SoFi Technologies, Inc. (SOFI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

We'll begin, I think it's beginning. All right. Great. So for our next panel, we're joined by SoFi CEO, Anthony Noto. Anthony has served as CEO of SoFi since 2018, steering the company through its transformation into a full-service digital bank. And today, he announced the launch of the crypto trading platform as well. His career spans leadership roles at Twitter, the NFL, Goldman Sachs. He's also a graduate of West Point. And as today, as Veterans Day, thank you for your service. I was actually at West Point last week for the Army game. It's really good.

It's beautiful there. Great time of year.

Yes. Well, thanks for joining us. Maybe, Anthony, you could start with running down where we are with SoFi as a story, the key initiatives ahead that are going to drive growth from an already impressive starting point today?

Sure. It's hard to talk about where we are without starting with where we've come from. I joined in approximately January of '18. We set out on a mission that's still our mission today and a strategy that's still our strategy today. And our goal was to essentially help overachievers, people that have done well academically, done well professionally, help them get to the point that they could live their ambitions. Their ambitions could be what size family they want to have, what size home, career they wanted to have, retire when they want to have, live where they want to live. And it was our view that this cohort of overachievers had been largely left behind by banks because it was hard to make money on them. And increasingly, banks had scaled to the point where they're exiting businesses based on what their ROE was as opposed to what the member or person actually needed and that was my pitch to the Board in December of '17, and we've sort of executed on this one-stop shop approach because there's no way to help people get to where they want to be financially if you don't help them spend less than they make and invest the rest. Savings is not going to get you there. Investing is critical. And if you don't spend less than you make, you can't invest. So relatively simple formula. It requires us to do everything we possibly can with them, either for all the major decisions they're making in their lives, paying for college, buying a house, getting married, having children but also all the days in between. So we have more information to help them when they make those big decisions. In 2018, we generated about $250 million of revenue, and we had about 650,000 members. We are about to launch SoFi Money, SoFi Invest and a couple of other products and services. Today, we're on track to do over $3.5 billion of revenue. We just reported results and had over 12 million members and expect to continue to add to that quite significantly, it grew about 35%. We're over 18 million products growing 36%. And we've been profitable, I think, for 8 quarters in a row and are driving really good margins, both on EBITDA and net income margin and growing book value quite meaningfully. In terms of where we go from here, we think we can sustain significant levels of growth, just focusing on what we're already doing and helping to drive continued brand awareness, driving continued trust, continuing to iterate on the products, making them faster, providing better selection, better features, better functionality, making the entire app more useful and more integrated in addition to providing great content and convenience and making the products all work better together. We think just that alone, we can grow pretty meaningfully from here. If you look at our last 16 quarters, we've exceeded the Rule of 40, which is revenue growth plus EBITDA margin and we've done that 16 quarters in a row with an average of 58%, which is quite remarkable for a financial services company. The business when I joined had 2 products that are both lending products that were basically 100% of revenue in lending, and now we're down to about 45% of revenue in lending. Lending is a great product, but it's also capital intensive. It can, in some ways, gate your growth. Our growth is really ungated now given the scale we have in the rest of our products and services, and we truly can offer products across the borrowing, savings, spending, investing and protecting. The new initiatives beyond what I already talked about is we mentioned crypto this morning. This is step one of a long road map of products that we will continue to bring to market. I believe blockchain and digital assets are a technology super cycle, similar to AI that will impact every element of the financial services world globally and actually have a bigger impact in third world countries and economies that haven't benefited from banking and capital availability over time. We'll launch a SoFi USD stablecoin, both the payment stablecoin and deposit stablecoin. The payment stablecoin, we hope to introduce in January, if not sooner. It will be part of SoFi Pay, which we just launched a couple of weeks ago, which is the ability to send payments from the United States across the lightning network, to, in this case, Mexico, into local Fiat. We'll launch Europe and Brazil before the end of the year. But so far stablecoin will be part of that transmission payment process. Our crypto business that we announced this morning, the payments that flow between us and other third parties will all be done with SoFi USD. SoFi USD will also be used at point of sale. SoFi USD will also be a currency and a tokenization of loans that will also be offered to all of our partners that generate 8 billion transactions, debit or ACH transactions through the Galileo platform per year. And we'll market SoFi USD to every large bank, every regional bank, every consumer company that accepts digital assets and everyone in between. And so we have significant aspirations there. We have secured lending aspirations tied to digital assets and many other investment opportunities. Beyond that, within invest, we've made a really, really big push to increase awareness for our Invest product. We'll continue to do that. We're actually rolling out crypto in Hong Kong in addition to the United States.

