Sopra Steria Group SA (SOP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello and welcome to the 2023 Annual Results Presentation of Sopra Steria. [Operator Instructions] Now over to Cyril Malarge, CEO.

Thank you, and good morning. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this webcast to present the 2023 Sopra Steria annual results. I'll lead this presentation with Etienne du Vignaux, CFO. And I'll start by going over the year's highlights and then I look at the operational situation in each of our reporting units, Etienne will present the financial results, then I will talk about the strategy and the planned Banking Software divestment project, then I'll talk about our priorities and our targets for 2024, then we'll have the Q&A session. So Sopra Steria achieved a good performance in 2023. We achieved our financial targets. Organic revenue growth was at 6.6% compared with the target which was reviewed upwise in June of 6%. This performance was generated thanks to a Q4, which I would say, was solid. So up 6.2%. Group profitability continued to improve. Operating margin on business activity was 9.4%, a 0.5% increase when compared with 2022 and this performance is above the target that we set at the beginning of the year, which was slightly over 9%. The group also performed well in terms of cash. The free cash flow was EUR 390 million, which represents 6.7% of revenue for 2023 and we comfortably achieved our target which we set in the beginning of the year, which was EUR 300 million. So 2023 results are aligned with the trend, which we've seen since 2020 so structural improvement in performance. Total growth in revenue was around 10% for the last 3 years and organic growth between 6% and 8%. 9.4% was the operating margin on business activity, its highest level since 2012. Transformation of the result into cash was also improved. Free cash flow now well established within the midterm guidance range so between 5% and 7% of revenue. With regards to business now. 2023 was a very buoyant year. We won major transformation projects for our customers. And out of the selection that you can see on the slide, I want to focus on 4 of these logos. In the U.K. we won a good operation with NS&I, which enables us to reinforce our position on the financial services market. The contracts won for the contact centers for the millions of customers for NS&I and also managing the banking back office. And the commissioning will be progressive in 2024. In the Benelux thanks to the recent acquisition, we won operations for the European Commission. Sopra Steria is the leader of a pan-European consortium so it's a flagship contract for the European Commission and it's a contract worth EUR 500 million over 8 years. In space; for 2 years we have a space engineering program for the European Space Agency. This operation obviously draws on the technology and the skills of our new entity, CS Group, which was acquired in 2023. Finally, in France, we've got UGAP. We won a contract with them supporting the digital transformation of the public service. So out of the highlights for 2023, I wanted to talk about Consulting. You know that Consulting is one of our essential levers to transform the group's positioning and the Consulting plan has been refined and validated, approved this year. We're going to double the size of our revenue in the next 5 years. Priority given to strategic verticals; financial services, defense, aerospace, public sector; and for our strategic offers so our business offers, but also our technological offers focusing on digital and AI. This goal leads us to set up a new operational model and a new organization with specific P&Ls. We've also reinforced our leadership with the recruitment of about 30 partners and directors in 2023. At the end of 2023, we now have 4,000 consultants within the group. The revenue was EUR 458 million, total growth of nearly 12%. And the average daily rate for consulting was up by over 5% in 2023. We've also decided to engage major change to reinforce the group's position to make it a major player in tech in Europe. We want to increase the weighting of digital and technology in the group's revenues. So with this outlook, we've also decided to change our operating model progressively, organize it around sectoral verticals and horizontals. So obviously we've got the customer relationship here. Offers and the verticals draw on these horizontals so service centers and centers of expertise, which are responsible for the technological skills and obviously our delivery capacities. This change has led to the creation of a digital center of expertise. We've got our best technological experts bringing them together and this applies to cloud, data, AI, cybersecurity and S/4HANA for SAP. With this change, we've made a significant effort in 2023 which will be amplified in 2024. So recruiting experts, training, offering, reinforcing that for the technological side of things and then also boosting the number of certifications obtained by our employees. Obviously I can't talk about tech without mentioning generative AI. As you know, this is going to significantly impact productivity performance, business processes, our customers' processes and ours as well. Sopra Steria has a major role to play when it comes to adoption and rollout of AI and I want to highlight Sopra Steria's specific approach, which is a sovereign responsible approach, which will mean we can maximize the use and the value of AI as part of digital transformation. We have decided to significantly ramp up our investment in this domain and we've launched a major program called rAIse that was launched in the first half of 2023 and the program aims to amplify adoption of AI within the company and support our customers. So