SPIE SA (SPIE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the SPIE 2025 Full Year Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to Gauthier Louette, Chairman and CEO; and Jerome Vanhove, Group CFO. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for our full year results. I am with Jerome Vanhove, our Group CFO; and Alexandra Bournazel, our Head of Investor Relations. In 2025, we recorded a high-quality performance with outstanding cash generation. It does illustrate once again the strength and agility of our model, the relevance of our strategy and the quality of our execution. We are well ahead on our EBITA margin trajectory, and we are upgrading our 2028 margin ambition accordingly. To begin, I would like to share a few recent contract examples that reflect our strong positioning. In Germany, we have been awarded 3 new substation contracts in Baden-Wurttemberg, supporting Netze BW grid expansion plan. This builds on a long and trusted partnership with more than 70 projects delivered together since 2006. As general contractor, SPIE will oversee the full project scope from planning to commissioning. This project will enhance grid reliability and support the integration of renewable energy, fully in line with Germany's energy transition priorities. This award reaffirm SPIE's ability to deliver end-to-end grid infrastructure projects and its contribution to modernizing Europe's power networks. In France, SPIE is strengthening its long-standing partnership with Bouygues Telecom for the operation and maintenance of its national data center network. This new contract builds on 15 years of collaboration and covers mission-critical services across Bouygues Telecom's historic data center sites in the Paris region from high and low-voltage power systems to generators, inverters, ventilation and air conditioning. SPIE is also expanding its support to wider footprint, with the assignment now extending to additional sites, reflecting Bouygues Telecom's trust in SPIE facilities operational capabilities. And this contract underscores SPIE's ability to run critical digital infrastructure at scale while supporting both performance and decarbonization objectives. On Page 6, SPIE has signed a European framework agreement with Tesla for the deployment of battery energy storage systems, building on existing collaboration in Belgium, the Netherlands and France. This renewable 3-year agreement applies to SPIE subsidiaries across Europe with BESS installation expertise and will support further expansion in Europe, notably in Poland and Germany. SPIE will deliver high value-added services for Tesla Megapack projects, including engineering, Balance of Plant works, grid connection and commissioning. This agreement highlights SPIE's ability to deliver standardized multi-country execution in fast-growing energy infrastructure segments. And now to Global Services Energy, SPIE is reaching a new milestone in offshore wind with a major contract on Dogger Bank, set to become the world's largest offshore wind farm. Through its subsidiary, SPIE Wind Connect, the group will carry out the full termination and testing of the inter-array cables on the final phase of the project on behalf of DEME. Once operational, Dogger Bank will be capable of supplying renewable electricity to around 6 million U.K. homes. This project showcases SPIE's ability to deliver highly complex offshore energy infrastructure and reinforces its role in accelerating the energy transition. Now moving on to the key takeaway. So total revenue grew by a solid 4.8%. Our EBITA margin reached a record 7.6%, a new step-up of 40 basis points, driven by pricing power, selectivity, operational excellence and accretive acquisitions. Free cash flow was outstanding at EUR 424 million (sic) [ EUR 524 million ] underpinned by best-in-class working capital management and 108% cash conversion, well above our 100% target. Bolt-on M&A activity remained active with 9 acquisitions in 2025. And we also have done a very dynamic start to 2026, with the signing of an agreement to acquire ROFA Industrial AG, a strategic step-up in industrial services in Germany. Finally, we reaffirmed our sustainability leadership with 50% of revenue aligned with EU taxonomy. This is the number one position within the SBF 120. So on Page 9, let's take a closer look at our main financial KPIs. I'm pleased to report that revenue was well above the EUR 10 billion mark as announced in our 2025 guidance. The 5% constant FX growth was well balanced between a 3.2% contribution from acquisitions and a 2% organic growth. EBITA was close to EUR 800 million, up 11.4% with a further 40 basis point step-up in margin after the 50 basis points increase in 2024. The outstanding free cash flow reached EUR 524 million, bringing leverage down to 1.3. Bolt-on M&A was sustained with the 9 acquisitions we have completed, representing EUR 347 million in annual revenue. And finally, our adjusted net income grew by 9%, and we will recommend a dividend of EUR 1.08 per share, up 8%. Looking at the top line growth on Page 10. At constant exchange rates, revenue grew by 5%, driven by 2 segments: Germany, which continued to deliver a very high growth of 10.3%, well-balanced between organic growth at 5.3% and the contribution from acquisitions at 5%. Northwestern Europe, which also performed strongly with revenue up 5.1%, driven by a 4.3% organic growth. Meanwhile, France maintained a solid level of resilience against a muted economic backdrop with a slight 0.8% revenue contraction. Central Europe increased sharply by 13.6%, mainly driven by a 12.1% contribution from acquisitions, while organic was at a robust 1.5%. Global Services Energy was down 4.4%. This reflected a more selective approach as well as the leveling off following an exceptional H1 2024, which benefited from a one-off shutdown maintenance contract. Overall, this performance underscores the strength and balance of our multi-local, multi-technical model. Looking at acquisitions, the 9 acquisitions completed this year were well balanced across our European footprint. Together, they add EUR 347 million of annual revenue. Just to mention the most recent ones, PIK AG and Cyqueo in Germany, adding EUR 62 million in annual revenue in the integration and maintenance of complex audiovisual systems as well as cybersecurity, cloud and data. Artemys in France adding EUR 82 million in annual revenue in digital transformation and strengthening our offer in the strategic areas of cloud, big data and cybersecurity. Worley Power Services, EUR 70 million in annual revenue in technical maintenance for power generation assets. Building on its presence in Australia since 2012, SPIE Global Services Energy is now positioned to