So can you maybe expound on SoFi Pay a little bit more? Like who will you be competing against to what are you trying to achieve versus sort of what you have right now? You hit on it a little bit or maybe you just dig deeper a little bit.

Yes. I've waited a long time to be able to say the word SoFi Pay. We purposely don't talk about our products external or internally based on traditional industry nomenclature. So I hate the word SoFi checking. SoFi say, I just -- I'm like, no, it's a money account. We put money in an account and you should be able to do whatever you want with the money in that account. It's a money account. That's why it's called SoFi Money. But the reality is, is when you're regulated as we are as a national bank, which I'm very proud of, there actually is nomenclature that you have to use, checking account, that's actually what it's called in a savings account, it's what it's called. But the functionality that we provide for that account is really put money in that account, you earn interest, 3.8% API. You earn reward points for money in that account. You can send money via instant self-serve wires, which I would encourage you to try. It's amazing. I have children, they need to send wires for different things. And without teaching them 1 thing about ABA accounts or routing numbers or Swift numbers, they could send a wire in 5 minutes. And it verifies your identity in real time every time. We can do international remittance now. We can do ACH, we can do debit. We're adding Fed now. We do Zelle uniquely. We do person-to-person payments either via e-mail or phone number. We do bill pay, we do physical checks. So we have -- obviously, bank transfers. We have all these ways to pay. And so SoFi Pay is really a way to bring that set of products and services to the masses around the world as a way to spend globally. The first version of it is this international remittance, but you'll see it evolve over time to be the place you put money when you want to pay and it can draw from any account, fund from any account, could fund from SoFi checking account, fund from SoFi savings account, fund from a SoFi brokerage account, fund from an ex-bank account. And so we want to help people move money as fast as they would like to move it so they can get on with what they want to achieve at the lowest cost and the safest.

So I guess like there's all these digital wallets out there today. Wouldn't this be competing with them?

100%. It's going to compete with every way you move money. So -- and the reason why we call it SoFi Pay is, you pick where you want the money to come from, you pick the way you wanted to travel or where you want it to go, and we'll pick the lowest cost way fastest way and safest way to get there.

Got it.

And it will be fully integrated in our app. It's not meant to be a stand-alone app. It's meant to be that SoFi Money is a tip of a sword for acquisition for us. SoFi Relay is the tip of the sword. SoFi Plus is, and this will be another way for us to create these unique need -- meet these unique needs and then bring that person into the fold of SoFi.

So I assume like the primary customer acquisition channel will be people that are using our products today. And then after that, like do you roll out a broader marketing strategy? Like how do you go about getting customers?

Yes. I think this product will actually appeal equally to non SoFi members as SoFi members. So when I say tip of the sword, this will be a primary SoFi first product for a lot of people. That maybe didn't understand what SoFi does or even though we spend nearly $1 billion of marketing, our unaided brand awareness is roughly 10%. So that means when you ask 100 people when you need a financial services product named 3 companies, you don't give them any names. 10 out of 100 people would have mentioned SoFi. That means 90 out of 100 people wouldn't put us in their top 3 or even now to put us in our country. So we have a huge opportunity to grow that unaided brand awareness. We think it needs to get to 30% for us to achieve super scale and be on our way to a $1 trillion company. We have to do much more than that, obviously. So this is a product that will help introduce people for the product that are in that 90.

And how do you educate the customers on your products?