we have approximately 4,000 data and AI experts. Our target is to double this over the next 3 years. We are also drawing on 4,000 business consultants who are obviously the spearhead to overhaul our customers' business processes. At the end of 2023, most of our business consultants have already been trained on this new technology and the use cases and all of them will be trained before the end of the first quarter. With regards to our development tools, our platform. This obviously embeds AI technology and methodology and thanks to the experience that we have, we're working with our customers on building AI factories. Now in terms of partnerships, we carry on developing our powerful network of partners with all of the hyperscalers, start-ups. We can talk about NVIDIA and Sky Republic for example. So in short, Sopra Steria is well on the way to working with generative AI. Now for our positioning in Europe. In 2023, we saw an acceleration in our external growth, obviously you know that. EUR 847 million worth of acquisitions. Given the consolidation of these acquisitions, their contribution was EUR 443 million. Our external growth strategy aims to reinforce our positioning to be a major European leader especially in our verticals, geographies that are strategic for us. Thanks to the acquisition of CS Group, we've reinforced our positioning in defense and security and we've created a new strategic positioning in space. So this is a sector where there's strong potential for development. The acquisitions in the Benelux so Tobania and Ordina mean that we've got a key presence in the Benelux as we have over 4,000 employees and nearly EUR 700 million in pro forma revenue in this region. So we're balancing out the group's geographical portfolio. The 2023 pro forma revenue of Sopra Steria integrating the acquisitions over the past year is EUR 6.2 billion and based on this, the group can now draw on 5 strong countries. So France, which represent 39% of revenues; the United Kingdom, 15%; Benelux, which is the group's third largest region, at 11%; Scandinavia, 8%; Germany with 7%; and then Other Europe, which represents 8% of the group's business. In 2023 we also made good progress in terms of CSR. Firstly, in the domain of the environment. CDP confirmed for the seventh year in a row we got the score of A. So Sopra Steria is obviously on this list for A for the most transparent companies in the world and the most active in terms of preserving the environment. This recognition takes into account the new net zero target so reducing greenhouse gas before 2030. So 52% of Scopes 1 and 2, 37.5% for Scope 3. So at the end of December 2023, the total reduction for Scopes 1 and 2 was 63.6% and 9.8% for Scope 3. Just as a concrete example, our energy consumption was reduced by 20% when compared with 2021. In the social area now, our policy to boost female representation. We were up 0.4 points when it comes to total women in the workforce, the rate was 33.5%. There was also an increase of 1.1 point bringing us to 21.5% of women in the most senior roles, in the Top 10% of senior roles within the company. Now for human resources. Great Place to Work showed that 77% of employees consider the company is a great place to work, which means that most of the group's entities are now eligible for this Great Place to Work certification. Now I'd like to suggest we have an operational summary so we look at each of our reporting units. I'll start with France. Revenue in France so EUR 2.384 billion. Total growth of 16.9% over the last 10 months. We had the contribution of CS, which was EUR 257.4 million. Organic growth of 10.2%. Organic growth for France was 5% and 2.3% in the fourth quarter. Annual growth was driven by 3 major sectors so defense, aeronautics and transport. And the operating margin on business activity was 9.6% as planned, slightly down when compared with 2022 given the dilutive effect of the consolidation of CS Group in 2023. Now if we move to the United Kingdom. Revenue EUR 940.9 million, organic growth of 7.7%. So growth which was driven by the aerospace and defense vertical so that was up 23%. But then we've got also the 2 JVs, SSCL 13.3% and then NHS 9.7%, with positive growth in the private sector of 2.4%. The operating margin on business activity was EUR 132 million so up 0.5 points when compared with 2022. Now Other Europe, revenue was EUR 1,746.9 million so organic growth of 8.8%. Growth driven by Scandinavia and Spain, which generated double-digit growth. New positioning in the Benelux now. We consolidated Ordina in the fourth quarter. The revenue in the Benelux was EUR 309.7 million taking into account Sopra Steria, Ordina, Tobania and this was organic growth of 5.3%. Operating margin on business activity was 8.7% so up 2.5 points compared with the 6.2% of 2022. Now if we look at Sopra Banking Software, revenue was EUR 445.1 million so organic growth of 4.8%. So a return to growth here for SBS. Every quarter generated growth. In the fourth quarter obviously this was no exception because we posted organic growth of 6.7%. Should note the growth in software revenue, which was driven by subscription revenue, which was up almost 10% and then there was also an increase in services revenue of around 5.8%. As planned, the operating margin on business activity was slightly lower than 2022 at 5.4%. Now if we move on to Other Solutions, revenue of EUR 288.2 million representing organic growth of 5.9%. Human Resources Solutions grew organically by 6.7%. Property Management Solutions grew organically by 4.1%. And we've had continued recovery of operating margin on business activity, which was at 13.7% compared with the 13% in 2022. Now I'd like to hand the floor to Etienne who will talk about the financial results.

