SkiStar AB (publ) (SKISB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you, warm welcome, everyone, to this Market Capital Day, and really glad all of you here in this room, and we're also sending with the webcast here today. So I will not be here alone. My name is Stefan Sjostrand. I'm the CEO of SkiStar and I have a host with me here today, Emelie Lundgren.

That is my name, thank you, Stefan. And these are, if I understand it correctly, the team that's present here today from SkiStar.

Correct, yes.

Okay, so yes, my name is Emelie Lundgren. I have a background as a financial journalist, but today, I'm a Director at Fogel & Partners. I guess you could call me the Chief Order Officer of today because I hope to make sure that all of you and also you watching from afar have the opportunity to join in, in the discussion. But Stefan, that's very many. We're not going to hear from everyone are we?

No, we are not actually. So this is the agenda for today, and you will be listening to Niclas, Lars-Göran, Martin, Mathias and myself presenting here today. And we have, yes -- good afternoon together. And apologies for the small screens, but I hope you will manage to see the numbers we are showing you.

And that it's crystal clear for you watching on the broadcast as well. So as you see, there's 3 presentations before we have a break then followed by 2. After each presentation, I will reappear make sure that we can ask some questions before the next speaker comes up. And then at the end, we will have an extended Q&A where you all can ask questions. [Operator Instructions]. So Stefan?

Thank you so much, Emelie. And before we start off with all the slides, we were planning to see, okay, how should we start this day off and so on. And then we decided actually to do a movie. So bear with me, guys. We will not give you any popcorns, but take a seat, 6 minutes and relax, and you will have a short movie. So let's go. [Presentation]

Yes. As you can see, it was a long movie, but we really wanted to show the heritage, which we also are extremely proud of and also what Erik and Mats accomplished when they drove up to sell and -- 48 years ago, actually. So I will start to talk a little bit about our market and the market we are into. And in 2020, when we started to make a strategy update, we also decided to make a lot of surveys and surveys about what's going on, what trend is going on in the market. And we have continued, of course, to look into those trends. And if you summarize those trends, we have put it into 4 blocks. And if you start with the sustainable travel, we can see that more and more of our guests really want to have sustainable travel. And that's actually from the booking situation into -- they arrive at a destination, and also how they act within the destination as such. And they also would like to be this digital physical experience, meaning that they both want to have this digital experience when they book the holidays, et cetera, but also when they arrive to the destination, they want to have the personal meetings. They want to have both and. And both and is also in the polarization, you can say you both want to be connected and disconnected. So you can clearly see a trend about how people want to live their life during the holidays. And that can almost summarize in the box down to the right, actually, where you look into the active vacation because this almost summarize everything in what's going on in this business at the moment, because people really want to be connected and disconnected. And when they are disconnected, they want to be in the area, roundings or surroundings, where we have a great point of view with our destination situated where they are. You can clearly see that people want to live a more healthy lifestyle. They want to have an active holiday and also want to travel together with friends and families. If you look into this industry as such, also, it's quite interesting to see how the industry had a very clear path of growth. And then we came into the pandemic and it almost became a V-curve and then it took off again. And here, we're talking about flights, we're talking about hotels, we're talking about restaurants, et cetera. So the business as such is growing tremendously, actually. If you look into the CAGR, it's 45% growth after the pandemic, which is, of course, significant numbers. This industry also employs a lot of people. And actually, you heard on this movie, we just launched that we employ a lot of people every year. We employ 3,000 young people. Some of them had their first job. And the first job is it for many in this industry, it's actually 1 of the 4 large industries, if you say, in Sweden as such, where you can really make sure that it provides jobs. And when it provides job, it also provides taxes for the municipalities, et cetera. So we have a big impact on the small resorts where we are a large actor today. When we read newspapers and look at media, we can hear about the climate changes, and we see them also impacting us almost every day. And for us, of course, we are, on one hand, worried because the climate change is going on. On the other hand, we are quite comfortable, if I say that word, because our 5 winter destination are based on a geographical point, which will not have a huge impact on our business. And Niclas will go through that later on and show what's happening when we are discussing and meeting experts within this climate change industry and also see that actually it will be a positive benefit for SkiStar what's going on in this world right now. And also, I must highlight also, if you look into Science Based Targets, we have actually got approved Science Based Targets. We are the only one in this industry, which have got approval of Science Based Targets. And we are also having this with scope #3 with the guests travel to and from our resorts, very impacted -- very important to have that to bear in mind. SkiStar without being like Tarzan and saying, "Wow, we are the best." But we are actually one of the largest players in the world. We are #4, if you count in turnover, if I clean out the amusement park from company in the Alps, I actually think we have the third place globally from a turnover point of view. But if I then start to zoom in from a Scandinavian point of view, and see where are we in Scandinavia. We are actually a quite large player. We have 44% market and Scandinavia is our market. And then if I look into, okay, how are we -- large are we in Scandinavia then? Yes, our 5 destination -- winter destinations, they are the top 5. And I think this is very important to bear in mind that we have an unmatchable position within Scandinavia. And if we look into #6, you can look into length of groomed slopes. And you can see #6 have 23, our #5 have 54. Just to give a perspective, actually that we have great position within Scandinavia. Our customer is mainly Scandinavian families who travel with children and also this is the, like I say, largest customer group. And Mathias will also talk a little bit about that customer group later on. And Sweden is the largest market. Then we have a lot of Danes. And especially this year, we can see a huge growth of Danes but of course, Norwegian. Many of them have cabins, but also fewer of them are more coming as tourists as such. Then we can see an increase of international guests and they are coming now more and more. We had a lot of international guests coming up to 2019, '20. Then during the pandemic, it dropped, but now they are start to come back again. 70% of our guests again travels with family and 8 out of 10 say they have got a memorable mountain experience when visiting us. And also, what we haven't spoken about so much early, we did it in this Q4 report this year like a teaser for what we are going to present today is the average spend from our customers. And the average spend is SEK 17,000, and Mathias will also go through different countries, different target groups, et cetera, and what it means to us and also a possibility to even get higher and more growth going forward. So now I will leave that side and go a little bit into our strategic framework. And this picture I've shown for, some of you, the last 3 years because this is really telling where we are coming from and where we're heading. And we are going from company who wanted to expand in Europe to decide to focus on Scandinavia, Scandinavia is our market. We are going from Alpine skiing to actually work with a year-around business. We are going from this lift and technical focus in to really focus on the customer and the guest. We're going from being -- when I was small and young kid, we stayed in a small cabin on -- quite far from the slope today, our guests, they want to stay better away than in home. The first thing they book when they go out to skistar.com is they want to really look into if they are close to the slopes? Is it ski-in, ski-out accommodation? Is there a fireplace? Is there a sauna? And those beds we have today in our system. We have had more beds before, but we decided to be quite strict with the beds we have had. And Mathias will talk about that later as well. Last but not least, we have been very good in producing snow in a sustainable way. However, today, we continue, of course, with that, but we even put in a sustainability strategy where we want to secure that we will have a sustainable and memorable mountain experience, all year-round and forever. Our strategic framework, I want to show this picture because it's tried to explain the 2 main areas. It's the Mountain operations where Niclas will go through it in detail later on. It is the Property Development, Lars-Göran will go that in detail, but just to give you the framework. And then around this, we say, "Okay, what is our foundations?" And then we say, "Yes, business development is important for us. Digitalization is important for is. The people and culture is important for us. The safe and security as well as the sustainability." So those are the rooms. And if you look into the Mountain operations. Yes, Mountain operations actually consists of many things. So this is -- everything around accommodation, restaurants, services. Services could be bed linen, it could be insurance, it could be cleaning as an example. Then we have the retail side. You saw it on the movie, myself is wearing the EQPE clothing here today. You can see it outside as well. We are a large player in retail today. We had a quite impressive growth in turnover in our retail business, both online and off-line. We have, of course, a big rental. We not only rent out skis, we rent out bikes, we rent out clothing. This is an important growing business. And then, of course, we have our passes. We have in the summer, we have activity passes, in the winter ski passes as well. We're working with guides or instructors previously. If we look into the Property Development. I am not -- we have not spoken so much about our Property Development in the past. Today we will actually go in depth around Property Development because this is a very important part of SkiStar in the new strategy because all property development must contribute to SkiStar's core, the operations. And here, we have first a lot of land, and we will talk about the land today. We have to -- when we have this land and we want to make acquisition of land and properties, of course, you need to have a department working with product development as well also securing the plus 120 different type of properties we have within SkiStar to handle them and taking care of them. And that could be everything from hotel to restaurants to other buildings. Then, of course, we also have a huge department -- not huge, but a large department working with rental and services for the Mountain accommodations. When we work with business development. In the past, when Erik and Mats drove up to sell and they bought this lift and the ski lift, then they start, yes, then we need to have ski rental, then we needed to get ski school. Yes, maybe we should open a restaurant, things just happened. But today, we have a holistic business development point of view. We work strategically with business development. And I just picked out 3 examples. So take EQPE, for example, in 2019, when this was founded during the World Championships in Åre, we decided to launch a winter collection. The turnover became SEK 8 million, and we were happy. Today, EQPE is fantastic range and it's had a turnover of [ SEK 50 million ] last year. And this year, we are planning to grow it even more. And we have good people working with it, both inside but also as brand ambassadors, like [indiscernible], Nils van der Poel, et cetera. Stockholm Hammarbybacken was a place where we were going for skiing, maybe 5, 6 weeks a year. Now we have all year-round facilities in Stockholm Hammarbybacken, a fantastic place in the middle of Stockholm where you can do a lot of different type of activities. In 2019, '20, we have 5.1 skier days. Today, we are going from skier days, which is an international way of counting a number of skiers to activity days. So we talk about both ski and activity, but in combination this have -- had a quite big growth, up to 5.9 million. Digitalization, SkiStar had a CEO in 2000. His name was [ Tuwald ] [indiscernible]. And [ Tuwald ], he was the one who registered skistar.com. I don't know if he understood how smart he was actually. But when he launched or made skistar.com happen, I think this was the foundation of our digitalization and the digital start of our world. And today, we have approach to really engage with customers and also where they prefer to interact and we also have guiding principles that this should be simple, it should be satisfied and also both accessible and also security, when we're talking about the data world today. And of course, the goal for us to be the leader here. And like you heard in the movie, today, we have 33 million sessions, which is -- it's a large number. And this is our platform, and we own this distribution channel and people sometimes asking us, why are you not going for booking, et cetera? Yes, because then we need to leave 30% of the revenues away. And we actually keep those 30% in our books. We have 1.8 million SkiStar members, which is a really high number, and we interact with those customers quite often. And we are really glad that this digitalization has helped us to have 76% of all SkiPasses purchased digitally and 92% of our customers doing a digital check-in today. Our foundation, and really proud of our people. And like I showed you, the guests are saying 8 out of 10 are satisfied and that is because of our fantastic people. And actually, 8 of 10 of our coworkers are saying that they love to come to work every day. And that's also a very good example of the foundation of SkiStar. Sustainability is a very important part, and I will soon come back to the goals around sustainability and also the safe and secure. Today, the picture here is showing some -- actually people working in the slopes, securing that our guests can have a safe day in the slopes. That means that if there is not like this beautiful weather. Maybe it has been snow in the night. So there's some avalanche risk. And then they go out and secure that there is no avalanche risk for the guests. They're securing that the slopes are safe. And if an accident happens, we have a lot of people working in the slopes, taking care of our guests. So also, I said to some of you when we had coffee break before we started off today, I'm really glad that we are opened up for new financial targets. And Martin will go through them in detail later on. So like a teaser then is that we are now going for organic growth, and the organic growth for us is actually 6% and that means that we clean out for any acquisitions or currency effect, so 6% growth. And we will also show you today how this has been historically. But we believe that this is a forward-leaning goal actually to keep 6%. We're also in this release this morning, tried to clarify the gap between previous 22% margin down to 18%. And actually, this is a calculation which we have tried to be clear about. But this also when we add this Hotel business, 18% also become a quite offensive goal, actually. So Martin will go through that as well. Then you have seen that we have been on a quite investment-heavy journey the last 2 years. And we believe also by having good control now of also our net debt-to-EBITDA also provides a long-term strategy for us to have good control of our debt going forward. And last but not least, we have also become a little bit more flexible in our dividend instead of just saying 50% and more, we say 40% to 60% depending on the result for the year. Here, I would like to just go through shortly within our sustainability targets because I believe that this is -- not believe. I want to say this is very important for us. So first of all, we are talking about activity days, and we are talking about 7 million activity days. That means that we need to go actually from today's level up to 7 million. And where should we grow, yes? Today, these guys will show you how we will grow in the winter side and how we will grow in the off-winter season, meaning year-round. So we believe that the year-round will help us to grow this up to the 7 million, activity days in total, which is, of course, super inspiring. The next one is that we would like to reduce the climate with 50% and we will continue to work with different type of activities to do that. We have done a fantastic job within operations, especially last year, we had a huge drop in impact since we put in HVO in all our grooming machines. And then you can say, "Okay, is it worth it?" Because if you look into the prices of HVO versus normal diesel, it's actually cost us SEK 25 million a year on our P&L, but we say, "Yes, this is important for the environment, and we don't go back to diesel." So this is -- I think it's an important message from us also to the market. We believe in this. And also, like you saw in the movie, we are continuing to develop different type of electrification within grooming machines, in scooters, et cetera, but also a lot of other things. And both Niclas and Lars-Göran will talk about that later on. Last but not least, I believe this dialogue, we need to have an interaction with authorities. I met the Minister for Transportation and Infrastructure a couple of weeks ago because we spoke about the challenges with the railway, and the difficulties and challenges our customers have to book the tickets with SJ in Sweden as an example. We spoke about road, and next week, we will be part of a big meeting with a lot of different stakeholders talking about what's going on that needs to be taken care of, infrastructure as such. So we, as a player, have a large impact on actually what's going on in this, say, infrastructure discussions in Sweden. And we also believe that -- and also Norway, for sure, but we have -- the industry has been not taken into consideration when you do the big plans for how infrastructure will look like. And here, we have a lot of -- come and support with, for building up those plans. So by that, Emelie, I would like to go through. It has been a lot of information and a lot of...