Yes. SoFi Pay is a really easy telegraphic thing to communicate as opposed to SoFi Money, which may not be that obvious or SoFi Investment may not be that obvious. So there's a lot of different ways to market the product. Our goal is to have it available through partners as a way to pay in that moment and to use it to switch the way they pay and give them economic incentives, both the merchant and the consumer to do that. But we'll also market it from an acquisition vehicle in other ways. So for SoFi Pay and get X reward points or sign up for SoFi Pay and get X back when you pay. Referrals is another example.

Got it. So you rolled out crypto trading capabilities today with SoFi crypto. What will differentiate your product? And what kind of expectations do you have for it?

Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than good. I never imagine a day that the OCC would say that a national bank, and there's different types of charters, we have the best charter in my mind. We're not a trust bank. We're the first national bank that is offering crypto trading in the United States. And I think we'll be the only 1 for a short period of time, but we'll continue to differentiate. When we launched SoFi Invest back in 2019, we launched with cryptocurrency to build and invest in it. And then in 2023, we were forced to close it down because it was deemed as not permissible by the Fed in a bank holding company. March 7 of this year, the OCC came out with an interpretive letter that said crypto trading or investing, not in those exact words, was permissible by banks. And we ran as fast as we could reintroduce the product but it's even -- it's way better than it was before, and here's why. We have to invest a significant amount of money in the infrastructure, in the processes, in the people and the technology to ensure that we safeguard people's money. We have a huge responsibility for safety and soundness. It's governed by the OCC. It's governed by the Fed and the bank holding company. And people want to know that what they do is safe. They want to know they can trust their partner with. Well, having a national bank license telegraph significantly the amount of safeguards that are in place for people with cryptocurrency. And so we know there's a growing interest in cryptocurrency or digital assets. What people are worried about is, are they going to get hurt by a company going out of business? Are they going to get scammed. And so having that sale of approval as a bank is super helpful. So all the things that we do to build the rest of our businesses have gone into SoFi crypto. One additional benefit compared to others that we'll compete with is you do not have to put your money in one of these wallets, but you don't know where it sits. You don't know if it's insured, you don't know if you're being hacked. It actually is going to sit in your SoFi Money account. So if you want to buy Bitcoin, you transfer money into a SoFi Money account, which is checking and savings. You can earn interest with that money sitting there. You could pay any way you want. You don't have to use it on crypto, but the second you put in an order for Bitcoin and it executes we would draw the money from that account. We put into the marketplace to the third parties, and we execute it for you. You don't have to fund the crypto account. So all you're really doing is signing up for the ability to buy, sell or hold crypto and you're getting the benefits of this great checking savings account that gives you 3.8% interest allows you to pay any way you want, not keep your money locked up. One of the challenges with crypto accounts and wallets is that your money is kind of siloed. You have to remember, I have $5,000 there that I haven't invested yet. I want to move it someplace right now. It's not so easy. If it's sitting in SoFi Money, you can send it all the ways I just mentioned instantly.

Got it. So it sounds like you have a big ambitions about building this platform and ecosystem. And you want to offer a lot of different products. Like how quickly do you think you can get there?

Well, I mean, it's not -- I mean, we built a SoFi crypto buy sell and hold technology -- we were able to buy some technology that was in a company that had gone out of business that was proven and scalable. So we've gotten there pretty quickly from March. We're going to do institutional buy, sell and hold as well. So that's around the corner. I mentioned SoFi USD by January, hopefully sooner, and our team is listening and knows that I'm telling everyone hopefully sooner. I think it will be a very short walk to the rest of the products. We can move very fast. We have a great engineering product and design team. We have a great business unit leader for our crypto ambitions. And we believe first to market matters a lot. It's not the only factor, but getting there first and building trust before someone screws it up is pretty critical.

So do you feel like you might be behind some of the nonbank competitors given I mean, as a regulated entity?