Thanks a lot, Cyril. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Let's have a look at the consolidated income statement of the group. So EUR 5,805.3 million, up 6.6%. And operating profit on business activity EUR 548.2 million, 9.4% for the margin rate, up 50 basis points. Let's have a look at the share-based payment expenses of EUR 43 million, 0.7% of the revenues as we announced that in the midyear. We took into account the We Share shareholding plan launched in the first quarter, this expense should decrease. Amortization of allocated intangible assets, EUR 38 million taking into account amortization of Tobania and CS Group, but no amortization for Tobania acquired at the end of the year. The price allocation is being considered. So profit from recurring operations, EUR 467.2 million, 20 basis points. Other operating income and expenses, EUR 137.4 million. The assets were reviewed and the goodwill was adjusted to the SBS scope and depreciation of goodwill, EUR 86 million. If you look at the other operating income and expenses, EUR 137.4 million, minus 0.9% of the revenue. Something that we anticipated when we presented you with the results. The operating profit is worth EUR 329.9 million or 5.7% of the revenue between the operating profit and net profit. The cost of net financial debt is up EUR 19.5 million for the financial year so debt outstanding payments have increased. The other financial income and expenses are made up of interest charges on the pension obligations and IFRS debt. So share of net profit from equity-accounted companies, a more normative result. This reflects the progress of the actual results that were published yesterday evening. So if you deduct the minority interest, EUR 183.7 million for the net income. And if you take into account the exceptional restated noncash elements and no ability to pay out dividends, 4.7% for the share of net profit from equity-accounted companies. So the dividend will be EUR 4.65 and the distribution rate will be 35% of the group restated with the exceptional elements. Regarding the share-based payments now so have a look at the slide, it speaks for itself. 2023 was a peak year, but in 2024 expected to be close to historical average. It will depend on the stock price especially if you consider the share-based payments. Let's have a look at the other operating income and expenses. They take into account acquisition expenses with lots of mergers and acquisitions so EUR 14 million if you take into account the asset impairment charge. If you exclude the EUR 86.3 million of goodwill, we would have EUR 51 million of expenses, minus 0.8% of the consolidated revenue. So the tax charge; if you restate the nonrecurring elements, the exceptional depreciation of goodwill, 25% of the revenues; the tax rate expected to be about 26% in 2024. Let's have a look at the cash generation process, it was quite solid. Cyril provided you with the generated cash flow of EUR 390.2 million. So EBITDA has increased more than EUR 127 million and positive contribution to working capital requirements, EUR 80 million of net advanced payments and that's a good surprise especially if you consider the rise in interest rates. And free cash flow is up versus 2022 and above the initial target, i.e. EUR 300 million. So financial debt as a result, it was EUR 152 million. It is EUR 946 million as of December the 31, EUR 2 billion of cash-out due to the changes to scope and financial changes; CS Group in the first quarter, Tobania in the first quarter and Tobania in the fourth quarter and U.K. with the buyback of the 25% stake of SSCL. The solid financial structure of the group is a reality. The gearing ratio is 49% as of the end of the financial year and the leverage ratio net debt on EBITDA below 1.5x, far below the maximum authorized, i.e. 3x in the credit contract submitted to the or subject to the covenant. Let's have the debt structure of group, EUR 1.3 billion regarding the lines that have been drawn. And the group negotiated a new loan worth EUR 400 million, 70% of that could be depreciated and 30% [ infini ]. It's a 5-year loan. The NEU CP & MTN is covered by the midterm renewable credit whose maturity will be in 2029. And I will hand over to Cyril again, who will be elaborating on the strategy.

