostationary earth orbits. And different challenges in trying to do this are highlighted on the right-hand side. So the first challenge is that today's satellite networks and operators don't actually communicate with each other. So for instance, an Intelsat satellite cannot communicate with a Viasat satellite, for instance. The second challenge is that ground terminals today cannot simultaneously communicate with multiple satellites, and this creates a challenge for what's called make before break scenarios where as one satellite is leaving the field of you, one needs to establish a link with another satellite before the first connection is actually broken. Satellite terminals are also not able to communicate across different orbits. Obviously, the requirement to communicate with a low earth orbit satellite that's much closer to you is vastly different from the higher performance that's required to communicate with a GEO satellite. And so as a result, we don't see convergence across multiple orbits. The fourth challenge is there's also no convergence today between military and commercial networks. They each run on a different set of standards, a different set of terminals are built for each. And there's also no convergence, as you see in point #5, across the different frequencies. So the 2 dominant frequency bands that are used for these satellite communication networks are Ka-band and Ku-band. The Ku-band is roughly 10 to 15 gigahertz, while Ka-band is 17 to 31 gigahertz. Some of these orbits are in the Ka, some of these orbits are in the Ku and terminals today don't have the ability to operate on both bands simultaneously. And then finally, we don't see convergence today between satellite networks and your terrestrial networks such as 5G. And so all of these things are problems that need to be solved in order to realize this significant growth that we foresee in the SATCOM market. If we go to the next slide. So how we're able to address these challenges is through the broadest millimeter wave IC portfolio that we see amongst our competitors. So on this slide, we are seeing Sivers products grouped across the level of integration on the X-axis and the frequency and application they address on the Y-axis. So on the left-hand side, you see what we call high-performance beamforming-ICs. So these are ICs that basically form the beam across the antenna array. But really, the level of integration is limited to the RF circuitry to form the beam. And the focus is more on performance, so higher output power, better efficiency, lower noise figure. On the bottom, you see the Timber Line family of beamformers, which have been designed for ALL.SPACE. And on the top, you see the SUMMIT family of beamformers that are broad market products that address the 5G market. On the right-hand side, you see our more highly integrated RF IC transceivers. And here, we have more functionality that has been put onto a chip. So in addition to the beamforming, there is also the frequency conversion to baseband, the PLL synthesizer and the power management IC -- power management circuitry. And so here, the focus is less on getting the highest performance possible, but more having a highly integrated chip that can be the single chip solution that is needed for all RF analog functions that might be needed on an end-user device, for instance, a CPE. So on the bottom right, you see the Ebara transceivers. Again, that's custom designed for ALL.SPACE. And on the top, you see the broad market transceivers for the 60 gigahertz and 5G markets, namely [ EDR ] and [ RAPANO ]. These are all the internal code names that we use within Sivers for these chips. If we go to the next slide, the key thing is that these products that we have significantly lead competitive products on the market in terms of performance. And so here, you see a depiction of the Gen 1 beamformers from Sivers, which were released to market about 4 years ago as well as the Gen 2 beamformers that have been released to market recently over the last year or so. And they're shown against the competition on the axis of output power and efficiency. So even at Gen 1, we had a significant performance benefit over competitors, which you see here grouped based on the semiconductor technology that they use. So the gray dot represents competitors that use a bulk CMOS technology. The yellow dot shows customer -- competitors that use a silicon germanium technology. And the green dot shows competitors that use the same RF-SOI, silicon on insulator technology that we at Sivers use. But because we have unique IP and circuit design capability in these beamformers, even the Gen 1 beamformer had a significant performance improvement. But we are continuously working on our product development, coming up with new innovations and bringing them into our products. And as a result, our Gen 2 beamformers have as much as 6 to 12 dB, which is 4 to 10x higher output power and 3 to 5x higher energy efficiency than competitive products on the market. And then what this means for our customers, their value proposition is the higher output power enables higher propagation range. It allows the millimeter wave length to be formed over longer distances as well as overcome barriers such as foliage, the human body, et cetera. But the higher energy efficiency means that at the same time, our customers' products will consume less DC power, less energy and also dissipate less heat into the environment. So this leads to a greener deployment footprint as well as a lower cost of ownership for our customers. If you go to the next slide. But our differentiation is not just on these key performance metrics of output power and efficiency. We also offer other differentiating features that address some of the challenges that I talked about earlier. So for instance, our beamformers, while having this superior output power and efficiency are also able to form multiple simultaneous beams. And so this allows terminals that are built with these beamformers to communicate with multiple satellites at the same time and hence, achieve make before break, as I talked about earlier. We're also actively working on multi-band beamformers, so beamformers that can operate in the Ka and the Ku bands simultaneously. And so this allows our customers to build terminals that from a single antenna aperture can operate in the Ka and the Ku-band simultaneously and thus establish links with networks that might be on different frequency bands. And then finally, traditionally, SATCOM terminals have a separate transmit antenna and a separate receive antenna. But we have -- we're working on beamformers that can transmit and receive at the same time from the same beamformer, which would allow our customers to share the antenna or aperture across transmit and receive functions, which again would directly reduce the size as well as the cost of the SATCOM terminals. And so these differentiating features are critical in our ability to win customers, but also our customers' ability to then win their opportunities with their customers. If we go to the next slide. So this broad product portfolio and its differentiating features has helped us to really grow our pipeline. So if you look at the stages on the right of the pipeline, the companies in mass production as well as the design win and design-in customers, these are the familiar customers that we've talked about earlier in the presentation. But what we see is that now we have a very healthy and robust set of customers that we are in deep technical engagement with today that we're attempting to transition into the design-in column. You see as many as 30 customers, many of them in satellite communications. And then behind those, we have several other customers as many as 24 in the qualified opportunity bucket where discussions have begun and are deepening in their technical engagement. And as Vickram mentioned, one of our key focus has been to concentrate on high brand value customers that we feel confident can ramp to mass production in the near future. And so a lot of the names that you see here fall into that category. If you go to the next slide. So a few of the customers that we see here are the design win and mass production customers. And I'd like to talk about the traction that they're particularly seeing. So of course, our lead customer is ALL.SPACE on the left. And they've hit several important milestones recently. So their Gen 1 terminals, which are called Hydra 2 and Hydra 4 are in general availability now and are actively deployed with the U.S. Army and the U.S. Navy. So the background behind that naming is Hydra 2 is able to form 2 simultaneous beams, while Hydra 4 is able to form 4 simultaneous beams. These are in deployment today as is evidenced by the fact that by Q3 of this year, we would have actually shipped 1.3 million beamformers to support ALL.SPACE the terminals that they have shipped. But they also have a very exciting sales pipeline into the U.S. DoD, which will drive larger orders for us later this year from ALL.SPACE, which will allow us to then supply beamformers for that growing pipeline. On the 5G side, we have our Tier 1 telco infrastructure provider. We're actively working with them for them to build their Gen 1 product today, which would use Sivers' broad market 5G beamformers and RFICs. So the Gen 1 product would use the Summit family of beamformers as well as the [ RAPANO ] RFIC, and that product is expected to ramp to volume in 2026. At the same time, we have a $5.4 million NRE contract with them to design a next-generation product in the GlobalFoundries' 22FDX process. which really combines the best of both worlds of our beamformers and RFICs. So that next-gen product achieves the output power efficiency and noise figure, the performance metrics of the beamformers while also having that high level of integration that we see in our RFICs, meaning they include the up-down converter, the synthesizer, the power management, the analog baseband circuitry, et cetera. And then finally, I'd like to talk a little bit about Thorium Space. That's our second in-line customer in SATCOM. The unique thing about our engagement with Thorium Space is that the engagement includes both beamformers for ground terminals as well as for the space payload. So that would mark our first foray into designing chips for space. The first ES1 ICs, engineering sample 1 ICs for both the ground and the space segment are currently in manufacturing today, and we will sample them to the customer in Q4 of this year. Meanwhile, we have seen that Thorium Space has signed numerous strategic partnerships with satellite network operators, which builds confidence in their volume deployment plans a couple of years down the road. So let's now go to a video interview with Paul McCarter, CEO of ALL.SPACE, to talk a little bit about their technology, their initial deployments, their customer traction as well as the value proposition that our technology brings to ALL.SPACE.