What I'd say is they're already doing billions and billions of dollars of trading. So it would be misleading if I didn't say we're behind. Like we just started trading today for the first time in 2 years. So they have more volume than us. They have more customers than us. They have more years of experience than us. We will absolutely kick their buts because we are a national bank. We'll provide a level of safety and soundness that they'll only desire to do, and they'll never get there without the investment. They won't make the investment unless they have to do it from a regulatory standpoint. And I don't think they have the intestinal fortitude to climb the mountain that we've climbed that are now on the other side of to get that bank license. And it's not just about technology and KYC and AML and BSA and all these other buzzwords. It's about liquidity. It's about quality of assets. It's about the management team, quality of earnings and vibrancy in tough times. Having to survive the fallout of First Republic, Silicon Valley Bank, Signature Bank as a technology financial services company that's in those similar markets is a true testament to how battle-tested our technology is, our processes and our safeguards. So I think it's a huge advantage and allows us to differentiate in the marketplace. And because we've done that investment, I think we can move faster and safer.

So you described crypto as a super cycle. AI is obviously another one. How are you incorporating AI into your processes at SoFi?

We have over 40 proof of concepts going on at the company currently. If you'd asked me that question, September of 2024, I don't think I could have really made an argument for more than a handful of proof of concepts. Here's the different ways we're using it. We're using it to remediate account takeovers faster. So we automate that process now. We're using AI to basically remediate account takeovers faster. We're now implementing that into restrictions -- account restrictions. We're actually doing the same thing with disputes and resolving disputes faster and quicker. It not only makes a great member experience or improved member experience. It lowers cost, provides better accuracy. I call that defensive. There's one thing that we talk about internally that's not that broadly talked about in the investment community, which is second order effects. If you launch a product that's the best of checking and savings you want like SoFi Money, first order effects as you grow that to 6 million, 7 million members, $32 billion of deposits, x billion dollars of transactions. But what you also grow on a second order basis is disputes, account takeovers, fraud, all those different issues. And so up until 2024, no company in the sort of ecosystem of Silicon Valley technology investment was focused on solving second order effects. There are now companies that exist just to solve account takeovers, just their resolve disputes just to provide protections on transactions and authorizations. And so that's super exciting. And we'll make the experience better, and we'll move more transactions digitally from physical. The second area is offensive. And so in our app right now, you can click on Cash Coach. Cash Coach will look at the cash you have in all of your accounts, you have to connect those accounts to us or if you have them all with SoFi. And we got cash in all your accounts and look at all your spending and we'll try to predict how much excess cash you'll have and how to optimize its location. You may have a credit card balance that's only $1,000, but you're paying 25% interest on it, pay down your credit card and basically pay yourself 25% interest by paying it down. You may have $10,000 sitting in a checking account bearing no interest, and you can simply move it to SoFi Money and get 3.8%. You may have a credit card that's maxed out and it's playing 25% interest, and we can refinance you at 12% through an unsecured personal loan. So Cash Coach is giving you options to optimize your cash. There's something that we have a launch that we're working at right now called Coach overall. And we make fun of these things internally. I see T-shirts with my face on it and hats so they make me smile. And hopefully, they make other people smile when coach helps you get your money right. But Coach is really meant to be like the equivalent of a chat GPT for you at SoFi. So for example, my credit card was run up to $6,000. I just paid it off about 8 days ago and like, I didn't spend $6,000 on anything. I went in and clicked on Coach. I said, please give me a list of every transaction that's happened on my SoFi credit card since I paid the bill off x days ago, 10 seconds, it has every transaction. Please aggregate them by merchant. And all of a sudden, I'm like, holy cow, my family is spending a lot of money at DoorDash and on Uber and a lot of money on Apple and we have 4 Netflix accounts. We're the only family in the country that's actually paying for multiple Netflix accounts. But you can ask other things, how do I improve my credit score? How do I lower my cost of debt -- can I refinance my mortgage? Am I diversified enough? How may I change my risk profile. And so that's something that will come out later and will be something that's unique to SoFi because we have all this data on you, but we also have all this data on other people, and we can train models based on that data. And so being a one-stop shop, all of a sudden becomes a differentiator on usable data to help you get your money right. In the end, we want that product to proactively answer for you the 3 questions every day. What must you do in your financial life that day to get your money right? What should you do and what could you do?

