Steel Strips Wheels Limited ($513262)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Steel Strips Wheels Limited Q4 FY 2026 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Gulshan Singh from Sunidhi Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Thank you, ma'am. Good morning, everyone. On behalf of Sunidhi Securities, I would like to welcome you all to Q4 FY '26 Earnings Call of Steel Strips Wheels Limited. Today, we have with us Mr. Dheeraj Garg, Managing Director; Mr. Rahul Kumar, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Aditya Dixit, Executive Director, International Marketing and Operations; and Mr. Pranav Jain, Vice President, Finance. We will start our opening comment from the management team post which we will open the floor for Q&A. Now I will hand over the call to management team. Over to you, Dheeraj sir.

Good morning, everyone. I hope everyone is doing well. And I hope that you have had an opportunity to go through the financial results and investor presentation, which we have uploaded on our website as well as on the stock exchange. Okay. Finally, so I'm also very pleased to share with you that we have delivered our highest ever revenue, registering a growth of 17% Y-o-Y. Last year was an excellent year for us, barring the second quarter, which really broke our momentum in the middle of the financial year. But after that, we picked up and we did really well, and I'll talk about that later on in my speech and my questions -- question-and-answer session. So -- and coming to the current quarterly performance, the company reported a revenue of INR 1,475 crores as compared to a revenue of INR 1,234 crores in the corresponding period last year, reflecting a growth of about 20% year-on-year. This quarter witnessed healthy momentum across alloy wheels, tractor and commercial vehicle segments supported by improved domestic demand. And I can -- and everyone knows why the domestic demand went up because of the GST cuts in October. EBITDA with other income for the quarter stood at INR 152.52 crores, which again is the highest ever done in a single quarter. Of course, the performance was supported by better operating leverage because we had higher utilization and we had also higher contribution from premium products. When I say premium products, I mean alloy wheels, I mean truck wheels, I mean tractor wheels. And so this helped us attain our highest ever EBITDA in the fourth quarter. For the full year, the revenue stood at INR 5,183 crores as against a revenue of INR 4,429 crores in the previous year. This amounts to a growth of 17% year-on-year. And of course, this is the highest ever revenue in the company's history. EBITDA with other income for the whole year stood at INR 523 crores. And again, this is the highest ever EBITDA we have done. And the profit after tax stood at INR 202 crores, which is slightly less last year, mainly because of the higher depreciation we have accounted for this year, that is about INR 28 crores. But going forward, given the fact that you have been able to achieve our capitalization and achieve higher capacity, and we also have great orders to use these capacities for. We expect a PAT growth of about 15% to 20% this year. So this is based on the fact that we feel that all our segments in the domestic area and export area will do flourishingly well. Last year, I can also mention to you that the second quarter really hurt us in 2 ways. The first thing was the exports took a big hit when America slapped tariffs all across the world. And especially India was cornered in a way against our competitors. But of course, now things have turned -- the revenue -- the tariffs are similar to all the nations. And in fact, there is an increased demand from India now given the fact that there are certain investigations going on against our competitors in Southeast Asia for antidumping evasion -- antidumping duties. The EBITDA for the whole year per wheel, now as we talked about so many times that we always talk EBITDA in terms of per unit realization because raw material prices skew the percentages. So I want everyone to understand this. I'm sure there are people who listen to us before that we only focus on the EBITDA per unit. So EBITDA per unit was flat at INR 260, INR 262 the whole year and it was same as the year before, mainly because we saw a drop of about INR 108 crores in export revenue, which would have contributed about INR 15 crores in EBITDA, plus the lower utilization of the facility in Chennai, both truck and exports resulted in higher costs. But if you take these 2 variables away, we would have ended up at an EBITDA of INR 274, which is about INR 12 better than the previous year. But of course, this is all hypothetical because the reality is that this is a number. But going forward, we are projecting EBITDA per wheel of close to INR 300. And I'll explain to you in my question-and-answer session as to why we are projecting such a high EBITDA -- as high growth of EBITDA. But in terms of granularly breaking up the business, the alloy wheel segment continued to be one of the strongest growth drivers of the company. It grew about 30% in value. And this is, again, supported by premiumization of vehicles demanding more aluminum wheels. And since we are at the top 2 position in the country, we ended up benefiting -- we will end up -- we ended up benefiting a lot from this growth. And now alloy wheels contributed about 36% of our total revenue. So this is quite a good thing for us, even though the volume growth may not be so much in single digit, but the value growth is in double digits owing primarily to aluminum sales going up. So this is a very important point to be noted that increase in aluminum segment increases the revenue by more than the volume. I also would like to add within the aluminum segment, we have started a business making