Tele2 AB (publ) (TEL2B) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Tele2's Capital Markets Day. My name is Kjell Johnsen, and I am the CEO of Tele2. With me today are part of my team, and we're going to take you through an updated group strategy, and some of my team members will take you through updated strategies within their areas. We're hoping that today, we can take you through our thinking and our strategy in a deeper way than we can do on a regular quarterly call. And of course, we will do a Q&A at the end of the session. We're also hoping to outline once again to you the dividend story around Tele2, where we can turn a relatively modest amount of growth into a sustainable and growing dividend over the years. Let me start with something you've seen before. Tele2's vision is to be the smartest telco in the world. That is a very bold ambition. And we continue to strive for that ambition. Looking at the finer text here. Some of you who have been with us for many, many years will see that we have made an adjustment. We're talking about enabling a society of unlimited possibilities. And if you look around the world today as an individual, as a business, in the public sector, this industry plays an enormous part of enabling modern society. Try to think about COVID-19 without the industry where we are today and the solutions we have today, I think this industry, in many ways, have saved the world from a much worse impact of COVID-19. So enabling unlimited possibilities is crucial to us. What we've done, since you last time went through the strategy presentations with us, is to update our medium term ambition. We want to be the leading telco in the Nordics and Baltics. And by leading, I don't necessarily mean the biggest. We want to be leading with respect to certain proof points. One of them would be superior customer experience. The journey Tele2 has been on for quite some time is from being a bold challenger, and we want to preserve those genes, towards becoming a premium player, a very strong #2 player in the Swedish market and a market leader in some of our other markets. We want to continue having the highest shareholder return in this industry. We are giving a very good return this year and the plans that we develop and the model that we have with a very good cash generation and an efficient CapEx setup gives us the opportunity to have among the best shareholder returns in this industry. Nothing is going to happen without engaged employees. We have the roots of Tele2 as a challenger, we have the development over many years from nothing into a very strong business. The shareholder -- the employee engagement is crucial for us going forward, and we will speak to that later on also in Karin's presentation. Sustainability. The world has moved towards stakeholder values over time. Tele2 was ahead of the game by being the first climate-neutral telco in Sweden in 2018. We are now, since 2020, climate-neutral in all our operations. Sustainability is an area where we have come far, and there is much more to do. Everyone is moving in that industry. We want to be a leader in that movement. But it's all about growth, isn't it. We need to get back to a good growth momentum. We're going to start off our growth strategy. We're talking about how to get back to positive growth in Sweden. Samuel is going to take us through that. We spent a lot of work within our B2C area to define the future where we are both a premium and a mid-tier player in the Swedish market, and we continue to develop our Baltic assets. In our discussions with you, there's been a lot of talk about B2B and for very good reasons. We have worked very hard to upgrade our capabilities, to update our strategy. Stefan Trampus has come off to a good start. He will take us through some of the key highlights of the B2B business, where we are seeing interesting terms -- interesting signs of turnaround. And growth Baltics, what can I say? A great story. We are exercising good leadership in 2 other markets and a turnaround in the third. The numbers speak for themselves. A very solid performance. And what are the enablers that's going to take us there? Well, I talked about, the people and culture. And again, Karin will come back to that. The people and the culture are critical for us to get there. We will want to have employees who truly believe in our direction, and we want to be a part of making the best premium brand in the Swedish market and a leader in the Baltics. We want to have reliable connectivity. As we move premium, it becomes even more important. We are investing into our assets, whether that be 5G, Remote PHY or in other areas to make sure that our connectivity asset is at a level that also fits to where we want to go. We're well underway, and we have plans to make that happen. And when it comes to next-generation operations, we are, in a way, a little bit ahead of the curve. Our network cooperation through network mobility has given us a unique CapEx efficiency in the industry, which is very helpful to our dividend generation. So next-generation operations would be about being pragmatic about what we do ourselves, being pragmatic about what others can do for us and where we go with partnerships. We want to do what's right for this company in the longer term. Our balance sheet is strong. We can make our own choices, but we are very pragmatic in the approach. Yogesh will touch about some -- touch upon some of these issues. Of course, underpinning this all is the Tele2 Way, the way we generate energy in our organization. But let me talk a little bit more about dividend. I've touched upon it a few times. What we want to do now is to make sure we deliver low single-digit growth in end-user service revenue. That's kind of our midterm target. And we've said to you that we want to turn that into mid-single-digit underlying EBITDAaL. That's completely in line with our midterm ambition. Through the cost programs that we have detailed out to you, we are optimizing our business. So the growth in our top line and EBITDAaL then translates through the CapEx a unique setup we have to have very strong operating cash flow. And we have said to you and committed to a relevering, that means that our equity cash flow goes even further than that. So over time, what you have seen and what you should see going forward is a superior shareholder remuneration in a very sustainable model. Tele2's dividend is sustainable, and our objective is to keep growing it. Business-wise, 27th of April represented a big change in the history of Tele2. We merged 2 of the most well-known brands in Sweden, Tele2 and Comhem to 1. Our ambition is very clear. We want to make Tele2 into a premium brand. We think there are only at most 2 players in the Swedish market who can build a truly premium brand because we have mobile, we have broadband and, of course, we have a TV business. We have all the components to build a premium product. And that is a long-term direction for the group. Comviq is a fantastic story. Growing, and it's very digital in its approach, it really serves the market in an exceptional way. I can only say we want to make sure that this story continues developing in the same good way. Within B2B, you are used to hearing us talking about mobile and fixed. Here, we talk about SME, large and public. And I do that sometimes on our quarterly presentations. SME, of course, more volume-focused, closer to the consumer business. Good margins, volume-focused. Stefan, is now working hard to make sure that we increase our volumes and strengthen the position there, and he will touch upon that in his presentation. Within Large, it's more about securing and developing the ASPU, not being so focused on volume as we've been before, but more on value. That is also showing interesting potential already at this stage. Within Public, we have a different model for acquiring the business. So once you've signed the contract, it's often harder to upsell after signing. So we are more careful about the commitments we made there. So we could say we are a little bit more defensive in the public sector. We're not chasing everything that moves, for sure. But in Small, we have a clear portfolio. In Large, working on the ASPU. Public, a bit more defensive. Stefan will speak to this. Now Baltics. What can I say? Three player markets, very strong position in Lithuania, strong position in Latvia, Estonia is a position that we have turned around over the last couple of years. But clearly we are not the market leader there, but we're taking strong steps to develop those markets where we really can influence the direction, which is primarily, of course, in Lithuania as market leader, but also in Latvia. And what does it give in terms of results? Now look at these lines. The end-user service revenues in Lithuania, stellar performance. Latvia, excellent performance. And Estonia, third position, turning around, now contributing to the group overall. So the Baltics is, for us, a very strong story. The next level for us is, of course, to prepare for FMC. 5G is coming up. Spectrum auction will happen soon. We're ready to build the networks. We're ready to build a new core. We are ready to drive the mobile-centric approach going to the future. But we will also have our mind set on the medium-term in terms of what other components we need to build a strong and sustainable FMC story. So what are we going through here today? Well, we're talking about the consolidation of brands in Sweden. We have consolidated Tele2 and Comhem. And we have, of course, stepped out of the no-frills race to the bottom. The market needs more brand consolidation, not brand proliferation, and we are taking strategic leadership to make that happen. We want to continue the Comviq story. It's just a great story. And we are making sure that we are giving it the attention that it deserves. Very happy with the performance. We are investing for growth in broadband, both as a stand-alone product that is growing, but also in terms of -- for the medium-term, do that as a part of an FMC bundle. And of course, the investment we do in Remote PHY down the road gives us lower operating costs and lower CapEx. So we are preparing for the future. Yogesh will speak to that. And then a turnaround in Sweden B2B that you and rightfully so, have been waiting for. Well, the news is it is happening. We have a good story. We are much more precise in our approach to the market. I look forward to Stefan sharing his insights with you. And then, of course, continue the growth in the Baltics. We believe that there is room for growth in terms of the share of wallet and the development we see, and especially since we are able to execute leadership at least in 1.5 to 2 of those markets. The IT stack that we are now decommissioning throughout mostly next year is a natural part of merging Tele2 and Comhem. So first, we go to market. 27th of April was that big day. Now of course, over the next 18 months, we will decommission many of these old systems, upgrade the old ones. And that is, of course, a very important element when we come to the next point, which is to deliver at least SEK 1 billion in savings in run rate by the end of 2022. Decommissioning IT systems, saving OpEx and running a tighter ship and a more future-oriented ship is, of course, essential to deliver that SEK 1 billion in savings. But now it all starts with growth. Let's get back to Sweden, B2C and growth, and I look very much forward to introducing now our next speaker, which will be Samuel Skott.