Thanks a lot, Etienne. Let's have a look at the strategy now together. Allow me to highlight the work elements of the corporate project. It's an independent project supported by the main shareholder, core shareholder. You have an employee share ownership plan so all the employees are involved in the development of the company. And with this project, we are committed to transforming the group in terms of its performance. It's a European project. It's a project aiming at conquering, aiming at growing external growth, internal growth. This project will focus on value rather than volume. Added value project with an end-to-end approach. A powerful consulting business, a lot of digital and technological expertise and we have a sector-based vertical strategy. Over past few years, we've embarked upon a strategic approach. We want to fast track transformation so that the company can be adapted to a sector that is evolving quite a lot. And we want to be amongst the best so today, we want to clarify our strategy. So just as a reminder of the project. If you consider our project, the objective is to position Sopra Steria has genuine alternative in Europe to global players for major European clients in Europe. And of course we decided to clarify our strategy in order to deliver that project. We decided to concentrate our business activities on consulting services and solutions, digital solutions in Europe. This clarification process led us to divest the software banking activities. And if I were to sum up our strategy to develop our presence in Europe in our strategic countries, to make a difference with digital sovereignty challenges especially for the public sector; defense, aerospace, aeronautics and financial services alike. And these are our key strategic verticals and we need to focus our investments on our offerings on consulting, on digital. So Etienne, you can tell us more about the separation of SBS activities and disposal of Banking Software.

So it's a 2 leg-based project. Have a look at this slide. Separation of SBS activities and disposal of these activities to Axway Software. So what is the scope? It represents 80% of Sopra Banking Software, EUR 340 million in terms of turnover and the corporate value will be EUR 330 million. The remaining scope accounts for EUR 100 million in terms of turnover. Service activities or projects for major banks and financial institutions. The second leg of this project is the reduction of Sopra Steria's stake in Axway Software's capital. Sopra Steria will divest 3.6 million Axway shares if you consider the 6.9 million shares and the price will be EUR 26.5 per share for an amount of EUR 95.9 million. Axway has announced its intention to increase its capital with preferential subscription rights in order to finance the acquisition of Sopra Banking Software assets and Sopra Steria won't take part in this increase in capital. But the subscription rights will be divested to Sopra GMT, who indicated its intention to exercise their rights. As part of this new model and in order to meet the requirements of our customers, it will be important to develop a reinforced partnership between Sopra Steria and Axway Software in order to reinforce the SBS activities to accompany the digital transformation of our customers. Following the operations, Sopra Steria will benefit from the value creation of Axway in line with the residual stake about 11%. Sopra GMT, the reference holding, will retain a full and long-term commitment to the success of Sopra Steria's enterprise project. There would be a capital increase reserved to a minority financial investor, One Equity Partners, and of the structure of the Sopra Steria capital remains unchanged. So to conclude on this topic, a few complementary elements. Let's have a look at the impact on accounts. The envisaged divestment will have an accretive impact on an annual basis. With this operation, financial debt of the group would be reduced and the investment capacity will be strong at EUR 425 million and no significant additional impact on asset valuation. In terms of transaction timetable or schedule, there are different stages. There are different milestones to pass. So information, consultation of the employee representative bodies, some regulatory approvals will have to be complied with, publication of the reports of independent experts taking into account the Axway shares, of course we need the approvals from the financial market authorities. So you can see what is the calendar. So these operations should be conducted before the end of the second quarter of 2024 or at the latest third quarter of 2024. So I will hand it over again to Cyril Malarge, who will be elaborating on the priorities and targets for 2024.

