SoFi Technologies, Inc. ($SOFI)

Good afternoon. I'm Rick Shane with the JPMorgan Consumer Finance team. Thank you for joining us. I have the pleasure today of welcoming SoFi CEO, Anthony Noto. While he has been the CEO since 2018, I think that, that really sort of just a little bit of what you've done along the way, served in the military, worked at the NFL, was a technology executive in another company and then joined the company in 2018.

In the time that you've been there, you've really led the transformation from a company that was focused on student loan refinance to a full platform of consumer financial services, most recently adding blockchain and crypto to the platform or a bank now. So it's been a really exciting, I guess, 8 years at length. Tell us a little bit about sort of what you guys have done and where you see yourselves had it?

Sure. Now that we are able to offer crypto again, which we're doing in buy sell and hold 30 different coins and have launched our own stable coin payment stable coin called SoFi USD. We've now kind of transitioned from a one-stop shop to what we like to call as a digital financial everything app. And the reason why we've made that transition is that we've reached incredible scale, 15 million members, 22 million products. We're growing at a really high rate. We grew revenue last quarter at 41%, following 35% growth in 2025 and over 35% CAGR over the last 5 years. And it really reflects just the breadth of our offering. Our mission is to help people achieve financial independence, which means they reached the point in time where they have enough money to live their dream, whatever that dream may be, the size family they may want to have, the career they we want to have, where they want to live, the size of home they want, when they want to retire. And the only way to really deliver on that mission is to help them borrow better, save better, spend better, invest better and protect better. So you need this broad swath of products and hence, the concept of the digital financial services, everything app. I'm very proud of the fact that we've gotten to the point where 85% of our products are non-lending products. Lending products are really critical. In fact, they drive the highest revenue per product, and that helps us drive our competitive advantage in that we have the best lifetime value, the best unit economics, which allows us to give value back in all the other products that we have in better interest rates on checking and savings lower interest rates on loans, more affordable credit cards, things like smart card, but then to do even more and allow people to elevate above that into something like SoFi Plus and soon to be launched subscription cancellation in addition to other bells and whistles like using AI-driven engines to build portfolios. And so we're at the point in time where we're really starting to see the formula work. What is the formula. We want to teach people to spend less than they make and invest the rest. 70% of the members that we have in SoFi, which is over 3 million products now are from existing members. So we're helping people get to that point where they spend less than they make and now they're investing with us and they're using our products in a bigger and better way. We recently and SoFi Plus relaunched on April 1 and have been amazed with the progress we've made so far in that. So it's a long way since 2018 when we had 600,000 members and $250 million of revenue to 15 million members now and over $3.5 billion of revenue last year and well our way in 2026.

Interesting. And what you said just resonates with me. We spend a lot of time trying to explain consumer behavior. And I would describe that Wall Street's not somewhat, but pejorative explanation of a lot of consumer behaviors, consumers are stupid. And our explanation has always been that consumers are rational, but undisciplined that they make smart final decisions, but then end up spending too much money. And it sounds in a lot of ways like that's the foundation of what you're trying to address as well. They are -- you're helping them in terms of price discovery, in terms of transparency, make good decisions and then actually hopefully change their behaviors a little bit.

