Systems Limited (SST) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Thank you, Roohi. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are. Welcome to the Investor and Analyst Briefing of Systems Limited. The format of the call will be a very brief management presentation followed by a Q&A session. And for that, there are a few housekeeping rules. [Operator Instructions]. And Sohail from Topline will be moderating this session. He will ask those questions, put those questions to Asif Peer and the management. There will be a few questions, which Roohi and I will be answering. So thank you very much, Sohail, for moderating. Over to you.

Thank you, Tahir, and thank you, everybody, for joining this investor briefing on Systems. So as you know that Systems is Pakistan's one of the largest listed IT company and software developer. And we have some updates and recent developments that the management wants to share with investors, both who are here in Pakistan and outside. So as Tahir mentioned that you need to just put your question in the question-and-answer window, and we'll try to get answers from the management. So we have the pleasure to have with us the CEO of Systems Limited, Mr. Asif Peer. So it's over to you, Asif.

Okay. So Again, thank you for joining. Good afternoon, good morning, good evening to all of you, and really looking forward for the session. So I will just have a very brief quick presentation, only 2 slides, not anymore, and would like to answer as many questions as anyone has. I think that's a purpose that we have recently done a couple of transactions and would love to answer any questions related to the recent one or the past one, and would love to make sure that enough information is provided, whatever we can. Okay. So next slide.So yes, I think the first that everyone has heard, and we have publicly disclosed the material information that we have acquired Confiz. But of course, the question is why we did that? That's the most important element, that what is the need? Why? What is the strategic fit? What is the cultural fit? How we can take the most out of it? So first, as I think most of the -- I'm assuming, most of who have joined at least now the Systems business at a high level and how we operate in North America today and current situation in Europe and Middle East and Africa and other -- all the continents. So we really want to -- of course, if you have been following Systems' journey, we have been massively growing very aggressively in GCC region. The Middle East has been a great performer and continue to be the great performer, and we see a huge growth path next year and years to follow. But we wanted to make sure that we don't leave the best markets in the world, which is North America and Europe, to other competitors, right? So we really want to leverage this positioning. Now we have built a scale. Earlier, we didn't have that much of a footprint like we can say that if we are a 1,000-people company, we couldn't make that kind of an impact. Once we go into North America with 10,000 people type of a story and a country's largest IT company and the largest brand in Microsoft and other principals, it gives some credibility to the North American and European market as well. So we're waiting for the right time that how we can make sure that we expand. Of course, we are doing business, but how we can double down on those geographies as well, while we continue the momentum on our strong footing, which is Middle East. But -- and there is a parallel stream where we don't want to lose that stream while we're team is very now well aligned. We have great customers, and we are signing up more customers in the Middle East. So we have a property structure. So we thought that this is the perfect timing that we need to enter and double down. And we are already here in the market through our associated company, but how we can double down and grow that share because as you all are reviewing our segment very closely, you would clearly see that Middle East is a winner. So Middle East will be the winner, but how we can catch up on other geographies. That's the principle. Because with the growth mindset, we do not want to have any segment, not like growing with a similar percentage or higher. So that's the concept behind it. So Confiz gives us that access point and entry point. And again, when we look at these acquisitions, we need enterprise customers. We don't need a small -- that's why I think history of Confiz is it's been in business for 20 years. In 20 years, bootstrapped 20 years of entrepreneurial spread. And growing from very small to that kind of where you can have one of -- a few Fortune 100 companies, the customer. And growing through just organically so far. So most of it is organic growth. So once you -- once we get the customer at Systems, it's a huge cross-sell and upsell opportunities because Confiz is largely operating in a Microsoft ecosystem with Data AI Cloud, but largely Microsoft, but not doing SAP and Salesforce and other stuff. So it means they are leaving the business to other -- while they are in the account, they are leaving the business to other partners. So how we can leverage that and get -- once the clients are there, once the MSA is there, which is very hard to get in North America, especially in Europe, especially how we can double down on those and grow exponentially in those accounts. And once the -- and the team is there, the setup is there, so how we can invest more and be