Hello. My name is Paul McCarter. I am the CEO of ALL.SPACE. I was asked to do a quick video for you on the background of ALL.SPACE and why we chose Sivers. Now I believe you would have watched the Seraphim video to give you background on satellite communications and why right now phased array technology is pivotal to the expansion in communications going through GEO, NEO, and LEO orbits. So basing on that, just to give you quick background on ALL.SPACE. At about 2 years ago the U.S. DoD ran 2 competitions, one for he U.S. Navy, one of the U.S. Army. And they were find a critical piece of technology that could enable resilience in the satellite communications. They searched the world and in both of those independent technical teams, they chose ALL.SPACE for that capability. And the reason for that is because we currently are the only providers of technology that can do simultaneous duplex, full bandwidth links from a small aperture phased array to satellites in any orbit. Part of that is the fact that we have very, very carefully selected the component providers in our electronic supply chain and Sivers is a critical part of that. Now what that's led us to is the R&D programs are converting to programs of record in the U.S. DoD. The U.S. Navy program has already converted in January of this year to the commercial broadband satellite program of record, and we have delivered 32 units to them already in 2025. They will be expanding that and the numbers for that IDIQ contract will be going up. The U.S. Army has several programs of record, which we are now in a really good position to win and we'll be ordering units office in this coming year. That pipeline that we have right now, since we've demonstrated the capability in November and December of last year is in excess of $200 million worth of opportunities. However, that is nothing in comparison to the programs of record that they require like next-generation command and control, the family of terminals because all of their old gimbal technology that is based on both land and sea needs to be swapped out for new phased array technology. Now that's just talking about the U.S. DoD. As we all know, NATO and Europe will have to upgrade its defensive over the next decade, and there will be a huge amount of investment coming from investment in things like the U.S. DoD for multi-orbit technology capability. So we are in a really good position from a defense market perspective. Now just to add to that, the technology itself isn't defense oriented, it's dual use. And we are in conversations right now with airline operators who wish to take the technology, do investigations and put it on to aircraft so that they can provide the next generation of multimedia delivery whilst people are on flights. So it's a huge opportunity right now as we expand into this GEO, NEO and LEO orbit capability. So we were asked a question why Sivers? Well, just as the U.S. DoD did their sweep of the market, we also did the sweep of the market for who we needed to partner with to provide what is a critical part of our technology. And when we looked at this, we believe Sivers has got a differentiated technology. It's got a higher power capability and that leads to a better efficiency for how we use it with a lower power consumption. All of that adds to less cooling requirement, which is a very important part for the electronics. And when you add it all up into a business case, it means that the lower cost of ownership gives us an advantage for the complete unit as we move forward. So we selected our component suppliers because they give us an advantage. We believe Sivers one of the best in the world at doing what they do, and we work with them to ensure that we can, therefore, deliver our simultaneous multi-orbit capability. So I'd like to say thank you to Vickram and his team. They've always been there for us, and they work tirelessly so that we can all have great trading opportunities and move forward with the best technology. Thank you. I hope you have a great day. Thank you. I hope you have a great day.

So as we look to the future, we also have a very robust product road map that will allow us to build upon these initial successes. So first, I'd like to highlight Cloud Chaser, which is the internal code name for our Ka-band standard product beamformer for satellite communications. This is currently in manufacturing today and will be available and sampling to customers in Q4 of this year. Many of the customers that you saw in the pipeline slide that I showed earlier are eagerly awaiting this standard product beamformer. And so this will allow us to really take the technology and the differentiating IP that we have and expand the number of customers that we can service with that IP and technology. Early next year, you see the production phase of our Summit family of broad market beamformers for 5G. So this is already sampling with customers today. The 5G Tier 1 telco is using it today for product development, but the production release of this beamformer will happen in early next year to support that product ramp of the 5G Tier 1 telco. And there are several other customers behind that customer that are using the chip today and are awaiting the production release. Then you see a couple of our custom chips, Juniper for Thorium Space, the Ku/Ka dual-band chip for ALL.SPACE and [ BiFrost ], which is the internal code name for our next-gen 22FDX 5G transceiver for the Tier 1 telco. Those will be released through late next year and early 2027. And then later in 2027, we anticipate the release of our Ku-band standard product beamformer for satellite communications, thus giving us comprehensive coverage of the SATCOM ecosystem. And of course, I should mention, in parallel, we have more long-term product development ongoing at transceiver for the FR3 frequency band as well as a self-interference counselor for the defense market for electronic warfare systems. These, as I mentioned earlier, are funded under the CHIPS Act and their production release will be later in the time line, but we're already actively engaging with the customers under that CHIPS Act project to ensure that the product that is being designed best fits their needs. If we go to the next slide. One thing that we've realized over the last few years at Sivers is that although our primary focus is in building and selling chips, -- it is very valuable for us to climb up the value chain and offer antenna arrays as both reference design and as full product. So here, we're talking about products where the chip is integrated on a PC board or in a package with the antennas tightly integrated and connected to the chips themselves. And we find that this is valuable for our customers because it accelerates their time to market and reduces their development cost and risk. For us, it allows us to climb up the value chain and capture a greater percentage of the value of the final end product that our customer would sell. So historically, we've done this in the form of evaluation kits, mainly as test vehicles for our ICs as well as small arrays for 5G and 60 gigahertz. So we're talking about arrays that have 16, 32, maybe 64 antennas. But this year, we have taken the plunge to essentially expand these antenna array offerings to large arrays for both 5G as well as satellite communications. So we're talking about arrays with 128, 256 and as many as 512 antennas for 5G millimeter wave and then panels with as many as 2,900 antennas for satellite communications. And we see a lot of excitement in the market, both to access these designs as reference designs so that the customers have a starting point to design their custom module or panel, but also as complete products, which our customers can sort of build a box around. If we go to the next slide. And we've actually innovated and sort of expanded our scope even further with our recent Intelsat engagement marking our entry into digital subsystems. And so here for Intelsat, we are building a product, which is called a DIFI down converter. DIFI stands for digital IF interface. And so what this DIFI frequency converter would do is that it would take the L-band intermediary frequency that comes from the antenna panel. L-band is from roughly 900 megahertz to about 1.5 gigahertz. And so that's the frequency that comes out of the panel. The millimeter wave is converted down to that frequency. And then this DIFI converter will further take the signal from the L-band to digital bits and put it on this DIFI standard interface in an Ethernet protocol. And so what this then allows is that if this DIFI converter is integrated with the SATCOM terminal, it can then have an Ethernet connection to the eventual modem, which allows the modem to be remotely located from the satellite terminal as well as virtualized, meaning you don't need dedicated modem hardware anymore. The modem can essentially be software code running on a server somewhere on a general processor somewhere. So this is an exciting product because it really expands the deployment capability of the SATCOM terminals. Now the SATCOM terminals can be remote from the modem. It marks an entry of Sivers into digital systems. And so it's really created a lot of awareness Sivers once this announcement with Intelsat came out, in particular, at the Mobile World Congress earlier this year in early March. And then at the SATSHOW in D.C. in the middle of March, we had a lot of customers coming to us because of the announcement with Intelsat on this DIFI frequency converter. And so that's really expanded our customer pipeline quite significantly. We're executing this project with NXP as our partner. NXP provides the Layerscape platform, which is the hardware platform on which this DIFI converter is implemented. And to hear a little bit more about not just this project, but of Intelsat view of the SATCOM market and how this DIFI converter can really expand that market and to end this presentation as well, let us now go to a video by Dr. Salim Yaghmour of Intelsat to talk a little bit about our partnership.