So let's have a look at the priorities. They are quite clear. So we need to succeed the process designed to integrate the companies and of course we need to fasttrack the internal initiatives and to beef up our performance regarding the integration of acquired companies. The governance teams are ready and there will be some operational complementarities in 2024 and there are some targets of synergies, EUR 10 million. The run rate will be EUR 23 million on an annual basis as of 2025. If the disposal of banking software activities is being launched, it's in execution phase now and it will be finalized before the end of the second quarter of 2024 or third quarter of 2024. We want to fasttrack our internal transformation, something that we've understood. So we will be focusing on the development of consulting to ramp up our technological offers and we will be focusing on the evolution of the business model. And of course we would be very active when it comes to strategy. In 2024 we will specify the development targets of the group in Europe. Together with the M&A strategy, we will be able to build a new plan for '25-'27 with new financial targets that we'll be communicating during a Capital Markets Day that will be held in early December 2024. So now I'll conclude with our financial targets for this year. Against the backdrop of a market that has slowed down, we are aiming for organic growth in revenue between 2% to 4%. We anticipate Q1 to be relatively stable and then a progressive acceleration throughout the year. We carry on improving operating margin. We're aiming for between 9.5% to 10% of operating margin on business activity. This takes into account the dilutive effect of 0.2% coming from consolidation over 12 months of the acquisitions that we made in 2023. In terms of free cash flow, we're targeting EUR 350 million in 2024. So this presentation of the 2023 annual results has come to a close. Thank you for listening. And now I'd like to suggest that we move on to the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Nicolas David from ODDO Securities.

I have a question regarding results and strategy so 3 questions. If we could just come back to the planned divestment of SBS, what triggered this project? Is it more on SBS' side or is it on Sopra Steria's side? And the need to recuperate investment capital more quickly than normal and have you got any targets in mind? Have you got any M&A targets in mind and can you clarify this? Now second question on growth so it's quite clear Q1 low and then accelerating. What is the variability with the underpinning assumptions that you have for the between 2% and 4%? Is there variability as of Q1 or is this at the end of Q1 and it's Q2 where we'll see greater variability? And what are your assumptions in terms of acceleration or not or do you see a potential more severe deterioration than what we might have anticipated? And then my last question on margins, clarification here. The 20 basis points, is that net of the synergies expected or is that a growth figure? And does this guidance also integrate the potential divestment of SBS and I would like to understand the guidance range, which are slightly more cautious than the starting point of 2023 or are these top line guidances? Is growth lower than planned and then margin or are we talking more about investment here, which might lead us to the bottom of the range?

Well, there's actually a lot of questions there. So I'll come back to your first question now, which regards SBS and the trigger for this operation. I said quite clearly at the start of 2022 with Eric Pasquier, we worked on the company's strategy with a willingness to accelerate the group's transformation given the environment, given the arrival of new technologies which represent a breakaway. So the group needs to adapt to these new challenges as quickly as possible so that's why we've accelerated the decision. And then if you look at the situation, we've got Axway who's ready, ready to transform as well and that wanted to accelerate their corporate strategy. GMT, which wants to solidify this trajectory both for software and services. And then Sopra Steria, which was ready to look at this type of operation. And then Sopra Banking Software for whom it's logical to have a genuine software project. So when you've got the desire to establish strategic challenges very quickly to turn this into transformative decisions, which are going to impact the company and when the stars are aligned, you have to accelerate. Now for M&A, the strategy today we're going to rework it. I said we'll rework it in 2024 and we'll be able to present that in detail at the end of the year. Basically broadly speaking it's not fundamentally changed, we're targeting our strategic areas. So Europe, our verticals are offers, but we can give you more information at the end of the year and up until then in 2024, you shouldn't expect any major operations. In 2024 we want to successfully integrate the companies that were bought in 2023. Now you've got questions in terms of guidance. So growth variability is in the second half of the year. So H2 is more pessimist so between the 2% and 4%. We've got 3 percentage points to 4 percentage points difference between H1 and H2. H2 has 2 more days than in 2023 so that has an impact and then in H1 we have less days. Now for the margin guidance. So the planned divestment of SBS is not included in the guidance. It's still at project stage at this point. And the 0.2% that I mentioned is net, it's not growth to answer your question. Now if we just come back to the guidance, we were at 9.4% in 2023 and we're announcing between 9.5% and 10% in 2024. So that's an improvement of between 10 basis points and 60 basis points. Now if we think about the consolidation over 12 months, that's 20 points more so that represents the range 10 points plus 20 points equals 30 points. So it's like a guidance obviously that explains the range and you need to bear those figures in mind and the guidance that's our target. So that's all to answer your questions.