aggressive because we have the financial muscles, we have the credibility, we have the credentials from -- and support from all principles. We have partnerships, as you know, in our partnership with status, all of these partners are global, not just limited to Middle East, their global presence as much immense than Middle East presence. So it really gives us synergy to and give a push for our growth journey. So again, it's one of top 3 IT companies in the country and from a system integration perspective. So the large setup, 700-plus people. And so it gives us like we are very close to 10,000 people globally. Hopefully, we will cross that next year. So 10,000 mark -- employee mark is also recognized in a global space that you have some scale, that you can compete with the big players. So the cultures are aligned, the retail CPG focus is aligned, innovation innovation empathy and customer obsession, I think they have not -- they don't lose the customers as they have been looking at once we do the due diligence, of course, that's key aspect that what is your customer churn, what's your employee churn and the leadership churn. I think all these 3 indicators are aligned like what Systems has. So that and these are the 3 important KPIs that you look at it for cultural integration and employee ownership. And I think employee ownership in their culture is the same or similar as Systems. That is what you need in services companies. That's why they are growing as a company because they believed in what we believed in as well as an employee ownership. So I think that's really planned well. And Systems is as a strong now, of course, with the workforce, with a great leadership, I think leadership is the key because with the leadership in Systems brand, we can create a multiplier effect, right? It's not 1 plus 1, it's a multiplier effect because we only need the leadership to scale. So AI-enabled digital transformation partner and having an access to a Microsoft U.S. directly in the U.K. and Europe, and other principles and other partnership, I think we are very excited with this relationship. And I think equally, the Confiz team is very excited as well because they believe in the purpose, what we carry, and we joined purpose ownership of growing and the Pakistan brand in IT sector -- in the IT ecosystem because they believe if we combine, it could be a multiplier effect versus they continue to do on their own. So we have a higher probability and higher chance of success together with this leadership. So we are excited to create high-value enterprise-led markets. And again, our focus is with so much case studies and the relationship and the references we have in the banking, telco, I think we can enter into U.S. through these vertical specialty as well as specialization. Next, so of course, as I shared earlier as well, this is a 20 years old company, deep specialization in retail and CPG. If you're Systems, you know that we are very deep focused on banking, financial services, telco, and the retail and CPG will add another one and which is very, very, like in North America and Europe, this is big. So that will complement and supplement our retail CPG expertise in North America and Europe already established. So Microsoft ecosystem, Confiz is a Microsoft gold partner. We are Inner Circle. So in Microsoft ecosystem, it's already a buzz everywhere actually. And they are also present in Middle East like Saudi and UAE, but of course, not like the large presence in U.S. and then Europe and then Middle East. So it's a perfect fit because Middle East is -- we are very strong. So if we can easily absorb and it created a buzz not just in the Pakistan IT sector within these 2 companies, but with the principle as well that, okay, these 2 companies -- because principal needs a delivery to their customers. And once they see that there is a depth of technology and the investment in the focus, it's one of the top priority, and we would be one of the top partner in the region for sure. We are already, we will further strengthen that. But in U.S., it will definitely give a strong message to existing Confiz customers and the future prospects and the leads that we generate jointly. So again, it complements our Microsoft skills, cloud, data, AI, what we do, advanced data analytics, cloud enablement, full stack engineering and consulting implementation and staff augmentation. Again, it's complementing what we do. So it's a nice cultural fit with the same purpose, with the same deep purpose that we all carry together. And I think I'm really excited with this transaction. And it's not just a transaction, I would say it will be a strategic pivot in Systems Limited history, and it's a historic moment that we acquired 1 of top 3 companies in the country. And of course, as I shared, as if you guys keep reading my director reports and our director reports and in the notes, we keep sharing that we are really focused on organic growth, and we will not leave any opportunity for inorganic growth as well. And we'll keep going into that path with not just Pakistan in the focus, now global focus as well, like getting companies globally as well. So we are on that path for the hyper growth and how we can sustain that through organic, inorganic growth and build the capability and build the brand, which is required to scale. Next. So I think I just said that a couple of slides, not take more than 10, 15 minutes, so exactly 15 minutes. And now, Sohail, you have enough time for Q&A.