The market is experiencing significant growth and transformation driven by advancement in technology, strategic partnership and increasing demand for mobile SATCOM solutions. Some of what's happening in the SATCOM market and the innovation and technology, the fast deployment of large NGSO constellation, including the emergence of the direct-to-device NTN services, deployment of the software-defined satellite fundamentally changed the game, delivering services when and where they are most needed and dynamically steering bandwidth and power as needs change, enabling adaptive use cases for various mobility application utilizing AI to optimize resources and network performance. The evolution of SATCOM ground infrastructure and following the 5G NTN standard to meet the demand of modern, scalable and software-defined networks for supporting flexible multi-orbit multi-network operation, particularly as satellite constellation scale and services become more dynamic. Intelsat is building the future of global communication with the world's first hybrid multi-orbit software-defined 5G networks. And Intelsat has partnered with Sivers to develop the next-generation high-performance digitizer, which is an important enabler for the SATCOM for the Smart Edge mobility terminal to provide our customers with the full flexibility to manage terminal configuration and applications. The architecture shift in ground terminals from hardware-centric architecture with purpose-built specific frequency band to a flexible, scalable ease of integration and cost effective offers the ability for the Sivers Intelsat partnership to provide differentiated solution in the SATCOM market as the new constellation and terminal infrastructure are being rolled out. We are happy to partner with Sivers and looking forward to a successful project in building a unique digitizer solution.

We're doing 10-minute break while we're playing a video IRLabs, stick around. There's 2 more sections coming -- 3 more sections coming. We'll deep dive in the Photonics business, and we'll look at our manufacturing strategy and the Q&A, which should be exciting. See you in 10 minutes. [Break]

All right. That was very quick 10 minutes. Welcome back. The last stretch of this day. Andrew, my dear colleague and CTO, is going to talk us through business and technology.