play a key role in the country's energy transition from coal and gas to renewable resources. Meanwhile, the integration of all 2024 acquisitions has progressed well and according to plan. Looking ahead, we maintain a robust pipeline of bolt-on acquisition opportunities within a highly fragmented market. And we have had a very good start to this year with the signing of an agreement to acquire ROFA Industrial AG, which I will describe in more detail on the next slide. On Page 12, ROFA Industrial Automation is a leading player in highly attractive markets such as industrial automation, conveyor systems and intralogistics. Building on the Robur acquisition completed in 2024, it will enable SPIE to move further up the value chain while bringing a diversified client portfolio and new cross-selling opportunities. ROFA will add around EUR 430 million in annual revenue and 1,200 highly qualified employees. It also offers a sustained high single-digit EBITA margin profile and it will be mid-single-digit EPS accretive from the first year. ROFA is a very welcome addition that will reinforce our leadership position in the German industrial services market, the largest and most dynamic in Europe. Looking now at our EBITA margin, we delivered a new step-up of 40 basis points to a record 7.6%. Germany improved by 40 basis points, reaching 7.9% and remains our best-performing geography. It is also our largest contributors in terms of EBITA in absolute value. Northwestern Europe delivered a remarkable 110 basis point increase, reaching 7.4% margin, now only slightly below Germany. Central Europe continued to catch up, posting an 80 basis point improvement. France held firm at 7.1%. Global Services Energy remains our top performer with an EBITA margin of 10.2%. Once again, this margin expansion reflects our unwavering focus on rigorous contract selectivity, pricing discipline and high quality of delivery. Moving now to the segment and starting with the largest one, Germany. Germany delivered a 10.3% revenue growth and is now firmly established as the group's primary growth engine. High-voltage activities were particularly dynamic, as illustrated by the example I mentioned earlier. We also benefited from sustained demand for energy efficiency and from our strong positions in data centers, tunnel emission systems and battery energy storage systems. In Industrial Services, performance was supported by our maintenance activities and our targeted presence in fast-growing segments such as automation, logistics, food and pharmaceutical. EBITA margin increased by 40 basis points to 7.9%. This reflects a favorable mix from high-voltage growth, the accretive impact of recent bolt-on acquisitions and our continued focus on operational excellence and contract selectivity. On Page 15, France. Revenue in France was broadly stable, demonstrating strong resilience amidst a muted economic backdrop. Revenue decline was concentrated in 2 divisions: City Networks, reflecting the ongoing ramp down of mature fiber optic rollout programs and Building Solutions, where we continue to apply a high level of selectivity to preserve margin quality, and we did secure a solid backlog of high-value projects. The other 4 divisions delivered sound performance supported by the diversified sector exposure, including aeronautics, defense, BESS Systems and the mission-critical nature of the services, particularly in data center or nuclear facilities. Our healthy EBITA margin held firm at 7.1%, thanks to our lean and flexible cost structure and our sustained operational discipline. Northwestern Europe delivered strong performance, both in terms of revenue growth and EBITA margin improvement. Revenue growth was driven by a strong organic performance of 4.3% despite a very high comparison base in Q4. As a reminder, we had a growth of 11.9% in Q4 '24. EBITA margin improved by 110 basis points, the highest gain across all our segments to reach 7.4%. The Netherlands has now become the group's second largest growth contributor. This reflects SPIE's strong positioning in key markets such as high-voltage services, building energy efficiency, data center services and critical infrastructure. It also underscores our exposure to high-growth sectors like food and pharmaceutical, energy storage and advanced technologies. In Belgium, rising investment in energy efficiency remains a key growth driver with a step-up in grid investment and booming demand for battery energy storage systems. Building Solutions and Technical Facility Management also contributed meaningfully to the performance. In Central Europe, I'm on Page 17, revenue rose by 14.7%, fueled by the 12.1% contribution from bolt-on acquisition, reflecting sustained M&A activity in Poland and Switzerland since the start of the year. Poland and Slovakia confirmed the return to organic growth in the second half, driven by renewed momentum in high-voltage activities after delays in the first half. The substantial backlog continued to grow. Austria maintained a high level of activity underpinned by strong dynamics in transport infrastructure and transmission and distribution services. Overall, EBITA margin increased by 80 basis points, supported by operational excellence initiatives and a particularly robust contribution from Australia and Switzerland. Lastly, in Global Services Energy, revenue declined 4.4% organically due to an exceptionally high comparison basis in H1 2024 as well as a highly selective approach in oil and gas maintenance activities. We preserved strong margin levels in the context of low oil prices with a 10 basis point EBITA margin increase to 10.2%, marking the highest level among all segments. Currency had a negative 4.2% impact, driven by depreciation of the U.S. dollar. Offshore wind activities continued to gain momentum, supported by our strengthened market positioning and enhanced technical capabilities following the successful integration of Correll Group. And a word on the shareholding structure on Page 19. As a service company, our employees are our greatest asset. SPIE's 2025 employee shareholding plan was once again a success with around 2,025 people across 70 countries participating, a 16% increase compared to 2024. Employee now own 10% of the company. And as a result, SPIE now ranks among the few companies in the SBF 120 where employees are the largest shareholder. After the SHARE FOR YOU 2025 plan, more than 1 employee in 2 is the group shareholder. By involving our employees in our entrepreneurial journey, we enable them to participate in our long-term value creation. In H1 2026, we will launch a share buyback program to partially offset dilution. And now I will hand over to Jerome, who will take you through our financial performance.