Yes. So thank you very much for this focused and short presentation. So the questions are more on the recent acquisition of Confiz. So I think the main question that's coming here on the chat is about some indication on the valuation, some indication on the -- whether it would be a cash transaction or it would be a share swap. Any indication of what's the current -- as you mentioned, that Confiz is top 3 IT company in Pakistan. So what are their revenue numbers, profitability numbers? So once you Asif share these things, I think we'll have some other set of questions for you?

Yes. I think I'll give you a generic and specific answers for both. So one is that it's a share swap, 100% share swap deal. So there is no cash involved that systems is not paying any cash. Of course, there is a working capital what is required to run the business. Confiz will leave that as part of this transaction. So we don't have to even inject cash to run the company. So that is part of the deal. And we have roughly given like it's 1% to 3.8% to 4% of systems shares swap basically. So subject to, of course, regulatory approvals, and we have to go through the scheme filing and approval. Okay. And the second question -- sorry, you can hear. Second question that you asked about the size, they are about roughly 10% of system size.

So this 10% is, I think, in terms of revenue or profitability?

I think roughly give and take both bases, but yes, at least from a top line perspective.

Okay. So regarding the share swap, as you mentioned, there is no cash transaction, so which means you need to apply for the additional share issue other than rights, right?

Yes, additional share issues. Yes, that's a part of the scheme. As we indicated in our announcement, this is going through the share -- it's a scheme that is a court scheme that you go through M&A from that perspective.

And what time line you're seeing like when this will actually happen, the share swap and the consolidated accounts?

It's based on the Board approval than regulatory approval. Typical time line of these transactions is roughly 3 months or so. But of course, from -- in these schemes, you can have prior effective date as well. So Confiz will be -- actually, we will be starting like from 1st January of next year.

Okay. So there are some other sets of questions like for Confiz, as you have given a hint that it is 10%. So...

Roughly 10%.

Yes. So the dollar revenue per person in case of Confiz is higher than system. Any indication on that?

Because they work in U.S. and largely U.S., as I said, and very minimal Middle East and Pakistan business. So of course, there are on-site people in North America as well, and there are on-site people in Europe as well and offshore as well. But of course, North America and Europe revenue per employee is generally higher than as compared to -- as you have seen in our case as well, is higher -- generally higher, a little bit higher than Pakistan local domestic and Middle East business.

Okay. Any indication because a few shareholders who are already invested are asking about any kind of swap ratio and indication how much would the dilution would be?

As I said, like 3.8% to 4%, 3.8% to 4% is the range, subject to regulatory approval of systems dilution.

Okay. So the 4% would be dilution and around 10% would be increase in revenue and profitability?

Roughly is correct.

Okay. So coming to your previous transaction, any color on the BAT transaction, where it stands, what's happening there?

BAT, we have started the operation from 1st November of this year, 2025. So it is already in production and the business has started. And as business as usual now, as I'm really glad to report, very grateful to the teams of both companies, very well integrated, and it has been so far the first 45 days, knock on wood, seamless operation. So no major disruption or no major issues to report. So this has been started already. And this is, as I shared earlier as well, this has already given us the new vertical or horizontal offerings, which we didn't have before as well, like in Confiz case, we have a strategic market positioning in that BAT deal, we also had a strategic market positioning where we have marketing and finance outsourcing, special ones, not the regular BPO, very specialized BPO business, shared services business, which we are already seeing a great traction in the market when we talk about that. So that is really a new growth vertical. It's not just the one transaction which we do. Of course, that is a part which we have already shared, which we are working, but I think the growth -- we always look for the growth opportunities. So how we can double down and have a multiplier effect with the capability that we have acquired.

Okay. One more question related to Confiz is that PakWheels, I think, a related party. So the recent acquisition by Systems includes PakWheels or not?