aluminum knuckles. And this also showed good progress, but not great, great progress, but it still added a value to us and this will continue to grow. So we have added capacity in the aluminum knuckles segment to almost 0.5 million. And this year, we expect much better utilization in the Aluminum segment. Again, the tractor segment did tremendously well. It grew beyond 20% -- around 19%, I believe, and this continues to grow. This is a sweet spot for us. It brings down our cost of production because we have consistent volumes all across the year. And they are, again, very high value-added items. So this helps us again to increase the value of the export -- or value of the turnover. Again, the third segment is the commercial vehicle segment. This segment grew about 10%. This would have been much bigger had the second quarter not come as a cropper. We all know that the truck segment just collapsed in the second quarter, and it was quite a shock. I think last 5 years low, post-COVID low, it was like a post-COVID low last year in the second quarter, but then it remarkably recovered. And today, we are again foreseeing a tremendous demand. This is mainly because of structural reasons like vehicle replacement and I think, increased activity after the GST cuts, 2 things are playing a big role in this. On the export front, our exports declined by 19%. And as I mentioned earlier, that this is mainly because of the Trump tariffs. But now that there is a level playing field and also talk about the fact that India might get a preferential access to the U.S. market. And as you all know, that the U.S. delegation is in India, as we speak, and if something good comes out, then of course -- and I will let my colleague, Aditya talk about it right after I speak to explain more about the export segment. So what are the challenges we are facing at this moment? I think right now, the energy costs, the availability of manpower. I'm sure everyone knows about this, but they have been tremendous since the war started. But luckily, your company has been able to sort out majority of its issues compared to the competition in India. In fact, we've gained market share at the expense of the others. But again, I can say that in this quarter, although we were talking about the previous year, but in this quarter, we've lost close to about INR 80 crores of sales because of lack of manpower. Manpower is the biggest issue in our business at the moment. But the good news is that post 20th of May, things have stabilized. And as we speak today, there is 0 shortage of manpower. So you can take that as a takeaway from this speech that manpower issues have been resolved this year -- so I -- have been resolved now in May and the first quarter hit for loss of revenue is about INR 80 crores. But even then we've done a strong -- almost close to INR 500 crores a year, INR 6,000 crore run rate so far. And I think in June, you will see tremendous, tremendous results. Again, we will clock the highest revenue and since the labor is there. And I think the market is still resilient in spite of the fact that some OEMs are suffering loss of production because the other vendors aren't able to supply. So it's quite a complicated situation, but we foresee great demand in the export segment. So all in all, I can tell you that this month should be our highest number in sales. And so main thing is that this year, as I've mentioned in the past that we've embarked upon a capital expansion. We've started utilizing our AMW facility in Bhuj and we are setting up 2 projects there. One is for aluminum wheels and the other is for aluminum knuckles. So the aluminum wheels is going to be close to 1.2 million wheels, and knuckles is going to be about 1.1 million wheels. So close to 1.2 million, 1.2 million each side and this will entail a CapEx of about INR 500 crores. And we are all to have these 2 projects commissioned by the end of the year, not commissioned per se, but at least trial production, trial runs will happen by -- from -- starting from October and culminating in maybe, let's say, January and both these plants should be able to get approvals from the OEMs, et cetera. And so we should see some revenue coming out. I cannot quantify the revenue because we still have to execute the projects in these time lines and hope for approval on time. So leaving that aside, the expansion will be completed this year, and we will have a net addition in capacity, and we will be at about 6.2 million in aluminum wheels. And about -- I think aluminum knuckles is going to be done in 2 phases. The first phase would entail about 600,000 and the second entail another 500,000. So end of this financial year, we will be at about 1.2 million, 1.1 million in knuckles and another 0.5 million will come next year. So I think one should look back at my speech last year in all the meetings that have come through that this is the best period of our life in terms of the history of the company. And it was true, except the second quarter and now with the GST cut really buoying the market, I think I can say that this year, I'm even more confident because the tariff situation in America has rationalized and we have great demand. And we couldn't be in a better -- I mean, last year, we did about 76%, 78% utilization steel plants. This year, we're looking to utilize 95%. So this is another takeaway that we are looking at almost 100% utilization of all our assets, all of our assets that are commissioned. So that should bestow a lot of revenue growth. So -- and so when we make this prediction of about 15% to 20% growth in PAT, it is based on this very premise that we will run our plants at almost 100% utilization. As a closing statement, I think -- this is just a summary. So to close out the whole thing, I would ask Aditya to explain what he feels about the export market. Over to you, Aditya.