So it sounds like you're using AI for better engagement for cross-selling other products. Is there a cost savings component.

There's definitely cost savings on dispute resolution, account takeovers, fraud restrictions, -- but there's also a cost savings, in my mind, by personalizing experiences to help people get to the point they need something quicker and faster, and that's going to help on customer acquisition costs. We are using it for marketing and making our ads have higher click-through rates, better conversion, and that drives customer acquisition costs down as well. So it's really proliferating the entire company in every area and 40 proofs of concepts are not it's not easy to do, but there's that much opportunity and we can do these things on small individual tasks or big offensive opportunities.

Perfect. Maybe you could switch gears and just talk about the health of the consumer because there's just a lot of different data points we're getting around that. And -- it sounds like they're mixed. So I'm just curious sort of what you're seeing inside your portfolio. There's a lot of chatter about student debt and students. So maybe just filter through all of the different demographics as well.

Sure. So first, the level set, we go after a higher than mainstream customers. So $100,000 income or higher. Our average FICO scores for our personal loans and student loans are in the 750 range, so higher income, higher credit. That doesn't mean we don't have a lot of people below that in check and savings account or invest. We do -- but generally, that's the target audience that we go after from a credit standpoint. We've seen very strong performance of credit. We announced our quarter, I think, 12 days ago. It's only been 12 days. We haven't seen a change in credit, you can imagine. And it's performed really well, and it's improved meaningfully over the last 2 years. Now a lot of that is because we're doing a good job of underwriting. But it's us -- but we're doing -- we're seeing credit performance improve while significantly increasing our originations. Last quarter, we were up to about $9 billion in total originations, $7 billion of unsecured personal loans, at least to do like $3 billion or $4 billion. And so when you grow that type of amount of originations, you could potentially see some decay in credit performance that we haven't. We haven't changed our credit box. And so within the credit box even at higher volume, we've seen consistent performance. The other 2 things we look at are spending on a point-of-sale standpoint, which is very strong. And then, of course, investing and we're seeing really strong engagement on the investment side. So we're not really seeing any deterioration in the consumer at all. The things I always focus on beyond our own data is what's going on with employment. And I've said before until unemployment gets above 5%, I'd even say slightly higher than that 5.25%, I don't worry about the economy. The things I do worry about that are not related to the consumer because we haven't seen that deterioration is what's going on with liquidity, what's going on with credit more broadly. And so when I hear things about credit deteriorating in other places, I pay attention, and we try to follow a number of leading indicators. So it's not like we're oblivious to it. We're just not seeing it translate to us nor the upstream effects of whoever is having challenges with credit. And similarly, we're looking at credit card spend. It's obviously great to have partnerships with Visa, Mastercard, may provide a lot of healthy information that we look at. The thing in the past that I think has caught people by surprise in environments like we're in as liquidity issues, but rates are going down and quantitative tightening is ending. And so liquidity really shouldn't be an issue, although you got to look for those canaries in the coal mine, but we haven't heard or seen anything like that yet.

Are student loans that?