No. There is no link. It's a very -- it's 2 separate legal entities, and it has nothing to do with it. Founder is the same, you can say that, but Founder has nothing -- there is no legal or financial association.

Okay. So that's a separate company. Correct.

Yes.

Okay. Another question is with some slowdown in Middle East with falling oil prices and with Pakistani currency fairly stable. So the question here is whether the fourth quarter margins of Systems would be maintained at 29%, which was seen in third quarter or there are some challenges there?

I think, of course, there is -- I don't think so oil prices or anything has affected Middle East. You can see the Dubai market is growing like anything from real estate to anything. So these things have so far not affected the region that yet. I have not seen it. We have not seen any slowdown. So currency, yes, I think everybody knows whoever has joined this call, 30 months from the same number, of course, put a pressure on the company, all the exporters, not systems only that if the currency starts and the inflation goes -- keep going up and salaries keep going up. So there is definitely some pressure, but you have seen the results that we are trying our best to optimize whatever we can, and we are. And I think your guess is as good as my guess that I don't know until when we can hold it to the same level. But of course, we have now 90% dollar-based business. So of course, if currency appreciates or stuck at some one point for longer duration, it definitely affects the margins. There is no rocket science to figure out that. But how long, I don't know. But I think, of course, it will help. If it devalues a little bit, even not much, it will definitely help. But when I have no answer for that.

Okay. So I think Mr. Sandeep has 3 questions related to Confiz. One is whether the architecture looks like Microsoft based? And secondly, is there any overlap in terms of your clients and Confiz client? And is there any -- who are the top 5 clients of Confiz? And is the concentration very high for these clients? If you can give some color on these?

Yes, architecturally, they are largely like top Microsoft partner. So most of the business is around as a principle, Microsoft, but they do a lot of bespoke and Data AI and other stuff as well. So it's not like -- but principle-wise, yes, he's right that it's largely Microsoft, like we do SAP and Salesforce and other things, they are just very focused, which is good because Microsoft is growing. Microsoft AI is growing, Microsoft data centers are opening everywhere. So it's definitely -- it's a plus for us that it will further strengthening our position in the Microsoft ecosystem. So that is right. From the client perspective, since we are not directly operating in U.S. and Europe, so there is no overlap or slight overlap, which is not even material to report. And the third thing that you have asked about their client concentration. On the concentration side, not like that. It's very diversified. But of course, there are a few top 5 customers who, like in our case, contribute the most of the revenue in that case, the same things, but not a huge concentration risk.

Okay. So another question is post Confiz takeover or merger, what sort of revenue growth you see for the first 12 months? And after this acquisition, what are your plans for 2026? Are you planning for more acquisition or you will give a pause?

The first is, of course, I have given you the rough percentage so you can figure out our organic plus inorganic growth numbers that what you guys can estimate, all of the analysts. So that is one. The second is, of course, there is nothing enough in a growth mindset. So nothing will be enough for us. So we will not be settled for anything whenever there will be an opportunity, which is in the sweet spot for inorganic growth, Pakistan or globally, we are on hunt and but we don't want to be like -- we are not in rush, but we are on hunt of the good treasure, right? So once we find that treasure, we will definitely go aggressive and close whether it is a small, medium, large, that doesn't matter. If it can add value and it can expedite our journey in -- especially in U.K. and America, we will not hesitate to take that bet because it will definitely help. Now as I said, we have set the foundation. Our base is set. We are not big. We are not too small. We have some basement ready or foundation ready. Now we need to really build upon it. We have the currency as well to do these transactions, which you can see that it's an equity swap deal where a company is not putting any cash. So we have a currency to negotiate. We have currency to discuss. So at least in the deal making, people are not questioning about our valuation. We are questioning and discussing about their valuation. So it's giving us a huge currency advantage. So this is the beauty of this M&A and inorganic growth will definitely consolidate Pakistan ecosystem, the talent ecosystem, the leadership ecosystem and also abroad as well. We will not be shy away to take bets to use some of our cash, free cash flow to acquire companies. If it gives a strategic fit, market penetration, so we are very careful on those. Of course, it's -- nobody has a crystal ball that everything is out of the park, but that's our try. That's our approach that how everything can be out of park and we can keep growing exponentially and hyper growth mode continues for systems.