Thank you, Kjell, and good morning, everyone. So let's talk about how we're going to build a growing B2C business. And there are key drivers of that, namely 3. The first one is us entering the next phase of convergence; the second one is our value-led connectivity strategy; and the third one, continuing to modernize our TV and Play business. But let's start with the convergence journey. In the first phase of this journey, just after the merger between Tele2 and Comhem, the focus has been on loyalizing, building loyalty in the overlapping customer base. You could argue that, that phase is close to done now as we reached 80% of penetration of FMC in that base. And we are seeing positive signs for it. We've given our customer benefits and in return, we see positive signs. We can clearly see lower churn in mobile. We can see lower churn in broadband and also slightly lower churn in TV. And both when it comes to product holdings and ASPU, we definitely see a much better performance in our FMC base than the other customer base. But this was the first phase. The second phase, this is actually where the big potential lies. And the fundament for this phase is a great quality, superior connectivity and great quality of service. And that will reach through our investments in modern technology and something that Yogesh will come back and talk to you about. Secondly, it is about building 1 unified customer experience. So a 1 web; 1 customer service; 1 invoice, if you like; 1 set of products and features. And thirdly, it's about us building a much better digital customer experience, but also a personalized one. And utilizing these 3 assets, we will tap into a much bigger potential, as you can see in this graph. Today, we reach almost 3 million households with our fixed services. Only 295,000 of those are today on FMC plans. And there are 2 big buckets of potential. The first one is 1.3 million households, where we have a relationship today, but which we can expand into an FMC and converged relationship. This is, of course, the first priority and the biggest priority of the next phase. But there is also a greenfield priority in 1.4 million households, where we have no relationship at all. And as Kjell talked about a month ago, we did and pass the first major milestone in this next phase when we combine Comhem and Tele2 into one brand, the new premium Tele2. This was, however, only the start of this journey. So the next phases and the big step is completing the IT transformation, getting all our customers into one and the same IT stack with improved digital interfaces and one coherent customer experience. And while when we're finished with that, we'll also get Boxer into this mix. So getting all of our DTT customers also into the new Tele2 brand and being able to take part of that full convergence customer experience. So if FMC and our next phase in convergence is the first pillar of growth, the second pillar is our value-led connectivity strategy. And underpinning all of this is, of course, the continuous growth in demand for our services. Something we see every day an increased usage of mobile data or an increased demand for higher speeds in broadband. And what we do to take care of that demand is investing in our networks, investing in our products and services and utilizing our more-for-more strategy. A strategy where we proactively upgrade our customers to the latest products to the latest services. And then on the back of that raises prices in our annual pricing cycle, something that now goes across all our products spanning from broadband TV and mobile. But our more-for-more strategy will also be supported by continued volume growth. I've talked about the next phase of FMC and the huge potential we have there to accelerate cross sales, it is also about continuing the growth story of Comviq. Comviq, which has a fantastic position in the market, loved by its customer and able to grow the postpaid base through that strength and the prepaid to postpaid migration without diluting price levels and with a very stable ASPU performance. And thirdly, continuing the broadband growth. With the rebranding of our broadband service, with investments into network and product capabilities, such as even better Wi-Fi performance, we can continue to grow that end of the broadband market. But we also have an opportunity, which we will address using Comviq also here in a growing mid-market segment that we clearly can see for broadband. So with a value-led connectivity strategy built on our more-for-more principle, but also supported by continued volume growth. And with that, we then go into the third pillar of growing our B2C business, namely continuing to modernize our TV and Play business. And let's start by taking a look at some of the trends we're seeing. From a market perspective, we know this is a changing market. It has been changing, and it will continue to change. But we have the scale and the strength and the tools to adapt with that change. And from market data, we clearly can see that SVOD is the thing growing. Streaming is the thing growing and the penetration and stacking is continuously increasing. But equally important is the fact that Pay-TV penetration is stable. So we're not seeing a cord-cutting scenario in Sweden. We're rather seeing a stacking scenario where people continuing to have their basic service and then add streaming services on top. Looking at our own data and our own customer base, we can see the same trends. We can see a very stable customer base on the cable and fiber TV set. And this is a great opportunity for us to continue to build relationship with these customers, modernize our products, but also a great opportunity in our FMC story here to also up and cross-sell on these customers. We have a declining base on Boxer in the DTT area, but that's due to the natural technical shift that we see and was always part of the calculations made when Comhem acquired Boxer in 2016, and the performance is as expected. And however, still with some decline in revenues, we are able to keep up margins in our TV and play business. And the reasons for that is threefold. One is that we have content deals where cost goes down with revenue. Secondly, we have a transmission cost set up in our DTT business, which also comes down with lower revenues. And thirdly, a big piece of the decline we see in revenue is related to our premium TV business, where we have much lower margins than in the packages we bundle ourselves. So those are the trends we're seeing. 2020 was a very eventful year in many ways for all of us, but also specifically for the TV business, of course. We came into that year on the back of a big conflict with TV4 and then in Q1, late Q1, the pandemic hit. And that meant basically all premium sports being gone in Q2 and a lot of volatility for the TV business. However, 2020 was not only filled with headwind for TV, it was actually also a year where we laid a lot of the groundwork for further modernization of our business. We executed on the digitalization of the basic tier, getting rid of the analog distribution, providing better quality to our customers, but also freeing up capacity for broadband services. We secured some important rights for our business. One of the things being the multiyear contract, which signed with TV4, which gives us the rights we need to modernize our business. And thirdly, we took a big step in terms of streaming, wherein we evolved our TV e-service Comhem Play into a VOD-centric service called Comhem Play+ and launched that to our customer base. And that has meant not only us giving a foothold in the streaming business, where we had a big uptake in our customer base, we can also see it generating much greater engagement in our digital platform and usage in our Comhem Play app has risen 80% since we launched Comhem Play+. And now as we're in 2021, we can also see clear signs of stabilization in the TV and Play business as the ASPU levels are starting to trend back towards pre-COVID levels. But what about the future then for TV? Well, first, we are very strong believers in our position and the aggregation business model. Both valid for linear, but also a valid position and business model in the streaming world, where we have the task and can provide 2 great things for our customers: one, utilizing our scale and bargaining power to bundle content to good prices for our customers; and secondly, provide all of that in 1 user interface, 1 interface where the customer can find all the relevant content it wants and needs from us. And modernizing our business based on changing consumer behaviors is nothing new to us. It started with TiVo. We launched that to cater for a linear viewing demand. We then later launched TV Hub, where we were able and are able to provide our customers with a more VOD-centric viewing and experience. And now lastly, last year, as I talked about, we launched Comhem Play+, a fully app-centric propositions. And with this, we actually have all the building blocks we need in order to continue on the modernization journey, a journey where we'll continue to develop the user interface to be intuitive, both from a linear and VOD-centric perspective and add important product features like cloud video recording. It is a modernization where we will introduce a new next-generation low-cost TV Hub, so we can go to an active migration strategy with our customers, improving their experience and thereby lowering churn in the existing customer base. And then, of course, also making use of the investment we've done in Comhem Play+, now starting to monetize that, but also adding a linear component to make that into a full entertainment propositions, which we can continue to monetize, but also continue to sell to our customers in mobile and broadband. So that's the B2C story. Those are the focus areas to continue and take the next phase of convergence to the value-led connectivity strategy, where our more-for-more principle is supported with volume growth and through continued modernization of TV and play. That's the story for B2C. Those are the key drivers, how we will build a growing B2C business. But now I would like to hand over to Stefan Trampus to talk to you about our B2B business.