Yes. I'd chalk it up to a few different things. One is education, a second is accessibility and then the third is in motion. When I think about education, I get an e-mail from a potential member, a mother of a daughter. The mother tried to cosign for a loan. And for some reason, we didn't improve the loan. We have hence approved the loan. But in the e-mail, she's basically saying, my daughter is trying to do the right thing and pay off for loans, she has an incredible burden, $230,000 of student loan debt, and she's going to be a teacher. Why university would ever let someone take out $230,000 of debt. It's very admirably the teacher. It's the lifeblood of our country. builds a foundation of our children. Our children spend more time with teachers than they do with their parents in their lifetime, quite frankly. And here's this woman who's graduated from college, which is a big accomplishment, and she's burdened with $230,000 of student loan debt on a salary that's probably $60,000. Like that's an educational problem, and she'll never get out of that hole. We can help her get out of that hole, but she's going to need a lot more help than that. There's an access problem and what does that mean? People think they have to have access to wealth advisers to invest in the stock market to invest at all. And so it's shocking to me that my 2 brothers, my wife, they didn't buy their first stock until after I joined SoFi, and it wasn't so far stock. We made investing more access them. We educated them. We gave them products that were easy to use, we pioneered fractional shares. You may want to buy what you like, like Peter Lynch often articulated. But if Amazon is $2,000, you can't buy Amazon unless you're willing to lose $2,000 on 1 stock, but you can buy $1 of Amazon at so far. You can buy $1 of Tesla. In fact, you could take $10 and buy 10 different stocks at $1 per stock. We also launched a couple of ETFs at $10 a piece that were S&P 500 look like ETFs that have done pretty well. And so if you try to buy a different ETF that was S&P 500 ETF back at that time, the lowest price point was like $250. Well, I'm comfortable spending $10 on something I don't know. It's basically breakfast out of the house, coffee and maybe a breakfast sandwich. Why would you feel comfortable spending $250 on this thing called an S&P 500 that you've never researched. But you're more comfortable spending $10 on it. So we made diversification [indiscernible] more successful. We've made IPOs more successful. Private equity more successful. We've done a couple of SpaceX offerings, so private investment is more successful. And then emotion. It's hard to tell your children no. it's Christmas or holiday or their birthday, and you want them to be happy. And so you charge something or something breaks unexpectedly and emotionally, you need to get it fixed, whatever it may be. And so it's the combination of education, accessibility and emotion that puts people in a financial hole and we want to teach them not to start in that hole to begin with $230,000, not to buy a house that's their wife Dream House, if you can't actually invest and save for retirement. Just being able to save allows you to stay in business, so to speak, but it doesn't allow you to get ahead. It allows you to keep up. And so we have to teach people how to invest. And we believe we have the products, and we're now in that formula, and I'm excited about the things we'll be launching this year to take it to the next level.

That's great. And I really, again, given my framework, I really appreciate what you're describing, and it really does resonate with me. Look, one of the big conformations, I mean, there have been so many here a bank now. And again, context here, I've been a financial services analyst for 25 years. I covered this space for a long time. I have been following SoFi for about 3 months still getting up to speed. So bear with me as I feel my way through this with you guys. And if my questions are a little off, I'm still getting there. But one of the big transformations that we've seen is the expansion of your loan platform business. I think you guys did $13 billion in originations, you're on path on a runway close to $1 billion of revenues. How big is that opportunity? And now I think originally, these were loans that you were seeing that you didn't necessarily want to put on your balance sheet. But as you're seeing the benefits of capital light originations. How do you see that platform going forward?

Yes, we developed a loan platform business, LPB, as we affectionately call it, to capture the opportunity that we couldn't capture at that moment in time. There could be several reasons for us not capturing the opportunity. First, we declined about 70% of the applicants for personal loans, and that's typically for credit reasons. Second, we can drive more demand than we have originated in personal loans over time. If you go back in time, you'll see that we're originating $2 billion of personal loans in a quarter a couple of years ago, and it slowly has increased. What we found was the more we marketed, the more originations we could drive at affordable price. But there comes a point like in 2024, where higher for longer was a risk, and I didn't feel comfortable underwriting everything that we could. So at the time we came up with this idea of called it controlled volume business, which then became the loan platform business. We went to managers of assets, people that had capital to put to work and ask them what credit profile they wanted, what return profile they wanted. And then we negotiated with them to create loans for them by tapping into that origination volume that we didn't want to put on our balance sheet from a [indiscernible] standpoint. There's also volume that we don't want to put on our balance sheet from a credit standpoint as well. And so that's how the loan platform business was born. It's achieved incredible success. We're tapping into more and more originations. We're making people that have high credit card debt, more aware that they can move out of 26% interest or 25% interest into 12% interest, amortizing down over a number of years. and really cut their cost of borrowing quite meaningfully, which then gives them more freedom to invest or save and do other things. So that's what drove the business. I think people were disappointed to see our loan platform business revenue down sequentially. What I would tell you is we had more demand for the loan platform business in terms of loans people wanted and to pay us fees then we could produce for them. We look at our business holistically. One of the reasons we've been able to drive diversified growth is that we're not just looking at this quarter to the next. We're looking out 4 to 8 quarters. We're looking at where each business will be. We're allocating capital against those businesses that get us to that 30% compound annual growth that we want to have in revenue and higher in profit over time. and we're allocating our resources. So the way we think about the balance sheet and the loan platform business is we want to make sure that we've set our company up to deliver 30% compounding growth for as long as we can in revenue, so through 2027, which means we do need net interest income during that time period. In this most recent quarter, we announced $690 million of cash net interest income if you just actually look at the interest income line adds up to that, so it's not a surprise. That will need to amortize down over time, both because people pay off their loans, and we have to replenish it with balance sheet. So we allocated to our balance sheet, what would give us good visibility of that nice revenue stream over time. The rest we allocated to the loan platform business. If we originated more that we've gone to the loan platform business and it would have been bigger. The reason why Q3 and Q4 accelerated so much last year versus Q2 is we not only fulfilled our contractual minimums, but we're able to satisfy some in-quarter demand that our partners wanted by spending more in marketing and getting there. And if we hadn't delivered more than a contractual minimum, you probably would have seen a nice linear growth rate from Q2 of 2025 to Q3 of '25 to Q4 of '25 and then linear in Q1 of '26, but our partners wanted the assets. We were able to produce them at a fair price, and we took advantage of that opportunity. This year is going to be a more balancing act between the balance sheet and LPB. One, because we have more capital to, we're looking out over the next 8 quarters, not the last 4 quarters.