Thank you, Gauthier, and good morning, everyone. I'm starting with a brief overview of our 2025 income statement. We delivered a solid revenue growth at EUR 10.4 billion, up 4.8% year-on-year or 5% at constant foreign exchange. This reflects a healthy 2% organic growth, mainly driven by Germany and Northwestern Europe. EBITA margin improved by 40 basis points year-on-year, another step up to 7.6%. As a result of both top line growth and margin expansion, EBITA reached EUR 793 million, up 11.4%. And finally, I would highlight our adjusted net income at EUR 458 million, up 9% year-on-year. Moving on to our revenue bridge, which provides a breakdown of our 4.8% total revenue growth. In addition to the already mentioned organic growth standing at 2%, our Bolt-on M&A activity continues to support our total growth. The acquisitions contributed materially to the overall increase with 3.2% impact, representing nearly EUR 318 million of additional revenues, of which EUR 198 million of full year contribution effect from transactions which were closed already in 2024 and EUR 120 million on a pro rata temporary basis for -- from the 2025 acquisitions, as most of them were closed rather late in the last quarter and will contribute fully from 2026 onwards. The disposal of our small Belgium IT support business in late 2024 had just a limited impact of minus 0.2%. Finally, the currency effects at group level were close to neutral over the period at minus 0.1%. Let me now turn to our adjusted net income for the year. At EUR 458 million, adjusted net income was up 9% year-on-year, and this reflecting on strong EBITA growth. Net interest mainly include a rather steady cost of net financial debt and growing IFRS 16 interest cost, this in line with the business expansion. The other financial charges increased mainly as a consequence of negative net foreign exchange impact this year, especially at Global Service Energy and this due to a weaker U.S. dollar against euro. Our normative tax rate increased slightly to 30.2% and reflecting the gradual change in geographical mix at group level, notably the growing profit contribution from Germany. So a strong adjusted net income evolution overall despite some FX-related headwinds and a slight increase in our normative tax rate. Turning now to our usual bridge from adjusted net income to reported net income, which includes the main noncash IFRS items, starting with the IFRS accounting treatment of the ORNANE convertible bond. As a reminder, the derivative component of the ORNANE is revalued at fair value at each closing period, and this based on SPIE's share price. Given the sharp increase in our share price over the period, plus 64% from January 1st to December 31st, we recorded a noncash IFRS charge of EUR 176 million, supporting the fair value adjustment of the ORNANE, thus mitigated by a EUR 43 million deferred tax asset. Let me remind you that under U.S. GAAP, the accounting treatment of this convertible bond ORNANE would have just no P&L impact. You will find in the appendix of this presentation the updated version of the slide we presented already at midyear on that topic. As a direct consequence, reported net income group share decreased in 2025 compared to '24. Turning to our working capital, which remains a structural strength of SPIE's business model. As a reminder, we operate with structurally negative working cap and this throughout the year. At December end, it remained practically stable at around negative EUR 1 billion. Expressed in days of revenue, our working cap stood at minus 34 days, a slight 2 days deviation, mainly in comparison to the previous year, and this mainly due to the reduction of an historical factoring program in Germany and a decrease of net tax liabilities at the end of December. Overall, our continued focus on early invoicing, disciplined cash collection contributed to this excellent performance. Once again, I'm turning now to free cash flow. Once again, our cash conversion based on our operating cash flow was above 100% target at 108%, supporting obviously a very strong free cash flow at EUR 524 million. This remarkable cash conversion reflects the quality of our earnings, but as well as the close monitoring of the working cap. This high level of free cash flow puts us well on track to deliver on our 2028 midterm target, which I remind is a cumulative EUR 2 billion of free cash flow over the period 2025 to 2028 included. Moving to Page 26. As mentioned, this outstanding EUR 524 million free cash flow allowed us to self-finance first EUR 234 million of acquisitions, pay out EUR 182 million of dividends to our shareholders and carry out EUR 39 million of anti-dilutive share buyback to partially offset the dilutive impact of our employee shareholding plan, so-called SHARE FOR YOU program. All this was achieved while slightly reducing net debt from EUR 1.262 billion down to EUR 1.145 billion, evidencing once again our cash-generative model. Moving to our leverage ratio. We further deleveraged throughout the year, and our leverage ratio decreased to 1.3x at the end of 2025. This is excluding IFRS 16 impact. Historically, we have consistently demonstrated the deleveraging capacity of our business model, and we have only releveraged twice each time following the self-financing of rather more significant value-creative acquisitions. Finally, our financial structure. Our financial and balance sheet structure remains strong, supported by a well-diversified long maturity debt and attractive financing condition. In May 2025, we successfully issued a EUR 600 million sustainability-linked bond, which was largely oversubscribed. It carries out an attractive fixed coupon of 3.75% and matures in 2030. Now SPIE's entire debt profile is linked -- sustainability linked, in line with our long-term ESG framework. 81% of our gross debt is at fixed rate with a very stable weighted average cost of debt at 3.4%. Liquidity at the end of 2025 stood at EUR 1.8 billion, including nearly EUR 800 million of available cash and EUR 1 billion of undrawn revolving credit facility, which allows us, obviously, to finance upcoming M&A, starting with ROFA. Lastly, our credit rating is unchanged at BB+ with a stable outlook from Standard & Poor's and a positive one from Fitch. Turning to our dividend, recommended dividend. In light of that strong financial performance, the Board of Directors will recommend to the AGM a dividend of EUR 1.08 per share up 8% year-on-year. This represents a 40% payout ratio, fully in line with our long-standing commitments to a sustainable and growing dividend distribution. This dividend to be paid fully in cash includes an interim dividend of EUR 0.30 per share, which was already paid in September 2025, thus with the remaining EUR 0.78 per share to be paid in May 2026 after the approval of such a dividend by the AGM. As usual, an interim dividend will also be paid in September 2026, representing 30% of the approved 2025 dividend. Thank you for your attention, and I'll hand back to Gauthier.