Student loans have done -- so for those that don't know, we do 2 types of student loans. One is someone has an existing federal student loan, and it's at a certain rate their credit score is meaningfully better than the average credit score that determines that rate when they graduated, and we help refinance them at a lower rate because their credit is better than what the rate is. They may have a 7% rate, we can refinance them at 5% sort of like a mortgage when mortgage rates go down. So that product has slowly been getting back to a normalized level. I think last quarter, we did just under $1 billion, and it's doing fine. We're not seeing any meaningful change in that business. The other business that we do in student loans is actually in-school loans that we've slowly been building over the last 8 years. One win behind the back of that business is the government's decision and I don't think it's finalized to stop funding graduate school loans or grad Plus loans, so medical school, law school, business school, and so that will have to come from the private sector. We're happy to provide that financing for people that are qualified. It's actually even more attractive loan than our student loan and financing. Rates are meaningfully higher, almost 30% to 40% higher. Credit performance is actually as good as the student loan refinancing. And so it's almost 30% higher interest charged without a higher loss rate and the funding costs are very similar. So that would be a very nice business to add to SoFi. I'll give you a fun fact that we mentioned on our earnings call, we expect in the fourth quarter to generate more revenue in our home loans business than revenue we generate in our student loan refinancing business which is a remarkable stat when you think about it that we didn't have a home loans business in 2019, we closed it down and student loan refinancing was the first business the company was founded on. Many people think that's the only product we still have. But it's nothing negative about student loan financing. It just shows you how far we've diversified the business away from capital intensity and a loan book that's unsecured.

And so for that grab plus opportunity, when and if it arises, like how do you intend to go after it?

We have a sales team that's been calling on universities for the last, I think, 6 years, it's led by a great general manager and they're out selling to those universities to get qualified to be a lender for the graduate students.

Got it. So you guys feel like you're in a good position there to...

I think we're in a great position. The best position to be is one of the largest companies in your industry don't even offer the product.

And it's very reliable that banks don't offer a lot of the products that people need. So maybe you could just talk a little bit while we're on the topic, student loan refi and the current addressable market for that and how it fits into the broader SoFi picture?

Yes. I don't want to downplay -- it's an awesome product, the members that we have at SoFi that, that's their first product or a good product or great members. They do many other products for us. It's just not going to scale the way the rest of the business is scaling. Home loans is going to be a much, much bigger business. I mean it already is and the rates are still relatively high. Personal loans, I think, can be -- continue to grow meaningfully. We're attacking the credit card industry. Basically, you don't realize this to you get into the nitty-gritty of it, but here's the deep dark secret about credit cards. It's rooting the financial fabric of our country. It's rooting the financial fabric of our country. And I wish we could do more to educate Americans that these large banks are offering these premium credit cards with huge rewards. In fact, last night in my TV in my hotel room, it said, sign up for x card 125,000 bonus points. Someone is going to get addicted to those bonus points, and they're going to start spending not thinking about whether they can make the full payment at the end of the month to get to more reward points to get a free airline ticket. The fact that they're actually paying 25% interest on that $1,000 balance that they're not worried about paying off is offsetting any savings they have on the reward points. And so it's almost like a dichotomy in that banks are supposed to help you, but they're giving you these reward points as a drug that you keep chasing, not realizing you're building this balance that you're not going to pay off maybe it's first $500 that you don't pay off, then it's $1,000, then it's $2,000. You're getting charged 20% to 25% interest. Like who realizes they're paying that amount of interest. And if you go back and look I'm pretty confident there are people in this room that have not paid off their entire balance every month in their lives. And so we're going after that audience and refinancing them from 25% down to 12%. And the great thing about that personal loan that refinanced them off of that 25% is there's no prepayment penalties, you could pay it just as much as you used to pay and pay it off twice as fast. You could actually refinance if rates go down again without a prepayment penalty, without any additional fees. So it's a great product. So home loans and personal loans are going to be meaningfully greater than student loan refinancing, but it's a good acquisition to find great customers.

Great. So let's shift gears. LPB has been a great driver of fee revenue. it's provided diversification to your revenue base. What do you see as the long-term opportunity for that business?

I think it's pretty significant. We -- there's 2 elements to this. One is what's the volume of loans that we can generate through our marketing engine, through our underwriting engine, our credit engine and service? And what's the volume of loans we want to put on our balance sheet. And the answer to that question is that the amount we can generate is meaningfully greater than what we actually want to underwrite and keep on our balance sheet or even want to sell. And so we can help be an origination engine for all of these dollars out there that have to buy assets at insurance companies and asset managers, et cetera. So I think it will continue to be a pretty big opportunity. The area that's new and different that we have less experience in is we turned down 70% of the applicants for unsecured personal loans at SoFi, 70%. We believe that the cohort of near prime applicants that we don't approve will be equally attractive. We have to build some history on that credit performance, but we think it will be equally as attractive. I think Chris has said it on the call, it's there's $100 billion of declined loans on our platform. We don't think all $100 billion are loans that people would want. But there's probably 25% of it that near-prime lenders would love to have, and we're just not in that business. And so that would be an additional driver of the loan platform business.