We've now got a question from Laura Metayer.

So in terms of guidance for margin in 2024, what would lead you to be at 9.5% or 10%? Does it depend on the growth that you're expecting in 2024? And then the second question with regards to Other Solutions, could you talk about the strategic vision, where does it stand within Sopra Steria? Could we expect a divestment in the future? Could you clarify your strategy here?

So when I just talk about the guidance for margin, is it fundamentally dependent on growth? No. Obviously for a long time now we've launched various different streams and we think all of our reporting units can improve to this improvement in performance, whether it be the U.K. Solutions, France or Continental Europe. We consider that all of them can hit the 10%. So that's just a clarification here. We've conducted a company transformation with Consulting ramping up in value, sales prices which are improving month-on-month. We've launched a program to reduce our real estate footprint. We've got synergies from our acquisitions, which are going to start to deliver. So obviously growth can optimize a little bit or slightly reduce, but it's not fundamentally going to change whether we obtain this target or not. Now for solutions, if we consider there wasn't a long-term future for solutions in the group, then we wouldn't have made this differentiation between the 2. So within the company for Sopra HR and for real estate and then for the solution side of SBS, there's a strategic interest for the group to maintain these operations close to our Consulting and services activity and if we decided to transfer them, then I think the group would have lost a strength when it comes to a strategic project. So I do confirm our willingness to keep them in the company's strategic project.

Now we've got a question from Emmanuel Parot from Gilbert Dupont.

If you can hear me, I'll ask a couple of questions. So in terms of result now for Sopra Steria, I don't have the change in headcount, the comparison for 2023 and the embedded growth for the year as well. Have you got the figures for the headcount? That's my first question. And then second question on the visibility in your key verticals. Could you give me a little bit more information, a bit more color here? And then on the divestment, are you going to carry on consolidating this as an equity accounted company? And then with regards to the capital for GMT with One Equity Partner so with 2 companies here, could you perhaps give us some more information on the target, on the goals or the agreement that could be put together with Sopra GMT?

So with regards to the change in headcount over the year, we're at plus 425 and then in Q4 we were flat. So that's the trend for the start of the year. Now with regards to visibility in the major verticals, things are getting off to a soft start. Thinking about the banking vertical for example, that's getting off to a soft start. Airbus, aeronautics, which hasn't started yet; there is growth, but we haven't fully started yet. We haven't got the same levels of growth as what we might have seen in the past and recently. Now for the public sector, we feel that there's potential to start quite quickly, but we're still starting the year. It's not fully launched. And then for defense, we've got multi annual programs here. It's getting off to a relatively good start, quite strong, transport as well. So there's no breakaway between 2023 and 2024. Now for One Equity Partner, this is a player that we know well. Pierre Pasquier has known this private equity fund for a long time. They manage about EUR 10 billion worth of assets, about 30 positions in Europe and they'll take a minority stake in GMT's capital and they're going to be supporting the operation on a temporary basis. Perhaps another question on the divestment in terms of the accounting. So Sopra Steria will have 11% of Axway's capital, but it shouldn't be equity accounted, but we'll come back to that when we talk about the project.

Questions are being asked on the English side. We will now take our next question from Narasimha from Bank of America.

This is Aditya from Bank of America. Just a couple of questions from my side. Firstly, I think could you just talk about post the sale of SBS, how this -- any implications on your relationships with banks on the services or solutions side and should you think about any dissynergies in terms of maybe some costs from that sale? That's my first question. Second, can you talk about in terms of M&A, which maybe we'll look around which markets or capabilities would be interesting for you given you now have stronger balance sheet and flexibility to pursue that and how you're thinking about the expansion plan? And then finally, on the margins for this year -- for 2023, could you just confirm how much of the margin improvement came from the real estate consolidation and the contribution from synergies and how to think about the contribution from those 2 for 2024?