Thank you, Jerome. As you know, sustainability is at the core of our business. In 2025, we met all our environmental targets, underscoring the commitment and effectiveness of our approach to sustainability. To highlight some metrics in particular, 50% of our revenue is now aligned with the EU taxonomy. Our Scope 1 and 2 emissions have decreased by 30% since 2019. We also made significant progress on Scope 3 with 68% of our procurement-related emissions now made with suppliers that have set ambitious reduction targets. Safety remains an absolute priority. The absolute number of severe accidents was only 6% lower in 2025 than in 2019. However, the severe accident frequency rate improved by 22% over the same period, demonstrating our relentless improvement efforts in this area. Regarding our people, our efforts toward gender diversity did pay out and building on the strong progress achieved by the end of 2025, we are now launching a new 2030 sustainability roadmap with increased ambition across both environmental and social dimensions. Regarding our people, again, at SPIE, our employees are our greatest asset with 55,000 talented and highly committed professionals, including 2,700 apprentices. In 2025, our recruitment strategy led to approximately 7,400 new hires. The resignation rate continued to decrease, standing at 5.9% in 2025 compared with 6.6% in '24 and 7.3% in '23. To the taxonomy, after 6 years of measuring our progress, the share of our revenues aligned with the EU taxonomy reached 50% in 2025, which makes us a top performer within the SBF 120. SPIE is part of the solution and a key enabler for energy transition. Looking at our carbon footprint. Today, SPIE's direct carbon footprint is 30% below its 2019 level, beating our 2025 target of a 25% reduction. This performance is mainly driven by the widespread adoption of electric vehicles across our fleet, a critical lever for us, since vehicles account for around 90% of our Scope 1 and 2 emissions. And on Scope 3, when we say that 68% of our suppliers are now engaged in reducing their carbon footprint, it's important to understand that it means more than 3,300 suppliers. Moving now to our outlook for 2026. We anticipate another year of strong financial performance. We are targeting a strong total growth, driven by further organic growth and active Bolt-on M&A. We aim at continued expansion of our EBITA margin, obviously translated to 100% cash conversion. The proposed dividend payout ratio will remain at 40% of adjusted net income attributable to the group. And now to the governance evolution. I informed the Board of Directors of my decision not to seek the renewal of my mandate of Chairman of the Board and CEO. I'm very pleased that the choice of the Board has fallen on Markus Holzke as the new CEO. Markus did build up Germany to become the largest segment and top contributor of the group. We have worked closely together for more than 13 years, and I am absolutely confident that he will be very successful in his new role. And looking at our 2028 guidance. In light of the remarkable progress achieved along our EBITA margin trajectory, we are upgrading our 2028 margin ambition. We now expect EBITA margin to expand further to reach 8% by 2028, resulting in EBITA surpassing EUR 1 billion by the end of the period. Our other financial targets remain unchanged. Thank you very much for your attention. And before we move to Q&A, just in case you would have forgotten, let me repeat once again, it's a good time to be a European electrical engineer.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Aleksander Peterc from Bernstein.