And so are your LPV partners still active? Or are you speaking with new potential partners?

Both. We have a bunch of repeat customers that have had made annual commitments. They've renewed those annual commitments. They've upped the amount they're doing. We do have people that do an annual commitment and then intra-quarter, they come in and ask for more. We're in dozens of conversations with new partners. And so we're hiring if you go on our website and look at capital markets. We're hiring a lot of capital markets people. The capital markets people call on the asset managers and help get those deals done, and we have more inbound interest than we have, we call them capital markets, but essentially salespeople. So we're hiring quite meaningfully to help meet the demand of what's coming in.

And so this is a question I have, just like where is all this growth coming from? Is it coming from people refinancing their credit card loans as you sort of described? Or do you think it's people levering up more than they did before? Like how would you...

It's people refinancing their credit cards. So we asked the question. We're very cognizant that someone may refinance their credit card debt down and then run their credit card bill back up and one way to eliminate credit issues is identifying that. Loan stocking is another thing that we have to identify. By the way, AI does -- we don't use AI to predict cash flow because it's a knowable thing. So if you want money from us, give us the things that tell us what your cash flow is, if you don't want money from us, don't answer the questions. But we shouldn't use AI to predict cash flow. We actually -- it's a knowable thing we should underwrite to knowable things. But we can use AI as a way to detect first-party fraud, people loan stacking and other behaviors that increase the credit risk of that person post us refinancing them. But the real addressable market is the credit card trillion dollar-plus market.

Got it. Maybe we could shift gears and talk about Home Lending. You kind of touched on it a little bit. Maybe you talked about the opportunity.

I just think it's the most important economic and emotional decision people will make in their lives. When they buy a home, and we need to be there. It's a hard business to make money on. We're finally at that point that we're making money on it, and it's growing very nicely. When rates come down, I think we're in a great position to refinance our members' mortgages for our members that have mortgages, only 2% of them have them have it through SoFi. So there's a huge opportunity from our existing members in refinancing their home loans as rates come down and purchase will be a big opportunity as well, and we're prepared for that.

And like the origination channel, is this direct?

We -- just everything else we do, we do direct mail, digital, performance marketing, television, pretty much all the channels you'd imagine, radio, et cetera.

Got it. Can we talk about like rate cuts and how it impacts NII for you guys?

So rate increases, rate cuts, we're able to make adjustments in what we're doing to maintain net interest income and interest margin, we're managing to returns. And so -- we have pretty good data and analytics and testing capabilities to maintain the right types of spreads relative to the risk that we're taking. Declining rate environment is a hell of a lot better than a rising rate environment. And so I'd be super excited to see rates come down in another 100. I think another 100 basis points would be gangbusters for student loan refinancing for personal loans. I also think -- the home loan business would benefit meaningfully 200 basis points would be really significant. Our investments will also benefit as rates come down because people will make less on savings.

Cool. Could we talk about the tech platform business, when we'll see the benefit from new contracts coming online?