Okay. So Imad Javed is asking, is there any risk with the AI developing in U.S.? Or do you have any threats with this AI thing that's happening? Or do you think that it will be -- have no effect on systems?

To be honest, risk and threats are part of the business, right? If you don't have risk and threats, then you will be just very calm and quiet and you don't -- will not be challenged. So -- but risk and threats to those who don't accept that change, right? If you are accepting that this AI is a game changer and it creates a lot of opportunities instead of thinking it a negative side, if you think it a positive side, it's a huge opportunity for all of us, not just IT companies, but all of you who join everyone in the world. So whoever is not going to accept that as an opportunity and think that it is a bubble, and it will be burst. Yes, you can be as negative and as cynical as you can be, but then you will definitely -- should be threat to disrupt and threat to out of business soon. But we have accepted this challenge. We are working aggressively on it. We are working positively on it. And I'm very, very bullish that it is going to be a big opportunity, not a small opportunity if we nail it, right? Of course, there are risks. If you don't nail it or you try too aggressive and -- but that's a part of the business. But so far, I think I can't see that big opportunity comes in at least my life again. So this is a great opportunity for us to nail it.

Okay. There are a couple of questions related to the Confiz management and staff. So any idea on their team members and especially the senior management of Confiz?

They're all part of the deal, and they all will join from a running operational leadership, they will all be part of this deal. They are all shareholder in the Confiz. So they will be the shareholder of systems as well. So that is a huge plus. That I said, like the stock like employee ownership is the essence, right? So they have the employee ownership. So all the key management and the leadership, there are hundreds of people who have the options in Confiz. These options is, of course, converted to shares in Confiz and these shares will be converted to system shares, right? So it is only further strengthening our positioning that employees join and employees have a skin in the game or leadership have a skin in the game and stakes in the company. So if systems keep growing, their valuation keeps growing. So they are not taking exit. That's a belief. Like 100% equity swap means there's a belief of the leadership and the founder that we are not exiting because we know that our valuation is not enough to exit. And if we keep doing and we are not getting -- so we will work with systems and have a multiplier effect on their valuation. And of course, if our valuation goes, their valuation goes. So that's the beauty of the transaction that nobody has taken any exit, right? So everybody is 100% involved with the business, and that gives us more confidence in the service delivery business that if employees are joining and they have the skin in the game, I think it gives a huge momentum. And it gives me a confidence as well that they have a belief in our purpose and vision, and they are 100% aligned to it. So they're willing to take a risk. And like with their 20 years effort, they are giving it to us together, okay, now combined, we can grow it faster. So that's a huge plus.

So I think similar questions on margins coming once again, but you have clarified, but I just wanted to ask about the gross margin and EBITDA margin of Confiz, are they in line with the Systems or they better than Systems?

I think generally aligned with the industry, I would say. I would not compare the Systems or anything, but generally, it's aligned to the growth companies in the industry because they are also a hypergrowth company. They are also growing and investing into the expensive market. So generally, they are in that range, which any growth companies would have.

Understood. So related to BAT transaction, again, if you can share how much revenue is BAT expected to contribute to the overall revenues of the company?

I think these numbers are a little bit of -- because we -- in this transaction, at least the BAT transaction, we have some NDAs to share, but I think you guys know the number of people. It's easy to do the math because that's common public information. So I think, yes, but it's definitely good -- it's a profit -- it's like -- it's a good top line business and of course, bottom line business as well. That's what I would say.

Understood. Okay. So on a different note, I think there is a question on the recent development where the government has shown interest in crypto-related ecosystem. So whether system will play any role or is there any potential for systems to play any role in this crypto ecosystem?