Take a breath, it's okay. But not too many because I'm going to ask you some questions. I would like to start with the revised financial targets, as you just previously mentioned. So 6% organic growth, 18% margin and below 2.5x . Your growth on margin, you said it's quite offensive. The 18%, for example, in the 6 years -- 6% organic growth. But I don't think it's too far fetched to say it's quite equal to where you're coming from.

Yes. If we start with the 6% growth then, the previous goal was 4% plus inflation. And if we look into how the inflation was up to 1.5 years ago, I think this goal was quite okay. But we haven't spoken so much about that goal as such. If we look into how we have delivered up to that goal previously, Martin will go through in detail, but what has happened is that it -- it has been cleaned out for this change in accounting principles, cleaned out for St. Johann, cleaned out for -- some years back. We are showing a growth of 5.6%, that means that 6% is a quite aggressive goal because during some of those years in the beginning, we had a quite heavy increase in prices, for example, on SkiPass, et cetera. Now we come up with a new baseline, and we will grow 6% from the baseline. And we believe that this is quite, I will not use the word aggressive, but it is quite a tough goal, actually. And then if you talk about the margin, we cleaned out again. Also clean, clean, clean, and then we come up to 18%. And then on top of that we added the Hotel division, which is actually getting SEK 500 million in turnover but with much less margin than we've had on the other businesses. So, again, 18% is a quite forward-leaning goal.

I think everybody is kind of keen on hearing Martin's presentation, which is at the end of today. Okay, just one more question, before I let you go. You're into year 3 of turning from winter to year-round but still summer or the other seasons than winter are just a fraction of your sales by now. Isn't it going quite slow?

This is the question I didn't want to have because the guys -- of you who know me, in this room and I think [ Jens ] is sitting as well. He -- after the first summer season, he was a little bit disappointed, and I was also disappointed and saying, it's going to be faster. But what I believe is that -- not believe what has happened is that it takes time to build. And I'm impatient person. I wanted this to go faster. However, I believe that you need to learn how to operate the summer business before you can really say it works. And now we have just finished the third summer. And I must say, I'm really happy to see that our -- things we did this summer with lowering the prices, with 40% on these activity passes and so on, has actually showed it works. So we have found the model how to charge and also how to get volume because we need volume and now we will utilize our customer database we have to get people up and also have a very not only memorable mountain experience also have a quite affordable summer holidays, because for us, this will become extremely affordable. If you compare prices, what it costs for a week, go biking, hiking, et cetera, versus go for an amusement park or travel outbound, et cetera. So again, to answer your question, yes, it has maybe taking some time, but we also invested. We didn't have any activities. We had a lift, yes. We didn't have any trails. We didn't have any coasters. We didn't have any bikes to rent out the first year, et cetera. So yes, it has taken a little bit -- maybe too long time, but I believe that we are on the right path going forward. So long answer, but it's important for all of you guys hearing this. We really believe and also the 7 million activity days is also coming. A lot of them are coming from the summer holidays.

We have to stop there for now Stefan to let the others one speak as well.

Yes. So, Niclas then.

Niclas is up. As you showed, Stefan, the Mountain operations the first of 2 of the business areas, and we will hear from Niclas Sjögren Berg, Chief Operating Officer.