Thank you, sir. Good morning, everyone. So the outlook for exports for this year looks very promising. Two key reasons for that. One is we definitely think that the tariff situation in the U.S. is pretty much it has come under control and we expect further improvement in terms of having greater access to the market based on the trade deal negotiations that are going on as we speak in Delhi. So we expect some favorable outcome out of there. And the second thing that we have done in the last couple of years, I think we had touched upon this in one of our prior calls is to reduce the dependency on the U.S. market per se. So in the last couple of years, we have worked very diligently on addressing business in Europe, in LatAm and in the Asia. So we were nominated, we were awarded with these projects in the last 18 months or so and the ramp-up of all these projects, be it both -- I mean, it's going to be both aluminum as well as steel. So we see a lot of ramp-up of these nominated projects happening in this year. So we feel that we should be able to recover the lost ground of last financial year, especially in the exports because of these 2 key reasons. And I feel this year is going to be much, much stronger than where we ended up on in exports in the last year. So yes, overall, as I said, and as Mr. Garg just now mentioned that given all our plants will be running almost at full capacity and exports coming back, and so we feel that there should be much, much improvement on the overall EBITDA and overall capacity utilization and deliverables of the company.

And I think you can mention about the number of value that you're foreseeing in this year in exports.

So given these 2 key assets, we believe that the exports should be in the range of INR 600 crores in this financial year. And if at all, they should be a little more, but it's definitely in that range of INR 600 crores.

And this would be the second highest ever. The first highest was just after COVID, and this would be second -- this is really remarkable. And this is based on a diversified portfolio. Earlier, during the post-COVID times we were dependent majority -- majorly on the U.S. market. But now as Aditya mentioned that we are -- we've got access [indiscernible] to the market. We've got access to the European market. And of course, the U.S. market has come back. So all in all, INR 600 crores is very, very workable, very, very easily workable.

And one more thing I would just like to add up over here is the nominated businesses are from the OEMs where we see much larger stability in terms of the monthly volumes. So we are -- that really adds up to the confidence that we have that the exports should be back on track and rather much, much stronger this year.

I think we are open to questions and answers. I think this is all we have for the moment.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Devarsh Shah from Sunidhi Securities.

My question was what would be the mix between PV and CV in FY '26 as compared to FY '25? And how do you see this mix to be shaping in FY '27 and FY '28? Because I think so in previous calls, you had mentioned that we make higher margins in CV. So how do you see the margin trajectory for FY '27 and FY '28?

Okay. So if you have -- if I understood you correctly, you're asking about the margin numbers, margin -- what would be the margin growth or what would be our margins per wheel per unit, right? Can we speak on in absolute terms, right?

Yes, yes.