So far, to be honest, we are not the experts in this crypto ecosystem. So we may be the beneficiary. We may involve -- be involved later on, but not so far. We don't have any practice for cryptocurrency right now. So far, we are not taking any part of it so far. Future will depend on the opportunity.

Understood. So we are just waiting for a few other questions. Yes. So there is another question that says that system is generating significant cash flow every year. Is the company planning -- what's the company planning to do more acquisitions or share buybacks or dividends? So what do you think is the effective use of these strong cash flows that system is generating?

Of course, if you look at our dividend history, we are in the range of 20% to 25% of dividend. That's what we have been giving for the last 10-plus years, even before public as well, that was our history, and you guys have the history of public as well. So that utilization, we hope that it continues. We have no desire to change that as of now. So other than that, we are in hypergrowth mode. So we -- when we open the new market, when we go to the new vertical, when we do the new horizontal, all requires cash. And when you want to grow ambitious, your higher growth ambitions, that all require working capital and the cash to keep growing because we don't -- otherwise, we have to borrow, right, for hyper growth, right? So this cash will be utilized for the growth. And of course, for acquisitions as well, right? Acquisition is also a growth. Organic growth or inorganic growth. So I think our growth ambitions are higher. And the growth company is, of course, share buyback is one thing that you can do, but I think we can do and give more value to our shareholders when we keep growing growth at a pace which we want to continue to grow because once you grow, then, of course, your margins get better, your utilization gets better, your multiplier effects get better, you have -- so scale makes you bigger and better. So as you keep scaling the business through that cash, I think that's the best use of the cash in my humble view. Of course, different people have different desires. But in a growth company, that's the best utilization of the cash. Of course, shareholder return and then rest remain to go reinvest. That's how we have built. We have not been borrowing and like having huge debt in our balance sheet for the growth, we are self-sustained, and we generate enough cash, enough profits so we can keep growing and go to the next round and next round of growth. So we are funding our own growth and acquisitions through this cash flow, which is the best utilization in my humble opinion.

Okay. I think 2 questions. One related to your provisioning that you did in third quarter. Any idea, any color on what that was related to? And what's the...

Can you repeat your question? Third quarter you said...

There's a question that there was an impairment in third quarter. Can you just highlight what was that related to? And will it be repeating in this quarter?

It's -- we didn't have the very high impairments in third quarter either, right? Roohi... So small business as usual type of stuff a little bit.

Yes. This is the expected credit losses that we have booked on...

IFRS 9 receivable.

Yes.

We follow very strict guideline on IFRS 9. So of course, we take the provision in the books as per the model. And essentially, it's not the loss, actual loss. We recover most of it -- but not -- let's say, for example, if the recovery is more than 6 months, then we take and build some provision into the books. So if -- so I think this is a conservative approach versus an aggressive approach on showing the better results and then taking a hit. We'd rather built in into those provisions and hope -- we don't want to write off anything, of course. So we really want to make sure that we get all the money. But sometimes in a business, you don't get certain things as well.

Understood sir. So that was more IFRS related. Okay. So Talha Javed has a question. Do you see blockchain as a revenue opportunity or only as a technology trend? And what concrete use you see in this?

Honestly speaking, like blockchain is as a horizontal or vertical. It's a great technology. But unfortunately, we have not seen it monetized in the revenue so far. Our clients are not super bullish or have millions of dollars of budget on blockchain. Yes, they have some budget for experimentation and doing some things. But so far, if you not Systems, but if you study any of the SIs, the big SIs in neighboring countries and the consulting shop, they don't highlight even blockchain revenue as one. They highlight AI as a revenue, but not blockchain as a revenue. So we of course, as we are in this space, like I would never say no to no that, of course, there is an opportunity if there is a demand. We have the base talent. We have the resources trained on that. We have done the experimentation. We have done the use cases. We have a few deployments, but not like a super like the pie, right? So -- but if there is a demand, we are ready for it, but we don't have the scale yet. But we are always looking for opportunities for the new things. If there is an opportunity, if somebody wants to sponsor, somebody wants to do it, we have enough risk appetite that we can deliver.