Okay. Thank you for the introduction, Sander. Good afternoon to everybody in person and also online. It's great to have the opportunity to talk in a bit more detail about the technology that we have within the Photonics business unit here at Sivers. So primarily, I'm going to focus on the opportunity, which is by far the biggest opportunity that we have in photonics of supplying laser devices into the AI infrastructure and data center end market. Next slide, please. Okay. So we've already heard in a lot of detail from Vickram and also from Tim about what's happening within AI infrastructure. So let me just quickly give my perspective about the sort of broader landscape and what's happening here in the developments around AI infrastructure. So obviously, over the last couple of years, we've seen sort of rapid increase in the large language AI model size. We likely will see models in excess of 100,000 GPUs in 2026, which has scaled dramatically over the last 2 years. that is creating sort of serious bottlenecks where interconnect and high-bandwidth memory just really cannot keep up with the sort of computational advances that we've seen from the likes of NVIDIA and AMD. So really, we have a very large sort of mismatch that's been created, causing significant issues in terms of the system network performance and also in the raw energy requirements. So these models really have scaled from millions of parameters into hundreds of billions of parameters recently. ChatGPT-4 as an example, Gemini, xAI, et cetera. And fundamentally, the requires massive data movement between the computation units and the high-bandwidth memory. So there are major issues here. So today, the GPUs, as we've heard a few times today, they're connected fundamentally through copper within the data racks themselves and high-speed electrical links. And there's a number of different protocols that are used here, NVLink, InfiniBand, PCIe, Ethernet, et cetera. But these links really have sort of got finite bandwidth and very much non-zero latency. We've heard about idling of the GPUs, which can significantly degrade the system efficiency. So really, data exchange between the GPUs is a major bottleneck and a major issue, especially as we move to the larger models where there's very high levels of parallelism. So the other issue, of course, is power and the energy per bit for these electrical links is currently very, very high, several tens of picojoule per bit to transfer from one GPU to its neighbor. And again, this very much limits the scalability of these networks. So some of the media coverage that is shown here tries to sort of highlight this and really sort of quantify some of the issues that we face. We have, for example, Sam Altman talking about very, very subtle small inefficiencies within these models costing millions and millions of dollars. So this is why any sort of incremental improvement that we can make to these networks has got a massive cost benefit to the users of these networks. If we also look at some of the other sort of diagrams that we have on this chart, top right, we have the power consumption for all of the AI data centers. It's approaching the sort of energy usage of the U.K. grid. It's an incredible statistic. And that's really driving people taking on some pretty radical approaches to powering these data centers in the forms of sort of small nuclear reactors. It's an incredible thing to consider that people are doing this, but this is a very real activity in the sort of industry today. So where Sivers fit into all this? So fundamentally, our laser technology is focused on improving the GPU interconnect performance, both in terms of performance, but also in terms of efficiency and system latency. Next slide, please. So what we're showing on this chart here is really sort of direct evidence of the sort of industry acceptance that optical interconnectivity is critical for the success of AI. So we have some quotes from NVIDIA. Obviously, the main sort of provider of the infrastructure for these networks. We have one of the users, OpenAI and then also from Lightmatter. Lightmatter are a very disruptive startup in this space, bring us sort of very novel optical connectivity into the sort of data center. So there's very sort of wide acceptance that this adoption of optical interconnectivity is really critical for the expansion of the AI networks in the future. Next slide, please. So if we go on the premise that replacing copper today, the copper interconnects that are in the data racks today with optics, that's quite a broad statement. Optics can mean lots of different things. It can be indium phosphide integrated modulators. It can be silicon photonic Mach-Zehnder modulators. But really, there's a clear lead technology, which is silicon photonics micro resonators, co-packaged with GPUs or ASICs, and they're becoming the very sort of clear lead technology within this industry. There's very much wide acceptance that this is the approach that's going to be the winner as we deploy this sort of optical interconnect technology over the next few years. And that's because of a few sort of key advantages of this technology. The primary one is energy efficiency. So this technology is the only solution that really gets down below the sort of industry target of 5 picojoules per bit. So we mentioned copper. Copper stuck up at around 50 picojoule per bit. Traditional plugable optics, even LPO, which is the sort of linear plugable optics are stuck around 15 picojoule per bit and don't have a road map below 10. So we have a clear sort of solution here to get down to the industry targets. One of the other key benefits and advantages that we have here is the potential for very high channel density through a sort of scalable, highly parallel architecture. What does that mean? Okay? That means basically multiple signals can be sent down each fiber what's traditionally called WDM, providing routes to 16 terabits bandwidth, and I'll explain that in a second as to how that's actually realized. Plugables today, as Tim mentioned a week while ago, are typically shipping at 400G or 800G. They've got a clear road map to 1.6T, maybe 3.2T, but nothing beyond that. So you can see where plugables start to run out of steam and the micro ring resonator approach really has got the opportunity to take it to a completely different dimension. The other big advantage is this stuff is produced in high-volume silicon fabs, okay? So the 2 main companies delivering this technology today are GlobalFoundries and TSMC, who are obviously some of the leading silicon foundries out there today. And they're both sort of working on sort of very, very similar technology. GF may be slightly more advanced today, but TSMC will almost certainly catch them up in the next sort of 18 months. A quick click, please. So let's explain how we get up to 16 terabits of bandwidth with this technology. So we do this by using multiple wavelengths, so 16 wavelengths, if we just do a couple of clicks. You can see 16 wavelengths. Click again, we put those 16 wavelengths down 16 different fibers in a fiber array. And then what we can do is modulate each of those individual 256 carriers at 64 gigabits and that aggregates up to 16 terabits bandwidth signal. So this is described in the industry as sort of highly wide slow approach, but actually it's very, very, very wide and 64 gigabits is not particularly slow. 64 gigabits is what can be done today with CMOS resonator technology, but that has got the potential to go up to 200 gigabits. So this technology is not fundamentally limited to 16 terabits bandwidth. So incredible bandwidth density that the plugables just cannot match in the future. Next slide, please. So what do we do? Where do we fit into this great sort of ecosystem? So we are supplying the laser sources for CEO, as Vickram mentioned earlier. So we currently are the technology leader in this space. We have developed this competitive edge built on sort of 25 years of advanced laser development across a few different markets. including sort of telecoms, PON networks, sensing applications, including consumer biometric diagnostic sensing and also LiDAR sensing. And that's a couple of the outposts that Vickram touched upon earlier. And they could, of course, be very interesting in the future. But really, we've sort of leveraged the technology that we've developed to focus on this great opportunity. So today, we've got significant strength in the chip design IP. We've got patented technology around this array format. And we've built upon sort of very well-established process technology that we have here in-house in our Glasgow facility. So we use traditional ridge waveguide laser architecture. It's simple, proven, reliable technology is used today in other parts of the network. But we have a couple of quite novel approaches that give us the edge across our competition. We have etched facet designs. So this is leading to sort of highly scalable volume manufacturing. We also do on-wafer optical coatings and on-wafer optical testing. This allows us to have sort of industry-leading yields, which can obviously allow us to drive the cost down and margins up. So today, we're doing chip development and prototyping here in our internal Glasgow fab located right underneath where I'm sitting today. And we have a process transfer underway to a high-volume Asian fab in Taiwan that Alex is going to cover in a bit more detail in the later presentation. Next slide, please. So I like this slide a lot, okay? This really shows the architecture in action, okay? So we're using an IRLabs schematic, but it's a sort of beautiful representation of how our laser technology fits in with the IRLabs co-packaged optics right into the GPU itself. So the core of this architecture is the GPU. So this could be a Blackwell, next-generation Blackwell GPU chip from NVIDIA. What you can see is it being surrounded by the silicon photonic chiplets. So the 4 gold boxes, which are manufactured in GF. So what's happening here is they're connected through a high-speed interposer that they both sit upon. So you have a very high-speed electrical signal coming from the GPU over to the CMOS chiplet, which then converts it from the electrical domain into the optical domain as locally as possible. So what that basically means is you're transmitting high-speed RF signals over millimeters as opposed to meters within a traditional data rack today, and that's where most of the energy saving actually comes from. So we then have our laser. So our laser really powers this entire optical circuit. So our laser is sitting inside a remote module. And all of the laser wavelengths are multiplexed and split into the multiple fibers. So you have fiber arrays coming into this co-packaged optical module. So in the future, these modules, the GPU modules, there'll be no high-speed interfaces. It will be all optical fiber connectivity. There will be a DC power supply, of course, but all the data coming off the module will be in the optical domain. So this really facilitates bidirectional connectivity from one GPU to the next in the scale-up architecture that we've mentioned a couple of times already through the presentations. The other important thing to point out here is the lasers are remote, and there's a couple of good reasons for that. Fundamentally, the GPUs are generating huge amounts of waste power. They're liquid cooled to get them down to sort of 100 degrees centigrade temperature. The lasers don't really like to operate at that temperature. So having the laser remote allows it to be operated in a much more benign temperature environment, which improves its efficiency, which is important from a power saving perspective. And it also improves its reliability. And the laser can be in the front of the rack, could be on a tray as we looked -- as we saw earlier from IRLabs or it could be at the back of the data center. The fibers are effectively lossless. So the laser has the potential to be put anywhere within the data center. The other advantage is if the laser does fail, which is very rare, actually, you can unplug it and put in a replacement. So you're not having to throw a $40,000 Blackwell module into the bin if it fails. So this is the true essence of co-packaged optics. This is a really nice slide that really demonstrates what is co-packaged optics, it's getting those silicon photonic chiplets right in beside the GPU being powered by a remote laser source and providing true optical connectivity from one GPU to all its neighboring GPUs in the network. Next slide, please. So we've mentioned IRLabs, and this is some of the sort of latest configurations of multiple photonic chiplets surrounding this GPU or ASIC, if you will look at 10 in this particular example. They're not the only people working on this. If we just click on, please. NVIDIA themselves are obviously now very active and publicly active in this space. At the GTC Conference, we saw Jensen trying to untangle the optical cables, which was quite amusing. But you can see they're adopting a very similar approach surrounding these GPUs with multiple silicon photonic chips. So this is really exciting for the industry. The other key thing is they've openly stated they're using micro ring resonators exactly the same approach as IRLabs. So this is an incredible endorsement of this technology and how it's going to scale in the future, both for scale-up architecture, but also for scale-out architecture. Now just click on, please. And both of these companies are working with both of the silicon photonic foundries. As I mentioned, GF, maybe slightly more advanced today, but TSMC will catch them up very quickly. But they're very, very mature, high-volume foundries supporting this silicon photonic microring resonator landscape. Next slide, please. So we also have an optics industry MSA consortium, that's a multisource agreement consortium, defining the laser standards specifically for this ring resonator architecture. Now we have a number of promoter members, and there's some very large Tier 1 companies in there, but we're also in there as well. So we've been working within this consortium for about 4 years now, defining the laser standards that's going to power the microring resonator architecture. So that defines things like wavelength grids, frequency grids, optical power requirements. So we've been as a core partner in this process and really shaped and influenced where the standards are today. On the right-hand side, you can see all the sort of observer members of this MSA. And you can see all the big players within the industry. If you just do one click, I've NVIDIA highlighted, AMD, of course, are very active in this space. They're extremely interested in this technology. And also Inphi that Tim mentioned earlier, now part of Marvell, also very, very interested in this approach. So this is a great endorsement of the whole architecture, strong involvement from the industry leaders, and we are very much at the heart of that right now. Next slide, please. So when do we go to volume, that's probably the key question. And again, Vickram alluded to this a little bit earlier. 2027 is the target date for volume production. This year, we're starting qualification. We've got the designs that are frozen. The technology is developed. So we're starting the qualification program. 2026, we complete qualification. We start to do pilot ramping up into production for 2027. So a very, very exciting time for us. To put it into perspective, what's the size of the opportunity here? So in 2028, the AI industry GPU shipments is forecasted to be SEK 19 million. So if you look at the architecture that we've looked at over the past few slides, you can see that any given GPU is surrounded by multiple silicon phototonic chiplets. Ayar Labs showed 10, NVIDIA showed 32 and typical architecture in terms of powering from the laser is that 1 laser is driving 2 chiplets at the moment. So you can see in terms of quantities, if you take the Ayar Labs approach, then we need at least 5 laser sources per GPU. If it's NVIDIA, then that's going to be 16 laser sources per GPU. So the potential market size for this approaching hundreds of millions of laser sources per year as we go through 2028 and to the future. So an extremely exciting, large addressable market when this really starts to become deployed in the data centers. The next slide, please. I think this is really my final slide, just to summarize. So for sure, we've got these sort of megatrends in the sort of AI infrastructure driven by rapid developments in compute performance, ultimately, the demand for lower power consumption. The current I/O solutions, whether it's copper within the racks, pluggable between the racks, they just cannot deliver the required improvements in the future. They don't have a road map to do that. This is why there's intense interest and activity in the ring resonator architecture for the CPU GPUs. Remote light sources powering the rings are using proven multi-wavelength laser arrays. We have the technology ready today to deploy. And today, Sivers is producing the leading chip performance in the market for the leading customers in the market. It's an incredibly exciting time for us. So I will just finish off by introducing Mark Wade. Mark is the Founder and CEO of Ayar Labs, one of our partners, of course, our key partners in this space where he's going to talk about their technology and the partnership that we have together and how that's developed over the past few years and where that's going to go in the future. And then I think after that, we're going to hand over to Alex, the Photonics MD, who's going to take a look at the sort of manufacturing scale up across the business. Thank you.