I just have a few questions, if I may. But first of all, thank you, Gauthier, for your excellent service as the head of SPIE. You will be missed. I'm very sure of that. So first of all, on the organic sales growth in '26, can you tell us if you will be within the 3% to 4% range? I know you don't give precise guidance at this time of the year, but it would be helpful to understand if the biggest moving part is France, meaning that if France is just flat, you will be able to reach that 3% range. And if it's below, you could be a touch below and conversely above -- a touch above that 3% lower limit. And then the second question is, when I look at the pro forma indicators in your financial report, I can see that you would have printed an EBITA margin of 7.8% already in '25 had all of the acquisitions been acquired from the 1st of January. Does this mean that this 7.8% margin is already in the bag for the year and you can actually do a bit better with some improvement in other -- in your core businesses and the economies of scale and so on?

Well, towards the 2026 organic growth, well, as you know, we don't give a precise guidance at this stage. And I think it's fair to say that the trend of -- long-term trends of our business remain unabated and unchanged compared to what we have experienced over the last years. There are a number of moving parts, including obviously the view on France, which remains in muted backdrop and with a number of uncertainties. We have other areas where we see a very positive trend. So far, we will remain as we said, and I will not make any bet on exactly where we're going to be at the end of the year. Regarding your second question, I think it's -- our calculation is that the pro forma EBITA for '25 with the contribution of the acquisition is 7.7%. It's clear that we are aiming at further progressing the margin, and we are very confident regarding the guidance we have given 2028. And you will see we expect that 2026 we mark further progress towards that goal. So there is no hesitation whatsoever in this regard.