Okay. And I hope I quote you fairly and warmly. But you've described a crypto super cycle that will transform financial services. You talked about adding crypto to your platform that your clients can now store 30 different crypto currencies on the platform you've launched a stable point. When you look at crypto, are you seeing this -- how do you see this rolling out? Is this -- are you offering a speculative tool for your customers a way for them to invest? Or is there a practical day-to-day usage that you're envisioning, like what makes this is transformational other than it's just new and different?

Sure. There's 4 distinct revenue streams that will generate revenue on over the course of the next 12 months and beyond. There's big business banking, SoFi USD, stable coin, there's crypto investing to buy sell and hold and the he's crypto borrowing secured borrowing. So let me talk about all 3. First, SoFi USD. I couldn't be more excited about the prospects of what SoFi USD brings to the table. It's a stable coin we just started minting at the end of 2025. You will see it show up in the app in the course of the next couple of weeks. It is both going to be an enterprise product and a consumer product, and let me walk through both. First, we're already in the business of moving money. We do 8 billion transactions a year via Gales, debit and ACH processing. We would like all of those 8 billion transactions to occur with SoFi USD, and we think we can actually grow the amount of transactions with SoFi USD. Think about SoFi USD as a payment capability that also has a stored value and that we'll make money on that store value based on the net interest income it generates from its sitting in our Fed master account earning Fed funds without liquidity risk, without credit risk and without duration risk, unlike any other stablecoin issuer to date. That has to go out and buy treasuries and ask to buy securities to generate a yield. So SoFi USD will become a payment mechanism in our SoFi technology service for that also become a new payment mechanism that allows us to sign new deals with partners. So we signed a deal and announced the deal with MasterCard, where they're going to use SoFi USD to do 24/7 settlement. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Today, they do 5 days a week settlement, and it's not 24 hours. This will be a huge value to them and their merchants, and this will be a payment mechanism that uses the rails that SoFi USD rides on. And the capital will sit again dollar for dollar backed in our Fed master account earning Fed funds. We have other partners that will also use SoFi USD. So when we launched our trading business for buy sell and hold different crypto tokens, we are partnering with exchanges and market makers. Those exchange as market makers do not pass out back and forth. They pass stable coins back and forth. We will use SoFi USD with all intermediaries. Big business banking. We're launching big business banking, not because it was my bright idea. In fact, this was something that was built by somebody else and went away. As we were talking to all the intermediaries in the crypto universe, they all asked us to build bank accounts for them because we uniquely at SoFi, could operate in both Fiat as a national bank and cryptocurrency as a national bank. And so we've launched this product. On July 1, we'll launch it with APIs. So it's completely agentic if you want it to be a entice and we can operate in both FIA and crypto and help all of these businesses that are crypto-centric do banking more efficiently in a more automated way, 24/7. We'll also offer these same services to any other company that needs to operate in stable coins or crypto. It could be Amazon, it could be Apple, it could be Bookings.com. They're all potential clients for us. We will make money again on the stored value in SoFi USD in the NIM or an interest income in addition to the fact that big business banking will have a subscription fee, it will have payment fees and all the bells and whistles of being a bank for large companies. and I'm super excited about that because the underlying value of that, that fuel that will be SoFi USD. And then on the consumer side, we will uniquely offer a product that allows people to buy SoFi USD, and they will get FDIC insurance and they'll get interest. When we launched SoFi USD in the SoFi app, it will say coming soon. The coming soon piece will be [indiscernible] when we create a tokenized deposit and SoFi payment coin in one, just like we have today in a SoFi banking account that has a same account and a checking account. So today, if you put your money into your signs account and you do direct deposit with us, you get 3.8% interest when you want to pay with that money, we move it out of the savings account into the checking account and then we send it via the debit rails. We'll do the exact same thing with SoFi USD. You'll put money into an account that is a trial noncustodial wallet that will give you interest. That will give you FDIC insurance. It will sit with inside SoFi Bank. When you want to pay, you lose the FDIC insurance, you lose the interest rate on the tokenized deposits and a stable coin will be minted and transferred. That will help us build an asset base in SoFi USD and at some point, become a point of purchase mechanism if people want to pay in that way in addition to using it for international remittance and other forms. So SoFi USD, my hope is this is worth billions of dollars of volume over time, and we're generating 1% to 2% of net interest income. So that -- and the big business banking and crypto trading are 3 of the businesses. The fourth is as we build up an asset base under investing, we'll give people secured loans against those assets. And since we're already the lender, this will be very attractive because today, we do no secured lending other than a home equity line or HELOC.