Hello. My name is Mark Wade, and I'm the CEO and Co-Founder of Ayar Labs. Today, I want to talk a little bit about what's going on in large-scale AI computing and how that's driving a new need for a new paradigm of higher-performance optical connectivity. So we all know that AI has changed our lives just in the last few years since ChatGPT was announced. But underneath the hood there, there's been a revolution in computing. We've moved from a paradigm of general purpose computing from the last few decades. Now it's a very specialized computing that's underneath the AI application. And in this application, it's basically very large matrix multiplication and mathematics. And what's happened is the AI models in these big neural nets have gotten so large that they no longer fit within one computing or one GPU's memory. And you have to spread that model across a large system. So this is where you hear about hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of GPUs being used in these large-scale AI data centers. So the first thing to realize is that as the problem of AI spread across all these GPUs, we entered into a regime where connectivity between these GPUs is incredibly important. So on some of the largest models that are running today, you have a huge bottleneck in how much data and how much bandwidth you can exchange between all of these GPUs and accelerators in the large-scale AI system. So there's a drive to say, we need a new kind of technology and a new technology road map to help drive more bandwidth, more connectivity across these large-scale systems. And today, the AI data center is broken up into 2 parts of a communications network. There is a so-called scale-out network, which looks more like a traditional networking Ethernet or InfiniBand is used in this portion. And that part of the network is already using optical communications, and it's inheriting those solutions from the more traditional data center networking set of products and applications. The other portion of the AI compute network, we call it the AI scale-up network. And this is the part of the communications fabric that is running the core AI computation. And today, that portion of the system is using electrical communications. And historically, it's always used electrical communications. But this is where the core bottleneck comes in and where Ayar Labs is working to solve the communications bottleneck. And it also connects to why our partnership with Sivers and work that Sivers is doing to bring forward high-volume laser array technology is very important. So what's happening in the scale-up fabric is as you try to connect more GPUs in that fabric, today, you're limited by the bandwidth and distance that you can achieve with electrical connectivity. But if we can bring a new generation of silicon photonics and co-packaged optics into that portion of the network, -- not only is it an incredibly exciting market opportunity because the volume, the number of units that are needed in that portion of the system is much, much higher than what's needed in the scale-out portion. It also solves a huge problem and it gives AI companies, AI researchers and people building products and solutions on top of large-scale AI, a very exciting future. I want to talk a little bit about what Ayar Labs does and the products that we build and how that connects to Sivers. Ayar Labs builds optical I/O connectivity products for large-scale AI systems. And that's comprised of two things. There's an optical chiplet side of that, which is the electronic photonic piece that does the very high-density, high-performance integration of advanced node transistors and a new generation of silicon photonics. And there's the laser module piece that provides the laser light that connects into the optical chiplets to power up all this new optical I/O bandwidth. On the CMOS side, we partner with leading foundries like GlobalFoundries, TSMC, Intel foundries to work on this new generation of densely integrated electronic photonic optical chiplets. On the laser side, our partnership with people like Sivers is incredibly important to us, and Sivers is working on a unique DFB laser array technology. And we've been able to accomplish a number of world firsts in partnership with Sivers. We've used their array technology to build our 8 wavelength and 16 wavelength laser solutions. And we've showcased some of those products at a variety of leading industry conferences. And the array technology that Sivers is working on allows us to build a very elegant integration of these laser devices and integrate them all into 1 chip to really streamline the manufacturing and the kind of scale of manufacturing you can get to and the efficiency of that design. And as we add more lasers to that laser array, it allows us to scale our overall bandwidth. So there's a few ways that Ayar Labs scales its performance and bandwidth and one of them is by increasing the number of laser wavelengths per fiber, which we call wavelength division multiplexing. Now one thing that I'm very excited about that Sivers is working on is taking some of the core innovations that they've accomplished in their research manufacturing environments, such as the fab in Glasgow and transferring those capabilities over into a true high-volume commercial-ready production foundry environment, such as what they're doing at Win Semi. And we think this is going to be very important to addressing the scale and the overall volumes that are going to be needed as these laser array technologies and laser products go into the high-volume AI scale-up fabric. And ultimately, the industry needs products in that market application that are in the tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of units per year. So we're incredibly excited about what's going on there. And Ayar Labs is looking forward to continuing to work with Sivers for many years to come.

Thank you very much and very exciting. The last presentation before Vickram comes back with his closing remarks is Alex, who's going to walk us through the manufacturing and production strategy.

Hi, good afternoon, and thanks for joining the call today. So my name is [Alex McCann] and I am the Managing Director of the Photonics business unit. In this presentation this afternoon, I'll provide a brief overview of the Sivers Semiconductor's manufacturing strategy that will ultimately allow us to scale the business in a capital-efficient manner. Now looking back in the industry in the early '80s, the common mantra was that real men needed fabs. And that indicated a collective thinking at that time that you needed a wafer fab to be in control of your destiny and to be successful. However, since the introduction of commercial large-scale wafer foundries in the early 2000s, the dominant model in the industry has become what we call an asset-light model, where the users continue to provide product design innovation and the wafer foundries provide the manufacturing service. And as a result, the reliance on captive CapEx-heavy wafer fabs is reduced significantly. So what are the advantages of this model? So there are many advantages to move into an asset-light manufacturing strategy. The primary advantage is a reduction -- significant reduction in CapEx, given that the CapEx for capacity flex or capacity scale up is provided by the foundry itself. And to put that in perspective, to scale up a wafer fab from an R&D or a low-level production volume basis to the volumes that Andy mentioned, whether it be tens of millions of units to hundreds of millions of units is essentially the equivalent of tens of millions of dollars all the way up to hundreds of millions of dollars in capital avoidance going to this model. So you can result and ultimately, you can result in the business scaling with a much more capital-intensive structure. In addition, the users of our foundry service gain access to a proven high-volume manufacturing operation with best-in-class yields, best-in-class cycle time and best-in-class product reliability. Also, users of our foundry service can tap into world-class mature supply chains and demand management and demand planning business processes with good inventory control with established suppliers and having additional benefits of additional inventory control and cost management. Next slide, please. So the Photonics business unit is in a transition mode at this point to an asset-light model. And we are repurposing the Glasgow wafer fab for being our primary reduction facility to a model where this facility will be more focused on R&D, on photonics product design, on new product development and new process development and preproduction release for volume products ultimately, and we'll run low-volume early stage production in that particular facility. And then the transition to the asset-light model means that we will partner with WIN Semiconductors based in Taiwan. We are focused on high volume production. They have proven high-reliability platforms. We will match the technology between the Glasgow fab and WIN Semiconductor fab. And there will be, in the future, ongoing technology transfers from Glasgow to WIN Semiconductor as we develop new process technology and new product technology. And ultimately, WIN Semiconductor has been chosen to become our volume manufacturing partner. So WIN Semiconductor were founded in 1999. So they've been around for quite a long time. They're located in Taiwan. We are currently the largest pure-play compound semiconductor foundry in the world with advanced 150-millimeter wafer fabs, all in Taiwan currently. And as Vickram mentioned, when we talk about derisking for geopolitical issues, we also have the ability to build facilities in Europe or the U.S.A. should that need arise. And they currently have 1 dedicated wafer fab for producing optoelectronic and its photonic products. In 2024, the annual revenues of SEK 540 million. And typically, their major customers today would be Apple, Broadcom and Lumentum, so marquee names in the business. And their mantra is that they provide compound semiconductor solutions from RF to lightweight. So a very established wafer foundry playing in the compound semiconductor space. Next slide. And if you move on to the wireless business unit, they are currently utilizing an asset-light model and have done so since their initiation. So they're using GlobalFoundries, who is a leading manufacturer of essential semiconductors for a whole variety of different technologies. They're currently the third largest silicon foundry in the world with about [$ 6.8 billion] in revenue in 2024. Major customers for GlobalFoundries would include marquee names in the industry such as Qualcomm, MediaTek, NXP, and AMD. They currently have 11 200-millimeter wafer fabs, currently in Taiwan, with our 7 million square foot footprint. So a behemoth of the industry. We have a global presence in the U.S., in Germany and Singapore, and that provides the geopolitical derisking that everybody in the current political climate is concerned about. And we use their -- 2 of their advanced RF process technology nodes, which are the best in the industry, including 45RFSOI and 22FDX. So that concludes my talk on the on the manufacturing strategy. So I'll pass it back to Vickram.