Thank you very much. Niclas Sjögren Berg, as Emelie said, is my name. Started in this company quite long ago, 1989 was 14 years in Sälen before I moved up to -- or I took care of Åre and the Vemdalen. And since 3 years from now, I've been the Chief of Operations. This is Mountain operations. One of the most unique things about SkiStar. The fantastic thing about this is the activity pass, SkiPass that we have. We're going from SkiPass to activity pass. That's the engine of the company. It doesn't matter if we have 10,000 people inside our slopes or we have 50,000 people inside our slopes because the whole thing is to just get more -- yes, because we don't have more costs, now we use this. The other thing is accommodations, hotel and lodges, restaurants and services, which actually are in the same package. We don't have to own all the beds, but we have to rent them out. We have around 36,500 beds, which we rent out. And the main goal for us is to fill all those beds because if we have a cabin with 6 beds, and it's only 4 people, then it's 2 empty beds, 2 cold beds. And we don't sell any SkiPasses. We don't rent out anything. So that's a not good thing for us. The best thing for us is actually to have 2 people in every bed because then they are perhaps 3 people when they're coming back next year. Then we have the rental and retail, which is very connected to each other. This is our shops in the best location. Close to the slopes, close to the places where we have the cabin, the lodges and a really good thing. We know that people who rent their skis, who rent their bikes, they have a little better experience than people who bring their own because they get new sharpened edges, they got the best skis, they got fixed bikes and everything works together. The other thing is our guides, a quite small business for us today. We can grow in that market. But we know when people use a guide or a ski instructor or a bike instructor. They have a better experience and they intend to come back more often to us. And why is that? I started as a ski instructor and I know when I met them, they had no expectations more than learn to ski. I showed them the best slopes despite of the weather. I showed them the best restaurants or not showed them maybe. I talked about the best restaurants and the best night clubs. So you can sell the resort without that they think that's you're a salesman. So that's a really, really important thing. As Stefan said, we are a big player in Scandinavia. We have the 3 largest ski resorts in Sweden, and we have the 2 largest ski destinations in Norway. And we also have a fantastic product, as Stefan showed you and we saw on the film, is Hammarbybacken. There was a saying a couple of years ago when we were competitors, all I heard before SkiStar started, and that was actually train in Sälen and ski in Åre. And that was something when I worked in Sälen, I didn't like to hear, of course. But for us now in SkiStar, it's perfect. So this is a life cycle when you talk about skiing. This is a life cycle that you actually can start in Hammarbybacken, really easy slope, very close to the market. And then you'll go on your first vacation, you go to Sälen and you train skiing. When you're feeling now it's time to move forward, then you go to Vemdalen or to Trysil and then you may end up in Åre, Hemsedal with your friends. It's a little bit longer slopes, it's a little bit steeper. It's more like the Scandinavian Alps. And then you probably get family, you get kids and then you start all over again. You go back to Sälen, you go to Vemdalen, and the circle is all around there. So this is a perfect match for us, all those destinations. The other thing that's important is that they are located in different parts of Sweden and Norway. And we have climates, and we have weathers. Climate is a very long circle and weather is short circles. We know for 1 year to the other, the winds come from the west or the winds come from the east actually. And the weather system follows the winds. And if the winds come from the west, Åre got a lot of snow and Hemsedal got a lot of snow. Hemsedal always get a lot of snow. But then Vemdalen, Sälen and Trysil, when the weather systems comes from the east, then they got a lot of snow. So it means that we spread our risks. So if we have a season with bad snow condition in one destination, it's almost 100% sure that it's better on another destination. So we can move the guests around. This is actually figures. And why we are showing skier days is an international measurement when we compare skier days -- compare destination to each other. The -- one skier a day is a day pass. A week pass is -- we have a little longer week in our resorts and most of them have now is 6 to 8 days. And then also a season pass counted as 21 days, and you do that in the States, you do that in Europe and you do that in Sweden and Norway. We have been in this business for 48 years. Activity days in summer have been in 3 years. Then we have -- had some summer business in both Sälen and Åre a couple of years ago, but not in the strategic ways that we do now. The number of beds, as I told you, was 36,500 control of us. And that's -- you should see now it's very, very small here, but that's about 57,300 other total warm beds. So we have 60% of the beds in our destinations. And that's really, really important, as I told you, because we want to fill the beds so we can sell our other products. Those figures here, number of slopes, number of lifts, it's maybe the first thing people look at when they're choosing a ski resort. They want to see the variety of lifts, the variety of pistes. They want to see -- you can put another list here with kilometers of slopes and everything. So this is actually really big when you look into the Scandinavian. How should we improve this? We have been in this business for 48 years, and we always say we can do better. This is 3 of the strategics that we are working with in the future. We want to be a full service provider for all year-round that mountain experience. Mathias will also talk about that more later. We want to increase capacity and weatherproof destination and we want to secure sustainability, future mountain experience. I will go into this more in detail those 3, and I start with a full service provider. We are in a big transformation right now. We're talking about going from winter to all year-round. And just to state that all year-round, that isn't the same today as 365 days. That's important to know. Because now when we're talking about the summer season or the non-snow season, if I say so, spring, summer, autumn, is around 80, 90 days. The busiest part, of course, is from the school holidays. When the schools stops in middle of June until it starts in middle of August, but it's possible for the future to have activities those 365 days. But now we are not talking about that. How can we do this? We can use current infrastructure. Stefan named here and talked about earlier, and you saw what's happened in Hammarbybacken now in our other destination. Yes, we have made some investments. But we are now on the level for the non -- the snow-free season, that we don't have to do more investments for the future. If we have to do new investments for the future, it means that then we have a lack of capacity. We are not there yet. So what we have done now we are going to live on for many years in forward. But we have to take those investments in the beginning. When we're talking about current infrastructure, we had all the lifts ready. We have the mountain there. We have the cabins there. We have the restaurants there. We have the shops there. We have the rentals there. If we haven't had that it would have been impossible to do what we are doing now. And that means also, it's almost impossible for anyone else to start with that because the starting costs are so high. And to use our resources that we have in place, it's much better if we can use them not all year-round, but those 90 days compared -- plus 90 days compared to 150 days today. Two main things who are important for us is actually to increase capacity and weatherproof our destinations because you saw the film, you didn't see it rain, you didn't see it bloom, you didn't see it snow. Everything is perfect. But that's not the reality. It's more like when that happened, yes. And then you put out all the pictures on your Instagram and Facebook or to let the whole world now, actually. But we have to secure that if you are a guest in our destination, you have the same experience even if the weather working against us instead of with us. It means that you have to have lifts who can run when the wind are high. Maybe you don't come up to the same places, but you can still ski through the whole area. So that's important. When there are a lot of people like there are, for example, in Christmas, New Year, the holidays in the Eastern. It could sometimes be long use, especially when the wind is high. And then you can also move those people through the areas without building new lifts, just to tell them how they should move, where should you ski? What should you do? So we can do that in another way. Yes, climate change, as Stefan said, is happening. It's really important and a no-brainer for us to work with those things. The operations today after what we made with HVO100 on our groomers is only 1% of the total in our company. So we have done something very good there. We want to be energy self-sufficient by 2030, we're building a lot of things in this area. We want to be fossil-free by electrification in our fleet. Today, 91% already are fossil-free, but we will move from HVO to electrification. It's happening a lot in those areas right now. And we are there together with our suppliers to test things because they really want to test things with SkiStar. They know we are a reliable partner in this. This is actually our sustainability road map. This is what we are doing now and where we will be in the future. We know that we have to make more snow production in the future. That's the scientist, what they tell us. It's going to be more periods with 0 degrees or warmer during the winter. It will be more -- less cold periods and they will be shorter. So it's very important for us that we can produce the snow for snow production in a shorter time. But we have all the water permits already in place. So that's a good thing to know because that's very hard to get today during all the environmental thing and everything. We want to see that we have right amount of snow in our slopes. That's important because if we have 3 meters in one slope, it doesn't matter because no one knows that. If we have 50 centimeters, that's enough. And that means if we can measure that in real time with our snow groomers with this positioning system, then we can move the snow instead of producing new snow. And that technique is quite new, and it's growing all the time. And we're preparing to get the slopes -- better prepared for it, so we don't need that much now actually. But in the future, what we will do then? Solar power, one fantastic thing. Energy storage, charging point, district heating, hydropower, it's there. And it doesn't mean that it should be a lot of investment for us, but it could mean a lot of business opportunities also. As I say, no snow, no show, very, very important for us to do this with snow production for Alpine skiing. We have been working in the last 5 years actually with SMHI and NMI, it's the metrological Institute in Sweden and Norway. They are actually the scientists, there are guarantee for what we are saying are the right thing, actually. As I told you, shorter cold periods, we need more snow. Maybe we need up to 100% more snow, in some of our destinations, maybe not in Hemsedal and in Åre because they are located on a higher level. And the temperature drops 1 degrees every 100 meters coming up. But I think we will be there also on those destinations. And that's in 2050. We have the water permits -- water rights and the permits in place. We're working with the expansion of new snow systems all the way, so we will have that in all our slopes. And as I said, we want the right amount in the right place with good groundwork, the GPS and snow measurement. And then, this is a saying from the scientist and this is a saying, specially from the media, that seasons will increase by 2070 actually with 20 days in the beginning and 20 days in the end. And if you have 150 days of skiing and 40 days will go away, then, of course, that would be affecting our business. But is that true? And I will show you a graph how we see on this because this is what science have told us, and what we are looking into 2070. If it's happened 2050 or 2080, no one knows. But it's happening. No doubt about that. When we look into skier days in our destination, we can start in this place because if we lose 20 days, the 3 least -- weeks of the season, that's 2% of the total skier days. But actually, now we don't close here because of the skier days. It'll be because of the lack of snow -- we can ski out here in the May, in Åre destination. But it's the lack of interest because it's green back home here in -- green back home, green here in Stockholm or in Oslo and anything. It's like you're playing golf and you're playing football. And here, in the beginning, it's 1%. So those 20 plus 20 days, nothing here and 1% of the total skier days here. And we have some costs here also. I can promise you. So this could actually be an opportunity for us. And I think we, in the northern atmosphere are quite happy. I told you as I started as a ski instructor in 1989 in Sälen. My main goal was all the time to give that little extra. We call it TLX, the little extra, to our guests, to see the guest before the guests sees us. Because if we do a good job, even if I work as a lift attendant, if I work as a ski instructor or if I work in the ski rental or on the reception or whatever it is. If I can put -- place guests so they are satisfied or very satisfied, they are in the loyalty box, and they will come back to us, and they will talk to all their friends about this when they're coming home. So it's really important, and we recruit our members. 65% of overall season staff come back and we recruit them not through competence. The most important thing is the right values, the right attitudes, the right behavior. Because if they have that with them then we teach them how to do and they give you a fantastic experience. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Niclas. I only have one question for you, actually, before we let Mathias up because you said that one of your strategic initiatives for the Mountain operations is to increase capacity and weatherproof. And as a company, you have previously communicated about reducing cost and looking over what you're spending on. Don't you need to spend in order to do that initiative?