Okay. I want to think about the use case here for one second just to make sure I understand it. So you talk about the consumer crypto business. My daughter sets up an account. She uses her account, her SoFi USD account for her savings. She transfers money to her checking and she owes me $100. Can she pay old fuddy-duddy dad who does not have a SoFi account, the $100 or do I need to enter the ecosystem in some way to be able to participate in a payment with her?

She could. She could do a bank to bank. So if you gave her your routing number and bank account number, she could do it that way. If you have Zelle, she could do it via Zelle. If you have a phone number, she gets sent into a phone number, you'll have to click on that link to then take action to put it into your bank account or preferably except in a SoFi account and become a SoFi member. If you have an e-mail, you can send it to the e-mail, you can click on that e-mail, put in your routing number and your bank account number and we'll go into that account automatically. Or again, hopefully suspends you a referral link for $25, and you sign up for SoFi Money, and it goes into your SoFi account. So one of the things that we benefit from is we own our own technology and SoFi Technology Solutions has 4 strategies, 4 different businesses that's trying to build, one of which is payment hub. The idea of Payment Hub is to have APIs that companies can use in a self-serve way to do any type of payment. So SoFi is benefiting from that investment. So far, they've built self-serve wires. So you can do a wire on SoFi right now, SoFi Money in a matter of 3 minutes to any place in the world, never talking to anyone as safe as any other process. . You can also do Fed now, so instant money transfer and you can do ACH, which I mentioned, you can do debit and they can do person-to-person payment and you can do Zelle. So the SoFi technology team will keep building out the payment hub options to do any type of payment from any source to any destination, stable coins being the next area.

Got it. So it is a walled garden with plenty of gates so that you can go see people on the outside.

I would say it's an open platform with the safety and security of a national bank.

Okay. That's fair enough. Look, it's an interesting time. And this is the world I live in, I'm a credit card analyst, a consumer finance analyst. We have some concerns about what's happening in terms of consumer credit. You've talked about an early warning dashboard that you maintain that would trigger a tightening, can you give us some of the key indicators that you're looking at? And are we starting to see maybe not red flashes, but are you seeing yellow flashes that we should all be thinking about in terms of the consumer?