The next question comes from Remi Grenu from Morgan Stanley.

Really appreciated the discussions over the last few years and all the best for what's coming next. Just a few questions on my side. So the first one is on Germany. So clearly reaccelerated in Q4 after the slight weakness and phasing impact in Q3. Can you provide maybe more details on the current trading? And if we should extrapolate the level of organic growth you had in Q4 as a little bit more underlying potential and what's expected from this year? And if that acceleration has anything to do with potential government investment or what we've heard from infrastructure spending starting to really hit the market? So yes, first question on Germany. The second one is on France. So on top of the organic growth, I think the margin declined a little bit in the second half of the year. So I just want to understand what's happening there and if we should expect the trend to continue if it was about pricing or just the impact of lower organic growth? And the third one is on your acquisition, so ROFA. Can we have more details about that company, maybe the growth rate over the last few years, country exposure because I think that there are some exposure to China and the U.S. there. So what the company is doing in these countries? And would be great also to have any more information on what they actually do and who they compete with, so we have a good understanding of what they do.

Yes. So regarding current trading in Germany, we have been more impacted than usual by winter, clearly which is something that we're going to catch up. But winter was harsh this year, as you all know. But other than that, when we look at the current level of order intake and level of activities on the areas which are not impacted by weather, we're doing fine. So no worries about that. So it's not a direct extrapolation in Q4, clearly for Q1 for the reason I just mentioned. The underlying trends are strong, and we are continuously further building backlog in energy infrastructure. So very, very confident for the whole year in Germany. The infrastructure spending, I think it would be fair to say that it's not hitting the market yet in terms of call for tenders or orders. It has definitely an impact on the confidence level and the mood of our customers in Germany, which is good also for what we do in Tech FM, et cetera, because the level of spend is steady. But not an impact yet. It's going to come. And clearly, the political consensus around this package is now very strong and well established. So again, very confident for the year in Germany. Regarding France, we expect trends to be maybe not dissimilar to last year. As you know, we are mainly impacted by 2 things. One is the optic fiber, which probably accounts for 1% organic growth decrease in our top line. This will still be a bit -- we still have a bit of this headwind in '26, but -- and should then end up plateauing towards the end of the year. And then the other headwind was on commercial installation. We've been very selective and this is always an area where price competition is the most fierce and especially when the economy is a bit down. So we've been selective, and we really concentrated on high-value contracts such as data centers, for example, and we had a few interesting success in this regard. So we have built up a very decent backlog, and we expect less headwind this year from this area. And as you pointed out, margins are very resilient, and we have an agile cost base. We are extremely disciplined on pricing. So we did show a very resilient margin in France this year. With regard to ROFA, we're talking a growth rate that is in the low to mid-single digit all together. It's very good margins. So they are active in the industrial automation business and in intralogistics. So these are areas where there's a constant high level of spend, with factory technology evolving fast. When they work in China or the U.S. to accompany a German customers, so they build on their know-how and their relationship with these customers in Germany and accompany them in other geographies where basically the erection is done locally, but all the engineering and systems preparation is done in Germany. I think it's very much a German content and a bit of local erection.