Yes. So as I said in my speech, we're looking at a margin of INR 300 this year, close to INR 300, which would compare -- which compared against INR 272 that we've just finished is almost a 10% increase in the EBITDA per wheel. And given the higher volume of wheels that we foresee, we are looking this year, it's close to INR 650 crores in EBITDA. And it could be plus/minus here and there, but mostly, if things pan out on the higher side. So we could be touching even higher than INR 650 crores. And with regards to your question, what would happen in 2027. Then you have to take into account that our expansion in knuckles and our expansion in the aluminum factory in Bhuj would add another INR 800 crores, INR 700 crores, INR 800 crores. And as you know, these are premium products with the premium margins. So I think '27 would be big. And I also would like to add something that I've spoken about in the past, and I'm sure you have listened to us in the past. I have mentioned that the business that was the worst -- the worst in our portfolio of the steel wheel business will take a turnaround because we have been able to -- after 2 decades of very, very poor pricing, put a foot down to the OEMs and said, "Look, this pricing is not available anywhere in the world, and we will not service you on those numbers." And luckily, we've got increases, as I mentioned to you last year from a very big OEM in steel wheels for us, the biggest for us. And now subsequently, all the new projects that are rolling out are with very solid margins. So I think the margin profile from INR 300 should be higher, maybe another 10% on a conservative estimate in '27, '28. So I think all in all, we are now absolutely poised barring any disruption that is beyond our control. And as I mentioned to you in the past, we are working on automation. We are working on productivity. So all the wage increases, I'm sure there will be a question on wage. We are very hopeful that we will earn our way out of the way. So our productivity will be through automation, through AI, through usage of our assets at a 95%, 100% level will mean that our labor cost will not be a trouble for us. And we will achieve the EBITDA that I just mentioned to you. Our business is based on volume. And if the volumes are good, the costs come down. Last year second quarter, we suffered because the volumes went down. So it's not only the sales loss but also the manufacturing costs going up, the fixed cost going up because there's lack of revenue. So all these things are turning the other way in our favor. And which means what I'm saying is very, very feasible in terms of EBITDA per wheel and revenue for the whole year.

The next question comes from Aman Kothari from Aequitas Investments.

Firstly, congratulations on a wonderful set of results. Sir, can you just help me with what the EBITDA per wheel was for Q4?

Q4 was I think INR 282. I think INR 282.

INR 282. That does much better than what our expectation was.

Yes, Yes, this is what I'm saying. The second quarter destroyed our profitability, I mean, in terms of what we were expecting it to be. So when I say INR 300 for next year, it is based on the fact that I've achieved INR 282.

Got it. Got it. And sir, this month, I think we got the monthly update just a day before yesterday. So we saw heavy growth in 2-wheelers and 3-wheeler segment of 50% value growth and close to 30% volume growth. Can you just help me with how the trajectory is looking for 2-wheelers and the product line that we are targeting?

So I'm so glad that you asked this question because this -- I missed this out. So what I have to tell everyone is that we are the #1 supplier of EV wheels, wheels for EV scooters, EV 3-wheelers. And we have a technology that nobody in India has. And so all the OEMs depend on us. Unfortunately, because of labor shortages in the past, we couldn't deliver. But last month, the month -- in the month of -- in the month of May, we had a higher sales in the EV segment. And this is a profitable segment for us. It is a value-added segment. It requires a lot of R&D, and it's been a struggle for the last 2 years. But luckily, our team has pulled their socks and now we are able to produce. We don't have manpower shortage. We don't have structural issues with manufacturing those wheels. And this will continue to grow. I could sell maybe 30% more had I had labor last month. So that there is demand, and I'm only one fulfilling this demand. So yes, this looks great to us. I haven't projected -- but I think easily, it will be 25% growth or maybe more. I could be terribly wrong here, but it could be more than that growth for the whole year in the EV segment. Maybe close to 40%.

Got it sir. And this is the only product that we are going to go forward with for the 2-wheeler and 3-wheeler segment?

So 2-wheelers ICE segment is really not big because the pricing is a problem there, but we are fighting for a price increase there. And that again will add to revenue. But we don't have a -- we have about a 30% market share with the customers. But in the EV space, which is -- EV is growing. EV is growing much faster than ICE, right? And when I say EV, I'm not talking -- this is a segment that's open for -- this is a scooter segment. This is not the motorcycle segment, this is the scooter segment, but this is really growing well. I mean we're talking about more than 100,000 sales, maybe 110,000 sales in EV scooters every month. And this is going to continue. This is going to continue because the quality is improving in the EV scooters and of course, they are not polluting and the low maintenance. And now with the energy prices going up, people prefer EV scooters over ICE scooters.

So in this market, we're tight, since we have a 30% market share, you would be tied up with the top OEM suppliers in the EV scooter space?

As I said, in the EV scooter space, I'm almost 80%. I'm almost a monopoly in this. But in the ICE segment I said I'm 30%. So yes, as the EV scooters do well, you could just pick 80% volume coming to us.

Perfect. Perfect. And sir, just on the side...

Sorry to interrupt you, can you please join back the queue for more questions? The next question comes from Nishita Shanklesha from Sapphire Capital.