We look at performance, we look at early warning indicators. We haven't seen a change in the environment at all. Credit is performing as expected. We're still seeing strong performance across the board, in line with our expectations. We provided those results in the quarter, haven't seen changes since then. There's a number of different early warning things. The back of things that I focus on the most or unemployment, inflation and rates. If unemployment gets in the 5-plus percent range and is persistent, that's going to be a real problem. It doesn't seem like that's on the horizon. I know there's a lot of concerns over AI. We haven't seen an impact on AI. At the end of the day, our credit is underwritten on cash flow. The thing that could kill cash flow is losing your job. The other thing that could kill cash flow is taking on other forms of debt that we're not aware of. We do monitor FICO drift. We do monitor other factors to have individual early warning signals. But right now, we're seeing no major issues across the early warning dashboard at a macro level, which looks at unemployment, looks at income levels, looks at debt levels, et cetera. And so we continue to be pretty comfortable in the environment we're operating in. Q1, to me, was a remarkable quarter. If you look at our business, it's really strong across all of the leading indicators. I don't think we've had as much broad-based strength as we did in the quarter in my 8 years with the company and we're not seeing any changes in the quarter. There's always a difference between expectations, et cetera. But we had 41% revenue growth at over $1 billion, and that's $1 billion of cash revenue. We had a really strong profitability. We've grown our tangible book value by 100% since 2023. So it's been a great environment, and we don't really see it changing. The one thing that is more challenging than we anticipated for this year's rates. We came into the year thinking rates would come down at least twice. Now we're factoring in new rate cuts which is why we left our guidance for the full year despite beating where it was. I think if rates do come down unexpected a huge tailwind in student loan refinancing, it's already up 100% on [indiscernible] rate cuts would only accelerate even further. Home loans, people are really dying to be able to refinance their mortgages. Many people had to expel rate mortgages where interest rates are now going up and they need lower rates to refinance at lower levels. our home loan business, fortunately, is growing 100% year-over-year as well, but rate cuts would accelerate in addition to student loan refinancing. And then on a personal loan side, if there's rate cuts, we'll have people refinancing their existing loans. We have a natural hedge in that we're such a large market share of unsecured personal loans and still gaining share from credit card. As rates come down, we could see a tailwind on the personal loan business as well.

Got it. Look, if you go across the consumer continuum, an affluent consumer, they're spending at the pump might be 15 or 20 basis points a month. A lower-income consumer who's using a vehicle as part of their job doesn't have the option of working for home from home, spending in the pump might be close to 10%, a 45% increase in gas prices, which is what we've essentially seen in the last month, if we go back to 2022, we saw that have a pretty immediate impact on consumers in the lower middle part of spectrum. I know that you guys lend higher in the credit continuum, but I am curious how important you think that one inflationary element is?

Our customers have higher income, $100,000 or more in the actual products that we lend, it's closer to $150,000. FICO scores in the 750. So 3% interest versus 2% interest is not a big deal higher gas prices, obviously takes less money out of your pocket. But on a relative basis to the broader portfolio of spending, savings and investing, it hasn't been a factor, and I don't anticipate it being a factor. There are different views on what the right level of sustainable inflation is. I don't think there's a huge difference between 2% and 3%. I think there's a huge difference between 5% and 6% and 2% and 3% for our customers, but we don't see it having an impact.

Great. It's helpful to have you set that context. Look, one of the things that has been another addition to SoFi is SoFi plus and the subscription model. It's about $10 a month. Historically, we have not seen subscription model be super successful within financial services. Can you tell us a little bit about -- and I say that -- and I'm a credit card analyst and you subscribe to premium credit cards. You could argue that there's nothing really different. And what makes premium credit cards a successful subscription is the value that the consumer sees. Can you talk about how your subscription model is rolling out and what the value proposition is for your consumers?