The next question comes from Rory McKenzie from UBS.

Rory from UBS. Gauthier, I want to say congratulations on your career at SPIE. Although I can't believe that after all your efforts over the years, you're now going to negatively impact the staff turnover ratio. My first question was about the outlook for margins in France, which is now behind 3 other divisions. Which areas are you seeing pressure? Are you currently expensing many costs in terms of moving people around to reposition? And I guess, ultimately, do you expect France to improve its margins by 2028 in these targets? And then secondly, I just want to ask more about ROFA. Can you just explain how it fits into the existing German business? It sounds like a newer area or certainly a lot bigger exposure here now. So how does it sit alongside Robur? How much overlap is there? And are there longer-term plans to expand these services across the rest of Europe?

Well, regarding margin, so France, I mentioned the two areas where we've seen the most of difficulties last year. I could have mentioned that other areas have been doing well. For instance, technical facilities, we did saw growth last year. And we also had a bit of growth in Industrial Services. And these areas are at good margins. So it does help as well. We are not worried about the level of margin in France. If at all if we see it moving, it will be upwards. I think we have reacted quickly to the situation. We have adapted the cost base, both the variable part and the fixed cost base. So it's -- we think we are bottoming out in '25 in terms of margin for France. And regarding ROFA, it is an area, they have the customer in the logistics, in some customer in the defense, some customer in the automotive sector. And we think that we'll be able to open up a broader area of other customers for them, thanks to the platform of Robur customers. So we do expect commercial synergies in this regard. And clearly, in an area which is evolving fast, which is exposed to a lot of technological upgrade and to also a need of the customer to adapt quickly. So we do expect commercial synergies to happen. The company is very well run. And so it's fairly lean as well. So we don't expect a lot of cost synergies. It's more really on the top line side.

The next question comes from Eric Lemarie from CIC CIB.

Yes. I've got 3 questions, if I may. So first one on the 2028 margin guidance of 8%. Could you tell us if you expect some convergence of the margin by segments between France, Germany and the other areas in Europe? So I'm not talking about GSI, but more about the segment. Second question on the governance. Could you tell us if Markus speak French? And could you tell us where he will be based, will he be based in Paris region or in Germany? And I know you can't answer to that question, but I was surprised you didn't want to stay as Chairman. I don't know if you can tell us something about that. And the last question on GSI. It's still relatively small in terms of revenues and it's very profitable. And you just announced this acquisition in Australia. And I was wondering if you -- if SPIE plans to maybe accelerate on the M&A for this GSE segment in order to make it larger.

So regarding the margin guidance, well, we think every segment will continue to progress. We mentioned the strong catch-up last year of Central Europe. The year before, we had seen quite a good step-up of Belgium as well within the Northwestern segment. But we definitely see more and more potential in Germany, in the Netherlands, by far not the end of teaser, and the other segment will contribute as well. So it's really a global effort of the company. But clearly, when I look forward, I see Germany and Netherlands leading the pack. But again...

You mean you see Germany and Netherlands leading the pack in terms of million euro or in terms of margin? I mean, do you expect...