Understood. So you gave some hint on the number of staff that you plan to hire in your presentation. So what's the target for 2026? What do you see would be the workforce strength of the merged Systems, say, after a year by end of 2026? And are there any challenges as many people are still migrating to Middle East from Pakistan?

Honestly, I think it's a future guidance like, of course, if I give you the number of people, it's very easy to calculate the number of revenue and other stuff. But I think what I would generally give you the guideline, of course, we will want to continue our growth path. That's why we are doing all of this. And number two, I think attrition or turnover is getting better, like it was on a higher side. But due to the visa issues, it's not uncommon. Of course, a lot of people were going left, right and center, but now it's not that easy to go left, right and center. And KSA was hiring crazily. KSA public sector demand, if you have read our Director reports we have shared as well, it's tapered down as well. So there is a demand, but it's not crazy, right? So I think it's like if people were going at this pace, now people are going at this pace, right? So definitely, it's improved situation. So challenge were higher. Now challenge is manageable. So we are training people. We know that we can't stop everyone. If they've got a good opportunity, we normally say, thank you. And of course, if they want to make more money, if they are good. If they get a good opportunity, why not, right? So they will continue to leave. But I think largely, the senior leadership and leadership, we are able to retain. I'm grateful for my team because this is the key. So I honestly don't see a big challenge. Like it is a business-as-usual challenge, which is part of our business, right? We have to create the bench. We have to manage the bench and so on.

Understood. I think one question. There are many questions, but most of them are related to what we have asked. So anything on the taxation? I think right now, there is a tax benefit to the IT companies. What are your thoughts on this going forward, considering that Pakistan is facing challenges on the revenue collection?

I would say, I think IT industry is still in the buildup phase. It's not there yet. We have not even unleashed any untapped potential. So disrupting anything in that ecosystem will be very harmful because it's in IT, you can tax, but it's very hard to collect tax because -- and government knows about it because it's -- every company who is exporting, they have set up abroad, and they can set up their own transfer pricing, and it will be very tough to get what they wish to get. So I don't think so. It's very understood in the -- in my humble opinion again, it's very understood in the corridors that this we need to flourish this industry and this industry can take -- generate a lot of employment in the IT and the BPO space. And we have to -- if you are not giving any incentive like other sector used to get, at least don't touch it, right? That's the important message that our message is that at least don't -- if there is no more incentive, don't touch it right now, let this industry grow on itself and let's make this export bigger in the country because this is what our country needs at this time, employment and the dollars, right? So I would be like in my purview and the knowledge and interaction, I don't think so this is the right step, and we would never advise that. And hopefully, it will be listened, hopefully.

On the local businesses, you are trying to curtail low-margin loss-making Pakistani businesses. So what's update on that?

Yes. If you have seen last quarter -- if you have seen all 3 quarters quarter-over-quarter, you must have seen the improvement, and you will continue to see that improvement because as we are exiting from the loss-making contracts, most of them, we have exited a few of them are still left, which we will exit a few in this quarter and a few in the following quarters. So we will -- we -- from our planning and budgeting perspective, we don't see Pakistan as a loss-making unit anymore. Like earlier, my message always used to be, if you have attended my analyst briefing before that we use Pakistan as a training ground and it's fine to lose money and it's fine to make up money. But yes, we want to use a training ground, but not at the cost of profit anymore. So yes, we will continue to work aggressively on the margins, but not at loss anymore. So we really want to make sure that with this high pressure on the dollar and the currency, we can't afford any unit to lose money. Earlier, we had some breathing room when the currency was devaluing like crazy. So we had some room for experimentation. Now we have no room for experimentation at any unit, any price. We calculate every penny properly now.

So I think broadly, we have answered most of the questions. And as you mentioned, that the questions were more related to the recent acquisition. So thank you very much for updating the investors on the recent acquisition because we are getting so many queries. And I believe that you have answered most of the questions. So any final comments, Asif, you want to give before we close the session?

No, I'm really thankful for all -- sorry. Roohi, you want to say?