So I just had a few clarifications. So you mentioned that from the new Bhuj facility, we can add another INR 700 crores. That is on top line level or on margins can be like INR 700 crores?

Topline. Obviously, topline madam.

Okay. Okay. And so you will see this facility operation in Q4, right? Q4 of FY '27?

Yes, Q4 of the financial year. That is correct, ma'am.

So how fast will we ramp up to like almost 100% utilization because...

Yes, great question. I think I missed out answering this in detail. We are almost sold out. As Aditya mentioned, that we have a lot of traction in the aluminum space. We are growing our market share in the Indian market, plus we are exporting. And right now, we are unable to service our export market because the lack of manpower and what have you. But things now the financial year has just started. And -- we are sold out for this year. Next year also, we project that we will be able to sell out most of the production there. So you can expect about -- in '27, '28, you can expect about 70% utilization there. So yes, I think those facilities are sold out. And we've won new businesses in the knuckle space. And we're also going to try the export market for knuckles. There is traction from our existing OEM customers who buy wheels from us. And I'm very sure that we'll close out those deals. And then maybe next year will surprise you with 100% utilization.

Right. So like you mentioned that we are sold out. So like are we going to see any revenue coming in from this facility in FY '27?

FY '27. As I said, I cannot comment on the value of growth -- value of revenue because we have to get approvals from the customers. But yes, the fourth quarter will be the year when we hope we will get all approvals, some earlier some later. So I wouldn't speculate on that revenue number because I myself not sure about that. But yes, the year after that, FY '28, we expect about 70% or higher utilization in these assets.

Okay. Okay. Understood. And what kind of margins do we see from this facility?

Again, very nice margins because our growth has been driven by the aluminum segment and these 2 products come into the aluminum segment. And so I think it should be fantastic.

The next question comes from Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co.

So first, a clarification. For this year, we are looking at EBITDA per wheel at INR 300, and we had an exit of INR 282 for Q4. We are expecting an EBITDA number at closer to the vicinity of INR 650 crores with an upward bias for FY '26, '27.

You're absolutely right.

Okay. Now to my first question, sir, you mentioned about INR 700 crores to INR 800 crores revenue addition from the Bhuj facility. This is at optimum level we will be adding the revenue?

Yes, at optimum at full utilization.

Okay. Sir, on the debt number, how will then our debt profile be shaping up going ahead? Secondly, sir, when we look at our last 2 months submission to the exchanges, the export has seen decline only for the month of April and May. So we are sticking to the number of INR 600 crores, wherein we did INR 160 crores for the last financial year.

No, no. So last financial year, the number is higher than INR 168 crores. Aditya, can you help us what that number is?

Last financial year, we did about INR 454 crores of exports.

Sorry, that correct me there. Okay. It was about the steel that we did INR 160 crore.

Steel what?

Sorry, sir, I'm wrong. I stand corrected there. I was looking at Page 12 of our presentation, wherein we have mentioned about the volume for the steel be at INR 160 crores. I missed it with the. So correct, INR 450 crores will go to INR 600 crore. That is what the number is.

Yes. Again, a very conservative number. Yes. So what was the earlier part of your question. I'm sorry confused here. What was the first question that you asked?

I was asking about, firstly, the debt profile. How will our debt profile will look like?

And so I think this financial year, our debt was similar that closed exited, was close to the number that we had in the previous year, all the turnover went up by about INR 1,000 crores or something like that. I think what was the growth in turnover, 17%? Pranav?

Yes. Yes, at 17%.

So next year, as I mentioned in my speech that we are investing about INR 500 crores in the CapEx expansion, plus there will be some brownfield expansion that usually happens about INR 50 crores. The debt profile would be about INR 200 crores higher. But again, these are projections. We will see how the margins evolve. And these projections are based on a volume -- on EBITDA of about last year's level. So we are projecting very conservatively, but for your books for your models, I think you can assume a INR 200 crore increase in debt. But again, we will review this at the end of September, and we'll come back to you on where we stand. But yes, for your modeling, you please assume INR 200 crores increase in debt.

Okay, sir. So taking into account what the current -- whatever the current maturities are in the totality, it will be higher by INR 200 crores. So INR 800 crores number will go to INR 1,000-plus crores further?