Thank you, Samuel. And hello, everyone. It's great to be here. Today, I'm going to share some extracts of our B2B strategy, our new updated B2B strategy, our objectives. And last, but not least, I will share some signs of change that is happening and are supporting our strategic focus areas. Kjell mentioned that we want to be a recognized leader in Sweden, B2B and IoT. And of course, customer satisfaction and sustainability, employee engagement is key for B2B as well as for the rest of the group. But we have identified 4 important strategic focus areas that are going to be the cornerstones of our strategy, and you can see them here on the slide. And our objective is to achieve long-term profitable growth. Through this presentation, I will explain these strategic focus areas and the drivers that will support us reaching our goals. Let's start off with the first focus area. And let me acknowledge that we had challenges, both internal and external challenges during past recent years. But although we had these challenges, we've been able to retain strong capabilities and assets that we can build on. We can utilize both assets that we have in the B2B organization and the Tele2 group, and that is our first focus area. We have a strong market position in fixed, in mobile, in IoT. We have a full-service portfolio to address all segments of the market. We have a lot of network assets in mobile, in fixed. And after the merger of Comhem, we have greater fixed assets with a nationwide network. And that's something that Yogesh will cover a little bit more later. We also have strong capabilities and skills in regards to our personnel and employees and a lot of certificates, quality certificates, which are seen here on the picture as well. But we also have a strong customer base, a large customer base, customers that who have been with us for up to 30 years. And maybe that is the best proof point that we have the right capabilities in place. So to utilize the strengths and the assets that we have both in the B2B organization, but also the rest of the Tele2 group is our first focus area. Let's move on to the next area, which is focusing on being our customers' trusted digitalization and communication partner. And we're all aware of the society is transforming, changing all the time. And 1 big key driver in this change is digitalization. And that's driven by new technology that is emerging, new behavior expectations from our customers, from our customers' employees, or from our customers' customer, the society, et cetera. And there's lots of political ambitions also driving for sustainability, driving for a better life, driving for more competitiveness between municipalities or regions or even countries. That's driving this digitalization. And this is also impacting our customers' needs and the behaviors they have. And we're seeing these important needs that needs to be fulfilled among our customers: collaboration, productivity, workplace, agility, insights, sustainability, employee health. And we have the services and products to meet some of these needs. Of course, we can't do everything on our own. Our customers have other partners as well, but we can help them with many of these needs. And that's why it's so important for us to be our customers' trusted digitalization and a communication partner. But it's not just about the ambition or what we want to achieve, which this states. It's also about how we do it. And we know that our customers want reliable services, they want good value, they want support in changing their business and helping the business, they want easy access to the different touch points to us, but also to their services. And to meet this expectation, we have formulated how we should act in everything we do: in delivery, in support, self-service, sales, our products, et cetera. And that is that we want to deliver reliable premium services and be our customers-friendly expert. And I know that this really matters a lot for our customers. In last couple of weeks, I've been in meetings with our customers discussing their strategy, where they're headed? And discussing how our strategy looks like and what we can help them with on this journey? We also tested this strategy on our customers. And some of them say that, "Well, you are more than just a telecom provider. For us, you are a partner to help us develop our business." And also prospects or potential customers are acknowledging this. The other week, I talked to a customer who actually decided to move to Tele2. And the reason why they are going to move to Tele2 is not the price. They were not triggered to lower the cost because basically that they didn't get the attention they wanted from their existing provider in regards to support on their platforms. So this really means a lot for our customers, and that's why we're going to focus on it. But how can we then help our customers with these needs? Well, we have some examples on this slide. First of all, Workplace agility in a collaboration. Here, we have a customer, which is in a University, which we're helping them with this through a combination of our unified communications solutions together with Microsoft Teams. And I think many of you have learned what Teams can do, and we've engaged in it during the last year. Then we have digitalization and efficiency in the public area. Here, we are an example of municipality, which we're helping with a broad range of services in order to digitalize them, make them more efficient and save cost for them. Another example is Nordic Choice Hotels, which actually this morning, released a press release about. And in this case, we, together with the partner, Speeron, are going to deliver a private 5G network to do a pilot how we can change the way they work within the hotel, but not only how the personnel work and make them more efficient, I mean it could be putting up sensors to see if the soap is empty or if cleaning is needed, humidity, temperature, et cetera, those are the things that we can look at and help them with from an efficiency perspective. But it's also a new business model. They want to see how they can use the 5G network to deliver new services to the guest. So basically, 5G and private networks will support in the change of business model. Then we have the area of sustainability, security, simplicity. And just to mention one of this area around security is in this journey on digitalization, this, of course, creates opportunities and threats to actually go in and damage a customers' business through these digital tools. And we have one example that we helped in recent months, which had an ransomware attack. And in that case, they didn't update their services, and we needed to go in and help them throughout that process. And that is an opportunity for us in itself, but it was -- what it resulted in was actually that we upgraded all the security services in order to protect them. We can help them with firewalls, Internet access, secure Internet access, DDOS protection and other type of security services, which is very much needed going into this digital journey. The last area being productivity and automation. We both have logistics companies, manufacturing companies that have a lot of assets in their facilities moving around. And here, there's an opportunity to help them control those assets in order to create efficiency, but also to secure an environment that is secure for their employees. So we can address these needs with our services, with our portfolios, either by ourselves or together with our partners and meet these needs, and also, by that, extracting value. And I would say that we have the capabilities, but we also have the responsibility to participate in this digitalization as we are a key player in this ecosystem. Moving to the third area, which is segmented focused approach. Kjell touched upon this area or this slide a little bit. And I'm going to go into each of the segments to subscribe the ambition and the key drivers. But first of all, I just want to elaborate why this is so important for us. First of all, our customers in these different segments, they have different needs, different competencies, different complexity in their businesses. So the solutions to support their needs is very different. So that's reason #2 -- 1. Reason #2 is that we have different market positions in these segments. And thereby, we also have different market potential. And in order to extract the full potential of that value or that potential, we want to have a focused approach versus these segments. And the third thing being that we have different ways of targeting them. We have different ways of engaging with them, delivering our services. So these are the reasons why it's so important to have a multisegment approach. And if we look at the ambitions and drivers for each of these segments, let's start off with the small- and medium-sized customers. In this segment, we have a range of product, services, mainly focused on operator services, but also some security, device, unified communication solutions as well. And this segment stands for approximately 1/3 of our revenues. And looking at it from a revenue split perspective, you can see that, in this circle here, that is mainly focused on operating services, mobile and fixed. And this also gives us a high-margin profile on this segment. And the ambition here is to take back market share by delivering simplified packages and bundlings. And there's 2 -- or 3 main drivers for this. First of all, we want to drive for a turnaround trend in fixed. As I said, we have an asset, which is our fixed network, but we haven't utilized it to the full extent in this segment. We have a good coverage of fixed network, we have a good cost level, we're even going to do upgrades of our fiber network, which Yogesh will cover a little bit more later. And this is a big opportunity for us, which we haven't utilized in this segment. So that's something that we're going after. The second thing being that we have launched a simplified mobile portfolio, and many of you are aware of this in Q1. And we see that this is causing and creating good traction in the market. We're picking up in sales, we're decreasing churn. And to have this transparent portfolio is something we're going to pursue. The last thing being FMC opportunities. We see that we can address, both our existing customer base with fixed services, utilizing the fixed network, but we also see by combining these 2 areas, fixed and mobile, that we also can address a large portion of the market in regards to potential new customers. And we also see an opportunity in bundling hardware together with mobile services in order to develop offerings which have sustainability as a key ingredient. Next area is the private segment or the private large enterprise. And here, we want to focus on profitability by increasing high-margin sales and delivering 5G enterprise networks and mobile bundlings. In this segment, we have a much larger portfolio, as you can see here on the slide. And also this segment stands for 1/3 of our revenues and user service. And also here, we have a higher share of operator services, but we also have more solution services. And that leads to a profile, which, from a margin perspective, is a medium-margin profile. And in this segment, we think or see that our revenues are going to be stable over the coming period as we are going to focus on profitability. And how are we going to do that then? Well, we have several initiatives ongoing. We have changed our commission structure to drive against margin in an extent that we haven't done before. We have implemented new price guidelines in order to drive versus margins. We have enforced our capabilities and implement new tools during Q1 to pursue and drive more customer profitability in our large accounts. So those are the some of the things that we're doing in order to drive EBITDA growth. We also have the 5G enterprise network opportunities, and I touched upon them a little bit when I was talking about the need, so I won't go into them in more detail. And then we have IoT enablement. We have a large customer base in IoT, we have a large customer base in B2B, and we see the opportunity of cross-selling between these 2 segments. And after restructuring, combining these 2 units into 1, we see that we're actually getting traction among these 2 customer bases, and we're doing more and more deals in Sweden in regards to IoT. So the last segment then the Public segment, what are we going to do there? Well, here, we have a focus, as Kjell pointed out, to maintain and defend our Public segment. And we're going to carefully consider our bets going into new deals. But we're going to focus on keeping the customers that we have. And also here, we have a large full-service portfolio, the same that we have for the Private Large segment. But we have more solution revenues in this segment. And that is due to the nature of this business and how, what stakeholders, they are handling with this Public segment, basically. So based on this, we have a medium low margin profile in this segment. And -- but I should say that it's really important that we have these solutions revenues, both for the public and for the large private customers because these solution services are interlinked with our operator services, which also in the Public segment and in the Large Private segment creates and gives us a good margin. In this segment, we expect a decline over the coming periods. And our focus is stabilizing the mobile ASPU being the first driver here. And that is the same thing as for the profitability initiatives that we have to secure a commission structure that drives versus this and also the pricing guidelines will help us in this. But we also see that this digitalization that is happening is happening in the public sector as well. And we foresee that fixed revenues or fixed usage will move to mobile and mobile data, which will help us going forward on the mobile ASPU. Then we have growth engagement, and we see an opportunity, rather than going for new bets, to grow the engagement on our different services that we have in our full-service portfolio. And last, but not least, professional service opportunities. I mentioned the security area, where we helped one of our customers to handle a security breach. That is how we can go in with our experts to support with professional services. But here, we're talking about everything from design to installation, to delivery, basically helping our customers on this digitalization journey. But it's not just about driving growth. It's also about creating operational efficiency, operational excellence. And we have identified a couple of areas that you see on this slide: portfolio optimization, quality of service automation, simplication of future-proof IT system and data and analytics. I think they're quite self explainary, and I won't go into details of each of them, but I could mention the data and analytical side and say that in B2B, we are a bit behind. We have good capabilities in the group to address this area and that is something that we're going to utilize. I was talking about how we can utilize our growth efforts and capabilities and that's something we're going to do. And here, we talked about an opportunity that we can address in all kind of touch points. We're talking about delivering, prospecting, marketing, automation, in sales. This is going to be a great enabler for us going forward. And not just only delivering operational excellence, it's also going to deliver better customer experience, but also help us in driving sales. So what about then the financial objectives? And what are we striving for? Well, I said that we are striving for a profitable growth. And looking forward, we see that we're going to have a trend shift in our revenue development with a less decline this year than we had last year and then the stabilization of the revenues in 2022, and the drivers going forward for our revenues, you see here on the slide. And of course, we're going to have some headwind. We have some headwinds from legacy copper products that we are going to dismantle over the next 2 years. So that will cause some headwind. This selective approach in large accounts and public going for more profitability and selective approach on deals, of course, going to cause some headwind as well. But then we have some areas that will help us to grow our revenues going forward, which I'm certain of. First of all, we have the COVID unwind which will help us to engage in new deals, in new customers, in new areas. This COVID situation has really held our customers back a little bit. We have the FMC and the bundling opportunity that I was talking about. We have the 5G and IoT opportunity, that was also elaborating a little bit on. But we also have the ICT ecosystem and with digitalization happening, which is just in the beginning, we see new opportunities of helping our customers. But we're not going to do everything ourselves. We're going to partner up with other companies, as we've done with Nordic Choice Hotels and Speeron, but there's other partners that we're working on. And we're certain that driving digitalization and helping our customers collectively, we will drive businesses for our partners and our partners will drive businesses for us. From an EBITDA perspective, our ambition is to have a year-on-year single-digit growth going forward. But I promised also to share some signs of change that is happening in the business for the moment, supporting our strategic focus areas. And looking it at from a SME perspective, I talked -- said that we had a better sales development, better churn. We can now see that we have a good impact in regards to the churn development. From an IT perspective and optimization, we have efforts in regards to reduce our IT architect platforms. We have a similar situation as our consumer friends. So that's something that we're going to drive for, and Yogesh will touch upon a little bit more. We see that we also already have some improvements and found after announcing our big, large customer accounts that we will find revenues and cost reductions. We also have done efforts in regards to efficiency, optimization and the best proof point is that is actually that this leads to customer satisfaction as well. And one area that we've done this is data net access where we increased customer satisfaction from 39 to 81. And this not only improves efficiency, operational excellence, it increase also the satisfaction and also gives us more opportunities to drive growth. And then we have the Internet of Things where we have increased our revenues year-on-year with 25%, and we see that this will continue as well. And then last, but not least, we are starting to see the signs of implementing 5G. We are doing pilots with our customers. I mentioned Nordic Choice Hotels, but this is also an example that we have with about delivering food through self-autonomous robots delivering the food. And it's quite interesting to see that 5G is the enabler. The 5G technology is the enabler of new opportunities and new solutions, but it's also interesting to see that this actually drives new business models. But as I said, it's just in the beginning of this journey. So let's -- and with this takeaway slide, we now have an updated B2B strategy in place. We have an important role to play in digitalization and to be our customers' trusted digitalization and communication partner. Our focus areas are clear for us. The strategic direction and the goals, we know what to do to achieve those. And we will drive for returning to profitable growth and growth on top line as well. And we also already see that we have some change supporting both of these areas. With that, I end my presentation, and I'm happy to engage in the Q&A session later on to elaborate a little more if there's questions. And thank you, everyone, and then I hand over to Yogesh for the next presentation. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Stefan. Very nice to be here, happy and honored. I recently joined Tele2, and I have to say, extremely vibrant brand, great ambition to be the smartest telco in the world and also on top of that, a very forward-leaning culture. What impresses me, because I like to go deep, is when I go deep, it's very clear how many experts do we have, great architects and they are a cornerstone in this journey of our transformation of our uplift. So today, I'm going to present certain areas, strategic objectives, the direction and what we are doing, how we are doing it, and actually also take a step back to put the context in place given the context has evolved over time. We have been through a series of mergers, big ones; TDC, Comhem, in the recent past. That does create a landscape, which has a very good asset structure. If you look at the asset structure we have, 1.7 million households connected by our own infrastructure. And of course, then open RAN on top of that. We have frequency spectrum from 900 all the way to 3.5 and 700 and 800 as well. In many cases, especially 900 and 2.6, we have a differentiating spectrum than the rest. I think that helps us to create a much more modern technology stack on the mobile. We have advanced services, TV and IoT. And we do understand that with the mergers comes legacy and comes some complexity in the back end. And I'm going to run you through how do we address that in a systematic way. How do we really encourage the partnership we have, the network sharing agreements we have, the JVs we have and how do we think forward? Since I joined, early April, we have put network and IT departments together. We call that DCT, digital capabilities and technology. The reason for this name is to be purposeful. We are here to enable, enable the business what Samuel mentioned, what Stefan mentioned, how do we get to the front with grassroot analytics all the way? Hence, encouraging an end-to-end mindset. End-to-end is starting with the customer, a relentless customer focus. Today, the customer buys, pays, manages, renews or retires at times has to resolve the issues. How do we make sure that our focus is on the customer journey, and we encourage that with the data we have with us? And hence forth, when I talk about data, it is fully GDPR compliant; all regulations compliant; and, of course, with necessary consent. COVID has put a new dimension. Household, which was important before has become a center. And for us to provide that superior reliable connectivity, almost like water and electricity, sometimes even more important, given there is a need of the gigabyte uninterrupted flow in every household. For us, the way we want to address that and the way we are doing it, I've shown an example of Uppsala here where we narrow down where the issues are, and we proactively want to approach to the customers to solve their issues so they do not need to call us back. That will reduce their calls to us, proactively increase their experience, and for us, reduce the maintenance cost, too, which is very important for us. Operating model is a unique differentiation. Our CapEx efficiency is by far the best, and we aspire to keep at the same level to be ahead in the CapEx efficiency, not just by having a infrastructure, but continuously optimizing it, having strong network sharing agreement with our partners, having the most energy-efficient network, which we have today and also streamlining the complexity which we have due to the mergers and acquisition. To give you an example of streamlining, we have 3 backbone networks. We are going to streamline that into one. What does that mean? Increasing customer experience, reducing maintenance cost, reducing OpEx and actually increasing reliability and speed. On the mobile network, we will go from 2 JVs to 1, 2 networks to 1. And that also will yield a 1 technology stack with all the frequencies so that you can actually do reforming technology agnostic over time, that will lower down the cost too and improve the customer reliability and experience, improve coverage. IT stacks are 6. We are on the journey of making 2, 1 for the mass market, 1 for the solutions. And we will go to the deep of that, how we are designing it in a way that not only we do progress, but we actually make sure that it is apt and it is data-driven digital architecture for the future. So what exactly are we going to be doing? The direction which we have set for ourselves, the base for us is to have a reliable, superior quality and connectivity uninterrupted all the time. Enabling new revenues. Every telco wants to do that. And the way we look at it, opening up APIs on the north end, enabling data flow, data in motion from the data lakes in such a way that we can become real-time instant and much, much closer to what the customer and the new revenues are based on in this digital era. And we absolutely want to aspire to become the leading digital telco. Comviq has more than 2/3 of the transactions happening on the digital space today, which means we have a brand which is performing extremely well, and we are planning to uplift that, at the same time, reach that ambition so that the customer can manage everything on their own, and we can proactively, with the closed loop, manage the incidents in a better way. So I will go through the IT stack, then I will go through the fixed infrastructure and then through the rest of the points with mobile and core. On the IT stack, on the left side, you see there are 6 stacks. We have embarked on a journey where we designed the whole thing with a target architecture in mind. That target architecture is based on mass market and solutions because we have a lot of large enterprises, small and medium enterprises and B2B segments. We have channels, online shops and care focusing on online. Those are internally, the intellectual property belongs to us. We have CRM, where the intellectual property also belongs to us. While we have partnerships in the billing area, this allows us to be differential in our design and in our take to market. So the extent of FMC delivery, the extent of fixed mobile convergence, the extent of data in motion is much easier with this design. The extent of personalization and segmentation and actually yielding the end-to-end journey is going to be much easier possible because the data lakes below and our own IP with the very good cornerstone architecture and experts, we are able to do that. And we have launched Brand X, the new Tele2 brand, we used to call Brand X, new Tele2 brand, which is Tele2 and Com Hem put together, and it is phenomenal work which everyone has done in the team. Coming to the fixed infrastructure. It's an extremely deep topic, but I'll try to simplify. On the left side, you see there are a lot of red dots in that cables which are going. It's the physical cable network. We are moving that to a virtualized IP over ethernet network. What does that do? It removes the red points, which are the amplifiers, which are the splitters. It goes straight to the household, which means without touching the household, we are able to increase capacities. We've started that project, Remote PHY. At the same time, we are upgrading DOCSIS 3.1. At the same time, we are trying to make sure that on the frequency level also we are optimizing on the fixed infrastructure. That gives us a lower maintenance because the red dots disappear and the Sundsvall and Motala pilots have shown lesser complaints, lower cost, happier customers because they increase more speed, they call us less. And at the same time, the speeds are multifold increasing. It is called 10G. This is a term by all the cable operators. There's a nonprofit organization, Cable Labs, which has given this term, which means creating those new access highways, which are there based on the 10G framework from the 1G [ core ]. How do we industrialize that, mobilize that for the 1.7 million households? How do we mobilize that for the 22,000 landlords? We use the customer-centric approach, as I explained in the example of the reliability discussion as well. We automate because it's impossible to do it otherwise. And we also make sure that we have a P&L focused. And hence, we can take step by step in the right direction, keeping this in mind and be extremely data-driven. On the other pieces of the network, radio network, our ambition is to be the best mobile radio network with the lowest cost to produce a gigabyte. And we want to reduce that with more than 60% in the next 3 years. We on that journey, streamlining the radio network completely. On the core network, we are turning that to full IP core so that we can actually slice in the future and provide better services on the private networks as an opportunity. And as Stefan mentioned, how to look into IoT, how to look into new opportunities, being first in Sweden with the 5G, how do we expand that deeper and wider? While we think 5G, we equally think the mass, which is LTE and LTE advanced as well, so that we keep increasing speeds continuously. which is our JV, we have a plan to close down in full cooperation with our partner. The way we do it, I'll explain, we are moving from 3G, at the same time, we are increasing the voice over LTE. Today, our penetration is 70%. We aim to be 90% by end of this year. And the reason it matters is because the timing to set up a call reduces dramatically. It's like, if you would call on a WhatsApp, you'd get the same experience, if not better, with In my case, it's better. With the latest handsets, the experience is amazing. We have frequencies, as you can see on this chart, ranging from 700 all the way to 3.5. And the key frequencies, 900, 2,600, which are used; one for extending the coverage; second, for densifying the networks we plan to use that extremely smartly to remove duplication in such a way that we can stabilize and reduce the number of sites needed, which means a network of a higher capacity, larger coverage can be achieved, and that will give us not only a lower OpEx, but extremely high gigabit production efficiency. 15% of that close down is the plan to be achieved by end of this year, and we are on good track. With this modernizations, which we are on our way, the JV CapEx, we plan to reduce that by 18% over the next 3 years. We are planning to use the whole technology stack so that we can do refarming, fully agnostic of technologies and to switch between different technologies, at the same time, use the best features available the most modern on carrier aggregation and on antennas in such a way that we deliver the extreme speeds, lowest latency and with the fixed infrastructure, the household, which is extremely important, get served uninterrupted by the best gigabytes and the best speeds. CapEx is always on top of our mind. And it's the planning mindset we are instilling in ourselves. And that continuous planning mindset is that as traffic increases on fixed infrastructure, on mobile infrastructure, we are continuously monitoring that so that we can optimize ourselves in the best possible way. 3G traffic is actually reducing. And that gives us a great comfort that 3G is about voice transformation to VoLTE, as I explained before. All this work is only possible because we have a great team of experts. I've been deep in this, and we have great experts. We have great architects. And we have a mobilization which achieves all the difficult tasks which come as we are doing this transformation. But the focus of our main factor is going to be around grassroot analytics. How to put the data in motion, how to make sure that the network data, customer data and the retail and channel data, how can we make sure that we become the digital age, telco-enabling those grassroot analytics on an everyday basis. Remote working, which, due to pandemic, is a norm right now. The way we address that, we mobilize everyone. The physical meetings, which we call that big room planning, they have moved virtually. So whenever we go through a major sprint, we see 1,000 experts gathering together and making sure that everyone is super aligned on what they need to execute later in their pods and scrums. By that, we have a culture which is always engaged. Summarizing. We are trying extremely hard to make sure it is easy and simple for our customers. Full modernization, end-to-end and enabling grassroot analytics. I hope I could give you a little flavor of where we stand, what we are, how do we work, what we focus on. With that, I'll hand over to Mikael. Thank you.