So I will give you an answer in French because we have interpreters. Regarding the first question, the divestment project and the impact on customers. So we had lots of customers since the press release of yesterday so we got some feedback already. So what is the feedback all about? It's a positive feedback to start with where people told us that it's a meaningful operation. This operation is quite meaningfully rationale is crystal clear. This is the feedback from the people. Second type of reaction. Of course we have a software structure that will fasttrack its information towards SAS. We can understand the transaction with Axway would be able to accelerate the transformation process and we need that as customers. So this is a reassuring trend on the services side after the transaction and operation, EUR 1 billion in terms of revenues for banking, if I add insurance EUR 250 million more. And we've borne out our willingness to consider financial services as a strategic pillar for the group. So there's a reassuring trend. The strategic partner will actually work together. Software and services are being embedded and you have an 11% stake in the Axway Capital and this will clarify and legitimize the Sopra Steria position with Axway in banking. Regarding the second question about mergers and acquisitions. Are we going to -- what are we going to do with this operation? So mergers and acquisitions will have a clearer stance on the strategy, but we won't change quite a lot. We will secure the integration of the companies that were acquired. But with the operation, we curtail debt to the tune of EUR 400 million and if we anticipate the cash that we contemplate for this year. When we communicate during the Capital Market Day, we'll be ready to concur according to the M&A strategy that you will be presented with. But there are lots of open options regarding synergies now. As regards the synergies, as I mentioned earlier, you need to consider the operations corrected with acquisitions. So we anticipate EUR 10 million worth of gains in 2024 and we confirmed what we announced, EUR 23 million run rate as of the end of 2025.

Savings from the real estate consolidation in '23 and how much would that be in 2024?

Regarding this topic, it's a midterm trajectory. We confirm the objective of 30 basis points minimum versus the revenues. So these are midterm topics and it depends on the renegotiation of leases. So we've confirmed this objective of 30 basis points versus 2023. It's a 3-year process. So it's a long-term trajectory at the end of the day.

We will now take our next question from Nina from Redburn Atlantic.

I just wanted to ask around the consulting business. I realize there's an aim to double this over the next 5 years and there's been changes made internally to give the consultants probably more autonomy to win business. I see that the average daily rate has gone up quite materially. Do you see that your pricing for your next biggest competitor is closing in and also is the sort of the service of the consultants or the value of them increasing due to more contracts focused on AI and data and more forward-looking projects? And just maybe a little bit more color around this part of the business.

So once again I will be delivering an answer in French because we have interpreted with us. It's a question about Consulting. So we've made an announcement over the past 2 or 3 years, Consulting is the pillar, the spearhead of our transformative process and we want to get a better position for the company with Consulting. So we endorsed the strategy. The idea is to increase twofold the size from EUR 458 million to EUR 1 billion in a period of 5 years, but we don't want to pull out in different directions. Of course we want to increase our size twofold, but we want to create a volume effect, but we want to create more value. So what does it mean? So Consulting business means that we need to be close to the other businesses. It's like a Trojan horse for all other businesses of the group. So this is the strategy. So we focus on the 5 strategic countries I've mentioned them; France, Germany, the U.K., Scandinavia and Benelux. We focus on the strategic verticals of financial services, public sector, aerospace, defense and security. And if you consider those verticals and geographical areas, we will beef up our Consulting business both in the business and in the digital services AI. Will it accelerate the movement? Of course. We are consulted in order to help and support our customers when it comes to delivering their strategies designed to launch some first experiments. We are talking about generative AI and the impact on the business processes. So what are the drivers for pricing? Of course in the past 2 years, we've increased by 5% or 6% our sales prices. The starting point was low. That was not normal for a consulting business. So we decided to sort out what was genuine consulting and what was known and we decided to ramp up our value. We recruited lots of partners, about 30 of them. But if you add up the 40 partners of last year so in total, there are 70 partners that are managed by Fabrice who joined us 18 months ago. So we have a consulting culture that is well sold. We are close to the leaders. That's why prices have increased. Do we consider that we are at the expected level? Not at all. We need to make strides of course especially if you consider the expected sales price for Sopra Steria.

There are no further questions on the English side. I will now hand this back to George for French questions. Derric Marcon from SocGen.