Yes. And the turnover will be close to INR 6,500 crores versus INR 5,143 crores this year. And so -- but yes, the next financial year would be where we end up utilizing all our assets, expansion comes into play. And then I can tell you that we could be looking at about -- around INR 700 crores -- between INR 700 crores to INR 750 crores EBITDA in the next financial year. But this financial year, yes, more or less, we should be around that number, INR 650 crores plus/minus, and then next year INR 700 crores plus/minus. So that's the range I can give you from INR 650 crores to INR 750 crores is the range possible going forward.

And during the call -- do we have Mr. Joshi also in the call sir, we have not seen in the presentation his name also. Mr. Mohan Joshi?

No, he is not in the call at the moment. He has some issues, family issues that he's attending to.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Ajit Sethi from Eiko Quantum.

As we said, we will be 95% utilized for steel. So how can we see going forward the capacity of steel wheel addition?

So steel wheel addition, we have done some brownfield expansion in our portfolio, and we've raised our capacity primarily in the tractor segment. But we also added a paint shop. In fact, we've added 2 paint shops. And so I think that will take our capacity to close to, let's say, I cannot tell you the exact number, but we will be increasing our tractor capacity by, let's say, 15% to 20% OTR and -- and also, we will be adding some capacity in the car line, but that is still under discussion as to how to sort of set it up. But that expansion of the paint shops and this rim lines that you are hoping to put together in Chandigarh will come around October to December period. And again, that will add sales. So when I say 95% utilization, I mean the existing assets will be running at 95%. And this additional facility will add again delta revenue. So I think the fourth quarter this year -- in this financial year will be a number that will be -- that will surpass our expectations. So that's why I'm giving you a range on the EBITDA. So it all depends on how the market does and from all our senses that we perceive at the moment from our OEM customers, they all see a strong, strong demand for their trucks or buses or tractors or even cars. In fact, there is a shortage in the car facility ironically, given the fact that aluminum has become so expensive and suddenly there are shortages in aluminum from the other suppliers and the customers are asking us for steel wheels. But I guess that's temporary, but still, given the rising cost of aluminum, the aluminum prices have almost gone up by, let's say 20% at the moment, and I think they are expected to go up another 10%. So OEMs probably will consider using more steel wheels. So yes, steel wheel facilities will be used at 95% and with the addition of the paint shops and the rim line, we will be able to increase our capacities.

Okay. And sir, just a clarification, you said you will be utilizing 80% of this new 1.2 million units of alloy wheels and the upcoming aluminum knuckle capacity in FY '28, right?

Yes. So this is a good question you raised. So I can tell you the premise for this. So as I said that the aluminum segment demand for aluminum wheels is tremendous, both domestically as well as in the export market. And so we are very, very confident of achieving this 80% utilization because we see the program that are going to be starting next financial year -- in this financial year, and we need capacity for that. So this expansion is coming. In fact, in my opinion, delayed by 4, 5 months. But nevertheless, we are very confident of selling that many aluminum wheels. On the knuckles front, we so far have traction from only 2 OEMs, and we are doing business with them. But you have to imagine that these knuckles are used in electric vehicles. And after this Gulf war crisis, the demand for electrical vehicles has gone up tremendously. And we are the sole supplier for knuckles right now in the market. And that helps us get -- win more businesses because people -- the OEMs are confident with us. And we are hoping to win 2 major businesses, and that would mean that our capacity is almost sold out. And if you add the exports that we are working on, I think this capacity may be utilized 100% next year. So I think I'm very sure about this coming through with 80% utilization and maybe almost 100%. And maybe the Phase 2 of the knuckles project will have to do it faster than we envisaged at this moment.

Next question comes from Pawan Kothari from Calcutta Metal Depot.

Congratulations on a very good set of Q4 numbers. I would like to ask I mean how different is our business from Wheels India Limited, like why -- like can you explain in a nutshell?

Okay. So Wheels India and our company have a very similar business, almost the same business. Look, we operate in the same segments, but they are not as big as us in the aluminum segment. They have just started out in the aluminum segment and they're very small compared to our business. They are in other diversified businesses, I believe, they are also making some hydraulic systems for...

Yes. Turbine mills and wind mills and also.