Yes. We provided a perspective on the tech platform business that our transition strategically to large banks and to installed bases. I mean 2 things happened. One, large consumer businesses that have installed bases that want to be in financial services, that has done incredibly well. We've signed United and launched that T-Mobile shift their portfolio over to us. We announced Southwest Airlines and Wyndham, and those are all launched. So we're making really good traction there. Large financial institutions have been slower to make decisions and quite frankly, with the change in administration, I think all the demand for large financial institutions to upgrade their technology is gone because they're not getting the pressure to do it. But there's a lot of other products and services that we can offer those 2 channels. And we said we'd give an outlook for 2026 once we get there to kind of bring it all together because there's just a lot in flux. The biggest benefit of our technology platform business doesn't show up in the P&L, and that's the ability to build infrastructure technology for SoFi. The innovation that you see in our app and on our website and driving this growth, it's a direct result of owning that technology platform, not to mention it's just a very good business in terms of the revenue it has and the marginal profitability it has. And so everything we want to do in crypto, we want our technology platform team to build for us and to build for other people. And that technology is not something that's replacing stuff at banks. If you look at regional banks or large banks, they don't have crypto trading technology. They don't have secured lending capabilities. They don't have stablecoins. And so as we build all these technologies for SoFi, in digital assets and in blockchain, we are going to provide those services to others, and that will be a much bigger opportunity then, say, converting a big financial institution is core because they're not replacing something and it's added, which is a much easier decision for them.

Got it. So we have a couple of minutes left. I figured if there's any questions from the audience, I will take them. If anyone has any, otherwise, I got 1 or 2 more. Questions?

Regional banks and other banks they don't have an infrastructure today. What do you think is needed for them to see from, say for example safety.

Yes. So this is a commercial to all of them and to all of you that are investors to tell them, we want them to use SoFi USD. And here's why they so use SoFi USD versus any other stablecoin. We are a national charter bank. We are a bank holding company. We have access to the Fed window Fed bank accounts. And so when someone gives you $1 for a stablecoin, that dollar is supposed to be put into reserves. We are going to put that dollar at our Fed bank account. What does that mean? Others will put it at in T-bills or treasury bonds, et cetera. They all have duration risk. They'll have liquidity risk. And even though we don't like to admit it, they also have credit risk. But when you put the dollar into the Fed bank account, it has 0 credit risk. It has 0 liquidity risk, and it will be bankruptcy remote. And so -- and it doesn't have duration risk. And so my pitch to everyone is we're going to build the technology in our tech platform business. You could wrap our SoFi USD coin with your own name. We'll do all the minting, all the burning. We'll do all the treasury work. We will give you Fed funds, which we get by putting in the Fed funds without the credit risk, without the duration risk and without the liquidity risk. And we think that's a product that every regional bank, every large GSIP should use, and they shouldn't start other companies that then have to apply for a license and then have to prove they can do this. We're a bank, we're already in third-party technology services. And we're going to ensure that it has phenomenal distribution because we're going to give it to our consumers. We're going to give it to the people who do the 8 billion transactions to our technology platform, the ACH and debit and it will have a lot of distribution through those different points, which is critical for a stablecoin. And we'll do it in all the necessary currencies outside the U.S.

There's one over there. Do you have to convert it to Fiat to do that?

We will have to provide stablecoins in non-U.S. dollars. So it will just be a different smart contract and a different treasury method.

Yes, you launched crypto trading this morning. You're charging 100 basis point flat fee buy and sell, if I'm correct, I think what it says. Right now, across the spectrum, we're seeing the cost ranges from 5 basis points to 4%. So first off, do you think being at 100 basis points, is a relative advantage? Or do you think that's less of a factor of drawing interactions versus, say, a coin base that's charging 200 basis points.

No. I mean we want to make it cheaper, faster and safer for people to do anything with us. So we'll be competitive on price. That's an initial point of view. We'll see how things go. If we can lower it, we'll lower it. We like to say that there's only a few competitive advantages in life. Amazon and Walmart's competitive advantage, they are a low-cost operators. So they provide the best prices, best selection, best service. I believe we have the best unit economics, best lifetime value, so we can provide the best prices, the best services and the best selection. And so we'll compete our butts off to get that to be very competitive. Just turn the volume up a little bit.

Just long-term, where do you think that is going? Are we going to -- it's going to follow the same long range as equities and...

It's really hard for me to predict where it's going, but I know this will be incredibly competitive and have the economics to be more competitive than other people to have a competitive advantage on price.

We are out of time. Thank you so much, Anthony. Appreciate it.

Thank you.