No, in terms of margin progress. In terms of margin, which, by the way, converts into million euro because Germany is the largest segment. So it will be the largest segment with the best margin. So you see it's a major contributor. It's the #1 contributor.

Of course, yes.

Regarding -- so talking of Markus, yes, it does speak French. It's probably -- we will further work on it, it's fair to say, but it does speak French and he will be based in Cergy at our headquarters. And regarding the -- Chairman, well, I think it's a very French thing to do to remain as a Chairman when you've been CEO. There are a number of countries where it is forbidden. I think it's for a good reason because you need the new CEO to take his full role. And especially in my case because I've been there for so long, I think it would not be rendering him a service to be hovering around. So we worked very closely with Markus for 12 years. I think we know each other inside out. I think I know that he has all the qualities to fulfill the job, and it's better that I give him some breath. And the last thing, I've been very hands-on for all this years. So I'm not sure I would re-enjoy the nonexecutive stuff. Regarding the GSE acquisition, it's -- I think it's a very good move. We are now reinforcing a presence in a good area for energy -- for energy transition. There's a lot to do in Austria in this regard. It's also skewed towards renewable energy, this acquisition. So it was a very good opportunity. We need to focus on integration, and will we see whether we see further opportunities going forward. But at the moment, one thing at a time, and it's far away, and we have a good setup down there since 2012, but this is a further step, and we really need to concentrate on the quality of acquisitions.

The next question comes from Laurent Gelebart from BNP.

Three questions on my side. The first one regards France. Do you expect organic growth in France to improve versus 2025? That's the first one. The second one is on ROFA, could you let us know when you are going to close the deal, i.e., for competition for the modeling? And can you explain a bit the business model, i.e., what is the share of recurring activity at ROFA? Is it bigger orders proportional sales compared to the other activity of SPIE or more or less similar? And what is the share of new builds versus basically maintenance stuff. And the last one regards AI. Do you believe that AI could cause pricing pressure or not at all for your activities?

So regarding organic growth in France, again, we don't give you an answer per segment, but I think I've mentioned the two headwinds we had last year. I think the fiber optic will remain a drag, but it will be different in the commercial business. So I don't see it worsening, that's for a start, and I don't expect that it will be improving compared to 2025. Regarding ROFA, the closing will be in...

Very likely towards the end of Q2. So you may fairly assume 6 months contribution for the year.

And regarding the activity, it is -- there is a share of upgrades and not too much maintenance, which is, by the way, a synergy we might really develop because their customers would like to take a part of the maintenance of the installation, but they do focus on installation of small or medium-sized projects and one of slightly larger. It's a very recurring customer base. So there's a very solid customer base. And these customers tend to modify the installation on a regular basis with a rapid change in technology. So it is a very, very strong relationship with the customer in a series of discrete projects.

And on AI?

Regarding AI, well, it's hard to say. First of all, it does create opportunities, as we've mentioned in the past regarding the sheer amount of data, which is needed, which has to be stored, transported backup, et cetera. So we've seen increase of data centers and much more powerful data centers than in the past. And we're looking at data centers at 16,000 watts per square meter where 15 years ago, we're talking 2,000 to 3,000 watts per square meter. So it's a totally different kettle of fish. Well, we use it also to create opportunities with our customers because we are now able to much better understand, describe the way the assets work. So we have a large number of initiatives in this regard. We have a few productivity issues as everybody, but it's not really something major with us, productivity gains. And whether it does create price pressure or not at all whatsoever, as we look at it now. It just creates business opportunities with helping our customers to better understand their assets.

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing remarks.

Well, thank you very much for your attention. It's -- for me, it is the last of this financial results presentation. Obviously I'm -- I thank you for the interest you take in SPIE. And again, I can only repeat that it's a good time to be an electrical engineer. It has been, for me, a very good time to be an electrical engineer, and I'm sure that Markus will take the company to new heights.n I'm really confident about the future of SPIE. Thanks a lot.