We need to spend. And we -- but you can say that in two ways, we need -- if we exploit a new ski area with new lifts, with new slopes, with new snowmaking. That costs money, of course. And we are going to do that. But that's not the whole thing, because when the -- with the techniques today, and we can see that some of our areas are not that occupied like some of the most popular. How can we move just there? It's not only by building new lifts. It's not only by building new snowmaking system. It could be a lot of other things. And Mathias have a fantastic tool, our SkiStar app, which can provide guests with information. The guest, okay, they like to ski where a lot of people are, but some of them also want to go where they are alone and then we can point out those. And we've just been -- in the beginning of that area. So it's yes, something costs, but other things that we can do to better improve our product is almost cost-free.

Thank you, Niclas, for now. We'll continue this discussion later on, and you made a perfect segue to the next speaker. We can call it part 2 of the Mountain operations. It is Mathias Lindstrom, Commercial Director. Mathias, please tell us about the fantastic tools you have.

Thank you very much, Emelie, and good afternoon, everybody. My name is Mathias Lindstrom, I'm the Commercial Director for SkiStar and I've been with the company since 2007. I will present to you how we work to win the customer, how can we maximize volume into our destinations, and how can we increase our revenue streams. To achieve that, there are 3 main focus areas for us, where we need to be successful. First of all, we need to work in an effective way with our communication, to create awareness and interest to our brand and products. Secondly, we need to take control of our own distribution and drive traffic into our sales platforms. And finally, we need to secure commercial beds and also secure early occupancy. If we look a little bit further into those 3 key areas and start with communication, we work today with what we call a 1 brand strategy. That means that all our communication should drive traffic into the brand of SkiStar and build the brand of SkiStar to create awareness and also drive traffic into our most important sales platform, skistar.com. We work with different kind of communications, everything from PR earned media to marketing campaigns through Europe. We are active today on 16 different markets, and we create 33 million sessions into skistar.com. But the most fundamental communication is our customer database. We have today 1.8 million customers or members within our database. And that is the most cost-effective way of communicating and bring traffic. Why is it so important to control own distribution? Well, I should say that's a key topic for all kind of businesses today. And the answer is customer data. When a customer book through our channels, we get the possibility to collect data, try to know as much as possible around our customers. And when we drive them into skistar.com, we can create sales. If we compare that to external distribution channels, take, for example, an OTA. They will collect all the data. They will, of course, give us a booking number, but we have to pay 15%, 20% commission for that booking number. So it's extremely important for us to collect the data. Today, we are selling around 95% of our total revenue through own distribution channels. And 70% of that is digital sales. Why don't we have 100%? Well, at some source markets -- international source markets, we need some external help from agents and different kind of airlines, bus transporters, et cetera. So we need to complement our own distribution. As I said, we have 1.8 million members, and we have been very successful of building up this database during years. We can communicate with those 1.8 million customers. We can send out a mail to them when we are sitting here actually. And if we can bring them into skistar.com, we can start to convert that traffic into sales. What we also know is that members have a 38% higher average spend than a non-member customer. So we always try to convert a nonmember customer to a member customer. In the long run, we want to create a long relationship with those members. We want them to come back from year-to-year. As Niclas said, start in Sälen and then continue through Vemdalen and Åre and Hemsedal and so on. And that gives us a customer lifetime value, which is really high. Bookable beds. SkiStar has today around 36,000, 37,000 beds within our booking system. Every week, out of those 36,000, SkiStar owns 10,000 of them. And of those 10,000, 4,000 are hotels and lodge beds. The other 26,000 beds are external beds, which is bookable through our booking system. As you can see in this graphic, we have parts or periods during the season. This is the occupancy last winter. And we have parts where we are not fully booked. We can increase volume in January and March and April, but we also have periods where we actually are fully booked. During winter holidays, Christmas and New Year, we don't have enough beds during those periods. So we need to increase commercial beds. And how do we do that? Well, we control today around 60% of commercial beds at our destinations. We can increase there. We can take market shares from other actors but we also have something what we call cold beds, 160,000 cold beds, second home beds, which is not being renting out. If we can offer those bed owners, great offers, discounts, et cetera, if they rent out their beds through our system, we can increase a number of commercial beds, and that is very important. This is SkiStar customer journey or our value chain. Most of our bookings starts actually with accommodation. Our customers want to secure a bed out of their preferences, how they want to stay, what kind of facilities they want to have in their accommodation and so on. And that customer journey can actually start up till 18 months before arrival. They want to secure their bed. After that, we are trying to sell all our relevant products in advance before they arrive to our destination. And this is done through data knowledge and marketing automation. Out of what we know, we start sending mails, et cetera, trying to sell different kind of services, insurance, cleaning, et cetera. We continue to selling in ski schools, bike schools, guiding and then, of course, our passes, SkiPass and activity passes, and finally, rental and retail. So in the end, before they arrive, we are trying to sell all relevant products. Today, we're selling actually 81% of total revenue in advance. That is great for our cash flow, but also they have a new wallet when they arrive to our destinations, so they can start spending again, hopefully. We still have some sales at our destination, and that is a lot linked to our retail business and our sports shops at our destinations. So what will we focus on for the coming years? What are our key topics? Well, I should say, we have 4 topics to focus on to create increased revenues. First of all, dynamic price model. I will come back to that. We need, as I said, increased number of commercial beds. We need to increase number of guests on a yearly basis. We are a volume-driven business, and we need to increase average spend per customer. If we look into those topics and start with dynamic price model, we want step-by-step go towards the fully integrated dynamic price model. What does that mean? It means that prices can change on a daily basis, actually, due to supply and demand but also how the customer act, when they buy and what they buy, what kind of segments we are selling to. Today, we are working dynamically with our accommodation and almost with our SkiPasses. But we want to have dynamic prices for all our products. To be able to do that, we need to collect the data and link more data sources, so we can do a lot of predictions and forecasts, because that's the fundament for our dynamic price model. We also look a lot into market segmentation. You can have different price models if it's a B2B business or a B2C business. And we also had different price models when it comes to our winter season or summer season. Then in the end, of course, it's about maximize all prices due to what we believe the customers are willing to pay for. Something we also put a lot of effort into is payment methods because the last year's -- actually payment methods is a critical part to win the customer. So we are always looking to have the right payment methods for our customers. That was pricing. Now we will look a little bit into how we will bring in more volume to our destinations. And we start a little bit with our winter season. As Niclas said earlier, we are improving our destinations and products all the time. And that gives us the opportunity to create great offers, better offers than our competitors, and try to win potential customers in the market. We have actually a huge potential when it comes to the international market. because we have a lot of skiers in U.K., in Germany, in Denmark, but a lot of them still go south to the Alps. We have improved our product a lot for an international market the last years. The accessibility is much, much better today. We have great accommodation. And above all, we have snow. So there, we have huge potential to win international markets, and we can see that today, a lot of international guests are actually coming to us. And what we also can do is to continue working with data knowledge. So we can be more specific in our offers to every single customer we have. Instead of working with mass communication, sending out 1 offer to all customers. So we still can increase volume even if it's a mature market during our winter season. If you look a little bit about our summer season or no-snow winter season. Our main goal is there to increase volume. We have been working with the summer for 3 years, and we need to increase volume. We have increased the activity days and we have invested in new products, which we actually can create great packages. What we also need to do is to utilize the strength of our database. We have a lot of guests coming during the winter season. If we can get those winter customers coming twice instead of one time, that will have a huge effect on our summer volume. As it is today, there are only 3% acting like that, but if we, through communication offers, et cetera, can increase that number, that will have effect on the summer volume. And of course, we also need to change our way of communicate. We have been talking about winter for 48 years and communicating winter, we need to change that, talking year-round -- our year-round business. We need to change customer behavior actually going south during the summer and going north and have an active holiday with us. So we need to change our communication. The last part of our key initiatives for the future is average spend. We have been quite successful of increasing average spend over time. This is a result of pricing but also a result of our value chain, our customer journey within skistar.com, and we have increased number of products into our basket. So today, we have an average spend of around SEK 17,000 when they buy accommodation and SEK 5,000 without the accommodation. So how can we increase that? Well, those graphics shows average spend per source -- different source markets. The red bar shows a booking with accommodation, the gray bar without the accommodation, and the blue line is volume of unique buying customers. I will explain this in detail. There are big differences between different source markets. If we compare a British customer to a Swedish customer, the British customer spend much more in average. Why? That's because if we look here, they put more products into the shopping basket. A British customer put 3 products in general in their basket, while the Swedish customer put 2.2, so almost 1 more product in the basket. If you compare to Norwegian customer, they put almost 1.5 products more in the shopping basket, and that affect the average spend. So if we can improve volume of international guests that will affect a lot on average spend, but also it can affect a Swedish customer or a Norwegian customer to buy more products that will also have huge effects. So we need different strategies, increased volume on international market and increased number of products for Scandinavian customers, Swedish or Norwegian customer. A little bit the same. But here, we look into average spend when it comes to our destinations, but also when it comes to different segments, I will explain. Here, we have Trysil and Hemsedal and here, we have our Swedish destinations. Our Norwegian destinations have a much higher average spend than our Swedish destinations. Why? Because of amount of international guests. Our Norwegian destinations, they have a higher number of international guests but they also have longer stay, weekly stay. If we compare to Åre, which has the lowest average spend, depends on, first, they have a lot of weakened guests. Less days at the destination, which affects the average spend. But Åre also has a completely different segmentation mix because on this side, we have different segmentation groups and those 3 high red bars are segment groups traveling with kids, families. They are extremely important for SkiStar because they have almost double average spend than segments traveling without kids. So it's critical for SkiStar to win the families. Should we stop selling to the other segments? Absolutely no, because the families can just travel at some periods. So we need to fill up volume with other segments, but the families are very, very important for SkiStar. Finally, what can we do more to increase average spend? As we speak, we are working with a project creating a new digital sales platform where SkiStar will start selling external products. Products, which is not operated by SkiStar, and this will be a commission-based business model. So we will start selling snowmobile towards dog sledding. Later on, you can book a table and so on. Because there are a lot of activities going on at our destinations where we are not involved today. So we will take like a commission of 15%, 20% by selling those products and then there will be an operator taking care of the customers. By doing this, we see the potential of increasing our revenue but also, we will simplify for our customers because they always want to have one-stop shopping booking platforms. Simplify the way of selling products so it's both, hopefully winning for us, external operators and the customer. We will step-by-step launching this with a start now for this winter season, and then we will continue adding products to this model. That was the last slide. Thank you for listening.