All right. So that was bringing us very close to the end. So it's just me between the rest of the presentation and Q&A. So I'm just going to conclude one slide. Thanks, Alex. So again, I just want to kind of bring us back to what we started with, right? We have a lot of current investors, potential investors, analysts listening in. Investing in Sivers Semiconductors, it's still the question on the mind. So I want to come back to what I said at the beginning. It's a pretty unique opportunity to participate in 2 of the industries hottest global secular trends. So I'm going to leave you with the 5 tools. So 2 of the hottest secular trends. We are playing in 2 markets with tremendous momentum that sums up to a [$2 billion] serviceable available market. We've got 2 highly different technologies, differentiated technologies you heard about both our wireless and our photonics technology, both from our business leaders as well as key customers and our analysts. And so here, we see growth in the coming years also in 2 waves.. So that's the [ 5 2s ] I want to leave you with. The potential here is to triple, quadruple the business or even do better at very attractive margins over the next 4 to 5 years. And I want to go back to what Tim said during the analyst section. As a prospective investor, you look at this opportunity, and this opportunity is very relevant to Europe and the U.S. We believe the company is undervalued right now because it's not yet fully appreciated what we are bringing to the marketplace. And this is the time for you to consider participating in the company because within the next 3, 4 years, as we deliver this, there's some tremendous market valuations at stake, and it's an attractive opportunity for you to participate in that journey with Sivers starting now. So that's my rally cry. I believe it's a very compelling thesis, and I hope to talk to many of the investors that are on the call in follow-ons and happy to provide more details on our plans. So thanks, everybody, for spending several hours today with us. And hopefully, it was educational and you learned more about the company, our focus and where we are going next. And now we're going to open this up to some Q&A.

Yes. Maybe we can start with a few questions from the crowd here.

[Technical Difficulty]. So the first question, can you describe a little bit about the process that you [Technical Difficulty] implemented company... Okay, from [indiscernible]. The process from you try to implement here from ID generation, product development, technology development and sales, how do you want to see that process going forward in relation to maybe what it has been in history?

Yes. So going back to one of the points I've made in the past, it was technology-seeking opportunity. So it was more about having a discussion with the customer. It was an interesting project, you cannot do it for a certain engineering development revenue. Now that we're becoming more market aware in our focus areas. Now we are looking at it as a cross-functional discipline, which is sales is sourcing all these interests from the customers. We are looking at the IP bases we have created. And we're trying to understand what's the broadest intersection of the 2 and that being supported by customers who have deep pockets and a track record. So that's where the process is going to, which is going to result in more of a standard or near standard product configurations to a broader set of market customers rather than the one-to-one of the past. So that's really the fundamental tying up of all these cross-functional disciplines and using our market awareness to provide product road maps that are more broadly attractive. So that's kind of the process in play. It's still going to take a few cycles for us to get there because we are still working through some custom projects. But as we get more market aware, I think that's the process that's going to end up in play.

And looking at your 2 BUs, wireless is already on track for good product revenues. What would you see be the trigger points for Photonics also getting the product revenues up? And why isn't that market taking off already because we have a lot of data centers and a lot of AI already in the space?

So you're absolutely right. Wireless is on a growth path, and it's going to continue to go. And I've managed businesses in the past where some businesses are growing and supporting other ones that are incubating and then when they hit the inflection, then they are able to support the other business. So we are in one of those combinations right now. When you look at why has it not yet triggered or why has that inflection already not happened, you look at the current momentum of traditional data centers, they're built out in a certain way. There are large incumbents. So there is that momentum that kind of continues to take it. If I were a pluggable guy, let's say, I'm in pluggable optics, part of me says, I got to be part of this future. Part of me probably says, well, I might lose content from my pluggables. How do I continue this journey. So it's an essential tension when you have established incumbents in old architectures and then we got a new architecture coming up. Early catalysts are the likes of Jensen from NVIDIA, the hyperscaler spend, et cetera, that's starting to say, hey, this is not just some fancy thinking. We're putting some serious money behind this and you're saying you've got to solve this bottleneck. So that's the first piece of putting more seriousness into the inflection point. But they're not stopping that. They're also in the value chain, they're asking everybody to get ready with their supply chain robustness, product qualification, manufacturing readiness. So we see the right early signals and also from the big guys. But it still takes time to get to the types of deployment they're talking about. So that's why it's taking a little bit of time. And that's why the combination of the businesses we have is allowing us to continue to invest in that inflection point. While leveraging the benefits of our wireless business that's growing well. So that combination is kind of helping us kind of take that journey to the inflection point. And we'll be watching it every 3, 6 months, we're going to watch, hey, is the inflection point gathering strength. Does it mean that 6 months earlier or 6 months later, but that's the essential tension you have is there's an established market that is doing things a certain way, and then thought leaders are saying, hey, the wall is coming. You got to change.

Thank you. So regarding your...

Can you just identify yourself and then.

Yes. Sure. Jacob Benon here from Redeye. So regarding your pipeline of customers that you showed in the presentation, I think it set some 30 technological engagements within wireless and 7 within Photonics. So considering that you're now much being much more picky regarding what customers you choose to work with. I wonder like what criteria you use to evaluate which of these potential customers to work with? You mentioned mainly deep pockets and track record, but is there anything else here?

Yes. There are a couple of other things also, right? I mean -- not everybody in the top of the funnel makes it to the production line. There's a lot of loss as well. There's certain conversion rate, right? So absolutely, they need to be financially strong and they have impact on the market through either their past or their current thinking. But at the same time, I also am cognizant and the team is also cognizant that we can't do 30 custom products for 30 technical engagements. So we're also looking for similarities and needs. And so what we might do, for example, I'm not saying this is what's happening, but let's say, 30 of them have come in asking for products. And we find out that if we do 2 products, we could get 18 of them. We might just said, that's the best return of money because any additional engagement is actually going to dilute us. So we might say, let's do those 2 products and make sure those 18 customers are happy, right? So that's [Technical Difficulty] services multiple people. But those multiple people still should need to be financially strong as well as have the strength in the market to take something through to production and put it out there.

Another question for me then on the topic of customer engagements. To capture meaningful market share of your USD 2 billion serviceable available market, do you feel confident that your current customer engagements include..

Especially with the focus on the types of customers we're looking at in the markets where we are in, we are making sure that our focus right now is on strategic customers with that type of market presence of our market share. So that if we get our share of those customers, it does allow us for that type of market share for ourselves. So at this [Technical Difficulty] at some point, we'll get there, but right now, we need to get enough of our share of mind and share of wallet of the material strategic customers in both of our businesses. So the names you saw from Harish or Andy, these are all big names with big market shares or market...

Something you mentioned earlier in the presentation. You have made many improvements in terms of like your working capital structure for the past few quarters and many of the current deals that you have announced is included [Technical Difficulty] if there are any other ways you can work to optimize your working capital structure going forward?

I will make a couple of comments and then Lottie, if you have something to add, please do so. Number one, absolutely, it's contract discipline [Technical Difficulty] eager to get developments going. But now if these are customers with the ability to front cash because they're cash rich, they're financially strong. Then of course, there's a discussion to be had on, hey, look, for us, it's important for us to get our working capital to get these things done. And so we use that as a basis to sit with our customers and put down contracts that make sense for both, but also allow us not to get in a negative cash flow situation within projects. So that's one just block and tackle discipline. The second thing is not ending up with too many customers that have cash flow problems on their own because that then becomes a trickle effect on to us. So that's another type of filtering discipline as well, right? So those are 2 things. And of course, we are very careful in how we take on equity and debt financing as well because some of these things take a little while even with the right contract structures. And in the meantime, we want to have that right partnership with our financing agencies. So it's a combination of those things. And of course, adding more and more product shipments allows for a repetitive business, which again improves our cash flow situation going forward. So meaningfully shifting to product shipments, that's going to continue to remain a huge focus for us. Lottie, do you want to add anything to that? No, I think it was perfectly the end?

No, I think it was perfectly...

We'll take some questions that were submitted online. Martin says thanks for a great presentation, a compelling case. What about your -- what about your cash position, credit facilities, et cetera, in the current and future burn rate?

Lottie, do you want to take that? Do you want me to?