Good morning, everyone. Stefan, Samuel and Yogesh have in their presentations explained how we will secure sustainable service revenue growth and reduce OpEx, which will both contribute to growth in underlying EBITDA. I will now take you through the next steps in our leverage cash flow model. And I will start by highlighting how our low capital intensity leads to strong cash conversion and ultimately also superior shareholder remuneration. The reason why Tele2 has a low capital intensity, and why we have been able to keep one of the lowest CapEx to sales ratios among European telcos is because of our network JVs in Sweden. And in the future, we will also have 2 JVs in the -- 2 of the Baltic countries. As we roll out 5G, our CapEx will, of course, increase in the next few years, in line with our midterm guidance. But given our setup, we are confident that we will have 1 of the most cost-efficient rollouts in Europe. While we ramp up CapEx on investments in our networks, we are, at the same time, reducing our steady-state CapEx across basically all CapEx categories. And that means that we'll come out on the other side of the 5G investment cycle with a lower run rate CapEx, all else equal. On the network side, Yogesh has explained, how our already efficient network JV setup will be even more efficient when we move our entire Swedish run mobile network into the mobility joint venture. In addition, when we upgrade to Remote PHY or 10G, that means that we will have lower maintenance cost also in our fixed network over time, both when it comes to CapEx and OpEx. Our IT CapEx will also come down significantly as we drastically reduce the number of IT systems that needs to be maintained, as Yogesh just explained. And also, our customer-driven CapEx will come down, when we move away from a CPE-based TV business model to a fully digitalized delivery model. All this means that once we are done with a broader rollout of 5G towards the end of 2023 in Sweden, our overall CapEx levels will, given the current structure and format of the Tele2 group, it will begin to go down to levels below what we saw before when we started the 5G rollout. And that will reduce in strong cash -- operating cash flow growth. As you can see on this slide, we already today have a business with a very good cash conversion. That means that once we achieve sustainable top line growth and further margin improvements through the business transformation program, we will outperform when it comes to growing cash flow. To summarize these slides, we are with our operating model and the factors I just described, we are confident that while operating cash flow, of course, will be muted in the first year of the peak 5G rollout. We will still be able to produce a lot of cash, and our operating cash flow should, over time, grow faster than underlying EBITDA. Strong growth in operating cash flow means even stronger growth in equity free cash flow as we have no significant cash outflows in the coming years. After the spectrum auction in Sweden in Q1 this year, we have no significant spectrum payments in the years to come. If you look at working capital and taxes, we have very firm predictability there as well. And our debt financing is at attractive interest levels, and we have no need for any significant M&A. As our equity free cash flow grows, so will also shareholder remuneration. Looking at our policy, it is to distribute at least 80% of equity free cash flow as an ordinary dividend, and we're also happy to distribute up to 100% of equity free cash flow. In addition, we will continue to relever our balance sheet to remain with our leverage target range, 2.5x to 3x economic net debt to underlying EBITDAaL. And this means that 2.5x to 3x all growth in underlying EBITDAaL will be distributed to shareholders in addition to the ordinary dividend. In any given year, we will, therefore, distribute over 100% of equity free cash flow to our shareholders. On top of this model for shareholder distribution, tele2 also has a history of distributing cash to shareholders when we sell noncore assets. Our last noncore asset is, of course, our 25% stake in T-Mobile Netherlands. Tele2 has, in the Dutch market, gone from being a #4 weak mobile-only player with negative cash flow in 2018, to today, own 25% and stake in the #1 mobile operator with FMC capabilities, top line growth and even stronger cash flow growth. We look forward to crystallizing value for our shareholders as we will, over time, exit this market and will then distribute the cash to shareholders. Looking back a bit, Tele2 used to be a pan-European challenger, investing in many volatile markets, optimizing for growth rather than cash flow. Today, Tele2 is present only in 4 markets where we have strong market positions and predictable cash generation. As Tele2 has gone from volatility to stability and predictability, so has the shareholder remuneration. And we have been able to steadily increase our ordinary dividend along cash flows from 2018. This means that Tele2 is today an investment and a predictable and stable dividend payer. We are one of the highest yielding shares among our peers, and we aim to continue to grow our ordinary dividend along with cash flow. To summarize, there are 3 factors that create superior shareholder remuneration to Tele2. Firstly, strong cash conversion, which we achieved by translating low service revenue growth into strong cash flow growth; cost reduction through the business transformation program and low capital intensity. Secondly, we relever our growing underlying EBITDAaL at 2.5x to 3x and distribute the cash on top of our ordinary dividend. And thirdly, additional monetization of noncore assets over time. And with that, I would like to hand over to Karin, who will talk about the foundation for long-term sustainable cash flow growth that is sustainability and our people and culture.