Thank you so much, Mathias. And because I think everybody wants a cup of coffee. I'm just going to ask you one question. And that is the targets you have of both increasing volume, numbers of guests and increased average spend. Couldn't you argue you have a conflict here between quantity and quality?

No, I don't think so because it depends what season we are talking about. When it comes to summer season, our main focus is to increase volume. We need to do that. We have huge capacity. We don't have bed problems during summer. So we need to increase volume. Winter time, we are in a mature market. There we need to work more around the average spend. So it depends what season we are talking about.

I'll leave you for there, and you'll be back to during the extended Q&A. Thank you so much, Mathias. That concludes part 1 of today. We will take a break now to 3:30 that is about 10 minutes or 12, something like that. So for you in the room, there's coffee just outside -- out of this room, and you watching online, we're back at 3:30. [Break]

Okay. I think we're all back in our seats. Hope you've refilled your energy resources for this part 2. And so we will start then with the Property Development, the other big area within SkiStar and Lars-Göran Dahl, who is the Director of Property Development. Please.

Lars-Göran Dahl, living in Ostersund. I've been working 3 years in SkiStar. Before that, I have several other jobs in the real estate business, latest from the Diös Fastigheter. I was on SkiStar Board between 2019 to 2020. And then Stefan asked me if I could join him and I said, yes, and I never regret that because I love skiing, and I love real estate property. Good combination for me. During my session, I will describe how we work with Property Development. And the end of my session, I will have some sustainability. Okay, no notes here -- I don't know what the problem is so -- okay. We have 4 strategic initiatives. They are developed land areas in-house. We have increased pace of developed land areas into detailed plans, take more active role in strategic development project and acquire land and properties, and I'm going to go through each of those steps right now. This is what we called the SkiStar property value chain, this is something special. I explained it for you. Each of those steps will make -- increase our earnings in each step. And when SkiStar work, we take responsibility for quality and control during the whole process from raw land to consumer business. This process might take a little longer time, but in the end, the payoff is so much better than to sale off land -- raw land to other developers. And I'm going through the steps right now. Step 1 is planning for own raw land. I'm going to come back further on with what -- how much land we have. It takes everything between 2 to 8 years to raw land into a complete detailed plan. And why is it taking different time? One, it is design of the project. The other is how the local authority, how quick they are to processing the plan. And there's some difference there I can -- sure. Then we have the sale of planned land, and that we do -- if we sell the planned land, then we often do it Skiab, which is a JV to meet -- together with Peab, and Martin is going to tell us a little bit more of that. If we don't sell the raw land, we develop it ourselves. And here is the first cash check to us. The third step is to develop of apartments for sale or commercial areas. And otherwise, this demand will come from Skiab into us or we come to ourselves, depending on we're doing the project also ourself. And the fourth step, we have rental income from the -- from the beds, as Mathias talked about, and we have rental income from business area. And at last, we have a consumption effect of all the products that we are selling on our destination. Let's have some -- look at all the -- to a brilliant case, which we -- we can say the property value chain at its best, I would say. Now I will take you to a journey in Sälen, Lindvallen. We have the Gustav area here, which is very popular areas appreciated by all families and all ages, most skied slope in the world, I think. We have 1 kilometer south of Gustav, there was an area is lack of attractiveness for our guests. And what we are trying to do, we are trying to transform this but it looks, there -- was today, to something else -- to something, the picture down below here to increase the number of guests in Sälen but ski integrated all year-round guest experience. And this is the SkiStar property value chain at its best. What are we doing here then? Right now, we are replacing the old lift to a new modern 6-chair lift. In phase 1, in the property development, we have 69 apartments here, which is we're going to build. And they are with complete detailed plan right now. And the second phase, we have this area down here that we're planning for 10,000 square meters of apartments and 2,000 of commercial areas with everything, with shops, restaurants and other stuff. So this is the transforming from something quite boring to something much more exciting, and we are going to do some money on that trip I think. Now, we're going into something else. And that's -- this is important. We talk about land and square meters. In our annual report, we have information about -- we have land holding of 52 million (sic) [ 5.2 million ] square meter. We had it every year. And we have also estimated that 50% of this land bank is possible to develop, and that's become 2.6 million. Now we do another assumption that out of this 2.6 million, we think that 12% and 2.5 floors lead us to a building area about 780 (sic) [ 780,000 ] square meter. And what I'm going to tell you now that we have right now a process of 432 (sic) [ 432,350 ] square meter building in the process with -- in this, you can see. Here, you have the complete detailed plans. You know the planning process with [indiscernible]. And here you have -- we have 39,700 completed detailed plans. We have ongoing detailed plans 233 (sic) [ 233,750 square meters ] and possible detailed plans that we have an idea what we should do with this area of 158 (sic) [ 158,900 square meters ]. Together, they belong to those 432,000 square meter building area, not land area, remember now, and those land -- those building area is divided to our destination with Sälen and Åre in majority. And the key in this is to transform the raw land into complete detailed plan. The value increases as the majority of this land is in ski-out position -- ski-out, ski-in position. And there are a big profit margin by develop raw land into completed detailed plan. As you see, we have estimated the value to the plans in SEK 2,000 and SEK 20,000 divided the square meter building area. And this is a process that we will increase the pace in. So what do we do to increase the pace? We have 1 big thing -- well, 3 things that we do. One is to have ongoing meeting with our local authority. So we push the plans further on in the process. We have more focused organization that work with this only, nothing else. And we have worked with the same consultants team in every project, so they know what we want from them. And that's also a way how we speed up this transformation. So it's quite a large of value we are sitting on here. And it's a real project. Third thing, we have a strategic initiative is to take more active role in strategic development projects. In order to finance the ski product, some Niclas told us about, we must take part in the income who comes from property development. In order to -- other developers have historically been able to benefit from the ski product without skiing being involved in the property development, and that's not okay. SkiStar have this -- further on, a long commitment in this destination might -- that not might every developer have. So this is super focus from us. And what do we do to make this happen then? Take a greater ownership in the project. I think we have sat in the back seat before. It's -- we can't do -- we may have sit in the front seat and drive the car because we are sitting on the ski area. Building relationships with stakeholders. Stefan told about the community and people around this destination, it's super important that we have that. And we can -- in this project, we have to do more strategic land acquisition. So we come into those projects. Those 3 are important for us to do. At the right, you see projects who is ongoing. It's Rodkullen, quite controversial. Right now, it's 2,000 beds is planning in Rodkullen, and we are working with another partner on this project right now, and we will see what's happened with it. But it's an excellent area. Another strategic initiative is acquire strategic land areas, and I show you 3 cases of that. The first 1 is land area so we called Klyftberget in Vemdalsskalet, and we bought this land in 2022. Klyftberget will increase our ski capacity in Vemdalen with 50%. And that's -- we have to do with that because it's very crowded in Vemdalsskalet sometimes during the high season. And if we want Vemdalsskalet to grow, this is only opportunity. Here, we're planning for 5 new lifts. We are planning for 2,000 new beds in this area and 1,500 square meter buildings of commercials with everything I said earlier, restaurants, ski shops, ski rental, those services, but not only. Klyftberget will also offer a complete new type of skiing -- exciting skiing in Scandinavia with those slopes, which is -- I've been rounding up this hill and it's a nice hill. It's going to be good. Other 2 things. We have bought 2 strategic properties. It's Platakatan in Åre and Hovde Hotel in Vemdalen. And remember, we don't buy things without the meaning. We buy them because we have a contribution to the core business for SkiStar. And that's the main thing for us when we do property development, we always have that in mind, always contributing to core business. So I want -- go into a little bit of the sustainability targets that we have. We have 4 targets that we're working with in the Property Development area. We are saving energy with 4% a year as a goal to 2030. This latest year, we saved 6%. We promote biodiversity to all old projects, and that's a very important thing because if you take Klyftberget, for example, it's important to work with those things because otherwise, we don't get our completed detailed plans. 100% environmentally certified new buildings. Every new projects have that certification. We don't build anything without it. Most of our guests are more and more coming with electric car, and they want to charge the car between the cabins. And that's -- we have a target to have 800 charging points by '27, '28. And right now, we have approximately 450 but this the coming winter, I think we go up with 100 more, so 550. This is the target that we are working on, and it's very important in Åre development too. A case, we have talked about solar panels a little bit earlier. But here, we have someone in Lindvallen that we have -- actually, it's up and running now, and that's fun. For all our targets for SkiStar is to be more self-sufficient with energy. One step was to identify relevant buildings to build solar panel on. Our aim is to build on properties, building that used in energy in the building itself because then the turnoff and the investment is much better for us. We've got much quicker return on investment in that case. And we are right now working on a long plan for doing more solar panels and other properties and other destination. So that is a continued work we have to do. Thank you. That was my last picture.