No, I mean, I can build on what you mentioned in terms of managing cash and working capital. I mean we ended Q1 with a cash position of SEK 73 million. And we're not going to come up with any guidance today or new information on our cash burn. But as we showed here in the presentation, obviously, it's a focus area that we have. And we, over time, have been moving in the right direction the whole time. So the first step is obviously to be EBITDA positive, which we have shown we can be for a longer period of times and then becoming cash flow positive. So the discipline in capital and CapEx expenditure and improving working capital. So we have a good plan, but this is also a business with large projects and large in and outflows in those. So to as much as possible balance those flows will obviously minimize our need of capital.

So I would also add on top of what Lottie said. Just 3 things to keep in mind. Number one, as we grow the top line, which we are on track to continue to do. The top line takes care of the bottom line as we go along because it's not like we inordinately adding resources and putting a lot of below-the-line spend on ourselves. So as our top line expands, this is a problem that auto solves, number one. Number two, as I mentioned, we're being much more disciplined about our cash flow. And you guys have seen over multiple quarters, while it's never a straight line, our adjusted EBITDA metric continues to improve, which should show you confidence that we are taking strong control of our spend is and how we are managing our financials. So as top line grows and we continue to exercise this fiscal discipline, this problem auto solves. And we are now on the cusp of turning those corners in the coming quarters. And so that's really our plan.

One for the Photonics business. When do you think the market for photonics wearables tech could arrive from [Semi].

So it's a fair question. The question basically talks about just to repeat, when will Photonics take off in wearables. These things involve humans, and large-scale human trials, especially if you're trying to solve tricky biometric challenges. So in terms of what we can provide as hardware platforms, physical platforms for our customers to go then and conduct these long-term large-scale trials. We have done a lot of things already for interested customers. Now it depends on how those trials go because those trials involve not just the massive field trial population. It also involves tremendous algorithm development, et cetera, that go along with it. So again, as I say, it's one of those outpost markets where we make sure we're in the fold -- we have provided the hardware platforms. But after that, it's one of those long journeys that has to happen in the world of biometrics and wearables. So as we know more, as our customers choose to tell us where they are, we will bring information to you guys, but these are always long trials. And that's one of the reasons why it's an outpost. It's not a focus, expansive market opportunity for Sivers right now.

Jonathan, can you compare and contrast your beam former with Anokiwave and Renesas?

Do we have Harish online? Harish, did you hear the question?

Yes. Okay. absolutely. Yes, happy to do so. So that's a great question because you're highlighting 2 of our biggest competitors on the market. Anokiwave, of course, has recently been acquired by Qorvo. And so that's part of the Qorvo portfolio. So as I mentioned, so they are actually contained in that comparison chart, although I anonymize the name and sort of used a proxy of the semiconductor technology that they use. In general, our beamformers have superior output power and superior efficiency to the competitive beamformers that you mentioned. And superior efficiency is fundamental. So even if you have more output power than the competitors, for instance, one can use a larger antenna array using a competitor beamforming IC. So just more antennas and that way you gang up more of the power. Of course, the solution would be larger and cost more. But then when you have better efficiency, even when you do something like that, the [DIFI] power consumption, the energy that you draw from the wall plug would be lower and less heat would be generated in the solution. And there is no way to work around that. And so as a result, we find that whenever we're in competition with such folks in any new request for quote or request for proposal from a customer, we're always the ones that are selected over these competitors that you mentioned. The ALL.SPACE RFQ dating back 4 years ago was an example of that. And the newer RFQs that we've received, including the 1 from the 5G Tier 1 telco infrastructure provider is just another example.

What other companies are developing laser arrays similar to your main photonic product? Can you compare and contrast yours with theirs?

Yes. So once again, it won't let me in the labs of these competitors, but from everything that we've had with respect to our conversations with our customers, et cetera, when it comes to the power levels that our customers need for their architectures. We seem to be the only ones that are capable of providing laser arrays in the formats they want at the power levels they want. There may be a company or 2 which does laser arrays, but they are at much lower power levels. That's what we've heard. So from a power level and an array format, we seem to be leading, but we never try to take our eye off the ball. Of course, people will be willing to catch up. And the other things to note is this market is not just for Sivers. It's too big for it to be having only 1 provider of laser arrays. There is space in the market for 2 to 3 vendors. And so each of them will work on their own to get their road maps up. But of course, having the lead allows us to go and see and deploy from the early moments onward.

Another question from Scott. At OFC, CPOs continue to gain momentum, and Sivers is a key element of driving that adoption. Once commercialization is reached in 2027 and 2028, how quickly do you expect the transition from LPOs to CPOs? And what kind of share do you expect exiting the decade?

So 2 things to note. LPOs are today talked about from a scale-out perspective, which is connecting the switches going from pluggables to LPOs, et cetera. One thing to remember when Ayar Labs CEO, Mark, talked about scale up, scale up is all about connecting many GPUs to many GPUs. The volumes there will be much higher than scale-out architectures, which is switches and LPOs and CPOs. So the better way to think about it is not so much as to how much of LPOs will convert to CPOs because that is still the smaller volume element, but it's more about how much copper will migrate to optical in the GPU to GPU connects. And that's kind of where we look at different scenarios. I mean nobody has a crystal ball. But even at a 5% to 10% conversion rate, by 2018, 2019, you're talking about that $1 billion SAM I'm talking about on light sources. And then anything on the scale out front could be 10% to 15% on top of that. So the reality is think about it from the framework of the many-to-many GPU connections and how much of copper will move to optical in the future deployments.

A more straightforward one. Isn't the CHIPS Act ended by President Trump?

So this is a common worry or concern. And so I want to give you -- and again, I'm not sat inside President Trump's office, but I've really tried to piece together what is he trying to achieve. And here is my view on it. But I do think there's a lot of substance behind this view. But to do that, let me do a little bit of education for the audience. The CHIPS Act has 2 parts of money. The U.S. CHIPS Act has 2 parts of money. One of the parts is tens to hundreds of millions of dollars for companies to incentivize them to build factories in the U.S. So like a TSMC building a factory in the U.S. or an Intel building a factory in the U.S. So that's one part of money. The second part of money is in the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars, and that's all about, hey, if I have promising technology in the U.S., I want companies to come together and commercialize it so that the U.S. still has technology leadership for newer generations of products and solutions. So these 2 parts of money. The part that President Trump has a challenge or a problem with is this big part of tens to hundreds of billions of dollars. And his primary challenge is you know the opportunities there in the U.S. You are companies with a lot of money. Why am I subsidizing you to build this factory in the U.S.? You should put your money and build it here because I have business to give you. So that's where he wants to squeeze those companies like TSMC or GlobalFoundries or Intel saying, why am I giving you tens of billions of dollars? You make enough profit, you go build a factory. So that's what he's challenging. We have not yet seen any signs of him saying, "Well, I don't want the U.S. to stay ahead in technology, I don't want U.S. technology to go into new products." He actually wants that. So this part of money, I haven't seen any pressure on. And guess which part of money we are getting our U.S. CHIPS Act funding from. I'm not planning on building a factory like TSMC in the U.S. I want to commercialize technology that's relevant for next-generation solutions. So hopefully, that clarifies that it's not that the U.S. CHIPS Act is dead. He wants companies to build factories to use their money, but he still wants to commercialize promising technology that's available in the U.S.

One around Photonics. Don't you think that a high 1-digit market share is low if you consider the position Sivers has in the AI Photonics business.

We are talking about time lines, right? So when I look at the next 4 to 5 years, I'm also looking at who are my competition, right? Yes. The future could be rosier than that, but we also have to have a plan first we deliver on. And then there are upsides to the plans. So some people might think it's conservative. But I want a place where I can go execute to. And then if we can build upside on that, we'll happily take it.

Very clear. Did you provide any revenue expectations for 2026 and 2027?

Yes, we don't provide forward-looking guidance like that. But I think on the slide that you're seeing on the screen, I've given you my view of what the Sivers' potential is, given the size of our teams, given the number of projects we can take, given the number of products we can release as to how big this company's business can be in the next 4 to 5 years. And I'm sure for the mathematically inclined, you can go in there and calculate whatever your growth rates are, et cetera. But this is just my view of the Sivers' potential that I'm showing here rather than the company issuing guidance in the outer years.