Thank you, Mikael, and hello, everyone. I'm Karin Svensson, and I'm Head of People and Change. And let me start by briefly just gaskin a little bit about our sustainability work at Tele2. We have set an ambitious target to lead in sustainability. And already now, we have a number of achievements, and I'd like to highlight a few. As Kjell already mentioned, Tele2 in April 2020 became the first telco in the Nordics and Baltic to be climate-neutral in our own operations. And I'm also delighted that with last week, our very ambitious climate goals, were approved by the science-based target initiative. We've seen a steady increase and positive trend in our ESG rating results for several years in a row. And finally, as we are also seeing a number of investors and regulators asking us for more information, we are also now implementing, as one of the first telcos in the market where we operate, the recommendations of the task force of the climate-related financial disclosures. And we have also released the first report that is available on Tele2.com. But in order to make this topic justice, I encourage you to watch the prerecorded session that you can find on tele2.com, where our Head of Sustainability, will give you more details on our achievements to date and plans ahead. But to further a little bit about our strategy going forward in this topic, we have done a thorough analysis and with the input from more than 9,000 of our stakeholders and a materiality analysis, we have come to the conclusion on 4 focus areas. And for each of these areas, there is clear accountability in the group leadership team. We have set long-term targets and KPIs to measure results and our progress. New for this year is also that our short-term incentive program will be linked to sustainability performance for all managers and not only for the group leadership team members. With this new strategy, we are integrating our sustainability activities into the core of our business, and we're not only driving sustainability as a compliance-driven activity, but a business-driven and very important activity for all of our stakeholders being customers, shareholders and employees. And that brings me to another very important topic, our employees and our culture. Tele2 has gone through a number of changes over the last couple of years; and on top of that, the pandemic. Our new strategy and midterm ambition will place continuously high demands on our people to deliver on the strategy and great leadership that can align and engage our employees on this journey will be key. I'm happy to say that we are well under our way and are making great progress in the recruitment for a new CFO and Chief Commercial Officer; and obviously, 2 very key positions that we want to fill as quickly as possible. We are committed on our ambition to be a gender-balanced company in the end of 2023, and that goes also for the group leadership team. It will be a challenge, but we have set clear goals, and we have a 24-point strong plan to deliver on our ambition. With that said, diversity for Tele2 is obviously much broader than gender. We want to create a workplace that is diverse and inclusive, and that's something that we can be really proud of. We are, therefore, this year, rolling out a new program called Rewire for Inclusion that will educate all our employees and managers on how to create an inclusive work environment. And finally, it's very difficult to talk about Tele2 without talking about our culture, the Tele2 way. The Tele2 culture has enabled us to challenge the market for years. And the Tele2 culture also enabled us to deliver the merger synergies in record time. The Tele2 culture has also enabled us to very quickly respond to the challenges of the pandemic, and we are committed to now evolving our culture to remain our differentiator and our competitive advantage because the Tele2 culture will also enable us to deliver our strategy going forward. And with that, I would like to hand over to Kjell for a summary.

Thank you very much, Karin. Yes, that takes us to the presentations from my colleagues, and I think it has been very interesting to listen in to, and I hope it has been the same for you. It is now the time for me to try to summarize a few of the things we've been through here today. So let's start with the consolidation of brands in Sweden, a big moment for the Tele2's history, going from the challenger routes all the way being focused on being the premium brand of Sweden. So we're taking a lot of responsibility and strategic responsibility in the market by moving in this direction. We are going for brand consolidation, not brand proliferation. Comviq, continuing to deliver fantastically, a success story over many, many years. We're going to make sure that Comviq is given the attention it needs to continue flourishing. Invest in broadband. Broadband is the future. Broadband has been indispensable for us during COVID-19. Yogesh took us through how investment in broadband, both as a business opportunity for growth, but it is also a way for us to increase reliability, reduce OpEx and actually, in the longer term, reduce our CapEx. Then, of course, the turnaround of Sweden B2B. Stefan, well underway with his strategy and his implementation. And the objectives that we put in front of ourselves is to move towards stabilization this year and that in 2022, B2B will be a stable business in Tele2 for the first time in many years. Baltics, what a story, growth, leadership, it has all the ingredients. We're going to continue delivering on our market leadership, especially in 2 of these markets. And we're going to be prepared for the FMC when it comes. This is a story that has legs going well into the future. And then, of course, we talked about it. This industry moves forward. It's about simplification. It's about upgrading our systems. That story never ends. But for us, a big thing happens in '22 because then we take the consequence of the brand consolidation, Tele2, Com Hem. We are then also decommissioning many of our old systems. And that is essential for developing our business, but also cutting our costs. So that is a key part of taking us to the last point on this slide, which is to deliver on the SEK 1 billion of savings run rate end of 2022, which is clearly our objective. And then the overall strategy, we have formulated and presented to you today that we want to be the leading telco in the Nordics and the Baltics, not necessarily the biggest, we want to be leading, and we want to be leading through a superior customer experience. That is a tall order, needs investment, dedication, hard work, but with our premium approach in Sweden, this is the way we have to go, and that's the way we will go. We want to have a superior shareholder remuneration. We already are there. We have one of the best shareholder remunerations in this industry. We have one of the best shareholder remunerations on the Stockholm Stock Exchange. Mikael has taken us through in detail the story of how this is sustainable and why it will continue. Then, of course, people. Karin took us through the people dimension. The core of this company is about being a challenger, it's about making things happen, it's about looking for better ways. Now we're going to continue that also in a much more premium segment than before. And at the end of the day, sustainability is in everyone's lips for all the right reasons. Climate change and our ability to contribute to climate-neutral operations are super important. Sustainability is about more than that. We are a recognized leader within the markets where we operate. Karin took us through what we've done in terms of being climate neutral in Sweden 2018 and as a group as of April 2020. All of this together, with these proof points, is going to take us to the position of being the leading telco in the Nordic and the Baltics. So with that, I'd like to kind of end this part of the session. What we're going to do now is that we're going to invite you to show a little movie we have prepared for you. And then I hope that you will all be ready for the Q&A that we will be inviting you to in a few minutes when this movie is finished. But from this point on, thank you very much. [Presentation]

Welcome back. My name is Marcus Lindberg. I'm the Head of Investor Relations at Tele2. Now I'll leave the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] As you can see, we're, of course, sitting pretty closely to each other and, of course, we're aware that there's a pandemic going on. So I just want to let you know that we've all taken COVID tests and they all came back negative. So we're being safe, and we're, of course, taking that seriously. So let's get to the Q&A. So throughout today's presentation, the audience has been able to submit written questions. I have all of them here on this giant iPad. So I'm going to start by reading a few of those, and then we'll open up for questions from the phone lines. [Operator Instructions] So let's start with the first question. This one is for Stefan. How does the new B2B strategy compare with previous strategies? And in SME, can you win back market share without triggering a price war?