4 questions. First question about skills being pulled together in a horizontal fashion. Is it possible to quantify the benefits and the advantages of this decision? I thought it was already done in the group. So have we moved a step forward? Can we quantify these steps? What do you expect from this decision? Is there another way of quantifying the process? Apart from organic growth, KPIs have to be under control and we need to understand the strides. There's an underlying question more bolt-on acquisitions, acquisition of small technological companies like C2i driven companies, the operating margin end of 2024 9.5% in terms of guidance. Which BUs will have a normative margin and which BUs won't have a normative margin for the U.K? Third question. So in the U.K. at the end of the year, it was a very brisk situation. If you look at the pipeline of big deals, they played a key role in 2023. So what is in the pipeline in 2024? So what is your take on 2024 for the U.K.? Last question, the level of restructuring processes. What can we expect for 2024?

So first question regarding the business model, the operating model as it were. Of course we started the process already. We focused on the horizontal lines on the excellence centers, but it's an industrial step, an additional one and it's not over yet. Of course we intend to have a metrics-based organization, the operating organization as it were. So what do we expect? We want to attract the best and of course we want to make sure that each vertical can sell the offers of the group and not only the offers within the remits of the unit. Of course we expect more growth and of course I'm not talking about 2024. We know that if you consider these transformations, they are on the long haul so we expect more growth and better performances. This is our expectations regarding horizontal pooling process. Bolt-on acquisitions, a topic that we touched upon already, should there be some opportunities in order to beef up our skills; technological, digital business skills and competencies. So should we get this opportunity, we'll be looking at those opportunities duly. Regarding the margin guidance, I won't give you the details for the BUs. Is it a normative trend for 2024? Not at all because you need to consider the reporting units and the reporting units have the ability to improve. Because you have to take into account the effects of acquisitions and we have to deliver some synergies in 2024 and 2025 and this goes for France and for the Europe reporting unit. For the U.K., whatever the pipeline, it is quite decent and the lack of continuity between the second half of 2023 and 2024. We are less sensitive to the business climate in the U.K., BPS-oriented long-term contract-oriented strategy. So we are sheltered from the cyclical effects of the economic situation. But the NS&I project did get off to a light start. For Q4 of last year NS&I, EUR 4 million in terms of revenues. People have in mind the EUR 400 million revenues of the contract we signed, but it got off a light start. So I expect growth in the U.K., but a gradual type of growth. Regarding restructuring, Etienne, go ahead.

Regarding nonrecurring cost and recurring cost, of course there will be disposal project. So in terms of revenue ratio, it is similar to that of 2023, 0.9% in 2023 so about 1% in 2024.

Can I ask another question? Some LBS assets have been disposed of. So for the financial service reporting line, there's a strong integration between the product and the services solutions and services activities. It was a differentiating factor for Sopra. But at the end of the day, if you put SBS within Axway -- in Axway's fold, I think that there should be a kind of disconnect especially if you want to improve the performances.

Not at all. That's not my hunch. So if you consider Axway, it comes from Sopra Steria so it's a spontaneous acquirer of Sopra Banking. We have a common history, real software DNA, a good SaaS experience. We want to transform the products into subscription-based products and we've already forged a Sopra Steria-Axway partnership. We work well together. So I can tell you that this process is well-anchored within the corporate project with managers. There's a second benefit. Sopra Banking will be on a position of a software company, a software house. So this project will bring some added value for Sopra Banking, but also for Sopra Steria as a service provider. So of course it's a matter of execution, but the partnership with Axway has been in existence for many years and I was instrumental in this process. So I'm quite confident.

We've got a question from Thomas at BNP Paribas.

I have 3 questions. If we could just come back to One Equity Partner.

We can't hear you.

Can you hear?

Yes, this sounds slightly better.

So just in terms of the capital with GMT, could you let us know if GMT is selling any of its participation and what's happening there? And then with the U.K., you said obviously there's the NS&I program, which is a progressive ramp up so EUR 4 million so far and then ramping up. Can we expect the U.K. reporting unit to generate double-digit growth in the first half? And then a question on prices in France in Q4, could we have a little bit more information on that?

So for the first question, simple answer. GMT is guaranteeing Sopra's project as well as Axway and it's not going to be selling its stake and it's just a capital increase with a minority fund who's there temporarily. Second question on the U.K. Should we expect double-digit growth in the first semester? No. Obviously we're progressively ramping up the NS&I contract and then the impact of the prices in France in the fourth quarter aligned with what we've seen in previous quarters, we're talking about between 5% and 6%. So thank you very much for listening. We've now come to the end of the session and I wish you a good day. Goodbye. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]