Do you use your new share issue money now and safe parts of the loan facility for later? Or do you use and pay interest for the entire new loan from the start?

The loan that we have taken, we pay interest from this part.

Yes. And maybe just to clarify, It's refinancing. It's not a new loan. It's replacing an existing loan that was coming to an end in May.

Exactly. And that's a very important point because I don't want the audience to think we're just stacking on debt financing. We are refinancing the debt line we had. And Lottie and I will continue to work on the right balance of equity and debt financing we will use in the company. But as you have seen in the press releases we have put out, the new loan facility that has been used to refinance the debt that came due is a very attractive loan facility, and it's with a bank that is fundamentally aligned with the long-term view we are taking. And that's why there's a 3-year facility, and it's a discussion among like-minded partners on, "Okay, how do we adjust this in the outer years? What do we move up? What do we move down? What do we want to do?" So it's a strategic debt financing partner we have right now that we have used to refinance the debt that came to you.

Very important distinction. The next one is from Scott. It sounds like Cloud Chaser and Summit Gen 2 drive the wireless opportunity within the next 2 years. Within Summit, how quickly do you expect volume to ramp? And is it specific to any particular geography? And what is the pricing?

So Harish is there, but I'll just make a couple of comments, and then I'll ask Harish to add. So we don't discuss pricing on our parts, so that's not something I can give guidance on. The product that is to be released in 2026 has a traction in multiple geographies. But of course, the way it might roll out is depending on which geography comes up first and which geographies next. But that product configuration from our customer is seeing wide interest across geographies. Harish, Is that a fair statement to make?

Yes, that's correct. So Cloud Chaser and Summit, you're correct that they are broad market products. So that's the key thing. They address -- they're not custom products developed for any specific customer. So a lot of the customers that are in our pipeline on the SATCOM side as well as on the 5G side, are either using Summit today in the sample phase and are building a product that will ramp to production or are awaiting Cloud Chasers, so that they can start designing a product around it. And indeed, the SATCOM frequency band that Cloud Chaser is addressing the Ka band, that is pretty widely standard, at least across the world. And so there is no difference between the U.S. versus the Europe versus Asia, et cetera, in terms of Cloud Chaser's ability. And indeed, as I mentioned, SATCOM has a strong geographic aspect to it, where every region and every country is investing local SATCOM technology as well as SATCOM networks. Similarly, the -- in 5G, we're talking about fixed wireless access. So this is a product that will be used towards both base stations and CPEs by the leading customer as well as several others. And these are products that are designed to cover the entire 24 to 29 gigahertz band, which would then make them applicable in Europe as well as in India, in Japan and all of the other regions where we're starting to see fixed wireless access rollout in the next -- in 2026 and beyond.

And not to forget, we heard from the ALL.SPACE CEO that they're seeing tremendous traction in their pipeline as well. So in terms of revenue growth, that will be contributing elements from that side as well in addition to these broad market ships. Something to keep in mind.

Okay. In the presentation, we talked about these outpost markets. The question is, do you think these outpost markets have potential to wake up in the near future?

The very reason why I maintain the outpost is because I'm looking for any such strong signals, but with very carefully orchestrated engagements. And if any of those suddenly, the spigot turns on, then of course, we look at, okay, how best to take advantage of that opportunity. But we've been very calculated about that. But each of those has the potential to become something strong. Otherwise, I wouldn't have picked it as an outpost in the first place. So that's kind of the mindset we have is how do I spend the least amount of money in the outpost while still getting a good read on what's happening in that market? And then the moment I know that something is big, something is about to happen, then we need to figure out how to quickly make sure enough resources are put there to get our returns.

Okay. Is there any news on your old 4D LiDAR customer, FMCW, are you still the #1 supplier for future products or products? And do you sell anything now? And are there products on the market yet? Or is it still in the future? Please tell us more.

Replay the name of the customer again here. Is it 4D what? 4D LiDAR...

Your old 4D LiDAR customer, FMCW.

Yes. At this point, as I said, I've shown you what my focus markets are and what my outputs are. And by definition, what's not there, is not in a relevant portion of my focus. That's how I'm going to answer that question. Because at the moment I keep getting asked, is there a seventh market? Is there an eighth market? Is that a ninth market, then we go back to the old days of trying to do everything for everybody. So what I speak about is where the action is right now. That's how the audience has to think about it.

Can you please review the exact amounts in terms of your strategic debt partner?

I think the information that we wanted to share with the audience has been shared through a press release yesterday, along with the original press release. That's the information we are sharing that gives basically all the details about the loan facility that we have taken on.

What baseband companies are supporting this DC standard can one run 256 QAM on a virtual modem or is hardware required?

Harish, you might be best positioned on this. I think the question, if I boil it down, if you move to the DC-based remote radio approach, does it run into a bottleneck at a certain size of modulation or something? Or is it usable?

Yes. No, that's a great question. So it depends on the channel bandwidth that you're trying to run on the [DIFI] standard. So I think it's in our press release, but the digitizers that we are building are supporting 250 megahertz and 500 megahertz, single channel and dual channel. So at the extreme end at 500 megahertz and at an extremely high constellation depth, I need to check actually if 256 QAM is that depth or it is beyond 256 QAM rather at 1024 QAM. So at that point, the -- and there is one extreme end of the highest bandwidth and the highest constellation depth where one runs into data rate issues on the [DIFI] standard. But I mean, the beautiful thing about the [DIFI] standard is that with this virtualized modem, one can now sort of address a very wide range of applications. And so there are certainly a very large number of applications where that extreme data rate isn't required. And so for the configurations that we're building, there is a very robust set of applications that will benefit from that.

Okay. Thank you. Two follow-on questions on the debt partner. Why can't you release the name of the lender? And when will you draw the money?

Well. It's something that is -- that's a conscious decision we have made. At this point, we're not ready to share who the lender is. As I said, it's a U.S. bank. It's not an investment bank. It's a traditional bank. What was the second question?

When will you draw it?

So Lottie, maybe you should talk about that.

So it has already been drawn, and we used the full amount to repay our original debt.

Again, going back to the whole idea, this is refinancing the debt. So which means what we had has been taken away and replaced by this. So it's pretty obvious where that money went.

Okay. who are the other laser array providers by name? And can you comment on them architecturally?

I think we talked about this already. As I said, there might be 1 or 2 other players. As I said, I don't get into the kitchen to know who's offering it. But nothing of the power levels in the array formats that we have been asked to deliver by our customers, we have seen from the others. So I can't say much more than we haven't seen anybody else provide in the formats and power levels that we have shown.

Vickram. Has there been any interest from other companies of a buyout of Sivers lately? Can you comment, sir?

I can't comment on any of those things.

Okay. A technical one. Can you discuss the technical capabilities of your various products? For instance, some of us know what Anokiwave provided in terms of both Ku and Ka band beamformers, what bands do you support and how large a matrix similar for your digitizer, how large a band at what sample rate and who is the specific competition?

I think Harish addressed both those questions. He talked about the [DIFI] bandwidth that we are supporting, that was already mentioned. And also Harish showed the road map where we have Ka-band products. We're bringing along Ku-band products as well for our beamformers. And in the future, if there are other bands that are needed, we have the capability too. But right now, our focus is Ku and Ka bands, which is where most of the action is.

Very clear. When will we know the name of the second Photonic customer similar to Ayar Labs question mark?

When I feel comfortable where the partnership goes, and then I can talk about it. And the other customer is also willing to talk about it.

Okay. I'm at the end of my list of questions.

Okay. That was a good, good bunch, and then again that we had questions from the live audience, too. So again, we are at 5:25, so it went a little bit longer, but I hope that all the sessions are very useful and there's a lot of information that we provided. And happy to take any follow-on conversations with analysts, investors as the days go by. But thanks again for attending our Capital Markets Day. It was extremely invigorating for me to have this audience and talk to them along with my entire team. So again, we thank you all for taking time out of your busy days and spending it with us here. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.

Thank you.