There were a couple of questions, it wasn't one, right? But first of all, I'll talk a little bit about the strategy then. One thing that we haven't done, which is part of the new strategy, which I had in my presentation, is that we're going to utilize the group assets in a different way. B2B has actually worked as a little bit of a solitary within the group and not utilized all the assets that we have. I mentioned business intelligence, analytics, as we have as a group function. We've talked about the network assets that we have after acquiring Com Hem. So there are different assets that we really haven't used. Then from a strategy perspective, what we have done is actually securing that we have all functions aboard. We worked end-to-end on the strategy, making sure that everyone is aligned within the group in regards to the B2B strategy. And we now have a clear road map -- a long-term road map, which we haven't had actually for the last couple of years. So we know what to do the closest 3 years from a product development, from a go-to-market perspective, from all kinds of aspects basically of the strategy. And let me just elaborate why we haven't had that in place. And that's basically -- and you know that there's been a lot of reorganizations and change -- leadership changes during years, and also a lot of actions in regards to mitigating shortfall on meeting budgets. So the organization has really been shortsighted in that sense. And with this new strategy, we have more of a long-term perspective. And we know what to do and execute on. And if the question is, will you have bumps in the road? Yes, we will have bumps in the road. But we know what the long-term target is, and we will be back on track quite fast. So that is more of a strategy perspective. Looking at it from SME perspective, then we have looked at all aspects. It's not just a product aspect. We're looking at how can we utilize the network in a better way. And we see that we haven't utilized the Com Hem network to deliver broadband and connectivity services. And that is actually something that we're doing right now. We are looking at the sales channels and how we can use them in a better way, and we will start utilizing the mass market channels that are focused on B2C. We have another approach on the product side. We have the go-to-market perspective, where we will use analytics in different ways. So there's many different aspects that we were going to address in order to have a new approach on the SME part. And then on the pricing perspective. We've been transparent on the pricing in the market. We said that we don't want to use BTL offers, campaign offers. We want to be transparent. I think it's -- that's a good way of being a friendly expert to our customers. And this have resulted in a good traction on sales and churn. But I think we've done it in a responsible way. We are way above the other operator in the market that has transferred pricing on mobile, if we look at our offerings. So I think we are taking the premium role, being responsible in that sense.

Thank you, Stefan. Okay. The next question, I'll hand to Kjell. So Deutsche Telekom announced that they're doing a strategic review of the T-Mobile Netherlands asset. What does that mean for Tele2? And does that change your perspective on the asset?

Well, we have presented our updated strategy -- group strategy today. And of course, we talk about being the leading telco in the Nordic and Baltic region. We are very happy that we have a tremendous asset in the Netherlands, where we own 25%. And Mikael took us through the development over the last few years, which is actually astounding, going from a very tough position to being a part owner of a very, very nice asset. But we are a Nordic and Baltic operator. So it's natural for us to focus on crystallizing maximum value in the Dutch assets, and then not be a long-term strategic owner in that market.

Thank you. The next question is for Samuel. So it's on the Tele2 Com Hem brand integration. So Com Hem is an extremely strong broadband brand. How are you building the broadband credibility in the Tele2 brand?

Yes. So very good question. I mean Com Hem was a very strong brand in the fixed area. We had a great working marketing and sales funnel for Com Hem. But of course, before the brand merger, we did a lot of research and tests, which show that Tele2 also had a great potential in broadband. And now a month after the launch, we can actually see that the marketing and sales funnel is intact. So that is a positive sign.

Great. Okay. Let's take some questions from the phone. So operator, can we please have the first question?

We have a first question from the line of Andrew Lee from Goldman Sachs.

It's Andrew here. Hope, you can all hear me. I had a question first on Swedish growth, which I guess investors have been struggling with for the last 3 years. You haven't delivered growth for 3 years. And outside of COVID, I wondered if you could just address what went wrong? And whatever those reasons are, why are you confident that those are anomalies and not structural? And then the second question was on CapEx and your cable network upgrade. What do you think the long-term requirement is here? And maybe you could assuage investor fears that it's just inevitable that you'll need to fiberize the network in the long-term and put at risk your lower CapEx intensity guidance post 5G?

Yes. Maybe I'll start with the first one, and maybe Samuel wants to add to it, and maybe then we go over Yogesh then. The reality is that there hasn't been overall growth in the Swedish market for a couple of years. One of the things that has characterized the market has been too much volume focused. I think if you go back in time, we have also at Tele2 being volume focused. In the old days, that was natural. Now the last couple of years, we have moved towards a more premium position. You see the launch of Tele2, Com Hem into one brand and a clear brand differentiation between Tele2 as premium and, of course, then with Comviq as a mid-tier brand. We are completely into making that kind of distinction in the market going forward. We are more value oriented. We take strategic leadership in the market by moving away from no frills. So Tele2 is playing the part of restoring growth to the Swedish market. And the B2C organization under Samuel's leadership have done a tremendous amount of work over the last few months to update our strategic road map and our approach to the market. And of course, we went through a lot of that today. But I am quite positive that when we get out of COVID, we now see a more clear market with potentially 2 premium players and 1 very mobile-only player and 1 that's a bit more in between. We can build strong positions for Tele2 as premium and continue the success of Comviq as a mid tier, leading to growth.

And then on the fixed network question, maybe, Yogesh?

Yes. I think we -- as I mentioned, fixed network, we are upgrading, but we are doing that, both customer-centric and P&L focused. How do we upgrade that? How do we make sure that our customers receive good quality? On the mobile side, we are streamlining the JVs, and that gives us a much, much better network in the future. And actually, that will result into a lower OpEx and lower CapEx in the future. So I hope you can see turning off legacy systems, streamlining network, upgrading methodically on the fixed infrastructure will yield fiber to that building, remove all the red points, which I showed in my presentation, which will help us to reduce OpEx and streamline CapEx as well.

Okay. Great. Let's do one more question from the phone lines. Operator?

The question...

Sorry, did you have a follow-up, Andrew?

Yes. The question was on, on mobile. It was on fixed and the potential need in the longer term to fiberize the network. How can you swage investor fears that you're not going to have to throw more cash of that network and the current upgrade cycle, it's more of a short-term fix?

Yes. And I think if you go one level deeper into that, by streamlining the JVs and we remove duplicated towers, we are able to have a mobile network. Connection to that, we are also using the broadband network we have today. So the backbone is going to be utilized much more efficiently, as I mentioned, 3:1, and I think that enables us to be ahead of that curve of demand, and hence, we would be more effective by design.

So what about the fixed network? Is -- I think the question is, is the cable network future-proof enough to deliver broadband? Or do we need to rip it out and build -- replace with fiber?

See, we are giving great speeds today. We are upgrading to fiber step-by-step as well. And in the HFC network, we have mentioned that the speeds are good today. So I don't think there is a huge risk of anything. But when you talk about backbone, they are basically on fiber today.

Okay. Great. Operator, can we have the next question, please?

We have the next question from the line of Stefan Gauffin from DNB.

Can you hear me?

Yes, yes.

Yes. So I have a question for Yogesh Malik. So you talked about site production and reducing duplicate towers. How many sites are you expected to -- or in percentage, how many sites will you reduce? And then the video also talked about the need for small cells. And obviously, this is the macro cell network. But can you talk a little bit on the cost side relating to the infrastructure on the mobile side with both the macro cells and the small cells?

Yes. So let's start with the percentage. I'll not go into the actual numbers. But from a percentage point of view, the streamlining would be around 20%, something like that. So in the order of 20%, so you can see that, that redesigning would mean 20% lesser sites. Number second, while we do the redesigning, we are expanding coverage in the rural areas with lower bands, and we are densifying the network in the urban areas. And I think together, and of course, then small cells will be application based. So I think the whole strategy is based on maximizing coverage, given we have a huge spectrum, how we can become more efficient and to my earlier point, how do we utilize the backbone, which is fiber to a core which is renovated as well. And so I think that's the way we are thinking on that streamlining of the full asset structure.

Does that answer your question, Stefan?

Okay. Yes. Yes. Could I also ask, it is a similar question to what was asked earlier, but for Stefan Trampus. So why haven't you utilized the fixed position earlier in the SME business? Or to put it differently, how would you succeed doing it right now?

Yes. I mean the easy answer is we haven't had the capabilities in regards to IT systems. This is very much linked to what Yogesh earlier talked about that we need to streamline our IT architecture. So that has hold us back actually. But in Q1, we actually launched fixed broadband on the Com Hem network for our mid and large and public customers. And we're starting utilizing the backbone and the agreements that we do with this 10G upgrade for the SME segment. So we're starting doing piloting on that, and we'll start using it eventually every region that we go about and deploy remote 5, we will be able to utilize it going forward. But the end goal is, of course, this one network that Yogesh talked about, then we will have the full flexibility and everything in line. But that's the reason.

Okay. Great. I'm going to take another written question here. This one is for Samuel. How will Tele2 compete when there's inevitably some heightened competition in the no-frills segment? What tools do you have now that Comviq is more positioned in the mid-market?

Yes. So I think the tool we have is -- I mean firstly, actually about the Tele2 brand and building that premium segment, I think there is a lot of potential building a premium segment that really attracts customers. That's one thing. The other thing, of course, is Comviq. We know Comviq is super strong from a brand perspective and from an offering perspective. And that we can use both to drive value, but also to drive volume. And if needed, Comviq can also do SIM-only campaigns and make sure that we cannot cover that end. But we are also taking leadership in the sense that we want to build a market that can grow and a value-driven market where we put quality first and that aspect first towards our customers.

Okay. One question here about sustainability, which I'll hand to Karin. How will you address your value chain emissions for the Scope 3 emissions?

Yes. And since we have come a long way in our own operations, obviously, our value chain is going to be next and very important for us to take a good look at. We will engage with our key suppliers and explain our ambitions and targets, and we will ask them to set targets. And we will then have processes in place to follow up that they are meeting our expectations. And ultimately, we will also place that into our partnership code of conduct to have emission reductions as part of our code of conduct.

Thank you. Okay. Let's take another question from the phone lines. Operator, please?

We have another question from the line of Siyi He from Citigroup.

We can hear you.