Sure. And I want to put this in context. We're investing right now in 4 businesses that essentially had 0 revenue over the last year or didn't exist over the last years. So I talked about big business banking didn't exist a year ago. I talked about SoFi USD didn't exist a year ago. Crypto buy sell and hold and crypto investing did not exist a year ago. So 4 businesses that could easily be $100 million revenue businesses pretty quickly like the LPB business ramp so quickly. SoFi plus is another one. So we launched SoFi Plus originally in the first quarter of 2025, and we learned a lot in 2025. We learned what didn't work. I think we may have acquired 60,000 paying members during that time period. It was a little confusing. You could get SoFi Plus if you were a direct deposit customer and pay nothing for it or if you paid us $10 a month. We spent the year iterating and iterating and learning and asking questions and challenging ourselves and looking at analytics, and I'm telling you people probably -- when they saw me, they worked the other way, worried I was going to ask them a question about SoFi Plus. . I could not be prouder of the progress that we've made over the last year and the success we've seen in just the first 6 weeks of the quarter. So we relaunched SoFi Plus on April 1. We're over 100,000 new SoFi Plus members, I think, as of yesterday, was about $160,000. That's not a material number relative to 15 million members or even relative to our revenue of over $1 billion. But that's 160,000 people that are going to pay us $10 a month, $120 a year for years to come. SoFi plus is positioned as the best of SoFi. So when you want to use invest, you can just use regular SoFi invest. But as you become a SoFi plus member, you're going to get a better experience, you're going to have better value for us. We've quantified that the value we can create for you, if you do SoFi Plus, is $1,000 or more in a year. Now you have to take advantage of what we're offering you, but that's the opportunity. So if you're a direct deposit member, today, you're getting about 3.8% interest on your SoFi money account. If you become a SoFi Plus member, you get 4.5% interest up to $20,000. If you're sitting at $10,000 deposited and 3.8% and you have another $10,000 sitting someplace else. That all should go into SoFi Plus. You make more money by paying $120 than by doing anything. So what we've seen so far is 90% of the new SoFi plus members are existing members, which is perfect. We want our existing members to do more with SoFi and to give them the best of SoFi. So it's the right target. We're seeing a large percentage of them actually taking out another product after they sign up for SoFi Plus. And that is a great insight. We're actually educating people on what else they could do it, and we're giving them an incentive to do it through SoFi Plus. So it was a direct new revenue stream. If we get to 1 million members, $120 million a year, I'd be super disappointed if 2 years from now, we have at least 1 million members, hopefully, it's sooner. So we get a direct to $120 million. There's a bunch of things that will accrue value beyond the $120 million, i.e., if we get double the deposits from someone that only has $10,000 to $20,000, another revenue stream, not to mention spending and the ability to use those deposits to amortize our loans. But in addition to that, they're taking out another product, and so cross-buying is happening naturally. And so we will continue to put more and more value into SoFi Plus to give people the best of SoFi. I'll give you 2 other examples. We just bought a small business called Composer. Now Composer is an AI-driven portfolio creator. You can go on composer and create your own AI portfolio. Maybe we'll let you do that twice for free. But if you want to do the third or fourth or fifth time or someone the value added, you're going to have to sign up for SoFi plus to get access to it. we've been building subscription cancelization. One of the things you can ask SoFi Coach when it launches to the public is how much did I spend on subscription in the last 30 days. SoFi coach, if you have the accounts all connected, you will see those subscriptions from your credit cards. Eventually, you'll be able to click on that and say, cancel and it will cancel automatically. The first version will be putting in your user name and password. As soon as we start canceling subscriptions for you, maybe after the second and third one, we'll say if you'd like to do a fourth or fifth sign up for SoFi Plus to get unlimited access to subscription cancelization. Again, another way to show how using SoFi's products makes it better together in differentiating that product. I'm super excited about SoFi Plus. I've been amazed about the growth since April 1. I couldn't be proud of the team because it's classic SoFi learn, iterate, learn, iterate and it drives innovation. Now people are trying to create value in SoFi to drive their own business. 15 million members, 160,000 SoFi plus members, you do the math, there's a big opportunity there.

Again, it's early days. Let's pretend it's 2 years from now, and you've reached your 1 million members. And it's $120 a year and there's a $1,000 of cost savings a year, potential. What's the pie chart look of how many people are achieving less than $120 worth of value? How many are achieving $121 to $500? And how many are extracting more than -- what percentage are expecting more than $500.