Yes. And they are a very old group, and they have many businesses. And wheels is one part of the business, and they also perhaps do some fabrication business. And they are into -- so in terms of size of the wheels business, we are bigger than them, thanks to our aluminum presence -- dominant aluminum presence. But in tractors, they are bigger than us, for example, but we are catching up. In cars, more or less similar numbers, I wouldn't have the latest numbers. Of course, they are not present in the EV segment yet, EV scooters, I mean. They don't service a 3-wheeler segment? And -- yes, this is all I would say. It's very similar businesses you can say.

And 1 small question because I deal in nonferrous metals like aluminum and copper, like we are -- since last 40 years we are into this business. So I want to know like how much of this rise in aluminum have you been able to pass on to the consumers? And like -- or is the rise being absorbed by us also? Or it is fully passed on currently?

Okay. So this question comes to me every meeting in the last so many decades. Let me repeat this because our raw material costs are a pass-through. So we don't either -- whether it rains or shines, the situation remains the same for us.

Okay. So you are -- you're not impacted by the aluminum volatility?

No. We are impacted. We have to use more working capital for sure.

I mean you can pass on the increase if there is suppose abnormal increase, say, from $3,500 per tonne suddenly, I suppose if it goes to [ $4,000 ]. So you can pass on -- that's what I want to say.

Yes. So right now, we pass it on in the same very month. Okay, not even with the lag. Earlier, it used to be with a lag with the 3-month lag. But after the war in the Gulf, we have made sure that the OEMs realize that we are not here to die because -- they were -- I mean we need to increase our borrowings because steel prices are also going up just for your information not only nontariff -- every metal price has gone up, energy prices have gone up, paint costs have gone up. I mean, this year is going to be a year when we will be -- our marketing department will be constantly recovering their cost -- the company's cost increases. So this needs to be borne out. And this is what the real strength of this company would be. If you recover all our costs, increase volumes, then we're going to achieve what we promised you.

The next question comes from Dev Mehta, an individual investor.

Am I audible?

Yes, sir.

Yes, you are.

So sir, I just wanted to ask if you can -- and specifically in the steel wheels segment, if you can provide the bifurcation of our end user mix, end user mix? What percentage comes from PV? What comes from CV, if you have the numbers?

I think, Pranav, would you have the number handy?

Yes, sir. 2 to 3 wheeler, it's around 2%. Car MUV including alloy and steel is 54%. OTR is a small number, 1%, 28% is the truck number and 13% is the tractor. Rest one is 1% in knuckles.

So pass car is 54%. Tractor is how much?

13%.

So tractor is 13%. CV is 28%. So 2 major pillars. So commercial vehicles, 28% and pass cars 54% and 13% is tractor. So that should sum it up for you.

Got it sir. And is it significantly different from that of Wheels India Limited?

I haven't looked at their numbers, but you could ask on the investor call.

I'm asking because do we have a lower realization mix in our product portfolio or the realization among all the segment is more or less the same? That is approximately INR 2,000 to INR 2,500 for the steel wheels.

Go ahead. Pranav, tell us what is steel wheels revenue?

Steel wheel revenue is roughly -- just hold on -- for the full year, you want to see?

No, sir. So I'm asking you the realization difference between the steel wheels among the different end users.

Okay. Average steel price -- steel selling wheel price and aluminum steel -- aluminum wheel selling price, yes. So it's almost a difference of INR 3,000 to INR 4,000, I think somewhere around that, but excluding trucks. Excluding trucks. Trucks and aluminum are similar numbers, almost similar numbers. The car segment is about, I think, INR 1200, I think, if I'm not mistaken, and the aluminum is about INR 5,000. So about INR 3,000 to INR 4,000 difference, yes.

Got it sir.

Due to paucity of time, this would be the last question for the day. Now I hand over the floor to management for closing comments.

Okay. So as I said during my speech, and I reiterate it again, and I hope when you come back next quarter for the investor call, you will question me on these very things. I'm repeating them for you again. The domestic demand is great. The problems have been with labor, with raw material availability, with costs. And we are surmounting all of these problems and successfully so far. So -- and if these volumes keep up as I'm foreseeing them to keep up, we expect a utilization of 95% in all our assets. And that will be the first ever time in the history since its inception that the company would have done such a feat. So please ask me questions based on what we have discussed today, and I'd be very happy to answer them next time again. Thank you very much, and you have a nice day. Bye-bye.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Door Sabha's Conference Call service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a pleasant day.