I have two, please. And the first thing is, it is quite interesting to you starting to talk about the potential cost benefits from the remote and the JV streamlining. Looking at the time frame, it looks some of the programs will complete post 2022. So my question is whether you can possibly give us some ideas of how do you see the potential cost saving -- the scale of the cost saving? And so help us think whether there could be a potential beyond the announced SEK 1 billion target? This is my first question. I will probably follow on the second one later.

I'd like to just start on the first question. So if you remember my presentation, we talked about the SEK 1 billion as the run rate end of 2022, which we are standing behind in fold. Some of the things that are brought up in your question will be more towards how we're going to run the company in the medium term. We are going to run the company with a 6-quarter outlook at any given time. And in that 6-quarter outlook, we'll build in consistently. Every quarter, we will update our plans for how we're going to optimize, cut costs or do things better in the market. This will be a live document, so to speak. So some of the things that you addressed in your question will be addressed also beyond the 2022, and the SEK 1 billion. This company will continue looking for initiatives for 2023 and '24. And when I'm retired in many years, we going to look for initiatives in 2035 also. That's the nature of this industry.

Okay. Yogesh, do you want to...

Okay...

The second question -- sorry, please.

Yes. No, it's -- as you can see, the streamlining and later, 6G is in progress. 5G is going to yield capacities, LTE advanced. So I would say we need to look at the gigabyte production. And we are extremely aspirational when we say more than 60% efficient there. We should look at the JV streamlining. And I think this, to Kjell's point, it's going to be a methodical and systematic work 6 quarters ahead. And to be longsighted, at the same time, be execution focused in the short sight and medium-term as well.

Okay. That's very clear. And my second question is really on the broadband ARPU. I think you showed in your presentation that excluding the group discounts, the broadband ARPU is actually growing by 3.5%, but you're reporting 1%. And I'm just -- if you can talk about what is the split between the group broadband revenue and the non-group broadband revenue? And on the group contracts remain tough if the market seems moving towards demand for higher speeds with higher price?

So if I start, and maybe Mikael can fill in with some details that I might not have in my head. But if we look to the Swedish broadband market, yes, there is a trend of group agreements, i.e., where a building comes together and buy broadband collectively as a group, that is something that we've seen for a long time. And this is, of course, something which is increasing in the Swedish market. But the increase is gradual. So it's happening over time and has not accelerated. So of course, it's a growing part of our business. But also in a lot of those contracts, to be honest, we have built in the mechanism for small yearly price increases. So also in the group agreement space, we are working more and more with the more-for-more principle. I don't know, Mikael, if you want to give any kind of details on the split?

Yes. I don't -- we don't give out the exact numbers, but I can say that if you go back some 5, 6 years, then this was -- the number of group agreements in the base was single digit. Today, it's definitely double digits. It's growing. But it's as Samuel says as well, it's a natural development on the entire market, and we will adapt to that and we can make price changes to both customer groups. So I would describe it as a natural development of the market, and we would still have the pricing opportunity in both of these types of contracts.

Okay. Let's take another call. Operator, please?

Next question is from the line of Ulrich Rathe from Jefferies.

Ulrich Rathe from Jefferies. 3 questions, one very short one. First one is on B2B growth. You seem to be saying the driver of that is essentially that the overall market will return to growth. Could you just outline your planning assumption for the guidance in terms of the 3 segments you highlighted, just so that we have a reference point for that outlook? And the second question is on B2C. You're pitching this very much as you're sort of taking the lead in transforming the market in the way the market works. What gives you the confidence that others will play along? Is it just that you think there's sort of a general alignment of interest in the industry, and therefore, everybody should play along? Or do you have any specific indications just analyzing your competitors that are sort of analytical reasons to expect them to play along with your program? And my last question, just a clarification. When you talk about bringing CapEx below 5G levels once you're done, that, of course, raises this sort of a churn of telecom's question for how long? Because you mentioned 6G yourself and in the equipment industry has its own revenue logic, of course. So there's all sort of the next big thing coming. So to guide now for this CapEx cycle being the one and then we come back to normal levels, that raises this question, what -- how do you see this sort of unfolding in the long term, in particular, 6G comes?

Okay. That was a bunch or questions. So let's -- maybe Stefan wants to start with the B2B question?

Yes. I'll start with the B2B one. And as I said in my presentation, we expect a trend shift in the revenues on -- for the full B2B in this year and to have a less decline than we had last year, and then to stabilize the revenues during 2022. And that is flattish, I would say. And then onwards after that, going to growth. And this is not just driven from a market perspective, and there's several different factors. And may be should elaborate a little bit more on the topics I brought up. And I just want to say that we don't share information in regards to the different segments. But the drivers that we see is that for once in the SME segment, we don't have a fair share of the market there. Our market position is too low compared to what we should have been if we've done things differently in the past and we see an opportunity, both on fixed and mobile with the offerings that we have there. And then in the public and large segment, we see a growth in new areas that I touched upon. We want to increase the engagement on the full-service portfolio. Not all our customers are actually buying everything from us. They can buy single part or a combination of other parts. So that's what the focus is in that segment. But we also have some drivers that's going forward, and that is all of this digitalization. We're seeing growth from an IoT perspective. We see a growth in security services linked to this. We see a growth and a spearhead with 5G private networks moving along. So there's different areas that we see that is driven by this digitalization that we are going to embrace and drive going forward.

And let me start on number two and maybe someone else can join in. Our approach, like we said, is very strategic. We are very clear about where we're going with Tele2. We are taking away -- going away from this brand proliferation. But going through the consolidation, we are upgrading completely our IT stacks. We are firm believers that in the Swedish market, there are 2 players that have the full suite: mobile, broadband, TV, and can put them together, mix and match in any way we like. And with an upgraded IT stack, we aim to be the leading telco also in this market. There are 2 players who can do that. There is one player that is very much a mobile-only player. And then there is one that there's somewhere in between. And it will be strategic logic that the 2 players can benefit a lot from a more-for-more strategy. Now of course, I don't know any more than you what each of the other players will be doing in actual life out there because I'm not supposed to know that. But we think we've been very clear. And what we see now in terms of the response also in B2B gives us confidence that the choice we've made is the right one. And from a pure strategic approach, it is the right approach.

Yes. And I think I can elaborate. If you look at 5G, it's a new platform. So the way we are designing, because everyone is anxious on the post 5G, I think the era will continue. But if you look into CapEx, the IT system simplification, the backbone simplification and streamlining, the JV streamlining is -- and if you can put them into perspective one more level deeper, you will see that the hump of the CapEx will come down. And the platform on 5G, which we are preparing with the equipment and the full technology stack is going to be future-proof. So at least that would give a bit more confidence on if you break into categories, how do we really think about 6 quarters ahead? And how do we plan to lay a foundation for multiple years ahead of us?

And then maybe, Mikael, on the implications for CapEx guidance and post 5G.

Yes. And I think the point we want to make today is that, as Yogesh has described, we will, through -- with the changes we are doing to the steady-state CapEx, both in terms of IT network and don't forget the customer equipment on the consumer side with the digitalized delivery model in TV. All this brings down CapEx to steady-state lower level than before. It's today too early to say any amount, what -- how to guide for CapEx post 5G? That will have to come back with later. But we have described the dynamics here.

We're talking about the run rate CapEx and then, of course, it's going to be 6G and all these upgrades, which will come on top and that you use that to drive growth. But all the CapEx we need to keep the lights on will come down because of these initiatives. Let's take another question from the phone lines. Operator, please?

We have another question from the line of Nick Lyall from SocGen.

I hope you can hear me?

Please go ahead.

Sorry about that. I hope you can hear me now. You've not mentioned anything on infrastructure sharing, expansion or monetization. So should we conclude that you've looked into that and you've concluded that it's not needed? And then the second one, maybe for Samuel. Do you need to defend yourself against the bundled content push from Tele2 in the second half, Samuel. Is there maybe anything you could tell us about how you prepare for that?

Well, the first one. No, you should not conclude like that. We -- like I said in my presentation, we are looking at the next-generation operating model. We are looking into those questions as well. We are very pragmatic in our approach. If we see that there's a great opportunity to do different ways of structuring our infrastructure, we're open for that. The analysis will give the result. We -- our balance sheet does not require that we do it. It needs to be the right thing for us also in the future, not only to be heroes for a year, that is fundamental to us. But we have not concluded this. We're still doing work around this area.

Yes. And then to the TV question. I mean yes, we are seeing Telia being more active and you can aggressive in the TV space, and especially when it comes to around sports. And I mean sports fantastic, it engages, it makes a lot of sound, attracts interest. But it's also quite costly, both for the customer and for the operator. And let's remember, it's a very specific segment that wants to and can afford paying several, several hundred crowns for premium sports packages. So what we've seen so far -- I mean, on the margin, of course, it affects us, but it's not a huge thing altering our business. And the business case has been and continues to be very negative for us going into big kind of content acquisitions in sports. And if you're talking specifically about the Champions League, it's a great right, but it's not the right that changes the dynamics in the Swedish TV market.

And it's not something that clashes a bit with your reference pushes at all, Samuel. There's not lots of sports, Champions League loving customers who sort of reconsider Tele2 decision because Telia turns up with the Champions League. Is that something you've taken into account, obviously?

I mean, of course, there will be some. And of course, if you have the right, you can utilize it for your own customer base. But I'm confident that it will not change the dynamics in the market. And let's not forget, for all other sports rights, we have great partnerships with the content providers, selling it as a premium service through a rev share model. And actually before making our last deal with Discovery, we didn't have Allsvenskan for a while. Didn't make that much of an impact to our business, to be honest. Nothing you could see and heard anything we could see either to be very frank. So no, I don't see that as a big thing. It is a thing, but it's not a big thing.

Okay. Next question, please, operator.

The next question came from the line of Adam Fox-Rumley from HSBC.

Thank you for the very interesting presentation this morning. I had a couple of questions. Firstly, on the B2B presentation and your market approach there. Stefan gave an interesting example of a customer looking for more retention and support. So my question is, how do you ensure that if your target is to grow volumes, you can also scale the support function to continue to provide that service? Is that something that's difficult? Secondly, I'd be interested to hear how you define the boundary between what's done by Tele2 and what's done by partners? And if that's a case of bringing any incremental capability into the group? And then finally, if I can, on the consumer market. You mentioned there was a growing mid-market segment, Comviq, conserve in the broadband space. And I just wondered if you had any thoughts about the risk of cannibalization there?