Thank you, Lars-Göran. And I understand that these projects have to vary some when it comes to time and how much resources you need. Do you have to give a time frame -- do you have some average time it takes for a project to go from a piece of land to a profitable project for you?

As I said earlier, it's a time span between 2 years to 8. And I think it's -- as I said, 2, it's design of the project, that 1 part is very important, how fast is the local authority. And I can assure you that it's different in our destinations. Sälen good. We can do 2, 3 years, Åre have a little bit left right now.

Do you also have some kind of average value increase for your products?

We have an average value, and it's very high when we go from raw land because it's very low booked. So it's a good payoff for sure.

So when it comes to -- I mean, your part, the Property Development part isn't as associated maybe with the SkiStar brand as the Mountain operations, the skiing or the biking for that part. There was analysis last week, it saw risks in your Property Development area. What risks do you see?

In my area, I doesn't see so much risk, almost nothing. But for sure, the real estate business market right now, it's not very sunny days out there. But three things why I can tell you that, that is, one, our land bank is very low booked, low values, we have no unsold apartments and we have no sunk cost in project, and we can afford to wait that this market will turn. So...

Would it be fair then to say that these various local authorities and their way of working. Is that your biggest risk you would say, as far as how fast you can finish a project?

In some cases, yes, they are the biggest risk.

Do you want to say who?

No.

No.

Stefan will later.

Okay. Thank you, Lars-Göran. And remember, if you have questions for Lars-Göran, he will be available at the end as well. Now I think we're eager to hear from the CFO to understand how all this will come together financially, as well. There's not going to be a quick question part with Martin before -- Stefan will come up to do the final remarks. Then we will have the extended Q&A. So Martin, and the newest member of the team.