No, I was just saying maybe -- yes, there are some questions on our other geographies as well. So maybe we can -- in the closing comments, you can cover general business update in the other geographies.

Okay. Wonderful. So first of all, really thankful to all the shareholders and all the investors who have trusted in the management and the leadership and the company. We're really grateful and really thankful for your support and for the trust that we get. It gives us a lot of confidence to take more risks and take more calculated risk, I would say, and keep on the growth journey and the growth path. So thank you for that. Overall, business dynamics, is overall from Middle East is not slowing down for at least for oil price or whatever it is, at least UAE is not slowing down, and you guys could have -- whoever is doing property business must have known that already. It's not coming down. If it is stagnant, it's stagnant or a little bit up. Saudi has picked up very well in the last quarter. And as I was expecting, and we have written that in our notes as well, director notes, direct reports that Saudi quarter 4, we have seen the bounce back and everybody is saying in next year, it will be better than this year because a lot of investment that was stuck in the public sector from the cash flow perspective is getting better and released. And we have already seen there is a clear sign because we as a services company, we only measure through our backlog and the pipeline. These are the 2 parameters that we manage our business, and we are seeing a healthy uptick in both. So really excited about the region. Pakistan, as I said, domestic market is one of this -- like we want to -- we do not want to hyper grow that market. We want to grow with a decent but higher number of margin, right? Number on the top, bottom line needs to keep getting better. And overall, I think with this U.S. and U.K. largely, you're not -- some Europe as well, but U.S. and U.K. largely, it is giving us a lot of excitement, a lot of opportunities that we believe that will be the catalyst or pivot into our strategy and our growth trajectory. And I'm a people person. So seeing the talented people, talented leadership and adding those leadership, which I couldn't have hired otherwise, because, as you know, top leadership in any company, they are a shareholder of that company. They don't join you as an employee. I think that is the best business we can grow with those people. The business can come and go, but the people is the key, right? So getting that people and leadership and entrepreneurial spirit is the key because you don't train -- it is hard to train, it's hard. We don't have time. It takes a lot of time, right? So getting ready-made that foundation is huge. And similarly, at the BAT, we got the top-notch talent in the country. It's amazing talent. I can't sweat that. It is a great people that we have. Pakistan has great potential, great talent, I think, in the world, which is unnoticed, untapped, unbranded. So we, as a systems, we have now that platform to launch that talent and the leadership, which we are acquiring. And that's the purpose, and that's why companies are coming to us to join the workforce because individually, if they remain into like $5 million, $10 million, $20 million, $30 million, $40 million, $50 million bucket, they will not be able to grow what we can grow collectively. So I think there is a lot of hope and traction. And I believe what we -- Systems is leading the M&A wave, which was the -- if you heard me multiple times, this is not the culture in Pakistan. In our neighboring country, this is the culture. They do acquisition one, acquisition a month minimum, right? And they can do more. So how we can build that ecosystem that -- which others can do as well, not just systems, but because that will flourish not just IT companies, but other companies as well. So I think M&A culture is requires a lot of courage and especially in the services business and the people business where the egos are high, sentiments are high, how to do the cultural integration. And that's an excitement that gives us huge cruise bumps that how we can leverage and how we can have a multiplier effect. So talent and leadership is the key and the cultural integration, rest of the business, rest of the stuff happens if you believe in these 3 basic principles. So I'm really excited. That's what I can say. Rest is upon the performance and the delivery of the team and the leadership.

Thank you very much, Asif. Anything Roohi and Tahir, you want to add?

Yes. I think Asif has answered most of the questions. But still, if you guys have any questions, you can reach out to top line or to us directly at Investor Relations, and we will try to answer as many questions as you have.

Okay. Thank you once again, Mr. Asif, Roohi, Tahir and all the participants who are joining from different parts of the world. Thank you for joining this session, which was arranged on the recent acquisition. For any queries, as Tahir mentioned, please feel free to contact us or contact the company directly. So thank you, everybody, and have a very good day. Thank you.

Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you again.

Thank you.

Thank you.