Stefan?

Yes. So let me start on the B2B question then. And basically giving our customers' attention is part of the whole operations, the whole B2B operations. And as part of the strategy that we have developed, we also have developed a customer experience strategy on how we want to interact with our customers, what kind of -- and throughout the life cycle, basically, from initiating contact with the customers to building and saying for well to customers as well in the future. So we looked at what the different needs are. We look at what they want. We have looked at our key capabilities and what we need to deliver in the whole of that value chain. And we have a lot of different processes, initiatives going on, working on end-to-end and not just within B2B, but also in regards to our technology and an IT department to really do this an end-to-end perspective. So we're focusing on bringing in this customer experience in our process. We're changing that. And this example that I had on the data net access, moving from low customer satisfaction to high satisfaction is very much in regards to changing the approach to our customers, all from delivery to sales. I didn't mention that either, but we have a similar development in our IoT business where we have done service. We looked at what the customers want and changed our way of our processes. We changed the way we have the attention in regards to our sales people to our customers. And we see a big improvement in customer satisfaction. So we're starting the journey. We see the signs. We have a clear path on what we need to do from both operational excellence, efficiency and customer experience perspective.

Then Samuel?

Yes. So on the mid market segment. Yes, of course, there is a risk of cannibalization. But I think there are several things we will do to manage that, both us, but also from a structure perspective. If we start with a structure perspective, a lot of this growth comes from the open networks. And there, you need to pay a fee to the network owner, everyone does that. And that kind of puts a natural floor to the pricing environment. Secondly, there are networks where we're not present and might not be present with the Tele2 brand, but we can be present with the Comviq brand, and then there is no risk. And then internally, I mean this is in our control. We have many years' experience of operating a multi-brand environment. And with the FMC strategy and even better capabilities in terms of data, we will be able to manage this. I'm quite sure.

Okay. Great. I'm going to take a written question here. This one is for Yogesh. Can you please explain your strategy for open RAN? Some operators seem to be indicating this is their preferred route for driving future efficiency. And then a second question, what do you intend to do with the towers in SUNAB?

Yes. So let me start with the second. I think streamlining, I've explained. So it's very clear that we are making the network more location efficient as well. So SUNAB, with our partner, we have agreed the design of the future, and we are just executing on that, and we are on track. So I think that's on SUNAB. When it comes to open RAN. Just for everyone to have the same baseline, it's about disintegrating hardware and software and have multiple suppliers in the software and have a hardware, which is agnostic to that. It's a great architecture as well, but it is not yet that mature. So we are full eyes on it. Our partners are a part of the open RAN alliance. But right now, for us, streamlining and making sure that we get the best network and the best gigabit production and be open-minded to that, that is our strategy going forward.

Great. And then another one for Samuel. In your FMC strategy, do you have a target penetration rate for the 1.3 million households that you outlined?

I mean of course, we have ambitions on where we want to go with FMC, but we don't have a specific penetration that we're after. And the reason for that is that we talked about before, this is a value-led strategy, where we want to add value and benefits to our customers and through that get penetration. It's not a discounting game where as much penetration as possible is what we're after. So that's why we're not talking about penetration as such, but rather about what we want to do to provide value to our customers, and thereby able to extract value ourselves.

Thank you. Okay. Let's do another question from the phones. Operator, please?

We have the next question from the line of Stephen Malcolm from Redburn.

It's Steve Malcolm from redburn. Thanks guys for the presentation this Morning. Very interesting. I just wanted to come back to B2B and probably questions for Kjell and Stefan. I guess it's just what you're going to say. Perception is there's not that much as particularly differentiated in what you're trying to do against your competitors. So I guess are you telling us that you think the sort of overall trends you're seeing in digitization, security, cloud, all those things, are enough to drive market growth, and that will help your recovery? And do you -- when you look at B2B, you've made some hard decisions in the consumer side by walking away from no frills. Have you considered that it may not be in your best interest, for instance, to play in the public sector space where the margins are lower and maybe your competitors aren't quite so focused on the bottom line as you are, and maybe that takes away from the opportunity you have in areas like SME? So what I'm trying to ask is if things don't go to plan, would you consider more radical action there and possibly look at partnerships in areas of B2B where it makes sense and get out or make a sort of front-line contractor?

Yes. Let me start on that one. First of all, I think that it is about much more than only the differentiation into the different segments. Where we've started here is a tremendous amount of work by Stefan and the team to clarify their strategy. And of course, they've started also changing the incentive structure. An incentive structure that is very much driven by volume will not be focused on value. That's as simple as that. We have moved away from that. We're implementing completely different structures. So now when we speak to clients in the large segment, we have a different approach to that conversation. In SME, we have a different approach because we've simplified and made it much more clear. You can see -- what you see is what you get is clear for everyone. And then we see that we're still able to extract the premium because we simply have a better service than the one that sells at a discount to us. And then we try to show the different segments in the sense that in the public segment, there are limitations in terms of your upselling opportunity, there may be complexities that you don't necessarily get that much paid for, then we'd rather spend more of our energy on SME and on large. Where there is still a very good margin picture, you can get very good contracts that creates cash flows and value for us. So when forced to choose, of course, we want to spend more energy in the areas where we generate margins and cash flows. But we are taking a more defensive approach in those areas where that is harder to come by. And we will talk about this probably every quarter going forward. How is it going in B2B? We will revisit that question. And of course, we're going to sit and have a Capital Markets Day in 1 year or in 2 years, we will see how this has played out. But I think now with the hard work that the people have done, we are in a much better position than we were only half a year ago. Stefan, I don't know if you want to add something?

No, I think very well put. You summarized it in a good way, the approach that we have.

Okay. Great. Would you consider exiting certain segments if the recovery doesn't go quite the way you hope it does?

I would say we are confident that we are able to keep good margins in all of these segments and the products that we do have. There are some product areas that we will address. I mentioned the copper shutdown that will happen. It's not a portfolio that we will live with for a long time. And we can be open with that because we are using Telia's copper network on that, and they've been open with it. But there are also some other product areas that we see that we can address. But they are linked to our customers and rather talk first to our customers about what product optimization that we will do, if needed.

Great. Operator, let's do another question from the phones, please.

Next question from the line of from Abhilash Mohapatra from Berenberg.

I've got 2 hopefully quick clarifications, please. Firstly, specifically on the cable and fiber TV revenues where you've talked about sort of stabilization being in sight. I guess you got sort of relatively easy quarters coming up due to COVID competitors. But beyond that, say, from Q2 2022 onwards, do you think we can see stable trends in cable and fiber TV revenues? And then the second small clarification was just around the B2B stabilization in 2022. Is that on a sort of full year basis? Or are we talking about stabilization at some point during the year?

So if we start with the TV question in cable and fiber. I mean we're definitely targeting stabilization. And as you said, we will be helped through easier comps in a couple of quarters. But we are also very clear about that we are not -- in TV and play, we were not in the revenue game for vanity. It's for sanity and it's about preserving a good gross margin profile, which we also showed we've been able to do. So even if we would mean kind of a low single-digit decline, that could be okay because we still think we can get the entire B2C business into growth and if that means we can have a healthy gross margin levels, that would be fine for us, but definitely towards stabilization.

And on the B2B, just like I said before, 2021 is the year where we are turning the trend. It is happening as we speak. We want to move from a pretty steep decline in 2020 towards stabilization, meaning that the top line for B2B will be negative in 2021, but it will be significantly less negative than in 2020. And then our ambition for 2020 is to stabilize, so that the full year will be more or less stable. At this stage, we cannot say exactly what that number is going to be, but I'm not sitting here saying that we're going to grow in 2022, but we're going to be somewhere around 0. I mean the stabilization for me means that we are not declining, like we did before. And in that sense, when we reach that level and the growth strategy in B2C comes into play, and we have our growth from the Baltics, Tele2 is back being a growth story. This is what we are working to make happen.

Okay. Let's take the final question before we close up. So operator, please, final question.

The next question came from the line of Peter Nielsen from ABG.

So I think we should close the Q&A session, and I'll leave it to Kjell for some final remarks.

Yes. And then, of course, I would like to thank the team for all the hard work that's gone into these preparations. We have discussed the strategy to present today to you multiple times in this team. We are spending an entire day every month, as a bare minimum, just to talk about strategy in the future beyond the management meetings that we run. Within the teams, whether that be in Stefan's team or Samuel's team or Yogesh's team, a lot of time has gone into preparing. We want to meet the market as a data-driven company based on facts and analysis and have clear strategies. And it was our intention and hope that we were able to relay that to you today. So what are we trying to accomplish here? We clearly want to get back to growth. We want to get back to growth in Sweden overall. And we have broken it down into B2C, B2B actions to take us there. When we reach growth in Sweden, we already have a very nicely growing asset in the Baltics. You combine that, you have a nice growth story. Then we have taken you to -- through the model whereby we take this growth with the cost optimizing initiatives we have, translate that into a great operating cash flow through the cash conversion that happens through our network cooperation. We have, over time, for many years, had one of the lowest CapEx to sales ratios in this industry, and that is set to continue throughout the cycle. So when you take that further through our relevering model, you get a fundamentally strong, sustainable story -- a dividend story with room for growth going into the future. That is quite unique actually to Tele2. Doing this going forward is going to happen through having our employees with us, a lot of engagement, and we're going to move towards this clearly defined targets of the premium position of Tele2 and the mid-tier position of Comviq for the future. And I'd like to also then, of course, highlight the importance of sustainability in our work. We've been early. We have embraced the Scandinavian values, which are about stakeholder perspective also. And we were the first climate neutral telecom company in Sweden, the first group in 2020 overall. We're very proud of that, and there is still a lot of work to be done. But okay, yes, this is where we are. This is with what we wanted to show you today. I'd like to thank you very much for taking the time to listen to us today. I was very hopeful that we would meet in Stockholm and be in the same room and have that kind of interaction, but better luck next time. And I hope that we will have a chance to get together quite soon when we all get that shot in our arm and feel safe about the future. Thank you once again for listening to us, and have a great day.