The newest one, yes. So as I have met some of you here, Martin Almgren is my name. I have been working for SkiStar now for 6 months. So I'm still -- I've asked a few people around in the business. How long are you new? About 6 months, you are still new. I started as an auditor back in 2002, working for Ernst & Young and then I have held several positions within finance. And one thing that has -- in my history, which is companies and I have always been working for entrepreneurial companies, Nefab, Addtech, AddLife and now SkiStar, which I can assure is an entrepreneurial company. And I think that's a really, really beauty. And I have had the luck to work with those kind of companies. So Stefan showed you this picture and he talked about the strategy transformation that we have done over the last years. Going from European Alpine skiing, I will try to explain a little bit what is the economic and the financial effect of this transition that we have done. So I will go through this and tell you a little bit what is the effect on the numbers. But we start here. Today, we released the new financial goals that we have. But before I get into the goals, I think it's also important to describe a little bit about the journey that we had internally around to reach those because for us, this points out the direction for the company for different stakeholders. Some of you are sitting here, but some of those stakeholders are also working in SkiStar. So it's important that we have goals that are easy to communicate also that people can understand. So we move from 4 to 3. That's one thing that we do. Then we tried to get goals that we can talk about. Our employees can attract to and understand when they are in the daily business. How can these -- the things that they do, the activities that they do effect on these goals? I think that's an important thing to have -- that we had a discussion about -- simplicity, which is 1 of our core values, use that when we would talk about this. So as Stefan mentioned, the organic growth, 6%. And what I think is important here to also understand is that we are going from an inflation plus 4%, which is in times like today, very, very short time to be able to fulfill this. When we have an inflation of 10%, it's very, very difficult. We say that we will have 6% on a yearly basis on the midterm. Some years could be below, some years could be even -- or above, but we will aim for 6%. And we are talking about organic growth, meaning we take away acquisitions, we take away the currency effects here. And this goal also aligned to our sustainability goal, as we have talked about, activity days, 7 million which is one of the drivers behind here as well. Moving on to the operating margin, 18%. And Emelie, you said before, this is -- is it a lower ambition than before? And I would say, no, this is not lowering. This is actually, as Stefan said, leaning forward. And that's based on -- I mean, going from 22% to 18% more technicality, how we do accounting is behind that change. I will get into that and explain that effect also. But we have added some products. We have added hotels that are quite new businesses, early stage and they are not as profitable as our winter product that we have been working with for 48 years now. The third one, leverage. And if we compare and we take operating margin together with that one, that also gives a direction what -- how much can we afford to invest? Now we have a limit here, 2.5x. We have -- we cannot just go on and spend money on things that are not good for us. We need to be careful and take care about the financial part of it, which is an important thing. Last but not least, our dividend policy opens up a little bit for us when we are using a range instead of a 51% or 50%, more than 50% that what we have had in the past. Now we have a range and depending on how the cash flow looks like and what challenges we have in the business, we have a range to adjust the dividend in the future. So this is really good for us because this gives us possibilities to create and develop SkiStar and create value for our shareholders. So how shall we be able to reach these goals then? And the first answer here is, of course, the strategic initiatives that Mathias, Niclas, Lars-Göran has talked about today. And if we look at the first on top here, develop an all year-round operations, that was mainly what Niclas talked about, building our destinations, make them attractive, make sure that we make and develop destinations that are weatherproof, we can still run a lift even if the weather is not sunny and blue sky. If it's windy and snow, we can still run our lift. So make the destinations attractive to people, to be able to attract even more customers going forward. The next thing, strengthen margin. This was what Mathias talked about. How can we use pricing -- dynamic pricing in a better, more efficient way. We know that the customer that starts their journey with us with accommodation is a more profitable customer than the one who are renting the accommodation through AirBnB and things like that. So we have to work with attractiveness here, pricing, et cetera. Next thing as we have communicated, we are on a journey, and we have from first of September, implemented the new organization, meaning that we are taking one layer out of our organization. So we will have faster communication. We will also focus more on cost, meaning that we will put more efforts into, for example, important things like purchase so that we can work more efficient on group levels not that Åre makes their own purchase of oil, Sälen their own. But as we work as a group together when it comes to purchase and also not only price but also the risk in the purchase and our suppliers. So more focus on optimization of cost. And the fourth one, normalize our investment pace. So what does that really mean? It means that we will have a look at our investments and make sure that we can pay the investments with our own cash flow going forward. I will come back a little bit to that one. So when we meet different stakeholders. We get -- often get the feedback that it's a little bit unclear to understand your financial reporting and the history. So I will take a few slides now and go through and try to clean and sort out a lot of questions. And yes, we have made a lot of changes in the past. We have changed strategy as we have talked about today. We have done acquisitions. We built up the new business of hotels, for example, restaurants, and we have talked about the summer products and things like that. Products that are early stage, some of those with lower margins. So we will guide you through that. And also about the Property Development part that Lars-Göran talked about, if we compare what we are seeing going forward, compare what the amounts we had in the past. So starting with this session, we said that, okay, we need to have a baseline somewhere in the history to try to guide you, and we said, okay, let's start with year '17, '18 and see what has really happened? And if we start with St. Johann, which was a part of that -- part of SkiStar at that period, Here, we had a sales or revenue of SEK 85 million. So we take that part out. And we had a loss that we take -- put back. So we had a loss of a few millions there in St. Johann. And then one thing that is important to understand is the accommodation, the mediated accommodation. Here, we talk about the way that we do just accounting, it's just technical part. But it has a really important role because as you can see, the EBIT level is more or less the same, but at the same time, we increased sales with more than SEK 400 million, just based on an accounting technicality. And this means that we have a profit margin reported of 24%, that goes down to 20.9%, even if we have the same EBIT level. So this is the baseline 2017 and '18 that we tried to guide you on. St. Johann was a strategic decision to move in, in year 2015. We stayed there for 7 years. We had the ownership of 68%. And during these 7 financial years that we had the ownership in St. Johann. The total operating income amounted to SEK 436 million and the EBIT too, minus SEK 185 million. So this is one of the reasons that we took the strategic -- a new strategic decision to move out from St. Johann. The second thing was that our business model didn't really work in St. Johann, the same way as it does in Sweden and Norway. We could only own, but -- and be responsible of selling SkiPass and the lift, we couldn't work with the ski school, we couldn't work with the accommodation and things like that. So our business model didn't work. So that's the reasons why we went out of St. Johann. And this is the history over the years where we were there. Back to the accounting practices and the change we have done there. And this slide is also important to understand why we moved from 22% before down to 18%. And if we look at the first table up here -- before I go into that table, I want to say that we released some information in our interim report for the second quarter for the financial year 2021. And we made a new guideline for the year '19/'20. And the guideline there was a sale of SEK 433 million. But as you can see here, the 2 years before was SEK 500 million and even more than SEK 500 million. So '19/'20 was as we now know, impacted by COVID. So the sales of accommodation -- mediated accommodation, when you look into the history, it's more close to SEK 500 million and more than SEK 500 million. So this means that just applying the new way of accounting had an effect on EBIT level 3.9% and 3.7%. We still generate the same amount of profit, and this is really the reason behind that we had a change in the numbers on the financials related to profit. Moving into Skiab because this is also a topic where we get a lot of questions around Skiab and the JV that we have together with Peab. And the start of this was when we wanted to develop the project Åre Sadeln. So when we took the strategic decision to start the Hotel business in year 2020. We said that, okay, Skiab is a good partner to use in this kind of transaction. And we already had three hotels with 50%-50% ownership. So we were already working together with Peab in some JV constellations. So we cleaned up our ownership structure, and we move all the hotels to Skiab, and we also have long lease agreements, which is good both for Skiab and for SkiStar. Together with the hotels, we also included some land areas. And now when Lars-Göran has talked about land, everyone knows that, that part is -- this is gold for us. So moving on to what was the effect here. And the reason is to lighten up the balance sheet. So when we did this transaction, moved the hotel, we lightened up the debt side of our balance sheet because we had quite some loans related to the hotels in our books. We also sent away some or sold some of the land. And here, we are talking about -- we say AAA location in SkiStar and what does AAA location really means? It means first ski-in, ski-out, but it also means that we have facilities around those around those properties, meaning restaurants, shops and other commercial areas where the customers can go. So that's our definition of a AAA location in SkiStar. Looking into Skiab also, we have the value of the hotels and the land, it's more -- a little bit more than SEK 2 billion, the book value today. Of that SEK 2.2 billion, SEK 300 million is related to the land, the detailed planned lands that we have. And that is almost 94,000 square -- building areas. And after Lars-Göran's presentation, everyone here in the room and on the web, understand what the building area is. So that is really good land that we have in this company. I talked about the long leasing contracts that we have, and this is also one of the reasons why we account without IFRS 16 when we look at our net debt-to-EBITDA because those long leasing contracts between SkiStar and Skiab means that we have a liability in SkiStar of SEK 1.5 billion related to this. And since we have 50% of the ownership, in reality, we stand for SEK 500 million in debt to the bank. But in SkiStar books, we have SEK 1.5 billion liabilities related to IFRS 16 and those contracts. When we look at Skiab, SkiStar and the Hotel business is paying rental fees to SkiStar, which is generating a good profit in this company, in this group. And we get back 50% of that into SkiStar income statement, as profits from JV. But between the rent that we pay, the operating result, we have some technical things that we need to also understand in Skiab. We have currency effects that we have talked about in the Q4, meaning some exposure between Swedish and Norwegian krone that can have an effect, and did have an effect this year. We also have interest derivatives that we need to reevaluate every quarter. And the third thing is that those properties that we have here. They are investment properties, meaning that we revaluate them every quarter or every year. Not a linear depreciation. We do market valuation on this, meaning that in the first 2 years, we increased the value on these properties. And this year, based on the market conditions for property companies, we had to lower the book value. And that has an effect on the books and our profit in SkiStar, 50% of those get back to SkiStar. Last, Hotel division, which is, as you can see here, have grown this business really, really fast. We started from SEK 37 million in 2020, 2021, and we went up to almost SEK 500 million in sales now. This is one segment that we report in our financial reports. And everyone here knows that this is a start. It's still not yet profitable, but Lina and the Hotel team are really working to make this profitable. And if we look at the operating margin and the operating profit, they are getting in the right direction because they create more profit this year than last year. So we are on a journey here. So if we look then to summarize the slides and the history and compare 2017, '18 to '22, '23, and this is adjusted. And it's adjusted for St. Johann effect, for 3 years or until -- St. Johann effect, sorry. We also have adjusted 2022, 2023 figures with the Hotel business, the restaurants and the accommodation because here, we are talking about organic. And we have -- and if we look at that then -- sorry, we have also the accommodation, but that doesn't have an effect here, sorry. 5.6% CAGR between those years. Yearly growth of 5.6% over those years, and 1.6% of that is through volume, meaning more activity days and SkiPass days that we have sold. So 4% is something else. That's price. Also looking at where the different revenue streams, we see that activity pass is an important product for us. That's where we have the majority of our revenue. And if we look at the ski school here, you see that we are losing or decreasing by 0.3%. And that's a strategic decision behind that. And that's also important because the people there, the young kids, the new people coming into the winter sport, that's the project -- the product that they use. So that's our key to getting people to like the skiing and to get those customers back year after, and year after, and year after. That's how we build the young people and get back to the journey that Niclas talked about. They start in Hammarbybacken and Sälen and go to Åre, and then they come back again. This is the door opener for us. And you can see here also the retail business, the sports shops, that's the part of our revenue that really grows fastest. 14.5% and we grow both our physical stores and our web shop. So if we go back to our financial goals, grow 6%. In this case, we have shown that, yes, it's doable. We have done it over time. And I think it's also important that you see when you look at our financial reports, it looks like we have grown even faster, but these are the real cleaned numbers. Moving into EBIT. This is a slide, to the left here, that we have shown last year, where we separate between the EBIT from the operations and the capital gain. And the capital gain is what Lars-Göran is talking about. We have low value on the land, and we sell it with a quite good margin. And if we look at the history here, before COVID in '17-'18, '18-'19, is that we have quite high numbers there, SEK 150 million, SEK 175 million in capital gains. And now the capital gains are lower, SEK 57 million, SEK 75 million. So going forward, we'll be more careful. We will be more strict, what kind of projects we will develop. So you should not expect numbers like before COVID. So to guide a little bit more, the SEK 75 million to SEK 100 million in capital gains, that's a more realistic number going forward when it comes to capital gains. And what's also interesting to see here is that, yes, we did 14% profit, but we are still growing the EBIT in actual numbers from our operation. So when you look at these numbers here, on the right side, we have cleaned out St. Johann. We have adjusted the mediated accommodation, and that has an effect only on the profit margin. And then in year 2020 and 2021, for those who remember, we had a loss in St. Johann of SEK 161 million, but we also sold the land to Skiab that year, and that made a profit of SEK 198 million. We cleaned out both of them. So looking at 18%. When you look at this year, yes, it's a bit tough. It's a way to do. But looking at the history, it's a goal that we should absolutely be able to deliver on. Moving on to net debt-to-EBITDA. When we talk here, and I said -- explained about we cleaned it out from IFRS effects. So this is only focusing on debt to our banks. And as you see in the history, we have been able to stay below 2.5x over the last years even if we have had investments that have, as you can see here on this slide, being a little bit higher in the last 2 years than previous. And when we talk about the investments here, I want to clarify that this is the investments in fixed assets like properties, like land, like lifts and things like that -- and machines. So it's not everything. I didn't include acquisitions in companies which is a minor amount. But this is the big portion of the investments. And we say here that we will normalize these investments, normalize the pace, and we will finance them with our own cash flow. So going into the cash flow then, this is the last slide for my presentation. Going into the profit or the cash flow, starting off with the profit here. Yes, as we explained in the Q4 report last week, our profit this year is a little bit lower than last year, mainly due to the higher costs. Of course, that had an effect here. We also had an effect on the adjustment for noncash items that we adjust for, main part here is related to depreciation. Working capital, down here. This year, we had the delivery of products to our retail business in August, which is good because we need the products to be able to sell during autumn and winter. So we wanted that delivery actually in August, but the year before the delivery was late due to logistic reasons. So that is -- that delivery came in our Q1. We also had an effect from leaving St. Johann. So in total, what we are saying is that this cash flow from operation should be able to finance our investments, our dividend, and this one is 40% to 60% now and also the borrowing side of it. That was my last slide. So final remarks, Stefan, welcome up.