I would be making up the answers at this point. But here's what I will say. When they take out that third product, it is more valuable to us because we have not paid a customer acquisition cost. We have target customer acquisition costs for all of our products. When people cross buy into those products, that drops to the bottom line. So for example, personal loans and student loans. Those products have roughly a $600 to $800 customer acquisition cost. We make $800 to $1,000 in variable profit after the customer acquisition cost. So illustratively, if someone is not a personal loan borrower that becomes a SoFi Plus member because they have so far checking and savings. They sign up for SoFi Plus and they take out a loan, that loan has a variable profit of $1,600. It literally doubles the variable profit in the LTV of that personal loan. It more than covers the $120. It more than covers the value that we've created in other places. So our competitive advantage is that we have the highest lifetime value and the best unit economics, and they're only getting stronger at the scale that we have. It allows us to give people better interest rates on checking savings, lower interest rates on loans and more valuable services like subscription cancelizations like Coach, which will launch next year like Composer.

Got it. Look, you could talk about this all day. I could ask you questions until the last person kind of water shell out of the room. But in 2 minutes and 23 seconds, she's going to turn out the lights on us. ROE path. How long do you -- I mean, is this a 20% to 30% ROE business? And how long do you think it takes you to get there?

We believe it's a 20% to 30% ROE business. Today, the commitment we've made is that we're going to continue to grow our revenue at over 30%. We want to do that for as long as we can. And as we're doing that, we'll deliver profitability of a 30% incremental margin. Now why are we doing that? We want to show the investment world that this is a margin potential business. We've already gotten 30% EBITDA margins. I don't think it's that far to go to believe this is a 40-plus percent EBITDA margin business. But we're not going to keep driving that margin while we have the growth in front of us. The bigger our revenue gets over time at that margin profile, the more return will drop to the net income line. And so we think we can get to 20% to 30% ROE. Now that does assume that we're going to have a diversified business. Over the trailing 12 months, 50% of our net revenue was in lending and 50% of our net revenue was in non-lending, that's the type of mix that will allow us to get to the ROE. If the mix goes even higher to nonlending and noncapital intensive, it will actually drive an even higher ROE. The things that I'm mentioning, SoFi Plus, SoFi crypto, SoFi USD, big business banking, they're not capital-intensive businesses. They are high-margin, high-return businesses that will only add to that equation, and we'll continue to balance over time. We talked about 5 new businesses and 5 new revenue streams in SoFi Plus, big business banking, SoFi USD and crypto trading, investing and then lending. We still have tremendous growth in SoFi Invest, in the LPV, in the credit card business and the SoFi Money business. We released this quarter a measure for cash revenue, and we broke it down between net interest income, which I already mentioned, that $690 million of net interest income as well as cash revenue from noninterest income, which was $390 million. You can model the growth of that business in the following way. Take out of it, the $120 million of LPB, which is not really a product-driven business, and then take the remaining and put that over products. That is revenue per product. Our products are growing roughly 35% to 40%, so go products out at that rate or whatever you're comfortable with over time, the revenue per product is likely going to go up. Why is revenue per product going to go up? SoFi USD is new revenue, crypto trading is new revenue, big business banking is new revenue, SoFi Plus is new revenue, SoFi invest is under monetized. It's at about 70 basis points. It could get to 90 or 100 basis points as we add more valuable services. The credit card is under monetized. It's about a 13% effective interest rate going up to 17% and hopefully, higher than that over time. And the ability for us to continue to add revenue per product and product will drive the revenue stream that will drive ROE as well. So in total, we're really happy with the composition of our business and what we think the long-term return is. And the last thing I'd say is there's a couple of metrics that we release that people aren't doing the math on, and I want to do it for them. If you look at our net interest income from Q1 of 2024 to Q1 of 2026, and it's roughly $4.6 billion. It's right in the income statement, added up. It's largely all cash, virtually all cash. So $4.6 billion of cash net interest income people have paid to SoFi. If you look at the premium that's in our balance sheet and that we disclose from fair market value accounting, it's about $2 billion. That means we're driving more than 2x in cash -- net interest income cash against the noncash revenue recognition from the premium, which is pretty remarkable when you think about the quality of our loans and the returns. That will also give you greater confidence when I say we can get to a 20% to 30% ROE.

I also said to you that we were going to have so much fun there. We're going to turn the lights out on us. We're out of time. But Anthony, thank you so much. It really was a tremendous amount of fun. Thank you.

Thank you.