So thank you so much, Martin. And I will actually just point out 2 -- where it's actually only one slide now left. And I'm really glad to -- that the team has presented the updated strategy. I'm really glad that Martin had -- went through the whole calculations backwards. So we see where we are coming from. And if we then look into those 7 areas, I really would like to highlight them. And all of us could now from going on, when we follow up our quarter reports and so on, relate to those 7 points. So if we start with the first one, we have a unique and stable both financial sustainable and also a market-leading position in Scandinavia. That's really stated here today. We also have a large land bank. Lars-Göran went through it. We have seen it in details, how many square meters of land, which are possible to develop. Also, Mathias showed our digital platforms. They will be an enabler for us to continue to drive visits to our destinations, both winter as in the important now summer business growing. And Niclas has told us about the importance of how we recruit new guests. And that is with everything we do with the world-class guest experiences. Then Mathias also told us about the importance of those commercial beds because there is many beds at each destination. We have decided to move some of the beds out because they are not in the AAA locations, but now since they have been built, a lot of them, also there is this 160,000. We will attract more of those in the peak seasons. And then also, how can we, like Niclas have described, utilize all the capacity we actually have within our destination to drive operational costs down and also that will help us to strengthen our margins. And then last but not least, Martin just showed us that we have been into a place where we had an increased spending investment, but we will now go back and normalize that and that will be helpful for all of us sitting here. So by that, Emelie, I would like to finalize and say thank you to all of you, both online and in this room. And Emelie, I assume you will start to navigate with some questions and so on.

Gather the questions in the room and also is coming in via the internet. So let's invite the speakers up again. And let's rotate. You guys stand over there and I'll go over the other side, you can all stand together.

You see, we're good -- color co-ordinated.

Very.

Yes, it's just Martin who stands out.

He's the newest member so. So a reminder, again, for you in the room, just raise your hand and we'll bring a microphone to you. [ Pietra ] has one in her hand [Operator Instructions] Okay. So I'll start us off then. You say that you're going to grow 6% organically yearly. Is that in line with how your industry is growing? Or are you going to gain market share?

I take that or -- yes? So I believe -- not believe, we really believe -- we have decided to grow our business. We have a stable market share situation in the winter business, so to say, but we say we will grow more than the market as such. We believe that we can gain market shares actually in this industry. That's one thing. And then if we look into other parts of our revenue streams like the retail side, we see that we are growing more than the market right now, and we will continue to do that because we have a very good structure both from the customer database, Mathias has shown us today, where we can sell retail goods, but also within all our physical jobs at our destinations.

Anyone in the room who wants to -- yes, we have one over here.

A lot of interesting data today. Thank you very much for that. Just to kick off with the 7 million target and I understand it's for 2030. If you could allude a little more maybe to how you see the summer product and the winter product make up there. And if you need to attract any new customer groups to really go there, how much would be international, how much would be domestic, for example?

I look at you, Martin, who has calculation. So Mathias...

Yes, I can start that a little bit, and then the other one can fill in. The 7 million days that we talked about, that's the sustainability goal, I guess you referred to. And the split there is 6.4 million on the winter and 600,000 activity days on summer. So that's the first thing. And then I think you can fill in, Mathias.

Yes. If you look at different target groups, I mean, during winter, we need to find more international guests because there are huge volumes to take shares. Summer time, I believe there are a lot of potential customers within Scandinavia, both within our own customer database. But we have also seen during those 3 years that we can attract completely new groups coming up for the first time to our destinations when we have an attractive product. So it depends a little bit on what season we're talking about.

Do you want to a follow up?

Maybe add also another part to the equation. Looking at your own Hotel operation, how does that fit into to this strategy? And how do you want to proceed to develop that? I guess it gives you some certainty of beds in your system and these kind of things. But how can you say, make it also a profitable proposition?

I can start a bit and Martin, maybe you can join me. And I think one thing -- in the past strategy, we have been very reluctant to increased prices on the hotel beds. So we have been quite, can I say Mathias, nice to really drive in and fill every bed. But since we also know that they are fully booked actually already now. And Lina a little bit angry on us, me and Mathias, why are we selling the beds too cheap. So we will actually make sure we have the right pricing on the beds, and it's better to take out a higher price on those, and that will also make the hotels a little bit more profitable as well. Since we have been reluctant to keep that price down to sell other products much more. So that has been in the equation of SkiStar wheel, so to say. So Lina will continue to work on the cost side, and she is committed to that and also to continue to work on the revenue side. So that was my ten cent. I don't -- Martin?

But it's also -- this is a little bit technical about how we adjust numbers between. So if you look at the Hotel division this year compared to last year, we have allocated more internal cost to that segment than we did before, this guy also get -- because the hotel, Lina pays the rent. And this guy here, Lars-Göran is the lucky receiver of the profit from the Skiab. So that's also one thing that makes the Hotel business looks a little bit lower level.

From a specific hotel division, so to say.

Another way of increasing revenue within the hotels is actually during our summer business. Winter time, we need all beds. But during summer times, we have capacity, and there we will focus to put customers into our hotel and lodges. So that will be -- yes, the selected accommodation we want the customers to stay.

Since we have a fixed rent.

Anyone else in the room at this time? Or else I'll go to the online questions. One from Adela is you stated that roughly 80% of total revenue is sold in advance. What types of products and services is not? And can you increase this share even further? Or should we view it as a roof?

Yes. First of all, yes, we are selling 81% in advance. What we sell within our destinations' point of sales is a lot linked to our sports shops and retail business. If we can increase the sales at our destinations, absolutely, as I presented, we will start selling other activities that will be point of sales, a lot of points of sales revenues. We will also try to increase our restaurants within our hotels and lodges. So there are potential to sell more as point of sales.

And I will continue. Yes, sir. Just wait for the microphone.

I have a question. I see the product that you sell into Scandinavian tourist is 1 way, 1 product. And the product that you're selling for British or Holland, it should be a very different product, the more packaged traveling. Are you extending that? You can have your own planes flying in and so we'd like to ending have. Is that something you're planning? Or am I just rebating?

I mean it's correctly that we need to sell different kind of products to an international customer. They want to have a more packaged product, half board. And there, we can actually sell our hotel and lodges, including food and beverage and so on. We don't operate transportation today, maybe we see what's happening within transportation, but no transportation today, but a completely different package for an international guest.

No transport there for the big packaging?

For transportation, not as today.

Okay. So I continue with Adela, I was wondering what revenue and profit potential do you see for the summer business at full capacity?

What revenue and profit potential?